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View Full Version : So what are expectations?



Todd Gack
01-11-2012, 07:42 AM
World Series or bust? If you make all these moves, spend all this money, trade your best prospects away, we have to win the WS, right?

NCCardfan
01-11-2012, 09:15 AM
The Reds HAVE to make the playoffs with the moves that's been made, anything less would be failure. Another NLDS exit would also be falling short but an NLCS appearance would be a break even season IMO. A pennant would be an accomplishment and a WS would be real nice.

Right now there's about 13 teams (NL: ATL, MIA, PHI, CIN, STL, AZ, / AL: NYY, BOS, TB, TOR, DET, CLE, LAA, TEX) with some type of WS champion capable roster, injuries and other intangibles will thin that field down and at least 1 team not listed will overperform and make a run at their pennant. It would be too premature to look at it since the FA market has so many names left, ST & opening day rosters will be nice times to really analize but the Reds are making some good moves as are the Cards. 2012 will be a great season in the NL Central, I just hope that the division race goes to the last week of the season because locking up the division early sure has shown to hurt the division champ a lot of the time, MIL barely got past AZ this year and the NL Central Champ was knocked out in the DS 4 years in a row before that.

jhu1321
01-11-2012, 09:41 AM
Need to win the Central and not play the Phillies in opening round. We have a chance against them in a 7 game series but will struggle in a 5 game series facing Halladay, Lee and Hammels. I think it's NLCS or bust. Our ability to do that probably dictates what happens with Votto & Phillips extensions.

sdwagers
01-11-2012, 10:35 AM
The Reds have clearly positioned themselves for a postseason run. Too many intangibles to say how far they will go, but this clearly one the best offseasons I can remember in my 35+ years as Reds fan. By the allstar break - if the Reds are not contending they have four massive trade chips in Votto, Phillips, Marshall and Madson to use and starting rebuilding around Jay Bruce. Jocketty will have to be creative or the payroll will have to increase to keep this team together for a long run. I suspect the fans to come out early and support this team. If this team gels, it will certainly be a fun year, and hopefully a World Series year.

alett12
01-11-2012, 10:57 AM
I think the reds have the perfect storm coming into this season. They've made the moves to win now while making sure they can win in the future

jhu1321
01-11-2012, 12:28 PM
I think the reds have the perfect storm coming into this season. They've made the moves to win now while making sure they can win in the future

:beerme:

Maker_84
01-11-2012, 12:56 PM
NLCS appearance, anything less is a failure

takealeake
01-11-2012, 01:13 PM
LOL @ NLCS as "break even." That would be a heck of a year to get to that point IMO, not a break even year.


The Reds HAVE to make the playoffs with the moves that's been made, anything less would be failure. Another NLDS exit would also be falling short but an NLCS appearance would be a break even season IMO. A pennant would be an accomplishment and a WS would be real nice.

Right now there's about 13 teams (NL: ATL, MIA, PHI, CIN, STL, AZ, / AL: NYY, BOS, TB, TOR, DET, CLE, LAA, TEX) with some type of WS champion capable roster, injuries and other intangibles will thin that field down and at least 1 team not listed will overperform and make a run at their pennant. It would be too premature to look at it since the FA market has so many names left, ST & opening day rosters will be nice times to really analize but the Reds are making some good moves as are the Cards. 2012 will be a great season in the NL Central, I just hope that the division race goes to the last week of the season because locking up the division early sure has shown to hurt the division champ a lot of the time, MIL barely got past AZ this year and the NL Central Champ was knocked out in the DS 4 years in a row before that.

RedsBrick
01-11-2012, 01:18 PM
The Reds have clearly positioned themselves for a postseason run. Too many intangibles to say how far they will go, but this clearly one the best offseasons I can remember in my 35+ years as Reds fan. By the allstar break - if the Reds are not contending they have four massive trade chips in Votto, Phillips, Marshall and Madson to use and starting rebuilding around Jay Bruce. Jocketty will have to be creative or the payroll will have to increase to keep this team together for a long run. I suspect the fans to come out early and support this team. If this team gels, it will certainly be a fun year, and hopefully a World Series year.

If the Reds are sellers at the deadline, Baker better be sitting on a beach somewhere sippin' cold drinks and far, far away from the Reds' dugout!

alett12
01-11-2012, 01:37 PM
If the Reds are sellers at the deadline, Baker better be sitting on a beach somewhere sippin' cold drinks and far, far away from the Reds' dugout!

personally i think he should be doing that any way. But it the reds are selling at the dead line then i don't care how much i like him but walt should be gone too.

The DARK
01-11-2012, 01:49 PM
This division isn't going to be a cakewalk. The Cardinals have a young, improving bullpen, three powerful veterans at the core of their lineup, and will likely get back Wainwright. The Brewers may have lost Fielder and may not have Braun for 50 games, but that's less than a third of the season. They also bring back their impressive rotation and got a major upgrade with Ramirez at third base.

