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View Full Version : Is It Still Worth Adding Cordero?



The DARK
12-22-2011, 07:50 PM
Without him:

Fisher/Horst
Lecure
Bray
Ondrusek
Masset
Arredondo
Marshall (Closer)

That's not too bad, but our options in the back of the pen don't look too optimal, especially without Boxberger. If somebody goes down (inevitable) or doesn't perform (likely), we seem to start scraping the barrel a bit.

With him:

Lecure
Bray
Ondrusek
Masset
Arredondo
Marshall
Cordero (Closer)

Suddenly we have more backups in AAA, a clear role for everybody on the roster, and Marshall will likely pitch more innings (setup men usually do). We get a real clubhouse presence back as well, and this looks like one of the best bullpens in all of baseball. We appear to be the only major players for Cordero now that the Red Sox have bowed out, and he wants to come back. There's no better time to get him at a discount.

All that said, the fine details of his pitching recently look pretty poor. His velocity and strikeouts are down, the peripherals look bad, and we saw a lot of games last season get too close for comfort in the 9th. Left field looks like a more pressing situation, and this would likely hurt our chances of signing a major solution like Beltran. What's more, we'd likely have to sign him to a two-year deal.

Would you jump on this opportunity? I would. I doubt we're major players for Beltran, and it wouldn't make a big enough dent in the salary to hurt our chances of extending Votto or Phillips. What say you, Sun Deck?

sdwagers
12-22-2011, 08:15 PM
I go for Madson vs. CoCo - I wouldn't be upset to see CoCo but he never seems to have a clean inning. Always drama late.

I dont think Carlos Beltran is coming to Cincinnati unless its in another uniform.

The DARK
12-22-2011, 08:25 PM
Madson looks nice, but his asking price is going to be a lot higher. I suppose it depends on if we're able to extend Marshall or not.

brm7675
12-22-2011, 08:38 PM
Problem is Reds don't see Marshall as closer...setup guy.

UPRedsFan
12-22-2011, 09:23 PM
I'm saying no. Find another option. Cordero is getting older. Someone among that group will emerge. Or you mix and match. If the Phillies have Rollins, Utley and Howard coming to bat in the ninth, Marshall is my guy. If it's a group of right handed hitters, I'm using Arredondo.

Use the money for a left fielder or another solid starter since we're getting a little thin in the starting rotation now. Down to 6 counting Chapman and we know Bailey can't make 30 starts.

The Rage
12-22-2011, 09:27 PM
I'm saying no. Find another option. Cordero is getting older. Someone among that group will emerge. Or you mix and match. If the Phillies have Rollins, Utley and Howard coming to bat in the ninth, Marshall is my guy. If it's a group of right handed hitters, I'm using Arredondo.

Use the money for a left fielder or another solid starter since we're getting a little thin in the starting rotation now. Down to 6 counting Chapman and we know Bailey can't make 30 starts.

Bailey will make well more than 30 starts if they fix his mechanical glitch.

Hondo
12-22-2011, 10:10 PM
Bailey will make well more than 30 starts if they fix his mechanical glitch.

I would be 100% in FAVOR of Having Homer Bailey as Closer...


It worked for Mariano Rivera and Joe Nathan... It can work for Homer...

takealeake
12-22-2011, 10:10 PM
Cordero is trash, hell no.

Alpha Zero
12-22-2011, 11:37 PM
Cordero should not be brought back. The supplemental pick that the Reds will get if he signs elsewhere will be much more valuable than the marginal boost he'll give to the Reds pen if they sign him.

I'd name Marshall the closer and sign Lidge as a reclamation project to duke it out with Brackman for the seventh spot in the pen. That gives us Bray, Masset, Ondrusek, Marshall, Lecure, Arredondo, and one of Lidge/Brackman. I think that's a pretty solid group. Not the world's greatest pen, but it should be solidly above average without costing a fortune.

If the Reds can fill the last spot in the pen for a couple million bucks, they'd still have about $5MM to find a solution for the LF problem.

AintlifeGrande
12-23-2011, 12:04 AM
Cordero is trash, hell no.

