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WMR
11-06-2011, 08:35 PM
Penn State’s insufficient action amid child sex allegations stunning

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_penn_state_child_sex_case_110511

traderumor
11-06-2011, 08:45 PM
Always tell the truth, tell it first, tell it all.....

Paterno and Tressel must have missed that training class.

MWM
11-06-2011, 09:21 PM
Yeah, this is really sad and difficult to believe happened at a place like Penn State. I remember Sandusky well as he was given much of the credit for the success in the Paterno era. I remember a spotlight on him ESPN did years ago. I was shocked to hear these allegations. The hammer should come down hard on anyone who knew something and didn't come forward right away. There's absolutely no excuse for that.

dabvu2498
11-06-2011, 09:25 PM
Amazing.

And Wetzel draws the proper conclusion... No one should be held blameless in this mess.

The Operator
11-07-2011, 01:17 AM
This is sickening on so many levels.

If this all turns out to be 100% true, Paterno needs to lose his job. Yesterday. And he can take those so-called university leaders with him.

My only question in this is - why didn't the graduate assistant go to the police himself when he realized Paterno and the rest were doing nothing about it?

Boston Red
11-07-2011, 04:06 AM
Eddie Robinson should get his record back.

Todd Gack
11-07-2011, 06:30 AM
This is sickening on so many levels.

If this all turns out to be 100% true, Paterno needs to lose his job. Yesterday. And he can take those so-called university leaders with him.

My only question in this is - why didn't the graduate assistant go to the police himself when he realized Paterno and the rest were doing nothing about it?

Have you ever lived in a college town? Let alone, a college town as big as Penn State?

cumberlandreds
11-07-2011, 10:02 AM
The Penn State AD and VP have re-signed due this scandal. Terribly despicable situation at Penn State. Joe Paterno may have been legally right but IMO he didn't do what was morally right. He should have been following to make sure at the least a thourough investigation was been done into these allegations. Paterno holds great power at PSU and could have put the pressure on the get things done.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=849&sid=2621390

The Operator
11-07-2011, 11:50 AM
Have you ever lived in a college town? Let alone, a college town as big as Penn State?I'm a grad student at the University of Kentucky at this very moment actually, so yea. Maybe not as big as Penn State, but I'd say Lexington qualifies as a "college town".

I like to believe that if I saw someone being raped with my own eyes I would go to the police about it, if I knew university officials were basically covering it up.

Caveat Emperor
11-07-2011, 04:12 PM
As sad as it would be to see such an amazing career end on such a note, Joe Paterno needs to either resign or be fired.

The fact that HE didn't go to the police after being told of what happened is sickening.

RFS62
11-07-2011, 04:16 PM
As sad as it would be to see such an amazing career end on such a note, Joe Paterno needs to either resign or be fired.

The fact that HE didn't go to the police after being told of what happened is sickening.


Exactly

George Anderson
11-07-2011, 04:53 PM
I think everyone knew coaching legends like Bob Knight and Woody Hayes would probally go out with some kind of controversy, but no one thought the same of Paterno.

BuckeyeRed27
11-07-2011, 04:58 PM
It's unfortunate that Paterno went to the AD and not the police with this and it's too bad that it seems nobody stepped up and "did the right thing". I'm really not sure what else to say about this at this point.

Hap
11-07-2011, 05:10 PM
And, let's not overlook the fact that Paterno KNEW that Mr. Sandusky was continuing to hold an office and retain FULL USE of the facilities. He HAD to have know it would happen again and again.

KronoRed
11-07-2011, 06:29 PM
Not only does Paterno need to go, so does the coach who first reported the incident.

'I told my boss' is no defense for not calling the police when you see a child being raped.

Razor Shines
11-07-2011, 08:23 PM
Have you ever lived in a college town? Let alone, a college town as big as Penn State?

I don't care. If a ten year old boy being raped isn't worth risking one's career or reputation over then that person is a POS.

I'm disgusted by all the people involved in the cover up. I can't believe we're wondering if Paterno will retire. He shouldn't be given the option to retire. Let's take everything we know about what rape does to a child's psyche and everything these boys have had to live with and compare that to whether or not the grown men who covered it up should be allowed to decide if they want to keep their jobs.

Caveat Emperor
11-07-2011, 08:45 PM
With all of the allegations, I also find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that Paterno and the Penn State athletic department didn't have some suspicion about Sandusky's proclivities regarding young children.

Dude was a serial pedophile -- when someone caught him in the act, the fact that nobody did any mental calculus and realized "Oh yeah, this guy's been hanging out with boys for a long time and lets them sleep at his house, etc." is shocking and appalling.

And, let's not lose sight of this fact -- there was absolutely no attempt to even ascertain the identity of the young boy who was raped. No officer was contacted to get his statement, no report was filed, no one ever bothered to see if he was OK or what his status was. This was swept quietly under the rug.

Sickening, all around.

cincrazy
11-07-2011, 10:42 PM
I find it humorous that Paterno was "shocked" by this news, and that they were all "fooled." Really? You barred this man from bringing children to the football facility, yet you say you didn't know the details of what happened in that shower? Just unbelievably mind-numbing. It almost makes me physically ill. I have a 10 year old little brother. If anyone ever put their hands on that child, I'd be spending the rest of my life behind bars.

dougdirt
11-07-2011, 10:55 PM
I find it humorous that Paterno was "shocked" by this news, and that they were all "fooled." Really? You barred this man from bringing children to the football facility, yet you say you didn't know the details of what happened in that shower? Just unbelievably mind-numbing. It almost makes me physically ill. I have a 10 year old little brother. If anyone ever put their hands on that child, I'd be spending the rest of my life behind bars.
I think a good lawyer could get you less than life with a temporary insanity plea.

But I agree with your line of thought here. It is an absolute joke that we are supposed to believe they were fooled.

Redsfaithful
11-07-2011, 10:57 PM
Not only does Paterno need to go, so does the coach who first reported the incident.

'I told my boss' is no defense for not calling the police when you see a child being raped.

Exactly, he seems to be flying under the radar here for reasons I don't understand. In his situation I'm pretty sure I would have done my best to put Sandusky in the hospital. To not even call the police is stunning. That so many people all the way up the chain of command didn't call police is really hard to believe.

There must have been a culture at Penn State to not report things, which is why I think this Deadspin piece is dead on:

http://deadspin.com/5857094/jerry-sandusky-and-the-culture-of-secrecy-at-penn-state

15fan
11-07-2011, 11:59 PM
Not only does Paterno need to go, so does the coach who first reported the incident.

'I told my boss' is no defense for not calling the police when you see a child being raped.

There's only one way to respond as a grown man if you walk into a room and see another grown man violating a child.

You immediately rip the guy off the kid, slam him head first into the wall, and don't stop beating him until he has stopped breathing.

KronoRed
11-08-2011, 01:58 AM
No doubt he should have tried to stop it right then and there.

Interesting that the guy went from Graduate Assistant to full time spot on the coaching staff the next year.

TeamSelig
11-08-2011, 08:47 AM
This whole situation is disgusting.

That graduate assistant just ran away? Now I've never been put in this situation, but if I walk in on a boy being raped, running away is not what I would be doing. It doesn't matter who was doing the raping, I don't care if it was the President of the United States.

Then PSU just allows this pedophile to continue on as if nothing had happened? Disgusting.

TeamSelig
11-08-2011, 08:48 AM
There's only one way to respond as a grown man if you walk into a room and see another grown man violating a child.

You immediately rip the guy off the kid, slam him head first into the wall, and don't stop beating him until he has stopped breathing.

+1

I am glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

TeamSelig
11-08-2011, 08:51 AM
Just to add more to this.... if the boy in this story was my son... and I found out someone had raped my son and someone had knowledge of this and didn't contact me or the authorities, I would either own that school or I would go on some crazy rampage.

bucksfan2
11-08-2011, 09:10 AM
I haven't read in depth on this whole situation. But from listening to the radio I get the feeling that Paterno reported the allegation to his AD. From that point the allegation would have needed to be reported to the authorities because the AD and VP (?) are being charged with lying to a grand jury. So in essence didn't this allegation proceed the right way but stalled at the grand jury because of perjury?

MWM
11-08-2011, 10:19 AM
Maybe from a strictly legal point of view. If his goal was to do just enough to stay out of legal trouble, then yes, the it was handled correctly. But from a doing the right thing perspective, I don't see any good explanation for nothing more happening than what happened. Like someone else mentioned, someone should have been pounding the pulpit and not standing for it and making sure it's stopped and dealt with. That clearly didn't happen. The fact that they didn't allow him to bring kids to the facilities tells you they knew something was up. I don't see how this has any ending but an ugly for JoePa. Just goes to show how easily a reputation built up over decades can come crashing down.

Roy Tucker
11-08-2011, 11:04 AM
Maybe from a strictly legal point of view. If his goal was to do just enough to stay out of legal trouble, then yes, the it was handled correctly. But from a doing the right thing perspective, I don't see any good explanation for nothing more happening than what happened. Like someone else mentioned, someone should have been pounding the pulpit and not standing for it and making sure it's stopped and dealt with. That clearly didn't happen. The fact that they didn't allow him to bring kids to the facilities tells you they knew something was up. I don't see how this has any ending but an ugly for JoePa. Just goes to show how easily a reputation built up over decades can come crashing down.

I agree. Particularly when its occurring under the umbrella of your football program. Legally, yeah, Paterno did what he was supposed to do. But if your moral compass points in the right direction, you take this to the mat and make sure the right thing gets done. Even if its nailing a long-time coach of yours to the cross.

One other thing I'll mention. Paterno is from the "Greatest Generation". I looked up his birthdate and he is only 2 years younger than my dad (who died in 1994). Not that we ever had lengthy conversations about it, but I know that the topic of homosexuality with my dad was just something that was implicitly wrong and wasn't talked about. And when it was, it was with words like queers and fags and all that and there was embarassment and shame associated with it. I have to think there is some of that still with Paterno.

KoryMac5
11-08-2011, 12:32 PM
As a Penn State fan I can honestly say it is time to clean house, from the President all the way down. This inaction that went on since 1994 is unacceptable and has tainted a very well run program, and a school that means so much to native Pennsylvanians. It's time for Joe to step aside.

Hoosier Red
11-08-2011, 12:43 PM
Not defending Paterno in any way, but rather understanding how he could have rationalized inaction.

You have to figure Jerry Sandusky is/was one of his closest friends. Can you imagine being told that your best friend is a monster? It's very easy to say that he should have done a number of things and undoubtedly he should have investigated further, tried to find out more, followed up. But try to imagine for a moment being told what by the Grad Asst. what he was told about your best friend. Could you possibly believe it? I mean fully believe it. Would you have the cajones to confront your "friend." To find out the whole thing was true?

He undoubtedly chose the easiest path out, and he deserves all the criticism that one can muster. But I have no doubt that he was in fact shocked when the full scope of the allegations were revealed. He's probably been in denial about it long before the grad assistant told him what he saw.

dabvu2498
11-08-2011, 01:20 PM
JoePa skipped his weekly presser.

It was painful to watch Matt Millen just now on ESPN.

Nothing but sadness to this whole scenario.

Stray
11-08-2011, 01:20 PM
This whole thing is just disgusting. I think a lot of people would agree that there's legal responsibilities, then moral responsibilities. If what we think we know is true, then Joe Paterno did not do enough. He's not in any legal troubles, but for a man of his position he did not do enough. To allow that trash to hang around their facilities for several years after just makes it worse on top of not going to the police.

Now Penn State has cancelled their press conference, where apparently Paterno was prepared to make a statement and answer questions, but who knows what's going on. And we have Matt Millen crying on ESPN. It's just a circus that needs to stop.

A statement needs to be made, and Paterno needs to be heard on why he did and didn't do certain things. Then the investigation by the police can do their thing and put those guilty in jail.

Stray
11-08-2011, 01:22 PM
Now the NYT is reporting Joe Pa is out at Penn State, could take weeks or days. Just said it live on SC.

BuckeyeRed27
11-08-2011, 02:16 PM
Now the NYT is reporting Joe Pa is out at Penn State, could take weeks or days. Just said it live on SC.

According to a few sources on Twitter (FWIW) the BOT voted him out and asked Patero to resign and he has refused to do so.

RiverRat13
11-08-2011, 02:23 PM
According to a few sources on Twitter (FWIW) the BOT voted him out and asked Patero to resign and he has refused to do so.

What would make anyone think this would make Paterno resign? Tom Bradley has been the de facto head coach for years while Paterno has sat up in the pressbox safely away from the real coaches, shamelessly still counting the wins to his own resume. JoePa thinks he has done no wrong in this situation. That stubborn old man ain't gonna go quietly.

I would guess he finishes the regular season but is out before the bowl game.

cincrazy
11-08-2011, 03:38 PM
I feel for those people such as Matt Millen. I can't imagine what emotions they're dealing with. The shame and embarrassment that they feel. I'm a Buckeye through and through, and the Tressel situation brought me to tears a few times while defending him. And I just can't even fathom the scenarios being reversed. When you believe in an institution with all of your heart and soul, and it betrays you, it's a bitter, hurtful feeling.

The house needs to be cleaned out at PSU. Everyone needs to go.

medford
11-08-2011, 03:43 PM
At this point, I don't think JoePa gets a say. There is no way they can have him coach again this season. Part of the coaches duty is to have press conferences after the game, the further the school distances themselves from Joepa at this point, the better off they are.

HotCorner
11-08-2011, 04:00 PM
After reading the grand jury report, I wonder how much and how long the PSU athletics department knew of allegations against Sandusky. These allegations go back as far as 1994. Sandusky was at a time the heir apparent to JoePa. But in 1999, he was informed that this was no longer the case. He retired the same year - according to Sandusky to spend more time with his Second Mile program. Ew. One has to wonder whether there was "too much smoke" regarding allegations against Sandusky so PSU (AD and JoePa) decided to pull the "heir apparent" head coach position knowing that this action would probably led to Sandusky's resignation.

Side note: Sandusky has an auto-biography. It's titled Touched. :barf:
http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575

Sea Ray
11-08-2011, 04:40 PM
I don't see Joe Paterno as the bad guy in all of this. He's paid to coach football. He's not supposed to know how to handle a sexual abuse case. He reported it to higher authorities and that's all I'd ask of him. This incident had very little to do with him except that it happened to occur in the showers that his team uses during the season. If this guy had chosen lacross showers to abuse kids would the lacross coach be drilled for not reporting it?

Paterno had very little to report to police. He didn't see anything. It was all heresay. The grad asst technically is the only one who could testify about this since he's the only one who could attest to what happened.

Ideally the University officials should have told the grad asst that they are going to report on it but it was ultimately up to the grad asst to cooperate with police.

We can't expect a 75 yr old ball coach to know the protocol for dealing with this. Paterno deserves better after all he's done to end his career like this.

BuckeyeRed27
11-08-2011, 04:53 PM
I don't see Joe Paterno as the bad guy in all of this. He's paid to coach football. He's not supposed to know how to handle a sexual abuse case. He reported it to higher authorities and that's all I'd ask of him. This incident had very little to do with him except that it happened to occur in the showers that his team uses during the season. If this guy had chosen lacross showers to abuse kids would the lacross coach be drilled for not reporting it?

Paterno had very little to report to police. He didn't see anything. It was all heresay. The grad asst technically is the only one who could testify about this since he's the only one who could attest to what happened.

Ideally the University officials should have told the grad asst that they are going to report on it but it was ultimately up to the grad asst to cooperate with police.

We can't expect a 75 yr old ball coach to know the protocol for dealing with this. Paterno deserves better after all he's done to end his career like this.

Are you paid to know how to handle a sexual abuse case? I know I'm not. You know who is? The police. If it was all hearsay that is for the police to determine, not Joe Paterno, or the AD, or the university president.

