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View Full Version : A question I and many have pondered about the World Series...



Matt700wlw
10-25-2011, 02:29 PM
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/10/25/2512679/joe-buck-tim-mccarver-world-series-fox-sports

cinreds21
10-25-2011, 02:34 PM
I think I'm the only one that likes Joe Buck.

919191
10-25-2011, 02:43 PM
Buck and McCarver I have never liked. This post season, though, they aren't really annoying me. Maybe I am becoming numb to them

cumberlandreds
10-25-2011, 03:02 PM
I think I'm the only one that likes Joe Buck.


Are you his brother? ;) I never have liked him. Just a smart butt who thinks everything he says is cute and entertaining. He's even admitted in the past he doesn't like baseball. Why MLB kept him after saying that is beyond me? McCarver is no better. He is very pompous in everything he says. Just very annoying.

Rojo
10-25-2011, 03:44 PM
Buck sucks. Last night, the last strike got away from Napoli and the game ended with a highly unusual (as McCarver pointed out) underhand toss from catcher to first base. Joe Buck was in dead monotone, completely undercutting the small bit of drama that ended a great game.

Smash Nepotism!

marcshoe
10-25-2011, 03:53 PM
I used to dislike McCarver intensely. He seemed to think he was all-knowing and would present the simplest information as if he was making some deep pronouncement . Either he or I have mellowed, though, and I have sort of enjoyed him this year. Joe Buck, however, is a smarmy egoist.

mdccclxix
10-25-2011, 03:53 PM
Seriously. I think Thom would be much better than Buck.

savafan
10-25-2011, 05:34 PM
He's even admitted in the past he doesn't like baseball.

This rubbed me the wrong way when he first said it, and I've never been able to forgive him for it.

I agree with the others who've said that McCarver doesn't seem as bad this year though.

gilpdawg
10-25-2011, 05:41 PM
I don't think he likes sports much at all. Listen to his call of the helmet catch. No emotion whatsoever on one of the biggest plays on the biggest stage.

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Strikes Out Looking
10-25-2011, 05:43 PM
Some day in my lifetime, NBC will get baseball back and Bob Costas will do the play by play. And the former player won't be that second rate catcher McCarver.

savafan
10-25-2011, 05:51 PM
And the former player won't be that second rate catcher McCarver.

Second rate? McCarver came in 2nd in the 1967 NL MVP voting ahead of Clemente and Santo. I mean, not deservedly, but still... ;)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1967.shtml#NLmvp

camisadelgolf
10-25-2011, 05:54 PM
They need to get Rob Dibble in there.

savafan
10-25-2011, 05:57 PM
They need to get Rob Dibble in there.

No. I've spent time with Dibs, and I like him as a person, but no.

I'd actually rather listen to the Cowboy than McCarver though.

mbgrayson
10-25-2011, 06:07 PM
I haven't listened to much of the Series from these guys this year (Since I dislike them both). I have had my TV on, and been listening to the Texas radio announcers via GameDay. Not too bad that way, but of course audio and video are not in sync.

Raisor
10-25-2011, 07:54 PM
Some day in my lifetime, NBC will get baseball back and Bob Costas will do the play by play. And the former player won't be that second rate catcher McCarver.

Costas annoys me to no end.

MikeThierry
10-25-2011, 08:18 PM
I don't have a problem with Buck but I can't stand McCarver. McCarver points out the most obvious thing but makes it sound like as if he thought of it and is making some revolutionary point. I think his commentary makes Buck look even worse. If there was a different person in there besides McCarver, Buck would perform better. Heck, we see it in the NFL where Troy Aikman and him have an excellent broadcasting team. To me, the formula just doesn't work with McCarver in the booth.

It should also be noted that Buck is still suffering from a weird virus thing that affected his voice. I was listening to a local interview with Buck and he stated that the virus actually disabled one of his vocal chords. That is why his broadcasts have seemed less exciting this year than in previous years.

