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View Full Version : Source: Mets willing to trade David Wright



savafan
11-06-2011, 03:02 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/source_mets_open_to_wright_deal_UJ6FhfhAW6PtCnXHrS 3CXJ


Word continues to circulate in baseball circles that the Mets will be willing to discuss David Wright in trades this offseason as part of a complete facelift/rebuild away from Wright and Jose Reyes.

“We will listen on Wright for sure,” a Mets official told me during the week. “We know we are not going to win it all in 2012. We have to hope the Phillies get old and we are in position to take advantage of that in 2013-14, and we have to figure out ways to speed the process to get there.”

dougdirt
11-06-2011, 03:07 PM
One year at $15M with a $16M team option w/ $1M buyout for 2013.

What do you give up?

nemesis
11-06-2011, 05:30 PM
One year at $15M with a $16M team option w/ $1M buyout for 2013.

What do you give up?

Stubbs, Volquez, Bailey.

mth123
11-06-2011, 05:33 PM
One year at $15M with a $16M team option w/ $1M buyout for 2013.

What do you give up?

Nothing unless the Mets pay his salary. Adding that much to the payroll means no room for a starting pitcher, which, IMO, means 3rd or 4th place in 2012.

PuffyPig
11-06-2011, 06:24 PM
Stubbs, Volquez, Bailey.

Weakens our pitching considerably, and no money to fix it.

KoryMac5
11-06-2011, 07:30 PM
Wright would be a 35 HR guy in GABP, however his D has been on a slow decline and he does have some back concerns. I would part with Stubbs and some second tier pitchers to get him though.

Vottomatic
11-06-2011, 07:54 PM
How many third basemen do we need?

Just say no. We have other concerns.

dougdirt
11-06-2011, 07:55 PM
How many third basemen do we need?

Just say no. We have other concerns.

I would say we need one good one.

757690
11-06-2011, 08:09 PM
I would say we need one good one.

Is Wright a good one? He wasn't last year. And is he even a third baseman anymore?

dougdirt
11-06-2011, 08:13 PM
Is Wright a good one? He wasn't last year. And is he even a third baseman anymore?

I don't know if he is or not at this point, to be honest. I just know that I don't think the Reds have a good one at this point.

Vottomatic
11-06-2011, 08:33 PM
Juan Francisco

dougdirt
11-06-2011, 08:35 PM
Juan Francisco

What about him? He isn't good? He is good? He should be traded for David Wright? He is playing in the Dominican Winter League right now?

Mario-Rijo
11-06-2011, 08:51 PM
Grandal, Rolen, Volquez & Stubbs for Wright & Cash to even out the contracts for '12, '13 we are on our own. It's really a good fit IMO, he's under contract for as long as Votto also. This gives the Mets 2 and with Volquez potentially 3 building blocks for the future. Rolen is just a money balancer and someone who goes to fill in with NYM's. My guess is given the fact he'll be in NY he'll likely call it a career helping everyone out.

mth123
11-06-2011, 08:59 PM
Grandal, Rolen, Volquez & Stubbs for Wright & Cash to even out the contracts for '12, '13 we are on our own. It's really a good fit IMO, he's under contract for as long as Votto also. This gives the Mets 2 and with Volquez potentially 3 building blocks for the future. Rolen is just a money balancer and someone who goes to fill in with NYM's. My guess is given the fact he'll be in NY he'll likely call it a career helping everyone out.

I think Rolen would just retire rather than agreeing to that.

dougdirt
11-06-2011, 09:03 PM
I think Rolen would just retire rather than agreeing to that.

