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savafan
11-08-2011, 06:40 PM
ALLsportsINTEL Rich Smith
BREAKING MLB UPDATE - Jose Reyes and the Miami Marlins have reportedly agreed in principle to a deal likely to be finalized tomorrow


https://twitter.com/#!/ALLsportsINTEL

savafan
11-08-2011, 06:45 PM
Marlins also reportedly met with agent for Mark Buehrle today. Hanley Ramirez to play 3rd.

redsfandan
11-08-2011, 06:48 PM
Wow.

MikeThierry
11-08-2011, 06:56 PM
Wow, this is shocking.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 07:00 PM
Wow, this is shocking.

Is it? I have been hearing for weeks that the Marlins were going to go hard after him. Did you not hear it or just not believe it?

savafan
11-08-2011, 07:01 PM
Buehrle given tour of new stadium, trip around the city and a stop at the beach today.

Miami also hopes to talk with Prince Fielder and Albert Pujols, and they'll have Cuban Yoenis Cespedes in on Thursday. Marlins making a huge push for Ozzie Guillen.

redsfandan
11-08-2011, 07:02 PM
Is it? I have been hearing for weeks that the Marlins were going to go hard after him. Did you not hear it or just not believe it?

Fans hear alot of stuff about who is going where. For the Marlins to make this BIG of a move THIS EARLY in the free agency signing period is big news.

The offseason wheeling and dealing has started off with a bang. Hopefully the Reds join in the fun.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 07:05 PM
Fans hear alot of stuff about who is going where. For the Marlins to make this BIG of a move THIS EARLY in the free agency signing period is big news.
Big news, sure. Shocking or even surprising? I am not so sure there. Been hearing a lot about this for weeks.


The offseason wheeling and dealing has started off with a bang. Hopefully the Reds join in the fun.
Don't hold your breathe....

savafan
11-08-2011, 07:08 PM
There's this:

@SedanoShow Jorge Sedano
Spoke to a Marlins source who tells me Internet rumors of team signing Jose Reyes are false. No signings yet.

With this response:

ALLsportsINTEL Rich Smith
@SedanoShow Understand, will have to see it play out, regardless if it happens tomorrow I'm told it will happen. Marlins being aggressive.

Since the report was an agreement in principle with signing to be announced tomorrow when Reyes is scheduled to be in Miami, I can see it happening.

MikeThierry
11-08-2011, 07:14 PM
Fans hear alot of stuff about who is going where. For the Marlins to make this BIG of a move THIS EARLY in the free agency signing period is big news.

The offseason wheeling and dealing has started off with a bang. Hopefully the Reds join in the fun.

^This,dougdirt. There is speculation all over the place. It is shocking from the standpoint that this one of the first times in the Marlins history that they are aggressive in the free agency market. That is why it is shocking to me.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 07:15 PM
^This,dougdirt. There is speculation all over the place. It is shocking from the standpoint that this one of the first times in the Marlins history that they are aggressive in the free agency market. That is why it is shocking to me.

Not around in 1997?

And while they haven't been aggressive since, everything pointed to them being so this year with the new stadium opening up.

savafan
11-08-2011, 07:17 PM
^This,dougdirt. There is speculation all over the place. It is shocking from the standpoint that this one of the first times in the Marlins history that they are aggressive in the free agency market. That is why it is shocking to me.

Weren't they pretty aggressive in 2003?

Brutus
11-08-2011, 07:21 PM
Is it? I have been hearing for weeks that the Marlins were going to go hard after him. Did you not hear it or just not believe it?

Going after him and actually signing him are two entirely different things. I think signing him is shocking and I had heard for a month they would go after him.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 07:23 PM
Going after him and actually signing him are two entirely different things. I think signing him is shocking and I had heard for a month they would go after him.

So what makes it shocking then?

Brutus
11-08-2011, 07:24 PM
So what makes it shocking then?

Like I said... trying and actually doing are two different things. I'm shocked they got it done.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 07:25 PM
Like I said... trying and actually doing are two different things. I'm shocked they got it done.

I guess I don't get the part that shocks you. Is it that the Marlins actually forked up the money? That Reyes is heading there to play over another place that probably would have paid as much? That it happened as quickly as it did?

MikeThierry
11-08-2011, 07:29 PM
Maybe I should rephrase. They have a history of being a cheap organization that doesn't spend a lot of money.

mth123
11-08-2011, 07:32 PM
The shocking part, if this really happens tomorrow, is that on November 8th, well before the off-season has even gotten going the Marlins made such an offer to Reyes that he's already agreed and is ready to sign without even trying to shop himself around for another few weeks to get the bidding up.

