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View Full Version : One more move?



bcmachine
01-17-2012, 01:14 AM
Anyone else think that there might be one more move in store? Above and beyond an infielder (it's assumed it will probably be Theriot). Bringing in Manny Ramirez as a potential pinch-hitter etc might add an extra bat. Cespedes looks off the radar now, though, although who knows if the purse strings are opened up a little bit more what could happen...

alett12
01-17-2012, 01:00 PM
I would prefer keppinger over theriot. Fans loved kep when he was in cinci and he is a great contact hitter who can spell phillips, rolen, and cozart on thier days off.

dubc47834
01-17-2012, 01:37 PM
JUST SAY NO TO MANNY!!!!! He is a problem as an everyday player. Then to have him as a pinch hitter. He goes back to being Manny by the end of April. I like Keppinger, think he would be a solid pick up.

Alpha Zero
01-17-2012, 02:02 PM
I think the Reds and Jocketty are done for the off season. They need to settle their arbitration cases and may sign a few more guys to minor league deals, but that's it. The Ludwick signing filled the 40 man roster, and I doubt that the Reds will drop anybody off of it to pick up another player.

alett12
01-17-2012, 02:12 PM
Who ever signs manny is a DA though it wouldn't surprise me if dusty wanted him.

NorrisHopper30
01-17-2012, 02:28 PM
I would prefer keppinger over theriot. Fans loved kep when he was in cinci and he is a great contact hitter who can spell phillips, rolen, and cozart on thier days off.

who cares if you make contact if you only get on base 30% of the time.

Red in Atl
01-17-2012, 02:39 PM
I would prefer keppinger over theriot. Fans loved kep when he was in cinci and he is a great contact hitter who can spell phillips, rolen, and cozart on thier days off.

Would love to see Kepp back in a Reds uni. Big plus over Theriot. I think he'd love to come back.

Come on Walt, bring back the fan favorite.

tedies
01-17-2012, 03:21 PM
Would love to see Kepp back in a Reds uni. Big plus over Theriot. I think he'd love to come back.

Come on Walt, bring back the fan favorite.

yea cause i have a kepp jersey thats just not getting use, although he probably wouldn't get #27 back because of Rolen haha

Rich
01-17-2012, 04:48 PM
Let's bring Freel out of retirement!! :thumbup:

will5979
01-17-2012, 05:44 PM
Let's bring Freel out of retirement!! :thumbup:

Well since we are considering bringing some fellas out of retirement we could use a shortstop, and a captain.

We haven't given the #11 to anyone else since he left.

It always bothered me that he finished with 198 hrs and 960 rbis anyway. A good solid 7 hr and 42 rbi season will give him more HOF credentials with 205 hrs and 1002 rbis!

sdwagers
01-17-2012, 08:53 PM
everyone keeps saying sign Ryan Theriot... I say we're done and let 's get started beating up on the NL central !

dMaus14
01-18-2012, 11:54 AM
I think we should sign either Theriot or Keppinger for a couple of reasons. Both are proven Vets that aren't pass their prime. Both can play multiple positions in the infield to keep everyone fresh. If Cozart was to get hurt for a prolonged period of time, I would feel more comfortable with Theriot or Keppinger at SS not Janish or Frazier. Keppinger is a former Red and Theriot has played for winners as did Orlando Cabrera. Just $.02

DGullett35
01-18-2012, 12:02 PM
It's prolly going to be Theriot but what about bringing O-Cab back or even Vizquel. they both would be cheap, and we really only need someone who can play some defense. Janish was supposed to be a D kinda guy but he was close to horrible defensively last year.

texasdave
01-18-2012, 12:10 PM
It's prolly going to be Theriot but what about bringing O-Cab back or even Vizquel. they both would be cheap, and we really only need someone who can play some defense. Janish was supposed to be a D kinda guy but he was close to horrible defensively last year.

Paul Janish was not even close to being a horrible defensive player last year. Where are these misconceptions born?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=nl&qual=700&type=1&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&sort=21,d

If you look at all NL shortstops that played 700 or more innings - roughly half a season's worth - you will find Paul Janish at the top of the list defensively. Oh, by the way, if you are looking for Ryan Theriot he is at the bottom.

Red in Atl
01-18-2012, 12:18 PM
My vote again is for Kepp. With the great off season Walt brought us, we actually have a great team going into 2012.