Stray
11-08-2011, 04:55 PM
I don't see Joe Paterno as the bad guy in all of this. He's paid to coach football. He's not supposed to know how to handle a sexual abuse case. He reported it to higher authorities and that's all I'd ask of him. This incident had very little to do with him except that it happened to occur in the showers that his team uses during the season. If this guy had chosen lacross showers to abuse kids would the lacross coach be drilled for not reporting it?

Paterno had very little to report to police. He didn't see anything. It was all heresay. The grad asst technically is the only one who could testify about this since he's the only one who could attest to what happened.

Ideally the University officials should have told the grad asst that they are going to report on it but it was ultimately up to the grad asst to cooperate with police.

We can't expect a 75 yr old ball coach to know the protocol for dealing with this. Paterno deserves better after all he's done to end his career like this.

When you are told about an incident this horrific how can you not notify the police? I get that protocol is to report it up the totem pole, but when it became evident that nothing was going to happen why wouldn't he inquire more into what happened?

I know he's just a football coach, but he's a guy that's sat in parents living rooms for decades selling them on why they should send their kids to play for him. There is a responsibility above and beyond just what it written in the law here. Then to hear what he heard several years ago and not object to Sandusky remaining around their program and in their facilities is mind numbing.

So to me it comes down to common sense. When you hear the words 'child' 'rape' 'lockerroom' 'Sandusky' in any order how is the natural response to NOT contact the police? Who cares about protocol...these are horrific allegations and have been known about for over a decade.

George Anderson
11-08-2011, 05:07 PM
.

We can't expect a 75 yr old ball coach to know the protocol for dealing with this. .



Regardless of how old he is, the fact that Joe Pa reported it but never followed through with it is flat out wrong and he should be forced out. Using age here to excuse a cover up is wrong.

Besides Paterno still let Sandusky use facilities with the boys from his group after this incident. Joe Pa knew this guy and his sickness but still let him come around the program.

Sea Ray
11-08-2011, 05:08 PM
Are you paid to know how to handle a sexual abuse case? I know I'm not. You know who is? The police. If it was all hearsay that is for the police to determine, not Joe Paterno, or the AD, or the university president.

Nobody has to determine whether it was heresay. It's straightforward. Paterno's testimony that sexual abuse happened is heresay because he didn't see it. We can argue over whether he should have reported it but it's not debatable whether it was heresay. Joe Pa did not see the crime being committed

Sea Ray
11-08-2011, 05:12 PM
Regardless of how old he is, the fact that Joe Pa reported it but never followed through with it is flat out wrong and he should be forced out. Using age here to excuse a cover up is wrong.

Besides Paterno still let Sandusky use facilities with the boys from his group after this incident. Joe Pa knew this guy and his sickness but still let him come around the program.

I got the impression that Sandusky was not allowed to do that:


Curley later met with Sandusky and told him he was no longer allowed to bring children onto the Penn State campus. He forwarded the report on to university president Graham Spanier, who approved of Sandusky’s ban from bringing children onto campus and himself never reported the incident to police.

George Anderson
11-08-2011, 05:12 PM
Nobody has to determine whether it was heresay. It's straightforward. Paterno's testimony that sexual abuse happened is heresay because he didn't see it. We can argue over whether he should have reported it but it's not debatable whether it was heresay. Joe Pa did not see the crime being committed

For years during the football season Paterno spent more time with Sandusky than he did with his own wife. Paterno being around this guy as much as he had been had to have suspicion of his behavior. Let's not act like Paterno was legitimately shocked when this recent scandal came out.

Tadasimha
11-08-2011, 05:16 PM
College football has become so huge that the coaches, staff and players assume they are somehow not subject to the law. Not just PSU and Paterno but ALL of them have become these bloated entities that think it's all about them and the rest of the world isn't important. Imagine the public outrage if this had been a major corporation: people would be selling stock and boycotting products.

I can only hope that this starts the backlash that college football (and college sports in general, imho) deserves and we see the ratings drop, the money go away and people stop caring more about football than education.

Doubt it will happen, though.

Roy Tucker
11-08-2011, 05:22 PM
Grand jury report

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/264787/grand-jury-report.pdf

In a court of law, Paterno is blameless. An assistant football coach was engaged in an illegal sexual act in the football facilities and that act was winessed by another assistant football coach. That coach told Paterno and Paterno reported it up the management food chain. It was the food chain that lied and obfuscated and killed the story.

But this all happened under the umbrella of the football program (the word "football" appears a lot in the above paragraph). And Paterno is the head of that program. It's difficult to believe that he didn't know this incident had gotten stonewalled and squashed. And that's where I have issues with him.

Like I tell my kids, real life moral choices aren't good vs. evil. It's usually doing good vs. doing nothing. It's often easiest to avert your eyes and pretend you didn't see it. Or expect someone else to do something. Paterno did nothing. And I think that was a bad choice. Particularly when he posits himself as a very moral guy. It's his program and he needed to make sure the right thing happened. And he didn't.

George Anderson
11-08-2011, 05:27 PM
I got the impression that Sandusky was not allowed to do that:

The reality is Sandusky should have been banned from campus himself. Paterno has more control than anyone at PSU and if he wanted someone banned then Sandusky would have been banned. It is bad enough Paterno didn't push harder for an investigation but to let Sandusky still lurk around the campus is insane.

Puffy
11-08-2011, 05:33 PM
For years during the football season Paterno spent more time with Sandusky than he did with his own wife. Paterno being around this guy as much as he had been had to have suspicion of his behavior.

I am sorry to be rude about this - but give me a freakin break!

How many instances over the years have wifes of serial killers or pedophiles not known what was going on. And now you want to say that a football coach who spends time around another football coach and 18-23 year olds (who Sandusky was not attracted do as the pervert liked 8-12 year old boys) is supposed to have been suspicious because he hung out with him???? Where is the outrage at Sandusky's 6 adopted children then? They had to of known their father was a pedophile. Or Sandusky's wife - she had to of known and never did anything! Or Sandusky's parents - they spent more time with him than Paterno and they never reported him either. For shame!

Let's be clear - the only moral outrage Paterno deserves is that rumors were out there since about 1998. Then Grad Assistant comes to Paterno and gives instance. That's where Paterno needed to be more proactive - when rumor became reality. On one hand I clearly see Sea Ray's point. Paterno going to police was only as strong as Grad Assistant going with him. If Paterno went to police and Grad Assistant refused there is nothing, I repeat nothing, police could do about this. They cannot (and any police officer on here can either confirm or deny this) do anything based on third party report with no witness. On other hand, this pervert was preying on young boys and Paterno had well founded evidence. Morally he needed to protect those boys.

So I see both sides of argument. And after letting sit in for 24 hours I am now more in latter camp. Morally he needed to do more.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 05:37 PM
I don't see Joe Paterno as the bad guy in all of this. He's paid to coach football. He's not supposed to know how to handle a sexual abuse case. He reported it to higher authorities and that's all I'd ask of him. This incident had very little to do with him except that it happened to occur in the showers that his team uses during the season. If this guy had chosen lacross showers to abuse kids would the lacross coach be drilled for not reporting it?

Paterno had very little to report to police. He didn't see anything. It was all heresay. The grad asst technically is the only one who could testify about this since he's the only one who could attest to what happened.

Ideally the University officials should have told the grad asst that they are going to report on it but it was ultimately up to the grad asst to cooperate with police.

We can't expect a 75 yr old ball coach to know the protocol for dealing with this. Paterno deserves better after all he's done to end his career like this.

If Paterno never saw the guy again, I could be on your side about this. But he was around campus, with children, for years following the original report. To suggest that Paterno didn't see him around campus, and he was reportedly on campus as recently as last week, is a big red flag that "no one did anything about what was told to me" and that you need to then go a step further and confront the person or go to the police. Period. End of discussion. To do anything less is cowardly and despicable.

Sea Ray
11-08-2011, 05:48 PM
If Paterno never saw the guy again, I could be on your side about this. But he was around campus, with children, for years following the original report. To suggest that Paterno didn't see him around campus, and he was reportedly on campus as recently as last week, is a big red flag that "no one did anything about what was told to me" and that you need to then go a step further and confront the person or go to the police. Period. End of discussion. To do anything less is cowardly and despicable.

When did Pres Spanier ban him from campus?

George Anderson
11-08-2011, 05:51 PM
I am sorry to be rude about this - but give me a freakin break!

How many instances over the years have wifes of serial killers or pedophiles not known what was going on. And now you want to say that a football coach who spends time around another football coach and 18-23 year olds (who Sandusky was not attracted do as the pervert liked 8-12 year old boys) is supposed to have been suspicious because he hung out with him???? Where is the outrage at Sandusky's 6 adopted children then? They had to of known their father was a pedophile. Or Sandusky's wife - she had to of known and never did anything! Or Sandusky's parents - they spent more time with him than Paterno and they never reported him either. For shame!

.

Sandusky numerous times had sexual relations in his home with the boys while his wife was there. You are kidding yourself if you don't think she knew. I can see her saying "I wonder where Jerry is??" "Oh he must be downstairs sleeping with his 10 year old friend" I guess she had no cause for concern there.

When I was growing up there were 3 individuals that were eventually convicted of child molestation. When all 3 were convicted no one and I mean no one was suprised. Child molesters as a whole from my experiences do a very poor job of hiding their ways.

Razor Shines
11-08-2011, 06:16 PM
I don't see Joe Paterno as the bad guy in all of this. He's paid to coach football. He's not supposed to know how to handle a sexual abuse case. He reported it to higher authorities and that's all I'd ask of him. This incident had very little to do with him except that it happened to occur in the showers that his team uses during the season. If this guy had chosen lacross showers to abuse kids would the lacross coach be drilled for not reporting it?

Paterno had very little to report to police. He didn't see anything. It was all heresay. The grad asst technically is the only one who could testify about this since he's the only one who could attest to what happened.

Ideally the University officials should have told the grad asst that they are going to report on it but it was ultimately up to the grad asst to cooperate with police.

We can't expect a 75 yr old ball coach to know the protocol for dealing with this. Paterno deserves better after all he's done to end his career like this.

Um no he doesn't. You know who deserved better? The boys that were raped by this monster. They deserved better than Paterno and these other spineless bastards saying "well I told my boss".

Also you're ignoring that it's extremely likely that Paterno knew about the previous allegations.

Paterno's not the worst guy in this but being a notch below a child rapist isnt something to be proud of.

BuckeyeRed27
11-08-2011, 06:30 PM
Um no he doesn't. You know who deserved better? The boys that were raped by this monster. They deserved better than Paterno and these other spineless bastards saying "well I told my boss".

Also you're ignoring that it's extremely likely that Paterno knew about the previous allegations.

Paterno's not the worst guy in this but being a notch below a child rapist isnt something to be proud of.

Joe Paterno is many many many notches below a child rapist. He should not be labeled in that ocean, let alone that boat. He made a horrible mistake and I'll bet he'll say as much in the coming days.

Reading the Harrisburg story with the interview from the mother is completely heart breaking. One of the boys was abused for 4 more years after this incident occured and it could have been stopped.

KoryMac5
11-08-2011, 06:53 PM
Um no he doesn't. You know who deserved better? The boys that were raped by this monster. They deserved better than Paterno and these other spineless bastards saying "well I told my boss".

Also you're ignoring that it's extremely likely that Paterno knew about the previous allegations.

Paterno's not the worst guy in this but being a notch below a child rapist isnt something to be proud of.

I agree Paterno needed to do more but to label him a notch below a molester is being extreme. I need to hear from Paterno myself to see what exactly was going on in his mind when he decided to report this incident to just the AD. I also need to here from the Grad Asst as well as to what he told Joe as well. Penn State needs to fire the President and ask Joe to resign, then appoint and independent investigator to look into what the heck happened here.

Sandusky had been under investigation for close to 20 years, why the heck didn't Penn State Police ask for additional help with this case. I am sure campus police don't handle many molestation cases.

Dark Days Ahead for PSU!

Sea Ray
11-08-2011, 06:57 PM
Um no he doesn't. You know who deserved better? The boys that were raped by this monster. They deserved better than Paterno and these other spineless bastards saying "well I told my boss".

Also you're ignoring that it's extremely likely that Paterno knew about the previous allegations.

Paterno's not the worst guy in this but being a notch below a child rapist isnt something to be proud of.

We can only deal in facts and we don't have the facts that Paterno knew about previous accusations.

Paterno reported it and that's fine with me. If this guy was still on his staff, I'd feel differently. Like I said, if this incident had happened in a dorm rather than the football team's showers, Paterno would not have had any involvement. It's up to the PSU officials to report it and I'm glad those heads are going to roll. It doesn't involve Paterno unless more evidence comes to light

WMR
11-08-2011, 07:01 PM
Do you think Paterno would have handled this any differently if it were one of his grandkids?

Razor Shines
11-08-2011, 07:01 PM
Joe Paterno is many many many notches below a child rapist. He should not be labeled in that ocean, let alone that boat. He made a horrible mistake and I'll bet he'll say as much in the coming days.

.

I'm sorry but think of the damage this has surely done to those boys. I don't know if you have kids but lets say this was your son. And someone very credible told me what this GA witnessed being done to your son and I didn't do anything and continued to work with the perpetrator. How do you feel about me now? That's more than a mistake, IMO.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 07:11 PM
When did Pres Spanier ban him from campus?

Never. He did ban him from using the facilities as a part of his CHILD OUTREACH program 3 years after the initially reported incident.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 07:13 PM
It's up to the PSU officials to report it and I'm glad those heads are going to roll. It doesn't involve Paterno unless more evidence comes to light

No, this is where you are completely wrong. It is up to anyone with knowledge of it to report it. Period. This isn't petty theft. This is child rape.

RFS62
11-08-2011, 07:16 PM
Do you think Paterno would have handled this any differently if it were one of his grandkids?



Bingo!

He would have torn his head off. There would have been no police report required.

As good a man as he seemed to be for all his years in the public, this is how he'll be remembered, and as sad as that is, he deserves it.

He's a teacher. He sat back and allowed the AD and his fellow weasels take care of it and still allowed this POS to be around the program.

He has nobody to blame but himself for his gutless lack of followup.

KoryMac5
11-08-2011, 07:17 PM
I'm sorry but think of the damage this has surely done to those boys. I don't know if you have kids but lets say this was your son. And someone very credible told me what this GA witnessed being done to your son and I didn't do anything and continued to work with the perpetrator. How do you feel about me now? That's more than a mistake, IMO.

Paterno did do something he reported it to his bosses like the statute states he should have. His failure is not following up with those two bosses to see what was happening with Sandusky. My wife and I are both mandated reporters and both of us would have followed up the next day. Believe me I am disappointed in Paterno's inaction but I am not ready to make Paterno into a monster. He is a sad old man who was paralyzed by inaction and that is something he will have to live with for the rest of his life.

BuckeyeRed27
11-08-2011, 07:22 PM
I'm sorry but think of the damage this has surely done to those boys. I don't know if you have kids but lets say this was your son. And someone very credible told me what this GA witnessed being done to your son and I didn't do anything and continued to work with the perpetrator. How do you feel about me now? That's more than a mistake, IMO.

I totally agree with everything you said. I don't have kids, but I imagine if I did my thoughts would be pretty close to homicidal. JoePa is going to pay for the decisions he made and his legacy will forever be tarnished.

That being said I still do not agree with lumping him in with Sandusky. What that man did is unspeakable and far more outrage should be sent his way than at PSU and Joe Paterno.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 07:53 PM
Just getting worse:
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/exclusive:-victims-double-in-penn-state-case-110811


UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. - Fox 29 has learned the number of child-abuse in the Penn State sex-abuse scandal involving ex-coach Jerry Sandusky has more than doubled in the past day, and is closer to 20 victims.

