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WVRed
01-08-2012, 12:35 AM
I realize its January, but I'd say the first domino has fallen:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7435726/indianapolis-colts-draft-andrew-luck-stanford-cardinal-no-1-pick-sources-say

My wish list for the Bengals two picks:

1.Trent Richardson (by trade most likely)
2.David DeCastro (G-Stanford)
3.Lamar Miller (RB-Miami)
4.Alfonzo Dennard (CB-Nebraska)/Stephon Gilmore(CB-South Carolina)
5.Mark Barron (S-Alabama)

If LaMichael James is there in the second or third round, I would take a chance. If anything, hes a special teams threat and an upgrade to Bernard Scott.

RiverRat13
01-08-2012, 10:54 AM
I hope for DeCastro and one of the corners in the first round for the Bengals.

Tony Cloninger
01-08-2012, 11:25 AM
Sign a REAL FA Guard and not garbage. Then draft another one.

BTW....Mathis was rated as one of the top Guards with the Eagles...but since Livings played next to Whitworth for LSU, they for some reason feel he is better suited for the Bengals.

Mario-Rijo
01-08-2012, 11:30 AM
It's early yet but I like Barron, he's not as athletically dynamic as I'd like but he has something just as important, great instincts. If he is just solid athletically speaking (which I think he is) he's a big piece. And I think with he and Nelson back there along with Hall and re-sign Clements we will be more than adequate in the secondary starting wise. I'd also like a Corner but good safety's seem more difficult to find for whatever reason so I would consider waiting a round or 2 for a CB, a real burner.

Guess we will have to see if the Bengals have any luck in FA, I'd prefer a legit starting OG via FA maybe one of the Saints guys. But I personally do not have a problem with drafting one early but the Bengals still seem to prefer interior OL after the 1st round. For that matter Safety's aren't typical 1st rounders for them either but I'm thinking since Nelson has looked so much better maybe they give it a go with Barron who fits us maybe better than anyone else in the league and seems to fit the mold of the type of player they have gone after the past several years now.

I'd love to have Richardson but I don't relish paying top 10 money for a RB anymore. But I think I would for him, we need someone that dynamic with this offense and this mix of players.

FA should give us a better idea of where to go with these picks. But that list is a good start for us IMO.

Mario-Rijo
01-08-2012, 11:34 AM
Sign a REAL FA Guard and not garbage. Then draft another one.

BTW....Mathis was rated as one of the top Guards with the Eagles...but since Livings played next to Whitworth for LSU, they for some reason feel he is better suited for the Bengals.

Mathis was better when he was a Bengal even, never got that whole deal.

texasdave
01-10-2012, 10:54 AM
http://walterfootball.com/draftdata.php

223 mock drafts compiled at one site. Nice.

Benihana
01-10-2012, 03:18 PM
My FA targets would be as follows:
1. Carl Nicks OG
2. Ben Grubbs OG
3. LaRon Landry S
4. Peyton Hillis RB on a one-year deal only

Then depending on who what holes we were able to fill I'd target some combination of these guys in the first round:

1. David DeCastro OG
2. Dre Kirkpatrick CB
3. Mark Barron S
4. Michael Floyd WR
5. Trent Richardson RB

Justin Blackmon and Morris Claiborne would be my top choices, but they are likely to be long-gone by 17.

If we don't sign Landry or get Barron in the first round, we really need to get a S in Round 2. I don't want to see Chris Crocker in a Bengal uniform ever again.

HotCorner
01-10-2012, 03:50 PM
My FA targets would be as follows:
1. Carl Nicks OG
2. Ben Grubbs OG
3. LaRon Landry S
4. Peyton Hillis RB on a one-year deal only

Then depending on who what holes we were able to fill I'd target some combination of these guys in the first round:

1. David DeCastro OG
2. Dre Kirkpatrick CB
3. Mark Barron S
4. Michael Floyd WR
5. Trent Richardson RB

Justin Blackmon and Morris Claiborne would be my top choices, but they are likely to be long-gone by 17.

If we don't sign Landry or get Barron in the first round, we really need to get a S in Round 2. I don't want to see Chris Crocker in a Bengal uniform ever again.

Great minds ... ;)

http://redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2521872&postcount=905

Mario-Rijo
01-10-2012, 08:01 PM
My FA targets would be as follows:
1. Carl Nicks OG
2. Ben Grubbs OG
3. LaRon Landry S
4. Peyton Hillis RB on a one-year deal only

Then depending on who what holes we were able to fill I'd target some combination of these guys in the first round:

1. David DeCastro OG
2. Dre Kirkpatrick CB
3. Mark Barron S
4. Michael Floyd WR
5. Trent Richardson RB

Justin Blackmon and Morris Claiborne would be my top choices, but they are likely to be long-gone by 17.

If we don't sign Landry or get Barron in the first round, we really need to get a S in Round 2. I don't want to see Chris Crocker in a Bengal uniform ever again.

I'm with ya for the most part. Though I don't get the Hillis signing, we need a back with more big play ability IMO. Ray Rice & Matt Forte are the top 2 FA RB's though I suspect both are likely to stick with their teams but with Forte it's hard to say. How about a 1st round pick to Chicago for his rights? Also Arian Foster is a RFA but with Tates emergence and that offense's reputation for being RB friendly maybe he'd be available as well. If not I'd trade up to get Richardson. And if they use next years Raiders pick (or our own) then we can keep one of our picks this season also to fill another big need.

Sign Landry, Re-Sign Nelson (amongst others), sign either OG but I actually like Grubbs because we can take him from Baltimore who doesn't like paying interior OL big money either.

1A - Richardson RB Bama (say maybe the #9 pick Carolina who can drop and still have many valid options and could use an additional early pick next year)
1B - Decasto or Cordy Glenn with our selection in the 1st

2nd - CB
3A - LaMichael James
3B - OL (Yeah I think we will end up with a 3rd rounder for Joseph)
4th - FB
5th on depth.

Grubbs at LG & C. Glenn we'll say at RG completely re-invigorates the line and give us 2 very good maulers in the running game. With Richardson starting, Scott backing him up and James as a 3rd down Sproles type (ok not quite Sproles but speed/quickness wise he is on par).

izzy's dad
01-12-2012, 11:10 AM
Would anybody else be willing to trade up to get Trent Richardson? He is my first choice, but if landing him is not going to happen, then in the first round I would like to see a cornerback, and a guard/safety.

HotCorner
01-12-2012, 12:34 PM
Would anybody else be willing to trade up to get Trent Richardson? He is my first choice, but if landing him is not going to happen, then in the first round I would like to see a cornerback, and a guard/safety.

I believe it would be too costly (draft pick wise) to trade up for Richardson. A lot of quality RB's could be available (Miller, Wilson, Pierce) late 1st through 3rd rounds.

UKFlounder
01-12-2012, 12:59 PM
Richardson would be nice to have, but with so many needs, I don't like giving up picks. The Bengals could use help on OL (guard - at least one, perhaps a center also), RB, WR (besides Green - Simpson is a free agent & not very reliable, but may be back), LB (Lawson is a free agent & there are no real playmakers there), safety & cornerback.

I can't see them trading multiple picks for one player. They need to accumulate picks (and use them wisely of course.)

WMR
01-12-2012, 02:41 PM
I too would love to see the Bengals find a way to get Richardson.

I think he is going to be a great pro. Would be an awesome tool to keep pressure off our young QB.

WVRed
01-12-2012, 03:35 PM
Richardson would be nice to have, but with so many needs, I don't like giving up picks. The Bengals could use help on OL (guard - at least one, perhaps a center also), RB, WR (besides Green - Simpson is a free agent & not very reliable, but may be back), LB (Lawson is a free agent & there are no real playmakers there), safety & cornerback.

I can't see them trading multiple picks for one player. They need to accumulate picks (and use them wisely of course.)

If it costs the Bengals their two first rounders or a first and second this year to move up, then pass and take Lamar Miller or David Wilson later.

If it costs the Bengals the Oakland first rounder and a second round pick next year (the Bengals will have two), then by all means go for it. Use the second first round pick on Cordy Glenn or David DeCastro.

Ohayou
01-12-2012, 04:01 PM
DeCastro is a potential Top 10 pick. I'd be surprised if he fell that low.

Sea Ray
01-12-2012, 05:23 PM
DeCastro is a potential Top 10 pick. I'd be surprised if he fell that low.

It's pretty rare for guards to go that high

Mario-Rijo
01-12-2012, 05:37 PM
Somebody else I like for us is Donta Hightower and someone I think the Bengals will look at with pick #17. They hate taking OG's and Safeties in the 1st and they can take a CB with their 2nd 1st.

WVRed
01-12-2012, 05:56 PM
Somebody else I like for us is Donta Hightower and someone I think the Bengals will look at with pick #17. They hate taking OG's and Safeties in the 1st and they can take a CB with their 2nd 1st.

I like Hightower, but he is more of a MLB (Maualuga) and the Bengals need a pass rushing LB more than somebody to roam the middle. Sad part is, I see him being drafted by the Ravens as the heir apparent to Ray Lewis or even the Steelers.

Someone else I would consider at OLB if he fell low enough is Vontaze Burfict from Arizona State. A LB core of Burfict-Maualuga-Rivers would be pretty nice for years to come.

Ohayou
01-12-2012, 07:35 PM
It's pretty rare for guards to go that high

Maybe he isn't Top 10 worthy, but I doubt he falls all the way down to 21. He's one of the most highly touted interior linemen in a long time. A lot of the mocks I've seen have him going to the Panthers at 8 or 9.

Benihana
01-13-2012, 11:45 AM
I like Hightower, but he is more of a MLB (Maualuga) and the Bengals need a pass rushing LB more than somebody to roam the middle. Sad part is, I see him being drafted by the Ravens as the heir apparent to Ray Lewis or even the Steelers.

Someone else I would consider at OLB if he fell low enough is Vontaze Burfict from Arizona State. A LB core of Burfict-Maualuga-Rivers would be pretty nice for years to come.

I thought Burfict is more of an ILB as well? Either way I wouldn't bank much on the future of Keith Rivers. I wouldn't be surprised if he's not on the team by this time next year.

Also, Maulauga really needs to improve in my book. While I loved him in college, the jury is still out on him as a pro in my opinion.