2B B.Phillips
SS Z.Cozart
1B J.Votto
LF Ludwick/Heisey
RF J.Bruce
3B S.Rolen
C D.Mesoraco
CF D.Stubbs
Pitcher

BP will channel Larkin as a leader and lead off guy. Cozart will continue to hit to contact and be fine in the two hole. Ludwick and Heisey will break up the lefties that Dusty loves so much. Rolen is past his prime and would have less pressure in the 6 hole. And I love the idea of Stubbs batting 8th.

SP1 J.Cueto
SP2 M.Latos
SP3 B.Arroyo
SP4 H.Bailey
SP5 M.Leake

Latos might end up being our number one, but Cueto deserves it for now. Arroyo will bounce back being healthy. Love mixing the heat and the nibblers and giving the nod to Bronson as the vetaran. And who wouldn't love a #5 to be as good as Leake? Chapman will learn how to be a starter at AAA and be in the mix after June.

BP S.LeCure
BP L.Ondrusek
BP J.Arredondo
BP B.Bray
BP N.Masset
SU S.Marshall
CL R.Madson

That bullpen is sick. Best since the Nasty Boys.

BN R.Hanigan C
BN Ludwick/Heisey OF
BN M.Cairo IF/OF
BN J.Francisco IF
BN J. Keppinger IF

Kepp would shore up this bench by playing all infield positions and the guy has always been able to hit. Will fit nicely in the two hole to back up Cozart.

I really like this team.

SpanishArmada
01-18-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm still surprised no one has brought up Omar Vizquel's name. He has said he wants to play another year. Switch hitter and would be a great mentor to Cozart.

IamRV
01-18-2012, 04:35 PM
Kepp brings nothing that Frazier doesn't trump.

Stubbs absolute kills LHP and his numbers in the 2 hole are as follow:

Drew Stubbs 2011 AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
vs. Left 113 .319 .418 .478 .896
vs. Right 491 .226 .298 .338 .636
Batting #1 408 .250 .329 .373 .702
Batting #2 22 .364 .462 .500 .962
Batting #6 127 .220 .291 .323 .614
Batting #7 31 .161 .235 .290 .525
Batting #8 11 .273 .333 .455 .788
Batting #9 5 .200 .333 .400 .733

2B B.Phillips
CF D.Stubbs/Heisey
1B J.Votto
LF Ludwick
RF J.Bruce
3B S.Rolen/Francisco
C Hanigan/Mesoraco
SS Z.Cozart
Pitcher

Stubbs and Heisey should split the time in Center at worst and IMO Heisey should get the majority of all AB's against rightys.

Chris Heisey 2011 AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
vs. Left 61 .197 .258 .295 .553
vs. Right 218 .271 .324 .541 .865
Batting #1 66 .242 .311 .576 .887
Batting #2 14 .357 .400 .857 1.257
Batting #3 1 .000 .000 .000 .000
Batting #4 7 .143 .333 .143 .476
Batting #5 52 .269 .296 .577 .873
Batting #6 61 .213 .300 .377 .677
Batting #7 22 .182 .250 .182 .432
Batting #8 4 .500 .500 .500 1.000
Batting #9 52 .308 .321 .500 .821

dMaus14
01-18-2012, 07:47 PM
What does Kepp bring that Frazier trumps?

Veteran presence? Nope

Better career stats? Nope

Better projections for 2012? Depends on what you want? BA and OBP then Keppinger wins

The ability to play multiple positions? Frazier can play the OF but isn't that why we signed Ludwick? And if Cozart goes down for a prolonged period of time I'd rather have Kepp at SS than Frazier.

The only thing I think Frazier has an edge on is that he is younger and cheaper but not better.

alett12
01-19-2012, 08:51 AM
What does Kepp bring that Frazier trumps?

Veteran presence? Nope

Better career stats? Nope

Better projections for 2012? Depends on what you want? BA and OBP then Keppinger wins

The ability to play multiple positions? Frazier can play the OF but isn't that why we signed Ludwick? And if Cozart goes down for a prolonged period of time I'd rather have Kepp at SS than Frazier.

The only thing I think Frazier has an edge on is that he is younger and cheaper but not better.