Matt700wlw
10-25-2011, 08:41 PM
It should also be noted that Buck is still suffering from a weird virus thing that affected his voice. I was listening to a local interview with Buck and he stated that the virus actually disabled one of his vocal chords. That is why his broadcasts have seemed less exciting this year than in previous years.

They've sounded about normal to me.

Not surprised though, CARDINALS FAN.

MikeThierry
10-25-2011, 09:11 PM
They've sounded about normal to me.

Not surprised though, CARDINALS FAN.

What does my fandom of the Cardinals have to do with Joe Buck's viral issue that plagued him for the good majority of this year?

gilpdawg
10-25-2011, 11:06 PM
Buck sounds better than he did earlier this season. He sounded absolutely horrible earlier in the year, like his voice was totally shot.
And Mike, just a friendly tip. You might as well come to terms with the fact that you are going to get a lot of good natured razzing for being a Cards homer. You might as well not bother defending yourself any more, because I don't see it stopping. I hope you continue to post here, and don't get run off by it, because I like having an enemy perspective, but you can't expect to not get teased a little. I hope you realize that most of us enjoy your posts and
we are just busting chops.


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REDREAD
10-25-2011, 11:06 PM
I don't have a problem with Buck but I can't stand McCarver. McCarver points out the most obvious thing but makes it sound like as if he thought of it and is making some revolutionary point. .

Case in point.. last night I think the score was tied.. In any event, there's a guy on second, no outs, and Beltre is at the plate.. McCarver has this 5 minute monologue where he "figures out" that Beltre is probably not going to bunt.. Talk about over analyzing the obvious!

gilpdawg
10-25-2011, 11:11 PM
Case in point.. last night I think the score was tied.. In any event, there's a guy on second, no outs, and Beltre is at the plate.. McCarver has this 5 minute monologue where he "figures out" that Beltre is probably not going to bunt.. Talk about over analyzing the obvious!

Yeah, he needs to hang it up. I actually didn't mind him way back, like, the CBS days, but he's been horrible for 15 years now. I'd like to see Al Michaels and pretty much any analyst that's not McCarver. Always liked Al's baseball work. Either that or Jon Miller. (without Morgan)

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MikeThierry
10-25-2011, 11:14 PM
Case in point.. last night I think the score was tied.. In any event, there's a guy on second, no outs, and Beltre is at the plate.. McCarver has this 5 minute monologue where he "figures out" that Beltre is probably not going to bunt.. Talk about over analyzing the obvious!

hahaha yeah I remember that. Good god get this guy off TV.

Chip R
10-25-2011, 11:17 PM
I listen to ESPN Radio on my home from work at night and Dan Schulman, Orel Hershisher and Bobby Valentine (even thought he sounds like Fat Tony from the Simpsons) do a very good job.

MikeThierry
10-25-2011, 11:19 PM
I listen to ESPN Radio on my home from work at night and Dan Schulman, Orel Hershisher and Bobby Valentine (even thought he sounds like Fat Tony from the Simpsons) do a very good job.

I like Schulman a lot. Valentine is absolutely horrible though. He might actually be worse than McCarver.

camisadelgolf
10-26-2011, 12:23 AM
Orel Hershiser is one of the best around right now. I'd love to see him take Buck's or McCarver's job.

blumj
10-26-2011, 12:51 AM
Case in point.. last night I think the score was tied.. In any event, there's a guy on second, no outs, and Beltre is at the plate.. McCarver has this 5 minute monologue where he "figures out" that Beltre is probably not going to bunt.. Talk about over analyzing the obvious!
That game was so loaded with "what the heck?" that about the only thing missing was an Adrian Beltre bunt.

