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Benihana
11-11-2011, 01:55 PM
The Reds drew the second highest attendance on the road in 2011, behind only the Yankees according to http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/awayAvg

The question is, why is this? Is the team that attractive to watch? Are Cincinnatians just lethargic and/or pathetic for not showing up at home? Is this just some statistical fluke or is there something bigger going on here?

Benihana
11-11-2011, 02:04 PM
While we're at it, can someone explain to me why the Reds were #16 in attendance but #19 in payroll in 2011? While it might sound like a small difference, an extra $10MM could have gone a long way toward helping this team compete for a ring.

And why is a team like the Tigers, who draw ~5000 more people per game (18% more revenue), spending $30MM (40% more cost) more on payroll than the Reds?

Is the answer that Castellini is just a cheap SOB?

mdccclxix
11-11-2011, 02:15 PM
Sustained success is very important and the Tigers have had just that. A WS appearance within the last 8-10 years is a common theme among the top attendance teams. I will always maintain that the 79 win 2011 was a massive failure from a PR and revenue standpoint. I'll be happy to be wrong in 2012 if the attendance shoots up past 2.5 mil, but I think cynicism will continue to creep throughout 2012 unless the team is convincing on the field.

As for road attendance, I wouldn't have the slightest clue, perhaps having the MVP and a popular player like Phillips helped. There was a bit of buzz about the young talent on the Reds, as well. Playoff appearance helped. I don't know.

IslandRed
11-11-2011, 03:27 PM
While we're at it, can someone explain to me why the Reds were #16 in attendance but #19 in payroll in 2011? While it might sound like a small difference, an extra $10MM could have gone a long way toward helping this team compete for a ring.

Quick answers:

1. Attendance is only part of the revenue equation. Teams in bigger media markets have more lucrative TV deals.

2. Not every team takes in the same amount of money per butt in a seat.

Benihana
11-11-2011, 03:42 PM
Quick answers:

1. Attendance is only part of the revenue equation. Teams in bigger media markets have more lucrative TV deals.

2. Not every team takes in the same amount of money per butt in a seat.

This was already factored into the equation (and questions).

I am comparing the Reds to teams and markets like Detroit, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Colorado, and other similar markets. Presumably, those markets would have comparable TV deals and revenue per seat. Obviously, I am not comparing the Reds to the Mets, who had very similar attendance this year but obviously very different revenue bases to operate with.

dougdirt
11-11-2011, 04:24 PM
I think the Reds being in the division with three teams who fill up the stands often helps. The Cubs, Cardinals and Brewers all sell a ton of tickets no matter who they are playing.

Hollcat
11-12-2011, 11:45 AM
Detroit is one of the 10 largest cities in the country. Youcant compare cincys market to theirs

Hollcat
11-12-2011, 11:51 AM
Market size based on number of tv's
11. Detroit
17. Denver
21. St Louis
23. Pittsburgh
35. Milwaukee
36. Cincinnati

dougdirt
11-12-2011, 12:00 PM
Market size based on number of tv's
11. Detroit
17. Denver
21. St Louis
23. Pittsburgh
35. Milwaukee
36. Cincinnati

I am asking because I don't know.... is this based on the city or based on the metro area?

MikeThierry
11-12-2011, 12:46 PM
The question is, why is this? Is the team that attractive to watch? Are Cincinnatians just lethargic and/or pathetic for not showing up at home? Is this just some statistical fluke or is there something bigger going on here?

I think it is just a fluky stat. For example, San Diego drew the 5th best road attendance and they were god awful this year. The Mets drew the 3rd best road attendance and were not a good team either.




I think the Reds being in the division with three teams who fill up the stands often helps. The Cubs, Cardinals and Brewers all sell a ton of tickets no matter who they are playing.

Excellent point

dougdirt
11-12-2011, 01:08 PM
Back to my original point


Team avgRatt
Cubs 38038
Brewers 38124
Cards 39414
Rest 30649


Playing those three teams 25 times certainly helped us. Philly had 4 games at 45,000+. We also got Arizona in their home opener at 48,000.

wlf WV
11-12-2011, 02:13 PM
Luck.:)

I agree with Doug.

vic715
11-12-2011, 04:30 PM
I still say the location of the ballpark is part of the reason.To hard to get in and out of and finding decent parking among other things.That stadium should have been built farther north of town near Kings Island.Just my opinion.

dougdirt
11-12-2011, 05:56 PM
I still say the location of the ballpark is part of the reason.To hard to get in and out of and finding decent parking among other things.That stadium should have been built farther north of town near Kings Island.Just my opinion.

What is decent parking? I can park within 2 blocks of the stadium for 10 bucks. Within 3-4 blocks for $7. I am never stuck in traffic leaving the game, whether I park downtown or in Newport.

westofyou
11-12-2011, 06:00 PM
Parking is a dream in Cincinnati walk a half a mile and park for free, try San Francisco and get back to me about how bad parking is in Cincinnati.

We have legs for a reason

camisadelgolf
11-12-2011, 06:40 PM
I never pay for parking when I see the Reds. The farthest I've ever had to park away from the stadium is 8th Street. In doing so, I also reduce my risk of various health problems e.g. heart disease, but after looking at the other fans at the game, I seem to be in the minority when it comes to having consideration for that sort of thing. I'm not accusing anyone here specifically, but it's flat-out pathetic and embarrassing how lazy the American public is.

IslandRed
11-12-2011, 08:01 PM
This was already factored into the equation (and questions).