Agreed. Rolen isn't going anywhere.

mdccclxix
11-06-2011, 09:29 PM
If they Reds know he will play LF, that's the only way I see this as a possibility. I think he could do some real damage in this lineup. I'd trade some of the younger talent. Say, Corcino, Vidal and Francisco.

marcshoe
11-06-2011, 10:11 PM
I'd go for it, as long as his salary didn't keep the Reds from going after a top tier pitcher. I think you'd see a revitalized Wright. No idea whether he'd be okay with a move to left, but, even though I'm a longtime Rolen fan, I think it's a mistake to think the Reds have a guy they can plug in at third going into the season. I wouldn't be surprised if Rolen's body told him that the end is even closer than we thought.

Mario-Rijo
11-06-2011, 10:14 PM
I think Rolen would just retire rather than agreeing to that.

Well that is part of the idea. Alot better than him not being a part of the deal and being a roadblock to having Wright. It's not really a classy move but it may well be a winning move.

If not Rolen then maybe Arroyo, he'd pitch much better in that park. Gotta do something to balance the dollars. Then find a way to move Rolen somewhere.

But I know better, the Reds don't have it in them.

RedsManRick
11-06-2011, 10:31 PM
Is Scott Rolen dead? Why do people keep acting like he's gone?

Captain Hook
11-07-2011, 02:39 AM
I'd go for it, as long as his salary didn't keep the Reds from going after a top tier pitcher. I think you'd see a revitalized Wright. No idea whether he'd be okay with a move to left, but, even though I'm a longtime Rolen fan, I think it's a mistake to think the Reds have a guy they can plug in at third going into the season. I wouldn't be surprised if Rolen's body told him that the end is even closer than we thought.

His salary would keep the Reds from going after a top tier pitcher.

Maybe Rolen retires(not likely) and the Mets eat some of Wrights salary.I don't have a problem with Wright playing 3B for the Reds next year but I just don't see it happening unless some pretty unlikely things go down.

schroomytunes
11-07-2011, 02:45 AM
No way do I give up anything for David Wright, if we want him we can pursue him in 2013! We have to fix the LF and Starting rotation before we add that kind of $$$. If we use Rolen/Francisco wisely we will be ok at 3b!

mth123
11-07-2011, 05:25 AM
Well that is part of the idea. Alot better than him not being a part of the deal and being a roadblock to having Wright. It's not really a classy move but it may well be a winning move.

If not Rolen then maybe Arroyo, he'd pitch much better in that park. Gotta do something to balance the dollars. Then find a way to move Rolen somewhere.

But I know better, the Reds don't have it in them.

Dealing Arroyo means the Reds pay him his $15 Million in deferred money on the day the deal goes down. That doesn't balance the money. If Rolen retires, the Mets probably don't make the deal you proposed. Neither of those guys can be used to balance the money in the deal you propose. The only way you can do it would be to include Brandon Phillips, and I wouldn't deal Phillps for Wright straight up. The Reds are better off with Phillips at 2B and Rolen/Francisco at 3B than they would be by adding Wright, having a black hole at 2B and having $4 Million less in payflex.

Rolen is not going anywhere. The Reds are not moving his money. The only place he might go would be St. Louis now that Larussa is gone and I'm guessing they aren't interested in a third basemen right now and they sure aren't interested in helping the Reds out of the financial box they are confined to. Just like when the Reds acquired Rolen from Toronto, he's not going anywhere else. If they try to deal him, he'll threaten retriement and kill the deal. If the deal dies, he'll withdraw his retirement request and the Reds still need to pay him.

Finally, the Mets are having fairly large financial problems thanks to Bernie Madoff. If they deal Wright, they aren't going to want to take big money back. I think they'd want a bunch of prospects and to relieve themselves of the salary to pull the trigger on a Wright deal. Looking for NY to provide the Reds a star player and to make the money work just ain't gonna happen. Its like asking the homeless guy at the intersection to help you with your house payment.

osuceltic
11-07-2011, 10:07 AM
Is Scott Rolen dead? Why do people keep acting like he's gone?

No kidding. He is the third baseman for this team until he gets hurt or his contract expires. That's just the way it is.