RedsManRick
10-26-2011, 01:35 AM
If not the Vin Scully model, I'd really like to see a 3 man booth model with:

1) A play-by-play guy - professional announcer, calls the action
2) An ex-player analyst/color guy - provides insight about what guys are thinking, feeling, or scouting type insights
3) A stats analyst/color guy - provides stats based analysis and insight that is well articulated and accessible

Basically, I want the Tim McCarvers and Joe Morgans to tell me more about how a catcher and pitcher are communicating, how a runner is taking his lead, etc. and less about what a guy's batting average is against a certain pitcher over his career when he's only faced him 14 times and half those PA came a decade ago.

dougdirt
10-26-2011, 01:42 AM
If not the Vin Scully model, I'd really like to see a 3 man booth model with:

1) A play-by-play guy - professional announcer, calls the action
2) An ex-player analyst/color guy - provides insight about what guys are thinking, feeling, or scouting type insights
3) A stats analyst/color guy - provides stats based analysis and insight that is well articulated and accessible

Basically, I want the Tim McCarvers and Joe Morgans to tell me more about how a catcher and pitcher are communicating, how a runner is taking his lead, etc. and less about what a guy's batting average is against a certain pitcher over his career when he's only faced him 14 times and half those PA came a decade ago.

All that would do would incite arguments from the "old school" types about how those numbers don't mean anything. Morgan has those arguments with himself on the air now and that is without someone else even being there.

RedsManRick
10-26-2011, 01:46 AM
All that would do would incite arguments from the "old school" types about how those numbers don't mean anything. Morgan has those arguments with himself on the air now and that is without someone else even being there.

Maybe those fireworks are part of what I'm going for...

cumberlandreds
10-26-2011, 07:14 AM
I listen to ESPN Radio on my home from work at night and Dan Schulman, Orel Hershisher and Bobby Valentine (even thought he sounds like Fat Tony from the Simpsons) do a very good job.

Schulman and Hershiser would be a very good TV team. They can leave out Valentine. He's too full of himself for my tastes.

puca
10-26-2011, 07:34 AM
No. I've spent time with Dibs, and I like him as a person, but no.

I'd actually rather listen to the Cowboy than McCarver though.

I suppose Dibs couldn't possibly be as big a tool as he sounds on the air, but are you saying he is actually likeable in person? That is hard for me to believe.

But back to the topic McCarver has always been awful and gets worse every year. He is so awful that I don't even think it is fair to evaluate his broadcast parterner. Cowboy versus McCarver....wow that is a tough one. I guess as long as Cowboy is not doing play-by-play I can tolerate him. Cowboy says a lot of insipid things, but when he talks about baseball it is usually pretty good stuff.

Roy Tucker
10-26-2011, 08:00 AM
The only sport Fox does halfway decently is NFL football. Everything else they butcher up.

Meanwhile, Bob Costas wastes away in NBC-land

paintmered
10-26-2011, 08:15 AM
The only sport Fox does halfway decently is NFL football. Everything else they butcher up.

Meanwhile, Bob Costas wastes away in NBC-land

If you want a really scary thought, Fox landed the next World Cup contract.

camisadelgolf
10-26-2011, 08:41 AM
No. I've spent time with Dibs, and I like him as a person, but no.

I'd actually rather listen to the Cowboy than McCarver though.
I was being tongue-in-cheek.

cumberlandreds
10-26-2011, 08:46 AM
The only sport Fox does halfway decently is NFL football. Everything else they butcher up.

Meanwhile, Bob Costas wastes away in NBC-land

Totally agree. Costas does a few games on the MLB Network but not nearly enough. His baseball broadcasting talents are being wasted away.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-26-2011, 06:37 PM
Joe Buck is absolutely brutal in MLB and NFL games. He sounds like he hates his job and being at the Super Bowl and/or World Series is just part of the daily grind for him. Like any of us would sound if we were stuck in Monday morning traffic.

I'd honestly rather have anyone than him. I'd rather McCarver do it alone, for crying out loud. And he's abysmal.