That said, it's playoffs or bust. You don't take on the kind of payroll that we just did for single season contracts if you aren't going for it.

BallPark Bob
01-11-2012, 01:50 PM
Expectations are 90+ wins and postseason baseball. Playoff outcome based on whether Cueto/Latos emerge as a one-two combination that can battle with Halladay/Lee/Hamels or Carpenter/Wainwright/Gargia, etc. 2010 Giants and 2011 Cardinals beat the Phillies because they matched really strong pitching performances by the Phillies in key games.

alett12
01-11-2012, 02:00 PM
I honestly don't think the cards are as good as they look. The majority are old almost done with their careers and the rest were just really lucky. You can't match Albert in the line up with beltran it just isnt the same. Berkman got pitched to because he had albert and holliday. The rotation will be tough i'll give them that one. As for the brewers, aramis will be a big help to them. I've got a feeling they might even try and put braun at 1st when he comes back to get Morgan some more time which makes that line up very fast. So they won't be easy either but i just think the reds are clearly the best team in the division.

NCCardfan
01-11-2012, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by NCCardfan
The Reds HAVE to make the playoffs with the moves that's been made, anything less would be failure. Another NLDS exit would also be falling short but an NLCS appearance would be a break even season IMO. A pennant would be an accomplishment and a WS would be real nice.

Right now there's about 13 teams (NL: ATL, MIA, PHI, CIN, STL, AZ, / AL: NYY, BOS, TB, TOR, DET, CLE, LAA, TEX) with some type of WS champion capable roster, injuries and other intangibles will thin that field down and at least 1 team not listed will overperform and make a run at their pennant. It would be too premature to look at it since the FA market has so many names left, ST & opening day rosters will be nice times to really analize but the Reds are making some good moves as are the Cards. 2012 will be a great season in the NL Central, I just hope that the division race goes to the last week of the season because locking up the division early sure has shown to hurt the division champ a lot of the time, MIL barely got past AZ this year and the NL Central Champ was knocked out in the DS 4 years in a row before that.


LOL @ NLCS as "break even." That would be a heck of a year to get to that point IMO, not a break even year.

Getting to the NLCS is a good year and that's not what I meant by my earlier statement.
Walt has made some great moves this off-season and in response to the OP stating that anything less than a WS win is a bust I said:

1 - The Reds HAVE to make the playoffs with the moves that's been made, anything less would be failure.

2 - Another NLDS exit would also be falling short

3 - an NLCS appearance would be a break even season IMO.

4 - A pennant would be an accomplishment

5 - and a WS would be real nice.


The OP's statement about making the WS or the season's a bust was not entirely accurate IMO but my point was that with the lost prospects and the players that Walt has picked up short term that an equal return on the investment would be a trip to the NLCS.
Only 4 out of 30 teams will go to the league championship series this year and CIN has made the moves that should get them there if the injury bug doesn't rear it's ugly head. Hope this makes more sense.

AintlifeGrande
01-11-2012, 05:54 PM
Win the Pennant.No excuse not too.

nmculbreth
01-11-2012, 06:05 PM
A playoff appearance, either via winning the division or the wild card.

There's a lot of volatility in the playoffs, particularly in a short series, so I'm not sure I can get behind the idea that losing in the NLDS makes this season a failure.

That said I think this team is far better situated for a deep run than the 2010 team. With Latos and Cueto at the top of the rotation the Reds will be able to compete with just about any rotation they might face and a playoff bullpen with Bray, Chapman, Marshall and Madson is downright scary.

RedsBrick
01-11-2012, 07:27 PM
personally i think he should be doing that any way. But it the reds are selling at the dead line then i don't care how much i like him but walt should be gone too.

Not a big Dusty fan either but it's a moot point because he will manage this season....and hopefully the entire year and then some! If not, this season derailed.

redsfanmia
01-11-2012, 07:28 PM
Unless they do something about an outfield that will strike out 500+ times they will be mired in third place.

RedsfaninMT
01-11-2012, 07:43 PM
Unless they do something about an outfield that will strike out 500+ times they will be mired in third place.

Third place behind who? Brewers are not going to be the same team without Prince, and without Braun for a third of the season, assuming that is upheld.

There are several key questions to the Reds season to me:
1. Health - as always.
2. Can Rolen bounce back, at least a little? If not, can Encarnacion fill in decently?
3. How does Chapman do as a starter? If he is a #2 type, this team will take off. I think he has that capability. We shall see.
4. How does Cozart do in his first full season? If he's Janish-esque it spells trouble. If he's as good as he showed during his brief stint last year, this offense will be tough.

OF strikeouts are nowhere near my list of biggest questions and concerns.