The Operator
11-08-2011, 08:18 PM
I'm not one for suing people over everything, but this is one case where I hope the victims and their families that were affected by all of this end up owning Happy Valley. For a supposed institution of higher education and learning to know about something like this and sit on their hands and let it happen - it's beyond comprehension. They are cowards, enablers, aiders and abettors in all of this. I hope everyone involved with this pays the utmost price.

Stray
11-08-2011, 08:21 PM
This whole situation is crazy. There's also a rather large gathering outside of Paterno's house right now in a show of support from students.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2445dag.jpg

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 08:24 PM
This whole situation is crazy. There's also a rather large gathering outside of Paterno's house right now in a show of support from students.


Idiots. All of them. I simply can't get supporting him.

Stray
11-08-2011, 08:26 PM
Yeah I don't get it either. I'm more curious to hear what he has to say, and why Penn State didn't want him to say it.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 08:28 PM
Yeah I don't get it either. I'm more curious to hear what he has to say, and why Penn State didn't want him to say it.

I am just trying to figure out why he lets Penn State dictate what he says, especially at this point in the game. For him to say that he wanted to answer questions, but couldn't, is horse crap. I saw him walk to his car. No one had a gun to his head. He could have answered some questions instead of saying "I can't answer questions at this time" over and over.

Stray
11-08-2011, 08:33 PM
My initial reaction when I heard that Joe Paterno was prepared to answer questions on the issue but Penn State cancelled the press conference was that it was really JoePa who wasn't ready for the press conference. Who really knows though...which is why he needs to address this stuff soon. The longer it goes the more people will speculate.

Apparently he addressed the students tonight. He opened his window and in tears said

'No matter what happens to some people I'm proud of you'"
"We're always going to be Penn State, regardless of what happens to certain people. We're Penn State. I'm proud of you."
"I've always been proud of you. Cheer our football team on Saturday, alright? Beat Nebraska."

Those quotes are just weird.

1990REDS
11-08-2011, 09:10 PM
Idiots. All of them. I simply can't get supporting him.

Eh, There 18-21 year old college kids. The most important things to them are beer, chasing skirt, and football Saturdays. Plus I would assume most of them dont have children either. Im sure in a couple years after they have done some "growing up" they will look back with a what was I thinking attitude. At least I hope so.

Hoosier Red
11-08-2011, 09:14 PM
Do you think Paterno would have handled this any differently if it were one of his grandkids?

Of course he would have handled it differently. But that's pretty much an impossible standard to set. Are you as outraged by a shooting downtown as you would be if it was your wife?

Like I said, Paterno certainly deserves his share of blame. But it's hard to not at least empathize with him for believing the "problem had been taken care of."

"It was a terrible misunderstanding, we won't let Jerry bring kids on campus any more, that will fix it."

Of course from 20,000 feet above this seems preposterous, but you'd be surprised how much denial you're capable of when someone you're close to continues to do wrong.

Again, imagine it was your best friend who was accused of this. Because you can't in any way rationalize what would drive a perv like Sandusky, you simply can't imagine this is true.

This of course doesn't excuse Paterno failing to do more than the absolute minimum. But let's not act like by not acting Paterno somehow wanted these terrible things to happen.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 09:25 PM
Like I said, Paterno certainly deserves his share of blame. But it's hard to not at least empathize with him for believing the "problem had been taken care of."


Again though, I can't empathize with the situation given that no one in their right mind thinks the problem has been taken care of and continues to see that person around the facilities with children (he was banned from using the facilities three years after the reported incident). You can't simply convince me that someone of sound mind can put "I saw him raping a child" and then seeing that person around, even without children, much less with them, and thinking "the problem has been taken care of".

Hoosier Red
11-08-2011, 09:42 PM
I don't think it's a "right mind" thing. In fact with someone who you're close to, right mind is out the window.

I think because the act is so disgusting, and so out of the bounds of "right mind" it's hard to know what I would think. I simply don't think I could believe that someone I knew, someone that I loved would be capable of such an awful act.

The fault with Paterno is to not see past his friendship, to not take it out of his own hands and make sure it was put in the hands of someone who was qualified to handle it.

WMR
11-08-2011, 10:15 PM
I don't care what standard you use. Paterno failed that kid and many other children based on his inaction especially in light of his moral obligation and what I would hope any man would view as his moral obligation in such a situation.

savafan
11-08-2011, 10:30 PM
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

~ Edmund Burke

Scrap Irony
11-08-2011, 10:41 PM
Paterno should be fired.

What he didn't do is inexcusable.

Hoosier Red
11-08-2011, 11:00 PM
I don't care what standard you use. Paterno failed that kid and many other children based on his inaction especially in light of his moral obligation and what I would hope any man would view as his moral obligation in such a situation.

I agree with that. But just as it's easy to point out that Paterno didn't act as though it were his child, it's hard to truly put yourself in his shoes and have a friend be accused of such disgusting things.

WMR
11-08-2011, 11:33 PM
Now they're saying over 20 victims have now contacted authorities and as many as 8 Penn State coaches may have known of these allegations...

Penn State trustees considering canceling remaining games? (rumor)

savafan
11-08-2011, 11:46 PM
If at all possible, this just got weirder:

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=14905668&sid=3029941&p=3


The prosecutor who decided to not pursue sex abuse charges against former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky more than a decade ago, despite an alleged confession, is at the center of a missing persons mystery that has enraptured middle Pennsylvania for years.

Ray Gricar served as the district attorney for Pennsylvania's Centre County in 1998 when Sandusky was accused of sexually abusing several boys. After an extensive investigation, which included testimony by two law enforcement officers that they had overheard Sandusky admitting to showering with multiple young boys, Gricar decided no criminal charges would be filed, according to recent court documents. Sandusky retired the next year.

Then, in April 2005, Gricar disappeared.

His car was found abandoned in a Lewisburg, Pa., parking lot and his laptop's harddrive was recovered from the nearby Susquehannna River, but there was no other trace of Gricar. No clues could be gleaned from the severely damaged harddrive and despite a six year investigation that involved the FBI and international help, police have as little an idea today about what happened to the former DA as they did then.

"We literally used every single resource, national and international," Bellefonte, Pa., police chief Shawn Weaver told ABC News today. "This is baffling. He literally just disappeared off the face of the earth."

In July this year, Gricar was officially declared dead, though Weaver said the investigation into his disappearance is ongoing and new leads continue to emerge.

cincrazy
11-08-2011, 11:48 PM
Joe Paterno screwed up. Big time. But he's not a monster. We simply don't know all of the facts to speculate on so much of this. We don't know what he was told, we don't know what Curley told Paterno, etc. To assume anything is dangerous at this point.

As I said, EVERYONE should go at PSU. Including Joe Paterno. But that has less to do with Paterno being the devil, and more to do with that university needing a clean slate.

jojo
11-08-2011, 11:51 PM
Joe should go.

savafan
11-08-2011, 11:56 PM
Statement by The Pennsylvania State University Board of Trustees

http://live.psu.edu/story/56285

savafan
11-09-2011, 12:03 AM
A special committee = swift and decisive action?

Disappointing.

Stray
11-09-2011, 12:09 AM
Right now it's pretty obvious that Paterno is guilty of not doing enough. I'm willing to hold out any real harsh opinions on him until we hear from him what actually happened.

They're saying Penn State wants to hush his side of the story up because of the potential civil lawsuits they're going to be looking at, and how additional information out there is just going to cost them more money. Since they're going to cut ties with him anyway, JoePa should setup a press conference on his own and let everyone know what happened.

savafan
11-09-2011, 12:14 AM
Reports coming in right now that students are rioting in support of Paterno. All available state troopers have been called in to the area.

How can PSU football survive this? What recruit would want to go there after this?

Stray
11-09-2011, 12:15 AM
I'm not a parent, but I can't imagine there's many Moms and Dads that would like the idea of their kid going to play for that program right now.

cincrazy
11-09-2011, 12:16 AM
Wow. All hell is breaking loose in Happy Valley. This football program may be on the verge of the death penalty, but in a completely different fashion than what the NCAA could ever drop on them.

Who on Earth would want to replace Paterno after this mess?

savafan
11-09-2011, 12:26 AM
It's a little bit late, but the police have finally been called to Penn State

http://a.yfrog.com/img740/729/l0qbt.jpg

https://p.twimg.com/Adx9al4CQAITUnQ.jpg:large

http://a.yfrog.com/img736/7369/45mqw.jpg

Razor Shines
11-09-2011, 12:27 AM
Joe Paterno screwed up. Big time. But he's not a monster. We simply don't know all of the facts to speculate on so much of this. We don't know what he was told, we don't know what Curley told Paterno, etc. To assume anything is dangerous at this point.

As I said, EVERYONE should go at PSU. Including Joe Paterno. But that has less to do with Paterno being the devil, and more to do with that university needing a clean slate.

If the story is true about what the GA told him in 2002 then he has no excuses, no rationalizing it away. He may not be a monster but he's morally corrupt and IMO despicable. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm sitting in judgement of him but there's no excuse for not making sure. This "what if it was one of your closest friends?" argument doesn't work. If it was my friend and I did nothing then shame on me.

If its true he doesn't deserve the opportunity to leave on his own terms.

cincrazy
11-09-2011, 01:04 AM
If the story is true about what the GA told him in 2002 then he has no excuses, no rationalizing it away. He may not be a monster but he's morally corrupt and IMO despicable. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm sitting in judgement of him but there's no excuse for not making sure. This "what if it was one of your closest friends?" argument doesn't work. If it was my friend and I did nothing then shame on me.

If its true he doesn't deserve the opportunity to leave on his own terms.

Look, I totally agree with you. Let's make that clear. I've got a 10 year old little brother, so I'm particularly sensitive to this situation. I just want to reserve judgment until I hear more.

RedsBaron
11-09-2011, 07:58 AM
Joe Paterno has always been the one college football coach whom I admired, someone who seemed to have his priorities in order. I cannot conceive of any acceptable excuse for his evident failure to act in this matter. He should resign.

RFS62
11-09-2011, 10:01 AM
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

~ Edmund Burke


Paterno should be fired.

What he didn't do is inexcusable.


Joe Paterno has always been the one college football coach whom I admired, someone who seemed to have his priorities in order. I cannot conceive of any acceptable excuse for his evident failure to act in this matter. He should resign.


All of the above. The biggest and most disgusting scandal in NCAA history will be Paterno's scarlet letter for all time. And he deserves it.

He's certainly not alone when it comes to assigning responsibility for this tragedy. But he's the man in charge of the program which his best friend destroyed.

MWM
11-09-2011, 10:02 AM
These students are embarrassing themselves and their university. This whole thing is just sad on so many levels.

And what happens to the football program seems so trivial, and deserved, that I'm not even sure it should be discussed, but since it's been brought up I do agree with what others have already said. This is the end of the Penn State football program. No one is going to want to coach there and I can't imagine anyone worthy of a big time program will have any interest in going there. They deserve it and I won't shed a tear for them, but I do think this is the end... at least for quite some time.

Some have questioned whether or not JoePa staying around all these years was selfish and egotistical. But it was Joe Paterno, so he got the benefit of every doubt and his character and motives were never that seriously questioned. But the fact that he seems to be resisting and not doing what's obviously in the school's best interest and immediately stepping down says a lot, IMO. I wonder how much we really knew about the guy all these years.

redsfan30
11-09-2011, 10:56 AM
The AP is reporting Joe Paterno is retiring at the end of the season.

Personally, I will be shocked if the University lets him coach another game.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 11:21 AM
No, this is where you are completely wrong. It is up to anyone with knowledge of it to report it. Period. This isn't petty theft. This is child rape.

Paterno did exactly what he should have when he heard about it: He reported it to authorities at the University. At that point he moved on. The villans here are first the guy who witnessed it,then his Dad, then the PSU President, the AD and Paterno is way down the list.

This guy has had a spotless record for "forever". It's not right that this should bring down his career such that it is and stain his legacy forever just because all these other folks didn't do the right thing. It wasn't incumbant upon Paterno to report it to police.

redsfandan
11-09-2011, 11:24 AM
My only question in this is - why didn't the graduate assistant go to the police himself when he realized Paterno and the rest were doing nothing about it?


Have you ever lived in a college town? Let alone, a college town as big as Penn State?


I'm a grad student at the University of Kentucky at this very moment actually, so yea. Maybe not as big as Penn State, but I'd say Lexington qualifies as a "college town".

I like to believe that if I saw someone being raped with my own eyes I would go to the police about it, if I knew university officials were basically covering it up.

State College, PA is on a completely different level compared to Lexington, KY. A college town is dominated economically and demographically by the presence of a college. The population of State College is pretty much composed of people that are either Penn State students, Penn State employees, people who work at businesses that are dependent on the presence of Penn State, or young kids or elderly. If Penn State wasn't there there'd barely be anyone there at all. The same can't be said about Lexington.

Oxford, OH might be the closest thing around here that's a similar "college town". But, even with Miami University there's differences. Enrollment at Miami is less and Oxford is smaller than State College, there isn't an overwhelmingly popular sports team at Miami, and you can drive from Oxford to Cincinnati or Dayton in an hour or less. State College is in the middle of nowhere.

The combination of a town that's dominated by the presence of the school and the seclusion, given the location, probably contributed to the cloud of secrecy regarding a scandal involving the extremely popular sports team. There's probably not many other schools where something like this would've stayed a secret for so long, no matter what the coaches and school did, or didn't do, about the rumors and allegations.

cumberlandreds
11-09-2011, 11:26 AM
The AP is reporting that Paterno is going to step down at the end of the season. You really wonder if will stay that long.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=849&sid=2625726

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 11:29 AM
I don't care what standard you use. Paterno failed that kid and many other children based on his inaction especially in light of his moral obligation and what I would hope any man would view as his moral obligation in such a situation.

Paterno himself is a victim here. If the University had handled it properly--reported it to police--no one would be criticizing Paterno today. They'd be praising him for how he handled it and that he did what Jim Tressel didn't. Paterno was let down by the higher ups at the University. I feel sorry for the guy. I really do

George Anderson
11-09-2011, 11:32 AM
. I wonder how much we really knew about the guy all these years.

What I found disturbing is last night JoePa pretty much had a pep rally outside his house. He came out to address and media and students and shouted "we will fight this" and then started the "We are...Penn State" chant.

Lets see, my career and my legacy is in ruins, little boys were raped and I turned a blind eye to it but instead of showing a little bit of remorse I am going to go outside my home and lead a pep rally.:eek:

A few weeks ago I really wanted to go down to IU to watch the Penn State/IU game. I knew the game would likely be lopsided but one of the things kinda on my bucket list was to see a game coached by Paterno. I always admired Paterno because he seemed to be the upmost in character and integrity. It appears I was fooled or senility has crept in to this 85 year old man.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 11:39 AM
Joe Paterno has always been the one college football coach whom I admired, someone who seemed to have his priorities in order. I cannot conceive of any acceptable excuse for his evident failure to act in this matter. He should resign.

So you think he should lose his job over this? I don't think he violated any terms of his contract. Should everyone who had knowledge of this pervert's activities lose their jobs?

Some people are just out for blood here and mass firings aren't going to help these abused boys. That said I do think the guy who witnessed it, the AD and the Pres should be fired but right now the whole football program and a good bit of the Univ are before the firing squad and I don't think that's right

redsfan30
11-09-2011, 11:41 AM
Should everyone who had knowledge of this pervert's activities lose their jobs?

Yes.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 11:43 AM
Yes.

I think that's pretty extreme and you're creating a lot more victims. Do we really need more victims? If you include everyone who had knowledge you're not only including the obvious suspects but you're including wives and others close to them.

jojo
11-09-2011, 11:45 AM
Yes.

Heck yes.

A coach is observed sexually assaulting a ten year old in the team's locker room and he's allowed to even walk into the facility the next day?

That he's allowed to still coach is mind boggling.