Remember, the guy had shoulder surgery last year. I wouldn't be surprised if he had one more good year in him.

klw
11-07-2011, 10:44 AM
Is Scott Rolen dead? Why do people keep acting like he's gone?


Bring out your dead - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXibX5I0ZBU&feature=related)

Johnny Footstool
11-07-2011, 11:18 AM
I'd go for it, as long as his salary didn't keep the Reds from going after a top tier pitcher. I think you'd see a revitalized Wright. No idea whether he'd be okay with a move to left, but, even though I'm a longtime Rolen fan, I think it's a mistake to think the Reds have a guy they can plug in at third going into the season. I wouldn't be surprised if Rolen's body told him that the end is even closer than we thought.

There really isn't any reason to think the Reds will go after a top-tier pitcher, regardless of David Wright's salary.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2011, 11:30 AM
Dealing Arroyo means the Reds pay him his $15 Million in deferred money on the day the deal goes down. That doesn't balance the money. If Rolen retires, the Mets probably don't make the deal you proposed. Neither of those guys can be used to balance the money in the deal you propose. The only way you can do it would be to include Brandon Phillips, and I wouldn't deal Phillps for Wright straight up. The Reds are better off with Phillips at 2B and Rolen/Francisco at 3B than they would be by adding Wright, having a black hole at 2B and having $4 Million less in payflex.

Rolen is not going anywhere. The Reds are not moving his money. The only place he might go would be St. Louis now that Larussa is gone and I'm guessing they aren't interested in a third basemen right now and they sure aren't interested in helping the Reds out of the financial box they are confined to. Just like when the Reds acquired Rolen from Toronto, he's not going anywhere else. If they try to deal him, he'll threaten retriement and kill the deal. If the deal dies, he'll withdraw his retirement request and the Reds still need to pay him.

Finally, the Mets are having fairly large financial problems thanks to Bernie Madoff. If they deal Wright, they aren't going to want to take big money back. I think they'd want a bunch of prospects and to relieve themselves of the salary to pull the trigger on a Wright deal. Looking for NY to provide the Reds a star player and to make the money work just ain't gonna happen. Its like asking the homeless guy at the intersection to help you with your house payment.

That's one way to look at it. Here's another....

A.) Reds need a #4 hitter and quite possibly a 3B more than any other position. The reason everyone wants a LF is because we need a #4 hitter and that is as reasonable place to add as any. But if we can fill the #4 hole then we don't really need to add a LF, we can roll with who we have.

B.) Mets want youth/potential impact players, this and not payflex is the reason for dealing Wright. I'm sure if they could do both they may but it's not necessarily a must to do both.

C.) Reds likely cannot afford to add much if any payroll. The Mets are already budgeted for Wrights dollars for the next 2 years.

D.) No one in the deal really wants Rolen (in this hypothetical deal). His sole purpose is to balance out the money and perhaps give the Mets a partial stop gap (they also have Daniel Murphy). In essence they take him on in order to make the deal work so they can get what it is they want/need for the start of their rebuild. Neither team cares if he threatens retirement as he is not a principal part in the deal and he has no trade clause. If it is an issue you offer to send Francisco or Frazier (they could use eithers power potential) if Rolen decides to pull that card after the fact. In fact if he retires he takes the Mets off the hook for paying him (or does he?, doesn't really matter).

On Arroyo I suppose that is a fair reason for not dealing him but I'm guessing there is some way around this, there usually is a way to make it work for all parties. But again not sure the Rolen idea can't work anyhow.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2011, 11:32 AM
There really isn't any reason to think the Reds will go after a top-tier pitcher, regardless of David Wright's salary.

Quite true. Plus as much as it would be nice to have one and as much as I think we could use one it doesn't mean we can't win without one or at least one who is defined as such at this very moment.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2011, 11:35 AM
Is Scott Rolen dead? Why do people keep acting like he's gone?

