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View Full Version : Reds hall of fame, new members (Casey, Driessen & Reilly)...



_Sir_Charles_
11-28-2011, 05:43 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/11/28/casey-driessen-reilly-to-reds-hall/


Three-time All-Star Sean Casey, Big Red Machine infielder Dan Driessen and 19th century first baseman John Reilly will be the next three players inducted into the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame.

Casey was selected by the fans through the Modern Player Ballot presented by Cincyfavorites.com. The Veterans Committee selected Driessen and Reilly to make up the Reds Hall of Fame Class of 2012.

I have to admit, I really liked Driessen...but the Reds hall of fame? Really?

George Anderson
11-28-2011, 05:57 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/11/28/casey-driessen-reilly-to-reds-hall/



I have to admit, I really liked Driessen...but the Reds hall of fame? Really?

Yea, I realize standards are lower for a teams HOF than Cooperstown, but seeing those 3 in a HOF makes me want to laugh.

_Sir_Charles_
11-28-2011, 06:03 PM
Yea, I realize standards are lower for a teams HOF than Cooperstown, but seeing those 3 in a HOF makes me want to laugh.

I understood Casey, simply because it was a fan vote. I know how popular he was. As for Reilly...I'm just not very familiar with him. Dan's the head-scratcher for me.

redsmetz
11-28-2011, 06:40 PM
Looking at Reilly's 1888 season, for the era, it was phenomenal. He led the league (American Association) in HR's (13), RBI (103) and Slugging (.501), OPS (.864), OPS+ (170) and had 84 stolen bases that year too. Earlier in 1884, he basically led the league in many of those same categories. With 69 homers when he retired, I suspect he was the club all-time leader until the 1920's, but that's just a guess on my part.

To be honest, until now, I'd never heard of him. I see he's buried in Spring Grove, so I'll have to look him up next time I'm walking over there.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reilljo01.shtml

Edit: just read the article, they wrote:


When he retired after the 1891 season, Reilly held Reds records for most singles, double, triples, home runs, runs scored, RBI and games played. While all of these records have since been broken, Reilly remains one of only four players in Reds history to lead the league in home runs twice.

George Anderson
11-28-2011, 07:14 PM
I understood Casey, simply because it was a fan vote. I know how popular he was. As for Reilly...I'm just not very familiar with him. Dan's the head-scratcher for me.

The thing Driessen and Casey have in common is a Hall of Famer (Perez) and a likely future Hall of Famer (Konerko) were both traded to make room for these 2 players respectively and considering what was expected of them, they ended up being busts.

The fans voting for the HOF really irks me. The common average, every day fan is pretty clueless, so why these people are given a vote to decide who goes in an elite club for the greatest players to ever play for the Reds is beyond me. This is supposed to be a Reds Hall of Fame and not a Most Popular Reds Ever Club.

I know the Reds like to have inductees every year but at this rate Billy Bates will have a plaque soon.

Col_ IN Reds fan
11-28-2011, 07:19 PM
Not in favor of these additions,cheapens HOF.

oneupper
11-28-2011, 07:26 PM
i'd say Joey Votto, Jay Bruce and Brandon Phillips are shoo-ins at this point.

gilpdawg
11-28-2011, 09:03 PM
I don't have a problem with it. The Reds hall is basically for the fans anyway and not to be taken so seriously. Sabo sort of mocked it when he went in. Something like "what kind of HOF would have me anyway, but I'll take it." :p

Eric_the_Red
11-28-2011, 09:32 PM
Some of these responses crack me up. How do you "cheapen" a hometown HOF, made for fans, and as an effort to get people to the "induction" game and museum? It's fun....not everything in the world of baseball has to be treated as seriously and somberly as a wake.

And people wonder why baseball's popularity is declining.