The moves I would make to get keppinger to fit would be to get him on the 40 man dump carlos Fischer the guy has to be almost out of options anyways then demote janish to Louisville to get him on the 25 man that way you still have frazier's versatility on the 25 man roster and you have your veteran back up.

DGullett35
01-19-2012, 10:16 AM
Paul Janish was not even close to being a horrible defensive player last year. Where are these misconceptions born?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=nl&qual=700&type=1&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&sort=21,d

If you look at all NL shortstops that played 700 or more innings - roughly half a season's worth - you will find Paul Janish at the top of the list defensively. Oh, by the way, if you are looking for Ryan Theriot he is at the bottom.


I see where your coming from but if I remember correctly janish didnt look that spectacular in the field in the beginning of last year when he was getting most of his playing time. in fact I remember a couple games where he booted some easy balls. He started 80 games last year and played in 103(just at SS) and had 10 Errors. thats not spectacular. that would be 20 errors for the whole season. Omar Vizquel used to play 150 games a year and have only 5 errors for the year. Thats a GREAT defensive SS. He will make the routine play 9/10 times but you never see Janish make the spectacular plays. Alls I'm saying is that hes not as great defensively as everyone seems to think, and IMO thats the misconception. For a guy known for his defense its not as great as it should be. he may have had a nice minor league career defensively but it hasn't totally translated into the show. IMHO Id rather have Theriot thats all. and Theriot isnt known for his defense. the guy can handle a bat

alett12
01-19-2012, 11:20 AM
I think Janish's bat needs to improve if he's going to stay on the big league roster. His defense is good but not as good as what it is thought to be.

powersackers
01-20-2012, 02:33 PM
Unless we release/option Janish there is no room on the 25 or 40 man for Theriot or Keppinger. And that's with Frazier starting at AAA.

WildcatFan
01-20-2012, 03:00 PM
Keep Ryan Theriot and his -8.5 UZR far away from Cincinnati's left side of the infield. You don't need a good bat in the shortstop position, especially with the weapons the Reds have almost everywhere else on the field. Janish is a GREAT fielder, and if you judge a shortstop by his number of errors, you're severely missing the point. Janish gets to balls that Vizquel, Keppinger, and especially Theriot have no shot at, so he has great value as a late-innings replacement and spot starter. I don't understand people's fascination with losing defensive ability for a little bit of offense at the most important defensive position on the field. Plus, there's a very small chance Janish has the horrid year at the plate he did last year. It'll most likely be somewhere between his last two years. Not good, but not so bad that you can't have him on the roster.

alett12
01-23-2012, 11:26 AM
Keep Ryan Theriot and his -8.5 UZR far away from Cincinnati's left side of the infield. You don't need a good bat in the shortstop position, especially with the weapons the Reds have almost everywhere else on the field. Janish is a GREAT fielder, and if you judge a shortstop by his number of errors, you're severely missing the point. Janish gets to balls that Vizquel, Keppinger, and especially Theriot have no shot at, so he has great value as a late-innings replacement and spot starter. I don't understand people's fascination with losing defensive ability for a little bit of offense at the most important defensive position on the field. Plus, there's a very small chance Janish has the horrid year at the plate he did last year. It'll most likely be somewhere between his last two years. Not good, but not so bad that you can't have him on the roster.

Tell me. When Keppinger was a Red and starting at short, Did you havea any problem with his defense? I know i didn't and personally if Janish could hit .260 i would say start him but he can't and i'm not sure with the way the game is anymore if you can afford to have someone who doesn't hit .250 starting no matter how good of defense they can play.

dMaus14
01-23-2012, 11:55 AM
Up until the end of the season who really values late inning defensive replacements until September and the playoffs? Not a lot of teams. Valuing a late inning defensive replacement is like running your offense around the sacrifice bunt. There's no real need for it until playoff time.

alett12
01-23-2012, 02:14 PM
Up until the end of the season who really values late inning defensive replacements until September and the playoffs? Not a lot of teams. Valuing a late inning defensive replacement is like running your offense around the sacrifice bunt. There's no real need for it until playoff time.

If they want someone to bunt i think they need to bring back Hopper. If nothing else let him teach Stubbs to bunt.

WildcatFan
01-23-2012, 03:08 PM
Tell me. When Keppinger was a Red and starting at short, Did you havea any problem with his defense? I know i didn't and personally if Janish could hit .260 i would say start him but he can't and i'm not sure with the way the game is anymore if you can afford to have someone who doesn't hit .250 starting no matter how good of defense they can play.