Benihana
01-13-2012, 11:47 AM
If Claiborne, Kirkpatrick, and Barron are all off the board, Stephon Gilmore is a CB that reminds me a lot of Jonathan Joseph. I'd still prefer the three guys I mentioned (plus DeCastro, Richardson and Floyd) but he may be a guy to keep an eye on at 21.

I have zero interest in Nebraska CB Alfonzo Dennard.

Mario-Rijo
01-13-2012, 12:27 PM
I like Hightower, but he is more of a MLB (Maualuga) and the Bengals need a pass rushing LB more than somebody to roam the middle. Sad part is, I see him being drafted by the Ravens as the heir apparent to Ray Lewis or even the Steelers.

Someone else I would consider at OLB if he fell low enough is Vontaze Burfict from Arizona State. A LB core of Burfict-Maualuga-Rivers would be pretty nice for years to come.

Actually he is a very good pass rusher (Hightower) even though he is so big. Rey has been a solid pick but we need playmakers and let the best man win. Although I think Rey would stay on the field just fine with Donta outside.

bucksfan2
01-13-2012, 12:43 PM
Actually he is a very good pass rusher even though he is so big. Rey has been a solid pick but we need playmakers and let the best man win. Although I think Rey would stay on the field just fine with Donta outside.

Rey has been ok, a NFL starting caliber LB, but nothing spectacular. I think more than anything else the Bengals need a playmaker in their back 7.

I am curious towards the Alabama guys. Are they a combination of good players in a great system or individually great players?

Benihana
01-13-2012, 12:45 PM
While in years past, I admittedly frequently get enamored with certain players and want the Bengals to trade up to get them, I feel strongly that this is not the year for that. The Bengals are a couple of key players/positions away from being a real contender, and they need all of their top picks this year to address those needs, unless they plan on going all Reds-like via FA in the offseason.

They need to find a starter at S, CB, WR, both OG positions, and possibly a RB. It will take two first round picks, a second round pick, and at least one or two key FA signings to do all of that. So while I like Richardson, if he goes off the board before 17, so be it. We have other needs to address, and like I said earlier, I wouldn't mind signing Hillis to a one-year deal.

Benihana
01-13-2012, 12:51 PM
Rey has been ok, a NFL starting caliber LB, but nothing spectacular. I think more than anything else the Bengals need a playmaker in their back 7.

I am curious towards the Alabama guys. Are they a combination of good players in a great system or individually great players?

I would say Rey has been average at best, maybe even a little below. Can anyone say with confidence that he was noticeably better in the middle than Dhani Jones the year before?

Odell Thurman in his rookie year was significantly better than Rey was this year. You know, before the meth and all that...

bucksfan2
01-13-2012, 12:58 PM
I would say Rey has been average at best, maybe even a little below. Can anyone say with confidence that he was noticeably better in the middle than Dhani Jones the year before?

Odell Thurman in his rookie year was significantly better than Rey was this year. You know, before the meth and all that...

Pretty much spot on. I think Rey has been better than Dhani but that has more to do with the age difference of the two. I think Rey has the skills to get better but too many NFL players fall into that category.

Odell was a very good LB, especially when it came running sideline to sideline. What could have been.........

Tony Cloninger
01-13-2012, 03:01 PM
Re-Sign Reggie Nelson, Pat Sims, Either Howard or Lawson...and T Collins.

Say goodbye to Simpson and Caldwell....Benson.....Crocker....and all their Guards that are unsigned.

Look to sign a good Guard for one side and draft one in the 1st along with a Center in the 1st or 2nd. S and CB are next with RB and WR next after that.

8 picks in 5 rounds (Chad Johnson trade/ Joseph comp pick and Palmer trade)

This should bring them something for almost all needs.

Benihana
01-13-2012, 03:19 PM
Re-Sign Reggie Nelson, Pat Sims, Either Howard or Lawson...and T Collins.

Say goodbye to Simpson and Caldwell....Benson.....Crocker....and all their Guards that are unsigned.

Look to sign a good Guard for one side and draft one in the 1st along with a Center in the 1st or 2nd. S and CB are next with RB and WR next after that.

8 picks in 5 rounds (Chad Johnson trade/ Joseph comp pick and Palmer trade)

This should bring them something for almost all needs.

I like this plan with a couple quibbles:
1. I'd bring back BOTH Howard and Lawson. I liked what they brought more than Rivers, who could be their backup.
2. I wouldn't draft a center in the first two rounds. I agree that we should sign one OG in FA (either Nicks or Grubbs) and draft another, then I would use the other top two picks on a WR and a DB unless Richardson somehow fell to us.
3. Then I'd sign Michael Bush in Free Agency.

Danny Serafini
01-13-2012, 03:58 PM
Re-Sign Reggie Nelson, Pat Sims, Either Howard or Lawson...and T Collins.

Say goodbye to Simpson and Caldwell....Benson.....Crocker....and all their Guards that are unsigned.

Look to sign a good Guard for one side and draft one in the 1st along with a Center in the 1st or 2nd. S and CB are next with RB and WR next after that.

8 picks in 5 rounds (Chad Johnson trade/ Joseph comp pick and Palmer trade)

This should bring them something for almost all needs.

Two things: Howard signed a two year deal, so he's set, and there's no comp pick for Joseph, because the Bengals gained more in free agency than they lost.

Tony Cloninger
01-13-2012, 06:09 PM
Two things: Howard signed a two year deal, so he's set, and there's no comp pick for Joseph, because the Bengals gained more in free agency than they lost.

That's terrible. How do they figure they gained more?

Mario-Rijo
01-13-2012, 08:22 PM
Two things: Howard signed a two year deal, so he's set, and there's no comp pick for Joseph, because the Bengals gained more in free agency than they lost.

I don't think so. In terms of number of players sure we gained more overall but the formula isn't about quantity as much as it is about quality. I could be wrong about gaining a 3rd for him but I doubt it falls any further down than a 4th. Size of contract (both length and value), how well they played, postseason awards etc. go in to the formula. Nate Clements also doesn't count against the formula because he was cut by his former team. It's in essence Lawson & Rivers vs. Joseph and Evan Mathis and Mathis is roughly equal to those LB's in this equation. The very fact Howard got a 2 year deal and played fairly well may knock that 3rd to a 4th but I just can't see why it would drop lower.

MikeThierry
01-13-2012, 08:57 PM
Also, Maulauga really needs to improve in my book. While I loved him in college, the jury is still out on him as a pro in my opinion.

At the time, I was angry at the Rams for drafting James Laurinaitis over Maulauga but I am so glad they did now. Laurinaitis is one of the best MLB's in the game. If not for Patrick Willis, Laurinaitis would probably get a pro-bowl pick, even being on a putrid Rams team.

My question to Bengals fans is what is wrong with Maulauga? Why hasn't he taken it to the next step?

Mario-Rijo
01-13-2012, 09:07 PM
At the time, I was angry at the Rams for drafting James Laurinaitis over Maulauga but I am so glad they did now. Laurinaitis is one of the best MLB's in the game. If not for Patrick Willis, Laurinaitis would probably get a pro-bowl pick, even being on a putrid Rams team.

My question to Bengals fans is what is wrong with Maulauga? Why hasn't he taken it to the next step?

I was cool with either at the time but I guess I just really liked the fact he could be an impact type MLB who could be the face of our defense. Personally I think he is a solid guy but he isn't quite as athletic as I hoped which hurts him all the way around. His instincts are good but they also aren't quite as good as I hoped. He is solid but unspectacular, that's what I'd like to see at least in one of the LB's. I could live with him in the middle if we had someone really dynamic next to him on one side or the other.

MikeThierry
01-13-2012, 09:11 PM
I was cool with either at the time but I guess I just really liked the fact he could be an impact type MLB who could be the face of our defense. Personally I think he is a solid guy but he isn't quite as athletic as I hoped which hurts him all the way around. His instincts are good but they also aren't quite as good as I hoped. He is solid but unspectacular, that's what I'd like to see at least in one of the LB's. I could live with him in the middle if we had someone really dynamic next to him on one side or the other.

It's kind of interesting. There seems to be a lot of dynamic MLB's in the game but not a whole lot of outstanding OLB's in the league. Are we in a time where there is a talent drought in that position? I know from the Rams standpoint, they scoured all throughout the league to fill this position but it just seemed there was just a bunch of average guys out there.

Mario-Rijo
01-13-2012, 10:44 PM
It's kind of interesting. There seems to be a lot of dynamic MLB's in the game but not a whole lot of outstanding OLB's in the league. Are we in a time where there is a talent drought in that position? I know from the Rams standpoint, they scoured all throughout the league to fill this position but it just seemed there was just a bunch of average guys out there.

Might have something to do with the fact you have the 3-4 and cover 2 defenses in so many places. Along with the 4-3 that is 3 really different types of OLB. Which is part of the reason I like Hightower, he can play in a 34 or 43 and I think he is plenty athletic enough and strong enough to play anywhere in either of those 2 defenses and frankly he could play in a cover but most likely as a MLB in that only (Urlacher-esque). He could be a real difference maker at LB at 6'4 260 Lbs and can run very well. He's darn near a 4-3 DE.

Danny Serafini
01-13-2012, 10:53 PM
I don't think so. In terms of number of players sure we gained more overall but the formula isn't about quantity as much as it is about quality. I could be wrong about gaining a 3rd for him but I doubt it falls any further down than a 4th. Size of contract (both length and value), how well they played, postseason awards etc. go in to the formula. Nate Clements also doesn't count against the formula because he was cut by his former team. It's in essence Lawson & Rivers vs. Joseph and Evan Mathis and Mathis is roughly equal to those LB's in this equation. The very fact Howard got a 2 year deal and played fairly well may knock that 3rd to a 4th but I just can't see why it would drop lower.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120107/SPT02/301070084/Newton-likely-rookie-favorite

The number of players is the key. Here's the key part of the story:

Since cornerback Johnathan Joseph signed with the Texans in late July, many have been wondering if the Bengals will receive a compensatory pick when those are announced at the league meetings in March. In light of the rules and one similar case, the Bengals arenít counting on one.

Compensatory picks are doled out through a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors, but the key ingredient is there has to be a net loss of unrestricted free agents, which the Bengals did not have. The Bengals lost Joseph, offensive guard Evan Mathis and tackle Kirk Chambers. They signed linebackers Thomas Howard and Manny Lawson, quarterback Bruce Gradkowski and tight end Bo Scaife.

