PDA

View Full Version : BCS bowls discussion



Roy Tucker
01-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Better late than never to put this thread up....

Congrats to Michigan. They played a nice game.

Been a bad couple nights for the losing teams' kickers.

Roy Tucker
01-04-2012, 09:55 AM
Oh, and I really don't understand how they overturned that TD catch for that VT guy in overtime. Something happened somewhere but I didn't see it at all. Looked like a great catch to me.

HotCorner
01-04-2012, 10:43 AM
I disagree about the catch. It was a spectacular effort but he never established possession of the ball while inbounds. His elbows/forearm land on the white which is out of bounds.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/846244/catch_medium.gif

That said, didn't the Michigan kicker false start on his winning kick? It sure looked like it to me.

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/1/4/2681285/2012-sugar-bowl-michigan-vs-virginia-tech-kicker-false-start-brendan-gibbons

Sea Ray
01-04-2012, 10:47 AM
Seems to me that his elbow initially touched in bounds and then slid out of bounds. I think that's like dragging a foot and it's considered inbounds

HotCorner
01-04-2012, 10:48 AM
Seems to me that his elbow initially touched in bounds and then slid out of bounds. I think that's like dragging a foot and it's considered inbounds

He doesn't have possession of the ball when he drags the foot.

Sea Ray
01-04-2012, 10:49 AM
Horrible, horrible in game coaching by Va Tech. That fake punt was pathetic and why pound the ball running twice between the tackles in OT when Mich had shown that they couldn't cover the receivers

Sea Ray
01-04-2012, 10:50 AM
He doesn't have possession of the ball when he drags the foot.

The foot has nothing to do with it. The arm/elbow touch first

HotCorner
01-04-2012, 10:55 AM
The foot has nothing to do with it. The arm/elbow touch first

Sorry. I miss read your initial comment.

Yes an elbow or forearm is equal to getting a foot down in bounds.

Sea Ray
01-04-2012, 11:36 AM
I don't see the ball moving at all. What makes you think he didn't have possession?

BuckeyeRed27
01-04-2012, 11:50 AM
I didn't think it was a catch live, but on the replay I think he got his left arm under it and it never moved when he hit the ground. I was pretty surprised they over turned it. I think it was one of those that should have just gone with the call on the field either way.

RBA
01-04-2012, 12:33 PM
I see one end of the football touching the ground during the catch. I thought that was a no-no.

CarolinaRedleg
01-04-2012, 12:34 PM
VT's reputation as a special teams juggernaut is just that at this point: reputation. (Full disclosure, I'm a Tech fan)

Consider:
Michigan's TD drive was aided by the roughing the punter penalty. Simply letting them get the kick off most likely results in decent field position.

A fumbled kickoff following the TD, which led to a field goal.

The fake punt, which Coale (the punter/receiver) alluded to being a particular play the team had never worked on before.
---
That's 13 of Michigan's points coming as a direct result of VT special teams gaffes.

Sea Ray
01-04-2012, 12:36 PM
I see one end of the football touching the ground during the catch. I thought that was a no-no.

Touching the ground in and of itself is not a no, no. The rule here is that the ground cannot assist the player in catching it.

Sea Ray
01-04-2012, 12:39 PM
The fake punt, which Coale (the punter/receiver) alluded to being a particular play the team had never worked on before.



That one really baffled me. It looked like he had the option to punt it and he should have seen that the play wasn't there right away. There was no hole for him to run through. Why didn't he punt it then? Brain lock on his part trying to be the hero

Roy Tucker
01-04-2012, 12:40 PM
I didn't think it was a catch live, but on the replay I think he got his left arm under it and it never moved when he hit the ground. I was pretty surprised they over turned it. I think it was one of those that should have just gone with the call on the field either way.

That was exactly my take on it too. When it happened live, I thought "no way that is a catch". Frankly, I thought there was no question. But on the replay, I thought "Holy cow, he did catch that". Or at least within a millimeter or two of making it.

