PDA

View Full Version : The new additions are nice..but the Key player in '12 is...



brm7675
01-11-2012, 03:48 PM
Scott Rolen....He is the vet leader on this team and brings something to the table this team lacked last year. If he can't give the Reds 125-130 games this year we might be in trouble.

Pete4prez
01-11-2012, 04:03 PM
Scott Rolen....He is the vet leader on this team and brings something to the table this team lacked last year. If he can't give the Reds 125-130 games this year we might be in trouble.

Agree.

jhu1321
01-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Jay Bruce - Must step up and show some consistency throughout the season. No more 20 HR months (May 2011) followed by 2 months where he looks lost.

izzy's dad
01-11-2012, 04:11 PM
I think not having Scott healthy last year really hurt this team. In all of the excitement of the offseason and the disappointment that was last season, Rolen's injury issues are kinda forgotten. To be honest, I really hadn't thought of this much. Good post.

Krawhitham
01-11-2012, 04:59 PM
Rolen is not the Key player, Francisco is better than Rolen right now with a bat AND the glove.

Francisco has improved leaps and bounds with a glove, making plays last season Rolen can no longer make. He won the Baseball America's Best infield arm award in 2011
Rolen can not stay healthy and when he is healthy he no longer fields routine balls.



The Key player will be either HI-C, Stubbs, or Bruce. The Reds needs another consistent bat in lineup besides Votto. The Reds will go nowhere without it.

Bruce put up good numbers last season but most of the numbers were in a 5 weeks stretch (2 stretches that equaled 5 weeks)

Stubbs started fast but fell hard and never recovered

HI-C is just now given a chance




If one of those three can step up and be the consistent bat the team needs they will be the key player

If Bruce can put up the same numbers but be more consistent about it the Reds will be in good shape

Rolen has not been a driving force in baseball for a long time, the last good season he had was 2006. Last season he was horrible, the season before than he fell off a cliff in the 2nd half (he had 3HR and 26 RBI in the 2nd half of 2010)

SidneySlicker
01-11-2012, 05:04 PM
The Reds OF combined for 536 strikeouts last season. That needs to lessen.

R_Webb18
01-11-2012, 05:22 PM
The key is jay bruce ppl

BuckWild03
01-11-2012, 05:30 PM
I think the key has to be Stubbs or Heisey. They both have to cut down on their strikeouts and get on base for this team to be successful. If they do that, we already have the missing pieces in house with Stubbs being our leadoff man (I know, I cringe saying that too) and Heisey as the right hand power bat to put between Votto and Bruce.

texasdave
01-11-2012, 06:12 PM
The key is Dusty. Let's hope he doesn't burn out the bullpen like he did in 2011.

OGB
01-11-2012, 06:49 PM
I agree with what everyone said about high strikeout rates and an outfield that needs to improve its consistency, but I think the most important player could be Homer Bailey.

There were times last year where he looked dominant, and plenty of others when he appeared on the cusp of being a solid #2 or even 1 starter. If he finally capitalizes on his talent and quits with the every third start being a two - four inning long disaster, this team will run away with the division.
Imagine a staff with Cueto, Latos, an improved Leake, Bailey realizing his potential, and that dominant bullpen. With that in place, any improvement out of the offense is just icing on the cake.

The DARK
01-11-2012, 09:42 PM
Third base is perhaps the biggest question mark on this team, and also the hardest to fix. Rolen's in all likelihood the starter, but he's injury-prone, unable to play more than 2/3 of the games, and hasn't had a great stretch since early 2010. Francisco clobbers chump pitchers, but occasionally looks overmatched. Frazier's performance has been uninspiring, and he'll probably be called upon in the outfield. Cairo is a great utility guy, but doesn't play great defense and isn't known as a guy who can start on a regular basis. We'll go with some combination of these guys, but don't expect us to be league average at the position. After Votto and Phillips, a whole lot of guys on this offense are going to have to kick production up a notch if we're gonna make the playoffs.

CrosleyField
01-11-2012, 10:08 PM
As long as Rolen and or Francisco stay healthy we should be fine at 3rd. A big problem last year is they both got hurt at the same time.