WVRed
01-13-2012, 11:48 PM
At the time, I was angry at the Rams for drafting James Laurinaitis over Maulauga but I am so glad they did now. Laurinaitis is one of the best MLB's in the game. If not for Patrick Willis, Laurinaitis would probably get a pro-bowl pick, even being on a putrid Rams team.

My question to Bengals fans is what is wrong with Maulauga? Why hasn't he taken it to the next step?

I've noticed something with USC players during the Pete Carroll era in that their MLB and safeties are "heavy hitters" who have no clue what to do in coverage. Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews are pass rushers who have done well in the NFL, but it seems Rey and Taylor Mays haven't made the transition to the NFL.

At one point Maualuga was in discussion to be a mid first round pick. His stock slipped I think based on that reason. Bengal fans (including myself) thought we had the second coming of Ray Lewis, only to realize the significant deficiencies in his game.

WVRed
01-13-2012, 11:52 PM
It's kind of interesting. There seems to be a lot of dynamic MLB's in the game but not a whole lot of outstanding OLB's in the league. Are we in a time where there is a talent drought in that position? I know from the Rams standpoint, they scoured all throughout the league to fill this position but it just seemed there was just a bunch of average guys out there.

OLB's (especially hybrid DE-OLB) have such a high bust rate it's not even funny. You really don't even see the contending teams who need them draft them.

Vernon Gholston is likely the most recent that comes to mind for me. I know there's others.

MikeThierry
01-14-2012, 12:30 AM
I've noticed something with USC players during the Pete Carroll era in that their MLB and safeties are "heavy hitters" who have no clue what to do in coverage. Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews are pass rushers who have done well in the NFL, but it seems Rey and Taylor Mays haven't made the transition to the NFL.

At one point Maualuga was in discussion to be a mid first round pick. His stock slipped I think based on that reason. Bengal fans (including myself) thought we had the second coming of Ray Lewis, only to realize the significant deficiencies in his game.

Good point about the heavy hitter aspect of USC players. Laurinaitis doesn't make the highlight reel tackles but very rarely misses tackles and is one of the best cover MLB's in the game. I think what scared the Rams away from Maualuga was some off the field stuff but also his intelligence as far as football is concerned. Laurinaitis was off the chart when it came to football smarts.

Tony Cloninger
01-14-2012, 07:33 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120107/SPT02/301070084/Newton-likely-rookie-favorite

The number of players is the key. Here's the key part of the story:

Since cornerback Johnathan Joseph signed with the Texans in late July, many have been wondering if the Bengals will receive a compensatory pick when those are announced at the league meetings in March. In light of the rules and one similar case, the Bengals arenít counting on one.

Compensatory picks are doled out through a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors, but the key ingredient is there has to be a net loss of unrestricted free agents, which the Bengals did not have. The Bengals lost Joseph, offensive guard Evan Mathis and tackle Kirk Chambers. They signed linebackers Thomas Howard and Manny Lawson, quarterback Bruce Gradkowski and tight end Bo Scaife.


Pathetic. I mean really.....you lose Jospeh who is basically an All Pro. Mathis who was graded one of the top Guards in the NFL.....and beacuse the Bengals sign 2 boderline starters and 2 backups who hardly play.... since they equal 4 and Bengals only lose 3...you get no comp pick?

Forget U NFL.

Revering4Blue
01-18-2012, 04:12 PM
FWIW, Mel Kiper Jr. projects the Bengals to draft Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska at #17 and Lamar Miller, RB, Miami (Fla.) at #21.

WVRed
01-18-2012, 11:10 PM
I'm starting to wonder if Dre Kirkpatrick will fall given his arrest for possession.

If that happens, im thinking its between him and Janoris Jenkins for the first CB pick.

Cordy Glenn will be the second pick IMO. Marvin has shown that he loves players from Georgia for some reason:

David Pollack
Odell Thurman
Clint Boling
Geno Atkins
AJ Green

izzy's dad
01-19-2012, 02:20 PM
FWIW, Mel Kiper Jr. projects the Bengals to draft Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska at #17 and Lamar Miller, RB, Miami (Fla.) at #21.

I hope he is wrong. I would rather have Stephon Gilmore than Alfonzo Dennard. My first round targets are Mark Barron and Cordy Glenn and pray to God that Gilmore falls to the second round.

Caveat Emperor
01-19-2012, 03:14 PM
Would anybody else be willing to trade up to get Trent Richardson? He is my first choice, but if landing him is not going to happen, then in the first round I would like to see a cornerback, and a guard/safety.

No offense, but I wouldn't draft Trent Richardson with any pick in the first OR second round. The modern NFL is a pass-first league, and it's simply a waste of your time to draft running backs with high-round picks.

Scout the college landscape and find a back that can catch out of the backfield and carry the ball 10-12 times per game and you'll be fine. Workhorse backs are dinosaurs rapidly going extinct.

izzy's dad
01-19-2012, 03:35 PM
No offense, but I wouldn't draft Trent Richardson with any pick in the first OR second round. The modern NFL is a pass-first league, and it's simply a waste of your time to draft running backs with high-round picks.

Scout the college landscape and find a back that can catch out of the backfield and carry the ball 10-12 times per game and you'll be fine. Workhorse backs are dinosaurs rapidly going extinct.

I agree, I wrote that post about a month ago I think. I have slowly come to the realization that the NFL has changed. Almost any decent back can have success with a good offensive line and a passing game to lift the safetys out of the box. It is clear to me now that the offensive line, and secondary should be priority in this draft. It is hard for me to imagine an NFL without the 20-30 carry Emmit Smith type backs.

Todd Gack
01-20-2012, 09:04 AM
At the time, I was angry at the Rams for drafting James Laurinaitis over Maulauga but I am so glad they did now. Laurinaitis is one of the best MLB's in the game. If not for Patrick Willis, Laurinaitis would probably get a pro-bowl pick, even being on a putrid Rams team.

My question to Bengals fans is what is wrong with Maulauga? Why hasn't he taken it to the next step?

There's a reason a projected Top 10-15 pick fell to the 2nd round. He can only play on the field 2/3 of the downs. Oh, and he's a drunk.

Todd Gack
01-20-2012, 09:07 AM
FWIW, Mel Kiper Jr. projects the Bengals to draft Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska at #17 and Lamar Miller, RB, Miami (Fla.) at #21.

BTW, Dennard was absolutely torched by Alshon Jeffery in the bowl game. That's what lead to both guys being ejected.

Also, Lamar Miller looks nice, but he is soooooo soft. And by soft, I mean he's constantly injured. He's not a bruising back and this was his first year as the feature back and there were multiple games where he went out with an injury.

I'm not saying he can't be good, but there is definitely some risk with him and he's not a 1st/2nd round back in my opinion.

bucksfan2
01-20-2012, 09:12 AM
There's a reason a projected Top 10-15 pick fell to the 2nd round. He can only play on the field 2/3 of the downs. Oh, and he's a drunk.

You talking about James Laurinaitis?

Tuff Nut
01-21-2012, 10:42 AM
I've seen a mock where my team, KC, would be picking Richardson, at 11. Intriging but if you look at the top 6-7 RBs in the league, none of them were drafted in the 1st round, and 1 went undrafted, so better than average RBs, can be had later. I would love to see the Chiefs grab Hightower. 11 may be too high, but for a DROY contender, I'd sure take him.

izzy's dad
01-28-2012, 11:52 AM
Most of the mock draft updates I have seen this week have us taking Dre Kirkpatrick cb/Alabama at #17, and Lamar Miller rb/Miami at #21. Most are thinking that Kirkpatrick will fall to the Bengals at #17 because of his recent marijuana arrest. If he does indeed fall to Cinci at #17 I will be thrilled. I don't like the Lamar Miller pick, I would rather go offensive line or Mark Barron if he is still available. David Wilson is going mid to late 2nd round in most mocks, I would be more comfortable with him in the second. A couple of mocks I have seen lately have the Bengals selecting Michael Floyd wr/Notre Dame with the #17 pick. I think this is an interesting idea. The idea of having Floyd and Green is very tempting. Giving Dalton another weapon is great, but I think giving him better protection and a steadier ground game is more important. But, with Simpson being a free agent, and not likely to return I would think that receiver would need to be addressed either in the draft or via free agency. In a perfect world David Decastro and Dre Kirkpatrick land in our laps.

bucksfan2
01-28-2012, 12:32 PM
I've seen a mock where my team, KC, would be picking Richardson, at 11. Intriging but if you look at the top 6-7 RBs in the league, none of them were drafted in the 1st round, and 1 went undrafted, so better than average RBs, can be had later. I would love to see the Chiefs grab Hightower. 11 may be too high, but for a DROY contender, I'd sure take him.

Peterson, Forte, Chris Johnson all were drafted in the first round and I would imagine would be considered in the top 6-7 RB's in the NFL. You can include McFadden as well who was playing very well until he got hurt this year.

I agree that there is value to be had late in the draft when talking about RB. But to say that the top 6-7 weren't drafted in the first round is wrong.

Stray
01-28-2012, 08:04 PM
Isaiah Pead played a heck of a Senior Bowl. I've said it a lot, but I really hope the Bengals find a way to get him.

Edit: He just won the MVP of the Senior Bowl.

Mario-Rijo
01-28-2012, 10:47 PM
No offense, but I wouldn't draft Trent Richardson with any pick in the first OR second round. The modern NFL is a pass-first league, and it's simply a waste of your time to draft running backs with high-round picks.

Scout the college landscape and find a back that can catch out of the backfield and carry the ball 10-12 times per game and you'll be fine. Workhorse backs are dinosaurs rapidly going extinct.

Tell that to Detroit and GB. Heck tell it to Dallas who was much better with an effective RB on the field. An effective RB is a must whether you pass it alot or not. So if you can get one you get one. How many touches are the playoff teams RB's getting these days? Not less, maybe more diverse in the way they get it though. And Richardson is a guy who can be like a Rice or Foster and such. I like Dalton but I'd feel much better about his ability to consistently lead the Bengals down the field to score if he had a guy in the backfield that teams were wary of.

