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View Full Version : Rosenthal says Reds should go for it



Jerry Narron
12-15-2011, 10:48 AM
Interesting read on Rosenthal's thoughts on the Reds going for it this year.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/cincinnati-reds-need-to-trade-for-pitching-121411


These quotes from Walt are frustrating.


“There’s an opportunity,” Jocketty said. “But we feel that if we did nothing, we’d still have a club capable of contending and competing in our division all year. We felt that way last year. We just had some things that didn’t go well for us.

If he plans on doing the same thing this year, the Reds are in a whole new world of trouble.

texasdave
12-15-2011, 10:56 AM
I have seen people post nonsense to the effect that Walt has to make those sorts of statements or else other GMs will try to make him overpay on trades. Yes, this is nonsense. GMs of other teams aren't stupid. They can plainly see that Reds pitchers pretty much held up the league last year. When Walt calls other teams to ask about pitching I am pretty certain those other GMs can add one plus one and come up with the correct answer of two. Walt really is happy with his club. How many times has he said that and how long has he gone with doing anything? Walt thinks 3rd place and 79 wins is hunky dory I guess.

R_Webb18
12-15-2011, 01:24 PM
I have seen people post nonsense to the effect that Walt has to make those sorts of statements or else other GMs will try to make him overpay on trades. Yes, this is nonsense. GMs of other teams aren't stupid. They can plainly see that Reds pitchers pretty much held up the league last year. When Walt calls other teams to ask about pitching I am pretty certain those other GMs can add one plus one and come up with the correct answer of two. Walt really is happy with his club. How many times has he said that and how long has he gone with doing anything? Walt thinks 3rd place and 79 wins is hunky dory I guess.

the reds will win 79 game + win division if they do nothing. mark it down.

SidneySlicker
12-16-2011, 09:42 AM
the reds will win 79 game + win division if they do nothing. mark it down.

I don't see it. Besides why set the bar low? If they are going to be content standing pat with all the youngins, they might as well just trade Joey Votto now and keep the youth movement going. I don't buy it.

Good teams/franchises (not that the Reds have been), strike while the iron's hot. Go all in or all out. Right now unfortunately it appears Jockety and the Reds are all out. smh

Jefferson24
12-16-2011, 11:01 AM
the reds will win 79 game + win division if they do nothing. mark it down.

The Cardinals lost Pujols but are getting Wainwright back. They always seem find a way to get the most out of their average players. I think we are still behind them if we do nothing.

powersackers
12-16-2011, 02:05 PM
The Cardinals lost Pujols but are getting Wainwright back. They always seem find a way to get the most out of their average players. I think we are still behind them if we do nothing.

I second that. And the other NL Central teams aren't done improving. The cubs could land Fielder or a TOR SP. The Brewers are no walk in the park, Bruan may be exhonorated and Fielder will be replaced with a pretty solid bat I"m sure.

79 wins will not win this division. 88 is my guess. We are not an 88 win team with our pitching staff. No way.

texasdave
12-16-2011, 03:05 PM
I second that. And the other NL Central teams aren't done improving. The cubs could land Fielder or a TOR SP. The Brewers are no walk in the park, Bruan may be exhonorated and Fielder will be replaced with a pretty solid bat I"m sure.

79 wins will not win this division. 88 is my guess. We are not an 88 win team with our pitching staff. No way.

Don't forget Cincinnati, at this point, has slid back IMO. Mesoraco may meet or exceed Razor's 2011 production. But Mesoraco is a rookie. And there is a fair chance he does not. Although I think eventually he does, he may not in 2012. Not too mention the loss of Cordero. I thought Coco got the job done many times in 2011 with smoke and mirrors. But, bottom line, he got it done.

dMaus14
12-16-2011, 03:24 PM
After reading that the Blue Jays have won the bid to negotiate with Yu Darvish, I would be willing to bet they are wanting to win now, especially with their names being in on Fielder and Beltran. It's obvious that they are looking for a power bat to compliment Bautista.

In the "If I was GM" thread I proposed a thread that I believed would help both the Blue Jays and the Reds.

