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View Full Version : Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager



UKFlounder
11-13-2011, 06:18 PM
per twitter, Scott Miller of CBS Sports

ScottMCBSSports Scott Miller
Mike Matheny new manager of St. Louis Cardinals. Done deal. Club has announced it

http://scott-miller.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/33290327

757690
11-13-2011, 06:28 PM
I really like this move for the Cardinals. Catch-22 was considered a team leader when he played, and many people believed he would be an MLB manager someday. My Cardinal friends were all rooting for him. I'd wish him good luck, if he was named the manager of any team other than the Cards. ;)

MattyHo4Life
11-13-2011, 06:31 PM
This is the best news I've heard so far this off-season.

Always Red
11-13-2011, 06:32 PM
This reeks of "keep Dave Duncan on board" to me.

Cheap, young, no experience. But tight with Duncan.

MattyHo4Life
11-13-2011, 06:50 PM
This reeks of "keep Dave Duncan on board" to me.

Cheap, young, no experience. But tight with Duncan.

Well...if they were going to make a move to keep someone on board, then Oquendo probably would have been the choice since he is Pujols' friend.

MikeThierry
11-13-2011, 07:04 PM
The Cards are taking a huge gamble not hiring someone with any coaching experience. I guess it could be a good move but I'm luke warm on the move. He is a smart baseball guy and a well respected player from his time with the Cards so that could be a plus. The team is also a good team so its not like he is going to struggle through a rebuilding franchise like many first time managers do. Still, time will tell on this. I'll give him the benefit of doubt but still puzzled why Francona didn't get the job.


This reeks of "keep Dave Duncan on board" to me.

Duncan had a year left on his contract so I don't see how this is an issue that you bring up.

757690
11-13-2011, 07:23 PM
The Cards are taking a huge gamble not hiring someone with any coaching experience. I guess it could be a good move but I'm luke warm on the move. He is a smart baseball guy and a well respected player from his time with the Cards so that could be a plus. The team is also a good team so its not like he is going to struggle through a rebuilding franchise like many first time managers do. Still, time will tell on this. I'll give him the benefit of doubt but still puzzled why Francona didn't get the job.



Duncan had a year left on his contract so I don't see how this is an issue that you bring up.

One year contracts don't mean much for pitching coaches. I think if Francona was named manager, he would want to bring in his own guys for the whole staff.

RedsManRick
11-13-2011, 07:33 PM
So, does Oquendo stay around? Gotta be tough for him after putting in his dues for so long with the organizaiton.

I've read that Pujols' relationship with Oquendo was a big factor in his staying in St. Louis.

MikeThierry
11-13-2011, 07:42 PM
So, does Oquendo stay around? Gotta be tough for him after putting in his dues for so long with the organizaiton.

I've read that Pujols' relationship with Oquendo was a big factor in his staying in St. Louis.

Matheny and Pujols were pretty good friends as well. In fact, just a couple of weeks after this season was finished, Pujols went to the DR to help Matheny do some stuff with a youth baseball team or something.


One year contracts don't mean much for pitching coaches. I think if Francona was named manager, he would want to bring in his own guys for the whole staff.

Reading different reports, he wasn't really married to a pitching coach. Besides, why would he not want Duncan's services? If a coach is coming in and wanting to replace arguably the best pitching coach in the history of the game, that alone would have been grounds not to hire him.

MikeThierry
11-13-2011, 07:51 PM
The other positive thing, if you are a Reds fan, is that you won't have to see the mind games that TLR put everyone through. Matheny was a well respected person and one of the good guys in the game when he played. I get a sense that the Cards wanted to get away from the uber-micromanaging/psychological mind games management they had for 16 years and move towards a guy that can not only manage on the field but give good PR as well.

kaldaniels
11-13-2011, 08:01 PM
I hope he brings a culture change to the STL clubhouse. And of course I say that as a Reds fan. As a Cards fan, Tony L did produce results, you gotta admit.

MikeThierry
11-13-2011, 08:18 PM
I hope he brings a culture change to the STL clubhouse. And of course I say that as a Reds fan. As a Cards fan, Tony L did produce results, you gotta admit.

Kal, I can certainly understand why TLR annoyed so many people. However, he was one of those guys that you hate but love to have on your team. I liked the fact that TLR tried to give the Cards an edge on every single opportunity that came his way. I appreciated that if he felt there was a just a chance his team would perform just 1% better because of the antics he pulled, he didn't mind taking heat for it.

757690
11-13-2011, 08:44 PM
Reading different reports, he wasn't really married to a pitching coach. Besides, why would he not want Duncan's services? If a coach is coming in and wanting to replace arguably the best pitching coach in the history of the game, that alone would have been grounds not to hire him.

