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WVRed
01-17-2012, 11:45 PM
Have at it.

Hoosier Red
01-18-2012, 09:40 AM
Thank you sir. Again as we were discussing at the end of the last thread, tonight's game is important simply because it's one they can't afford to lose. If IU is to go 8-1 or 7-2 at home, which is certainly within the realm of possibility, then it would only need to go 4-5 on the road. The Hoosiers already have 1 road win, but after tonight, its hard to pick out any specific games I'd feel comfortable picking with any certainty that IU wins on the road.

traderumor
01-18-2012, 11:11 AM
I read earlier in the year that the Big 10 is not that strong top to bottom. The way conference play is going, it looks like a very balanced league, with some very good teams struggling on the road. Michigan State has lost two in a row on the road, Ohio State has lost two road games. I think the league is stronger than first thought, with some teams improving that once looked like also rans.

Hoosier Red
01-18-2012, 12:59 PM
I read earlier in the year that the Big 10 is not that strong top to bottom. The way conference play is going, it looks like a very balanced league, with some very good teams struggling on the road. Michigan State has lost two in a row on the road, Ohio State has lost two road games. I think the league is stronger than first thought, with some teams improving that once looked like also rans.

I agree. One of the reasons I picked IU to make the tournament at the beginning of the year was that I expected the league to drop off a little bit. But I don't think that's happened. If anything top to bottom the league is every bit as strong as the last few years.

By the way traderumor, I meant to respond to your comment about my blog post taking pot shots at other programs but the thread got carried away. If that's the way it came off, it honestly wasn't my intent. As you and others pointed out, Indiana fans sometimes have a holier than thou attitude about our basketball.

The point of the post was that if IU's fan base is in fact better than other fan bases, fans shouldn't be ready to give a senior the boot just because there is more talent coming through.

The pot shots at Notre Dame and Kentucky were 1)fun and 2) meant to show some negative perceptions of those fan bases that IU fans didn't want to become known for.

traderumor
01-18-2012, 01:56 PM
I agree. One of the reasons I picked IU to make the tournament at the beginning of the year was that I expected the league to drop off a little bit. But I don't think that's happened. If anything top to bottom the league is every bit as strong as the last few years.

By the way traderumor, I meant to respond to your comment about my blog post taking pot shots at other programs but the thread got carried away. If that's the way it came off, it honestly wasn't my intent. As you and others pointed out, Indiana fans sometimes have a holier than thou attitude about our basketball.

The point of the post was that if IU's fan base is in fact better than other fan bases, fans shouldn't be ready to give a senior the boot just because there is more talent coming through.

The pot shots at Notre Dame and Kentucky were 1)fun and 2) meant to show some negative perceptions of those fan bases that IU fans didn't want to become known for.Well as a Buckeyes fan, it is always interesting to see fans of other programs perceptions. But those type of broadbrush generalizations about fans of certain programs are just better left for lower level discussions than I think you desire to engage in. Not that you were asking for my advice, but I'm a fan, not a devotee.

Hoosier Red
01-18-2012, 09:59 PM
Absolutely terrrible.

Todd Gack
01-18-2012, 10:11 PM
Absolutely terrrible.

Ditto. They controlled most of the game and lose like that? This team is now in jeopardy of making the tournament. I realize there's a lot of time left, but man, bad losses are piling up.

traderumor
01-18-2012, 10:25 PM
Looks like the Bucks will be in for another road tussle Saturday

Playadlc
01-18-2012, 10:35 PM
We are in trouble.

gilpdawg
01-18-2012, 11:31 PM
Horrible loss. Just horrible. I'm disgusted.

George Foster
01-19-2012, 12:44 AM
Horrible loss. Just horrible. I'm disgusted.

Don't give up yet boys...you guys are making good strides this year. You must have a 500 record in the league to make the tournament which is doable ...the win over my cats help if Indiana is on the bubble. @"

Todd Gack
01-19-2012, 08:43 AM
Don't give up yet boys...you guys are making good strides this year. You must have a 500 record in the league to make the tournament which is doable ...the win over my cats help if Indiana is on the bubble. @"

I knew I shouldn't have trusted Crean. I still wonder about that guy. (Did I open up an old can of worms?)

Hoosier Red
01-19-2012, 09:16 AM
Don't give up yet boys...you guys are making good strides this year. You must have a 500 record in the league to make the tournament which is doable ...the win over my cats help if Indiana is on the bubble. @"

Really even at 7-11 or 8-10, that would be 20 wins with 2 wins over top 5 teams.

It's hard to project though, they'll win if they play better than they have for the last 3 games, and I believe they will do that. I just don't know when.

bucksfan2
01-19-2012, 10:12 AM
Really even at 7-11 or 8-10, that would be 20 wins with 2 wins over top 5 teams.

It's hard to project though, they'll win if they play better than they have for the last 3 games, and I believe they will do that. I just don't know when.

Are good wins better than bad losses?

Both of IU's great wins were at home. I don't know how the committee will view those two wins as opposed to the poor losses.

FWIW I think IU is playing just about the way I thougth they would. They are a high teens to low 20ish ranked team. Not as good as they were ranked but not as bad as they are looking now.

Razor Shines
01-19-2012, 01:17 PM
FWIW I think IU is playing just about the way I thougth they would. They are a high teens to low 20ish ranked team. Not as good as they were ranked but not as bad as they are looking now.

Exactly. I don't understand the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth in this thread.

They're still learning to win on the road. Nebraska is a bad loss, for sure, but they're gonna still be somewhat volatile throughout this season.

I don't have any doubts about Crean. This team will still make the tourney and as stated above probably finish the season ranked anywhere from 15-25.

traderumor
01-20-2012, 02:07 PM
Can anyone win a road game? Illinois upset by Penn State last night.

Scrap Irony
01-20-2012, 04:04 PM
IU is going to have to have a winning record in their league. At least 8-8. And even with that, it's a crapshoot.

Hoosier Red
01-20-2012, 05:00 PM
IU is going to have to have a winning record in their league. At least 8-8. And even with that, it's a crapshoot.

Well they play 18 games, so it will be at least 9-9. ;) When you say it's a crapshoot, do you think it would be a crapshoot for IU to get in if it is 9-9?

I'd strongly disagree with that assessment. First if the Minnesota loss at home ends up being the 2nd worst loss on the resume, than Indiana will have only one truly bad loss in the eyes of the committee. Minnesota is likely to finish with at least a winning record overall.

My guess is if IU gets to 9-9 that will be good enough for 6th in the B1G Ten.
I'd be surprised to see a team which finishes below 6th in the conference jump over IU, as again IU had the best non-conference wins aside from perhaps Ohio State. And I'd be quite surprised if the tournament was too selective to include the 6th ranked team in the best conference(statistically) when that team is at worst 22-10(with a loss in the first round of the B1G Ten Tournament) and has wins over Kentucky, Ohio State, and Michigan.

Hoosier Red
01-20-2012, 05:05 PM
Exactly. I don't understand the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth in this thread.

They're still learning to win on the road. Nebraska is a bad loss, for sure, but they're gonna still be somewhat volatile throughout this season.

I don't have any doubts about Crean. This team will still make the tourney and as stated above probably finish the season ranked anywhere from 15-25.

I was actually more positive about the Nebraska game than the Minnesota one. IU played horrible against Minnesota for the whole game, and it was only through Minnesota's lack of ability to put them away that the Hoosiers even had a chance at the end.

I actually thought on the whole, the team played well for about 33 minutes on Wednesday. Now the Hoosiers just have to do a better job of finishing a team off when they have it on the ropes.

