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View Full Version : Veterans Commitee HOF Nominees Named



Danny Serafini
11-03-2011, 04:29 PM
No Reds up for possible induction this year, but a couple of names that may have a good shot to get in. Here's the list:

Gil Hodges
Ron Santo
Jim Kaat
Luis Tiant
Ken Boyer
Minnie Minoso
Tony Olivo
Allie Reynolds
Buzzie Bavasi
Charlie Finley

Vote will be on December 5.

George Anderson
11-03-2011, 04:38 PM
I bet no one gets in.

RedsBaron
11-03-2011, 04:39 PM
Ron Santo leads that list and, now that he is dead and cannot enjoy the honor, I expect he will finally be inducted.
There are already too many executives in the HOF as far as I am concerned, and Bavasi and Finley are absurd candidates IMO.
Allie Reynolds was a fine pitcher and belongs in the Hall of Good; there are a lot of pitchers who had better careers than Reynolds who are not in the HOF and I cannot think why he should be in the HOF. Bill James once argued for basing selections in part upon the determination that a candidate was the best qualified player at his position not in the HOF. No way can that be said about Reynolds.
Gil Hodges will probably get support, and his stats are somewhat similar to those of Tony Perez and Orlando Cepeda, but Perez and Cepeda were better players IMO. Hodges really wasn't much better than Norm Cash. I wouldn't vote for Hodges.

RedsBaron
11-03-2011, 04:43 PM
Ken Boyer was about 98% of Ron Santo. Both men are among the best dozen or so third basemen ever. Bill James favored Boyer's induction. So do I.
Jim Kaat would get my vote.
The HOF saw fit to induct Catfish Hunter and Jim Bunning. Luis Tiant was every bit their equal and was their direct contemporary. I'd vote for El Tiante.
Tony Oliva belongs in the Hall of Very Very Good but I wouldn't induct him.
The argument for Minoso is that the color line kept him out of MLB until he was age 28 or so and, but for that, his career numbers would have resulted in his induction. I believe James favored him. I'm on the fence regarding Minoso.

George Anderson
11-03-2011, 05:06 PM
.

Ron Madden
11-04-2011, 02:47 AM
Ron Santo leads that list and, now that he is dead and cannot enjoy the honor, I expect he will finally be inducted.
There are already too many executives in the HOF as far as I am concerned, and Bavasi and Finley are absurd candidates IMO.
Allie Reynolds was a fine pitcher and belongs in the Hall of Good; there are a lot of pitchers who had better careers than Reynolds who are not in the HOF and I cannot think why he should be in the HOF. Bill James once argued for basing selections in part upon the determination that a candidate was the best qualified player at his position not in the HOF. No way can that be said about Reynolds.
Gil Hodges will probably get support, and his stats are somewhat similar to those of Tony Perez and Orlando Cepeda, but Perez and Cepeda were better players IMO. Hodges really wasn't much better than Norm Cash. I wouldn't vote for Hodges.

Agreed. My exact thoughts in a nutshell.

cumberlandreds
11-04-2011, 07:42 AM
All very good players. Great? I don't think so. I wouldn't vote for any of them. But I do think Santo will make it.

Finley being nominated is crazy. He was not good for that game at all, IMO. He personified the old line ownership of ultimate greed that eventually lead to free agency for the players. Most of his "innovations" were rather stupid too. Green baseballs? Designated runners? He had a jack-ass as a mascot at one time. That was very appropriate for him.

Ron Madden
11-05-2011, 02:24 AM
I believe Ron Santo deserves the honor, too bad he'll not be around to enjoy it.

HokieRed
11-05-2011, 09:04 AM
Santo and Boyer, IMO, have deserved it for years and I think would have been in if their careers had not been so similar.

redsmetz
11-12-2011, 05:58 AM
Column on why Santo should be in the hall:

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/why-ron-santo-should-be-in-the-hall/?ref=baseball

redsmetz
11-12-2011, 06:03 AM
Another piece from the Times asks why Dick Allen was left off. Besides setting forth the argument for Allen, the writer looks at some other aspects to be considered about some of the players on the ballot this year.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/ken-boyer-and-tony-oliva-are-on-the-ballot-but-why-not-dick-allen/?ref=baseball

redsmetz
11-12-2011, 06:08 AM
And another arguing why three of the pitchers don't make the grade, in the opinion of the columnist:

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/kaat-tiant-reynolds-who-belongs-in-the-hall/

redsmetz
11-16-2011, 05:37 AM
The NY TImes baseball blogger has been running a series on the Veterans committee's ballot. Here's one on Gil Hodges.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/hodges-added-to-his-credentials-after-playing-days/?ref=baseball

I suspect the same goes for Joe Torre in this category.

redsmetz
11-16-2011, 05:42 AM
And this piece on a couple of execs available.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/for-executives-cases-for-hall-are-not-strong-enough/?ref=baseball

RedsBaron
11-16-2011, 06:52 AM
And this piece on a couple of execs available.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/for-executives-cases-for-hall-are-not-strong-enough/?ref=baseball

In general I do not favor inducting executives into the HOF, although I will concede that Branch Rickey certainly deserved induction. Finley's candidacy is a bad joke.
I am surprised that Jacob Ruppert is not in the HOF. If we are going to induct executives, then Ruppert is Babe Ruth while Finley is Juan Castro.

