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Alpha Zero
01-16-2012, 03:45 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/reds-sign-dioner-navarro.html

It's a minor league contract. Navarro has been pretty bad outside of a great 2008 with the Rays. It's a solid depth signing, and Dioner will pair well with Corky at Louisville until Tucker Barnhart is ready for AAA.

redsfanmia
01-16-2012, 04:05 PM
I would rather have Corky as my AAA emergency catcher.

texasdave
01-16-2012, 04:17 PM
How is a guy that is as crappy as Navarro a solid depth signing? Per Fangraphs he has been BELOW replacement level the past three seasons. I suppose lightning could always strike twice in the same place. I agree that if a catcher has to be brought up from AAA it should be Corky.

Who Dey Time
01-16-2012, 04:31 PM
How is a guy that is as crappy as Navarro a solid depth signing? Per Fangraphs he has been BELOW replacement level the past three seasons. I suppose lightning could always strike twice in the same place. I agree that if a catcher has to be brought up from AAA it should be Corky.

This is nothing more than a warm body for spring training. Nothing to see here.

texasdave
01-16-2012, 04:35 PM
This is nothing more than a warm body for spring training. Nothing to see here.

They could have gotten a warm body for Spring Training for less than 800K (with another 200K in potential bonuses).

Nathan
01-16-2012, 04:48 PM
They could have gotten a warm body for Spring Training for less than 800K (with another 200K in potential bonuses).

800k if he's on the 40 man roster. Don't think that's happening.

texasdave
01-16-2012, 04:55 PM
800k if he's on the 40 man roster. Don't think that's happening.

I don't see where it written that it is a split contract where he gets one amount for the minors and another for the majors. All I see is that he inked a contract for 800K with a potential of pushing that up to a million.

From FayBlog:


The Reds today announced that catcher Dioner Navarro was signed to a minor league contract with an invitation to Major League spring training camp. The spring roster is at 53 players.
Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reported that the Redsí Navarro deal is for $800,000 plus $200,000 in incentives.

Alpha Zero
01-16-2012, 05:09 PM
How is a guy that is as crappy as Navarro a solid depth signing? Per Fangraphs he has been BELOW replacement level the past three seasons. I suppose lightning could always strike twice in the same place. I agree that if a catcher has to be brought up from AAA it should be Corky.

I still think it's solid depth. We're talking about our fourth string catcher here, so it's probably not worth arguing over. Maybe $800k is a bit much since he has been pretty bad for about 3 years now, but Navarro is only 28 and has significant big league experience (some of it very good). I think that's somewhat useful, especially since the Reds don't have anyone really close to being ready to catch major league pitching behind Corky.

Alpha Zero
01-16-2012, 05:18 PM
I guess we should also consider that this deal might be a precursor to a trade involving Hanigan. I really hope that it isn't because I love Hanigan's receiving skills and think he's extremely valuable to the Reds, but it is at least a possibility.

Chris Sabowned
01-16-2012, 10:04 PM
I hope we do not trade Hanigan yet. At least not until Meso has proven he can be THE guy every day at catcher.

texasdave
01-17-2012, 02:47 AM
I guess we should also consider that this deal might be a precursor to a trade involving Hanigan. I really hope that it isn't because I love Hanigan's receiving skills and think he's extremely valuable to the Reds, but it is at least a possibility.

Don't even joke about Hanigan getting traded please. Assuming another catcher didn't come back in the deal; the Reds, hypothetically, will be losing Hernandez, Hanigan and Grandal since the end of the season and replacing them with Dioner Navarro. Not good.

Alpha Zero
01-17-2012, 10:38 AM
Don't even joke about Hanigan getting traded please. Assuming another catcher didn't come back in the deal; the Reds, hypothetically, will be losing Hernandez, Hanigan and Grandal since the end of the season and replacing them with Dioner Navarro. Not good.

Oh, I agree completely. Trading Hanigan would be a very bad move at this point in time. His value to the Reds is much higher than his perceived trade value. He's a great defensive backstop, and he isn't useless with the bat either. I love me some Hanigan.

I was just tossing out the possibility. It looks like there's nothing to it since the Reds just signed Ludwick to fill out the 40 man roster.

rgslone
01-17-2012, 11:53 PM
I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about Navarro, because I don't. However, given his MLB experience and assuming that he's a good defensive catcher, then I would have to agree with the OP. He provides catching depth at AAA, which appears to be needed now. Unless you believe that the money used to sign him resulted in the Reds inability to add a player they wanted to add, then I can't see any downside.

texasdave
01-18-2012, 01:09 AM
Since, one would assume, Corky Miller is going to be the first catcher recalled if something happens to either Hanigan or Mesoraco; then, essentially, Dioner Navarro becomes Corky's backup. And paying 800K to backup Miller seems excessive for a small-market team. While looking into Navarro's defensive abilities I ran across this article. Not very encouraging.

Here are a couple of the lowlights. The link follows.


The rookie manager said Friday that the "philosophical differences" he had with the departed Dioner Navarro concerned the catcher's work ethic — or lack thereof. Navarro, who was on a one-year, $1-million contract, was designated for assignment Tuesday.


Navarro's defense had also become an issue, in particular his throwing and blocking of pitches in the dirt.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/26/sports/la-sp-0827-dodgers-fyi-20110827

Here is another article from the LA Times.