George Foster
01-20-2012, 09:23 PM
Very few teams get to the dance without at least a .500 record in their conference ....does not happen much... I want u guys to win out...it helps the cat's rpi;):D

gilpdawg
01-21-2012, 01:21 AM
Very few teams get to the dance without at least a .500 record in their conference ....does not happen much... I want u guys to win out...it helps the cat's rpi;):D

I think if they go 8-10 they would get in if they win a conference tourney game. But I think they will do better than that.

WMR
01-21-2012, 05:38 AM
I can't tell you what I would give to see IU as an 8-9 in our bracket. :D

I'm pulling for you guys just for that reason. ;)

Revering4Blue
01-21-2012, 10:17 AM
Can anyone win a road game? Illinois upset by Penn State last night.

That's the million dollar question. This article says it all.

http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/01/20/12/Unpredictability-reigns-in-Big-Ten-baske/landing.html?blockID=649762&feedID=3701


The Big Ten is ranked No. 1 in this week's RPI conference ratings. Nine Big Ten schools are in the RPI's top-50 team rankings.

Five are also ranked in the latest Associated Press poll - No. 6 Ohio State, No. 9 Michigan State, No. 11 Indiana, No. 20 Michigan and No. 22 Illinois.

CollegeRPI.com's latest NCAA Tournament projections list nine -- the five ranked teams plus Purdue, Wisconsin, Northwestern and Minnesota -- in the 68-team field as of now.

Izzo said he will be "shocked" if the regular-season champ doesn't lose at least four games.

"It could be more," he added. "I said at the beginning of the year, I think four or five."

Razor Shines
01-30-2012, 03:45 PM
Well outside of that Minn game, IU is pounding the teams at home that they should beat. That's not something you could say the last two seasons.


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WMR
01-30-2012, 04:14 PM
What's Crean's record on the road in the B1G so far at IU?

Razor Shines
01-30-2012, 05:00 PM
What's Crean's record on the road in the B1G so far at IU?

I think the only b10 road win he's had is at Penn St this year. So 1 and whatever.


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Hoosier Red
01-30-2012, 05:49 PM
I think the only b10 road win he's had is at Penn St this year. So 1 and whatever.


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Now now, no need to exagerrate. IU is 2-29 on the road since Crean took over. But in all reality, any record before last year is just trying to distort the current picture. And really, looking at the road losses this year is part of the equation too. The loss to Nebraska was bad no doubt. But even good IU teams are unlikely to win in East Lansing, Columbus, or Madison. Part of what makes good teams good is they defend their home court. They pound weaker opponents and do enough to beat quality ones.

IU has 4 road games left; @Michigan, @Purdue, @Iowa, and @Minnesota. If they take two of the four and win out at home(including beating Michigan State.) That will put them at 11-7 and in good shape for the tournament.

Razor Shines
02-02-2012, 03:47 PM
Well poop. 2-30.


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Razor Shines
02-06-2012, 02:40 PM
On second thought. I don't mind splitting those two road games. Thats probably pretty accurate as to where they are.


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Todd Gack
02-07-2012, 08:21 AM
Illinois up next. Crean always seems to play well vs them at home no matter how bad IU is.

Hoosier Red
02-07-2012, 10:25 AM
Yeah, this should be an interesting matchup. One thing I've noticed, despite the fact IU's not necessarily all that deep, they seem to play better in games where a lot of fouls are called.

It seems like whatever IU loses to foul trouble ends up being less significant than what the opponent loses. Against Kentucky, getting Anthony Davis out of the game was huge. Against tOSU, getting Sullinger and Craft out for stretches was also big. On the opposite end of the spectrum, when Purdue had Carrol go out with foul trouble really early on Saturday, they had absolutely nobody to play defense inside. The early fouls also caught up to them when Byrd fouled out with about 5 minutes to go.

Obviously that can be a double edged sword. Zeller only played 20 minutes against Wisconsin, but that seemed to be a game where IU was called for a lot more fouls. In the three big wins I mentioned, the two teams were called for a similar number of fouls. (Admittedly in the Purdue game, PU was called for 26 fouls to IU's 17, but many of those came in last two minutes.)

Razor Shines
02-13-2012, 03:00 PM
How many school girl crush IU fans are left out there? I assume most have committed suicide as a result of being devastated that IU is only ranked 18 and 20. The horror, the horror.


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fearofpopvol1
02-13-2012, 03:43 PM
I think IU set the bar high, maybe too high.

I do think they are a better team than what their record shows. Those Nebraska and Minnesota losses were awful, but they've looked better recently. If you take those 2 losses out, all of the losses they've had were on the road to ranked opponents. Hard to be too mad at that (save for the game in Wisconsin, which was close).

IU is still one of the best shooting and scoring teams in the country, both by points and field goal %. The rub has always been the rebounding and turnovers and those will likely continue to haunt them when they play good competition.

Hoosier Red
02-13-2012, 03:55 PM
I'd argue that the loss to Minnesota is the worst one of the season. And when the worst loss of the season is to a team that's currently projected to make the tournament, you're doing pretty well.

Even if you decide losing at Nebraska was the worst loss, there have been plenty of decent teams lose in Lincoln over the years. Never easy to win on the road.

traderumor
02-13-2012, 04:24 PM
How many school girl crush IU fans are left out there? I assume most have committed suicide as a result of being devastated that IU is only ranked 18 and 20. The horror, the horror.


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Ironically, the indignant responses smack of insecurity in your own conclusions.

Razor Shines
02-13-2012, 07:19 PM
Ironically, the indignant responses smack of insecurity in your own conclusions.

First how do you expect people to respond to name calling?

Second, no it doesn't. At all. That's the infuriating thing about your run of posts in this thread. We agree with how theyll probably end up. Outside shot at the sweet 16 but could also go home in the first weekend. Some how you think you're shocking us back to reality with your prediction when in we're actually like "yeah, seems about right. We're pretty psyched about it." We mainly disagreed on how dependent they are on the 3 ball, but we both think the end result will be pretty close to the same.


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Todd Gack
02-13-2012, 09:22 PM
I'd argue that the loss to Minnesota is the worst one of the season. And when the worst loss of the season is to a team that's currently projected to make the tournament, you're doing pretty well.

Even if you decide losing at Nebraska was the worst loss, there have been plenty of decent teams lose in Lincoln over the years. Never easy to win on the road.

Looking back, minny wasn't as bad as I thought. Minnesota was 0-4 in the conference and desperate for a win. They're now 5-7 in the conference. Not bad for starting out 0-4 including an OT loss @Whisky.

Nebraska was just awful. IU lead for 90% of the game and lost. Just a bad, bad, bad loss even if it was on the road.

fearofpopvol1
02-14-2012, 02:40 PM
First how do you expect people to respond to name calling?

Second, no it doesn't. At all. That's the infuriating thing about your run of posts in this thread. We agree with how theyll probably end up. Outside shot at the sweet 16 but could also go home in the first weekend. Some how you think you're shocking us back to reality with your prediction when in we're actually like "yeah, seems about right. We're pretty psyched about it." We mainly disagreed on how dependent they are on the 3 ball, but we both think the end result will be pretty close to the same.


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I would be truly shocked if IU went home in the first round.

Hoosier Red
02-16-2012, 09:25 AM
Narrowly avoided disaster last night against a team that really needed the win.

Nice game coming back for Verdell. Jordy played like it was his first time taking the court.
Oladipo continues to shine.