MrCinatit
10-26-2011, 08:54 PM
Orel Hershiser is one of the best around right now. I'd love to see him take Buck's or McCarver's job.



Funny, because his was the first name I thought of when it came to player commentators. The second was Ron Darling, not so much because he is great, but because he for some reminds me of James Woods when he talks.

What is depressing about McCarver is that he has been doing it for so bloody long. He's been doing playoff baseball for longer than our right fielder has been alive. As the article pointed out, not only has he announced more World Series' than anyone in history...but he has shattered that record.
Surely we as baseball fans deserve better.

Ron Madden
10-27-2011, 03:01 AM
Schulman and Hershiser would be a very good TV team. They can leave out Valentine. He's too full of himself for my tastes.

I agree, Schulman and Hershiser are very good. Valentine gets on my nerves.

bucksfan2
10-27-2011, 08:43 AM
I agree, Schulman and Hershiser are very good. Valentine gets on my nerves.

Dan Schulman gets my vote for the best TV guy in baseball. I like listening to him do games and don't think anyone does it better. Joe Buck is the most arrogant man on TV. I don't understand why someone who gets to the #1 spot on their respective network go down the drain. I can't stand listening to Buck and Aikman do football. Same thing with Nantz and Simms. The only top dog I like is Bob Costas and Al Michales and thats because they don't let themselves think they are bigger than the event on the field. It also drives me nuts when the pbp guy starts to attack the players for doing something wrong. There is a reason the color guy is in the booth.

gilpdawg
10-27-2011, 10:19 AM
It also drives me nuts when the pbp guy starts to attack the players for doing something wrong. There is a reason the color guy is in the booth.

You mean like Thom? Drives me crazy. I'm always screaming at the TV "baseball is hard Thom!"

RANDY IN INDY
10-27-2011, 10:31 AM
Loved the team of Dick Enberg and Merlin Olsen for football. My favorite of all time.

RANDY IN INDY
10-27-2011, 10:32 AM
I liked Pat Summerall as well, but Madden could get on my nerves sometimes.

cumberlandreds
10-27-2011, 11:41 AM
Funny, because his was the first name I thought of when it came to player commentators. The second was Ron Darling, not so much because he is great, but because he for some reminds me of James Woods when he talks.

What is depressing about McCarver is that he has been doing it for so bloody long. He's been doing playoff baseball for longer than our right fielder has been alive. As the article pointed out, not only has he announced more World Series' than anyone in history...but he has shattered that record.
Surely we as baseball fans deserve better.

I thought about Darling too. He's come along way from his season he broadcast National games on TV in 2005. He hardly said a word that season. You hardly knew he was in the booth. But now he seems really good and make watching Mets telecasts tolerable.

Big Klu
10-27-2011, 11:44 AM
I agree, Schulman and Hershiser are very good. Valentine gets on my nerves.

Hershiser lost me during the regular season when he stated that gravity pulls on a curveball more than it does on a fastball. Now, every time I hear him I think he's an idiot. I guess ol' Orel skipped Physics class at BGSU!

Blimpie
10-27-2011, 01:44 PM
This might sound crazy, but I thought Ron Darling showed some analyst chops this year during some of the TBS broadcasts

RANDY IN INDY
10-27-2011, 01:44 PM
Looks to me like the downward spin of the curveball would help gravity pull it down faster than that of a fastball. Not a rocket scientist but makes sense to me.

RedsManRick
10-27-2011, 01:49 PM
Looks to me like the downward spin of the curveball would help gravity pull it down faster than that of a fastball. Not a rocket scientist but makes sense to me.

The effect of gravity is constant and unaffected by movement. The spin on the ball affects air flow and thus air pressure, resulting in the same sort of effect that causes lift on an airplane wing -- magnus force. Different spin on different axis "pulls" the ball in a given direction and more spin = more pull.