I dont call game average 30 saves a season trash.

nmculbreth
12-23-2011, 12:24 AM
I'd pass. His peripherals have been trending in the wrong direction for the past few years and his departure will score the club an extra draft pick to help re-stock the farm system after the Latos and Marshall deals.

I'd rather make a play for Madson and if that doesn't pan out make a play for some cheaper options like Juan Cruz, Hong-Chih Kuo, Mike Gonzalez and Kerry Wood.

The DARK
12-23-2011, 12:44 AM
I'd forgotten about the supplemental. That probably lowers his value by a few million.

Nathan
12-23-2011, 01:04 AM
I'd forgotten about the supplemental. That probably lowers his value by a few million.

Why?

The DARK
12-23-2011, 01:35 AM
Why?

Simply because we get value out of not having him back. How much do you value having a supplemental pick? Even if it's no more than $1 million, you have to factor that in when you pay him.

Nathan
12-23-2011, 01:46 AM
Simply because we get value out of not having him back. How much do you value having a supplemental pick? Even if it's no more than $1 million, you have to factor that in when you pay him.

No offense, but, that really doesn't make much sense.

If you wanted him, you'd pay him, damn the picks. I have a hard time seeing the fact that a supplemental pick would even be brought up in the negotiations.

(We would sign you for 8MM, and honestly think you are worth that, but, sense signing you would cost us a draft pick that we'd get if you signed elsewhere, we only will offer you 7MM.) nah.

nmculbreth
12-23-2011, 02:02 AM
No offense, but, that really doesn't make much sense.

If you wanted him, you'd pay him, damn the picks. I have a hard time seeing the fact that a supplemental pick would even be brought up in the negotiations.

(We would sign you for 8MM, and honestly think you are worth that, but, since signing you would cost us a draft pick that we'd get if you signed elsewhere, we only will offer you 7MM.) nah.

It makes perfect sense. One of the biggest complaints in the previous CBA's compensation system was that the type-A compensation requirements depressed the value of non-elite type-A players (particularly RPs) because teams didn't want to pay a fair market value and surrender a late first / early second round pick for a players who weren't superstars.

The new CBA was a godsend for the Reds because when Cordero and Hernandez were re-classified from type-A to type-B status, the Reds were automatically granted comp picks for both players without having to offer them arbitration - and run the risk that either would accept.

Letting Cordero walk unless he's willing to sign very cheaply - which seems unlikely - is the smart play.

Nathan
12-23-2011, 03:00 AM
It makes perfect sense. One of the biggest complaints in the previous CBA's compensation system was that the type-A compensation requirements depressed the value of non-elite type-A players (particularly RPs) because teams didn't want to pay a fair market value and surrender a late first / early second round pick for a players who weren't superstars.

The new CBA was a godsend for the Reds because when Cordero and Hernandez were re-classified from type-A to type-B status, the Reds were automatically granted comp picks for both players without having to offer them arbitration - and run the risk that either would accept.

Letting Cordero walk unless he's willing to sign very cheaply - which seems unlikely - is the smart play.

It was basically because teams weren't willing to give up their own draft picks to the other teams for signing guys. No team would lose a pick for signing Cordero, so, his value is equal all around. They aren't going to low-ball him unless they aren't serious about signing him. The Reds never offered him arbitration (and if they did, I would be shocked if he didn't accept, simply because it would've greatly benefited him to do so), so, they didn't really ask for the draft pick. I don't think it diminishes his value at all with the Reds.

They got extremely lucky with Hernandez.

Crumbley
12-23-2011, 05:29 AM
If he'd come back for a one year deal, absolutely. If not, nah.

Alpha Zero
12-23-2011, 08:21 AM
It was basically because teams weren't willing to give up their own draft picks to the other teams for signing guys. No team would lose a pick for signing Cordero, so, his value is equal all around. They aren't going to low-ball him unless they aren't serious about signing him. The Reds never offered him arbitration (and if they did, I would be shocked if he didn't accept, simply because it would've greatly benefited him to do so), so, they didn't really ask for the draft pick. I don't think it diminishes his value at all with the Reds.

They got extremely lucky with Hernandez.

