PDA

View Full Version : Offseason Targets



dMaus14
11-30-2011, 02:27 AM
Here's a list of possible targets whether it be through free agency or trades:

John Danks: Sappelt - #8, Corcinco - #3, Wood, Grandal - #2 (must get a trade and extension agreement)

Gavin Floyd: Sappelt - #8, Corcinco - #3, Volquez

James Shields: Alonso - #4, Grandal - #2, Sappelt - $8

Josh Willingham: 4 years and $35M

Yoenis Cespedes: 6 years and $45M

Jed Lowrie: trade Masset

David DeJesus: 2 years and $11M

Marlon Byrd: Sappelt - #8, Frazier - #14

Francisco Liriano: Volquez, Frazier - #14

Erik Bedard: 1 year and $5.5M

Wandy Rodriguez: Stubbs, Volquez, Francisco (will need cash to be returned)

Andrew Bailey: Alonso - #4, Frazier - #14

Obviously these aren't all the trades or signings I would make this offseason because many of them include the same pieces.

R_Webb18
11-30-2011, 03:28 AM
Andrew Bailey: Alonso - #4, Frazier - #14


this seems insane

Billy Hamilton's Legs
11-30-2011, 03:39 AM
i agree about the bailey deal being over the top. but otherwise, these are very realistic deals (at least imo). nice job

alett12
11-30-2011, 08:51 AM
this entire post is insane. here are the guys i think the reds should go after
1.Huston Street-fransisco
2.David Aardsma- one year incentive based deal
3.Omar Vizquel- Bring in the best on a one year deal to work with Cozart and frazier
4.Lance Nix- no one can argue he wouldn't be a great platoon with heisey
5.Jason Kubel- would work in LF but probably out of the reds price range
6.Rich Harden- one year incentive deal
7.Eric Bedard- one year incentive deal
8.Dontrelle Willis- one year incentive deal
9.Octavio Dotel- one year incentive based deal
10. Joel Zumya- minor league deal
11.Arthur Rhodes- one year incentive based deal
12.Josh Reddick from boston for Phipps
13.Jeremey Hellickson from tampa for yonder and a lower level SS prospect
14.Chad Billingsley from dodgers for Sappelt, Fransisco, and a lower level pitching prospect
15.send bronson to either seattle or san deigo for a low level pitching prospect

LegallyMinded
11-30-2011, 09:23 AM
this entire post is insane. here are the guys i think the reds should go after
1.Huston Street-fransisco
2.David Aardsma- one year incentive based deal
3.Omar Vizquel- Bring in the best on a one year deal to work with Cozart and frazier
4.Lance Nix- no one can argue he wouldn't be a great platoon with heisey
5.Jason Kubel- would work in LF but probably out of the reds price range
6.Rich Harden- one year incentive deal
7.Eric Bedard- one year incentive deal
8.Dontrelle Willis- one year incentive deal
9.Octavio Dotel- one year incentive based deal
10. Joel Zumya- minor league deal
11.Arthur Rhodes- one year incentive based deal
12.Josh Reddick from boston for Phipps
13.Jeremey Hellickson from tampa for yonder and a lower level SS prospect
14.Chad Billingsley from dodgers for Sappelt, Fransisco, and a lower level pitching prospect
15.send bronson to either seattle or san deigo for a low level pitching prospect


I love the idea of trying to sign Bedard and Harden to low-risk deals, and having Vizquel around as a mentor for the young infielders seems appealing as well. I'm concerned, though, that Dusty would end up playing Vizquel far more than his diminished skills at this point in his career would warrant-- is there any chance Vizquel might be interested in a coaching position instead?