Roy Tucker
11-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Paterno himself is a victim here. If the University had handled it properly--reported it to police--no one would be criticizing Paterno today. They'd be praising him for how he handled it and that he did what Jim Tressel didn't. Paterno was let down by the higher ups at the University. I feel sorry for the guy. I really do

So, an assistant coach comes to you and tells you he winessed another assistant coach having anal sex with a 10 yr. old boy in your football locker room's shower. So, you report it up the management chain. And when the management chain fails you, you throw your hands up and say "gee, I did everything I could, oh well"?

I mean really? You just walk away?

If it were someone witnessed a shoplifting or drinking underage or something with a little less teeth, I could understand that attitude. But we're talking an extremely serious crime against a child with a lot of emotional punch. Pretty darn serious stuff. I just don't know how you can turn a blind eye to that. I really don't.

bucksfan2
11-09-2011, 11:49 AM
Paterno did exactly what he should have when he heard about it: He reported it to authorities at the University. At that point he moved on. The villans here are first the guy who witnessed it,then his Dad, then the PSU President, the AD and Paterno is way down the list.

This guy has had a spotless record for "forever". It's not right that this should bring down his career such that it is and stain his legacy forever just because all these other folks didn't do the right thing. It wasn't incumbant upon Paterno to report it to police.

The more I think about the situation the more I agree with this thinking. I try to imagine what I would have done in that situation. The coach who witnessed it was a 28 year old man at that time. I think I would have done my best to stop it but I can't put myself in that situation. I also think that while many people think Paterno should have done more, he did what he was legally required to do. We also don't know if he followed up with the AD or President. I do know that if the AD or President did the right think then Joe wouldn't be in this situation, Penn State wouldn't be in this situation.

What I find disappointing is the media's coverage of this incident. They won't stop until they ruin both Joe Pa and Penn State football. Very few of them are talking about the actual victims in the case or the disturbing events that Sandusky committed, they are bringing their lynches and going after Joe. The sad thing to me is that once Joe steps down and PSU football is ruined the national media will turn their focus elsewhere and leave the university in ruins. Often times we tend to project moral responsibility on others while we don't hold that same for ourselves.

RFS62
11-09-2011, 11:50 AM
So, an assistant coach comes to you and tells you he winessed another assistant coach having anal sex with a 10 yr. old boy in your football locker room's shower. So, you report it up the management chain. And when the management chain fails you, you throw your hands up and say "gee, I did everything I could, oh well"?

I mean really? You just walk away?

If it were someone witnessed a shoplifting or drinking underage or something with a little less teeth, I could understand that attitude. But we're talking an extremely serious crime against a child with a lot of emotional punch. Pretty darn serious stuff. I just don't know how you can turn a blind eye to that. I really don't.



No kidding. This is the no brainer of all time.

redsfan30
11-09-2011, 11:51 AM
I think that's pretty extreme and you're creating a lot more victims. Do we really need more victims? If you include everyone who had knowledge you're not only including the obvious suspects but you're including wives and others close to them.

If you know what is happening and you don't do everything in your power to stop it....you are an accomplice to the crime in my opinion.

We aren't talking about covering up a minor infraction. We're talking about the numerous rapes of teenaged (and younger) boys.

Anybody on Penn State's payroll who had knowledge of the sitation should be fired yesterday.

Slyder
11-09-2011, 11:57 AM
It's unfortunate that Paterno went to the AD and not the police with this and it's too bad that it seems nobody stepped up and "did the right thing". I'm really not sure what else to say about this at this point.

Aren't you opening yourself up to a possible lawsuit by Penn State? Lets just say he followed up with the AD and the AD said a full investigation has been concluded and because of legal agreements cannot comment further? He goes to the police and they find out that the ad did as he said. JoePa gets drug through the public relations nightmare and is forced out for insubordination.

He went to the AD and later both the accuser and accusee are still employed? What else is he to suspect than that the school found nothing?

Regardless of what actually happened I think he was fighting a losing battle. Could he have done more? Yes, but regardless short of him actually PHYSICALLY SEEING IT HIMSELF, I don't think there was any scenario that would have let him stay. He was fighting a losing battle in the war of public opinion.

HotCorner
11-09-2011, 12:01 PM
So, an assistant coach comes to you and tells you he winessed another assistant coach having anal sex with a 10 yr. old boy in your football locker room's shower. So, you report it up the management chain. And when the management chain fails you, you throw your hands up and say "gee, I did everything I could, oh well"?

I mean really? You just walk away?

If it were someone witnessed a shoplifting or drinking underage or something with a little less teeth, I could understand that attitude. But we're talking an extremely serious crime against a child with a lot of emotional punch. Pretty darn serious stuff. I just don't know how you can turn a blind eye to that. I really don't.

Bingo. Especially since a head coach of a college/university is responsible for the well being of so many young men.

jojo
11-09-2011, 12:04 PM
If this is how Penn State protects young adults, no one representing their institution is allowed in my living room to talk to my kids...

Razor Shines
11-09-2011, 12:08 PM
Paterno himself is a victim here. If the University had handled it properly--reported it to police--no one would be criticizing Paterno today. They'd be praising him for how he handled it and that he did what Jim Tressel didn't. Paterno was let down by the higher ups at the University. I feel sorry for the guy. I really do

Wow. Gross

HotCorner
11-09-2011, 12:10 PM
Heck yes.

A coach is observed sexually assaulting a ten year old in the team's locker room and he's allowed to even walk into the facility the next day?

That he's allowed to still coach is mind boggling.

This incident occurred on March 1, 2002. Sandusky retired/resigned in 1999 so he was no longer an active member of the coaching staff at the time of this particular attack. Hoiwever per his retirement agreement with the university, he was given carte blanche at the campus. He was not banned from the PSU campus until 11/6/2011. Over 9 years later!!!

Puffy
11-09-2011, 12:17 PM
OK, for all the people who have condemned Paterno tell me where I am wrong - -

Paterno goes to police....

Paterno: I want to report a child abuse.
Police: Who do you want to report:
Paterno: Jerry Sandusky. A Grad Assistant at Penn State informed me that he saw Mr Sandusky showering with a ten year old boy.
Police: Did you witness this?
Paterno: No.
Police: OK, tell me what the grad assistant told you.
Paterno: Just what I said above. He witnessed this from afar and was shaken. Told me that he saw this and had to get right out of there.
Police: And what did he describe he saw there?
Paterno: He only told me he saw them showering together (Grand Jury Report)
Police: And what, if anything, did you do with this information?
Paterno: The next day I took it to my superiors.
Police: And what have your superiors done with this info?
Paterno: Not enough. As far as I know they spoke with Grad Assistant and performed an investigation but its went nowhere. Thats why I am here.
Police: What is the boy's name?
Paterno: I don't know.
Police: Did the investigation look for his name?
Paterno: I was not involved in investigation so I have no knowledge.
Police: So, you don't know who the boy was, you did not witness any of this happening, and you were not part of any investigation, is all that correct?
Paterno: Yes.
Police: OK, Mr Paterno, our hands are tied here. We are going to need either the witness or your superiors who performed the Investigation to contact us ASAP to proceed further. Unfortunately you are a third party to this and we need an actual witness to proceed any further. How old is the Graduate assistant?
Paterno: 27 or 28.
Police: So, a grown man?
Paterno: Yes.
Police: Why hasn't he come to us?
Paterno: You'd have to ask him.

So, if all that is correct - and I think it is - the only thing Paterno could have done was to go to police and give Graduate Assistant's name to them. So where is the outrage at the G.A. here? That dude is the one who could of stopped all this, not JoePa. A 28 year old man is witness to this heinous act and never goes to police? And because of that you all blame Joe Paterno?

Look, I think Joe Paterno needs to step down and I think he morally should have done more. But, HE DID NOT WITNESS ANYTHING. So far, in this thread, one person has stated that he should have known because he was a friend and another suggests that he is just a notch below a pedophile. NO. The villian here is Jerry Sandusky. Thats where all this anger should be directed. After that the DA and the Penn State officials who turned the other eye in 1998 when they had Sandusky on tape and let him off. After that its the Graduate Assistant who saw this, went to Paterno and then Penn State's schmucks but never the police. Maybe he had a reason, maybe the schmucks told him to sit on this and for some reason he listened. But that dude saw a 58 year old have anal sex in the shower with a 10 year old boy - he needed to do more. Starting with stopping them while in shower. Just a "Hey, what's going on here" would of sufficed. Next (and these people might be more culpable then G.A.) are Curley and that other dude, or the Penn State Schmucks. They mailed in the investigation. Then the D.A. who refused to prosecute in 1998. Then the wife, who had to of known considering her husband was allowing 10 year old boys sleep in her basement, her husband would disappear, plus her husband would take this same boys to hotel rooms, I mean this is not normal behavior (especially since, knowing pedophile behavior he lost interest sexually in his wife years ago, if there was ever a sexually component to marriage ever). Then, finally, Paterno.

So, I am not saying Paterno is right here. No way, no how. But I find it funny how much outrage is directed at him when he did what law required. We are all morally offended by this, I get that. But why are most directing outrage at someone 8 or 9 down on list when there are plenty more higher up that nary a person is mentioning???

RFS62
11-09-2011, 12:23 PM
This isn't about your legal obligations. This isn't about "doing all that was required by law".

This is about a trusted member of your staff committing the most heinous crimes imaginable. If the scenario you just played out happened exactly as you said, and you're an attorney, so I believe you that it would have been like that, his responsibility was only beginning at their lack of interest.

He should have moved heaven and earth to pressure the witness and the AD and anyone else in upper management who had any say over how this was handled to do the right thing.

Instead, he turned a blind eye and did nothing.

A real leader of men, he is.

You think Paterno is proud of how he handled things?

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 12:25 PM
So, an assistant coach comes to you and tells you he winessed another assistant coach having anal sex with a 10 yr. old boy in your football locker room's shower.

One of us doesn't have their facts straight. If it's me please set me straight.

I was under the impression that this pervert was not an asst coach in 2002 when the incident occured and that he'd left the program years ago. If he was still an employee under Paterno at the time, then that's different.

So what was it?

top6
11-09-2011, 12:26 PM
Paterno himself is a victim here. If the University had handled it properly--reported it to police--no one would be criticizing Paterno today. They'd be praising him for how he handled it and that he did what Jim Tressel didn't. Paterno was let down by the higher ups at the University. I feel sorry for the guy. I really do

The fact that you think Jim Tressel is remotely relevant to this discussion is mind boggling to me. At worst, Tressel supported efforts to cheat to recruit players to win football games. There is no comparison to what allegedly happened here.

And of course your argument assumes that Paterno had this one report, and that's it. But that doesn't really make any sense. Sandusky was a huge part of the Penn State program for decades, and if the allegations are true he was a serial rapist during some or all of that time. He was actively investigated by University policy in 1998 for allegedly molesting children. Mysteriously, in 1999, at age 54, he retired. It just isn't believable that the only hint Paterno had that this guy was a child molester was the one report in 2002, unfortunately.

George Anderson
11-09-2011, 12:26 PM
But why are most directing outrage at someone 8 or 9 down on list when there are plenty more higher up that nary a person is mentioning???

Because no one is calling for the 8-9 people above him on the list to keep their job or excusing their behavior.

Plus like it or not, JoePa is the face of the program.

HotCorner
11-09-2011, 12:26 PM
Paterno: He only told me he saw them showering together (Grand Jury Report)


Incorrect. Paterno testified that "the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

That's hardly "showering together." Curley and Schultz are the ones that testified and down played/lied about the incident.

If JoePa says the above to police an investigation would have occurred especially considering who JoePa is to that area.



So, if all that is correct - and I think it is - the only thing Paterno could have done was to go to police and give Graduate Assistant's name to them. So where is the outrage at the G.A. here? That dude is the one who could of stopped all this, not JoePa. A 28 year old man is witness to this heinous act and never goes to police? And because of that you all blame Joe Paterno?


Agreed. This GA acted cowardly and I believe his days are numbered at PSU too.

Hypnotoad
11-09-2011, 12:26 PM
"Paterno goes to police" = wrong

There are so many ignorant and repugnant statements in this thread.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 12:28 PM
The fact that you think Jim Tressel is remotely relevant to this discussion is mind boggling to me. At worst, Tressel supported efforts to cheat to recruit players to win football games. There is no comparison to what allegedly happened here.



Tressel's error was in not reporting a problem to University authorities. Paterno did exactly that. In that respect it's relevant

top6
11-09-2011, 12:30 PM
Tressel's error was in not reporting a problem to University authorities. Paterno did exactly that. In that respect it's relevant

I think the reason your comparison is so offensive and pointless is that one of the "problems" involved improper benefits and one of the "problems" involved the rape of a young child. I wouldn't actually consider the later "a problem" so much as a tragedy or abomination that needs to be stopped at any cost.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 12:32 PM
"Paterno goes to police" = wrong

There are so many ignorant and repugnant statements in this thread.

I don't want to speak for another poster but I inferenced from his post that what you read was a hypothetical conversation with police in order to show how useless it would have been

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 12:34 PM
I think the reason your comparison is so offensive and pointless is that one of the "problems" involved improper benefits and one of the "problems" involved the rape of a young child. I wouldn't actually consider the later "a problem" so much as a tragedy or abomination that needs to be stopped at any cost.

I am not even getting into the severity of the problems being reported. I'm merely talking about the reporting of them. If you want to state for the record that one "problem" was much more severe than another I'm on board

Chip R
11-09-2011, 12:41 PM
I think that's pretty extreme and you're creating a lot more victims. Do we really need more victims? If you include everyone who had knowledge you're not only including the obvious suspects but you're including wives and others close to them.


I would qualify your statement and say that everyone who had knowledge of this and did not notify the police or the DA should lose their jobs and I hope the victims and their families sue them.

Puffy
11-09-2011, 12:52 PM
This isn't about your legal obligations. This isn't about "doing all that was required by law".

This is about a trusted member of your staff committing the most heinous crimes imaginable. If the scenario you just played out happened exactly as you said, and you're an attorney, so I believe you that it would have been like that, his responsibility was only beginning at their lack of interest.

He should have moved heaven and earth to pressure the witness and the AD and anyone else in upper management who had any say over how this was handled to do the right thing.

Instead, he turned a blind eye and did nothing.

A real leader of men, he is.

You think Paterno is proud of how he handled things?

No, I don't think Paterno is proud of how he handled things. But that's a guess since who knows how his brain works anymore.

But, again, my point is we live in a gray world. Yet everyone continues to view it as black and white. And a lot of you who knows this are still treating this as black or white and you all are better than that.

Puffy
11-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Incorrect. Paterno testified that "the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

That's hardly "showering together." Curley and Schultz are the ones that testified and down played/lied about the incident.

If JoePa says the above to police an investigation would have occurred especially considering who JoePa is to that area.




First, you are correct and I apologize. I was doing quickly since I wrote a book and didn't look up correct wording. But its important to remember that Paterno claims the G.A. never stated having sex. Trivial maybe but I could get that torn through on cross.

Second, I think you are right on investigation and I was trying to show that. But the police can only go so far on a non-witness claim.

Think about it like this: Your neighbor is a wife beater. You know this. Everyone on your block knows this. One day guy who cuts your grass comes to you and says they saw neighbor punch his wife. You tell contractor he has to go to police. Contractor says he does not want to get involved. You decide that you have to do something. You go to police and tell police that its a well known secret that neighbor is domestic abuser and that an independent contractor who works for you witnessed abuse. However, Independent Contractor and abuse victim will not cooperate. What are the police to do? And if police cannot proceed further have you done all you could do? Neighbor is domestic abuser - they, like pedophiles - don't ever stop. So, what more can you do?

I think I have been clear - Joe Paterno needed to follow up. He needed to got to Superiors again, to campus police, to State College Police. But there is still only so much he can force police to do without that witness.