I certainly didn't see "incontrovertible" evidence on the replay that he didn't make the catch. And since the ruling was a TD, I would have said keep it. Just like if it was ruled no catch, I'd say keep that too.

Either way, it was a heckuva effort by the VT receiver. He had a great game. And when they showed his face going from "unbelievable TD catch" to "no catch, no TD" to "crap, he missed the FG", I felt bad for him as a competitor.

jimbo
01-04-2012, 03:02 PM
He doesn't have possession of the ball when he drags the foot.

I disagree. It looks to me that he has the ball held up against him. Either way, it certainly doesn't look like enough evidence to overturn the call, regardless of how it was called on the field.

I think the review process needs to be seriously revamped. "Indisputable video evidence" seems to have several definitions, depending on the replay official.

Roy Tucker
01-04-2012, 03:30 PM
I think the review process needs to be seriously revamped. "Indisputable video evidence" seems to have several definitions, depending on the replay official.

Yeah, somehow the message isn't getting through. According to the NCAA, its says:



The instant replay process operates under the fundamental assumption that the ruling on the field is correct. The replay official may reverse a ruling if and only if the video evidence convinces him beyond all doubt that the ruling was incorrect. Without such indisputable video evidence, the replay official must allow the ruling to stand.


That looks awfully clear to me. Unless its plain as day, don't reverse the call. But I've seen a lot of "yeah, well, maybe, could be" overturns. I don't get it.

Interesting "2011 NCAA Football Instant Replay Casebook" read here...

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FBC11.pdf

OnBaseMachine
01-04-2012, 03:47 PM
I thought it was a catch also. Not sure how they could overturn it.

Horrible coaching by David Shaw at the end of the Stanford/Oklahoma State game. You have the ball at the Oklahoma State 25, with 50 seconds, three timeouts, and a superstar at QB, and you put the game in the hands of a freshman kicker? Seriously? Put the game in Luck's hands and he wins it.

Sea Ray
01-04-2012, 03:49 PM
Horrible coaching by David Shaw at the end of the Stanford/Oklahoma State game. You have the ball at the Oklahoma State 25, with 50 seconds, three timeouts, and a superstar at QB, and you put the game in the hands of a freshman kicker? Seriously? Put the game in Luck's hands and he wins it.

I totally agree and to hear the announcers drool over Shaw like a man crush was nauseating...

BuckeyeRed27
01-04-2012, 11:25 PM
Clemson is in full on melt down mode.

Stray
01-04-2012, 11:26 PM
West Virginia is destroying Clemson. Hilarious.

Slyder
01-04-2012, 11:29 PM
West Virginia is destroying Clemson. Hilarious.

This game is fun! Give that man a pay raise! We have our coach for the next two decades!

15fan
01-04-2012, 11:39 PM
The Rodney King beatdown wasn't even this bad.

Michigan in the Sugar followed 24 hours later by West Virginia in the Orange.

Somewhere RichRod is crying in a beer.

Slyder
01-04-2012, 11:42 PM
The Rodney King beatdown wasn't even this bad.

Michigan in the Sugar followed 24 hours later by West Virginia in the Orange.

Somewhere RichRod is crying in a beer.

Just gives Arizona more motivation to fire him in a couple years after seeing how his teams respond :D.

Stray
01-05-2012, 12:10 AM
Tavon Austin is ridiculous...fun to watch.

Although it sucked watching him make the Bearcat defense look bad.

Roy Tucker
01-05-2012, 12:16 AM
Will WVU hit 100?

WVRed
01-05-2012, 12:31 AM
Will WVU hit 100?

Doubt it. The backups are in now and Millard just threw a pick.


This game is fun! Give that man a pay raise! We have our coach for the next two decades!

Or until a higher level school decides they want a new coach.