Joey Votto and Homer Bailey
-FOR-
Yunel Escobar, Brandon Morrow, Deck McGuire and Kyle Drabek

Blue Jays get their power hitter to give probably the best #3-4 combo in all of baseball. They get a #3-5 type pitcher which provides a young pitcher with experience to the back end of the rotation.

Reds get their shortstop and lead off man in Escobar for 4 years, who is in the prime of his career. They get a #2-3 power arm to boost the rotation and is controlled for 2 years and is deserving of an extension. They also get two high potential power arms to supplement a weak upper organization SP prospects. This also allows Alonso to play a position he is comfortable with, 1B.

You now have the same prospects (minus Alonso) to get another SP (Sappelt, Heisey, Volquez, Wood, Corcinco, Grandal, Cozart). You have financial flexibility to go after a LF or another SP/CL. I would prefer to use Chapman as a CL. You could go after Wandy, Danks or Floyd to provide a suitable #2-3 and the rotation would be: Cueto, Morrow, Danks/Floyd/Wandy, Leake, Arroyo

powersackers
12-16-2011, 04:42 PM
After reading that the Blue Jays have won the bid to negotiate with Yu Darvish, I would be willing to bet they are wanting to win now, especially with their names being in on Fielder and Beltran. It's obvious that they are looking for a power bat to compliment Bautista.

In the "If I was GM" thread I proposed a thread that I believed would help both the Blue Jays and the Reds.

Joey Votto and Homer Bailey
-FOR-
Yunel Escobar, Brandon Morrow, Deck McGuire and Kyle Drabek

Blue Jays get their power hitter to give probably the best #3-4 combo in all of baseball. They get a #3-5 type pitcher which provides a young pitcher with experience to the back end of the rotation.

Reds get their shortstop and lead off man in Escobar for 4 years, who is in the prime of his career. They get a #2-3 power arm to boost the rotation and is controlled for 2 years and is deserving of an extension. They also get two high potential power arms to supplement a weak upper organization SP prospects. This also allows Alonso to play a position he is comfortable with, 1B.

You now have the same prospects (minus Alonso) to get another SP (Sappelt, Heisey, Volquez, Wood, Corcinco, Grandal, Cozart). You have financial flexibility to go after a LF or another SP/CL. I would prefer to use Chapman as a CL. You could go after Wandy, Danks or Floyd to provide a suitable #2-3 and the rotation would be: Cueto, Morrow, Danks/Floyd/Wandy, Leake, Arroyo

Our team would be a LOT better if we made this deal. IF Alonso is anywhere near as good as Votto. That's a big IF.

Ohayou
12-16-2011, 05:40 PM
After reading that the Blue Jays have won the bid to negotiate with Yu Darvish, I would be willing to bet they are wanting to win now, especially with their names being in on Fielder and Beltran..

If Fielder does eventually sign with the Blue Jays, I think I deserve a little something special for correctly predicting that in August. ;)

dMaus14
12-16-2011, 08:23 PM
Our team would be a LOT better if we made this deal. IF Alonso is anywhere near as good as Votto. That's a big IF.

Based on the stats from 2011 here is what we got as a team (Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Stubbs, Hernandez, Hanigan, Rolen, Cairo, Heisey, Gomes, Lewis, Janish, Renteria):

AVG: .255
OPS: .731
Hits: 1252
HR: 162
R: 648

Based of Bill James Projections for 2012 (after my Jays trade) the position players will be (Phillips, Stubbs, Bruce, Alonso, Mesoraco, Hanigan, Escobar, Rolen, Francisco, Frazier, Cairo, Heisey):

AVG: .265
OPS: .764
Hits: 1244
HR: 156
R: 633

Your rotation would be better after that trade. You would have more money available to buy a LF on free agancy like Cespedes, Beltran; or a CL; or make a trade for more pitching with the prospects you saved: Sappelt, Cozart, Wood, Volquez, Grandal, Frazier, Heisey, Corcinco). I just think there are ways to get better without keeping Votto and spending a ton of money.

RedsBrick
12-17-2011, 07:21 PM
The Cardinals lost Pujols but are getting Wainwright back. They always seem find a way to get the most out of their average players. I think we are still behind them if we do nothing.

I've always thought the same thing. We'll see if that continues without LaRussa in the dugout.