I guess I am just saying everyone is condemning Paterno way more than I am comfortable condemning him. He done did wrong. No argument. But he's not the devil. That's Sandusky

Puffy
11-09-2011, 01:08 PM
"Paterno goes to police" = wrong

There are so many ignorant and repugnant statements in this thread.

It was a hypothetical. I thought that was clear.

dabvu2498
11-09-2011, 01:22 PM
No, I don't think Paterno is proud of how he handled things. But that's a guess since who knows how his brain works anymore.

But, again, my point is we live in a gray world. Yet everyone continues to view it as black and white. And a lot of you who knows this are still treating this as black or white and you all are better than that.

This is pretty black and white.

Sex with children is wrong.

Everyone who knew about it and didn't do EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER to stop it is in the wrong.

Puffy
11-09-2011, 01:47 PM
Joe Paterno: "I wish I had done more"

Now I am with you guys because now its black and white. No alternate story, no differing facts.

I hope people realize my problem was everyone is so quick to condemn without letting facts develop. Its a gray world. I am involved in a case where I heard the facts and I was so taken aback and outraged I took the case. Now it turns out none of the facts are correct. Whoops. Gray world.

MWM
11-09-2011, 01:56 PM
I think the conversation to break down isn't the one that should have happened with the police, but the one with the GA. The excuse that he didn't give all the details is an indictment in itself. The conversation that should have happened is one where Paterno pushes the GA for details and tries to get as much information as he can. If the GA was so shaken up by it, Paterno should have been there for GA and gone to the police together. Then all of a sudden, the police DO have someone who witnessed it.

If Paterno didn't try to find out exactly what happened from the GA, then to me that speaks volumes as to where his priorities were.

traderumor
11-09-2011, 02:04 PM
The biggest problem Paterno has is being a part of a clear coverup. That's conspiracy and requires consequences, the least of which is loss of job. Conspiracy has legal consequences as well, all rooted in moral responsibilities of those involved when crimes are committed.

I am a Finance Director at a mental health facility. If one of the agency's volunteers was doing a little boy in our shower, I reported it to our Executive Director, and if he did not do everything in his power to pursue prosecution of this volunteer, whether or not I actually witnessed it, I would not only be resigning, I would be going to our Board of Directors, the County MH Board, the State Board, anyone that would listen to make sure that this boy got justice.

How anyone can excuse Paterno from that responsibility is disappointing.

cincrazy
11-09-2011, 02:07 PM
The more I think about the situation the more I agree with this thinking. I try to imagine what I would have done in that situation. The coach who witnessed it was a 28 year old man at that time. I think I would have done my best to stop it but I can't put myself in that situation. I also think that while many people think Paterno should have done more, he did what he was legally required to do. We also don't know if he followed up with the AD or President. I do know that if the AD or President did the right think then Joe wouldn't be in this situation, Penn State wouldn't be in this situation.

What I find disappointing is the media's coverage of this incident. They won't stop until they ruin both Joe Pa and Penn State football. Very few of them are talking about the actual victims in the case or the disturbing events that Sandusky committed, they are bringing their lynches and going after Joe. The sad thing to me is that once Joe steps down and PSU football is ruined the national media will turn their focus elsewhere and leave the university in ruins. Often times we tend to project moral responsibility on others while we don't hold that same for ourselves.

Amen, brother.

cincrazy
11-09-2011, 02:08 PM
I'm trying to understand why Paterno being forced out is a bigger story than finding out how many kids were abused, and the case against Sandusky.

Yes, Paterno should go. But it's pretty sad that's the main story in all of this.

cincrazy
11-09-2011, 02:10 PM
This is the worst scandal in the history of college football. And it's not even close.

Shouldn't society be looking itself in the mirror? We build these guys up as heroes time and again, and this is what we get. Maybe if we didn't put college football on a religious-like level, these problems would diminish.

The institution was put ahead of the young boys. And these ignorant people rioting in support of Paterno and the university makes me sick.

George Anderson
11-09-2011, 02:12 PM
I'm trying to understand why Paterno being forced out is a bigger story than finding out how many kids were abused, and the case against Sandusky.

Yes, Paterno should go. But it's pretty sad that's the main story in all of this.

Because the all time winningest football coach in NCAA history retiring is not something that happens every day.

Sadly reports of adults having sex with children are not all that uncommon.

Roy Tucker
11-09-2011, 02:19 PM
I do understand how very difficult it would be for Paterno to delve into this issue and follow up vigorously. It's a repugnant act, children are involved, a close friend assistant coach is involved, and he doesn't want to believe it. Not to mention he's from a different generation where these things just aren't discussed. It's a very difficult wall to break down and I get that.

I was put in a similar situation about 15 years ago with a close family member. His now ex-wife came to me saying "Roy, there is something going on here and I don't know what to do". And I went through all the disbelief and wanting to run away or ignore it or just push it off kinds of things. And after a sleepless night and some soul-searching and cousel from a wise wife, I said "OK, let's see what's going on". And asked a lot of very-hard-to-ask questions that eventually included police and criminal charges and jail and divorce and a whole raft of some really bad stuff.

So I get how hard it is to turn someone in for this. But doesn't absolve you of a moral obligation to follow it through to the bitter end. At least that's how I felt.

Hoosier Red
11-09-2011, 02:30 PM
I do understand how very difficult it would be for Paterno to delve into this issue and follow up vigorously. It's a repugnant act, children are involved, a close friend assistant coach is involved, and he doesn't want to believe it. Not to mention he's from a different generation where these things just aren't discussed. It's a very difficult wall to break down and I get that.

I was put in a similar situation about 15 years ago with a close family member. His now ex-wife came to me saying "Roy, there is something going on here and I don't know what to do". And I went through all the disbelief and wanting to run away or ignore it or just push it off kinds of things. And after a sleepless night and some soul-searching and cousel from a wise wife, I said "OK, let's see what's going on". And asked a lot of very-hard-to-ask questions that eventually included police and criminal charges and jail and divorce and a whole raft of some really bad stuff.

So I get how hard it is to turn someone in for this. But doesn't absolve you of a moral obligation to follow it through to the bitter end. At least that's how I felt.

That's well put Roy. I hope I've been clear in my posts that I wasn't excusing Paterno's lack of action, but rather putting it in the context. I do think of all the people in the media and elsewhere who insist that they would have done more, a good number of them don't recognize the amount of courage that would require and when actually faced with the decision, might not live up to their lofty standards.

In all honesty, if I'm Penn State, if at the end of the day, the sentence is Joe doesn't coach another game, then quite honestly they should forfeit the rest of the season.

Because if I'm the university, and I say what Joe Paterno did was shameful and we can't continue to have him represent our university, what was done by everyone above and around Joe was equally if not more shameful. Blast him for not doing anything more than the legal minimum. But at least he did the legal minimum.

If you want to make a statement, forfeit the games, offer the money from season tickets back to the people who bought it with the caveat that anyone who doesn't ask for their money back will have that amount donated to a charity dedicated to helping children recover from disgusting acts like this.

I'd also go about setting up a fund to reimburse the victims of the tragedy. If you have to massage the legalese that's fine, but be up front about your complicity as a University and your failure to act.

jojo
11-09-2011, 02:56 PM
In all honesty, if I'm Penn State, if at the end of the day, the sentence is Joe doesn't coach another game, then quite honestly they should forfeit the rest of the season.

This was a failure of leadership. I don't think its fair to the student athletes to make them pay for this.

Hoosier Red
11-09-2011, 02:59 PM
Probably not. I simply don't see the point in the University-which on the whole was more complicit in the crime than Paterno-deciding that he's no longer fit to represent them.

dougdirt
11-09-2011, 03:54 PM
Paterno did exactly what he should have when he heard about it: He reported it to authorities at the University. At that point he moved on. The villans here are first the guy who witnessed it,then his Dad, then the PSU President, the AD and Paterno is way down the list.

This guy has had a spotless record for "forever". It's not right that this should bring down his career such that it is and stain his legacy forever just because all these other folks didn't do the right thing. It wasn't incumbant upon Paterno to report it to police.

No. Paterno reported it to his boss. Not to the police. That is what he should have done when he heard about it. Anything besides that, or going out and beating the guy absolutely senseless, then calling the police, is "doing it wrong".

top6
11-09-2011, 03:58 PM
I am not even getting into the severity of the problems being reported. I'm merely talking about the reporting of them. If you want to state for the record that one "problem" was much more severe than another I'm on board

I still don't think the comparison makes any sense at all. A coach reports violations of the rules of the NCAA because it's his job, it's part of his contract, and because it's the right thing to do and is consistent with good sportsmanship.

A person human reports child abuse because it's their duty as a human being: whether that duty is legal or moral. Put another way, a person reports child abuse for the same reason that if a child runs in front of their car they stop the car: because to do anything else is disgusting and cruel.

I still don't understand what the point of mentioning Tressel was. In other words, had Paterno reported this, and had it just come out now for some reason, I don't think any normal person's first thought would have been: "wow, Paterno did what Tressel could not," which is what you seemed to be saying.

dougdirt
11-09-2011, 03:59 PM
I am not even getting into the severity of the problems being reported. I'm merely talking about the reporting of them. If you want to state for the record that one "problem" was much more severe than another I'm on board

Here is the difference.... one of them is illegal. What the players at Ohio State did was not illegal, at all. It simply broke very stupid rules set up by a private organization. One was illegal and reprehensible. One was the breaking of a stupid rule by a private organization. One is illegal. One is askin to making a photocopy of your butt on the copy machine at work. To suggest that reporting both to your boss is the same thing is ignoring what happened. One broke the law. You may report that to your boss, but you also need to report that to the authorities.

RFS62
11-09-2011, 04:00 PM
I do understand how very difficult it would be for Paterno to delve into this issue and follow up vigorously. It's a repugnant act, children are involved, a close friend assistant coach is involved, and he doesn't want to believe it. Not to mention he's from a different generation where these things just aren't discussed. It's a very difficult wall to break down and I get that.

I was put in a similar situation about 15 years ago with a close family member. His now ex-wife came to me saying "Roy, there is something going on here and I don't know what to do". And I went through all the disbelief and wanting to run away or ignore it or just push it off kinds of things. And after a sleepless night and some soul-searching and cousel from a wise wife, I said "OK, let's see what's going on". And asked a lot of very-hard-to-ask questions that eventually included police and criminal charges and jail and divorce and a whole raft of some really bad stuff.

So I get how hard it is to turn someone in for this. But doesn't absolve you of a moral obligation to follow it through to the bitter end. At least that's how I felt.



That's the difference in a man and a weasel. I couldn't care less what Paterno has done in his life, how many people he's helped, any amount of charity work he's done.

When faced with the knowledge that one of his subordinates raped a child in the Penn State locker room, there's nothing to decide... nothing else to consider. He's a gutless old man who deserves to be run out of town on a rail for sharing in the disgrace his administration's lack of common decency has brought on this once proud program.

No, Paterno doesn't deserve the same degree of repudiation that the child rapist. Good for him, he only gets remembered as the head of the program which enabled it to go on for years.

top6
11-09-2011, 04:01 PM
Because the all time winningest football coach in NCAA history retiring is not something that happens every day.

Sadly reports of adults having sex with children are not all that uncommon.

And similarly it is not uncommon for people to learn about sexual abuse and fail to report it. And this is one reason why Paterno, imo, if these allegations are true, should be punished and punished severely. If a high-profile figure suffers serious consequences, it may make other people who know about sexual abuse think twice about any decision they have made not to report it.

MWM
11-09-2011, 04:24 PM
No, Paterno doesn't deserve the same degree of repudiation that the child rapist. Good for him, he only gets remembered as the head of the program which enabled it to go on for years.

This is exactly it.

Stray
11-09-2011, 04:46 PM
It's also kinda crazy how the DA who decided not to prosecute Sandusky a long time ago, even though he apparently got a confession, went missing and is presumed dead.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 04:47 PM
I would qualify your statement and say that everyone who had knowledge of this and did not notify the police or the DA should lose their jobs and I hope the victims and their families sue them.

Oh wonderful. Just what we need. More lawsuits...:rolleyes:

*BaseClogger*
11-09-2011, 04:50 PM
RT: @Stray "It's also kinda crazy how the DA who decided not to prosecute Sandusky a long time ago, even though he apparently got a confession, went missing and is presumed dead."

bucksfan2
11-09-2011, 04:51 PM
It's also kinda crazy how the DA who decided not to prosecute Sandusky a long time ago, even though he apparently got a confession, went missing and is presumed dead.

Sounds to me that if this guy did his job then we wouldn't have this whole mess at PSU.

If the DA decided not to prosecute the case doesn't that mean that the reporting went through the proper channels? Am I missing something?

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 04:52 PM
The biggest problem Paterno has is being a part of a clear coverup.

How is it a coverup if he reported it to his superiors?

Stray
11-09-2011, 04:56 PM
Sounds to me that if this guy did his job then we wouldn't have this whole mess at PSU.

If the DA decided not to prosecute the case doesn't that mean that the reporting went through the proper channels? Am I missing something?

Too bad he isn't around to connect the dots. I see what you're saying though, and if he got the information then yeah it had to have been passed along. His disappearance raises a lot of questions... Was he killed? Was he paid to disappear?

I really dunno, but it doesn't look good.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 04:57 PM
No. Paterno reported it to his boss. Not to the police. That is what he should have done when he heard about it. Anything besides that, or going out and beating the guy absolutely senseless, then calling the police, is "doing it wrong".

I never said he reported it to the police. He reported it to his boss and then it was up to his boss to handle it. The fact they didn't is why we're talking about it now.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 05:00 PM
When faced with the knowledge that one of his subordinates raped a child in the Penn State locker room, there's nothing to decide...

Was it a subordinate? I thought this guy was not a part of the football team in any way at the time

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 05:01 PM
Here is the difference.... one of them is illegal. What the players at Ohio State did was not illegal, at all. It simply broke very stupid rules set up by a private organization. One was illegal and reprehensible. One was the breaking of a stupid rule by a private organization. One is illegal. One is askin to making a photocopy of your butt on the copy machine at work. To suggest that reporting both to your boss is the same thing is ignoring what happened. One broke the law. You may report that to your boss, but you also need to report that to the authorities.

Why is Paterno the one who's responsible for reporting it to the authorities? Why not everyone who that grad asst told? I'm not hearing about his Dad, wife or anyone else losing their jobs?

Chip R
11-09-2011, 05:03 PM
Oh wonderful. Just what we need. More lawsuits...:rolleyes:

So you don't believe in anyone filing a law suit over anything because there are too many lawsuits?

BuckeyeRed27
11-09-2011, 05:04 PM
Why is Paterno the one who's responsible for reporting it to the authorities? Why not everyone who that grad asst told? I'm not hearing about his Dad, wife or anyone else losing their jobs?

They should have to. Somebody should have. Joe Paterno has 409 wins and is the face of that university. That is why he is being talked about, but he doesn't have any more or less blame than the others except for maybe being in a position of power.

cincrazy
11-09-2011, 05:05 PM
Why is Paterno the one who's responsible for reporting it to the authorities? Why not everyone who that grad asst told? I'm not hearing about his Dad, wife or anyone else losing their jobs?

SOMEONE was responsible for reporting it. And NOBODY did. I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on the type of man you are from my time on here the last several years. And I do believe that if you saw this happen with your own eyes, or were told by someone else, that you would've taken the proper steps and contacted authorities if the people above you didn't handle it in such a manner.

Paterno was part of a coverup, and I think that's an accurate description of the situation. They kept the lid on the fact that Sandusky was a child molestor. Whether Paterno did that knowingly or not, I don't know.

Everyone failed in this scenario. I don't think that Paterno is a bad man. But he made a horrendous mistake, and as a man in a position of authority, he deserves to lose his job for this.