If WVU couldn't keep Rich Rodriguez, a West Virginia native, as head coach, I don't see how they will be able to keep Holgorsen. Then again, you could say the same for Nehlen, who had the opportunity to leave for Wisconsin (which ultimately went to Barry Alvarez). I don't see Holgorsen having that loyalty, and if a Texas school opens and offers to get him off "The Island", it might happen.

Slyder
01-05-2012, 12:43 AM
Doubt it. The backups are in now and Millard just threw a pick.



Or until a higher level school decides they want a new coach.

If WVU couldn't keep Rich Rodriguez, a West Virginia native, as head coach, I don't see how they will be able to keep Holgorsen. Then again, you could say the same for Nehlen, who had the opportunity to leave for Wisconsin (which ultimately went to Barry Alvarez). I don't see Holgorsen having that loyalty, and if a Texas school opens and offers to get him off "The Island", it might happen.

Thats the thing I don't get. When Holgorsen was hired people complained he had no roots here. But he is building a house out in Cheat Lake somewhere (rumor) and people site Rich leaving as proof. But Dandy Don who also had no ties to this state stayed for 20+ years without as much as a whisper of him leaving (at least while I've been paying attention).

Which is Holgorsen? I don't know, but I always ask the question is it better to stick around and try to become the Bear Bryant of the school or is it better to go to where Bear Bryant coached and be one of many? I THINK Holgorsen is a different cat than Rich Rod, I don't THINK Holgorsen would leave just for a "higher prestige" job, for him it would have to make sense.

WMR
01-05-2012, 01:14 AM
Going to the Big 12 will help WVU keep a coach.

Lots of couches bidding their end tables and lamps farewell right about now.

KronoRed
01-05-2012, 01:15 AM
Does the ACC really deserve a BCS bid? they are now 2-13 in BCS bowl games.

WMR
01-05-2012, 01:17 AM
What's the Big East's record in BCS games without counting the teams that are departing?

KronoRed
01-05-2012, 01:19 AM
What's the Big East's record in BCS games without counting the teams that are departing?

1-3

Louisville (10)
Cincinnati (02)
Connecticut (01)

Homer Bailey
01-05-2012, 02:11 AM
Leave it to WVRed to try to bring down WVU fans on this night. :)

Boston Red
01-05-2012, 03:55 AM
1-3

Louisville (10)
Cincinnati (02)
Connecticut (01)

If you're going that route...3-3

Boise State (2-0)

Sea Ray
01-05-2012, 10:08 AM
Does the ACC really deserve a BCS bid? they are now 2-13 in BCS bowl games.

It does kinda take the heat off the Big East in regard to pulling their automatic BCS bid.

If they start pulling automatic BCS bids where does it stop? I don't think the NCAA wants to get into that. Unless they totally revamp the BCS (which they're clearly reluctant to do), The Big East's auto bid is safe and that means UC is OK staying put

IslandRed
01-05-2012, 11:20 AM
Miami appears to be a lost cause for awhile, so the ACC really needs Florida State to make it all the way back. FSU had major offensive line problems this year, so that needs to be fixed before they'll be a national contender again. On the other hand, they're the only ACC program that actually wins bowl games consistently.

On the conference as a whole, it's no secret most of the schools aren't hardcore football schools. But even with that, some of them should be better than they are. FSU's rebuilding is going well but they need to step up and win the league. Clemson has too much talent to get killed like they did last night. Virginia Tech really has a terrific team but seems to get a lump in its throat when on a national stage. There's more than enough talent in North Carolina for at least one of those schools to be really good. And the officiating in the league is not just bad, it's detrimental -- they seem to be on a crusade to create a brand of football that doesn't involve that neanderthal "hitting" thing, so lots of teams play soft. The defenses that are actually good anyway (VT and FSU) play non-league games like dogs who just escaped a choke collar.