The Reds were definitely extremely lucky with both Hernandez and Cordero. Both guys net the Reds a supplemental pick if they sign elsewhere. No offer of arbitration is required for either player under the new CBA.

You're right that Cordero's status does not depress his value on the FA market since the signing team does not have to surrender a pick. However, if the Reds re-sign him, they won't get the aforementioned supplemental pick. This makes him worth fewer dollars to the Reds due to the fact that there is some benefit in letting him walk. I doubt that this is brought up in any contract negotiations, but it most definitely should impact the max dollars that the Reds are willing to offer.

The DARK
12-23-2011, 01:50 PM
The Reds were definitely extremely lucky with both Hernandez and Cordero. Both guys net the Reds a supplemental pick if they sign elsewhere. No offer of arbitration is required for either player under the new CBA.

You're right that Cordero's status does not depress his value on the FA market since the signing team does not have to surrender a pick. However, if the Reds re-sign him, they won't get the aforementioned supplemental pick. This makes him worth fewer dollars to the Reds due to the fact that there is some benefit in letting him walk. I doubt that this is brought up in any contract negotiations, but it most definitely should impact the max dollars that the Reds are willing to offer.

Definitely. Unless Cordero's willing to sign for cheaper than he normally would on the FA market, signing Madson is a smarter play.

Old NDN
12-27-2011, 02:30 PM
My problem with Cordero is/was the 12 million he was making. If he's willing to come back for a 1-2 yr deal at couple mil per, fine. If not, stay home. I think if he's worth more, somebody would have already signed him. The Reds are probably his only viable option now. Madson is cost-prohibitive, IMO.

jhu1321
12-27-2011, 02:37 PM
My problem with Cordero is/was the 12 million he was making. If he's willing to come back for a 1-2 yr deal at couple mil per, fine. If not, stay home. I think if he's worth more, somebody would have already signed him. The Reds are probably his only viable option now. Madson is cost-prohibitive, IMO.

Agreed, Madson is going to be too expensive and is reportedly looking for a 4 year deal. Didn't we just experience what happens to closer's signed to a long term deal? I'd say offer Coco a one year deal worth 3-4 mil and if he rebuffs, move on......

jmt5887
12-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Overall I didn't mind Coco that much. sure his problems irritated me sometimes but over all he was a good closer and help settle the abomination that was the Cincinnati Reds Bullpen. If he wants to return 1-2 at 4-7 million a year I would be for it. With having Marshall, Ondrusek, Massett, Bray, etc. He'll have a shorter leash then he did in the last 4 years.

swaisuc
12-27-2011, 03:42 PM
I'd pass. His peripherals have been trending in the wrong direction for the past few years and his departure will score the club an extra draft pick to help re-stock the farm system after the Latos and Marshall deals.

I'd rather make a play for Madson and if that doesn't pan out make a play for some cheaper options like Juan Cruz, Hong-Chih Kuo, Mike Gonzalez and Kerry Wood.

Can you be more specific about this? His K rate and his homer rate both got worse, but his walk rate, WHIP, and ERA were all much improved.

I really don't care who they decide on, but I support spending some money on a proven closer, whether its him or someone else.

izzy's dad
12-27-2011, 04:12 PM
Cordero is still a quality pitcher, but not worth more than a one year deal. He is due for a pretty sharp decline. So anything more than a 1 year deal with a 1 year club option for around 4 mil. per year is a no for me.

Pete4prez
12-27-2011, 10:00 PM
I would go with Marshall as closer and out that money toward LF.

Outlaw133
12-27-2011, 10:22 PM
Without him:

Fisher/Horst
Lecure
Bray
Ondrusek
Masset
Arredondo
Marshall (Closer)

That's not too bad, but our options in the back of the pen don't look too optimal, especially without Boxberger. If somebody goes down (inevitable) or doesn't perform (likely), we seem to start scraping the barrel a bit.