If the Cards wanted Francona and he wanted to bring in a new staff including a new pitching coach, and that was the reason why he wasn't hired, the Cardinals are the dumbest organization I have ever experienced, and I experienced both the Dick Wagner and Dan O'Brien Reds era's. ;)

camisadelgolf
11-13-2011, 09:02 PM
I've met Matheny a couple times, and I think he's a great fit. I also like that he'll wear number 22, which might hurt the odds of the Cards' re-signing Edwin Jackson by the smallest factor. Every little bit counts, right?

camisadelgolf
11-13-2011, 09:09 PM
Kal, I can certainly understand why TLR annoyed so many people. However, he was one of those guys that you hate but love to have on your team. I liked the fact that TLR tried to give the Cards an edge on every single opportunity that came his way. I appreciated that if he felt there was a just a chance his team would perform just 1% better because of the antics he pulled, he didn't mind taking heat for it.
In Cincinnati, we're stuck with pretty much the opposite in Dusty Baker, whose on-field decisions are often questionable (albeit probably not as bad as his critics make them out to be). I would welcome a change to a micromanaging style with open arms. The only reason I ever gripe about TLR and wouldn't want him on my favorite team is due to his petty excuses and accusations of opponents cheating (which is extremely ironic when you consider the players he had under his lead).

Vottomatic
11-13-2011, 09:27 PM
The other positive thing, if you are a Reds fan, is that you won't have to see the mind games that TLR put everyone through. Matheny was a well respected person and one of the good guys in the game when he played. I get a sense that the Cards wanted to get away from the uber-micromanaging/psychological mind games management they had for 16 years and move towards a guy that can not only manage on the field but give good PR as well.

What mind games? TLR outsmarted himself most of the time.

One of the luckier managers of my lifetime. I really can't remember him ever managing a team that wasn't stacked with talent. He had good teams and IMHO, often times undermined them.

Overrated is my opinion of TLR. Obviously I'll be in the minority.

His teams were stacked with talent.

757690
11-13-2011, 09:33 PM
What mind games? TLR outsmarted himself most of the time.

One of the luckier managers of my lifetime. I really can't remember him ever managing a team that wasn't stacked with talent. He had good teams and IMHO, often times undermined them.

Overrated is my opinion of TLR. Obviously I'll be in the minority.

His teams were stacked with talent.

That's a very overlooked point.

I seriously doubt LaRussa would have ever agreed to manage the Cubs, or the Rays like Sweet Lou did, or the Cubs and Reds like Dusty did, or the Marlins, Rockies, and Tigers like Leyland did.

MattyHo4Life
11-13-2011, 09:47 PM
That's a very overlooked point.

I seriously doubt LaRussa would have ever agreed to manage the Cubs, or the Rays like Sweet Lou did, or the Cubs and Reds like Dusty did, or the Marlins, Rockies, and Tigers like Leyland did.

Well...LaRussa's first year in St. Louis was 1996. He took over a team that finished 62-81 in 1995 managed by Joe Torre.

MattyHo4Life
11-13-2011, 09:51 PM
Kal, I can certainly understand why TLR annoyed so many people. However, he was one of those guys that you hate but love to have on your team. I liked the fact that TLR tried to give the Cards an edge on every single opportunity that came his way. I appreciated that if he felt there was a just a chance his team would perform just 1% better because of the antics he pulled, he didn't mind taking heat for it.

I don't have anything against LaRussa...he did bring two World Championships to St. Louis. However, I was thrilled when he retired and was hoping he would. I think it's time for St. Louis to have a fresh direction. Matheny is hte perfect guy to do that. He doesn't have any experience, but MAtheny is well respected and is looked at as a great leader.

757690
11-13-2011, 09:54 PM
Well...LaRussa's first year in St. Louis was 1996. He took over a team that finished 62-81 in 1995 managed by Joe Torre.

Cardinals are the second most successful and popular organization in all of baseball, that had just gotten new ownership that was ready to spend money.

I believe even TRL himself, when asked about breaking Bobby Cox's win record, humbly replied that he was very lucky to have been in two very good situations.

I'm not sure it's even a knock in him that wants to be in good situtions, it says he knows one when he sees one, and that he likes to win.

MattyHo4Life
11-13-2011, 10:02 PM
I have a feeling that the Cardinals will shift gears a little and focus more on defense net year. Matheny understands the importance of good defence.

Vottomatic
11-13-2011, 10:46 PM
Cardinals are the second most successful and popular organization in all of baseball, that had just gotten new ownership that was ready to spend money.

I believe even TRL himself, when asked about breaking Bobby Cox's win record, humbly replied that he was very lucky to have been in two very good situations.