I am comparing the Reds to teams and markets like Detroit, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Colorado, and other similar markets. Presumably, those markets would have comparable TV deals and revenue per seat. Obviously, I am not comparing the Reds to the Mets, who had very similar attendance this year but obviously very different revenue bases to operate with.

Well, you might have intended to factor it in, but the question I replied to, as phrased, didn't reflect it. By presenting the Reds' relative rankings in payroll and attendance -- in all of baseball, not just the cities you mentioned -- as an issue, most people would read that as either (1) a backhanded way to say you believe the Reds were being cheap because their payroll ranking was not also #16 or higher, which does not allow for consideration of revenue-per-seat or media revenue or anything else but attendance; or (2) an honest question about why the two rankings might reasonably differ, in which case those other things are relevant. Thus my response.

So if neither one of those is what you were asking, then I guess I don't know what question we are supposed to be answering. :p Oh well, maybe it's just me. Long week.

mdccclxix
11-12-2011, 08:02 PM
I never pay for parking when I see the Reds. The farthest I've ever had to park away from the stadium is 8th Street. In doing so, I also reduce my risk of various health problems e.g. heart disease, but after looking at the other fans at the game, I seem to be in the minority when it comes to having consideration for that sort of thing. I'm not accusing anyone here specifically, but it's flat-out pathetic and embarrassing how lazy the American public is.

(slow clap)

traderumor
11-13-2011, 08:51 AM
I never pay for parking when I see the Reds. The farthest I've ever had to park away from the stadium is 8th Street. In doing so, I also reduce my risk of various health problems e.g. heart disease, but after looking at the other fans at the game, I seem to be in the minority when it comes to having consideration for that sort of thing. I'm not accusing anyone here specifically, but it's flat-out pathetic and embarrassing how lazy the American public is.Gee, I'm inspired. I might jog the 150 miles to the next game I attend.

Reds/Flyers Fan
11-13-2011, 10:23 AM
I still say the location of the ballpark is part of the reason.To hard to get in and out of and finding decent parking among other things.That stadium should have been built farther north of town near Kings Island.Just my opinion.

This is absolutetly 100 percent false. Parking in Cincinnati is a cakewalk compared to many other MLB ballparks. I went to at least 25 games this past summer and didn't pay to park a single time. You can park at any downtown meter for free after 6 p.m. and all day Sunday. Or you can park for free down by the International Friendship park and walk. Of course, if you want to park immediately next to the ball park, you're going to have to drop some dollars - as you would at each and every MLB ballpark. But again: Parking is free at every downtown meter after 6 p.m. Just park and walk the four or five blocks. If you physically can't walk, there are plenty of parking options immediately at or adjacent to GABP. So I'm not understanding what you mean by "decent."

And the ballpark should not have been built near Kings Island or anywhere else in the suburbs. Baseball belongs downtown, as it is in just about every city it's played in - not some generic highway exit 25 miles from the city surrounded by acres of surface parking lots with nowhere to go before/after games. A thousand times No way! :thumbdown:

pahster
11-13-2011, 11:27 AM
This is absolutetly 100 percent false. Parking in Cincinnati is a cakewalk compared to many other MLB ballparks. I went to at least 25 games this past summer and didn't pay to park a single time. You can park at any downtown meter for free after 6 p.m. and all day Sunday. Or you can park for free down by the International Friendship park and walk. Of course, if you want to park immediately next to the ball park, you're going to have to drop some dollars - as you would at each and every MLB ballpark. But again: Parking is free at every downtown meter after 6 p.m. Just park and walk the four or five blocks. If you physically can't walk, there are plenty of parking options immediately at or adjacent to GABP. So I'm not understanding what you mean by "decent."

And the ballpark should not have been built near Kings Island or anywhere else in the suburbs. Baseball belongs downtown, as it is in just about every city it's played in - not some generic highway exit 25 miles from the city surrounded by acres of surface parking lots with nowhere to go before/after games. A thousand times No way! :thumbdown:

But it works so well for the Royals!

HokieRed
11-13-2011, 05:44 PM
Parking is a dream in Cincinnati walk a half a mile and park for free, try San Francisco and get back to me about how bad parking is in Cincinnati.

We have legs for a reason

Absolutely. Cincinnati is about the best combination of cheap ticket and easy, relatively cheap parking--plus minimal traffic--in the major leagues.

camisadelgolf
11-13-2011, 08:06 PM
Gee, I'm inspired. I might jog the 150 miles to the next game I attend.
Stay hydrated.

westofyou
11-13-2011, 08:32 PM
Stay hydrated.

And wear good shoes

RBA
11-14-2011, 01:03 AM
And stretch.

sent from HTC EVO

Hoosier Red
11-14-2011, 10:00 AM
Really RBA, we've been through this. Does a cheetah stretch before chasing after its prey?

TeamBoone
11-15-2011, 05:46 PM
What is decent parking? I can park within 2 blocks of the stadium for 10 bucks. Within 3-4 blocks for $7. I am never stuck in traffic leaving the game, whether I park downtown or in Newport.

Totally agree, Doug. And if someone thinks it's too hard to get in and out of, they need to look at a good map!

Rojo
11-15-2011, 06:34 PM
Really RBA, we've been through this. Does a cheetah stretch before chasing after its prey?

Yes, stretching's over-rated. So's cardio. We're meant to walk and sometimes sprint, not pretend to climb stairs for 45 minutes.

I pulled over at a gas station somewhere in the dark heart of California and asked the attendant where the nearest eatery was. He gave me directions... "make a left, make a right, then another left". I asked if it was within walking distance, thinking I could just leave my car at the station. He shook his head unequivocally "no".

It was three blocks.