WVRed
01-29-2012, 01:33 AM
Tell that to Detroit and GB. Heck tell it to Dallas who was much better with an effective RB on the field. An effective RB is a must whether you pass it alot or not. So if you can get one you get one. How many touches are the playoff teams RB's getting these days? Not less, maybe more diverse in the way they get it though. And Richardson is a guy who can be like a Rice or Foster and such. I like Dalton but I'd feel much better about his ability to consistently lead the Bengals down the field to score if he had a guy in the backfield that teams were wary of.

Funny you mention Ray Rice and Arian Foster. Rice was a second round pick and Foster went undrafted.

The Patriots, Saints, and Packers are really the only playoff teams that don't rely on a running game, and two of those are out of the playoffs.

RB is a high paid-high risk position in the first round. You're committing a TON of money to a guy who the odds are stacked against immediately. I'd rather use the money on the best players available in the first and take a RB in the second or third rounds.

My pick= LaMichael James. A scatback, but is a pass catching threat out of the backfield and would be a dynamic return guy.

Slyder
01-29-2012, 01:48 AM
Don't have a link but there is a rumor that Pittsburgh is going to offer a position to former WVU HC Bill Stewart. Like I said I don't have a link or know what he's being looked at but if he's an OC potential then all I have to say is...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

and be prepaired to MATCH THE MOUNTAINS!!!

Please ask him about KICKOFFS!!!!

Mario-Rijo
01-29-2012, 10:00 AM
Funny you mention Ray Rice and Arian Foster. Rice was a second round pick and Foster went undrafted.

The Patriots, Saints, and Packers are really the only playoff teams that don't rely on a running game, and two of those are out of the playoffs.

RB is a high paid-high risk position in the first round. You're committing a TON of money to a guy who the odds are stacked against immediately. I'd rather use the money on the best players available in the first and take a RB in the second or third rounds.

My pick= LaMichael James. A scatback, but is a pass catching threat out of the backfield and would be a dynamic return guy.

If Richardson falls to us he is by far the best player available. I get the whole argument against them but if he is there I'm taking him especially when I have 2 1st round picks. James is a guy I would consider later on as well along with a guy like Chris Rainey as 3rd down backs. If you can convince me Miller/Polk or one of these other guys will be nearly as good as Richardson well then I'm all for it but I don't see it in this particular case.

Until I know Dalton is the 2nd coming of Drew Brees and the rest of the offense is capable of that type of explosion then I want a dynamic stud in the backfield. Sure offenses can work just fine without a stud back but can ours? Maybe isn't good enough for me to pass right now. Not to mention I am a proponent of running the ball and controlling the clock which is the most cost effective way to win ball games. I don't believe this has went out of style it's just not the flavor of the month.

Tuff Nut
01-29-2012, 01:58 PM
Peterson, Forte, Chris Johnson all were drafted in the first round and I would imagine would be considered in the top 6-7 RB's in the NFL. You can include McFadden as well who was playing very well until he got hurt this year.

I agree that there is value to be had late in the draft when talking about RB. But to say that the top 6-7 weren't drafted in the first round is wrong.
I guess I should have included the phrase "this season"...my bad. I would agree AP, CJ, and the others are top RBs.

WVRed
01-30-2012, 12:00 AM
Peterson, Forte, Chris Johnson all were drafted in the first round and I would imagine would be considered in the top 6-7 RB's in the NFL. You can include McFadden as well who was playing very well until he got hurt this year.

I agree that there is value to be had late in the draft when talking about RB. But to say that the top 6-7 weren't drafted in the first round is wrong.

Just to put this to bed (this past season):

AFC North:
Buffalo: Fred Jackson(undrafted)
Miami: Reggie Bush(2nd overall pick, largely considered a bust, Saints gave up on him)
New England: Benjarvus Green-Ellis(undrafted)
New York: Shonn Greene (3rd round)

AFC North:
Baltimore: Ray Rice(2nd round)
Cincinnati: Cedric Benson(4th overall pick by the Bears. Numerous problems in Chicago, turned it around in Cincinnati)
Cleveland: Peyton Hillis(7th round, drafted as a FB by Denver)
Pittsburgh: Rashard Mendenhall(late 1st round pick)

AFC South:
Houston: Arian Foster(undrafted)
Indianapolis: Joseph Addai (late first round, been very injury prone)
Jacksonville: Maurice Jones-Drew (2nd round)
Tennessee: Chris Johnson (late first round)

AFC West:
Denver: Knowshon Moreno (12th overall pick, passed by Willis McGahee)
KC: Jamaal Charles (3rd round)
Oakland: Darren McFadden (4th overall pick, inconsistent and injury prone)
San Diego: Ryan Matthews (12th overall pick, turning heads in second year)

NFC East:
Dallas: DeMarco Murray (3rd round)
NY Giants: Ahmad Bradshaw (7th round)
Philadelphia: LeSean McCoy (2nd round)
Washington: Tim Hightower (5th round)

NFC North:
Chicago: Matt Forte (2nd round)
Detroit: Jahvid Best (late 1st round, injury prone)
Green Bay: Ryan Grant (undrafted)
Minnesota: Adrian Peterson (7th overall)

NFC South:
Atlanta: Michael Turner (5th round)
Carolina: DeAngelo Williams (27th overall), Jonathan Stewart (13th overall)
New Orleans: Pierre Thomas (undrafted), also Mark Ingram (late first round)
Tampa Bay: LeGarrette Blount (undrafted)

NFC West:
Arizona: Beanie Wells (late 1st round)
San Fran: Frank Gore (3rd round)
Seattle: Marshawn Lynch (12th overall pick, on second team)
St Louis: Steven Jackson (late 1st round)

Out of this list:

15 first rounders, 8 of which were taken late in the first round.
4 second rounders
4 third rounders
0 4th rounders
2 5th rounders
0 6th rounders
2 7th rounders
6 undrafted

bucksfan2
01-30-2012, 09:21 AM
15 first rounders, 8 of which were taken late in the first round.
4 second rounders
4 third rounders
0 4th rounders
2 5th rounders
0 6th rounders
2 7th rounders
6 undrafted

Nice work.

I don't think RB is the type of position you want to use a top draft pick on. I do agree that you can find value late in the draft at RB. But I also think that many of the impact backs have come early and often in the draft. IMO the only true difference maker who went undrafted was Arian Foster. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't James Harrison go undrafted at LB? Undrafted stars happen in the NFL. With the excpetion of possibly QB you can find these undrafted stars littered all over the NFL.

The Bengals have had Rudi and Benson as their last two backs. Both were nice players but hardly guys who you would consider game breakers. You throw a game breaking back in the Bengals offense and they are much more dangerous.

Puffy
01-30-2012, 12:25 PM
No offense, but I wouldn't draft Trent Richardson with any pick in the first OR second round. The modern NFL is a pass-first league, and it's simply a waste of your time to draft running backs with high-round picks.

Scout the college landscape and find a back that can catch out of the backfield and carry the ball 10-12 times per game and you'll be fine. Workhorse backs are dinosaurs rapidly going extinct.

I disagree.

It all depends on needs. I have seen Richardson to the Chiefs and in that instance I agree with you. They have Charles and even though they love the two back system wasting a first round pick on a 15-17 touch per game person does not seem like good business when you can get a good running back later.

But if you are a team with no back then I can see taking Richardson in first round. Especially if you think he is Peterson/Jones-Drew good.

Everything is needs. I hear the same argument about "Never take a safety with a high pick." Well, if you need a safety and feel one guy is head and shoulders above every other safety prospect then take him. Great players are great players. If you have a chance to take one you take him and sort out everything else later, IMO.

Mario-Rijo
01-30-2012, 11:58 PM
I disagree.

It all depends on needs. I have seen Richardson to the Chiefs and in that instance I agree with you. They have Charles and even though they love the two back system wasting a first round pick on a 15-17 touch per game person does not seem like good business when you can get a good running back later.

But if you are a team with no back then I can see taking Richardson in first round. Especially if you think he is Peterson/Jones-Drew good.

Everything is needs. I hear the same argument about "Never take a safety with a high pick." Well, if you need a safety and feel one guy is head and shoulders above every other safety prospect then take him. Great players are great players. If you have a chance to take one you take him and sort out everything else later, IMO.

:thumbup:

WebScorpion
02-10-2012, 07:25 AM
I disagree.

It all depends on needs. I have seen Richardson to the Chiefs and in that instance I agree with you. They have Charles and even though they love the two back system wasting a first round pick on a 15-17 touch per game person does not seem like good business when you can get a good running back later.

But if you are a team with no back then I can see taking Richardson in first round. Especially if you think he is Peterson/Jones-Drew good.

Everything is needs. I hear the same argument about "Never take a safety with a high pick." Well, if you need a safety and feel one guy is head and shoulders above every other safety prospect then take him. Great players are great players. If you have a chance to take one you take him and sort out everything else later, IMO.
I agree with this and I think Richardson is going to be an Adrian Peterson kind of game changer. I also think he's head and shoulders above the rest of the choices this year, so if he's there at #17 we should take him.
That said, I think the Bengals have more room under the cap than any team in the NFL this year so I'm hoping we make a splash in the Free Agent market. I'm hoping they sign a Michael Bush or Matt Forte making the whole Trent Richardson debate moot for us. :thumbup:

Mario-Rijo
02-10-2012, 09:36 AM
I agree with this and I think Richardson is going to be an Adrian Peterson kind of game changer. I also think he's head and shoulders above the rest of the choices this year, so if he's there at #17 we should take him.
That said, I think the Bengals have more room under the cap than any team in the NFL this year so I'm hoping we make a splash in the Free Agent market. I'm hoping they sign a Michael Bush or Matt Forte making the whole Trent Richardson debate moot for us. :thumbup:

Bush isn't an upgrade to Benson but I agree with your hopes on being a player in the FA market especially Forte UFA, you can also include R. Rice UFA and A. Foster RFA. Not convinced Rice will be available but it's possible (though perhaps not probable) the other 2 could be had.