Who is doing that? Whats wrong with thinking of ways to improve/upgrade? Or with having someone in case he can't go. But even if he does he doesn't fill the role for us as a #4 hitter Wright does and I think he'd be a much better #4 for us than any LF that we could get. He also fits this 2 year window. Rolen isn't dead but he might as well be as he isn't likely to help much.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2011, 11:37 AM
No way do I give up anything for David Wright, if we want him we can pursue him in 2013! We have to fix the LF and Starting rotation before we add that kind of $$$. If we use Rolen/Francisco wisely we will be ok at 3b!

I doubt it. Plus who needs a LF if we have our #4 hitter? Rather have Wright and Heisey/some combination of what we already have than Rolen/Francisco and Willingham (at a rate we cannot pay a FA) or whoever else is available.

757690
11-07-2011, 12:06 PM
Wright's not a cleanup hitter on a championship team. He may bounce back, but he hasn't been a dominant hitter in a few years.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2011, 01:27 PM
Wright's not a cleanup hitter on a championship team. He may bounce back, but he hasn't been a dominant hitter in a few years.

I disagree. His hitting took a plunge when he entered the black hole that is Citi Field, yet he still managed over an .800 OPS until this past season when he hit just under it. He was OPSing over .900 regularly at Shea which wasn't a hitters park itself. Move him to this park and division and see what happens.

RedsManRick
11-07-2011, 01:39 PM
Who is doing that? Whats wrong with thinking of ways to improve/upgrade? Or with having someone in case he can't go. But even if he does he doesn't fill the role for us as a #4 hitter Wright does and I think he'd be a much better #4 for us than any LF that we could get. He also fits this 2 year window. Rolen isn't dead but he might as well be as he isn't likely to help much.

I understand, but I question your last statement. Here's how the guys compare over the last 3 years.


Rolen Wright
2009 4.4 3.6
2010 4.9 4.0
2011 1.3 1.9

Wright has dealt with injuries too and even when healthy he's not been better than Rolen. And we're talking about a very significant salary addition; clearly Arroyo would have to be part of the deal. And while I'm not an Arroyo booster, it's not like we have pitching that can be counted on to fill those innings above replacement level.

There's a lot of grass-is-greener thinking that is required to get behind an idea like this. We have to assume that Rolen will never be healthy/effective again and/or that Wright is going to be fully healthy and bounce back to something like the player he was 4 years ago. Could that happen? Absolutely. Is that scenario the most likely one, I certainly don't think so. I think a reasonable projection puts Wright at a ~1-2 WAR upgrade at most; much less if you have any faith in our in house alternates at 3B should Rolen miss serious time again.

I'm with you. Wright is possibly the best option for a somewhat reasonable position player upgrade. But I think that misses the forest for the trees. If you can swing Arroyo and Rolen for Wright, I'd probably support that. But add a good prospect and I'm out.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2011, 02:07 PM
I understand, but I question your last statement. Here's how the guys compare over the last 3 years.


Rolen Wright
2009 4.4 3.6
2010 4.9 4.0
2011 1.3 1.9

Wright has dealt with injuries too and even when healthy he's not been better than Rolen. And when you're talking about a $15M salary on top of that (or a marginal increase of ~8MM if Rolen is included), it's just a silly idea.

There's a lot of grass-is-greener thinking that is required to get behind an idea like this. We have to assume that Rolen will never be healthy/effective again and that Wright is going to bounce back to the player he was 4 years ago. Could that happen? Absolutely. Is that scenario the most likely one, I certainly don't think so. I think a reasonable projection puts Wright at a ~1-2 WAR upgrade at most; much less if you have any faith in our in house alternates at 3B should Rolen miss serious time again.

I actually do think it's the most likely scenario. We know Citi Field has been a real pain for hitters especially in the power department. So I don't think it's fair to compare the 2 at all over that span. Yet Wright has still held his own pretty well w/ exception to this past season. If a physical reveals a major issue then well ya void the deal but otherwise I think it's a no brainer assuming the money can be worked out.