As for me, I'll be there to cheer for "The Mayor" one more time, and hopefully catch a Reds win to boot! :thumbup:

Col_ IN Reds fan
11-28-2011, 10:07 PM
[QUOTE=Eric_the_Red;2505570]Some of these responses crack me up. How do you "cheapen" a hometown HOF, made for fans, and as an effort to get people to the "induction" game and museum? It's fun....not everything in the world of baseball has to be treated as seriously and somberly as a wake.

And people wonder why baseball's popularity is declining.

Wow my opinion on the Reds HOF makes baseball popularity decline?
You should start a poll on which three Reds should get into HOF next year.
Maybe they should increase it to 7 or 8 HOFers per year, that would certainly draw more people to the induction ceremony and game.

Mainspark
11-28-2011, 11:18 PM
Casey's induction was inevitable, given the fan voting, and probably not all that inconsistent with some past selections.
I have nothing against Dan Driessen personally, but his selection indicates (1) anyone who played for the Reds for an extended period, regardless of performance, is going to eventually get in or (2) every induction ceremony has to involve some member of the Big Red Machine teams. Or both.
Driessen had a nice season his first year as a regular, but beyond that was something of a disappointment. (Joe Morgan once suggested he was never the same player after suffering a broken wrist in the late '70s.)
Unfortunately, I'll always associate him with those post-BRM teams that lost 100 games in 82-83.
For my money, Dave Parker contributed more to the franchise in four seasons than Driessen did in eight, with an MVP-caliber season in 1985 and playing a key role in returning the team to respectability.
I think we can eventually count on seeing the entire Big Red Machine rosters - with inductees like Ed Armbrister, Merv Rettenmund and Mike Lum, among others - being so honored.

westofyou
11-28-2011, 11:20 PM
Fact is the Reds have traditionally been weak at 1st

And Driessen was a better hitter vs his peers than Casey



CINCINNATI REDS
CAREER
1B
AT BATS >= 2500

OPS DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE AB
1 John Reilly .117 .780 .663 4412
2 Ted Kluszewski .116 .869 .753 4961
3 Jake Beckley .112 .818 .706 3465
4 Lee May .104 .813 .709 2837
5 Tony Perez .087 .801 .714 3796
6 Frank McCormick .071 .788 .717 4787
7 Dan Driessen .064 .785 .721 3881
8 Hal Morris .059 .807 .747 3382
9 Sean Casey .056 .834 .778 4007
10 Doc Hoblitzell .034 .727 .693 3172

Mainspark
11-28-2011, 11:39 PM
And Driessen was a better hitter vs his peers than Casey

But take into consideration that Casey's peers included a few guys who suddenly gained the ability to hit 50+ homers on a yearly basis.

RedlegJake
11-28-2011, 11:40 PM
Long John Reilly should have made it to the Reds HoF long ago if they knew what they were doing. Twice hit for the cycle (one of what? two or three to do so?) and was a second tier league slugger - not on a par with the like of Dan Brouthers - but on the next notch - for several seasons and probably would compete with Beckley as the best overall hitter the Reds had before Roush (who played in Cincinnati awhile, I know Crawford, Seymour, and King Kelley were better players and Browning was a great hitter (but maybe the worst fielder of his time which was saying something) but none were with the Reds more than a season or two. Beckley and Reilly were both first basemen and while Beckley is probably overrated, imo, and went into the major league HOF, Reilly has been largely forgotten except for diehard fans and lovers of the game's early history. He had speed and power, and I've always marvelled at first basemen of that era who caught barehanded, of course, like everyone, but the thought of digging out an errant throw in the dirt barehanded makes me admire those old first sackers guts only a bit less than the old catchers. On second thought, those old catchers were just plumb nuts!

westofyou
11-28-2011, 11:47 PM
But take into consideration that Casey's peers included a few guys who suddenly gained the ability to hit 50+ homers on a yearly basis.
True, but the numbers don't lie, OPS wise they were equal vs their peers and Driessen was a better baserunner by a large margin.