dMaus14
11-30-2011, 10:43 AM
this entire post is insane. here are the guys i think the reds should go after
1.Huston Street-fransisco
2.David Aardsma- one year incentive based deal
3.Omar Vizquel- Bring in the best on a one year deal to work with Cozart and frazier
4.Lance Nix- no one can argue he wouldn't be a great platoon with heisey
5.Jason Kubel- would work in LF but probably out of the reds price range
6.Rich Harden- one year incentive deal
7.Eric Bedard- one year incentive deal
8.Dontrelle Willis- one year incentive deal
9.Octavio Dotel- one year incentive based deal
10. Joel Zumya- minor league deal
11.Arthur Rhodes- one year incentive based deal
12.Josh Reddick from boston for Phipps
13.Jeremey Hellickson from tampa for yonder and a lower level SS prospect
14.Chad Billingsley from dodgers for Sappelt, Fransisco, and a lower level pitching prospect
15.send bronson to either seattle or san deigo for a low level pitching prospect

okay mine were more of will put in the starting lineup to back up at worst type of deals. But come on, obviously by the news of how little other GMs actually think of Alonso I went sell low on most of these trades. I mean you have us trading Alonso and a low level SS prospect for the d@mn 2011 AL Rookie of the Year. Are you kidding me? I got made fun of because I gave him for Andrew Bailey which I view is not the greatest return but because of his lack of power might be around what he gets. And no one is taking Bronson unless we eat the signing bonus part of the deal and/or send a prospect or two with him.

dMaus14
11-30-2011, 01:22 PM
David DeJesus: 2 years and $11M

I was pretty close with that contract! Signed for 2 years an $10M with the Cubs.

alett12
11-30-2011, 02:43 PM
okay mine were more of will put in the starting lineup to back up at worst type of deals. But come on, obviously by the news of how little other GMs actually think of Alonso I went sell low on most of these trades. I mean you have us trading Alonso and a low level SS prospect for the d@mn 2011 AL Rookie of the Year. Are you kidding me? I got made fun of because I gave him for Andrew Bailey which I view is not the greatest return but because of his lack of power might be around what he gets. And no one is taking Bronson unless we eat the signing bonus part of the deal and/or send a prospect or two with him.

You were not selling low, Andrew Bailey is no where close to being worth yonder and frazier, John Danks isn't worth it for travis wood straight up Danks was horrible last year too, the Rays have said they must be blown away for Sheilds, Liriano i'm not sure can pitch multiple seasons in a row, Chris Heisey should be the guy in left thus the cuban is pointless, Jed Lowrie isn't worth Masset, heck i'm amazed after reading that you didn't want to trade away phillips, votto, bruce, and mesoraco too. My ideas are one the reds might actually be able to afford if you look at the salaries they would have to pay.

dMaus14
11-30-2011, 03:06 PM
Truth be told my main focus this offseason would be to find the absolute best return for Votto and trade him. Getting a SP, either a SS,3B or LF that are ML players and 2 SP prospects in return. Because I think getting his return and the return from package or two of our prospects will make us better. But back to my targets ... John Danks wasn't horrible last year, Bronson Arroyo was horrible. I don't even think Danks did bad. He played on a bad team! The White Sox play in a hitter friendly ballpark and was still ranked 18th for runs scored in a year. If Travis Wood could put up Danks numbers I wouldn't trade him either but he doesn't nor does anyone in our rotation. Look it up! IP, ERA, WAR. Not one person in rotation for the past 4 years has averaged 195 IP, 3.75 ERA and a 3.4 WAR. Hell the guy according to you had a horrible year and still had more innings and a better WAR than our best pitcher, while only winning 1 game less. Hell, Gavin Floyd has done better in the past 4 years than any of our starters. I want them both!

alett12
11-30-2011, 03:12 PM
ERA, WAR, both BS stats. Danks lost his 1st 10 games if you let Wood pitch a whole season i would like to see his stats especaily if he took the same stratagey as leake uses and just goes after guys don't be like bronson and paint the corners and there is no way the soxs ballpark is more hitter friendly than GABP

brm7675
11-30-2011, 05:51 PM
I would be shocked if Walt makes anything over 2 or 3 deals this offseason. There is zero chance of major deals with players on the ML roster. We are going to maybe deal off some of our younger talent, but even then it will be very limited I feel.

