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View Full Version : The Future: An Overrated Proposition



Cant Touch This
12-22-2011, 02:03 AM
The biggest beef of those opposed to the Latos and Marshall trades is the Reds sacrificed too many pieces considered to play instrumental roles in "the future."

My question about that line of thinking is this: when exactly is "the future" and what do you realistically expect to happen?

For the sake of argument, let's just say "the future" is three years away. Why are we so concerned with what is going to happen in 2015 that we are unwilling to jeopardize that season for a real shot of going for it all in 2012? (and possibly 2013)

What's the purpose and benefit of stockpiling those guys in the minors now? To preserve the future? Okay, let's say those trades didn't happen because the Reds wanted to preserve "The future." Those three guys could have been our catcher, first baseman, and closer in 2015. Okay great - who is going to play second in 2015? Who's the ace of the staff? What happened to Mez? How many games do we have to face Votto? How many Reds would Latos whiff?

The question you must ask yourself is: Would you rather have Grandal catching, Alonso at 1B, an unknown 2B and no ace like Latos on the hill in 2015, or would you rather have Mez, Votto, Phillips, and Latos right now?

To me it's a no brainer. The clock is ticking folks. Most teams are not built to win a string of championships anymore. The Reds haven't played in a World Series since 1990, and it looks like the brass is doing whatever it can to put this team in position to contend for the NL pennant THIS YEAR.

Why would anyone expect a team who hasn't played in a single World Series in more than 20 years to pass up an immediate opportunity only for the sake of rolling the dice on a group of talented, yet unproven players who may have a nice season in three years?

Besides, if you want to get deep about it, this 2012 season is now "the future" as it was discussed in the year 2009. It's also the past when we talk about it in the year 2015. Forget about the era - it's pointless - just win while you have the pieces in place to win.

dMaus14
12-22-2011, 03:27 AM
I thought that whether we traded Joey Votto or Yonder Alonso we could compete this year. Either way I thought one of them had to go! I don't think we overpaid for Latos; I don't think we overpaid for Marshall;

In two years if Votto walks all of our lower level prospects will be up within the year or so! Plus we will have PLENTY of Money to work with in free agency!

Hamilton, Corcinco, Soto, Lotzkar, Barnhart, Y. Rodriguez, H. Rodriguez, LaMarre, Greene, Gregorious, Joseph will all be either major league ready or heading into AAA after Votto leaves!

So personally I don't see years of rebuilding especially when Bruce, Cueto, Chapman, Leake, Latos, Bailey, Ondrusek, Jordan Smith, Lecure, Hanigan, Mesoraco, Cozart, Stubbs, Heisey, Arredondo are all controlled through 2014; That's 15 of our 25 man roster!

OGB
12-22-2011, 04:25 AM
I could not agree more

texasdave
12-22-2011, 04:29 AM
IMO opinion Walt is making these moves a year late. But, hey, at least he is making them. So Kudos to Walt (and Bob). Now that the chips have been pushed 2/3s of the way in do not stop now. I am not a Baker backer. But I would love to see him extended at the end of this season. That would probably mean the Reds made the postseason. Again. =)

The Rage
12-22-2011, 04:57 AM
The future is all you got if you are crunched for cash. The Reds have been on a role since 2004 with number 1 picks.

Look at 1997-03 and what has happened since. Makes doing deals easier.

The Rage
12-22-2011, 04:59 AM
IMO opinion Walt is making these moves a year late. But, hey, at least he is making them. So Kudos to Walt (and Bob). Now that the chips have been pushed 2/3s of the way in do not stop now. I am not a Baker backer. But I would love to see him extended at the end of this season. That would probably mean the Reds made the postseason. Again. =)

It isn't a year late. Walt wasn't getting any hits. Having Grandel and Boxburger put up big years with Alonso hitting well during his brief stint in the majors helped push one over. You can't force nobody to take what you got.

texasdave
12-22-2011, 05:06 AM
It isn't a year late. Walt wasn't getting any hits. Having Grandel and Boxburger put up big years with Alonso hitting well during his brief stint in the majors helped push one over. You can't force nobody to take what you got.

Whatever. You work in the front office? Great. Sundeck still has an insider. You don't have a single clue whether Walt could or could not have made any trades. I am 100% certain he could have done more than Renteria and Lewis.
According to you Walt was bringing home a closer from the Winter Meeting at the very least. Wrong.
According to you Walt had lost his nerve to pull the trigger after the Haren deal. Latos. Wrong. Marshall. Wrong.

IMO, it is a year late.

dMaus14
12-22-2011, 05:25 AM
My only complaint about a lack of deals is I thought we needed a hitter or SS and we didn't get one! I think everyone knew Gomes wouldn't repeat what he did! I didn't think our rotation would be as good they were in 2010 but I also didn't think they would be as bad as they were in 2011.

I was upset at the deadline when teams were wanting Hernandez and others that we were trying to get a return! I don't know if that was Walt or Bob but it is what it is!

As an organization my only complaint is I wish we had more pitching heavy prospects than position players but oh well! I think you get more what you want out of trades involving SP prospects than position player prospects except for those rare Alonso, Grandal types. Just my $.02

Tuff Nut
12-22-2011, 12:54 PM
If the Reds draft well, and continue to develope talent, then trading prospects for top ML talent becomes easier to take. The system's not depleted, just weeded out.

jhu1321
12-22-2011, 02:39 PM
We can replenish the farm system when we trade Votto in the middle of the 2013 season.

The Rage
12-22-2011, 02:45 PM
Whatever. You work in the front office? Great. Sundeck still has an insider. You don't have a single clue whether Walt could or could not have made any trades. I am 100% certain he could have done more than Renteria and Lewis.
According to you Walt was bringing home a closer from the Winter Meeting at the very least. Wrong.
According to you Walt had lost his nerve to pull the trigger after the Haren deal. Latos. Wrong. Marshall. Wrong.

IMO, it is a year late.

Again, why? No deal was made last year, but this year. Why was that? Could it have been nobody was inspired what the Reds were offering. Alonso was coming off a broken wrist, Grandel had just been drafted and Boxberger struggled as a reliever. The Reds targetted Mes as a untouchable and thus we had what we had.

Maybe we should try to stop forcing our beliefs into the situation and accept it at face value. The Reds didn't have the goods to get deals done last year as we saw fit for the future and present of the organization.