RedsBaron
11-16-2011, 06:57 AM
The NY TImes baseball blogger has been running a series on the Veterans committee's ballot. Here's one on Gil Hodges.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/hodges-added-to-his-credentials-after-playing-days/?ref=baseball

I suspect the same goes for Joe Torre in this category.

Joe Torre, as a catcher, had a better argument for induction as a player than does Hodges, and Torre will make it as a manager. Hodges's relatively young death kept him from having a chance to build a HOF worthy case for induction based upon his managerial achievements.
Hodges was a very good player and there are certainly first basemen in the HOF who were not as good as he was, but I would still vote no.

RedsBaron
11-16-2011, 07:01 AM
And another arguing why three of the pitchers don't make the grade, in the opinion of the columnist:

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/kaat-tiant-reynolds-who-belongs-in-the-hall/

He is simply and clearly wrong in asserting that Bunning deserved induction into the HOF while Tiant does not. He also failed to mention Catfish Hunter. If you want to argue that inducting Bunning and Hunter were mistakes, then you can be consistent in arguing that Tiant should not be inducted into the HOF. However, those three pitchers were contemporaries and Tiant is every much as deserving of induction as were the other two.

RedsBaron
11-16-2011, 07:18 AM
Column on why Santo should be in the hall:

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/why-ron-santo-should-be-in-the-hall/?ref=baseball

I agree that Santo should be in the HOF, but I sometimes wonder if his supposed edge with the bat over Ken Boyer is overstated. While Santo's career numbers in HR and BA/OBP/SLG gives him a lead over Boyer, with Santo having 342 HR and a line of .277/.362/.464 compared to Boyer's 282 HR and line of .287/.349/.462, Santo apparently was greatly helped by a home park advantage.
Wrigley Field was both a great hitters park and Santo had the advantage of playing all of his home games in the sunshine. While he hit 216 HR with a line of .296/.383/.522 at home, his road numbers were 126 HR and .257/.342/.406.
Boyer had 148 HR with a line of .298/.357/.480 at home, with less of a road fall off: 134 HR and .277/.340/.443.

redsmetz
11-21-2011, 04:54 AM
Another blog on the Veteran's vote, this time on Allie Reynolds. It lays out a considerably number of reasons why he shouldn't make it, but it also has some interesting back story as well some references to sites others may find of interest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/sports/baseball/hall-committee-reviews-yankees-allie-reynolds.html?ref=baseball

vic715
11-21-2011, 03:29 PM
Jim Kaat would get my vote.Vada Pinson was as good or better than Santo and Boyer and he's not on the list.

wolfboy
11-21-2011, 10:38 PM
Joe Torre, as a catcher, had a better argument for induction as a player than does Hodges, and Torre will make it as a manager. Hodges's relatively young death kept him from having a chance to build a HOF worthy case for induction based upon his managerial achievements.
Hodges was a very good player and there are certainly first basemen in the HOF who were not as good as he was, but I would still vote no.

Hodges was blocked at C by Roy Campanella. Hard to blame the guy there. The start of his career was stalled by his service in WWII. Also hard to blame him there. I'd vote the guy in.

redsmetz
11-22-2011, 05:46 AM
Here's the column from Seamheads on this year's ballot: http://seamheads.com/2011/11/10/the-golden-era-hall-of-fame-ballot/

RedsBaron
11-22-2011, 06:25 AM
Hodges was blocked at C by Roy Campanella. Hard to blame the guy there. The start of his career was stalled by his service in WWII. Also hard to blame him there. I'd vote the guy in.

While I don't support the induction of Hodges, possible the best HOF argument for Hodges is that he may have been the best first baseman of his era, the 1950s. There were other first basemen in that decade who had better seasons, such as Ted Kluzewski, but for the decade as a whole, Hodges was clearly the best at his position (unless you put Stan Musial there).

redsmetz
12-05-2011, 05:37 AM
Here's one more from the Times, this time from a Chicago writer viz Minnie Minoso. I've liked these columns because they've gone into detail on the candidates backgrounds, now long forgotten.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/us/minnie-minoso-gets-another-shot-at-baseball-hall-of-fame.html?ref=baseball

George Anderson
12-05-2011, 11:05 AM
WGN is reporting Ron Santo made the HOF.

redsmetz
12-05-2011, 11:10 AM
WGN is reporting Ron Santo made the HOF.

As is mlbtraderumors: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/ron-santo-elected-to-hall-of-fame.html