I see what you're saying about tearing the man apart, making it a witch hunt. I feel much the same way. Paterno isn't the devil here. But I disagree with you on Paterno's responsibility.

dabvu2498
11-09-2011, 05:12 PM
How is it a coverup if he reported it to his superiors?

Because when his superiors decided all they needed to do was ban him from bringing kids on campus, he should have known better. He was complicit, if not involved in the cover up.

His job should be the least of his worries.

jojo
11-09-2011, 05:14 PM
Why is Paterno the one who's responsible for reporting it to the authorities? Why not everyone who that grad asst told? I'm not hearing about his Dad, wife or anyone else losing their jobs?

There should have been a line at the desk seargent's window....

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 05:15 PM
So you don't believe in anyone filing a law suit over anything because there are too many lawsuits?

I believe there are far too many lawsuits and suing Paterno over this is totally uncalled for

jojo
11-09-2011, 05:15 PM
I believe there are far too many lawsuits and suing Paterno over this is totally uncalled for

I believe scenarios like this is exactly the purpose of law suits...

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 05:19 PM
They should have to. Somebody should have. Joe Paterno has 409 wins and is the face of that university. That is why he is being talked about, but he doesn't have any more or less blame than the others except for maybe being in a position of power.

The quest for blood here is incredible. Some of you folks want mass firings and even that's not enough for others. They want the entire football season cancelled so there are thousands more victims to this mess.

I agree with Paterno, this is a tragedy, in hindsight somethings should have been done differently. Let's fire the AD, the President, the coach (at the end of the year) and let's move on. Why make the more people suffer?

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 05:21 PM
Because when his superiors decided all they needed to do was ban him from bringing kids on campus, he should have known better. He was complicit, if not involved in the cover up.

His job should be the least of his worries.

He wasn't complicit unless he was in on those decisions.

remdog
11-09-2011, 05:21 PM
Joe Paterno should be fired imediately. What he did/didn't do was both immoral and irresponsible.

Penn State should not allow him to coach another game, come on campus or represent the university in any way. His lack of a moral compass and responsibility is totally reprehensible.

Greg Doyal wrote a opinion pice on cbssports that I totally agree with: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16050982/as-you-read-this-paterno-era-at-penn-state-should-be-done

As I post this it's almost 1:30 PM PST. JoePa should be gone by the time hits 2:00 PM PST.

The fact is: Joe should go. NOW

Rem

BuckeyeRed27
11-09-2011, 05:23 PM
The quest for blood here is incredible. Some of you folks want mass firings and even that's not enough for others. They want the entire football season cancelled so there are thousands more victims to this mess.

I agree with Paterno, this is a tragedy, in hindsight somethings should have been done differently. Let's fire the AD, the President, the coach (at the end of the year) and let's move on. Why make the more people suffer?

How is it incredible? At least 20 young boys were raped and many of them could have been stopped. These people don't deserve to keep their jobs. The victims also deserve restitution and I'm sure the civil suit here will be quite large and it should be.

I don't really understand your second paragraph as it seems to be a contridiction to your first paragraph.

bucksfan2
11-09-2011, 05:24 PM
SOMEONE was responsible for reporting it. And NOBODY did. I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on the type of man you are from my time on here the last several years. And I do believe that if you saw this happen with your own eyes, or were told by someone else, that you would've taken the proper steps and contacted authorities if the people above you didn't handle it in such a manner.

Paterno was part of a coverup, and I think that's an accurate description of the situation. They kept the lid on the fact that Sandusky was a child molestor. Whether Paterno did that knowingly or not, I don't know.

Everyone failed in this scenario. I don't think that Paterno is a bad man. But he made a horrendous mistake, and as a man in a position of authority, he deserves to lose his job for this.

I see what you're saying about tearing the man apart, making it a witch hunt. I feel much the same way. Paterno isn't the devil here. But I disagree with you on Paterno's responsibility.

They did report it didn't they? At some point a DA was involved who decided not to press charges. To me that sounds like it went from PSU to the authorities and to a DA. Now this DA is missing so he can't tell why he didn't press charges against Sandusky.

BuckeyeRed27
11-09-2011, 05:25 PM
They did report it didn't they? At some point a DA was involved who decided not to press charges. To me that sounds like it went from PSU to the authorities and to a DA. Now this DA is missing so he can't tell why he didn't press charges against Sandusky.

That was a different case that took place in 1998 and a victims family reported it directly.

No Penn State official ever contacted the authorities about Jerry Sandusky.

bucksfan2
11-09-2011, 05:30 PM
That was a different case that took place in 1998 and a victims family reported it directly.

No Penn State official ever contacted the authorities about Jerry Sandusky.

Gotcha.

You could also say that if this DA did his job then the Sandusky would no longer have been able to have his way with boys. The incident that is bringing down PSU never would have happened.

BuckeyeRed27
11-09-2011, 05:34 PM
Gotcha.

You could also say that if this DA did his job then the Sandusky would no longer have been able to have his way with boys. The incident that is bringing down PSU never would have happened.

I would say that. The DA screwed up big time. From reports Sandusky admitted to the mothers face what had happened and the conversation was on tape. Not sure why that wasn't good enough to prosecute, but since he's gone missing I guess we'll never know.

Chip R
11-09-2011, 05:47 PM
It appears the president of PSU will be gone by the end of the day.

Says something about our society when a university president loses his job before the football coach.

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/09/report-penn-state-president-graham-spanier-will-quit-or-be-fired-by-end-of-wednesday/?sct=hp_t2_a4&eref=sihp

Roy Tucker
11-09-2011, 05:49 PM
I agree with Paterno, this is a tragedy, in hindsight somethings should have been done differently. Let's fire the AD, the President, the coach (at the end of the year) and let's move on. Why make the more people suffer?

I'll pretty much agree with this from the standpoint that this was an institutional failure all down the line. Many people, some legally, some morally, dropped the ball hugely. Paterno shouldn't be the only guy to get fired. Lots of heads should roll.

But I would fire him now. I don't think he deserves to finish off the season. He failed many people very badly.

KronoRed
11-09-2011, 06:09 PM
I could see a potential problem for the players when the coach is canned and then his staff, half of whom played for Paterno, also quit in protest.

Not saying it would happen but it may be an issue in why they aren't dumping him right away.

Stray
11-09-2011, 06:20 PM
It appears the president of PSU will be gone by the end of the day.

Says something about our society when a university president loses his job before the football coach.

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/09/report-penn-state-president-graham-spanier-will-quit-or-be-fired-by-end-of-wednesday/?sct=hp_t2_a4&eref=sihp

This is a no brainer, he has to go. Isn't he also a chairman on a BCS committee or something? I assume he'll be losing that job as well.

RFS62
11-09-2011, 06:32 PM
I'll pretty much agree with this from the standpoint that this was an institutional failure all down the line. Many people, some legally, some morally, dropped the ball hugely. Paterno shouldn't be the only guy to get fired. Lots of heads should roll.

But I would fire him now. I don't think he deserves to finish off the season. He failed many people very badly.


Exactly right. Just because Paterno is getting all the attention doesn't mean the others up and down the food chain don't deserve the same fate. Jo Pa has lived in the public eye all his adult life, and it's obviously a terrible blow to his legacy, but that doesn't give him a get out of jail free card here. In fact, because he's such an icon, that campus expects more from him. What he did falls far below the minimum standard for any decent human being, much less an "icon".





I could see a potential problem for the players when the coach is canned and then his staff, half of whom played for Paterno, also quit in protest.

Not saying it would happen but it may be an issue in why they aren't dumping him right away.


That is so beyond irrelevent, if it were found that that played into the timing to let him go, whomever used that criteria should be gone too.

I don't believe that they're that stupid, with the eyes of the world on them now.

dougdirt
11-09-2011, 06:49 PM
Why is Paterno the one who's responsible for reporting it to the authorities? Why not everyone who that grad asst told? I'm not hearing about his Dad, wife or anyone else losing their jobs?

Anyone who knew about it and didn't contact the police should be getting some sort of flack/trouble for it. We were specifically talking about Paterno at that point though, so I didn't bring up anyone else.

dougdirt
11-09-2011, 06:52 PM
He wasn't complicit unless he was in on those decisions.

Until he then saw the guy again and that guy wasn't in jail. At that point, he became complicit. Why are we having this conversation still?

If you saw that, and then saw the guy around later, you would know that something isn't right. If you did nothing at that point, you are then in on not doing the right thing. Period.

RFS62
11-09-2011, 06:55 PM
I believe there are far too many lawsuits and suing Paterno over this is totally uncalled for

OMG. Man, you've shot yourself in the foot at least a dozen times here, now it looks like you've decided to reload and keep going.

Seriously.



The quest for blood here is incredible. Some of you folks want mass firings and even that's not enough for others. They want the entire football season cancelled so there are thousands more victims to this mess.

I agree with Paterno, this is a tragedy, in hindsight somethings should have been done differently. Let's fire the AD, the President, the coach (at the end of the year) and let's move on. Why make the more people suffer?



Why make more people suffer? To show the world that anyone who had a chance to stop this and didn't will be scorned by society on any level.

I think the suffering we should be concerned with would be the kids this scum raped.

Everyone else involved who turned a blind eye should be publicly identified and villified.

You think this is blood lust? Wait until this POS rapist lands in prison. Ever heard what happens to child molesters in the slammer?

savafan
11-09-2011, 07:10 PM
Until he then saw the guy again and that guy wasn't in jail. At that point, he became complicit. Why are we having this conversation still?

If you saw that, and then saw the guy around later, you would know that something isn't right. If you did nothing at that point, you are then in on not doing the right thing. Period.

Is it possible that he thought his superiors did investigate and they didn't find anything worth taking any further. Honestly, without Mike McQueary to come forward to give a statement to the police on what he saw, everyone else's hands were somewhat tied as far as what they could do. The major outrage here has to be toward Sandusky, but second to be culpable for the now reported 20 victims would have to be McQueary.

Why did McQueary go to his father and not directly to the police?

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7205085/growing-penn-state

One thing you have to remember is that McQueary grew up in Happy Valley. His family lived around and knew the Paterno and Sandusky families. He went to school with their kids. I don't know how close Mr. McQueary was (is) to Sandusky, but you have to consider that not only had Sandusky been his coach, he was also a father to kids that he grew up with from the time he was a child. I'm not excusing his actions, not at all, but I think there needs to be some digging here to find out WHY McQueary first didn't decide to go to the police, and then secondly why his father also didn't direct him to report it.

cincrazy
11-09-2011, 07:45 PM
Just read the Grand Jury report. Apparently the campus police had investigated him, and told him not to shower anymore with boys. Un.Believ.Able.

How many different people were protecting this garbage? I'd have a hard time believing this if it were a movie script, let alone real life.

RFS62
11-09-2011, 07:55 PM
How different is this than the scandals which have rocked the Catholic Church over the years?

Even the most ardent Catholics, a much higher calling than to be a Nittany Lion fan, call for the heads of the priests identified in public. And the higher ups are often accused of turning away or just transferring the culprit.

I'll never understand how such corruption can take place in ANY organization.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 10:31 PM
It appears the president of PSU will be gone by the end of the day.

Says something about our society when a university president loses his job before the football coach.

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/09/report-penn-state-president-graham-spanier-will-quit-or-be-fired-by-end-of-wednesday/?sct=hp_t2_a4&eref=sihp

I hold the University President much more culpable than the football coach. The football coach doesn't own his locker room/showers. The University does.

jojo
11-09-2011, 10:35 PM
I hold the University President much more culpable than the football coach. The football coach doesn't own his locker room/showers. The University does.

The football coach is in charge of the locker room and showers. If anything, he is more culpable because he is paid to be culpable. I'm pretty sure that when the President and BOTs agree to tender a contract to a football coach, the expectation is that the rape of children will not be condoned in the athletic facilities the coach is granted...

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 10:35 PM
But I would fire him now. I don't think he deserves to finish off the season. He failed many people very badly.

So you'd treat him like he had the resume of Luke Fickell. All he's done for the school is down the drain. Isn't losing his job enough? What good does it do to fire him tonight? Does that help the little boys who were abused? What it does do is increase the victims list to include all the current PSU players, coaches and others associated with the program. I think you're hurting a lot more innocent people by handling it that way.

jojo
11-09-2011, 10:37 PM
So you'd treat him like he had the resume of Luke Fickell. All he's done for the school is down the drain. Isn't losing his job enough? What good does it do to fire him tonight? Does that help the little boys who were abused? What it does do is increase the victims list to include all the current PSU players, coaches and others associated with the program. I think you're hurting a lot more innocent people by handling it that way.

You want the buck to stop with the President but you want it to leap over the head of the football program. Makes. Little. Sense.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 10:40 PM
If you saw that, and then saw the guy around later, you would know that something isn't right. If you did nothing at that point, you are then in on not doing the right thing. Period.

You're being a bit loose with the facts. "If you saw that..." what did Paterno see? Not to be nit picky but I think that's an important disctinction. If it was Paterno that caught Sandusky in the act, I'd agree with you

dougdirt
11-09-2011, 10:44 PM
So you'd treat him like he had the resume of Luke Fickell. All he's done for the school is down the drain. Isn't losing his job enough? What good does it do to fire him tonight? Does that help the little boys who were abused? What it does do is increase the victims list to include all the current PSU players, coaches and others associated with the program. I think you're hurting a lot more innocent people by handling it that way.

What good does it do to fire him tonight? It first and foremost shows that no one is bigger than the university.

No matter how you slice it, the current players are going to be "victims" of this. Joe Paterno isn't the coach of this team and he hasn't been for a few years now. He is a puppet that they sit up.

And at the end of the day, a college football game or two being lost because of this sucks for the players and they might even be mad about it at the time, but one day they will be able to fully understand why it happened and understand that it was the best thing to do. If I were a player on that team, I would be holding a team only meeting right now and organizing players to follow my lead and tell the school that I am not playing for Joe or any other coach who was known to have knowledge about this situation. Football is a game, even one that we are very passionate about. But at the end of the day, it is still just a game and there are things a lot bigger going on here.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 10:46 PM
Is it possible that he thought his superiors did investigate and they didn't find anything worth taking any further. Honestly, without Mike McQueary to come forward to give a statement to the police on what he saw, everyone else's hands were somewhat tied as far as what they could do. The major outrage here has to be toward Sandusky, but second to be culpable for the now reported 20 victims would have to be McQueary.



Good point and one I've considered as well. Let's say after Joe Pa reported it he notices that Sandusky hasn't been arrested. It would be fair for him to assume that the charges were deemed to be unfounded--in other words don't believe everything you hear. Just because someone told him this happened doesn't mean it really did. Joe Pa's got a lot on his plate with running the football team so he leaves it at that and doesn't give it another thought. I think that's very plausible.

dougdirt
11-09-2011, 10:47 PM
You're being a bit loose with the facts. "If you saw that..." what did Paterno see? Not to be nit picky but I think that's an important disctinction. If it was Paterno that caught Sandusky in the act, I'd agree with you

No. Paterno was told by someone of what happened. He didn't have to see it. What Paterno saw was the man he was told was fondling a young boy in a shower roaming around his campus after he reportedly took it to his AD. There is no need for distinction there.

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 10:48 PM
OMG. Man, you've shot yourself in the foot at least a dozen times here, now it looks like you've decided to reload and keep going.



This isn't about me or my feet. It's about Paterno and PSU. You're free to disagree with the way I see it and I'll do the same with you

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 10:52 PM
The football coach is in charge of the locker room and showers. If anything, he is more culpable because he is paid to be culpable. I'm pretty sure that when the President and BOTs agree to tender a contract to a football coach, the expectation is that the rape of children will not be condoned in the athletic facilities the coach is granted...