5ToolPlaya
01-11-2012, 10:34 PM
I have to agree with OGB, with a little more run support for Cueto at the top of the rotation Homer Bailey becomes the guy that if he reaches his potential this season it could really put the Reds over the top in the division. Its also imperative without Volzquez and Wood to fall back on that Bailey remain healthy as much as possible and limit those short dreadful outings.

R_Webb18
01-11-2012, 10:40 PM
The key is Dusty. Let's hope he doesn't burn out the bullpen like he did in 2011.

the starters didnt help

Nathan
01-11-2012, 11:04 PM
I'm not too worried about 3B. Right now, most teams are struggling there, so, it wouldn't be a stretch that we are at least league average there right now. Rolen, I think provides more intangible than most 3B's do, and, yes that helps. But...

To me, the key would be at least one of the rookies (Cozart and Meseroco) has to perform at least at league average offensively.

-or-

Stubbs, Heisey and Bruce needs to progress.

Any of those to conditions are met, than, the Reds' offense will be fine.

As far as pitching is concerned, The goal would be for Arroyo to bounce back and Bailey and Leake to progress. Latos can't get overwhelmed by GABP and Cueto can't regress much. The bullpen, well.. On paper, is pretty much perfect.

All of the above is definitely do-able. Execution is the true key. (No pressure on me, though, I'm just a fan.)

bagz
01-11-2012, 11:55 PM
I think the key has to be Stubbs or Heisey. They both have to cut down on their strikeouts and get on base for this team to be successful. If they do that, we already have the missing pieces in house with Stubbs being our leadoff man (I know, I cringe saying that too) and Heisey as the right hand power bat to put between Votto and Bruce.

I think all of our outfielders need to improve with Bruce leading the way with a breakout year. I would put Stubby in the 8th spot and leave him there. I'm also a big Heisey fan and also think he should bat between Votto and Bruce.

nux fan
01-12-2012, 01:24 AM
scott rolen is so over the hill that he should stop stealing money, francisco is a better hitter right now

webbbj
01-12-2012, 02:55 AM
the reds will win the central regardless of 3b production. its a nice piece not a key piece by any stretch.

alett12
01-12-2012, 09:34 AM
The keys to me are
1. Rolen stays healthy
2. Stubbs cuts down on Ks
3. Bronson bounces back
4. Cueto repeats the same type numbers
5. Bruce gets consistant

powersackers
01-12-2012, 09:47 AM
The key is Cozart and to some extent Mesoraco. Who's going to play SS if Zach fails? Who shares time with Hanigan if Mes is a wash? Both positions demand defense and leadership. Can the rookies step up? That's the Key question .

Captain13
01-12-2012, 09:58 AM
The keys, the way I see it, are a healthy 3B and a healthy SS. We don't need super production from those two spots, but healthy players with decent numbers will be enough.

Old NDN
01-12-2012, 11:40 AM
Good discussion on MLB TV last couple of nights about this very topic. Nice to hear opinions of other "experts" about the Reds. Millar said Jay Bruce must become more consistent and take that next step to stardom. Richard Justice claimed the keys were Rolen (injuries) and Stubbs (Ks).

brm7675
01-12-2012, 12:18 PM
I think many here are unvaluing the impact a healthy and productive Rolen brings to this franchise. This idea that Juan can step in and be a better option at 3rd to me is laughable at this point. Maybe in a season or two, but this year with question mark at 2nd base attitude wise, The youthfulness behind the plate and in teh OF, you need a stablizing player on the field producing to keep the team steady and that is what Rolen brings that no other every day player on this roster brings.

jmt5887
01-12-2012, 01:36 PM
in 2009 the Reds went 27-13 in games Rolen played in After the trade
in 2010 the Reds went 78-55 in games Rolen played in.
in 2011 the Reds were 31-34 in games Rolen Played in.
I think this proves his health is the key to the 2012 season.

nux fan
01-12-2012, 03:18 PM
what is laughable is the fantasy that rolen can still play

BallPark Bob
01-12-2012, 03:44 PM
My rank order of key position players....

Jay Bruce...He needs to take that next step to being a more consistent batter, which will significantly increase his numbers and make a big impact in the lineup.

Juan Francisco...Rolen's veteran leadership is great but we can't hang our hat forever on the 1st half of the 2010 season. Francisco should get at least 1/2 the ABs at third

Zach Cozart...Average to above average offensive production from an everyday SS would be a huge upgrade in the lineup

IMO all three have the potential to really impact the 2012 season because of their upside.