As far as Richardson goes I have come to the conclusion I wouldn't trade up very far for him like I would have a month ago, to much uncertainty about whether or not he can carry the load. He never had to in college and he had some pretty serious ankle injuries in HS from what I've heard. But I would trade up as far as I could without giving up more than a 5th round pick (perhaps a 4th). I think there is a possibility the Jets would take the plunge in front of us if Richardson fell there.

texasdave
02-15-2012, 09:46 PM
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/2/13/2796226/latest-cap-numbers-bengals-have-second-most-cap-space-behind-chiefs

izzy's dad
02-16-2012, 09:24 AM
I watched some sort of skills competition for some of the players that wanted to improve their draft stock yesterday on ESPN 2. It was pretty worthless except for the hands competition. Mohammed Sanu, Michael Flloyd, and Devier Posey were the recievers that took part, and Posey blew both of them away. He has decent size at 6' 2'', great speed, and excellent hands. The best part is even if he has a good combine he grades out around the fourth round. I would love for the Bengals to go after Posey. The Bengals need a #2 reciever, and I think he could be that guy. He is a local guy, and I think that could be a minor draw for fans. What do you guys think?

Hoosier Red
02-16-2012, 09:32 AM
I watched some sort of skills competition for some of the players that wanted to improve their draft stock yesterday on ESPN 2. It was pretty worthless except for the hands competition. Mohammed Sanu, Michael Flloyd, and Devier Posey were the recievers that took part, and Posey blew both of them away. He has decent size at 6' 2'', great speed, and excellent hands. The best part is even if he has a good combine he grades out around the fourth round. I would love for the Bengals to go after Posey. The Bengals need a #2 reciever, and I think he could be that guy. He is a local guy, and I think that could be a minor draw for fans. What do you guys think?

I think they struck Gold with AJ Green last year, but it seems hard to project getting another WR who has a big impact as a rookie. I'd think if they're going to go to FA for any position, WR would seem to be a fit. Maybe get Reggie Wayne if the Colts don't re-sign him.

bucksfan2
02-16-2012, 09:42 AM
I think they struck Gold with AJ Green last year, but it seems hard to project getting another WR who has a big impact as a rookie. I'd think if they're going to go to FA for any position, WR would seem to be a fit. Maybe get Reggie Wayne if the Colts don't re-sign him.

I think WR is a need after RB, OL, DB and LB. The only two really pressing needs are corner backs and a guard. I think they could use help at safety and also could use help in the linebacking corps. That said I do think if they see good value at WR they will jump at it. Last season they may have had the worst #2 wideout in the league (sans maybe the 49ers).

Hoosier Red
02-16-2012, 09:53 AM
I think WR is a need after RB, OL, DB and LB. The only two really pressing needs are corner backs and a guard. I think they could use help at safety and also could use help in the linebacking corps. That said I do think if they see good value at WR they will jump at it. Last season they may have had the worst #2 wideout in the league (sans maybe the 49ers).

A very good point. It's a balancing act between need and the ability for a FA to make an instant impact. WR isn't as high of a need, but it seems like there are a number of guys who can come in and be productive from day one.

I'd also like to sign a FA guard simply because it seems like there aren't a lot of interior lineman who play at a high level as rookies.

izzy's dad
02-16-2012, 12:03 PM
I am curious to see what direction the Bengals will go in regards to the draft this year. Will they fill some of their major needs via free agency and use the draft to fill other needs and take the best player available, or will they fill major needs with the draft and supplement the roster with free agents? If they use some of that cap space on a Carl Nicks type guy, that changes how they will draft. Either way I am super excited. The combine should be interesting.

bucksfan2
02-16-2012, 12:17 PM
A very good point. It's a balancing act between need and the ability for a FA to make an instant impact. WR isn't as high of a need, but it seems like there are a number of guys who can come in and be productive from day one.

I'd also like to sign a FA guard simply because it seems like there aren't a lot of interior lineman who play at a high level as rookies.

It is a balancing act. I think that the vast majority of free agents don't help nearly as much as teams have hoped. You can look at some of the marquee signings of the past and see that their impact isn't nearly as high as hoped.

Its a must to sure up the defensive backfield as well as the offensive line. Once they do that I think they will look to the best player available. If you have someone rated high and he slips it doesn't make sense to pass on him because it isn't necessarily a position of need. Look at the Pats draft of a few years ago, they selected two TE's in the 3rd round. Looked odd at the time but both are a major cog to their offense.

sonny
02-16-2012, 01:02 PM
I watched some sort of skills competition for some of the players that wanted to improve their draft stock yesterday on ESPN 2. It was pretty worthless except for the hands competition. Mohammed Sanu, Michael Flloyd, and Devier Posey were the recievers that took part, and Posey blew both of them away. He has decent size at 6' 2'', great speed, and excellent hands. The best part is even if he has a good combine he grades out around the fourth round. I would love for the Bengals to go after Posey. The Bengals need a #2 reciever, and I think he could be that guy. He is a local guy, and I think that could be a minor draw for fans. What do you guys think?

I stay away from Posey. He has a history of bad decision making off the field. I would keep that kind of stigma far away from the Bengals.

I realize AJ has had similar issues, but he never took money WHILE an investigation of the athletic dept was going on. Avoid this knucklehead.

Mario-Rijo
02-18-2012, 10:17 AM
I watched some sort of skills competition for some of the players that wanted to improve their draft stock yesterday on ESPN 2. It was pretty worthless except for the hands competition. Mohammed Sanu, Michael Floyd, and Devier Posey were the recievers that took part, and Posey blew both of them away. He has decent size at 6' 2'', great speed, and excellent hands. The best part is even if he has a good combine he grades out around the fourth round. I would love for the Bengals to go after Posey. The Bengals need a #2 reciever, and I think he could be that guy. He is a local guy, and I think that could be a minor draw for fans. What do you guys think?

Posey, great speed? I don't see that, maybe 4.48 to 4.52ish which is fine but nothing to rave about. I'm not sure someone who made the decisions he made would be considered a positive in terms of a bump in attendance either. He was a nice WR at OSU but not so much so that people are gonna go out of their way to see him. I wouldn't hate him being drafted in the 4th but I'd think/hope we could do better there in the draft and at the position in general. If they are in the market for a #2 come draft time (I doubt it I think Simpson will get re-signed or Manningham will be the guy) I suspect you would see someone drafted much sooner, no later than the 2nd but most likely with their 2nd 1st (Floyd or Wright would likely be a target then IMO).

Posey would be a good candidate to replace Caldwell who unless he takes a miniscule contract is probably going bye-bye.

Mario-Rijo
02-18-2012, 10:36 AM
I think WR is a need after RB, OL, DB and LB. The only two really pressing needs are corner backs and a guard. I think they could use help at safety and also could use help in the linebacking corps. That said I do think if they see good value at WR they will jump at it. Last season they may have had the worst #2 wideout in the league (sans maybe the 49ers).

I think that is an example of not seeing what is really out there on other teams. I'd take Simpson even over some # 1's let alone #2's.

Cleveland, S.F., Rams, Seattle, T.B., Chicago, Minny, Jax, Titans, Denver, Oakland all had no one clearly better than Simpson on their roster last season (Maybe Britt but he was injured). And there are a few more teams than that who would have possibly seen Jerome start for them (Washington for example) as at least a #2 if not better. Grass isn't always greener just because yours is clearly not green enough. Simpson still has things he needs to work on but his talent is up there.

izzy's dad
02-18-2012, 02:16 PM
Posey, great speed? I don't see that, maybe 4.48 to 4.52ish which is fine but nothing to rave about. I'm not sure someone who made the decisions he made would be considered a positive in terms of a bump in attendance either. He was a nice WR at OSU but not so much so that people are gonna go out of their way to see him. I wouldn't hate him being drafted in the 4th but I'd think/hope we could do better there in the draft and at the position in general. If they are in the market for a #2 come draft time (I doubt it I think Simpson will get re-signed or Manningham will be the guy) I suspect you would see someone drafted much sooner, no later than the 2nd but most likely with their 2nd 1st (Floyd or Wright would likely be a target then IMO).

Posey would be a good candidate to replace Caldwell who unless he takes a miniscule contract is probably going bye-bye.

Floyd carries more baggage than Posey. He may not be a burner, but Posey is faster than most of the recievers projected to go in the first or second rounds IE: Sanu, Jeffrey, Blackmon. I am not saying he is a guy that should be drafted in the first three rounds, but he is worth a look if he gets to round four or beyond. I think he can develop into a decent #2, but that would be his peak in my opinion. I still think having local guys can be a minor draw for some fans, but that is just my opinion. Of course all of this could be pointless depending on what they do in free agency.

izzy's dad
02-18-2012, 03:43 PM
... I just did some research and I from what it looks like most of the recievers in this years draft are not your typical 4.3-4.4 guys. I was wrong when I said that Posey is faster than all of those guys. He is right around a 4.5 along with Blackmon, Jeffery, Floyd, and Sanu. Wright has those guys beat by a mile, he seems to be the only WR capable of running a 4.3 this year. All of this of course could go right out the window next week at the combine. So I will eat my serving of crow, but I still think around the 4-5 round range is where Posey should go.

EDIT: In my defense Posey did look a lot more agile than the other two guys (Floyd, Sanu), but that was in shorts and a t shirt. Also, he appeared to be in much better shape than Floyd and Sanu.

Mario-Rijo
02-18-2012, 04:35 PM
Floyd carries more baggage than Posey. He may not be a burner, but Posey is faster than most of the recievers projected to go in the first or second rounds IE: Sanu, Jeffrey, Blackmon. I am not saying he is a guy that should be drafted in the first three rounds, but he is worth a look if he gets to round four or beyond. I think he can develop into a decent #2, but that would be his peak in my opinion. I still think having local guys can be a minor draw for some fans, but that is just my opinion. Of course all of this could be pointless depending on what they do in free agency.



... I just did some research and I from what it looks like most of the recievers in this years draft are not your typical 4.3-4.4 guys. I was wrong when I said that Posey is faster than all of those guys. He is right around a 4.5 along with Blackmon, Jeffery, Floyd, and Sanu. Wright has those guys beat by a mile, he seems to be the only WR capable of running a 4.3 this year. All of this of course could go right out the window next week at the combine. So I will eat my serving of crow, but I still think around the 4-5 round range is where Posey should go.

EDIT: In my defense Posey did look a lot more agile than the other two guys (Floyd, Sanu), but that was in shorts and a t shirt. Also, he appeared to be in much better shape than Floyd and Sanu.