WVRed
01-05-2012, 11:44 AM
Leave it to WVRed to try to bring down WVU fans on this night. :)

WVU....the school thats in Roanoke, right? :)

Homer Bailey
01-05-2012, 12:34 PM
WVU....the school thats in Roanoke, right? :)

It was. Now it can be located in the endzone. :beerme:

WVRed
01-05-2012, 12:39 PM
It was. Now it can be located in the endzone. :beerme:

For the record (and for anybody who doesn't know, I'm sure HB and Slyder do), this was in reference to Brad Nessler's comment during the Michigan game about the "other school from Virginia".

I'm not a WVU fan, but it is pretty irritating living in the state when people make these kinds of references, especially on national television. It makes me wonder why these people refer to West Virginians as uneducated hillbillies when they don't even know West Virginia is an actual state.

reds1869
01-05-2012, 02:15 PM
For the record (and for anybody who doesn't know, I'm sure HB and Slyder do), this was in reference to Brad Nessler's comment during the Michigan game about the "other school from Virginia".

I'm not a WVU fan, but it is pretty irritating living in the state when people make these kinds of references, especially on national television. It makes me wonder why these people refer to West Virginians as uneducated hillbillies when they don't even know West Virginia is an actual state.

My wife used to work with people that went to "Virginia" for the weekend. You know, to the Mountaineer Casino in Wheeling. :laugh:

I lived in West Virginia for the first 22 years of my life and used to get worked up about it when people didn't know we were a state. Now I just chalk it up as being a reflection of their poor knowledge of their own country and move on.

will5979
01-05-2012, 02:37 PM
For the record (and for anybody who doesn't know, I'm sure HB and Slyder do), this was in reference to Brad Nessler's comment during the Michigan game about the "other school from Virginia".

I'm not a WVU fan, but it is pretty irritating living in the state when people make these kinds of references, especially on national television. It makes me wonder why these people refer to West Virginians as uneducated hillbillies when they don't even know West Virginia is an actual state.

Or when people say we are ignorant for speaking in our Appalachian Dialect which is a continuation of the original English spoken by our British migrants of Appalachia! We are perserving our heritage by saying ain't, y'all, yonder, jeat yet, hered, yorn, Warshington, and far!

BuckeyeRed27
01-05-2012, 03:03 PM
So the Orange Bowl looks like it is going to be the lowest rated BCS bowl game ever. The Sugar Bowl, depsite being a pretty good game, also had pretty terrible ratings. It also looks like the average bowl attendance this year will be at a 30 year low. How much longer can bowls hang on?

HotCorner
01-05-2012, 04:23 PM
So the Orange Bowl looks like it is going to be the lowest rated BCS bowl game ever. The Sugar Bowl, depsite being a pretty good game, also had pretty terrible ratings. It also looks like the average bowl attendance this year will be at a 30 year low. How much longer can bowls hang on?

Make them part of a playoff and the ratings would jump drastically.

Roy Tucker
01-05-2012, 05:26 PM
So the Orange Bowl looks like it is going to be the lowest rated BCS bowl game ever. The Sugar Bowl, depsite being a pretty good game, also had pretty terrible ratings. It also looks like the average bowl attendance this year will be at a 30 year low. How much longer can bowls hang on?

I think the BCS has wrung every dollar they could out of the games by stringing them out the week after New Years. But now people don't seem to care as much. I know I have a hard time wresting the TV remote from my wife. The Rose Bowl on New Years Day, fine. But then Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday it starts getting a little silly. Even I get tired of the games.

Talking here at work today, us old folks were reminiscing about the bowl game marathons that used to be on New Years Day. The Sugar Bowl was played early afternoon, the Rose Bowl starting around 4-ish, and then the Orange Bowl (with a halftime extravaganza) at night. It was long but fun and then the holidays were over.

The BCS is a hokey tricked-up series with the advertised goal of getting the best games but what it really is is getting the most money. Get off my lawn.

UKFlounder
01-05-2012, 05:32 PM
What I remember is the Rose Bowl at 4:00 on ABC and then the Sugar Bowl later that night on ABC (8:00?) with the Orange Bowl on NBC (and Don Criqui broadcasting it every year.)

