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fewfirstchoice
11-09-2011, 05:20 PM
Washington needs a CF and we need SS. So how bout this.

Chris Heisey
For
Ian Desmond

I know Cincy had Cozart but I like Desmonds upside quite a bit more.

LegallyMinded
11-09-2011, 07:12 PM
Washington needs a CF and we need SS. So how bout this.

Chris Heisey
For
Ian Desmond

I know Cincy had Cozart but I like Desmonds upside quite a bit more.

How much upside does Desmond really have? In his second year in the league, his average, OBP and SLG all declined despite a BABIP that remained constant. In fact, his OBP was even lower than Renteria's, which is pretty hard to pull off.

dMaus14
11-10-2011, 01:54 PM
I still stand by that the most effective trade for the Reds present and future is with the Blue Jays involving Votto. The main problems the reds have is at SS, LF and SP. SP is a problem not only at the MLB level but also that there are no top pitching prospects above AA. The Blue Jays are stacked with pitching prospects and AA and AAA.

Reds get: Yunel Escobar (signed through 2015?), Brandon Morrow, Kyle Drabek and Deck McGuire

Blue Jays get: Joey Votto and Wood or Volquez

This saves money to spend on a LF like Cepedes; or you could package Grandal and whoever you don't send to Toronto with another prospect for Danks/Floyd and Quinten.

I know a lot of people want to win with Votto becuase they see it as our "best opportunity" but at what price does it come at handicapping the future of the organization? Get rid of our best option to replace Votto when he leaves? Get rid of our best catching prospect who will possibly be up at the end of 2012 maybe full time in 2013? Everyone wants to give Heisey a shot. I thought he was really good at the job they have him in and that is 4th OF. I just think that getting rid of a guy for usable goods before he ditches us is the right thing to do for the organization if it wants to win now and in the future. Also I think we need to take chances on signings like Evan Longoria's contract. Thats how small market teams can win!

LegallyMinded
11-10-2011, 06:14 PM
I still stand by that the most effective trade for the Reds present and future is with the Blue Jays involving Votto. The main problems the reds have is at SS, LF and SP. SP is a problem not only at the MLB level but also that there are no top pitching prospects above AA. The Blue Jays are stacked with pitching prospects and AA and AAA.

Reds get: Yunel Escobar (signed through 2015?), Brandon Morrow, Kyle Drabek and Deck McGuire

Blue Jays get: Joey Votto and Wood or Volquez

This saves money to spend on a LF like Cepedes; or you could package Grandal and whoever you don't send to Toronto with another prospect for Danks/Floyd and Quinten.

I know a lot of people want to win with Votto becuase they see it as our "best opportunity" but at what price does it come at handicapping the future of the organization? Get rid of our best option to replace Votto when he leaves? Get rid of our best catching prospect who will possibly be up at the end of 2012 maybe full time in 2013? Everyone wants to give Heisey a shot. I thought he was really good at the job they have him in and that is 4th OF. I just think that getting rid of a guy for usable goods before he ditches us is the right thing to do for the organization if it wants to win now and in the future. Also I think we need to take chances on signings like Evan Longoria's contract. Thats how small market teams can win!

Out of curiosity, what would you do about third base in this scenario? I agree that SS is a serious issue, since I don't think it's a good idea to rely too much on Cozart's hot start in the Majors, but third base seems problematic as well. Are you counting on Rolen to (1) be healthy and (2) be productive? Or are you more confident in Frazier/Francisco than you are in Cozart?

dMaus14
11-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Well Rolen isn't going anywhere but I like Francisco a lot. I also would like to trade for Jed Lowrie; can play all three infield positions above average as well as great pitch hitting ability. I would like to use Frazier as trade bait as I think he would be good in the package to CWS because he can play everywhere! Plus again he is cheaper!

Leaves you with:

C: Hanigan, Meseraco
1b: Alonso
2B: Phillips, Lowrie
SS: Escobar, Cozart
3rd: Rolen, Francisco
LF: Quentin, Sappelt
CF: Stubbs
RF: Bruce

SP: Cueto, Danks, Morrow, Leake, Arroyo, Bailey
Pen: Ondrusek, Lecure, Boxberger, Bray, Arredondo, Masset
CL: Chapman

To me that team gets to the playoffs and as Billy Beane says: "I can get us to the playoffs, after that its just dumb luck."

code
11-10-2011, 08:42 PM
Washington needs a CF and we need SS. So how bout this.

Chris Heisey
For
Ian Desmond

I know Cincy had Cozart but I like Desmonds upside quite a bit more.


I would reather have Cozart at this point right now. If he continues to play the way he did before the injury I would give Cozart the start.

lidspinner
11-11-2011, 09:08 AM
I know this sounds like a joke and I truly am not meaning it in that way....but Nationals are "might" be needing a catcher, why not offer one of our catchers and see if we can get them to offer Desmond.....I too am not sold on Desmond but he is young and might turn into something...keep Cozart and there is our future, one of them have to pan out, dont they?

LegallyMinded
11-11-2011, 09:59 AM
I know this sounds like a joke and I truly am not meaning it in that way....but Nationals are "might" be needing a catcher, why not offer one of our catchers and see if we can get them to offer Desmond.....I too am not sold on Desmond but he is young and might turn into something...keep Cozart and there is our future, one of them have to pan out, dont they?

It seems like Grandal and Mes are highly regarded enough that they could bring back better talent than Desmond. Going from Cozart to Desmond seems like a lateral move, and I'd much rather see a catcher traded for a clear upgrade for the starting rotation.

dMaus14
11-13-2011, 12:32 AM
How about Masset to the Red Sox for Jed Lowrie and Andrew Miller?
Solves emptiness at the back of Boston's bullpen now that Paps is gone. Gives us an offensive option as a backup infielder and could possibly win the role at SS.