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View Full Version : Votto/BP win gold gloves...



mroby85
11-02-2011, 01:45 AM
Didn't see this posted, but Votto and BP won gold gloves! I was glad to see Votto get one, it's obvious he's worked really hard to get better at first base and it's nice to see him get recognized for it in the best way possible. Bruce was snubbed again, and deserves a GG, can't get over how dumb the OF GG rules are.

Kingspoint
11-02-2011, 01:51 AM
Congratulations to both players.

Well earned.

drowg14
11-02-2011, 01:57 AM
Votto is a quality 1B. Not sure if he is the best though. Bruce keeps getting screwed, so that's good.

Krawhitham
11-02-2011, 09:05 AM
Votto is a quality 1B. Not sure if he is the best though. Bruce keeps getting screwed, so that's good.

Votto:
It was the assists that got him gold, he had 173, Pujols was second at 165 but he had almost twice as many errors as Votto. 3rd place had a large drop off at 104 assists. Votto also had a .996 Fpct which was 2nd .001 behind the leader. Votto was clearly the best 1st baseman in the NL last season


Bruce:
He did not get screwed, it was close and could have went either way. This season they went with a GG for each outfield position. Ethier had a little bit more range, they were close in assists (Bruce 10 & 8) but Ethier had ZERO errors while Bruce had 4

bounty37h
11-02-2011, 10:44 AM
Congrats to them both, both great Reds and hope they are around for awhile to win some more.
That said, odd we have 2 GG on the right side of the field (as well as great candidate in RF), and dont even know who is playing on the left....

cincyforever
11-02-2011, 11:07 AM
Votto:
It was the assists that got him gold, he had 173, Pujols was second at 165 but he had almost twice as many errors as Votto. 3rd place had a large drop off at 104 assists. Votto also had a .996 Fpct which was 2nd .001 behind the leader. Votto was clearly the best 1st baseman in the NL last season


Bruce:
He did not get screwed, it was close and could have went either way. This season they went with a GG for each outfield position. Ethier had a little bit more range, they were close in assists (Bruce 10 & 8) but Ethier had ZERO errors while Bruce had 4
I like people like you. More of a realist than an over-emotionally driven person.

DocRed
11-02-2011, 11:07 AM
Votto:
It was the assists that got him gold, he had 173, Pujols was second at 165 but he had almost twice as many errors as Votto. 3rd place had a large drop off at 104 assists. Votto also had a .996 Fpct which was 2nd .001 behind the leader. Votto was clearly the best 1st baseman in the NL last season


Bruce:
He did not get screwed, it was close and could have went either way. This season they went with a GG for each outfield position. Ethier had a little bit more range, they were close in assists (Bruce 10 & 8) but Ethier had ZERO errors while Bruce had 4

Stats only tell a small part of the story when you are talking defense.

R_Webb18
11-02-2011, 11:46 AM
Stats only tell a small part of the story when you are talking defense.

im guessing u dont watch nonreds players as much.

drowg14
11-02-2011, 01:37 PM
Votto:
It was the assists that got him gold, he had 173, Pujols was second at 165 but he had almost twice as many errors as Votto. 3rd place had a large drop off at 104 assists. Votto also had a .996 Fpct which was 2nd .001 behind the leader. Votto was clearly the best 1st baseman in the NL last season


Bruce:
He did not get screwed, it was close and could have went either way. This season they went with a GG for each outfield position. Ethier had a little bit more range, they were close in assists (Bruce 10 & 8) but Ethier had ZERO errors while Bruce had 4

I was unaware they switched the rules this year. Ethier might have deserved it this year over Bruce, but Bruce is good every year and has yet to receive the recognition that many here feel he deserves. Bruce also had 10 assists to Ethier's 8.

And with Votto, there is one play that I saw him botch over and over again. He has real trouble feeding the ball to the pitcher running to first. Although upon looking further into it, he led the NL in UZR as well, so I will retract that he didn't deserve it.

The pick that makes no sense to me is Kemp. Fielding metrics might not be good for single season comparison due to small sample size, but he has a career -42.3 UZR per fangraphs. This year was is second best at -4.6. I guess it's easy to only have 5 errors when you can't get to as many balls. This is also Ethier's first non-negative UZR year since 2007.

Nathan
11-02-2011, 06:30 PM
It's kind of funny. When Votto first came up, his main "negative" was he was a below average fielder. It's amazing how much hard work and determination to be the best can get you. Now, he's considered among the best.

LegallyMinded
11-02-2011, 08:57 PM
It's interesting that the voters nailed some positions, like Votto at 1B and Beltre at 3B, but dropped the ball, so to speak, in picking Markakis, Kemp and others. It makes me wonder what exactly goes through their decision-making process: is it some bizarre combination of reputation, advanced metrics and traditional stats, or did they just get lucky on a few picks and unlucky on others?

drowg14
11-02-2011, 09:02 PM
It's interesting that the voters nailed some positions, like Votto at 1B and Beltre at 3B, but dropped the ball, so to speak, in picking Markakis, Kemp and others. It makes me wonder what exactly goes through their decision-making process: is it some bizarre combination of reputation, advanced metrics and traditional stats, or did they just get lucky on a few picks and unlucky on others?

Reputation is big. Offense, ridiculously enough, is also part of it. I'm guessing with most of the voters traditional stats are used more than advanced metrics. You may not be to far off with your lucky/unlucky guess tbh.

DocRed
11-03-2011, 10:55 PM
Reputation is big. Offense, ridiculously enough, is also part of it. I'm guessing with most of the voters traditional stats are used more than advanced metrics. You may not be to far off with your lucky/unlucky guess tbh.

Winning an MVP prol helps a little too....

Todd Gack
11-04-2011, 08:25 AM
Stats only tell a small part of the story when you are talking defense.

True. But as much of a rocket arm Bruce has out there, he sure looks lost a lot of times.