In Reds history they are equal, one just happened to follow a HOF, the other Hal Morris

George Anderson
11-28-2011, 11:58 PM
And Driessen was a better hitter vs his peers than Casey


[/CODE]

Driessen also was an outstanding defender. Casey was average at best.

Mainspark
11-29-2011, 12:09 AM
Driessen was certainly among the speedier first basemen of his time - no one ever said that about Sean Casey - and if I recall correctly he was a pretty good fielder - at first base, not at third.
Truth be told, he had a decent career, and it's probably unfair for me to slap that "disappointment" label on him.
A factor in all that is that the Reds front office, and perhaps Sparky, really oversold him when he first came up. I was an impressionable teenager at the time, and when they suggested he was going to be the next Stan Musial and/or a perennial batting champion, I believed them.
Expectations were created that he couldn't possibly live up to.

HeatherC1212
11-29-2011, 12:37 AM
I'm very happy for the Mayor and I will also be there in person to cheer him on when he's inducted next summer. :thumbup:

Congrats to all the inductees! :)

Ron Madden
11-29-2011, 05:01 AM
I don't really have any problem with the results.

I am surprised by some of the things I've read here and elsewhere about the eligible candidates on the ballot. I believe Dan Driessen,Scott Sullivan, John Franco and Danny Graves are unfairly judged by many Reds Fans.

dfs
11-29-2011, 07:48 AM
I have to admit, I really liked Driessen...but the Reds hall of fame? Really?

Oddly enough, when I saw the results, I thought " I really liked Casey, but the hof?....Really?"

Roy Tucker
11-29-2011, 08:11 AM
I must say, I am underwhelmed.

Hard to get any dander up about Casey since he's such a lovable big lug. And Driessen was a pretty decent player. But jeez, if these guys are the benchmarks, then they better build a Motel 6 on the back of the Reds HoF beause there are going to be a lot of guys that are going to get in.

And I audibly snorted when I read about Casey's baserunning being brought into the conversation. I have never seen a guy run so hard but yet go so slow in my life. If effort translated into speed, he'd be Carl Lewis. But instead, he ran about as fast as my family room couch. I'll always love Case, but...

kaldaniels
11-29-2011, 08:24 AM
George Grande has already called dibs on announcing the games the weekend Casey is inducted.

CesarGeronimo
11-29-2011, 09:40 AM
(2) every induction ceremony has to involve some member of the Big Red Machine teams. I think we can eventually count on seeing the entire Big Red Machine rosters - with inductees like Ed Armbrister, Merv Rettenmund and Mike Lum, among others - being so honored.

I can't wait until Rawly Eastwick, Santo Alcala and Bill Plummer go in. And what would a Reds Hall of Fame be without Doug Flynn?

Chip R
11-29-2011, 09:44 AM
I must say, I am underwhelmed.

Hard to get any dander up about Casey since he's such a lovable big lug. And Driessen was a pretty decent player. But jeez, if these guys are the benchmarks, then they better build a Motel 6 on the back of the Reds HoF beause there are going to be a lot of guys that are going to get in.

And I audibly snorted when I read about Casey's baserunning being brought into the conversation. I have never seen a guy run so hard but yet go so slow in my life. If effort translated into speed, he'd be Carl Lewis. But instead, he ran about as fast as my family room couch. I'll always love Case, but...

I'm not sure what the problem is here. This was a vote by the fans. It's the fans' HOF. These guys met the criteria and were voted in by the fans. People tend to make a stink about how MLB and the Reds do not think of the fans but their own bank accounts. This is something the Reds have done for the fans and have allowed them to be the ones deciding who goes in and who doesn't. And it's not like Cooperstown doesn't have it's share of people that got in there through cronyism or what have you.

TRF
11-29-2011, 09:44 AM
in this case, it really is a hall of FAME.

Casey was/is completely loved as a player, and I really wish he had been healthy for his entire career as a Red. I loved watching him hit.