I'm not really shocked that he Marlins got him. I'm pretty shocked that he's already agreed and isn't trying to run up the price so early in the off-season.

savafan
11-08-2011, 07:35 PM
The shocking part, if this really happens tomorrow, is that on November 8th, well before the off-season has even gotten going the Marlins made such an offer to Reyes that he's already agreed and is ready to sign without even trying to shop himself around for another few weeks to get the bidding up.

I'm not really shocked that he Marlins got him. I'm pretty shocked that he's already agreed and isn't trying to run up the price so early in the off-season.

According to the report, Reyes gave the Mets a chance to match or beat the Marlins offer and they were no where close.

mth123
11-08-2011, 07:43 PM
According to the report, Reyes gave the Mets a chance to match or beat the Marlins offer and they were no where close.

Not surprised. Just wondring about taking that offer to places like Philly, Boston, Atlanta etc to see if they would want to up the offer. If he's already had time to do that and concluded that the Marlins offer was as good as he'll get, then the Marlins must have given him their top offer from the get go and I find that shocking as well.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 08:00 PM
Not surprised. Just wondring about taking that offer to places like Philly, Boston, Atlanta etc to see if they would want to up the offer. If he's already had time to do that and concluded that the Marlins offer was as good as he'll get, then the Marlins must have given him their top offer from the get go and I find that shocking as well.

Assuming he was going to go to the highest bidder and didn't have three or four teams he was interested in playing for, then I am sure his agent shopped him around plenty. How long does it honestly take to shop him around? You can call every team in baseball in a day. You can call them all back the next day saying "X team is offering us this deal, what do you have to counter that?"

klw
11-08-2011, 08:05 PM
Odd thing is that I see nothing about this anywhere else- no mlbtraderumors, fox sports, espn, etc

cinreds21
11-08-2011, 08:10 PM
It's false. They haven't signed him. They haven't even met with him yet. They do that tomorrow.

Brutus
11-08-2011, 08:15 PM
It's false. They haven't signed him. They haven't even met with him yet. They do that tomorrow.

The report said nothing about signing him or having met him. It only said they had a deal in principle and would meet tomorrow.

That's very common, as you know. Many deals are made without having met face to face.

cinreds21
11-08-2011, 08:17 PM
Touché.

mth123
11-08-2011, 08:40 PM
Assuming he was going to go to the highest bidder and didn't have three or four teams he was interested in playing for, then I am sure his agent shopped him around plenty. How long does it honestly take to shop him around? You can call every team in baseball in a day. You can call them all back the next day saying "X team is offering us this deal, what do you have to counter that?"

Sure, but what's the rush? Maybe Rollins or Furcal comes off the market and one of those teams that wasn't interested may suddenly develop interest.

When was the last time such a major free agent who didn't go back to his own team signed this early? I can't remember one. I think the only explanation is that the Marlins went way over what everyone was expecting.

Brutus
11-08-2011, 09:08 PM
I guess I don't get the part that shocks you. Is it that the Marlins actually forked up the money? That Reyes is heading there to play over another place that probably would have paid as much? That it happened as quickly as it did?

I'm not sure what there is to explain. I've said it twice: it's one thing to say you're going to do it, it's another thing to pull it off. There are a lot of moving parts to getting a deal done. If they get it done, that's shocking to me. There are a number of reasons too numerous to mention, but it doesn't have to be out of the blue to be surprising, does it?

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 09:13 PM
but it doesn't have to be out of the blue to be surprising, does it?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surprising

By definition.... yes, it does. When we have been hearing about it for weeks, it shouldn't surprise you when it happens. Maybe I am crazy though.

jojo
11-08-2011, 09:17 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surprising

By definition.... yes, it does. When we have been hearing about it for weeks, it shouldn't surprise you when it happens. Maybe I am crazy though.

You're not crazy.

Brutus
11-08-2011, 09:18 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surprising

By definition.... yes, it does. When we have been hearing about it for weeks, it shouldn't surprise you when it happens. Maybe I am crazy though.

Why can't it be "unexpected" that he was actually signed by the Marlins?

If I say I'm going to play and win the lottery, and I do so, wouldn't you still be surprised I was right? Just because I say I'm going to do something doesn't mean I will be able to pull it off. This is a much smaller scale, but just because it was reported the Marlins were going after Reyes doesn't mean it's expected they would actually pull it off.

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 09:19 PM
Why can't it be "unexpected" that he was actually signed by the Marlins?