Hoosier Red
02-20-2012, 09:53 AM
U-G-L-Y. Of course IU's history at Carver-Hawkeye is even worse than its history at the old Barn. Not one of IU's finer moments.

fearofpopvol1
02-20-2012, 04:49 PM
1 step forward, 2 steps back. That has seemed to be the case largely in Big 10 play for IU this year. Time to crank it up.

Razor Shines
02-29-2012, 01:48 AM
1 step forward, 2 steps back. That has seemed to be the case largely in Big 10 play for IU this year. Time to crank it up.

I'd say tonight it was cranked up. Probably the best over all game IU has played this season.

traderumor
02-29-2012, 10:13 AM
Well, thank you, Hoosiers, just opened the door back up for the Buckeyes. IU is certainly a roller coaster ride this year.

A win for the Buckeyes tonight makes Sunday's finale with the Spartans for a share of the championship again.

Of course, I don't have a lot of confidence that they can handle a desperate NW team at Evanston, but they were desperate last week against Michigan and lost.

Playadlc
03-04-2012, 09:54 PM
Tom Crean has to be BT COY, right?

SunDeck
03-04-2012, 10:09 PM
Tom Crean has to be BT COY, right?

Has to be. He's been working his tail off not only to put a good team on the floor but also to rebuild the program and bring the IU family back together again. A friend of mine who works in Athletics told me a couple years ago the guy was really working all the former players, trying to convince them all to come down to Assembly Hall, to participate in events and support a return to the standards they felt had been missing in the Davis/Sampson era. Some of those guys had sworn off the program completely and several are in his corner now, returning to Bloomington occasionally to meet with the players. IU was in shambles when he got here and he's been a veritable Richard Simmons with his enthusiasm and determination. The guy deserves it.

Revering4Blue
03-04-2012, 10:14 PM
Big Ten COY?

Heck, why not National COY?

Scrap Irony
03-04-2012, 10:43 PM
No love for Bill Carmody at Northwestern?

gilpdawg
03-05-2012, 09:28 AM
No love for Bill Carmody at Northwestern?

If they make the tournament I'd not have a problem with that, but I think Crean is going to win, probably national as well.

fearofpopvol1
03-05-2012, 01:37 PM
Great win yesterday against a hot Purdue team. However, IU did not play a great 2nd half. Granted, they played beyond what one could have expected during the 1st half.

I know the Hoosiers love to play the uptempo game, but when you have a lead late and the score is close, you need to slow it down and burn some of the clock. I don't see IU doing that enough.

Still, it's so great to see a sweep of the Boilermarkers.

rdiersin
03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Still, it's so great to see a sweep of the Boilermarkers.

I might disagree with that part ;), but it was nice to have both teams good and the game somewhat relevant. Outside of that one year when Hummel was a freshman and IU had Gordon, it really hasn't been for a long time. I look forward to this rivalry in the next couple of years.

IU looked good and really is the better team this year. I might even have to root for them in the tourney. (I think I am going to be sick now)

rdiersin
03-05-2012, 02:11 PM
No love for Bill Carmody at Northwestern?

Why? He hasn't done anything special this year that they haven't done in the past several years. Outside of the Michigan State game, I don't see anything special. Crean deserves the credit more, IMO.

bucksfan2
03-05-2012, 03:38 PM
Tom Crean has to be BT COY, right?

I don't know. I think Izzo and Beline have taken their clubs to a place where very few thought they could be. Carmody is close to doing something Northwestern has never done before.

I think Crean gets it though.

SunDeck
03-05-2012, 04:24 PM
I might disagree with that part ;), but it was nice to have both teams good and the game somewhat relevant. Outside of that one year when Hummel was a freshman and IU had Gordon, it really hasn't been for a long time. I look forward to this rivalry in the next couple of years.

IU looked good and really is the better team this year. I might even have to root for them in the tourney. (I think I am going to be sick now)

I like it when both teams are in the top twenty, battling it out.

redsfanmia
03-05-2012, 04:27 PM
I like it when both teams are in the top twenty, battling it out.

The mid to late 80's and early 90's games were great. I think at that time basketball wise IU/Purdue had to be one of the best rivalries.

gilpdawg
03-05-2012, 08:21 PM
The mid to late 80's and early 90's games were great. I think at that time basketball wise IU/Purdue had to be one of the best rivalries.
I still remember the game in Bloomington in 88 when Knight benched a bunch of guys, because they were struggling a bit, Calloway and Smart mostly, and the bench guys got ahead of Purdue with Troy Lewis and Stephens and those guys something like 33-12 and barely held off a mega rally at the end. Good times.

Hoosier Red
03-06-2012, 07:39 PM
I don't know. I think Izzo and Beline have taken their clubs to a place where very few thought they could be. Carmody is close to doing something Northwestern has never done before.

I think Crean gets it though.

Izzo got the nod, but I'm not sure I agree that few thought he'd have a top 3team.

Similarly, while I've loved every minute of this teams bounce back to relevancy, in terms of exceeding expectations, IU did a little bit better than forecast. THey were picked in the pre-season to finish 9th and finished fifth. tMSU was picked to finish 4th and finished tied for 1st. Michigan was picked to finish 3rd, and likewise finished in the tie for first.

I get the line of thinking that it's rare for a coach who finished fifth to get coach of the year, but in my mind, Beilein had fewer "raw materials" to work with than Izzo.

Hoosier Red
03-09-2012, 12:48 PM
The worst news is confirmed, Verdell Jones III tore his ACL yesterday. Brutal blow for a kid that has endured his share of slings and arrows and was about to play in his first tournament. Hope the team takes the tough news and reacts positively.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7665281/indiana-hoosiers-verdell-jones-iii-acl-tear

Playadlc
03-11-2012, 08:35 PM
Gottlieb picking NMSU to beat IU is about as predictable as the sun coming up tomorrow.

Razor Shines
03-11-2012, 10:57 PM
I almost wish IU would have gotten hosed in their seeding, just so I could complain about it. It's been so long.


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Revering4Blue
03-17-2012, 11:02 PM
On to the Sweet 16. :beerme:

2002--the last Sweet 16 appearance--seems like a lifetime ago.

Joseph
03-17-2012, 11:18 PM
Rematch should be epic fellas [and ladies?].

Razor Shines
03-18-2012, 12:45 AM
Rematch should be epic fellas [and ladies?].

Is that a shot at me? You son of a B. j/k

I hope it's epic, but I have a sick feeling that it's going to get ugly.

I'm happy though. After the way things have gone at IU a sweet 16 run I consider a success.


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traderumor
03-18-2012, 10:39 AM
Well, so far only the red-headed stepchild UM has let the Big 10/12 down. At least now maybe their coaches know the difference between "Ohio" and "Ohio St." and that both are capable of kicking their butts.

Hoosier Red
03-18-2012, 11:05 AM
Is that a shot at me? You son of a B. j/k

I hope it's epic, but I have a sick feeling that it's going to get ugly.

I'm happy though. After the way things have gone at IU a sweet 16 run I consider a success.


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True, there's not any amount of points that IU could lose by this week that would make me think the season anything other than a gigantic success.

The one advantage IU is likely to enjoy is 100% of pressure is on Kentucky. If the game's close down the stretch, IU is less likely to tighten up.

SunDeck
03-18-2012, 12:33 PM
Jordan Hulls response to the VCU defense was practically unwatchable and I'm sure UK will note that in their preparation.

As for the game, IU has beaten them once which has to make them feel like they can do it again, but UK is playing a whole lot better than they were early in the season. My gut tells me UK will win rather handily.

Razor Shines
03-18-2012, 07:59 PM
Jordan Hulls response to the VCU defense was practically unwatchable and I'm sure UK will note that in their preparation.