I don't think you are wrong in suggesting Posey is faster than alot of those other guys, I am pretty confident he is. He has average NFL WR speed those others you mentioned are a tick or in some cases 2 ticks below that. Floyd seems like about a 4.55 type and Jeffery and Sanu seem closer to 4.60 in my estimation. And Posey is definitely more agile and quick IMO. Posey will likely be a better value I think than at least those latter 2 if not all 3. I suspect it'll be Blackmon, Wright, Floyd in the early then mid, then late 1st round (probably in that order). And those other 3 in the mid to late 2nd early 3rd but depending on needs could fall further. Sanu & Jeffrey had better seasons and seemingly have better publicists than Posey. Posey's weakness is that he doesn't really stand out that much in any regard, he's solid but unspectacular pretty much across the board. Jeffery and Sanu have size and assumed strength and therefore have an advantage as RZ targets. Not sure about hands but I seen that show you seen (at least part of it and Posey "out hands'ed" them in that, FWIW the others seemed more nervous than he).

BTW 4.3 - 4.4 isn't very typical, most are mid 4.4 to mid 4.5. Doesn't seem like a lot but it is quite a difference.

izzy's dad
02-19-2012, 08:28 AM
I don't think you are wrong in suggesting Posey is faster than alot of those other guys, I am pretty confident he is. He has average NFL WR speed those others you mentioned are a tick or in some cases 2 ticks below that. Floyd seems like about a 4.55 type and Jeffery and Sanu seem closer to 4.60 in my estimation. And Posey is definitely more agile and quick IMO. Posey will likely be a better value I think than at least those latter 2 if not all 3. I suspect it'll be Blackmon, Wright, Floyd in the early then mid, then late 1st round (probably in that order). And those other 3 in the mid to late 2nd early 3rd but depending on needs could fall further. Sanu & Jeffrey had better seasons and seemingly have better publicists than Posey. Posey's weakness is that he doesn't really stand out that much in any regard, he's solid but unspectacular pretty much across the board. Jeffery and Sanu have size and assumed strength and therefore have an advantage as RZ targets. Not sure about hands but I seen that show you seen (at least part of it and Posey "out hands'ed" them in that, FWIW the others seemed more nervous than he).

BTW 4.3 - 4.4 isn't very typical, most are mid 4.4 to mid 4.5. Doesn't seem like a lot but it is quite a difference.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest. Posey as a fourth rounder seems like a better value pick than any of those other guys. I could be wrong, I probably am. For what it's worth, I also have Ryan Broyles as a target, but not before the fourth round. This team has too many more critical needs to be taking a reciever before round 4/5. The free agent market is very deep with #2 type WR, I would rather make a play on one of them than use an early draft pick to get a guy that may not help right away.

Ohayou
02-21-2012, 06:31 PM
Not a Browns fan, but if they had any sense they would draft RG3/Kendall Wright in the 1st, and Chris Polk in the 2nd if he's there. Then maybe their fans would have something to believe in.

WVRed
02-22-2012, 12:39 PM
Not a Browns fan, but if they had any sense they would draft RG3/Kendall Wright in the 1st, and Chris Polk in the 2nd if he's there. Then maybe their fans would have something to believe in.

I don't disagree with you, but RGIII falling to 4 is highly unlikely to happen.

The Rams and Vikings both have holes and will look to stockpile picks. Of course, if the Rams love Matt Kalil or the Vikings decide to go with Justin Blackmon, that could change. The Redskins and Dolphins could look to move up and if the Browns stand pat, they lose RGIII.

If it were me, I would go with Trent Richardson and Kendall Wright in the first and give Colt McCoy one more year with the added weapons. If he can't do it, the Browns will be likely in an ideal spot to draft Matt Barkley or Landry Jones next year.

JaxRed
02-26-2012, 03:23 PM
I'm about ready for the Redszone Mock Draft !!

Ohayou
02-26-2012, 05:13 PM
Stephen Hill's numbers at the combine were unbelievable, especially for someone as big as he is.

15fan
02-26-2012, 05:38 PM
Stephen Hill's numbers at the combine were unbelievable, especially for someone as big as he is.

He's solid. Most people didn't hear much about him because of Paul Johnson's run run run and run some more offense. He will certainly improve any team's receiving corps.

Ohayou
02-26-2012, 07:34 PM
Yeah, I could see him sneaking into the first round. Maybe with the 49ers?

texasdave
02-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Sounds as if Isaiah Pead helped himself at the combine.


Isaiah Pead/RB/Cincinnati: Pead's running back skills were possibly the best of any ball carrier who took the field Sunday. He effortlessly cut against the grain during drills and never slowed down changing direction. Pead showed great balance and body control all afternoon then effectively caught the ball as the session ended.

Revering4Blue
02-27-2012, 07:54 PM
The St. Louis Rams have decided to trade the No. 2 pick, league sources said Monday.

According to sources, the Rams already have had trade discussions with the Cleveland Browns (No. 4), Washington Redskins (No. 6) and Miami Dolphins (No. 8), each of whom is scheduled to pick in the top eight in April's draft.

Smart move.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7622088/2012-nfl-draft-st-louis-rams-decide-trade-no-2-overall-pick-sources-say

izzy's dad
02-28-2012, 06:52 AM
Guys that really impressed me: Doug Martin, his workout was solid, and if Marshall Faulk likes your game you can count me in too. Isaiah Pead, had a great combine. Can he carry the ball 20+ times a game? Probably not, but this is an NFL where a back doesn't have to pound it all day long. Dontari Poe (spelling?), if you watched his workouts I need not say more. Lamar Miller, his combine was nice. But can he stay healthy? Cordy Glenn, there is no doubt in my mind he could fix our LG problem for years to come. Michael Floyd, didn't think he was that fast. He looked locked in during his drills. Devier Posey, ran a much faster 40 than was anticipated. Showed crisp routes, and good hands. Had a rough drill at the combine, though I can't recall what it was. Could be a great value pick in rounds 4 or 5. Zach Brown, he is big, fast and productive... what else do you want in an OLB? Stephen Hill, along with Poe probably had the best combine. Not only was he fast, but stood out in the WR drills along with Michael Floyd. Anyway, that's my two cents. Not saying that these are guys that the Bengals should or will target in the draft, just sharing my impressions.

Mario-Rijo
02-28-2012, 04:29 PM
Stephen Hill's numbers at the combine were unbelievable, especially for someone as big as he is.

6' 4" Sub 4.4 speed reminds me of Chris Henry. I'm not a big fan of drafting WR's alot of the time but guys like him excite me, opens up the field for everyone. Granted not sure I'd be for spending a high pick on a raw WR unless they don't re-sign Simpson but we have enough guys underneath to just basically have him run 2-3 routes for awhile (Go, post, slant maybe a curl now and then). We have alot of options depending on what happens in FA. I think Hill is a solid mid 2nd rounder at worst.

Benihana
02-28-2012, 04:43 PM
6' 4" Sub 4.4 speed reminds me of Chris Henry. I'm not a big fan of drafting WR's alot of the time but guys like him excite me, opens up the field for everyone. Granted not sure I'd be for spending a high pick on a raw WR unless they don't re-sign Simpson but we have enough guys underneath to just basically have him run 2-3 routes for awhile (Go, post, slant maybe a curl now and then). We have alot of options depending on what happens in FA. I think Hill is a solid mid 2nd rounder at worst.

I'd be OK with Stephen Hill in the 2nd, not the 1st at this point. Ditto for Alshon Jeffery. We should not give Simpson anything more than the league minimum (to be our #4 WR).

Mario-Rijo
02-28-2012, 04:46 PM
Guys that really impressed me: Doug Martin, his workout was solid, and if Marshall Faulk likes your game you can count me in too. Isaiah Pead, had a great combine. Can he carry the ball 20+ times a game? Probably not, but this is an NFL where a back doesn't have to pound it all day long. Dontari Poe (spelling?), if you watched his workouts I need not say more. Lamar Miller, his combine was nice. But can he stay healthy? Cordy Glenn, there is no doubt in my mind he could fix our LG problem for years to come. Michael Floyd, didn't think he was that fast. He looked locked in during his drills. Devier Posey, ran a much faster 40 than was anticipated. Showed crisp routes, and good hands. Had a rough drill at the combine, though I can't recall what it was. Could be a great value pick in rounds 4 or 5. Zach Brown, he is big, fast and productive... what else do you want in an OLB? Stephen Hill, along with Poe probably had the best combine. Not only was he fast, but stood out in the WR drills along with Michael Floyd. Anyway, that's my two cents. Not saying that these are guys that the Bengals should or will target in the draft, just sharing my impressions.

Yeah Poe was the star of the show no doubt. A 350 pounder doing what he done is almost unheard of, Ngata territory. Have liked Martin all along but he likes to put the ball on the ground a bit much, fix that and he is a horse I'd love to have in the 2nd. But Miller, David Wilson and Pead all done really well also and would be fine additions. Another back was Turbin who done well and is a big back, something I like personally. I'm torn between Miller/Wilson/Martin. Like Millers wheels, Martins hands and size and Wilson isn't far off from either. C. Glenn did impress. Kuechly really solidified himself and he's one I wouldn't hate getting. Bobby Massie OT Mississippi I think raised his stock and in the process I think moved past Zebrie Sanders in the 2nd. Massie may be the next Whitworth. Could be an intriguing Bengals pick considering we need OG's now and depth at OT with Collins and Roland being FA's, plus Andre Smith being a FA in the not so distant future.

I'm thinking with how well these RB's done it made Richardsons stock drop some. If you can get someone like Martin in the 2nd or Pead in the 3rd why bother taking a RB in the 1st? No doubt some teams will feel this way and focus on less available positions, should allow for Richardson not to get picked too early. I'm almost to the point where I wouldn't hate passing on Richardson in the right scenario.

Mario-Rijo
02-28-2012, 04:53 PM
I'd be OK with Stephen Hill in the 2nd, not the 1st at this point. Ditto for Alshon Jeffery. We should not give Simpson anything more than the league minimum (to be our #4 WR).

I disagree I think people get to concerned about some things. Simpson can be a good starting WR in this league, he wasn't that bad last year though he does need to improve in some areas and he still has some considerable upside yet. Needs to have better focus, do better coming back to the ball, and really the rest is time and practice. The off the field issues I can sort of see but if you aren't signing him to start then don't sign him at all. I don't want anything to do with those big slow WR's Jeffrey, Sanu etc. If not Simpson sign a FA like Meachem or Manningham maybe draft Hill as a replacement for Caldwell.