RedsfaninMT
01-11-2012, 07:46 PM
Third place behind who? Brewers are not going to be the same team without Prince, and without Braun for a third of the season, assuming that is upheld.

There are several key questions to the Reds season to me:
1. Health - as always.
2. Can Rolen bounce back, at least a little? If not, can Encarnacion fill in decently?
3. How does Chapman do as a starter? If he is a #2 type, this team will take off. I think he has that capability. We shall see.
4. How does Cozart do in his first full season? If he's Janish-esque it spells trouble. If he's as good as he showed during his brief stint last year, this offense will be tough.

OF strikeouts are nowhere near my list of biggest questions and concerns.

Gah! Encarnacion? Sorry for the bad memories.

bagz
01-12-2012, 08:50 AM
I think this team has what is needed to win the WS. That being said I would expect a playoff appearance. No NL team can match us on defense and our pitching is vastly improved. I think Arroyo has can comeback and have a good year. We have a good mix of young players who with a couple of seasons under their belt should be more selective at the plate. The Cards are Old and will Fold because this offseason the Reds were Bold.

Todd Gack
01-12-2012, 09:34 AM
Interesting comments. I believe we need to win the WS to validate these trades/money. I'm not a huge fan of the trades unless we win the WS. Of course, it all depends on what the prospects we traded do too.

With that said, anything less than a WS will be a disappointment.

alett12
01-12-2012, 11:18 AM
Interesting comments. I believe we need to win the WS to validate these trades/money. I'm not a huge fan of the trades unless we win the WS. Of course, it all depends on what the prospects we traded do too.

With that said, anything less than a WS will be a disappointment.

This team has aspirations of the series for sure the next 2 years

jmt5887
01-12-2012, 12:30 PM
I'm thinking 90 wins and Playoff appearance as my expectations.

Captain13
01-12-2012, 12:58 PM
I'm thinking 90 wins and Playoff appearance as my expectations.

I agree, at least 90 wins and the playoffs. After that, everything is a crap-shoot.

alett12
01-12-2012, 02:14 PM
I'm thinking 90 wins and Playoff appearance as my expectations.

At least 95 that should insure a firm lead in the division

redsfanmia
01-12-2012, 03:21 PM
75 wins, a mid season manager change and a salary dump at the deadline. The offense will be the problem with this team going weeks where they score 9 runs per then weeks where they get shut out 4 times. The offense is not good enough and don't throw stats out about how great they are offensively, they are not consistent enough to win the division.

jhu1321
01-12-2012, 03:27 PM
75 wins, a mid season manager change and a salary dump at the deadline. The offense will be the problem with this team going weeks where they score 9 runs per then weeks where they get shut out 4 times. The offense is not good enough and don't throw stats out about how great they are offensively, they are not consistent enough to win the division.

They won more games than that last year with the same offense.

The upgraded pitching staff and bullpen will net 10-15 more wins alone.

redsfanmia
01-12-2012, 06:39 PM
They won more games than that last year with the same offense.

The upgraded pitching staff and bullpen will net 10-15 more wins alone.

Talk to me next October.

jhu1321
01-12-2012, 07:51 PM
Don't have to wait until October. How about mid-season when we make our manager change and start dumping salary.

Tadasimha
01-12-2012, 10:20 PM
Winning the Central outright and advancing past the first round is my expectation. Anything else, given the crap shoot that is the post-season, is gravy. Wouldn't be shocked if they win the whole thing, of course, the horses are there offensively, defensively and on the mound, but anything less than the NLCS would be a let down.

NCCardfan
01-12-2012, 10:28 PM
Winning the Central outright and advancing past the first round is my expectation. Anything else, given the crap shoot that is the post-season, is gravy. Wouldn't be shocked if they win the whole thing, of course, the horses are there offensively, defensively and on the mound, but anything less than the NLCS would be a let down.

Wow! That's what post #2 says;). With Walt's moves a first round playoff exit would be falling short, but I got laughed at. Barring injury to multiple players, the Reds ought to get to the NLCS.

brad1176
01-13-2012, 09:01 AM
75 wins, a mid season manager change and a salary dump at the deadline. The offense will be the problem with this team going weeks where they score 9 runs per then weeks where they get shut out 4 times. The offense is not good enough and don't throw stats out about how great they are offensively, they are not consistent enough to win the division.

Where did the Yankees and Red Sox tremendous offense get them? Just saying....

Todd Gack
01-13-2012, 12:28 PM
This team has aspirations of the series for sure the next 2 years

Sorry, should've clarified my post. I meant the next two years as well. This year isn't the only year.

alett12
01-13-2012, 02:14 PM
Sorry, should've clarified my post. I meant the next two years as well. This year isn't the only year.

honestly I think it will be for 3 years depending on what happens with brandon and votto.