As for the game, IU has beaten them once which has to make them feel like they can do it again, but UK is playing a whole lot better than they were early in the season. My gut tells me UK will win rather handily.

Yeah. I kind of look at like that's the first game I can think of where Hulls played like poop all around and they still won. That's something.


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Assembly Hall
03-19-2012, 04:38 PM
Looking forward to round 2 myself. In my mind, UK should win handily. But that is what I thought about the first game as well. I see three things that are gonna determine the game......

1. Can Indiana get and make their 3's?

2. Can Indiana hold their own with UK's bigs in the paint?

3. What Teague is gonna show up for UK?

Hoosier Red
03-19-2012, 05:01 PM
Looking forward to round 2 myself. In my mind, UK should win handily. But that is what I thought about the first game as well. I see three things that are gonna determine the game......

1. Can Indiana get and make their 3's?

2. Can Indiana hold their own with UK's bigs in the paint?

3. What Teague is gonna show up for UK?

And perhaps most important, which T.Jones is going to show up for UK. He was a zombie in the first game.

bucksfan2
03-19-2012, 05:06 PM
I would love IU for a long time if they some how found a way to beat UK for a second time in one year. It would make for a fantastic game, two dedicated fan bases going at each other. I know UK fans don't like what Bob Knight has to say about their school, but that is what makes rivarlies great. There is something fantastic about the rivarly between two schools in college that doesn't exsist at the next level.

That said I don't think the game is close. I actually have no a clue as to how IU took down OSU and UK. Its a nice story, finally a start for IU, but I see the game going more like the second match up with OSU where it really isn't close.

redsfanmia
03-19-2012, 05:19 PM
I think UK wins handily, but if it's close IU is definitely battle tested and can pull it out.

On a side note I find it interstesting that Teague's high school team went to the state championship game the after he leaves. Tell's me a bit about Teague the kid.

Assembly Hall
03-19-2012, 05:37 PM
Good stuff peeps.

But there is a reason why IU and Vanderbilt beat UK. 3-point shooting and a quality big man. IU and Vandy have both. Let us not forget that Carolina had UK on the ropes at Rupp.

IU and UK are alot alike in the fact that tournament experience is lacking on both ends. The Big Ten was brutal this year, IU folded quite a few times on the road when there was a hostile envirnoment. The SEC was soft but UK prevailed in every contest they had there up until the conference championship.

I have no idea what all that means but look forward to watching the game.

Scrap Irony
03-19-2012, 05:52 PM
Let us not forget that Carolina had UK on the ropes at Rupp.

They did?

WMR
03-19-2012, 06:02 PM
IU and UK are alot alike in the fact that tournament experience is lacking on both ends.

Uhh, no.

3 out of UK's top 6 players have been to the Final Four.

Razor Shines
03-19-2012, 06:08 PM
Uhh, no.

3 out of UK's top 6 players have been to the Final Four.

Oh yeah? Well IU's entire team has been to the second round of the Big Ten tournament.

WMR
03-19-2012, 06:09 PM
Oh yeah? Well IU's entire team has been to the second round of the Big Ten tournament.

I can't refute that! :D

Assembly Hall
03-19-2012, 06:09 PM
They did?

Uhhhhhh yes....it came down to the end.

Assembly Hall
03-19-2012, 06:18 PM
Uhh, no.

3 out of UK's top 6 players have been to the Final Four.


The 3 top UK players are frosh.

WMR
03-19-2012, 06:19 PM
The 3 top UK players are frosh.

I was just pointing out that your post was totally incorrect in regards to tournament experience between the two teams. Don't go trying to move the goal posts now.

redsfanmia
03-19-2012, 07:46 PM
Let's not make this thread a pissing match again please.


I hope for a good game, UK is the superior team and will probably win by double digits.

Hoosier Red
03-19-2012, 07:48 PM
I would love IU for a long time if they some how found a way to beat UK for a second time in one year. It would make for a fantastic game, two dedicated fan bases going at each other. I know UK fans don't like what Bob Knight has to say about their school, but that is what makes rivarlies great. There is something fantastic about the rivarly between two schools in college that doesn't exsist at the next level.

That said I don't think the game is close. I actually have no a clue as to how IU took down OSU and UK. Its a nice story, finally a start for IU, but I see the game going more like the second match up with OSU where it really isn't close.

Lost in the fact that Bob Knight won't mention Kentucky is the fact that he won't mention Indiana either. Bitter old man.

My biggest concern is that much like in the NFL, when all else is equal(and I'm not saying that it is) but when all else is equal, the game usually comes down to who absolutely needs it more.

In December, you could tell IU NEEDED that game. They needed the catharsis. You got the sense in the way some UK fans were mistreated that not only did the team need it, but the campus did too.

Now? IU's playing with house money to a certain extent. They could lose by half a hundred and its still a successful season. Kentucky, otoh needs this one and the three that follow.
This is definitely UK's best shot at a title with many other contenders going by the wayside(Mizzou, Duke) struggling to get out of 2nd round(Kansas, tMSU) or dealing with injury/suspension.(Carolina, Syracuse)

For UK to cough up this golden opportunity could lead people to start questioning whether this model of continually bringing in 2-3 freshmen to lead the team per year will actually lead to a title.

WMR
03-19-2012, 07:57 PM
IMO, if IU is hitting 3s they can absolutely beat UK.

Getting Davis in foul trouble again wouldn't hurt either.

gilpdawg
03-19-2012, 10:17 PM
Lost in the fact that Bob Knight won't mention Kentucky is the fact that he won't mention Indiana either. Bitter old man.

Lost in the fact by most Indiana fans is the fact that Knight deserved what he got. Not a very popular opinion in Hoosier land, but I honestly believe that. I have HUGE respect for him as a basketball coach, but almost zero as a human being, and I'm a lifelong IU fan. He's a bully who never grew up. He's the worlds oldest child. Not to mention the fact that he had gotten complacent his last few years in Bloomington, and it was time for him to go. I mean, Mike Davis, who is a mid major guy at best, went to the championship game with a bunch of Knight recruits who he couldn't get out of the first round with.

Assembly Hall
03-19-2012, 10:51 PM
I was just pointing out that your post was totally incorrect in regards to tournament experience between the two teams. Don't go trying to move the goal posts now.

LOL.....touche. I aint moving the goal posts. Just being observant of who the contributors are. UK by far has the talent..........but they are young. :beerme:

Assembly Hall
03-19-2012, 10:54 PM
IMO, if IU is hitting 3s they can absolutely beat UK.

Getting Davis in foul trouble again wouldn't hurt either.

IU will hit the 3's........if they get open looks. I think Teague is gonna be the key. He needs to knock down a few outside shots. If he does that, IU will have to extend their D..........which quite frankly is poor against the perimeter.

Assembly Hall
03-19-2012, 11:00 PM
Lost in the fact by most Indiana fans is the fact that Knight deserved what he got. Not a very popular opinion in Hoosier land, but I honestly believe that. I have HUGE respect for him as a basketball coach, but almost zero as a human being, and I'm a lifelong IU fan. He's a bully who never grew up. He's the worlds oldest child. Not to mention the fact that he had gotten complacent his last few years in Bloomington, and it was time for him to go. I mean, Mike Davis, who is a mid major guy at best, went to the championship game with a bunch of Knight recruits who he couldn't get out of the first round with.