dMaus14
12-01-2011, 02:46 AM
I don't think we need or will sign Yoenis Cespedes but do you think that the Reds could have a legitimate shot? I believe he is asking between $35-60M; I know that a lot of people started to leave the race for Chapman because he was asking $40-60M before we came in an signed him for 6/$30. Could we possibly sign Cespedes for 6/$40?

alett12
12-01-2011, 11:30 AM
I don't think we need or will sign Yoenis Cespedes but do you think that the Reds could have a legitimate shot? I believe he is asking between $35-60M; I know that a lot of people started to leave the race for Chapman because he was asking $40-60M before we came in an signed him for 6/$30. Could we possibly sign Cespedes for 6/$40?

It would just be a waste even if stubbs gets sent down i think that you put heisey in center and Sappelt in left he wouldn't do as well as they will i don't think.

izzy's dad
12-01-2011, 12:09 PM
ERA, WAR, both BS stats. Danks lost his 1st 10 games if you let Wood pitch a whole season i would like to see his stats especaily if he took the same stratagey as leake uses and just goes after guys don't be like bronson and paint the corners and there is no way the soxs ballpark is more hitter friendly than GABP

Just curious, how are ERA and WAR b.s. stats? And as far as U.S. Cellular field not being the hitters park that GABP is, that is false. According to ESPN 2007-20011 U.S. Cellular field has surrendered both more home runs and earned runs than Great American Ball Park.

FireDusty
12-01-2011, 03:03 PM
Exactly none of those trades will ever happen.

This club needs a new manager that will get the kids up and running. That new manager could then decide if the pitching coach is what he wants..and if not..get someone in here that can get better results.

All anyone on here has done is propose that we send young talent out the door for other teams average talent.

I hope and pray that Walt doesn't make trades just to make trades. The talent to compete for a division title is already here.

What we don't have is a field manager that knows the first thing about breakin talented young players into the big league.

We will be getting a new field manager sometime around mid May or early June.

dMaus14
12-01-2011, 04:30 PM
I completely agree that Dusty needs to go! He ruins young pitchers and always has. Price, I think does a pretty good job but won't have a serious effect until Dusty is gone.

As for the trades...

The Reds have a ton of young position talent through out the farm system. There is not shortage of young position players at ML or AAA. The one thing our farm system does lack is high profile arms at the higher minor league level. Go off of prospect sites, all of our best SP arms in the top 25 are at or below Single A Dayton, which would put them minimally two years away.

I will say I get confused reading on here sometimes because it sounds like some people want to play for 2012-2013 by trading some of our better young talent to get some more expensive players at SP, thus weakening our already weak positions and constricting us to make depth moves, basically saying I hope those rookies can perform. But what chips do we give up and for who?

Some people want to make decisions to keep Votto like not signing Brandon Phillips to an extension, or not adding more expensive SP that are available via trade like a John Danks because his contract will affect Votto's contract. Okay, what pitchers do we use that will perform consistantly? Cueto? began and ended the year on the DL? Bailey? hasn't throw over 167 IP in all 4 years with the Reds?Who will play 2B in 2013 after is option is up? Valaika?? Frazier?? Janish?? or a low cost stop gap? Who will provide BP's production?

Then there are some people who want to trade Votto because we can't afford him next year let alone 2014 and beyond, yet think we can still compete with his return (I am in the last group because of our young talent). Who will replicate Votto's production?

A lot of questions and scenerios. Glad I'm not in Walt's shoes.

FireDusty
12-01-2011, 05:08 PM
I completely agree that Dusty needs to go! He ruins young pitchers and always has. Price, I think does a pretty good job but won't have a serious effect until Dusty is gone.

As for the trades...

The Reds have a ton of young position talent through out the farm system. There is not shortage of young position players at ML or AAA. The one thing our farm system does lack is high profile arms at the higher minor league level. Go off of prospect sites, all of our best SP arms in the top 25 are at or below Single A Dayton, which would put them minimally two years away.