This happened in the off season and had nothing to do with the football program. Joe Pa was no where near the facility when this happened. Again, he didn't try to keep this secret to save his buddy or anything. He immediately told the higher ups. If they'd done the investigation and called the police, everyone would be praising Joe Pa today for having handled this properly. Aside from the guy who saw the act and could have stopped it, the villan(s) is the PSU officials

Sea Ray
11-09-2011, 10:54 PM
What good does it do to fire him tonight? It first and foremost shows that no one is bigger than the university.

No matter how you slice it, the current players are going to be "victims" of this. Joe Paterno isn't the coach of this team and he hasn't been for a few years now. He is a puppet that they sit up.

And at the end of the day, a college football game or two being lost because of this sucks for the players and they might even be mad about it at the time, but one day they will be able to fully understand why it happened and understand that it was the best thing to do. If I were a player on that team, I would be holding a team only meeting right now and organizing players to follow my lead and tell the school that I am not playing for Joe or any other coach who was known to have knowledge about this situation. Football is a game, even one that we are very passionate about. But at the end of the day, it is still just a game and there are things a lot bigger going on here.

I totally disagree with you but I respect where you're coming from. I understand your points and they are well intentioned.

That said, I hope Joe Pa does get the chance to finish the season

jojo
11-09-2011, 11:03 PM
This happened in the off season and had nothing to do with the football program. Joe Pa was no where near the facility when this happened. Again, he didn't try to keep this secret to save his buddy or anything. He immediately told the higher ups. If they'd done the investigation and called the police, everyone would be praising Joe Pa today for having handled this properly. Aside from the guy who saw the act and could have stopped it, the villan(s) is the PSU officials

It had everything to do with football program. The dean of Linebacker U assaulted a child in Joe Pa's locker room. It's not like Paterno was traveling the country in an RV when this happened....

jojo
11-09-2011, 11:22 PM
ESPN is reporting that Paterno is out and won't be allowed to finish the season.

kbrake
11-09-2011, 11:24 PM
A defensive coordinator raped a 10 year old boy in the team shower. He then used his Penn State fame to recruit kids to football camps at Penn State branch campuses where he identified kids he could take advantage of. It has everything to do with the football program. Paterno and the coach who witnessed this first hand should be in legal trouble. Kids were raped because these two didn't push the issue. If Paterno's grandson had been violated by a 58 year old man in the shower at Penn State you think JoePa would have acted a little differently? This is disgusting.

dougdirt
11-09-2011, 11:27 PM
ESPN is reporting that Paterno is out and won't be allowed to finish the season.

Thank God. It happened a little later than I would have liked, but am glad that they got it right.

kbrake
11-09-2011, 11:33 PM
This press conference is pathetic. These "journalist" are horrific.

kaldaniels
11-09-2011, 11:39 PM
I can't get over this. Imagine working with 2 employees in close promixity for an extended amount of time. Then one tells you he witnessed a sexual assault such as in this case committed by the other guy. And the 3 of you just continue on for years in a working relationship......what planet are these guys living on?

Chip R
11-09-2011, 11:43 PM
How different is this than the scandals which have rocked the Catholic Church over the years?

Even the most ardent Catholics, a much higher calling than to be a Nittany Lion fan, call for the heads of the priests identified in public. And the higher ups are often accused of turning away or just transferring the culprit.

I'll never understand how such corruption can take place in ANY organization.


That is a great point and one I've been thinking about. You have to know that Paterno - who I believe is Catholic - had heard about the scandals that rocked the Church over the past few decades. You would think he would have learned something from that.

I don't want to say Paterno was the only one culpable and the only one deserving of losing his job however he was the program. I don't believe that anything happened in that program or that affected that program that Paterno didn't know and/or approve of. And that's no different than any other program with a "legend" as a coach. These coaches are czars and have almost complete control over the athletic department. So if Joe Paterno didn't want Sandusky on campus - much less the athletic facilities - he wouldn't have been on campus. That is why he is more culpable than anyone else who failed to report these crimes.

George Anderson
11-10-2011, 12:00 AM
I can't think of another figure in the history of sports that has a more disgraced reputation right now than Jerry Sandusky.

Not only did he do horrible things to young boys but his actions also helped bring down one of the greatest college football coaches of all time.

KronoRed
11-10-2011, 12:05 AM
How the hell does the WR coach still have his job?

Chip R
11-10-2011, 12:07 AM
How the hell does the WR coach still have his job?

Great question.

cincrazy
11-10-2011, 12:08 AM
I can't think of another figure in the history of sports that has a more disgraced reputation right now than Jerry Sandusky.

Not only did he do horrible things to young boys but his actions also helped bring down one of the greatest college football coaches of all time.

I never thought I'd see another story crazier than the Baylor story a few years back. My oh my how wrong I was.

George Anderson
11-10-2011, 12:12 AM
That is a great point and one I've been thinking about. You have to know that Paterno - who I believe is Catholic - had heard about the scandals that rocked the Church over the past few decades. You would think he would have learned something from that.

I don't want to say Paterno was the only one culpable and the only one deserving of losing his job however he was the program. I don't believe that anything happened in that program or that affected that program that Paterno didn't know and/or approve of. And that's no different than any other program with a "legend" as a coach. These coaches are czars and have almost complete control over the athletic department. So if Joe Paterno didn't want Sandusky on campus - much less the athletic facilities - he wouldn't have been on campus. That is why he is more culpable than anyone else who failed to report these crimes.

I grew up Catholic and as I mentioned before the 3 individuals I knew that were busted for child molestation were all involved with sports through the Catholic church. Razor Shines who I used to coach may remember the one individual and trust me, it was no secret he was messing around with and trying to mess around with several of the kids. The guy used to have sleep overs at his house and pay kids to take sleeping pills. I could go into more details of other things that happened but this is the most PG version I can give. The amazing thing is the pastor of our parish knew all about the allegations and there were many, but he choose to ignore them. The other 2 individuals who were also busted and did jail time were also hardly a suprise to anyone. The common response among the many around them was it was time they got caught.

Thats why I have little doubt Paterno didn't know about this stuff, he just choose to ignore it.

Stephenk29
11-10-2011, 12:27 AM
This happened in the off season and had nothing to do with the football program. Joe Pa was no where near the facility when this happened. Again, he didn't try to keep this secret to save his buddy or anything. He immediately told the higher ups. If they'd done the investigation and called the police, everyone would be praising Joe Pa today for having handled this properly. Aside from the guy who saw the act and could have stopped it, the villan(s) is the PSU officials

But that is not necessarily true. Paterno is still legally responsible at this point. He still faces legal issues because it is his responsibility to make sure the police are notified. This is rule #1 for these situations.

Although logically it makes sense that Paterno should be "okay," the law doesn't see it that way. Penn State has to make this decision, although like most, I wish it never got to that point.

kaldaniels
11-10-2011, 12:30 AM
But that is not necessarily true. Paterno is still legally responsible at this point. He still faces legal issues because it is his responsibility to make sure the police are notified. This is rule #1 for these situations.

Although logically it makes sense that Paterno should be "okay," the law doesn't see it that way. Penn State has to make this decision, although like most, I wish it never got to that point.

Is this true? From everything I've read, legally, JoePa is in the clear.

top6
11-10-2011, 12:35 AM
Is this true? From everything I've read, legally, JoePa is in the clear.

He is in the clear criminally, probably, from what I understand.

He may be at risk in a civil lawsuit.

Stephenk29
11-10-2011, 12:37 AM
Is this true? From everything I've read, legally, JoePa is in the clear.

It may be different in the University setting perhaps, but I know that as a teacher (we sometimes get abuse sitations), you not only report the situation to hire ups but you make sure the hire ups follow through (everyone needs to provide documentation for proof of doing your part). If you don't, things get bad, sometimes very bad.

I could be wrong though, but this seems to be a similar setting (college employees just like HS employees).

Chip R
11-10-2011, 12:40 AM
I've been watching this for the past hour and a half and is it just me or does anyone else think that ESPN is trying to get these students to riot?

cincrazy
11-10-2011, 12:41 AM
I've been watching this for the past hour and a half and is it just me or does anyone else think that ESPN is trying to get these students to riot?

Totally feel the same way. ESPN knows it would help their ratings, and they'll do ANYTHING for the bottom line.

Stephenk29
11-10-2011, 12:42 AM
I've been watching this for the past hour and a half and is it just me or does anyone else think that ESPN is trying to get these students to riot?

Agreed. They want every bit of this to explode into the story of the year.

MWM
11-10-2011, 12:44 AM
I saw somewhere on TV tonight that a janitor reported seeing Sandusky giving oral sex to a child in the showers back in 2000 and reported it to his boss and other janitors. Point being, there's no way Paterno didn't know about this. None!

The question that I have is did Paterno continue to have a relationship with Sandusky. Did they still interact, associate with each other, etc... That would be even more telling, IMO.

remdog
11-10-2011, 12:45 AM
I think that the BOT made the right decision and removed Paterno before he coached another game. The President of the university also got axed and that was also the right call, IMO.

In my opinion, this scandal dwarfs anything that the sports scandals of the past that have happened in my lifetime---and, frankly, I'm a lot older than most anyone on this board.

Joe Paterno has forever tarnished his reputation and I will always look at him with shame over a single (in)action.

Rem

MWM
11-10-2011, 12:45 AM
Here's a good link with the timeline of key dates in this. Reading through it makes me angrier. How was this allowed to continue to happen? It's tragic and disgraceful.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7212054/key-dates-penn-state-nittany-lions-sex-abuse-case

Slyder
11-10-2011, 12:47 AM
I saw somewhere on TV tonight that a janitor reported seeing Sandusky giving oral sex to a child in the showers back in 2000 and reported it to his boss and other janitors. Point being, there's no way Paterno didn't know about this. None!

The question that I have is did Paterno continue to have a relationship with Sandusky. Did they still interact, associate with each other, etc... That would be even more telling, IMO.

It wouldn't matter to the national news, theres blood in the water already and they've already carved this story up.

They're judge, jury, and executioner.

dabvu2498
11-10-2011, 12:49 AM
So you'd treat him like he had the resume of Luke Fickell.

Ab. So. Lutely.

There's only one question that needs to be asked here and it has no regard for name, title, tenure, age or anything else:

Do you do everything in your power to protect innocent kids?

If the answer is no, get the hell out.

RBA
11-10-2011, 01:15 AM
ESPN reporting students are rioting turning over media truck.

savafan
11-10-2011, 01:22 AM
Yet McQueary still remains at Penn State? That's the most unfathomable thing to me.

Slyder
11-10-2011, 01:26 AM
Yet McQueary still remains at Penn State? That's the most unfathomable thing to me.

Whistleblower protection? Maybe? Thats the only hail mary attempt I can figure out...

Oh ya btw Mark Madden on his whatever account said its going to get even worse. He says they're just looking into the second mile charity.

Roy Tucker
11-10-2011, 01:36 AM
Ab. So. Lutely.

There's only one question that needs to be asked here and it has no regard for name, title, tenure, age or anything else:

Do you do everything in your power to protect innocent kids?

If the answer is no, get the hell out.

Exactly.

Anything else is displaying an attitude of some degree of tolerance for this kind of stuff (which I think has contributed to institutions allowing it to go on). And think this is a zero tolerance kind of thing.

And I think anyone complicit in these kinds of crimes need to have their chain yanked up short. *Anyone*, regardless of position, tenure, or fame.

Slyder
11-10-2011, 01:37 AM
@MarkMaddenX Mark Madden Don't believe this can get worse? Give it 72 hrs. People really digging into Second Mile. Even more shocking revelation is ahead. Yikes.

KronoRed
11-10-2011, 01:38 AM
One news report said that McQuery was put on leave, no idea if that is accurate, of course his coaching career will be over, can't see any program hiring him now.

Captain Hook
11-10-2011, 01:48 AM
Did you do everything in your power to protect innocent kids?

If the answer is no, get the hell out.

Anyone that thinks JoPa deserved better needs to let this sink in a bit and also think about what these kids could've been protected against.

ervinsm84
11-10-2011, 01:57 AM
vid of psu students flipping over tv truck

http://deadspin.com/5858151/

And this may just be this guy stirring up interest, but hes normally pretty legit in his reports and he claims this is about to get worse. I really dont know how thats even possible and dont wanna speculate.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7079/joepasitgetsworse.jpg

Slyder
11-10-2011, 02:01 AM
I hope they don't escalate, I have a friend who's an assistant soccer coach there at Penn State. Fortunately the soccer team isn't on campus right now. I don't think.

There's no need for more stupidity on top of the legal situation the school is already having to deal with.

Razor Shines
11-10-2011, 02:13 AM
I grew up Catholic and as I mentioned before the 3 individuals I knew that were busted for child molestation were all involved with sports through the Catholic church. Razor Shines who I used to coach may remember the one individual and trust me, it was no secret he was messing around with and trying to mess around with several of the kids. The guy used to have sleep overs at his house and pay kids to take sleeping pills. I could go into more details of other things that happened but this is the most PG version I can give. The amazing thing is the pastor of our parish knew all about the allegations and there were many, but he choose to ignore them. The other 2 individuals who were also busted and did jail time were also hardly a suprise to anyone. The common response among the many around them was it was time they got caught.

Thats why I have little doubt Paterno didn't know about this stuff, he just choose to ignore it.

Yes I know. He coached me in basketball and baseball my 7th grade year. I didn't go to the church and I never spent any time with him outside of practice and games but I knew the kids that he did stuff to. I was invited to a few of the sleep overs, I recall, but either we had other things to do or my parents didn't let me go. I didn't find out about it all until after the season when he was arrested though, I didn't go to the school either so I had no idea what was going on but apparently some of the kids did. Part of the reason this Penn St. thing hits a little close to home for me I guess.

Captain Hook
11-10-2011, 02:21 AM
These students at PSU really think that Paterno should be allowed to continue coaching despite being a big part of covering up some unbelievably terrible things going on under his watch?I wonder what they'd do if he'd been fired for covering for a few players that got some free tattoos?

savafan
11-10-2011, 02:35 AM
@MarkMaddenX Mark Madden Don't believe this can get worse? Give it 72 hrs. People really digging into Second Mile. Even more shocking revelation is ahead. Yikes.

I think we're about to find out that there was a very terrible reason for why Sandusky founded Second Mile, and it had nothing to do with helping kids. As if we couldn't already assume that.

Caveat Emperor
11-10-2011, 02:44 AM
And this may just be this guy stirring up interest, but hes normally pretty legit in his reports and he claims this is about to get worse. I really dont know how thats even possible and dont wanna speculate.

This guy is quite legit, as far as sports bloggers go.

Here's where the story is undoubtedly going to get worse: for every 1 victim of sexual abuse (especially male-on-male sexual abuse, due to the lingering social stigma attached to homosexuality) who comes forward, there are always a dozen more who stay silent.

With the number of victims who have already come forward against Sandusky, you have to believe there are a large number who have stayed silent thus far. Once the story is out there, more will come forward to have their voice heard.

WMR
11-10-2011, 02:44 AM
This isn't about me or my feet. It's about Paterno and PSU. You're free to disagree with the way I see it and I'll do the same with you

Thing is, I think pretty much everyone disagrees with you (clearly the people at Penn State disagree). That's why RFS posted what he did.

savafan
11-10-2011, 02:45 AM
CBS Chicago reporter Dan Bernstein (@dan_berstein) claims that there is evidence that there were/are other men at the Second Mile that were having inappropriate relationships with children.

Razor Shines
11-10-2011, 02:48 AM
Here's a good link with the timeline of key dates in this. Reading through it makes me angrier. How was this allowed to continue to happen? It's tragic and disgraceful.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7212054/key-dates-penn-state-nittany-lions-sex-abuse-case

Wow. That's as bad as I could imagine it looking for Paterno and the whole bunch of them. How could anyone still think he should have been allowed to be employed by Penn St. one second longer than he was?

savafan
11-10-2011, 02:52 AM
Also, the district attorney that chose not to prosecute Sandusky in 1998, the one that went missing, was on the Second Mile board.