Caveat Emperor
02-29-2012, 02:06 AM
I disagree.

It all depends on needs. I have seen Richardson to the Chiefs and in that instance I agree with you. They have Charles and even though they love the two back system wasting a first round pick on a 15-17 touch per game person does not seem like good business when you can get a good running back later.

But if you are a team with no back then I can see taking Richardson in first round. Especially if you think he is Peterson/Jones-Drew good.

Everything is needs. I hear the same argument about "Never take a safety with a high pick." Well, if you need a safety and feel one guy is head and shoulders above every other safety prospect then take him. Great players are great players. If you have a chance to take one you take him and sort out everything else later, IMO.

Haven't checked this thread in a while, but I need to respond to this.

The NFL is a pass-first league. Heck, you could argue that it's now a pass-second and pass-third league at this point. Successful teams -- the Patriots, Packers, Giants, Saints, even the Pittsburgh Steelers -- rely on big-time QB/WR/TE connections in order to move the ball and score points. Running games exist as a change of pace to a downfield passing attack. Most successful offenses have 2-3 back committees and tend to shy away from the prototypical "feature" back.

Teams that have the great QB and playmakers at WR/TE can succeed with minimal support from the running game. Tom Brady makes the Super Bowl with Danny Woodhead and Benjarvis Green-Ellis carrying the ball. Eli Manning's Giants win the Super Bowl but didn't have a single back put up 700 yards (leading rusher, Bradshaw, a 7th round pick). Aaron Rodgers nearly went undefeated with an undrafted free-agent (Grant) and a 6th rounder (Starks) splitting carries.

The inverse, however, is not true. Ray Rice has not been able to carry Joe Flacco and the Ravens middling WR corps to a Super Bowl. Maurice Jones-Drew cannot overcome the awful that has been Jacksonville's QB play during his career. Adrian Peterson's only sniff of glory came in a season where Brett Favre pulled a Lazarus act and put up great aerial numbers. Last season's fluke aside, Frank Gore hasn't led the Alex Smith-burdened 49ers to anything resembling good for the majority of his career.

The feature back is a dying concept. Successful teams have figured this out while other teams are stuck in neutral, trying to scheme and gameplan to get touches for their running back.

Drafting Trent Richardson is dinosaur thinking -- especially when you have the ability to get players who can help you pass the football or defend the pass instead. If you're drawing up a blueprint for building a great team, you'll need lots of good WRs, TEs, DBs, DEs, and a great QB. You won't ever need a great RB.

Wonderful Monds
02-29-2012, 03:01 AM
Haven't checked this thread in a while, but I need to respond to this.

The NFL is a pass-first league. Heck, you could argue that it's now a pass-second and pass-third league at this point. Successful teams -- the Patriots, Packers, Giants, Saints, even the Pittsburgh Steelers -- rely on big-time QB/WR/TE connections in order to move the ball and score points. Running games exist as a change of pace to a downfield passing attack. Most successful offenses have 2-3 back committees and tend to shy away from the prototypical "feature" back.

Teams that have the great QB and playmakers at WR/TE can succeed with minimal support from the running game. Tom Brady makes the Super Bowl with Danny Woodhead and Benjarvis Green-Ellis carrying the ball. Eli Manning's Giants win the Super Bowl but didn't have a single back put up 700 yards (leading rusher, Bradshaw, a 7th round pick). Aaron Rodgers nearly went undefeated with an undrafted free-agent (Grant) and a 6th rounder (Starks) splitting carries.

The inverse, however, is not true. Ray Rice has not been able to carry Joe Flacco and the Ravens middling WR corps to a Super Bowl. Maurice Jones-Drew cannot overcome the awful that has been Jacksonville's QB play during his career. Adrian Peterson's only sniff of glory came in a season where Brett Favre pulled a Lazarus act and put up great aerial numbers. Last season's fluke aside, Frank Gore hasn't led the Alex Smith-burdened 49ers to anything resembling good for the majority of his career.

The feature back is a dying concept. Successful teams have figured this out while other teams are stuck in neutral, trying to scheme and gameplan to get touches for their running back.

Drafting Trent Richardson is dinosaur thinking -- especially when you have the ability to get players who can help you pass the football or defend the pass instead. If you're drawing up a blueprint for building a great team, you'll need lots of good WRs, TEs, DBs, DEs, and a great QB. You won't ever need a great RB.
Next thing you know we'll be hearing about the smart teams that picked up the premier running backs to attack all the defenses that started stacking up to stop the rest of the pass happy league.

Mario-Rijo
02-29-2012, 11:20 AM
Haven't checked this thread in a while, but I need to respond to this.

The NFL is a pass-first league. Heck, you could argue that it's now a pass-second and pass-third league at this point. Successful teams -- the Patriots, Packers, Giants, Saints, even the Pittsburgh Steelers -- rely on big-time QB/WR/TE connections in order to move the ball and score points. Running games exist as a change of pace to a downfield passing attack. Most successful offenses have 2-3 back committees and tend to shy away from the prototypical "feature" back.

Teams that have the great QB and playmakers at WR/TE can succeed with minimal support from the running game. Tom Brady makes the Super Bowl with Danny Woodhead and Benjarvis Green-Ellis carrying the ball. Eli Manning's Giants win the Super Bowl but didn't have a single back put up 700 yards (leading rusher, Bradshaw, a 7th round pick). Aaron Rodgers nearly went undefeated with an undrafted free-agent (Grant) and a 6th rounder (Starks) splitting carries.

The inverse, however, is not true. Ray Rice has not been able to carry Joe Flacco and the Ravens middling WR corps to a Super Bowl. Maurice Jones-Drew cannot overcome the awful that has been Jacksonville's QB play during his career. Adrian Peterson's only sniff of glory came in a season where Brett Favre pulled a Lazarus act and put up great aerial numbers. Last season's fluke aside, Frank Gore hasn't led the Alex Smith-burdened 49ers to anything resembling good for the majority of his career.

The feature back is a dying concept. Successful teams have figured this out while other teams are stuck in neutral, trying to scheme and gameplan to get touches for their running back.

Drafting Trent Richardson is dinosaur thinking -- especially when you have the ability to get players who can help you pass the football or defend the pass instead. If you're drawing up a blueprint for building a great team, you'll need lots of good WRs, TEs, DBs, DEs, and a great QB. You won't ever need a great RB.

The feature back may have morphed and changed but nothing else has really changed. So on one hand I agree that their value isn't what it once was the running game itself is no less utilized or for that matter important. If one drops into your lap at #17 and you have another pick four picks later you take him. And my guess is the Bengals will do so, and they will use him in a rotation and effectively. My only concern now about Richardson is can he handle a full load should they need him too? If DeCastro is there is there any doubt as to who the smart pick is? I think I have convinced myself that DeCastro should be taken ahead of him. Rather have the #1 OG and the #3 or #4 RB than vice versa. But looking at the draft I am starting to wonder if that is even possible, not sure I see 17 players worth taking up there which means both should be gone.

Mario-Rijo
02-29-2012, 11:20 AM
Next thing you know we'll be hearing about the smart teams that picked up the premier running backs to attack all the defenses that started stacking up to stop the rest of the pass happy league.

:thumbup:

Caveat Emperor
02-29-2012, 11:56 AM
Next thing you know we'll be hearing about the smart teams that picked up the premier running backs to attack all the defenses that started stacking up to stop the rest of the pass happy league.

NFL rules currently beg you to pass the football. Players are getting bigger, faster, and stronger -- but the defensive secondary is the only place on the field where being bigger and stronger can't help you, thanks to stricter enforcement on the BS "defenseless WR" rules and the no-contact past 5 yards rule. Add in the "hands off the QB" rules, and it becomes even closer to a skeleton drill.

The pass-heavy NFL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The college game has been trending to spread-offenses for over a decade, and the NFL rule changes have basically ensured the spread will see even more uniform adoption in the league in the coming years.

bucksfan2
02-29-2012, 01:27 PM
NFL rules currently beg you to pass the football. Players are getting bigger, faster, and stronger -- but the defensive secondary is the only place on the field where being bigger and stronger can't help you, thanks to stricter enforcement on the BS "defenseless WR" rules and the no-contact past 5 yards rule. Add in the "hands off the QB" rules, and it becomes even closer to a skeleton drill.

The pass-heavy NFL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The college game has been trending to spread-offenses for over a decade, and the NFL rule changes have basically ensured the spread will see even more uniform adoption in the league in the coming years.

The Texans had a pretty darn good offense last season using Foster as a RB and a pass catching RB. The Ravens made up for a lot of Flacco's defencies by utilizing Ray Rice. The same can be said about the Bears and Forte before he and Cutler went down.

NFL offenses will continue to exploit defences in any way they can. Last season it wasn't as much of the downfield threat that became the in thing to do, rather the TE creating mismatches. While I think the NFL is going more towards a pass heavy league, I think a pass catching RB is very valuable.

Ohayou
03-10-2012, 12:01 AM
Rams agree to trade #2 overall pick to Redskins. Three first round picks and a second rounder. That is an insane haul for any player.

VottoFan54
03-10-2012, 12:17 AM
Rams agree to trade #2 overall pick to Redskins. Three first round picks and a second rounder. That is an insane haul for any player.

Quarterbacks that are drafted in the first round are such a crapshoot. It is stupid for a team to make a trade like this. If RG III turns out like Jamarcus Russell or Alex Smith then this franchise is guaranteed to be awful for the next five years with no high-end young talent.

Personally I think RG III is overated, he would literally have to become a top 10 QB in the NFL in order for this to be considered a good trade, how likely is that? When RG III enters the NFL, I think teams will try to contain him in the pocket and make him throw against NFL coverages. IMO, RG III will not play well when he has to rely solely on his arm.

Take a look at this list of QB's drafted in the first round in the last ten years:

2001- Michael Vick (#1)
2002- David Carr (#1)
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
2003- Carson Palmer (#1)
Bryon Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
2004- Eli Manning (#1)
Phillip Rivers
Ben Rothleisberger (sp?)
J.P. Losman
2005-Alex Smith (#1)
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
2006-Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
2007-JaMarcus Russell (#1)
Brady Quinn
2008-Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
2009-Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
2010- Sam Bradford (#1)
Tim Tebow

There are only about 5 or 6 QB's on that list that I would make that trade for.