With him:

Lecure
Bray
Ondrusek
Masset
Arredondo
Marshall
Cordero (Closer)

Suddenly we have more backups in AAA, a clear role for everybody on the roster, and Marshall will likely pitch more innings (setup men usually do). We get a real clubhouse presence back as well, and this looks like one of the best bullpens in all of baseball. We appear to be the only major players for Cordero now that the Red Sox have bowed out, and he wants to come back. There's no better time to get him at a discount.

All that said, the fine details of his pitching recently look pretty poor. His velocity and strikeouts are down, the peripherals look bad, and we saw a lot of games last season get too close for comfort in the 9th. Left field looks like a more pressing situation, and this would likely hurt our chances of signing a major solution like Beltran. What's more, we'd likely have to sign him to a two-year deal.

Would you jump on this opportunity? I would. I doubt we're major players for Beltran, and it wouldn't make a big enough dent in the salary to hurt our chances of extending Votto or Phillips. What say you, Sun Deck?

Depends on the price.

nmculbreth
12-28-2011, 12:25 AM
Can you be more specific about this? His K rate and his homer rate both got worse, but his walk rate, WHIP, and ERA were all much improved.

I really don't care who they decide on, but I support spending some money on a proven closer, whether its him or someone else.

In my humble opinion his ERA and WHIP numbers don't tell the full story about what he's doing on the mound.

The first thing to look at is his five year FIP progression:

2.24
3.77
3.10
3.92
4.02

This certainly isn't the kind of progression you'd like to see from your closer, or frankly any high leverage reliever. So let's look at why his FIP is moving in the wrong direction.

First and foremost here is his five year K/9 progression:

12.22
9.98
7.83
7.31
5.43

Then check out his swinging strikes percentages:

17.6%
12.5%
10.9%
8.3%
10.0%

Then let's look at how often batters are making contact with pitches inside the strikezone:

82.1%
81.2%
83.4%
87.7%
85.9%

Finally check out his average velocities of his two main pitches...

Average Fastball Velocity

94.9
94.7
95.0
94.5
93.0

Average Slider Velocity

88.1
86.8
88.3
88.6
86.1

While his ERA from last season looks good, it's largely a mirage built on an insanely low BABIP (.214 vs. his career average of .294) and a better than average strand percentage (82.3% vs. his career average of 76.9%). When you start to look at his underlying numbers it becomes pretty clear that his stuff isn't nearly as good as it was in years past. He's experienced significant declines in K/9 and swinging strike percentages, increased contact on pitches in the strike zone and decreased velocity in both his primary pitches.

At some point the house of cards is going to collapse and I'd rather not have him closing for the Reds when that happens.

texasdave
12-28-2011, 01:34 AM
To put it bluntly, Coco was a lucky dog last year. He did it with smoke and mirrors. He cannot possibly get that lucky again.

jhu1321
12-28-2011, 09:50 AM
In my humble opinion his ERA and WHIP numbers don't tell the full story about what he's doing on the mound.

The first thing to look at is his five year FIP progression:

2.24
3.77
3.10
3.92
4.02

This certainly isn't the kind of progression you'd like to see from your closer, or frankly any high leverage reliever. So let's look at why his FIP is moving in the wrong direction.

First and foremost here is his five year K/9 progression:

12.22
9.98
7.83
7.31
5.43

Then check out his swinging strikes percentages:

17.6%
12.5%
10.9%
8.3%
10.0%

Then let's look at how often batters are making contact with pitches inside the strikezone:

82.1%
81.2%
83.4%
87.7%
85.9%

Finally check out his average velocities of his two main pitches...

Average Fastball Velocity

94.9
94.7
95.0
94.5
93.0

Average Slider Velocity

88.1
86.8
88.3
88.6
86.1

While his ERA from last season looks good, it's largely a mirage built on an insanely low BABIP (.214 vs. his career average of .294) and a better than average strand percentage (82.3% vs. his career average of 76.9%). When you start to look at his underlying numbers it becomes pretty clear that his stuff isn't nearly as good as it was in years past. He's experienced significant declines in K/9 and swinging strike percentages, increased contact on pitches in the strike zone and decreased velocity in both his primary pitches.

At some point the house of cards is going to collapse and I'd rather not have him closing for the Reds when that happens.

Great post.