Caveat Emperor
11-10-2011, 02:52 AM
Joe Pa's got a lot on his plate with running the football team so he leaves it at that and doesn't give it another thought. I think that's very plausible.

If you've ever actually experienced dealing with allegations that a young child has been sexually abused (and I have, numerous times, as part of my job), I can tell you quite conclusively that you don't simply put it off your plate.

Because, here is what Joe Paterno was told (in effect):

"I saw your former assistant coach, who worked for you for 30 years, who runs a charitable organization for young children and associates with young children on a daily basis, and who maintains an office on campus that he visits every day, anally raping a 10 year old in your football team's locker room."

If you can put that out of your mind and assume it's been taken care of just because you don't hear anything else about it, God help you as a human being.

And that's not even getting into the fact that if you DON'T believe that's true, you continued to employ the accuser on your staff? Really? You call an assistant coach of 30 years a pedophile and get to keep your job? If Paterno really believed Sandusky was innocent, that kid would've been on the next bus out of Happy Valley for lying.

Razor Shines
11-10-2011, 02:55 AM
If you've ever actually experienced dealing with allegations that a young child has been sexually abused (and I have, numerous times, as part of my job), I can tell you quite conclusively that you don't simply put it off your plate.

Because, here is what Joe Paterno was told (in effect):

"I saw your former assistant coach, who worked for you for 30 years, who runs a charitable organization for young children and associates with young children on a daily basis, and who maintains an office on campus that he visits every day, anally raping a 10 year old in your football team's locker room."

If you can put that out of your mind and assume it's been taken care of just because you don't hear anything else about it, God help you as a human being.

And that's not even getting into the fact that if you DON'T believe that's true, you continued to employ the accuser on your staff? Really? You call an assistant coach of 30 years a pedophile and get to keep your job? If Paterno really believed Sandusky was innocent, that kid would've been on the next bus out of Happy Valley for lying.

Great post. There's no way Paterno thought the GA was lying. No one could convince me that Paterno didn't know about all (or at least some) of the past allegations against Sandusky.

ervinsm84
11-10-2011, 02:56 AM
These students at PSU really think that Paterno should be allowed to continue coaching despite being a big part of covering up some unbelievably terrible things going on under his watch?

What they are doing is really absurd to say the least. A lot of the stuff almost feels like a pep rally in favor of Joepa and "we are Penn State." Just a terrible culture created there. If youre a bengal fan and a member of their main posting forum, youd be blown away by the stuff some of the bengals fans are saying there too. They claim the media is just out to get joe and its a witch hunt or what not. The average poster IQ and moral compass on redszone is so much > than on the bengals forum.


This guy is quite legit, as far as sports bloggers go.

Here's where the story is undoubtedly going to get worse: for every 1 victim of sexual abuse (especially male-on-male sexual abuse, due to the lingering social stigma attached to homosexuality) who comes forward, there are always a dozen more who stay silent.

With the number of victims who have already come forward against Sandusky, you have to believe there are a large number who have stayed silent thus far. Once the story is out there, more will come forward to have their voice heard.
Youre def right on the numbers.

I know i read one report where there was a survey conducted of pedophiles in jail about their number of victims and I think the average # of kids was around 130-140 victims per person. Given this guy had a charity started in 77 and was still bringing kids around in 07 to practice, thats prob at least 30 years. If he has 3-4 kids a year average its not even that unlikely that he abused more than 100 kids. puke vomit disgustin


CBS Chicago reporter Dan Bernstein (@dan_berstein) claims that there is evidence that there were/are other men at the Second Mile that were having inappropriate relationships with children.

Holy **** If that is true, there are no words to describe it.

WMR
11-10-2011, 02:56 AM
If you've ever actually experienced dealing with allegations that a young child has been sexually abused (and I have, numerous times, as part of my job), I can tell you quite conclusively that you don't simply put it off your plate.

Because, here is what Joe Paterno was told (in effect):

"I saw your former assistant coach, who worked for you for 30 years, who runs a charitable organization for young children and associates with young children on a daily basis, and who maintains an office on campus that he visits every day, anally raping a 10 year old in your football team's locker room."

If you can put that out of your mind and assume it's been taken care of just because you don't hear anything else about it, God help you as a human being.

And that's not even getting into the fact that if you DON'T believe that's true, you continued to employ the accuser on your staff? Really? You call an assistant coach of 30 years a pedophile and get to keep your job? If Paterno really believed Sandusky was innocent, that kid would've been on the next bus out of Happy Valley for lying.

Exactly, great post.

RFS62
11-10-2011, 03:20 AM
If you've ever actually experienced dealing with allegations that a young child has been sexually abused (and I have, numerous times, as part of my job), I can tell you quite conclusively that you don't simply put it off your plate.

Because, here is what Joe Paterno was told (in effect):

"I saw your former assistant coach, who worked for you for 30 years, who runs a charitable organization for young children and associates with young children on a daily basis, and who maintains an office on campus that he visits every day, anally raping a 10 year old in your football team's locker room."

If you can put that out of your mind and assume it's been taken care of just because you don't hear anything else about it, God help you as a human being.

And that's not even getting into the fact that if you DON'T believe that's true, you continued to employ the accuser on your staff? Really? You call an assistant coach of 30 years a pedophile and get to keep your job? If Paterno really believed Sandusky was innocent, that kid would've been on the next bus out of Happy Valley for lying.


Well said.

redsfandan
11-10-2011, 08:07 AM
That is a great point and one I've been thinking about. You have to know that Paterno - who I believe is Catholic - had heard about the scandals that rocked the Church over the past few decades. You would think he would have learned something from that.

I don't want to say Paterno was the only one culpable and the only one deserving of losing his job however he was the program. I don't believe that anything happened in that program or that affected that program that Paterno didn't know and/or approve of. And that's no different than any other program with a "legend" as a coach. These coaches are czars and have almost complete control over the athletic department. So if Joe Paterno didn't want Sandusky on campus - much less the athletic facilities - he wouldn't have been on campus. That is why he is more culpable than anyone else who failed to report these crimes.
Paterno is 84 years old. I'm sure he was aware of some things but, at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if someone that old missed something.

Yet McQueary still remains at Penn State? That's the most unfathomable thing to me.

Apparently the interim head coach is going to hold an 11:00 am news conference at which time he might address the status of McQueary. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rapid-reports/post/16055896


Here's a statement that Paterno released early Thursday morning:
"I am disappointed with the Board of Trustees' decision, but I have to accept it. A tragedy occurred, and we all have to have patience to let the legal process proceed. I appreciate the outpouring of support but want to emphasize that everyone should remain calm and please respect the university, its property and all that we value. I have been incredibly blessed to spend my entire career working with people I love. I am grateful beyond words to all of the coaches, players and staff who have been a part of this program. And to all of our fans and supporters, my family and I will be forever in your debt."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rapid-reports/post/16055837

TeamSelig
11-10-2011, 08:25 AM
Wonder if Joe was on that Second Mile board

savafan
11-10-2011, 08:29 AM
Wonder if Joe was on that Second Mile board

He was on the honororary board along with names like Lou Holtz, Cal Ripken, Matt Millen, Mark Wahlberg and others.

bucksfan2
11-10-2011, 09:52 AM
Now that Joe has been fired I wonder if the likes of ESPN, SI, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. will cover the actual trial to the extent they covered Joe. The sad truth is they aggressive media got their wish, Joe Pa to be fired, but will be long gone when it comes to actual reporting on Sandusky and the actual victims. I imagine you will see a blurb on the bottom line a year or so from now saying that Sandusky has been found guilty.

jojo
11-10-2011, 10:01 AM
Now that Joe has been fired I wonder if the likes of ESPN, SI, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. will cover the actual trial to the extent they covered Joe. The sad truth is they aggressive media got their wish, Joe Pa to be fired, but will be long gone when it comes to actual reporting on Sandusky and the actual victims. I imagine you will see a blurb on the bottom line a year or so from now saying that Sandusky has been found guilty.

I bet this story will have some traction if it has as many victims as feared. The lawsuits alone could crippple Penn State if Sandusky used the shower as his lair and its reasonable to believe that Penn State officials should have done more. This is a big story regardless of Paterno.

Paterno fired.... Who thought they'd ever hear that?

Caveat Emperor
11-10-2011, 10:05 AM
Now that Joe has been fired I wonder if the likes of ESPN, SI, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. will cover the actual trial to the extent they covered Joe. The sad truth is they aggressive media got their wish, Joe Pa to be fired, but will be long gone when it comes to actual reporting on Sandusky and the actual victims. I imagine you will see a blurb on the bottom line a year or so from now saying that Sandusky has been found guilty.

Are you suggesting, somehow, that Joe Paterno has been unfairly treated here? Because if you are, that's pretty laughable. He was given a direct, first-hand, eyewitness account of a child being raped inside his locker room by a person who he knew very well. He knew this person had unrestricted access to the University (including an office on campus). More damning -- he KNEW that this man ran a charitable organization that put him in direct contact with young children every single day.

He did not contact the police.

Let that sink in for a second. Joe Paterno knew that a man who brought kids with him on road trips, brought kids with him onto campus, and let kids stay at his house. And he said NOTHING to any police agency. He said NOTHING to child protective services. He said NOTHING to the other people who attach their names to this charitable organization. He sat silently and allowed this predator to continue associating with kids every, single day.

Or, you can choose to be a Joe Paterno enabler and believe that he did his due diligence and assumed that the allegations where unfounded. OK. Fine. Then why in the hell did he let McQueary remain on staff? If you're to assume that Paterno believed that the police cleared Sandusky of wrongdoing, then that means you believe he allowed a member of his staff to remain who falsely accused someone of being a pedophile -- and not just anyone, a trusted member of Paterno's inner circle for 30 years.

If someone called you, shaken up, and told you that he just saw one of your close associates raping a child and you later found out that he was lying, would you ever associate with that person again? Would you employ that person? Would you trust part of YOUR livelihood (football success) to that person?

B.S.

Joe Paterno got EXACTLY what he deserved in this case. How many more victims did Sandusky have after this incident? Their blood is on the hands of Joe Paterno and Penn State University. How many past victims had to live with the shame these extra 10 years because Joe Paterno never brought this scumbag to justice? Their pain is on Joe Paterno's hands.

Sandusky is a monster. There is no question about that. He deserves the death penalty in my mind, and it's a shame that he can never know the horror he inflicted on these innocent victims. Paterno isn't a monster -- he's something far more insidious: a man who was willing to look the other way. He may never see the inside of a courtroom or a jail cell, but I hope his life from this point forward is a personal hell tormented by the thoughts of all the children he could have helped but failed.

ervinsm84
11-10-2011, 10:11 AM
Are you suggesting, somehow, that Joe Paterno has been unfairly treated here? Because if you are, that's pretty laughable. He was given a direct, first-hand, eyewitness account of a child being raped inside his locker room by a person who he knew very well. He knew this person had unrestricted access to the University (including an office on campus). More damning -- he KNEW that this man ran a charitable organization that put him in direct contact with young children every single day.

He did not contact the police.

Let that sink in for a second. Joe Paterno knew that a man who brought kids with him on road trips, brought kids with him onto campus, and let kids stay at his house. And he said NOTHING to any police agency. He said NOTHING to child protective services. He said NOTHING to the other people who attach their names to this charitable organization. He sat silently and allowed this predator to continue associating with kids every, single day.

Or, you can choose to be a Joe Paterno enabler and believe that he did his due diligence and assumed that the allegations where unfounded. OK. Fine. Then why in the hell did he let McQueary remain on staff? If you're to assume that Paterno believed that the police cleared Sandusky of wrongdoing, then that means you believe he allowed a member of his staff to remain who falsely accused someone of being a pedophile -- and not just anyone, a trusted member of Paterno's inner circle for 30 years.

If someone called you, shaken up, and told you that he just saw one of your close associates raping a child and you later found out that he was lying, would you ever associate with that person again? Would you employ that person? Would you trust part of YOUR livelihood (football success) to that person?

B.S.

Joe Paterno got EXACTLY what he deserved in this case. How many more victims did Sandusky have after this incident? Their blood is on the hands of Joe Paterno and Penn State University. How many past victims had to live with the shame these extra 10 years because Joe Paterno never brought this scumbag to justice? Their pain is on Joe Paterno's hands.

Sandusky is a monster. There is no question about that. He deserves the death penalty in my mind, and it's a shame that he can never know the horror he inflicted on these innocent victims. Paterno isn't a monster -- he's something far more insidious: a man who was willing to look the other way. He may never see the inside of a courtroom or a jail cell, but I hope his life from this point forward is a personal hell tormented by the thoughts of all the children he could have helped but failed.
+1 million

summed up perfectly.

jojo
11-10-2011, 10:12 AM
Paterno and the PSU adminsitration provided Sandusky his inner sanctum.

BTW, Paterno was Sandusky's supervisor even after he retired.

RFS62
11-10-2011, 10:26 AM
Are you suggesting, somehow, that Joe Paterno has been unfairly treated here? Because if you are, that's pretty laughable. He was given a direct, first-hand, eyewitness account of a child being raped inside his locker room by a person who he knew very well. He knew this person had unrestricted access to the University (including an office on campus). More damning -- he KNEW that this man ran a charitable organization that put him in direct contact with young children every single day.

He did not contact the police.

Let that sink in for a second. Joe Paterno knew that a man who brought kids with him on road trips, brought kids with him onto campus, and let kids stay at his house. And he said NOTHING to any police agency. He said NOTHING to child protective services. He said NOTHING to the other people who attach their names to this charitable organization. He sat silently and allowed this predator to continue associating with kids every, single day.

Or, you can choose to be a Joe Paterno enabler and believe that he did his due diligence and assumed that the allegations where unfounded. OK. Fine. Then why in the hell did he let McQueary remain on staff? If you're to assume that Paterno believed that the police cleared Sandusky of wrongdoing, then that means you believe he allowed a member of his staff to remain who falsely accused someone of being a pedophile -- and not just anyone, a trusted member of Paterno's inner circle for 30 years.

If someone called you, shaken up, and told you that he just saw one of your close associates raping a child and you later found out that he was lying, would you ever associate with that person again? Would you employ that person? Would you trust part of YOUR livelihood (football success) to that person?

B.S.

Joe Paterno got EXACTLY what he deserved in this case. How many more victims did Sandusky have after this incident? Their blood is on the hands of Joe Paterno and Penn State University. How many past victims had to live with the shame these extra 10 years because Joe Paterno never brought this scumbag to justice? Their pain is on Joe Paterno's hands.

Sandusky is a monster. There is no question about that. He deserves the death penalty in my mind, and it's a shame that he can never know the horror he inflicted on these innocent victims. Paterno isn't a monster -- he's something far more insidious: a man who was willing to look the other way. He may never see the inside of a courtroom or a jail cell, but I hope his life from this point forward is a personal hell tormented by the thoughts of all the children he could have helped but failed.



One more in a long line of excellent posts, my friend.

:clap:

krm1580
11-10-2011, 10:57 AM
CBS Chicago reporter Dan Bernstein (@dan_berstein) claims that there is evidence that there were/are other men at the Second Mile that were having inappropriate relationships with children.

I live in the Philly area and this thing is about to get a lot worse. The rumblings are that for lack of a better word Sandusky was pimping out kids to rich donors of his foundation.

Caveat Emperor
11-10-2011, 11:05 AM
I live in the Philly area and this thing is about to get a lot worse. The rumblings are that for lack of a better word Sandusky was pimping out kids to rich donors of his foundation.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-donors-2011-11

reds1869
11-10-2011, 11:11 AM
http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-donors-2011-11

Whoa. That is some shocking stuff.