I did, although his first year when he only played a third of the games or so, he was hitting more than well enough to justify him there with Phillips at 2B and Encarnacion on the verge of breaking out at 3B (although we know now how that turned out). When he was the full-time shortstop in '08, not only was he an extremely limited fielder, he couldn't hit. He's been a mostly below-average hitter since then, and nobody even plays him at short anymore. He's a second baseman.

alett12
01-24-2012, 11:27 AM
I did, although his first year when he only played a third of the games or so, he was hitting more than well enough to justify him there with Phillips at 2B and Encarnacion on the verge of breaking out at 3B (although we know now how that turned out). When he was the full-time shortstop in '08, not only was he an extremely limited fielder, he couldn't hit. He's been a mostly below-average hitter since then, and nobody even plays him at short anymore. He's a second baseman.

I was impressed with his numbers at the plate the last few years with houston and lasst year with the giants hitting around .298 coming off the bench which is what he would be doing in cinci

WildcatFan
01-24-2012, 04:36 PM
My point is, he's not a shortstop. We might as well be talking about signing Carlos Guillen or Aaron Miles to play short. They've done it before; they're just not good at it.

alett12
01-24-2012, 07:29 PM
My point is, he's not a shortstop. We might as well be talking about signing Carlos Guillen or Aaron Miles to play short. They've done it before; they're just not good at it.

Ok, then how is Theriot any better?

SweetLou1990
01-24-2012, 07:40 PM
everyone keeps saying sign Ryan Theriot... I say we're done and let 's get started beating up on the NL central !

It can't come soon enough. The cards lost Pujols, the Brewers lost Fielder and the Cubs are still the Cubs!

WildcatFan
01-25-2012, 11:24 AM
Ok, then how is Theriot any better?

Theriot's not better at all--I don't want him either. I want Janish to be the backup to Cozart, with Frazier the emergency third guy if one of the first two go down.

alett12
01-25-2012, 11:33 AM
I think the reds have to be the favorites to win the division going into this year, even with the cards getting wainright back and bringing in beltran

IamRV
01-25-2012, 02:04 PM
Theriot's not better at all--I don't want him either. I want Janish to be the backup to Cozart, with Frazier the emergency third guy if one of the first two go down.

I agree but differ slightly. I too want no part of Theriot but I'd like Frazier on the big club and Janish stashed in Louisville. With the addition of Harris it almost dooms Frasier to Louisville as well. Historically in recent seasons the Reds have only carried 5 bench players sans pitchers. Three of those spots are spoken for by Cairo, Mesoraco and Heisey. The remaining two spots will be filled by the group of Francisco, Frazier, Janish and Harris.

I would hope the Reds keep Francisco on the big club but if not it won't hurt him to play every day at third and get all those AB's. IMO Janish should be kept in Louisville for a call up in the event there is an injury to Cozart causing him to miss multiple games. Leaving one of Harris and Frazier to fill the remaining spot. Again, it wouldn't hurt Frazier to play every day but I would prefer him on the big club.

However, my expectations are that they choose to keep Janish and Harris who both bring no pop and little offense off the bench.

alett12
01-25-2012, 02:18 PM
I agree but differ slightly. I too want no part of Theriot but I'd like Frazier on the big club and Janish stashed in Louisville. With the addition of Harris it almost dooms Frasier to Louisville as well. Historically in recent seasons the Reds have only carried 5 bench players sans pitchers. Three of those spots are spoken for by Cairo, Mesoraco and Heisey. The remaining two spots will be filled by the group of Francisco, Frazier, Janish and Harris.

I would hope the Reds keep Francisco on the big club but if not it won't hurt him to play every day at third and get all those AB's. IMO Janish should be kept in Louisville for a call up in the event there is an injury to Cozart causing him to miss multiple games. Leaving one of Harris and Frazier to fill the remaining spot. Again, it wouldn't hurt Frazier to play every day but I would prefer him on the big club.

However, my expectations are that they choose to keep Janish and Harris who both bring no pop and little offense off the bench.

I agree with Fazier backing up Cozart but i disagree with the willy harris comment, they would need to clear a spot off the 40 man to get him on.