The Cotton Bowl and Fiesta Bowl were both in there somewhere as well, but the Rose, Sugar & Orange are what I remember (or think I remember)


I think the BCS has wrung every dollar they could out of the games by stringing them out the week after New Years. But now people don't seem to care as much. I know I have a hard time wresting the TV remote from my wife. The Rose Bowl on New Years Day, fine. But then Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday it starts getting a little silly. Even I get tired of the games.

Talking here at work today, us old folks were reminiscing about the bowl game marathons that used to be on New Years Day. The Sugar Bowl was played early afternoon, the Rose Bowl starting around 4-ish, and then the Orange Bowl (with a halftime extravaganza) at night. It was long but fun and then the holidays were over.

The BCS is a hokey tricked-up series with the advertised goal of getting the best games but what it really is is getting the most money. Get off my lawn.

Slyder
01-05-2012, 08:33 PM
So the Orange Bowl looks like it is going to be the lowest rated BCS bowl game ever. The Sugar Bowl, depsite being a pretty good game, also had pretty terrible ratings. It also looks like the average bowl attendance this year will be at a 30 year low. How much longer can bowls hang on?

As long as the current system is in place that the bowls screw over schools by forcing them to lose money on the trip (eating any unsold tickets) plus the corporate sponsorship money doesn't run dry? Quite a while.

BuckeyeRed27
01-05-2012, 08:37 PM
As long as the current system is in place that the bowls screw over schools by forcing them to lose money on the trip (eating any unsold tickets) plus the corporate sponsorship money doesn't run dry? Quite a while.

Corporate sponsonship money will start to run dry though, or at the very least go down. Sponsors aren't going to keep shelling out huge dollars if viewership decreases 37% year over year. This has been trending the wrong way now for the BCS bowls for the last few years. That along with the growing desire for a playoff system will eventually lead to some change.

KronoRed
01-05-2012, 10:47 PM
So the Orange Bowl looks like it is going to be the lowest rated BCS bowl game ever. The Sugar Bowl, depsite being a pretty good game, also had pretty terrible ratings. It also looks like the average bowl attendance this year will be at a 30 year low. How much longer can bowls hang on?

Bowl games on week days is the problem.

RBA
01-05-2012, 11:14 PM
I knew a few people were looking for the Rose Bowl. They were expecting it to be on ABC, cbs, nbc, or fox.

sent from HTC EVO

Chip R
01-06-2012, 10:05 AM
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2011-12-15/news/bcs-college-football-bowl-scam/

MWM
01-06-2012, 12:22 PM
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2011-12-15/news/bcs-college-football-bowl-scam/

Wow! Awesome piece of writing and research.

Roy Tucker
01-06-2012, 01:31 PM
Wow! Awesome piece of writing and research.

Yep. Pretty damning indictment of the bowl system and the BCS. I've read that Wetzel book and it is all pretty sickening.

Sea Ray
01-09-2012, 05:40 PM
I predict an SEC team will win the national championship tonight...:D

BuckeyeRed27
01-10-2012, 12:32 PM
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/01/alabama-lsu_produces_lowest_tv.html

Ratings make it the lowest rated championship game of all time and down about 14% from last year. It actually only got slightly better ratings than the first time they played.

dougdirt
01-10-2012, 12:34 PM
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/01/alabama-lsu_produces_lowest_tv.html

Ratings make it the lowest rated championship game of all time and down about 14% from last year. It actually only got slightly better ratings than the first time they played.

I am sure that it being on ESPN rather than broadcast TV had a little to do with that. Not everyone has cable, even today. You lose some casual viewers that way.

BuckeyeRed27
01-10-2012, 03:16 PM
I am sure that it being on ESPN rather than broadcast TV had a little to do with that. Not everyone has cable, even today. You lose some casual viewers that way.

The game was on ESPN last year too.