Slyder
03-10-2012, 01:35 AM
Rams agree to trade #2 overall pick to Redskins. Three first round picks and a second rounder. That is an insane haul for any player.

I think the Vikings and Ditka have competition now for most lopsided trade of all times... I don't see this one ending well for Washington because the idiot owner and the man that John Elway made a star will figure out some way to screw this up.

Slyder
03-10-2012, 01:37 AM
Quarterbacks that are drafted in the first round are such a crapshoot. It is stupid for a team to make a trade like this. If RG III turns out like Jamarcus Russell or Alex Smith then this franchise is guaranteed to be awful for the next five years with no high-end young talent.

Personally I think RG III is overated, he would literally have to become a top 10 QB in the NFL in order for this to be considered a good trade, how likely is that? When RG III enters the NFL, I think teams will try to contain him in the pocket and make him throw against NFL coverages. IMO, RG III will not play well when he has to rely solely on his arm.

Take a look at this list of QB's drafted in the first round in the last ten years:

2001- Michael Vick (#1)
2002- David Carr (#1)
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
2003- Carson Palmer (#1)
Bryon Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
2004- Eli Manning (#1)
Phillip Rivers
Ben Rothleisberger (sp?)
J.P. Losman
2005-Alex Smith (#1)
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
2006-Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
2007-JaMarcus Russell (#1)
Brady Quinn
2008-Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
2009-Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
2010- Sam Bradford (#1)
Tim Tebow

There are only about 5 or 6 QB's on that list that I would make that trade for.

Bolded above are who I would consider it at the time they were drafted. I was higher on Leftwich than probably most because I thought his game would translate better in the NFL than he ended up making it. Other names I would have considered for that Peyton of course... Other than that no way.

kaldaniels
03-10-2012, 02:52 AM
What a haul for the Rams. They are the sure winners here. They have a QB. Now they have 5 first round picks over the next 3 years.

KronoRed
03-10-2012, 03:09 AM
It's always a treat every NFL off season to see the Redskins shoot themselves in the foot.

IslandRed
03-10-2012, 04:12 AM
That was pretty dumb by the Redskins... unless it turns out not to be. It's hard to sniff a Super Bowl nowadays without a pretty good quarterback, and if a team hasn't had one in virtually forever, it's almost duty-bound to take the shot even if the odds are against it working out. It's not like they've been getting anywhere with the Campbells and washed-up McNabbs of the world.

RichRed
03-10-2012, 08:26 AM
As a Skins fan, I'm excited about the prospect of seeing RGIII play, but I can't help but have that uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach after what they gave up. It's the same feeling I've had for much of the past two decades. Man, this better work out.

KoryMac5
03-10-2012, 10:24 AM
I was wondering why Cleveland changed direction pretty quick and set it's sights on Flynn. Washington gave up too much on this deal and the only way to justify it is for them to get to the Super Bowl. Lot of pressure on RGIII to perform. I do like Washington's team though so it should be interesting to see how this plays out.

Sea Ray
03-10-2012, 10:43 AM
I was wondering why Cleveland changed direction pretty quick and set it's sights on Flynn. Washington gave up too much on this deal and the only way to justify it is for them to get to the Super Bowl. Lot of pressure on RGIII to perform. I do like Washington's team though so it should be interesting to see how this plays out.

As a Bengal fan, I'm glad the trade went down like it did. I was afraid he'd end up in our division. As for Flynn, there's going to be competition. Seattle and Miami are going to go hard after him too.

I see a lot of Vince Young in RG3 but I didn't think Cam Newton would have the year he did either

Hillsdale87
03-10-2012, 11:07 AM
As a Bengal fan, I'm glad the trade went down like it did. I was afraid he'd end up in our division. As for Flynn, there's going to be competition. Seattle and Miami are going to go hard after him too.

I see a lot of Vince Young in RG3 but I didn't think Cam Newton would have the year he did either

RG3 is a much better passer than VY. He's also much more disciplined and unlikely to carry the baggage that came with Young. Everybody that talks to RG3 is blown away by how poised and intelligent he is. Vince Young, on the other hand, scored a 6 on the Wonderlic... If I was a GM, I would have a hard time giving up all those picks to move up to get Griffin, but I think he's going to be a star.

Sea Ray
03-10-2012, 11:23 AM
RG3 is a much better passer than VY. He's also much more disciplined and unlikely to carry the baggage that came with Young. Everybody that talks to RG3 is blown away by how poised and intelligent he is. Vince Young, on the other hand, scored a 6 on the Wonderlic... If I was a GM, I would have a hard time giving up all those picks to move up to get Griffin, but I think he's going to be a star.

Those are good points. What I'm bothered by are the mechanics. I see RG3 throw with his body facing the receiver instead of the Carson Palmer model of standing perpendicular to the WR and pointing your left shoulder to him. I also saw RG3 at Baylor either run or chuck a jump ball pass into the air when his primary WR was covered. He had a wonderful arm and a wonderful #1 WR so that strategy helped his stats immensely. Will he overcome that in the NFL? He might. We'll see but these are obstacles that more polished prospects don't have to

Hillsdale87
03-10-2012, 12:02 PM
Those are good points. What I'm bothered by are the mechanics. I see RG3 throw with his body facing the receiver instead of the Carson Palmer model of standing perpendicular to the WR and pointing your left shoulder to him. I also saw RG3 at Baylor either run or chuck a jump ball pass into the air when his primary WR was covered. He had a wonderful arm and a wonderful #1 WR so that strategy helped his stats immensely. Will he overcome that in the NFL? He might. We'll see but these are obstacles that more polished prospects don't have to

In this draft, I see Luck as the sure thing, but I could easily see Griffin having the better career.

I agree that he doesn't have the best mechanics, but his accuracy hasn't really suffered because of it. Vince Young had bad mechanics, and it manifested itself in poor accuracy, whereas Griffin gets the ball to the target with good zip. He throws the deep ball as well or better than anybody in the NFL. And yes, he didn't show great ability to move to his 2nd and 3rd reads in college, but I think that was mostly a function of the offense that they ran. All the scouts at the combine were blown away by his knowledge of offense and progressions. No QB is a guarantee, which is why this was obviously such a risky move, but I think Griffin will be a great QB for the Redskins. Hopefully they're able to surround him with players after giving up so many draft picks though.

Sea Ray
03-10-2012, 05:17 PM
Considering that when the Bengals traded up from #5 to #1 to get Ki Jana Carter all they had to do was give up their 2nd rd pick, the haul here is amazing.

Mario-Rijo
03-10-2012, 08:51 PM
Let's see, a smarter, more disciplined, bigger & better passing version of Mike Vick? While steep I think it's will prove to be worth it for Cleveland.

Ohayou
03-10-2012, 09:18 PM
You mean Washington.

Hillsdale87
03-11-2012, 12:17 AM
Considering that when the Bengals traded up from #5 to #1 to get Ki Jana Carter all they had to do was give up their 2nd rd pick, the haul here is amazing.

There's no way the Rams could have gotten that haul in previous years. But with the new CBA, rookies aren't going to be getting the extreme contracts like in years past, so the 2nd pick is so much more valuable now. Plus they had a nice bidding war going. This could work out for both teams in the end if RG3 realizes his full potential, but St. Louis for sure hit the jackpot.

Hoosier Red
03-11-2012, 04:29 PM
As a Bengal fan, I'm glad the trade went down like it did. I was afraid he'd end up in our division. As for Flynn, there's going to be competition. Seattle and Miami are going to go hard after him too.

I see a lot of Vince Young in RG3 but I didn't think Cam Newton would have the year he did either

I agree 100%. I haven't decided if I think he's boom or bust, and of course it doesn't matter what I think, but I'm sure glad we won't find out if he's a revelation twice a year.
If the trade doesn't go down and RGIII goes to Cleveland and is a bust, the Bengals are no better off then their current situation. If he's a boom, then all of a sudden there are four competent teams.

KoryMac5
03-11-2012, 04:37 PM
There's no way the Rams could have gotten that haul in previous years. But with the new CBA, rookies aren't going to be getting the extreme contracts like in years past, so the 2nd pick is so much more valuable now. Plus they had a nice bidding war going. This could work out for both teams in the end if RG3 realizes his full potential, but St. Louis for sure hit the jackpot.

Makes me wonder what the Colts could have gotten for Luck. I imagine the bidding would have started with 3 first round picks, a second and perhaps a third. It could have possibly gone to 4 first round picks if enough teams were interested. You could fill a lot of holes with that haul.

Mario-Rijo
03-11-2012, 05:09 PM
You mean Washington.

Yeah, thanks.

Sea Ray
03-12-2012, 11:58 AM
I agree 100%. I haven't decided if I think he's boom or bust, and of course it doesn't matter what I think, but I'm sure glad we won't find out if he's a revelation twice a year.
If the trade doesn't go down and RGIII goes to Cleveland and is a bust, the Bengals are no better off then their current situation. If he's a boom, then all of a sudden there are four competent teams.

Maybe we need Cleveland fans to chime in here but tell me how is it Holmgren wouldn't part with that 2nd 1st rd pick to move up? That was not a high 1st rd pick (Atlanta's). Being a Bengal fan, me thinks I'm going to be rooting hard for RGIII now to do well and continue the Browns' what if misery

MikeThierry
03-12-2012, 12:32 PM
As a Rams fan, I'm so happy that Daniel Synder lost his bloody mind. For a team that needs an influx of talent and is rebuilding, this trade will significantly help build a struggling Rams team for years. This trade blows away my idea on the Rams drafting Blackmon, but I'll take it.

Benihana
03-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Makes me wonder what the Colts could have gotten for Luck. I imagine the bidding would have started with 3 first round picks, a second and perhaps a third. It could have possibly gone to 4 first round picks if enough teams were interested. You could fill a lot of holes with that haul.

That's probably what Peyton was telling Irsay weeks ago. Once they parted ways with Peyton, they had to get Luck(y).

I'd be very happy if I were a Rams fan right about now.

Caveat Emperor
03-12-2012, 10:27 PM
Cleveland is/was better off staying put and drafting Weeden in the second round anyway. Worst case scenario, they're bad enough to grab Barkley next season.

Ohayou
03-12-2012, 10:47 PM
49ers sign Moss to 1 year deal.