I dont think so. A new regime came in at IU. Knight wasnt doing what so many had grown accustomed to. First round losses didnt cut it anymore. Davis recruited most of those guys.........Bob shaped them. Once the "Knight Guys" were gone, Davis showed what he could do on his own.....which wasnt much on the coaching end.

WVRed
03-20-2012, 12:28 AM
Good stuff peeps.

But there is a reason why IU and Vanderbilt beat UK. 3-point shooting and a quality big man. IU and Vandy have both. Let us not forget that Carolina had UK on the ropes at Rupp.

IU and UK are alot alike in the fact that tournament experience is lacking on both ends. The Big Ten was brutal this year, IU folded quite a few times on the road when there was a hostile envirnoment. The SEC was soft but UK prevailed in every contest they had there up until the conference championship.

I have no idea what all that means but look forward to watching the game.

Iowa State and Florida had the same thing. Strong inside presence with an abundance of perimeter players. Kentucky blew Florida out twice, beat them again in the SEC tournament, and handled Iowa State pretty convincingly.

If you want a synopsis of the game earlier this year, here goes:

1. The game was in Bloomington the week after a young team reached the no 1 ranking. IU was the most hostile road environment UK had faced all season.

2. Home game also means home cooking. IU got all the breaks in the game, similar to how Kentucky got all the breaks the year before in Lexington.

3. Anthony Davis spent most of the game in foul trouble.

4. Terrence Jones had the worst game of his career.

5. Indiana was white-hot from three.

6. Even with all of this, it took a buzzer beater to still knock off Kentucky. That buzzer beater has been shown countless times on Sportscenter.

Now, look ahead to Friday Night:

1. Neutral site, and I am using that very loosely as the Georgia Dome will be 75% blue. It's called "Catlanta" for a reason.

2. See no 1, although the officiating in the tournament overall has been horrendous.

3. Not going to cover Davis and Jones, but Davis hasn't had a game in foul trouble since the IU game and Jones is impossible to predict. If Jones plays at half of what he did in Bloomington, it will be an advantage for Kentucky.

4. I look for the dome factor to impact both teams shooting from three. Unless you play in a dome (Syracuse), you will always see teams struggle, especially young teams.

5. The said buzzer beater that has been shown on ESPN has been nothing more than a motivational ploy for the Cats.

All that said, I look for Kentucky to gameplan the same way they did against Iowa State or even Ohio State last year. Collapse on the perimeter and force Cody Zeller to beat them inside. Zeller might have a monster game, but if it keeps them from hitting three's, Kentucky will slow them down.

Playadlc
03-20-2012, 01:00 AM
Indiana needs to run, run, run and then run some more. Play a game that will end up in the high 80's. If there is one edge that IU has over UK it is that they are deeper. We simply can not play a half-court game with UK. Their D is too good. We have to get the ball up and down the floor. It will help neutralize Davis a bit and we have shooters that can kill a scrambling defense.

I am fully aware that we could lose a game like this 95-82, but any team that has had success against UK has forced a quicker tempo.

Kentucky is simply a better overall basketball team than Indiana. But if Indiana plays a style that doesn't allow UK to play much half-court D, I think IU has a fighters chance.

Hoosier Red
03-20-2012, 01:40 AM
Iowa State and Florida had the same thing. Strong inside presence with an abundance of perimeter players. Kentucky blew Florida out twice, beat them again in the SEC tournament, and handled Iowa State pretty convincingly.

If you want a synopsis of the game earlier this year, here goes:

1. The game was in Bloomington the week after a young team reached the no 1 ranking. IU was the most hostile road environment UK had faced all season.

2. Home game also means home cooking. IU got all the breaks in the game, similar to how Kentucky got all the breaks the year before in Lexington.

3. Anthony Davis spent most of the game in foul trouble.

4. Terrence Jones had the worst game of his career.

5. Indiana was white-hot from three.

6. Even with all of this, it took a buzzer beater to still knock off Kentucky. That buzzer beater has been shown countless times on Sportscenter.

Now, look ahead to Friday Night:

1. Neutral site, and I am using that very loosely as the Georgia Dome will be 75% blue. It's called "Catlanta" for a reason.

2. See no 1, although the officiating in the tournament overall has been horrendous.

3. Not going to cover Davis and Jones, but Davis hasn't had a game in foul trouble since the IU game and Jones is impossible to predict. If Jones plays at half of what he did in Bloomington, it will be an advantage for Kentucky.

4. I look for the dome factor to impact both teams shooting from three. Unless you play in a dome (Syracuse), you will always see teams struggle, especially young teams.

5. The said buzzer beater that has been shown on ESPN has been nothing more than a motivational ploy for the Cats.

All that said, I look for Kentucky to gameplan the same way they did against Iowa State or even Ohio State last year. Collapse on the perimeter and force Cody Zeller to beat them inside. Zeller might have a monster game, but if it keeps them from hitting three's, Kentucky will slow them down.


A few points I'd quibble over.
- While IU was 7 of 9 from the three point line in the 2nd half, IU was 9 for 15 in the game. That's certainly nothing to sneeze at, but it's also not an impossibly high number to replicate.
- the home cooking resulted in UK being called for 4 fouls in 2nd half. Maybe I've come to expect more from my home cooking officials, but maybe it wouldnt hurt to get to the bonus.

- My friend made the best point when he said IU has played well enough in about 4 or 5 games this yr. to beat an average UK performance. Now there's no guarantee that UK doesn't play an above average game, but that game wasn't a one time fluke, impossible to repeat.

gilpdawg
03-20-2012, 08:13 AM
I dont think so. A new regime came in at IU. Knight wasnt doing what so many had grown accustomed to. First round losses didnt cut it anymore. Davis recruited most of those guys.........Bob shaped them. Once the "Knight Guys" were gone, Davis showed what he could do on his own.....which wasnt much on the coaching end.
That's fair. He just rubbed me the wrong way the way he thought the rules didn't apply to him, and he still thinks that way today. I used to worship that guy until I grew up. I guess he never did.

gilpdawg
03-20-2012, 08:17 AM
- the home cooking resulted in UK being called for 4 fouls in 2nd half. Maybe I've come to expect more from my home cooking officials, but maybe it wouldnt hurt to get to the bonus.



This is totally off topic, but it makes me chuckle every time someone references "home cooking." I was watching football in B Dubs one Sunday and a Bengals game was on, and this Bengals fan, every time a flag was thrown against the Bengals, was all like "I can't believe this home cookin'." He was only mildly annoying until he was crying about, if you can believe it, a delay of game penalty. Yeah, because the officials only call that on the road team when the clock hits zero before the snap. I wanted to snap his neck after that. :lol:

That's almost as bad as the time at a Reds game that Masset was getting lit up and some guy kept saying "Come on Rick." My friend and I called all the Reds players Rick for a month. Rick Votto up to bad, followed by Jay Bruce. Too bad Rolen was hurt at the time or we could have had Rick Rolen and I could have sang "Never Gonna Give You Up."

Hoosier Red
03-20-2012, 09:55 AM
I dont think so. A new regime came in at IU. Knight wasnt doing what so many had grown accustomed to. First round losses didnt cut it anymore. Davis recruited most of those guys.........Bob shaped them. Once the "Knight Guys" were gone, Davis showed what he could do on his own.....which wasnt much on the coaching end.

This could of course be it's own discussion, but as someone who came into my IU fanhood during the mediocre late 90's and had no emotional connection to Bob Knight, I can say in hindsight that I believe he got what he had coming to him for a long time.

He was burnt out. He needed a break. And however long he was the coach at IU, he was going to see continually lower results.

I'd never argue that Mike Davis was a better coach than Bob Knight, but for that particular team, he was a better fit.