DIONER NAVARRO, 27, catcher
Final 2011 stats: .193, five homers, 17 RBI, .276 on-base and .324 slugging percentages, seven errors.
Contract status: Free as a bird.
The good: Two of his five homers won games. Ah, that’s just about it.
The bad: Everything else? OK, that’s a bit harsh, but maybe only a bit.
He could not hit, which apparently came as a surprise to no one but the Dodgers. He was sporadic behind the plate. He did not work hard. He took up space that belonged to A.J. Ellis, who could have used the experience now that he’s in place to be the Dodgers’ primary catcher in 2012. And the Dodgers paid Navarro $1 million, even though one else seemed interested.What’s next: Navarro is open for business. Of course, he’s been open for business since the Dodgers released him Aug. 23. Wonder if they figured out why no one picked him up?He’ll only be 28 in February but his career looks over.
The take: Imagine the shock — shock, I say — that Navarro did not pan out. General Manager Ned Colletti has a thing about his backups being veterans (see: Matt Treanor), but this was a poor idea from the moment it formed as the smallest kernel of a thought.
Navarro had one good fluke season in his seven major-league seasons. Otherwise, he’s proven a major disappointment. He hit just .194 for the Rays in 2010, then got churlish about not being added to their postseason roster.He came back to the Dodgers last season and hit .193. He was a consistent fellow. Though he never proved a problem in the clubhouse, his lack of dedication to his difficult position finally proved his undoing with the Dodgers.The day after they cut him, Manager Don Mattingly let it be known he was disappointed Navarro had failed to put in the work and time required to be a good player. So to his list of failings, add work ethic. Maybe being cut hit home with Navarro. Maybe he gets a non-roster invite to some team, puts in the work and makes a club. And maybe not.

And maybe he gets paid 800K to backup Corky Miller down on the farm.

Seems as if you are gonna sign a catcher to provide AAA depth you would want one with a good attitude and a strong work ethic.

Reds
01-18-2012, 04:27 AM
And maybe he gets paid 800K to backup Corky Miller down on the farm.


:laugh::lol::laugh:

man, that piece from the paper made it sound personal. like, this guy sucks. i had to endure it ****. we've signed a talentless monster, and likely overpaid him. :p

Who is his agent?

bounty37h
01-18-2012, 10:00 AM
Since, one would assume, Corky Miller is going to be the first catcher recalled if something happens to either Hanigan or Mesoraco; then, essentially, Dioner Navarro becomes Corky's backup. And paying 800K to backup Miller seems excessive for a small-market team. While looking into Navarro's defensive abilities I ran across this article. Not very encouraging.

Here are a couple of the lowlights. The link follows.





http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/26/sports/la-sp-0827-dodgers-fyi-20110827

Here is another article from the LA Times.



And maybe he gets paid 800K to backup Corky Miller down on the farm.

Seems as if you are gonna sign a catcher to provide AAA depth you would want one with a good attitude and a strong work ethic.

Ugh, that is concerning, but this article could have been used for Ramon when we tradedd for him-he was becoming known for bad work ethic and lazy play in Balti but had a renewel when he got here-lets hope this is true inthis case as well.

The DARK
01-19-2012, 01:23 AM
It seems Corky has unfortunately had his last hurrah in the majors; he hit .200 last season in AAA in less than 200 plate appearances. This guy is a pretty ugly solution for a AAA reclamation/3rd backup, but i guess it's slim pickings out there.

brad1176
01-19-2012, 08:19 AM
Let's see, the Reds sign Brian Esposito, Dioner Navarro, and have Corky all at AAA. Mark Riggins is signed to be minor league pitching coordinater and he was the Cubs pitching coach this past season. (Riggins is from my hometown, and it's great to have him in the Reds org.)
I'm purely guessing here, but I'm wondering if Riggins (who was a lefty pitcher) and Esposito (who is widely known to be good with young pitchers and is considered a coach) will be assigned to almost exclusively work with Aroldis, get him ready for the rotation. The Navarro signing in conjunction with the others got me to thinking this might be what's happening.

joshua
01-20-2012, 11:06 PM
I think Hanigan is under rated. .275/.371/.368 career numbers. He'll obviously get most of the starts this year while Mes gets his feet under him...but even if we didn't have Mes, I would love Hanigan catching for the forseeable future. One of my favorite Reds

redsfanmia
01-23-2012, 10:48 AM
It seems Corky has unfortunately had his last hurrah in the majors; he hit .200 last season in AAA in less than 200 plate appearances. This guy is a pretty ugly solution for a AAA reclamation/3rd backup, but i guess it's slim pickings out there.

I bet that Corky will be a coach in the minor league system after he retires and would not be shocked if he is a manager for the Reds at some point.

IamRV
01-23-2012, 10:56 AM
I think Hanigan is under rated. .275/.371/.368 career numbers. He'll obviously get most of the starts this year while Mes gets his feet under him...but even if we didn't have Mes, I would love Hanigan catching for the forseeable future. One of my favorite Reds

QFT

The guy's a winner.

BLEEDS
01-23-2012, 10:59 PM
You do realize that $800K is only if he makes the majors...

Spring Training fluff, Triple A bullpen catcher.

Move on.
Nothing to see here.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

alett12
01-25-2012, 02:04 PM
Personaly, I like the signing just because of his 2008 season where he hit .308 even though he only had 54 RBIs and 8 HRs or something like that. Low risk, high reward if he works out kind of like Russel Martin did for the Bombers last year.