George Anderson
11-29-2011, 10:05 AM
Looking to the future, in the next couple years if they keep up with this fans picking the player idea, who gets inducted next?


• Jeff Brantley, P (1994-97)
• John Franco, P (1984-89)
• Danny Graves, P (1997-2005)
• Hal Morris, 1B (1990-97; 1999-2000)
• Paul O’Neill, OF (1985-1992)
• Reggie Sanders, OF (1991-1998)
• Scott Sullivan, P (1995-2003)


It seems the Reds every year want 2-3 players to be inducted and other than Griffey JR. being a future legit member, who gets inducted 3-4 years from now?? Are we eventually going to get to the bottom of the list to where we see Jeff Brantley inducted?

Roy Tucker
11-29-2011, 10:06 AM
I'm not sure what the problem is here. This was a vote by the fans. It's the fans' HOF. These guys met the criteria and were voted in by the fans. People tend to make a stink about how MLB and the Reds do not think of the fans but their own bank accounts. This is something the Reds have done for the fans and have allowed them to be the ones deciding who goes in and who doesn't. And it's not like Cooperstown doesn't have it's share of people that got in there through cronyism or what have you.

I'm not mad about this or anything. And if this is what the average Joe Reds fan wants, then that's fine. And yes, I like the Reds HoF and I think its a swell place to go and I think its cool the Reds have done this for their fans.

I'm just not very excited about these inductees and think they are very marginally qualified in my very narrow and pin-headed way of looking at the world. Judging from the vote, I'm in the minority. I guess I'm weird.

Jpup
11-29-2011, 10:17 AM
I couldn't be happier than Sean Casey in going into the Reds Hall of Fame. I don't see how someone could complain about that. He was a good hitter and an outstanding person. There are probably not too many Reds that have done more for people than Sean Casey.

chicoruiz
11-29-2011, 10:34 AM
I had no idea who was in the Reds HOF so I looked it up and, I'll tell you, these guys will definitely not be the worst players in there...

dfs
11-29-2011, 01:42 PM
Looking to the future, in the next couple years if they keep up with this fans picking the player idea, who gets inducted next?


• Jeff Brantley, P (1994-97)
• John Franco, P (1984-89)
• Danny Graves, P (1997-2005)
• Hal Morris, 1B (1990-97; 1999-2000)
• Paul O’Neill, OF (1985-1992)
• Reggie Sanders, OF (1991-1998)
• Scott Sullivan, P (1995-2003)


It seems the Reds every year want 2-3 players to be inducted and other than Griffey JR. being a future legit member, who gets inducted 3-4 years from now?? Are we eventually going to get to the bottom of the list to where we see Jeff Brantley inducted?

How in the world is John Franco NOT in the reds hall of fame when Casey is?
I suppose it has something to do with the fan vote having a different eligibility criteria than the regular vote, but that would be silly.

westofyou
11-29-2011, 02:16 PM
I had no idea who was in the Reds HOF so I looked it up and, I'll tell you, these guys will definitely not be the worst players in there...

Wayne Granger and Harry Craft say hey

919191
11-29-2011, 02:29 PM
Maybe after Cody Ross retires he'll get inducted to Reds HOF. I mean, he had a hit, you know.:)

Col_ IN Reds fan
11-29-2011, 04:20 PM
I agree with the guy earlier seems most like it this way. I could care less other than stating opinion of what a HOF should be.

_Sir_Charles_
11-29-2011, 05:15 PM
Oddly enough, when I saw the results, I thought " I really liked Casey, but the hof?....Really?"

Hehe. Well, I agree...but like I said, I knew that the fans voted in Casey. So that one...logic had no place in that call.

_Sir_Charles_
11-29-2011, 05:16 PM
How in the world is John Franco NOT in the reds hall of fame when Casey is?
I suppose it has something to do with the fan vote having a different eligibility criteria than the regular vote, but that would be silly.