In all honesty it burns me up just talking about it 10 years after the fact that it's still a point of conversation that overshadows the tremendous story of this year's team.

Assembly Hall
03-20-2012, 10:24 AM
This could of course be it's own discussion, but as someone who came into my IU fanhood during the mediocre late 90's and had no emotional connection to Bob Knight, I can say in hindsight that I believe he got what he had coming to him for a long time.

He was burnt out. He needed a break. And however long he was the coach at IU, he was going to see continually lower results.

I'd never argue that Mike Davis was a better coach than Bob Knight, but for that particular team, he was a better fit.

In all honesty it burns me up just talking about it 10 years after the fact that it's still a point of conversation that overshadows the tremendous story of this year's team.

If you didnt become an IU fan until the late 90's, I can see your disconnection with the General. But I will remind you that the only reason Davis even coached that team was because the players said after the Knight firing that unless Treloar or Davis was named coach, IU would have no team. IU settled on Davis and the rest is history.

Assembly Hall
03-20-2012, 10:34 AM
Iowa State and Florida had the same thing. Strong inside presence with an abundance of perimeter players. Kentucky blew Florida out twice, beat them again in the SEC tournament, and handled Iowa State pretty convincingly.


Iowa State and Florida dont have centers like IU or Vandy. IU beat them. Vandy played them tough twice before finally getting the Cats in the SEC championship.

Hoosier Red
03-20-2012, 10:35 AM
If you didnt become an IU fan until the late 90's, I can see your disconnection with the General. But I will remind you that the only reason Davis even coached that team was because the players said after the Knight firing that unless Treloar or Davis was named coach, IU would have no team. IU settled on Davis and the rest is history.

Oh absolutely that's the only reason he was even considered for the job. But that's really immaterial to the main issue. Knight was burnt out and needed a break. He was becoming a shell of the genius coach IU fans came to know and love in the previous two decades.

Whether his dismissal was right or wrong, I have no doubt it turned out to be the best thing for him personally. He got a break and was able to take on a new challenge at Texas Tech a few years down the line.
And the fact that he still holds a grudge against a university despite the fact that nearly everyone involved in his dismissal is now gone shows that he despite his brilliance, he can still be a petty jerk.

Assembly Hall
03-20-2012, 11:08 AM
Oh absolutely that's the only reason he was even considered for the job. But that's really immaterial to the main issue. Knight was burnt out and needed a break. He was becoming a shell of the genius coach IU fans came to know and love in the previous two decades.

Whether his dismissal was right or wrong, I have no doubt it turned out to be the best thing for him personally. He got a break and was able to take on a new challenge at Texas Tech a few years down the line.
And the fact that he still holds a grudge against a university despite the fact that nearly everyone involved in his dismissal is now gone shows that he despite his brilliance, he can still be a petty jerk.

I cant argue about anything ya said.

I actually met Coach back in the late 90's at a gas station south of Fort Wayne. He took the time to talk to me and my son for 15 minutes. The funny thing is that we never even discussed basketball, it was all about the fish we had caught. So my views on him are quite biased.;)

Hoosier Red
03-20-2012, 11:15 AM
I cant argue about anything ya said.

I actually met Coach back in the late 90's at a gas station south of Fort Wayne. He took the time to talk to me and my son for 15 minutes. The funny thing is that we never even discussed basketball, it was all about the fish we had caught. So my views on him are quite biased.;)

Ha! Great story. I actually had a couple of stories covering Knight as a member of the student media and as a student in his coaching basketball class which actually enhanced my view of him at the time.

WMR
03-20-2012, 11:22 AM
As long as you weren't one of his players who got choked/slapped, a secretary, a potted plant, a chair, an opposing coach who got slapped, or a member of the media or the IU administration, you probably love the guy. :D

WVRed
03-20-2012, 11:53 AM
Iowa State and Florida dont have centers like IU or Vandy. IU beat them. Vandy played them tough twice before finally getting the Cats in the SEC championship.

I take it you didn't watch either the Iowa State game or any of the Florida games.

Florida and Iowa State both have young centers on the inside. Patric Young from Florida is one of the best young centers in the SEC. Royce White plays center for Iowa State and his draft stock has jumped through the roof.

WVRed
03-20-2012, 12:00 PM
As long as you weren't one of his players who got choked/slapped, a secretary, a potted plant, a chair, an opposing coach who got slapped, or a member of the media or the IU administration, you probably love the guy. :D

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_SO8Y3MIsoP8/SYb2nrb2SHI/AAAAAAAAGNw/yQfnf8To0qE/s400/bob_knight.jpg

Assembly Hall
03-20-2012, 12:36 PM
As long as you weren't one of his players who got choked/slapped, a secretary, a potted plant, a chair, an opposing coach who got slapped, or a member of the media or the IU administration, you probably love the guy. :D

Yep you are right. I am gonna change my icons to a couple of UK coaches. Adolph Rupp and Eddie Sutton.:D

bucksfan2
03-20-2012, 01:06 PM
In December, you could tell IU NEEDED that game. They needed the catharsis. You got the sense in the way some UK fans were mistreated that not only did the team need it, but the campus did too.

Now? IU's playing with house money to a certain extent. They could lose by half a hundred and its still a successful season. Kentucky, otoh needs this one and the three that follow.
This is definitely UK's best shot at a title with many other contenders going by the wayside(Mizzou, Duke) struggling to get out of 2nd round(Kansas, tMSU) or dealing with injury/suspension.(Carolina, Syracuse)

For UK to cough up this golden opportunity could lead people to start questioning whether this model of continually bringing in 2-3 freshmen to lead the team per year will actually lead to a title.

IU is playing with house money which makes them more dangerous. I think in the tournament the favorite, espeically the tournament favorite has a great deal of pressure on them. If IU gets a lead or hands in the game the pressure will start to mount on UK. Most of the time the other fans in the building begin to turn on the favorite and the underdog gets the crowd support. That may be minimalized because of UK's following, but if IU is close the IU, X, and Baylor fans will all start rooting against UK.

Fortunately for UK fans Tom Crean doesn't have D Wade to give the ball to this time around against UK.

Hoosier Red
03-20-2012, 01:53 PM
IU is playing with house money which makes them more dangerous. I think in the tournament the favorite, espeically the tournament favorite has a great deal of pressure on them. If IU gets a lead or hands in the game the pressure will start to mount on UK. Most of the time the other fans in the building begin to turn on the favorite and the underdog gets the crowd support. That may be minimalized because of UK's following, but if IU is close the IU, X, and Baylor fans will all start rooting against UK.

Fortunately for UK fans Tom Crean doesn't have D Wade to give the ball to this time around against UK.

That's a good point. IU has the freedom of playing like a 12 seed, but most 12 seeds don't have Cody Zeller.
I think the pressure and lack of pressure can be a positive or a negative for either side to be honest.

I've said all along, if it stays close I like IU's chances. However I think Kentucky has the firepower to blow open the game early.

Assembly Hall
03-20-2012, 01:59 PM
I take it you didn't watch either the Iowa State game or any of the Florida games.

Florida and Iowa State both have young centers on the inside. Patric Young from Florida is one of the best young centers in the SEC. Royce White plays center for Iowa State and his draft stock has jumped through the roof.

Sure I did. Florida doesnt even utilize Young. And Royce White is 6'-8" . Neither would start for UK. Zellar and Ezeli would.

WMR
03-20-2012, 02:38 PM
Neither Zeller or Ezeli would start for UK.

Assembly Hall
03-20-2012, 02:45 PM
Neither Zeller or Ezeli would start for UK.