Stubbs is not going to change or all of sudden become Ellsbury. We'll have to live with his great defense, speed and high strikeout rate.

takealeake
01-12-2012, 03:59 PM
I think Arroyo HAS to step up this year. Cueto and Latos should be rock solid, and Leake should really start to progress this year.

Arroyo signed this big contract and proceeded to go out ans stink it up with a 5 plus ERA. Not only that, but his lowest inning output since 2004. Hopefully it was just an off year because the stuff about mono and supposedly his hand and all that. We need him to shore up this rotation so we're solid 1 thru 4.

NCCardfan
01-12-2012, 04:36 PM
The key is Dusty. Let's hope he doesn't burn out the bullpen like he did in 2011.

Pure truth right there folks. Dusty will burn up pitchers like there's no tomorrow.

Rolen is good, no doubt about it but Francisco is the Reds hot corner man and Rolen is 1 injury from calling it a career IMO.

DGullett35
01-12-2012, 04:45 PM
Rolen healthy is key but without a 4th OF Heisey and/or Stubbs has to have a career year.

OGB
01-12-2012, 05:08 PM
I have to agree with OGB, with a little more run support for Cueto at the top of the rotation Homer Bailey becomes the guy that if he reaches his potential this season it could really put the Reds over the top in the division. Its also imperative without Volzquez and Wood to fall back on that Bailey remain healthy as much as possible and limit those short dreadful outings.

You bring up a good point that I didn't mention in my initial post. Homer has never really shown the ability to stay healthy. He hasn't had major injury problems, but over the past 3 seasons, he's made 20, 19, and 22 starts. Homer needs to develop more consistency and durability.
Last season Cueto had 18 quality starts out of 24, Leake had 18 out of 26, Homer only had 13 out of 22. In his 13 quality starts, his ERA was 2.04. We need more of that and less 4 IP, 12 hits, 9 ER like he put up against the Mets.

OGB
01-12-2012, 05:21 PM
I think many here are unvaluing the impact a healthy and productive Rolen brings to this franchise. This idea that Juan can step in and be a better option at 3rd to me is laughable at this point. Maybe in a season or two, but this year with question mark at 2nd base attitude wise, The youthfulness behind the plate and in teh OF, you need a stablizing player on the field producing to keep the team steady and that is what Rolen brings that no other every day player on this roster brings.

I think you are overvaluing how much Rolen will contribute even if he is healthy. Assuming he stays healthy, Rolen should not play more than 60% of the time to begin with. If he plays more often than that, odds are he ends up getting hurt. If he plays more than that and manages not to get hurt, he'll be worn down and ineffective come Sept/Oct like he was in 2010. He might as well have been on the DL at the end of that season because his bat was so unproductive.
Aside from Phillips/Votto/Hanigan, I think the stabilizing play on offense needs to come from Chris Heisey, Drew Stubbs, and Jay Bruce; who have 217, 350, and 514 games of big league experience, respectively. They will also be 27, 27, and 25 years old when the season kicks off.
This is both a young/inexperienced team at 2 positions, SS and C. The other players have no excuse but to produce; they are the veterans.

brm7675
01-12-2012, 08:44 PM
what is laughable is the fantasy that rolen can still play

We won't know until we see.

nux fan
01-12-2012, 11:16 PM
stop arguing about everything take your rolen and kiss em goodbye llok at the playoff performacne take rolen and stubbs and send him away

foamy2001
01-13-2012, 02:44 AM
The Reds OF combined for 536 strikeouts last season. That needs to lessen.

I stopped reading the thread after this...

I think between Francisco, Cairo and Frazier (if he makes the team,) they have the players at third even w/o Rolen. Bruce and Stubbs need to strikeout less... that would take care of much of this team's offensive problems (but they still finished tied for seventh in runs scored in the MLB last year.)

brad1176
01-13-2012, 10:09 AM
Cut down on the K's and make more contact. I doubt this will happen under Baker though, he encourages everyone to be aggressive at the plate and that doesn't work with young players.

alett12
01-13-2012, 03:22 PM
I think Rolen has a precence in the lineup that helps this team win. The stats back that up, someone put them on here in a previous post so i wont go back and put them on again but solid stats like those you can't argue with nor can sabermetrics show them.