Yep. I think Franco would be a shoo-in.

George Anderson
11-29-2011, 05:23 PM
Yep. I think Franco would be a shoo-in.

But Franco wasn't a nice guy, who always had a smile on his face and signed autographs. ;)

_Sir_Charles_
11-29-2011, 05:25 PM
But Franco wasn't a nice guy, who always had a smile on his face and signed autographs. ;)

*grin* Well played.

TRF
11-29-2011, 05:54 PM
But Franco wasn't a nice guy, who always had a smile on his face and signed autographs. ;)

He also wasn't a doubles machine, play on the most exciting Reds team in almost a decade, and did that with a smile.

Franco's time in Cincinnati is not recognized because of WHEN he was a Red. Pete Rose says hi. Pete overshadowed everyone. Except maybe Eric Davis.

westofyou
11-29-2011, 06:25 PM
He also wasn't a doubles machine, play on the most exciting Reds team in almost a decade, and did that with a smile.

Franco's time in Cincinnati is not recognized because of WHEN he was a Red. Pete Rose says hi. Pete overshadowed everyone. Except maybe Eric Davis.

Also only 35% of his games were as a Red

redsmetz
11-29-2011, 06:31 PM
Also only 35% of his games were as a Red

Only 30% of Seaver's career was with the Reds, yet he's in.

westofyou
11-29-2011, 06:37 PM
Only 30% of Seaver's career was with the Reds, yet he's in.

But he's a HOF player, and quite possibly the best Reds pitcher aside from Soto of the last 40 years.

That's where the fans vote plays strong.

The Reds have always been top heavy in the BP, Franco left and the next guys were the ones who drove them to the series. If Franco had been one of those guys he'd be in right now.

Not that he won't get in anyway... Wayne Granger did... thus anyone can.

mth123
11-29-2011, 06:58 PM
Seems to me this is simply a Hall of Nostalgia meant to get people to drop some bucks in the gift shop before or after the game.

chicoruiz
11-29-2011, 07:04 PM
I was thinking Brooks Lawrence and Jerry Lynch as examples, but Granger and Craft work too...

George Anderson
11-29-2011, 09:00 PM
Seems to me this is simply a Hall of Nostalgia meant to get people to drop some bucks in the gift shop before or after the game.

The half dozen or so times I have been through the Reds HOF I am usually to burnt out, mentally drained or sick of my crazy kids being bad to really enjoy the plaque section. They can add Casey, Driessen, Billy Bates or whoever, I am not gonna get overly excited or upset either way because I usually walk right through it.

cumberlandreds
11-30-2011, 07:53 AM
Driessen was a good player. He just had the unfortunate timing of following Tony Perez at 1B. Try as he could, he just wasn't the leader and player that Perez was. Not that anyone could be though. But a nice player anyway.
These teams Hall Of Fame's tend to be a Hall of the Popular not so much as a recognition of greatness. If they want to include Driessen its OK by me. He was a part of my growing up as a Red fan and will always be remembered by me. Just not on the same level as most of the BRM's players.

reds1869
11-30-2011, 09:37 AM
Reilly should have been in years ago. One of the best Cincinnati players of the 19th Century.

REDREAD
11-30-2011, 10:18 AM
Seems to me this is simply a Hall of Nostalgia meant to get people to drop some bucks in the gift shop before or after the game.

Yep, best explanation so far.
It's a gimmick to help draw people to the stadium and make a little extra money. Nothing wrong with that.

It's a Reds Hall of Fame.. Naturally the criteria isn't going to be as strict.
I think it's nice that they let the fans vote people in. That's kind of the true test of fame, isn't it? 20 years from now, lots of us will still remember Casey.
Not sure how many people will remember Gomes, etc.