LOL.....whatever man. Jones is a stud. :laugh:

Zellar would start on any team in the country, and that includes UK. Heck, he would fit into their offense quite nicely and he can hit free throws.

WMR
03-20-2012, 03:33 PM
If you think Cal would start Zeller over Terrence Jones, you're nuts.

Zeller is a nice player, but he's not putting sophomore Terrence Jones on the bench. He would play, but not start.

Assembly Hall
03-20-2012, 03:55 PM
If you think Cal would start Zeller over Terrence Jones, you're nuts.

Zeller is a nice player, but he's not putting sophomore Terrence Jones on the bench. He would play, but not start.

LOL............yeah your right. Jones makes too much money to sit the bench. TRob wouldnt start for you guys, Ty Zellar wouldnt start for you guys. Draymond Green wouldnt start for you guys, Austin Rivers wouldnt start for you guys......

Geez, why is there a tournament? UK has the 5 best players in the country. I concede to just give them the title.

cumberlandreds
03-20-2012, 04:00 PM
Sure I did. Florida doesnt even utilize Young. And Royce White is 6'-8" . Neither would start for UK. Zellar and Ezeli would.

:laugh: Zeller would have a small shot a starting. Ezili, never.

WMR
03-20-2012, 04:03 PM
LOL............yeah your right. Jones makes too much money to sit the bench. TRob wouldnt start for you guys, Ty Zellar wouldnt start for you guys. Draymond Green wouldnt start for you guys, Austin Rivers wouldnt start for you guys......

Geez, why is there a tournament? UK has the 5 best players in the country. I concede to just give them the title.

A program just coming off probation shouldn't be making cheating accusations towards others.

There are several players around the country who would start for UK, Cody Zeller just isn't one of them. He would get plenty of PT, though.

It's a stupid hypothetical anyway, you shouldn't get so bent out of shape over it.

Scrap Irony
03-20-2012, 04:32 PM
LOL.....whatever man. Jones is a stud. :laugh:

Zellar would start on any team in the country, and that includes UK. Heck, he would fit into their offense quite nicely and he can hit free throws.

No, Zeller would start for MOST teams in the country.

There's no chance he'd start at North Carolina.

There's no chance he'd start at Kentucky.

There's no chance he'd start at Ohio State.

He might start at Kansas. Maybe.

Other than that, I agree-- he could start anywhere else.

bucksfan2
03-20-2012, 04:58 PM
No, Zeller would start for MOST teams in the country.

There's no chance he'd start at North Carolina.

There's no chance he'd start at Kentucky.

There's no chance he'd start at Ohio State.

He might start at Kansas. Maybe.

Other than that, I agree-- he could start anywhere else.

I think he would start at OSU. Thad has shown that he will start his 5 best players, and he is much better than Smith Jr. It would force Thomas on the 3 but help Sullinger. He would start but probably would be the first one to the bench because both Sullinger and Thomas are better and more dynamic than him. (Did I just start another battle?)

redsfanmia
03-20-2012, 05:03 PM
As long as you weren't one of his players who got choked/slapped, a secretary, a potted plant, a chair, an opposing coach who got slapped, or a member of the media or the IU administration, you probably love the guy. :D

All of his national championships and final fours still stand in the record books though.

Scrap Irony
03-20-2012, 05:17 PM
All of his national championships and final fours still stand in the record books though.

Do you have evidence that Calipari was ever implicated in ANY NCAA shenanigans?

I'll hang up and listen.

WVRed
03-20-2012, 05:20 PM
If you think Cal would start Zeller over Terrence Jones, you're nuts.

Zeller is a nice player, but he's not putting sophomore Terrence Jones on the bench. He would play, but not start.

I think you guys are ignoring one little aspect:

Cody Zeller is a center. With that being said, I don't think there is any doubt that Anthony Davis would push Zeller to the bench.

And for the record, I would love to have Zeller at Kentucky. He would contribute very well, but he is a significant upgrade to Eloy Vargas and nothing more. If Davis and Jones were gone, he would start.

As for Royce White earlier, what does size have to do with anything? The guy is 6'8 but also can run the offense. Its what made Iowa State such a unique matchup in that it pulls your center away to have to guard a center who can double over as a PG. It's a mismatch, and mismatches slice both ways.

redsfanmia
03-20-2012, 06:15 PM
Do you have evidence that Calipari was ever implicated in ANY NCAA shenanigans?

I'll hang up and listen.

I know I know, both final four's being vacated had nothing to do with him, he is telfon.

Todd Gack
03-20-2012, 07:22 PM
I loathe, absolutely loathe Kentucky and their fans. I have a ton of family and friends who went to IU and I've been rooting for the revival of the program since the cheater Sampson (funny how IU fans never mention this when they talk about Cal) burnt down the program.

However, I'm rooting for Kentucky this weekend just to knock down the IU fans a peg or two. The arrogance and smack from the new crop of IU fans dwarfs that of UK fans.

I'm not rooting for UK because I want them to win. I'm rooting for UK just so IU fans get back to a sense of reality.

Razor Shines
03-20-2012, 07:40 PM
I loathe, absolutely loathe Kentucky and their fans. I have a ton of family and friends who went to IU and I've been rooting for the revival of the program since the cheater Sampson (funny how IU fans never mention this when they talk about Cal) burnt down the program.

However, I'm rooting for Kentucky this weekend just to knock down the IU fans a peg or two. The arrogance and smack from the new crop of IU fans dwarfs that of UK fans.

I'm not rooting for UK because I want them to win. I'm rooting for UK just so IU fans get back to a sense of reality.

Cool. Thanks for stopping by.

What kind of a name is Gack anyway?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Razor Shines
03-20-2012, 07:42 PM
You know where I care if Cody Zeller can start? Indiana. You know where I dont care if he can start? Every other program in country.


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dabvu2498
03-20-2012, 08:57 PM
Cool. Thanks for stopping by.

What kind of a name is Gack anyway?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Comanche Indian.
http://brucedesilva.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/chevy.jpg

WMR
03-20-2012, 09:31 PM
Cool. Thanks for stopping by.

What kind of a name is Gack anyway?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OMG!! LOL. :D:D:D

:lol:

Scrap Irony
03-20-2012, 10:08 PM
I know I know, both final four's being vacated had nothing to do with him, he is telfon.

I've got two letters from the NCAA saying he's innocent of all charges, one at Memphis (http://johnclay.bloginky.com/files/2009/05/ncaa-letters-to-calipari.pdf) and from NCAA infractions czar, Tom Yeager while at UMass, a portion of which is quoted here:


"The committee fully recognizes you had nothing to
do with the violations of Marcus Camby during the 1995-96 season. In a
sense, you were an innocent victim."

Snark aside, if you've got any evidence, I'd love to see it.

Revering4Blue
03-20-2012, 10:36 PM
This entire Coach Cal is a cheater/no he isn't debate is as old and tiresome as the assumption that the average I.U fan actually cares about Bob Knight's opinion about anything other than the X's and O's of basketball.

Let's talk about the game.

RedFanAlways1966
03-20-2012, 11:12 PM
I will not argue IU-UK. Just wanted to mention that Tom Crean makes me think of Dwight from The Office. :)

Todd Gack
03-21-2012, 12:49 AM
You know where I care if Cody Zeller can start? Indiana. You know where I dont care if he can start? Every other program in country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What insight.

Razor Shines
03-21-2012, 02:03 AM
What insight.