DGullett35
12-28-2011, 12:59 PM
That was a great post. I say we sign Cordero though. Marshall seems like the perfect fit for set-up man. a 7th and 8th inning guy, and adding CoCo gives the bullpen some depth. The bullpen just seems to look better on paper when you add Cordero to it. I agree though. only on a one year deal with possibly a team option and on the CHEAP because we do still need a LF

If I was making decisions for this team id have Chapman Close and save all the money for a LF but the orginization has already seemed to have there mind set on Chapmans role( Just seems like his talents have been a waste for the last year to year and a half)

nux fan
12-28-2011, 04:05 PM
cordero was lucky last year he will be even worse this year

DirtyBaker
12-28-2011, 04:31 PM
I just don't want Cordero closing. If he's okay being a 7th inning guy, middle reliever, and willing to get middle reliever money, fine. But he's not.

I was okay with Cordero's first 3/8s of the year. But his pre-All Star break collapse was the meltdown of all meltdowns.

July 6, 8, 9, and 10 against stl and mil. In those 4 critical games, 3.1 IP, 3 blown saves, 2 for losses, 7 ER, his ERA goes from under 1.5 to almost 3 and the team is absolutely deflated going into the final months of the year. I can't forgive him for that.

I have a horrible feeling he's going to get that $5M contract to come back but that money is better spent on a leadoff or power LF, bullpen depth, or other weaknesses.

AintlifeGrande
12-29-2011, 09:14 PM
We need to add Co Co back.Averaging 30 SV a season.Veteran presence,with a solid core of young arms in the pen.

izzy's dad
12-29-2011, 10:54 PM
If we do bring Cordero back I wouldn't mind the Reds taking a chance on a guy like David Aardsma. Coming off of an injury he could come pretty cheap. A minor league deal with a spring training invite perhaps. I just don't think the bullpen would be settled if we bring Coco back to Cinci. I want as many good arms in the bullpen as we can get our hands on, Aardsma might be good insurance if Cordero melts down or has a sharp decline.

DGullett35
12-30-2011, 11:51 AM
I would love to have Madsen. but at almost 10 mill or more a year its not going to happen. Coco will be back, I do agree tho we will need to sign another veteran arm to go into the back of the bullpen for insurance reasons. we should have never gotten rid of Rhodes IMO. the guy is a true professional and can still get it done in Sept. and Oct.

Old NDN
12-30-2011, 01:25 PM
If the Reds' window is "the next few years", then throw the money at Madson, especially if the LF problem isn't going to be upgraded. I tired of Cordero's escape act the last couple of years, in spite of the numbers he put up. If he's brought back, it would be a stop-gap signing that would have to be addressed the next year anyway.

brm7675
12-30-2011, 01:31 PM
To put it bluntly, Coco was a lucky dog last year. He did it with smoke and mirrors. He cannot possibly get that lucky again.

Really? Luck? 30 saves were luck? Look I will agree he wasn't worth 12 million, but to claim his success last season was based on luck is laughable. Co-Co still brings something to a team the question is at what cost. I would be okay with say a 2 year deal at around 5-6 million per year, but nothing more.

brm7675
12-30-2011, 01:33 PM
I just don't want Cordero closing. If he's okay being a 7th inning guy, middle reliever, and willing to get middle reliever money, fine. But he's not.

I was okay with Cordero's first 3/8s of the year. But his pre-All Star break collapse was the meltdown of all meltdowns.

July 6, 8, 9, and 10 against stl and mil. In those 4 critical games, 3.1 IP, 3 blown saves, 2 for losses, 7 ER, his ERA goes from under 1.5 to almost 3 and the team is absolutely deflated going into the final months of the year. I can't forgive him for that.

I have a horrible feeling he's going to get that $5M contract to come back but that money is better spent on a leadoff or power LF, bullpen depth, or other weaknesses.

People keep clamering for the Reds to spend the money on LF...what kind of quality LF would get for say 5-6 million a year that would be that much better then say Heisey in LF?

Jdattilo
12-30-2011, 02:23 PM
Fay reporting on Twitter that Reds are still talking to Coco about a one year deal.