MrCinatit
11-30-2011, 10:36 AM
I've no problem with the likes of Casey, Driessen and Reilly making it. If I am not mistaken, Driessen's induction now means that every starter in the 1976 World Series lineup is in (Dan was DH), which is pretty cool.
If the criteria is kept too strict, then there would be about nine guys in it. It's a Reds' Hall-of-Fame, not "greatest ever" team.

Edd Roush
11-30-2011, 11:52 AM
Yep, best explanation so far.
It's a gimmick to help draw people to the stadium and make a little extra money. Nothing wrong with that.

It's a Reds Hall of Fame.. Naturally the criteria isn't going to be as strict.
I think it's nice that they let the fans vote people in. That's kind of the true test of fame, isn't it? 20 years from now, lots of us will still remember Casey.
Not sure how many people will remember Gomes, etc.

REDREAD, I completely agree with your take. The only thing I have to add is that many of us on Redzone have much better memories about the Reds than the average person rolling through the Hall of Fame. The average person may not remember Jonny Gomes 20 years from now, but I am sure many of us on Redszone will remember him the same way you remember John Allen ;)

Blitz Dorsey
11-30-2011, 10:36 PM
Dan Driessen? Really? Doesn't this kind of diminish what a big honor it should be to make the Reds' HOF?

And I love Casey ... but really? Reds' HOF'er? I guess we're not setting the bar all that high, which is fine I suppose, but somewhat surprising. Not a big deal, so I don't have a huge problem with it, but I do find it a bit strange. So is Aaron Harang going to be a Reds' HOFer one day? Because, he was much-more valuable to the Reds than someone like Casey IMO. Or, if you're affable do you get extra points?

I like Sean Casey! I just think enshrining guys like him and Driessen cheapens the Reds HOF. (I don't know anything about Reilly other than what I've just read.)

REDREAD
11-30-2011, 10:59 PM
, but I am sure many of us on Redszone will remember him the same way you remember John Allen ;)

:lol:

RBA
12-01-2011, 12:31 PM
Up next: Dave Parker and Greg Vaughn

RichRed
12-01-2011, 12:45 PM
The Reds HOF clock on Ramon Hernandez starts today.

RBA
12-01-2011, 01:04 PM
Gary Redus and Paul Householder? Has Tracy Jones been inducted yet?

savafan
12-01-2011, 01:44 PM
Is the criteria still 5 or more seasons as a Red?

George Anderson
12-01-2011, 01:46 PM
Is the criteria still 5 or more seasons as a Red?

Jeff Brantley is on the fan ballot and he only had 4 years with the Reds.

redsmetz
12-01-2011, 04:27 PM
Is the criteria still 5 or more seasons as a Red?

From the Hall's site:

What are the qualifications to be eligible for the Reds Hall of Fame?

Players must have played for the Reds for a minimum of three seasons and have been retired for three seasons. Players active in Major League Baseball within the last 13 years will be considered for the fan ballot. Players playing in Major League Baseball more than 13 years ago will be considered by the Veterans Committee.

I haven't weighed in yet (I don't think), but I really don't have a problem with any of these selections. As others have noted, Reilly seems long overdue; a player I wasn't familiar with and glad to have the opportunity to learn about him.

As for Driessen and Casey, I understand what some folks are saying, but the Reds hall is ultimately, as others have said, about the fans. Frankly, I think Driessen is rather unheralded particularly in light of replacing Perez. I was surprised how big a presence he had during his tenure with the club, in the shadows with the Big Red Machine and then playing full-time on those woeful 1980's teams. But I made up my one Sporcle quiz on top 5 Reds playing at a position, I was surprised that he was 3rd behind only Klu & McCormick, followed by Perez and Casey. Gordy Coleman wasn't even on the list.

I wish I knew how to do side by side comparisons on Baseball-Reference. I'd like to line up Casey and Driessen with Coleman.

Finally, it's not surprising that we fans voted Casey in. For me, I love that my kids could learn about players from different eras when finishing up at the Hall. And Casey deserves to be in that conversation.