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/jon_drobnis/curveball.html
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/jon_drobnis/images/pics/curveball.gif
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/jon_drobnis/images/pics/curwave.jpg

traderumor
10-29-2011, 10:37 AM
Hershiser lost me during the regular season when he stated that gravity pulls on a curveball more than it does on a fastball. Now, every time I hear him I think he's an idiot. I guess ol' Orel skipped Physics class at BGSU!How could a guy named "Orel" not be right about everything? ;)

camisadelgolf
10-29-2011, 04:31 PM
I don't take things like what Orel said literally even when it's intended to be. I haven't heard the quote, but I'm sure he wasn't trying to give the public a lesson on physics--he was probably trying to illustrate the effectiveness of a curveball.

cincinnati chili
10-30-2011, 01:53 PM
I think I'm the only one that likes Joe Buck. I'm usually fine with him. Historically, for every time Buck says something asinine, McCarver says ten things that are painfully corny.

cincinnati chili
10-30-2011, 01:57 PM
Buck and McCarver I have never liked. This post season, though, they aren't really annoying me. Maybe I am becoming numb to them

I agree about McCarver. I've always said he knows a ton about the game and is an effective communicator, but whenever he tries to be funny I want to throw things at the TV. I saw a lot of the World Series, and he was very sharp and less corny.

My biggest complaint with both of them (and this is true of many announcers) was that they were way too deferential to the home plate umpires. Some of ball/strike calling was horrible. Even though it's not their job to bury the umpires, it would be useful for them to point every time an umpire makes a ball or strike call that is incorrect according to the K-Zone or equivalent.

cincinnati chili
10-30-2011, 01:58 PM
Costas annoys me to no end.

Why?

cincinnati chili
10-30-2011, 01:59 PM
I listen to ESPN Radio on my home from work at night and Dan Schulman, Orel Hershisher and Bobby Valentine (even thought he sounds like Fat Tony from the Simpsons) do a very good job.

Agreed. I'm not sure that the quantity of talk would have translated well to TV, but they were excellent on the radio in the 4 or 5 times I heard them during my half-hour commute home.

Chip R
10-30-2011, 07:03 PM
Agreed. I'm not sure that the quantity of talk would have translated well to TV, but they were excellent on the radio in the 4 or 5 times I heard them during my half-hour commute home.

That's true because Valentine was talking about stuff that was pretty esoteric i.e. defensive plays. A lot of that stuff would go over a hardcore fan's head. I know it did mine. But Orel was very good talking about pitching.

TeamBoone
10-31-2011, 01:22 PM
Costas annoys me to no end.

I love him... and he loves the game.

Rojo
10-31-2011, 03:41 PM
The second was Ron Darling, not so much because he is great, but because he for some reminds me of James Woods when he talks.

Me too. I kept thinking of him tormenting Peter Griffin.

paintmered
10-31-2011, 09:41 PM
Me too. I kept thinking of him tormenting Peter Griffin.

Excellent segue for my annual posting of this:

Tim McCarver on a good day - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdTYVxzEwI)

Playadlc
10-31-2011, 10:19 PM
"That new OPS stat."

-Joe Buck, while calling the 2011 Tigers/Rangers ALCS.

757690
10-31-2011, 10:24 PM
I agree about McCarver. I've always said he knows a ton about the game and is an effective communicator, but whenever he tries to be funny I want to throw things at the TV.

I can't remember the game, but I remember McCarver opening a broadcast by saying, "it's ironic that the Goodyear blimp is flying over head, because tonight's starting pitcher is having a... Good year.".

cincinnati chili
11-02-2011, 12:34 AM
I can't remember the game, but I remember McCarver opening a broadcast by saying, "it's ironic that the Goodyear blimp is flying over head, because tonight's starting pitcher is having a... Good year.".

Yeah. That kinda stuff. It just negates every intelligent thing he has to say about the game. I mean, if Albert Einstein made such lame attempts at humor, we'd still think he was an idiot.