The DARK
12-30-2011, 03:08 PM
A one year deal for Coco wouldn't be bad at all, but it's not like we have any heirs apparent at closer ready to take over once both Marshall and Cordero depart after the season. I'd take advantage of the Madson situation and lock him up for three years at a discount, maybe $24 million.

texasdave
12-30-2011, 03:43 PM
Really? Luck? 30 saves were luck? Look I will agree he wasn't worth 12 million, but to claim his success last season was based on luck is laughable. Co-Co still brings something to a team the question is at what cost. I would be okay with say a 2 year deal at around 5-6 million per year, but nothing more.

To blindly ignore what you saw on the field of play is laughable. To blindly ignore numbers such as a .214 BABIP and and 82+% strand rate is laughable. Let's see Coco repeat those numbers. It was luck.

nmculbreth
12-30-2011, 08:02 PM
Really? Luck? 30 saves were luck? Look I will agree he wasn't worth 12 million, but to claim his success last season was based on luck is laughable. Co-Co still brings something to a team the question is at what cost. I would be okay with say a 2 year deal at around 5-6 million per year, but nothing more.

Counting stats are more a measure of opportunity, rather than a useful tool to determine actual performance.

Cordero saved 37 games because he was the closer on semi-decent team and benefited from a BABIP and strand rate completely out of line with anything he's ever posted during the course of his career.

The reasons for calling Cordero's 2011 performance lucky have been laid out pretty clearly, if you want to ignore all of those points and cling to the notion that the number of saves is a fair indicator of performance feel free to do so, just don't be surprised when people aren't willing to buy that argument.

AintlifeGrande
12-30-2011, 08:58 PM
Really? Luck? 30 saves were luck? Look I will agree he wasn't worth 12 million, but to claim his success last season was based on luck is laughable. Co-Co still brings something to a team the question is at what cost. I would be okay with say a 2 year deal at around 5-6 million per year, but nothing more.

I agree.

cres36
12-31-2011, 08:35 PM
I vote we bring coco back simply for the fact that danny graves will no longer be the reds all time saves leader if he does!.....but seriosuly, if we can get him back for the right price i would pull the trigger, madson will be too expensive and coco outside of the two week span before the all star break really wasnt that bad. i know people say his numbers are a mirage but he was still getting the job done, roll with him one more year if the price is right and give yourself time to find a closer else where

DocRed
01-01-2012, 11:13 AM
God no please......

nux fan
01-01-2012, 07:36 PM
it is worth it to cut, waive, release, and sever all ties with the useless cordero

jhu1321
01-01-2012, 08:39 PM
We pick up a draft pick if we lose him as well.

Jr's Boy
01-02-2012, 12:43 AM
Well who in the heck do ya'll want to close?This team is not going to go out and spend millions of dollars on a Closer.

LegallyMinded
01-04-2012, 04:52 PM
Well who in the heck do ya'll want to close?This team is not going to go out and spend millions of dollars on a Closer.

There's no reason Marshall couldn't close. In high leverage situations last year, he turned in a 1.97 FIP, so it's not like he crumbles under pressure. Also, although he's a LHer, and there's a temptation to use him as a LH specialist, he's been effective against LH and RH batters throughout his career as a reliever.

As for spending millions on a closer, what exactly do you think Cordero will cost? Obviously he'll be cheaper than, say, Madson, but the Reds are still looking at paying him 7 million (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/reds-rumors-cordero-madson-phillips-theriot.html) or so. That's not exactly cheap for someone with Cordero's peripherals.

Red Raindog
01-04-2012, 05:19 PM
I vote we bring coco back simply for the fact that danny graves will no longer be the reds all time saves leader if he does!.....but seriosuly, if we can get him back for the right price i would pull the trigger, madson will be too expensive and coco outside of the two week span before the all star break really wasnt that bad. i know people say his numbers are a mirage but he was still getting the job done, roll with him one more year if the price is right and give yourself time to find a closer else where

I will agree that he put up decent numbers last year (excepting that fateful week where he blew up) --- but I think he had an incredibly lucky year --- I can't ignore that crazy .214 BABIP --- and his walk rate was near his career low.