If I say I'm going to play and win the lottery, and I do so, wouldn't you still be surprised I was right? Just because I say I'm going to do something doesn't mean I will be able to pull it off. This is a much smaller scale, but just because it was reported the Marlins were going after Reyes doesn't mean it's expected they would actually pull it off.

If you were one of maybe 10 people to play the lottery and were willing to spend more money on lottery tickets than the other 9 guys, thus increasing your chances of winning, no, it wouldn't be a surprise if you won.

Brutus
11-08-2011, 09:22 PM
If you were one of maybe 10 people to play the lottery and were willing to spend more money on lottery tickets than the other 9 guys, thus increasing your chances of winning, no, it wouldn't be a surprise if you won.

Increasing your chances and having the best chances are two different things. And unlike my lottery example, that doesn't guarantee that the other party will agree to my offer even if it's the most money on paper.

I'm not sure I understand why you think someone can be surprised by a result even if they knew the possibility existed. It's not difficult to differentiate knowing something to be possible and actually expecting it to come to fruition. After all, why do you think the expression "I'll believe it when I see it" exists?

dougdirt
11-08-2011, 09:24 PM
Increasing your chances and having the best chances are two different things. And unlike my lottery example, that doesn't guarantee that the other party will agree to my offer even if it's the most money on paper.

I'm not sure I understand why you think someone can be surprised by a result even if they knew the possibility existed. It's not difficult to differentiate knowing something to be possible and actually expecting it to come to fruition. After all, why do you think the expression "I'll believe it when I see it" exists?

Probably exists for things that are much larger odds than 1 out of 8 or better, for sure.

Brutus
11-08-2011, 09:29 PM
Probably exists for things that are much larger odds than 1 out of 8 or better, for sure.

This is pretty silly, Doug.

You're completely conflating two very distinct things:

Being surprised by the Marlins going after Reyes versus the Marlins actually signing Reyes are totally different. I'm not at all surprised by the former. I'm completely surprised by the possibility of the latter.

For this to work, they had to (probably) spend the most money, be comfortable that Hanley is OK with moving to a different position and hope the client wants to play there.

Whether that's 1 out of 2, 1 out of 8 or what have you, it's still surprising. By your very definition, it was unexpected. I did not "expect" the Marlins to land Reyes, so thereby, by definition, I am "surprised" if they do. I think that makes it pretty clear, and I used terms that you yourself have defined.

lollipopcurve
11-09-2011, 08:53 AM
It would be stunning for a free agent like Reyes to sign so quickly. The rule has been for the big names to wait until at least the winter meetings. Personally, I'd love to see the process move a little more quickly.

Chip R
11-09-2011, 09:10 AM
Perhaps the title of this thread should be changed until there is actually a signing to report. I'm not sure Twitter is a legitimate source.

TRF
11-09-2011, 09:28 AM
I'm surprised there was three pages devoted to the definition of surprised.

Wait, this is redszone. I'm not surprised at all. I'm surprised it took this long to have it.

_Sir_Charles_
11-09-2011, 10:20 AM
I'm surprised there was three pages devoted to the definition of surprised.

Wait, this is redszone. I'm not surprised at all. I'm surprised it took this long to have it.

LOL. I was thinking the exact same thing TRF. :O)

This is a sure sign that the off-season is officially here. A legitimate baseball discussion turns into a vocabulary debate. *grin*

redsfandan
11-09-2011, 10:31 AM
Perhaps the title of this thread should be changed until there is actually a signing to report. I'm not sure Twitter is a legitimate source.

But, but ... it was on the internet. :( ;)

CySeymour
11-09-2011, 10:50 AM
I'm surprised there was three pages devoted to the definition of surprised.

Wait, this is redszone. I'm not surprised at all. I'm surprised it took this long to have it.

So, the surprise at the surprise or perceived surprise was surprising.




Oh Lord, I have a headache now.... :D

Dan
11-09-2011, 10:54 AM
Can we now discuss what the definition of 'is' is?

Bumstead
11-09-2011, 11:19 AM
I'm surprised there was three pages devoted to the definition of surprised.

Wait, this is redszone. I'm not surprised at all. I'm surprised it took this long to have it.

Thanks TRF! This made me laugh harder than the debate regarding the meaning of "surprised." For the record, I am not "surprised."

Bum

klw
11-09-2011, 11:33 AM
I'm surprised there was three pages devoted to the definition of surprised.

Wait, this is redszone. I'm not surprised at all. I'm surprised it took this long to have it.

Bruce Springsteen - Surprise Surprise - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUw9zLK5yso)

757690
11-09-2011, 12:16 PM
This guy obviously hadn't been keeping up with Redszone, judging by his reaction to hearing that Reyes had signed with the Marlins...