RedsManRick
11-07-2011, 03:15 PM
I actually do think it's the most likely scenario. We know Citi Field has been a real pain for hitters especially in the power department. So I don't think it's fair to compare the 2 at all over that span. Yet Wright has still held his own pretty well w/ exception to this past season. If a physical reveals a major issue then well ya void the deal but otherwise I think it's a no brainer assuming the money can be worked out.

This oversimplifies things a bit. Wright is actually a Votto-like hitter who derives a lot of his value from a high BABIP. But unlike Votto, he pops up on occasion. He's also regressed to more normal LD% levels, which should not be affected much by deep fences and wind patterns. Further, his K% has spiked notably since his peak.

To top it off, his defensive performance has regressed, as tends to happen to 3B pushing 30. The Fan Scouting Report puts him right in the middle of the pack defensively. UZR has him solidly below average. That's not park related. And when you look at Wright's ISO splits, you find that park has accounted for roughly 15 points of difference -- much less difference, surprisingly, than we saw when he was at Shea.

Don't get me wrong, I think Wright in GABP is a 5 win player, if healthy. But I think a combination of who the Reds already have is a 4 win player (we got 4.4 WAR from 3B last year even with the Rolen health issues).

This is not a guy doing the same thing but simply getting worse results. It's a guy who has notably declined in areas across the board. Is it all Citi's fault, with deeper fences causing a cascade effect? I suppose that's possible. But I would bet on it (e.g. make that assumption and give up big value for the chance).

I think people see those past numbers and just want to believe that he'll bounce right back to that despite some real evidence to the contrary. And on the flip side, they look at Rolen's issues last year and assume there's basically no chance he can give us 400 solid PA with plus defense -- to say nothing of Todd Frazier and Juan Fransisco.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2011, 04:41 PM
This oversimplifies things a bit. Wright is actually a Votto-like hitter who derives a lot of his value from a high BABIP. But unlike Votto, he pops up on occasion. He's also regressed to more normal LD% levels, which should not be affected much by deep fences and wind patterns. Further, his K% has spiked notably since his peak.

To top it off, his defensive performance has regressed, as tends to happen to 3B pushing 30. The Fan Scouting Report puts him right in the middle of the pack defensively. UZR has him solidly below average. That's not park related. And when you look at Wright's ISO splits, you find that park has accounted for roughly 15 points of difference -- much less difference, surprisingly, than we saw when he was at Shea.

Don't get me wrong, I think Wright in GABP is a 5 win player, if healthy. But I think a combination of who the Reds already have is a 4 win player (we got 4.4 WAR from 3B last year even with the Rolen health issues).

This is not a guy doing the same thing but simply getting worse results. It's a guy who has notably declined in areas across the board. Is it all Citi's fault, with deeper fences causing a cascade effect? I suppose that's possible. But I would bet on it (e.g. make that assumption and give up big value for the chance).

I think people see those past numbers and just want to believe that he'll bounce right back to that despite some real evidence to the contrary. And on the flip side, they look at Rolen's issues last year and assume there's basically no chance he can give us 400 solid PA with plus defense -- to say nothing of Todd Frazier and Juan Fransisco.

Given the fact that his decline has coincided with the teams move to Citi I would heavily lean the way of likely domino effect. Lack of production leads to confidence issues which leads to pressing and/or trying to change the way you approach the game etc. I could be wrong about that but I feel the risk is worth the reward because unlike many I don't have alot of confidence in Rolen/Francisco and although I like Frazier it's pretty apparent he isn't gonna be given his shot and he certainly has his flaws as well. I don't much care about overall WAR as much as I do about getting a good fit for what I think it is we need. We need a solid bat behind Votto and ahead of Bruce. And I think he can provide that and he is available, allegedly. As far as his defense well who knows but it can't be worse than some of the LF options being thrown around who aren't real likely to hit as well as him IMO.