Bill James is projecting him to go back to a career norm of .291 -- with an uptick in his K rate and his BB rate --

If I could snag Madson for nearly the same money I'd jump but as I read other places it appears the Reds have not even contacted Madson's agent!

:thumbdown:

americanoutlaw1
01-05-2012, 12:18 AM
Well who in the heck do ya'll want to close?This team is not going to go out and spend millions of dollars on a Closer.

They did 4 years ago... and if they don't I would support giving any number of internal options a shot. Just take the draft pick while you can and walk away from Coco.

The DARK
01-05-2012, 12:25 AM
I will agree that he put up decent numbers last year (excepting that fateful week where he blew up) --- but I think he had an incredibly lucky year --- I can't ignore that crazy .214 BABIP --- and his walk rate was near his career low.

Bill James is projecting him to go back to a career norm of .291 -- with an uptick in his K rate and his BB rate --

If I could snag Madson for nearly the same money I'd jump but as I read other places it appears the Reds have not even contacted Madson's agent!

:thumbdown:

If Marshall is an extension target, a closing role might be a big incentive for him, as it increases his value after the deal is complete. You don't really want Madson interfering if that's the case, otherwise Marshall might bolt and the Wood trade will have been a waste. Jocketty is looking for a short-term solution here.

I'd expect Jocketty to contact Boras if a 1 year deal becomes a reasonable suggestion for Madson. Otherwise, I expect us to either resign Cordero to a 1 year deal or win with our bullpen options and use the savings for something else.

Red Raindog
01-05-2012, 08:05 AM
If Marshall is an extension target, a closing role might be a big incentive for him, as it increases his value after the deal is complete. You don't really want Madson interfering if that's the case, otherwise Marshall might bolt and the Wood trade will have been a waste. Jocketty is looking for a short-term solution here.

I'd expect Jocketty to contact Boras if a 1 year deal becomes a reasonable suggestion for Madson. Otherwise, I expect us to either resign Cordero to a 1 year deal or win with our bullpen options and use the savings for something else.

That's how I see it too -- Madson has to be thinking that a one year deal for $7M or so and let's try this again might be his best path

What really rubs me the wrong way is the report that the Reds have not even contacted his agent.

Old NDN
01-05-2012, 06:33 PM
They did 4 years ago... and if they don't I would support giving any number of internal options a shot. Just take the draft pick while you can and walk away from Coco.

.....and when they signed Cordero, the Reds were not nearly as close to competing for a division as they are now. If they are truly going for it in 2012-14, why not sign a closer who is clearly on the upside (Madsen), instead of one who is clearly on the downslope (Cordero)? I know: It's all about the money.

I really don't see Marshall as closer material. How many sucessful closers are out there who get it done with a good curve and a fastball sitting at 90?

Tadasimha
01-05-2012, 11:01 PM
If Marshall is an extension target, a closing role might be a big incentive for him, as it increases his value after the deal is complete. You don't really want Madson interfering if that's the case, otherwise Marshall might bolt and the Wood trade will have been a waste. Jocketty is looking for a short-term solution here.

I'd expect Jocketty to contact Boras if a 1 year deal becomes a reasonable suggestion for Madson. Otherwise, I expect us to either resign Cordero to a 1 year deal or win with our bullpen options and use the savings for something else.

I heard from my brother about an hour ago that Cordero turned down the 1 year offer that Reds had for him. No details beyond that. Anyone else heard anything?

Red Raindog
01-05-2012, 11:21 PM
I heard from my brother about an hour ago that Cordero turned down the 1 year offer that Reds had for him. No details beyond that. Anyone else heard anything?

No --- ESPN Insider is reporting the Reds have the upper hand on Coco and they are also stating the Reds are about Madson's last hope --- but sometimes (often) I think they throw spagetti at a wall

sdwagers
01-07-2012, 09:32 AM
I can see a 1 year deal for CoCo with a team option, or sign Madson for 2 years. I prefer Madson and his 3.88 K/BB ratio (Coco is like 1.91) from last year.

nux fan
01-07-2012, 05:16 PM
I would rather add MarshallBridges or Ted Davidson