Prairie Dog Surprise - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk-J4aHH9Sk&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Benihana
11-09-2011, 03:34 PM
Guillen has been very helpful in recruiting free agents, according to Samson. The Marlins are meeting with Jose Reyes today, and one Mets person told John Harper of the New York Daily News the Marlins plan to offer Reyes a high-salary, three-year deal.
www.mlbtraderumors.com

I would LOVE the Reds to offer a high-salary, three-year deal. Sure, that would mean that we couldn't sign BP beyond 2012, but we could slide Cozart over to 2B for 2013 and 2014, and still have a window to re-sign Votto (we'd only have one year of Reyes -and no Phillips- on the books at that point).

IMO, that would give the Reds the best chance to compete in 2012 and 2013:

SS Reyes
2B Phillips (Cozart in 2013)
1B Votto
RF Bruce
LF Alonso
CF Stubbs/Heisey
3B Rolen/Francisco
C Mesoraco

And still have payflex after 2014 with both Reyes and Phillips gone. Of course, all this assumes that Reyes would be willing to take a three year deal...

You could still trade Alonso for Pineda at that point to improve the pitching staff, and slide Heisey/Francisco over to LF.

savafan
11-09-2011, 05:26 PM
ALLsportsINTEL Rich Smith
No official word on Jose Reyes signing with the Marlins as of yet, still being told that Reyes will absolutely be a Marlin.


The dude says his source has never let him down before, FWIW.

Benihana
11-09-2011, 05:33 PM
The dude says his source has never let him down before, FWIW.

How many times have we heard this?

For the record, I wouldn't be surprised if Reyes does in fact end up signing with Miami. But relying on "the dude with some source" is typical message board fodder (as opposed to REDSZONE message board fodder.)

Hollcat
11-09-2011, 05:39 PM
I hope he does sign with them that way he is not an option for the Cardinals should they not resign Pujols.

RedsManRick
11-09-2011, 05:40 PM
How many times have we heard this?

For the record, I wouldn't be surprised if Reyes does in fact end up signing with Miami. But relying on "the dude with some source" is typical message board fodder (as opposed to REDSZONE message board fodder.)

No kidding. But really, if a reporter keeps using a source that has let him down in the past, he's the whose credibility we'd question. So if you're giving me info from a source you aren't confident in, don't.

savafan
11-09-2011, 06:15 PM
For the record, I wouldn't be surprised if Reyes does in fact end up signing with Miami. But relying on "the dude with some source" is typical message board fodder (as opposed to REDSZONE message board fodder.)

Actually, this is more the rule than the exception of how news breaks in our current era.

savafan
11-11-2011, 07:24 PM
http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/181985-going-fishing


The Florida Marlins met with free agent shortstop Jose Reyes this week and the signing is, "almost a done deal," according to Miami's 790 The Ticket.

savafan
11-15-2011, 02:16 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111115&content_id=25976548&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb


The figures, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FoxSports.com, are six years and $90 million.

dougdirt
11-15-2011, 03:59 PM
Fangraphs Dave Cameron's take (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-jose-reyes-suffering-from-carl-crawford-backlash/)



Both reached the Majors at age 20 and became free agents after their age 28 seasons, and both players rely on the same basic offensive skillset to provide value. Here are Crawford’s numbers from 2002 to 2010 compared with Reyes’ same numbers from 2003 to 2011.



Name PA BB% K% ISO BABIP AVG OBP SLG wOBA wRC+ BsR
Craw 5395 5.40% 14.20% 0.148 0.331 0.296 0.337 0.444 0.347 113 21
Reyes 4840 6.90% 10.50% 0.149 0.314 0.292 0.341 0.441 0.346 112 18.5

Low walk, high contact, gap-hitting speedsters with nearly identical offensive results over 5,000 plate appearances. You really don’t find two more similar hitters than this very often, and for them to hit free agency at the same age in back to back years makes the comparison even easier. In reality, there are only two differences that should significantly affect their value:

You can see more at the above link.

It is an interesting thought as the two players are incredibly similar in their overall production and skillset, but one guy likely gets a TON more just one year later.

NJReds
11-15-2011, 04:06 PM
Fangraphs Dave Cameron's take (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-jose-reyes-suffering-from-carl-crawford-backlash/)



You can see more at the above link.

It is an interesting thought as the two players are incredibly similar in their overall production and skillset, but one guy likely gets a TON more just one year later.

Reyes has had multiple injuries to his hamstrings throughout his career. His whole game is speed. That has to be a big part of the difference in dollars.