I will say I get confused reading on here sometimes because it sounds like some people want to play for 2012-2013 by trading some of our better young talent to get some more expensive players at SP, thus weakening our already weak positions and constricting us to make depth moves, basically saying I hope those rookies can perform. But what chips do we give up and for who?

Some people want to make decisions to keep Votto like not signing Brandon Phillips to an extension, or not adding more expensive SP that are available via trade like a John Danks because his contract will affect Votto's contract. Okay, what pitchers do we use that will perform consistantly? Cueto? began and ended the year on the DL? Bailey? hasn't throw over 167 IP in all 4 years with the Reds?Who will play 2B in 2013 after is option is up? Valaika?? Frazier?? Janish?? or a low cost stop gap? Who will provide BP's production?

Then there are some people who want to trade Votto because we can't afford him next year let alone 2014 and beyond, yet think we can still compete with his return (I am in the last group because of our young talent). Who will replicate Votto's production?

A lot of questions and scenerios. Glad I'm not in Walt's shoes.

The high minor league armns are here. We need to coach them better. The talent to have a good staff is here right now.

izzy's dad
12-01-2011, 09:53 PM
I agree that there is talent among the young arms that we currently have. The problem is that I believe that their talent is grossly overrated on this board, as are most if not all of our "prospects." Travis Wood, and Mike Leake are at their peak #3 type starting pitchers. Homer Bailey has shown flashes, but his inconsistency and habit to implode have me wondering if he will ever be able to reach his potential. As is, Homer is a #5, and a headache. Edinson Volquez couldn't find a strike zone with a Garmin. Aroldis Chapman has ace potential, I am begining to wonder if the Reds have completely screwed to pooch with this guy. My guess is that he will never realize his potential as a starter with our Reds, and will leave either through free agency or trade never having started a full season in Cinci. Johnny Cueto is the only guy on this staff that even comes close to being a top of the rotation type of pitcher. Minus the injuries, he was a stud last year. This team cannot continue to depend on question mark kind of guys. The need for starting pitching is undenialble. That is why I am a proponent of trading prospects and young talented guys for proven major league talent. Sometimes it comes back to bite you on the butt. And other times you make the right move and end up getting great value. It really is a crapshoot. I can't tell you with 100% certainty that if the Reds trade Yonder Alonso, or any other young guy for a proven ball player that it will work out. I can say with 100% certainty that this team will not win a World Series as constructed. To win you must take chances, and I believe trading for pitching, and signing a proven run producer will greatly improve our chances of winning. If the Reds keep Yonder, and he becomes a Paul Konerko type of hitter, than I will GLADLY eat crow. But Paul Konerko he is not right now. And he seems to be the best way that this team can get a decent arm to help our rotation. This team needs to make a move or two to improve. If you aren't improving, you are in decline.

dMaus14
12-01-2011, 11:15 PM
I think it is safe to that 2012 can be seen as the deciding year that either makes this franchise jump forward or fall backwards. I hope the right moves are made. I also firmly believe going all in to TRY and win a WS at the cost of a lot of prospect isn't moving forward. I've read all offseason about how Kenny Williams doesn't know whether to try and win this year or possibly rebuild with young ML talent via trades. I must say that I think we are in the same boat. We were 17 GB in the central and 11 GB the wild card. That doesn't seem like a team on the cusp. Not to mention we don't really have the financial ability to make "major" upgrades via free agency. Jocketty seemed to have kept his prospects close to acquire "major" upgrades via trade.

We have a rookie question mark at SS; we have a injury prone over the hill 3B only to be replaced by a rookie question mark; our back up catcher is a rookie question mark while our starting catcher is good but is he good enough to be a 60-40 or 70-30 type of catcher? We have questions about LF on whether we should play Alonso, Heisey and Sappelt (two of which are unproven and one has performed well in a platoon role). We have a very underperforming rotation with little to no replacements in the org (Chapman is not our savior). We lost our closer and our bullpen was worn out because of their use last season! A lot of questions that need answers if we want to contend.