I'm not sure it's even a knock in him that wants to be in good situtions, it says he knows one when he sees one, and that he likes to win.

Well, atleast he was smart enough to go to good situations. Can't fault him for that.

There are certain coaches and managers that seem to fall into good situations from time to time. Another guy I can't stand in the NFL is Brian Billick. Has a huge ego, but fell into one of the most talented Ravens teams ever, and won the Super Bowl. Never thought much and still don't think much of him as a head coach. I watched an interview of him one time where he proclaimed himself an offensive guru. Seriously.

I thought Ron Washington did about as lousy a job of managing a world series team as I've seen in a long while. Texas was stacked. But he managed them poorly when it counted.

Unassisted
11-13-2011, 11:29 PM
Matheny grew up in Reynoldsburg, Ohio. That might make him at least not hate the areds.

westofyou
11-14-2011, 12:04 AM
Robin Ventura and Matheny both never coached or managed a game in their lives.

Be prepared for the second guessing

BuckeyeRedleg
11-14-2011, 12:13 AM
Holy crap. I played against this guy in high school.

I feel old.

Redhook
11-14-2011, 07:17 AM
I have a feeling that the Cardinals will shift gears a little and focus more on winning less next year.

There. Fixed it for you. ;)

Hoosier Red
11-14-2011, 09:46 AM
The other positive thing, if you are a Reds fan, is that you won't have to see the mind games that TLR put everyone through. Matheny was a well respected person and one of the good guys in the game when he played. I get a sense that the Cards wanted to get away from the uber-micromanaging/psychological mind games management they had for 16 years and move towards a guy that can not only manage on the field but give good PR as well.

I think it's a double edged sword in bringing in a complete rookie manager.

On one hand, it's not brain surgery, and with a veteran team, it's not like he should need to crack the whip. A lot of players will probably be more relaxed with a guy like Matheney than they were when Larussa managed.

On the other hand, with Larussa, at least the Cards players knew they would be in it to win it. If they are able to perhaps take advantage of the relaxed atmosphere AND if Matheney perhaps goofs up something that Tony never would have overlooked, it might be hard for the players to truly respect him.

One thing I always respected about Larussa is that he micro managed, but his players were usually pretty smart themselves. Sometimes with a micro manager, the players aren't as active in trying to take advantage of a weakness they see, but rather let the manager do everything for them. The baserunning trick the Cardinals often employ of having a guy round third far enough to draw a throw, but still get back and allowing a guy on first to coast into second is an example of this.

durl
11-14-2011, 11:04 AM
I wonder if Matheny will tell Carpenter to stop the whining.

oneupper
11-14-2011, 11:06 AM
I wonder if Matheny will tell Carpenter to stop the whining.

He will, but Carpenter will whine about it.

MikeThierry
11-14-2011, 03:04 PM
What mind games? TLR outsmarted himself most of the time.

One of the luckier managers of my lifetime. I really can't remember him ever managing a team that wasn't stacked with talent. He had good teams and IMHO, often times undermined them.

Overrated is my opinion of TLR. Obviously I'll be in the minority.

His teams were stacked with talent.

I think this point is a bit overplayed. What team isn't successful with talent? I can't think of many instances where a manager has won a World Series with the equivalent of the AAA Memphis Redbirds as his team. Do you take points away from Sparky Anderson because he managed a Reds team that literally had half of their team full of Hall of Fame players? Are you going to take away points from Bobby Cox for having a pitching staff that was arguably one of the most dominant pitching staffs in the history of baseball for a decade or so?

Furthermore, I think you do underestimate TLR's ability to manage and his leadership. Yeah, he won with great teams but he also won with teams that really had no business being there in the first place. In 2002, his best year of management, they had to use 14 different starting pitcher and their Ace died, yet the team made the playoffs and was close to going to the World Series that year. Can you say that in 2006 that team had any business winning? I'm not even going to go into this historic year. Are you saying that TLR had nothing to do with those teams or the drive he instills on those teams? A lot of times players and managers in sports create their own luck. You may not like TLR but I think you do him a disservice to essentially say he was lucky in his 33 years of managing. Speaking of which, 33 years of managing at a high level is a feat onto itself.

MikeThierry
11-14-2011, 03:05 PM
I wonder if Matheny will tell Carpenter to stop the whining.

I wonder how he is going to explain this to his son. :)

muddie
11-14-2011, 05:49 PM
I nailed this one. I told a lifelong Cardinals fan last week that my gut feeling was Matheny.

Joseph
11-14-2011, 06:12 PM
I like this move.

MattyHo4Life
11-14-2011, 08:01 PM
I like this move.

I Love this move.

Out of the 6 cadidates...Matheny is the only one that I wanted to get the job.