Thank you. I put a lot of thought and effort into that post. And not often do posters take time to single you out and say "hey, thanks for that, I learned something from that post."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Assembly Hall
03-21-2012, 05:50 AM
I am done......just gonna take my butt spanking Friday night like a man. :beerme:

bucksfan2
03-21-2012, 09:37 AM
I will not argue IU-UK. Just wanted to mention that Tom Crean makes me think of Dwight from The Office. :)

My wife said that as well. He never used to look that bad, did he?

Hoosier Red
03-21-2012, 09:55 AM
I will not argue IU-UK. Just wanted to mention that Tom Crean makes me think of Dwight from The Office. :)

Huh, I hadn't seen that connection before. I'd always thought Tom Arnold.

Tom Crean (http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=805&tbm=isch&tbnid=QG7hP-aPI2pltM:&imgrefurl=http://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/tom-crean-angry-face-after-indiana-win-because-he-was-mad/104404&docid=5P64TtxIUtbTLM&imgurl=http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/tom-crean-mad.jpg&w=260&h=266&ei=hM5pT4bRHMHTgQfft9DKCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=179&vpy=321&dur=2452&hovh=212&hovw=208&tx=61&ty=234&sig=113641393633895484193&page=1&tbnh=134&tbnw=130&start=0&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0)

Tom Arnold (http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1600&bih=805&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnslo&tbnid=vKpgc5qShV3CFM:&imgrefurl=http://www.laughstub.com/Tom-Arnold&docid=6Br2HXI4BBhpJM&imgurl=http://www.laughstub.com/images/comedians/Tom-Arnold.jpeg&w=600&h=776&ei=V89pT-biFImQgwfSk53PCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=594&vpy=2&dur=4254&hovh=255&hovw=197&tx=65&ty=280&sig=113641393633895484193&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=108&start=0&ndsp=43&ved=1t:429,r:25,s:0)

Scrap Irony
03-21-2012, 10:03 AM
Huh, I hadn't seen that connection before. I'd always thought Tom Arnold.

He looks like Rick Moranis's younger, much more athletic brother. Y'know, the one Rick always wanted to be, so he works out a group of young misfits thinking he'll prove himself as a coach, only... Wait, Crean looks nothing like Ed O'Neill.

Crap.

I do know his last name makes me want to sing late 60s psychedelic rock. At volume 11.

thatcoolguy_22
03-21-2012, 11:28 AM
Is anyone going to the game? A few friends/family members will be at the GA Dome if anyone wants to tailgate a little. Message me on here. However, if you're a Kentucky fan, be prepared to drink a few with some rabid (but respectful) IU fans.

Assembly Hall
03-21-2012, 01:34 PM
He looks like Rick Moranis's younger, much more athletic brother. Y'know, the one Rick always wanted to be, so he works out a group of young misfits thinking he'll prove himself as a coach, only... Wait, Crean looks nothing like Ed O'Neill.

Crap.

I do know his last name makes me want to sing late 60s psychedelic rock. At volume 11.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:

SunDeck
03-21-2012, 05:39 PM
My wife said that as well. He never used to look that bad, did he?

It's the hair cut.
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Tom+Crean+AX6lIdX87CRm.jpg

http://www.flowtown.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/schrute-560x373.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BdKowoi7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

redsfanmia
03-21-2012, 05:51 PM
I've got two letters from the NCAA saying he's innocent of all charges, one at Memphis (http://johnclay.bloginky.com/files/2009/05/ncaa-letters-to-calipari.pdf) and from NCAA infractions czar, Tom Yeager while at UMass, a portion of which is quoted here:



Snark aside, if you've got any evidence, I'd love to see it.

I said he had nothing to do with it, what evidence do you need. He is totally innocent and it is just a coincidence that it happened at two places.

Assembly Hall
03-21-2012, 07:54 PM
Unless my research is wrong(?), I was simply amazed to see that UK and IU have only met 3 times in NCAA tournament play. '73, '75, and '83. History does not bode well for the Hoosiers. Kentucky won the match-ups in '75 and '83, in both losses IU had season ending injuries to key players leading up to the game. This year Verdell goes down...............

RedFanAlways1966
03-22-2012, 07:48 AM
I said he had nothing to do with it, what evidence do you need. He is totally innocent and it is just a coincidence that it happened at two places.

How many programs has he coached? :confused:

cumberlandreds
03-22-2012, 09:10 AM
Unless my research is wrong(?), I was simply amazed to see that UK and IU have only met 3 times in NCAA tournament play. '73, '75, and '83. History does not bode well for the Hoosiers. Kentucky won the match-ups in '75 and '83, in both losses IU had season ending injuries to key players leading up to the game. This year Verdell goes down...............

I did a blog on a UK fan website about these three games. In doing a little research I did notice in 1983 that Ted Kitchel and Jim Thomas played in the regular season game against UK but did not play in the NCAA game. I assume they were the one's injured? In my blog I stated I didn't remember why they didn't play. I know Scott May was injured and played just a few minutes in that 1975 game. Anyway I remember watching all three of those games. All terrific games and the 1975 game is one of the best and most enjoyable UK wins I have ever experienced.

Assembly Hall
03-22-2012, 10:12 AM
I did a blog on a UK fan website about these three games. In doing a little research I did notice in 1983 that Ted Kitchel and Jim Thomas played in the regular season game against UK but did not play in the NCAA game. I assume they were the one's injured? In my blog I stated I didn't remember why they didn't play. I know Scott May was injured and played just a few minutes in that 1975 game. Anyway I remember watching all three of those games. All terrific games and the 1975 game is one of the best and most enjoyable UK wins I have ever experienced.

In 1975, Scott May suffered a broken arm in the final regular season game. I personally do not remember why Jimmy Thomas didnt play in that '83 NCAA game. But Ted Kitchel went down with 5 games to go in the regular season due to a back injury never to return.

Actually the Hoosiers, through out my lifetime, have had trouble with the injury bug that has affected their outcome in the tournament even when it didnt involve Kentucky.

Hoosier Red
03-22-2012, 11:18 AM
In 1975, Scott May suffered a broken arm in the final regular season game. I personally do not remember why Jimmy Thomas didnt play in that '83 NCAA game. But Ted Kitchel went down with 5 games to go in the regular season due to a back injury never to return.

Actually the Hoosiers, through out my lifetime, have had trouble with the injury bug that has affected their outcome in the tournament even when it didnt involve Kentucky.

That '83 team was the "Fans Big Ten Title" as I recall. The tradition had been to not put a banner up for any particular B1G Ten Title, but because of the way the fans rallied around that team, there was a "fans banner" hung for that particular B1G Ten crown.

Assembly Hall
03-22-2012, 11:47 AM
That '83 team was the "Fans Big Ten Title" as I recall. The tradition had been to not put a banner up for any particular B1G Ten Title, but because of the way the fans rallied around that team, there was a "fans banner" hung for that particular B1G Ten crown.

Yes, that is correct. As I recall, IU had a 2 game lead in the conference with 5 games to play, and everything was looking great. Kitchel went down before their state of Michigan road trip. Without Kitchel, IU looked anemic and dropped games to the Wolverines and Spartans. The pack caught them with 3 games to play without one of their stars. They ended up blowing out Ohio St, Illinois, and Purdue(The three teams that tied for 2nd) to secure the Big Ten title. Knight credited the fans for the crown and the banner was hung.

To me, although it was a successful season...........I always ask What if?

redsfanmia
03-22-2012, 04:35 PM
How many programs has he coached? :confused:

3 as head coach, so that is a pretty good record.

RedFanAlways1966
03-23-2012, 09:52 AM
3 as head coach, so that is a pretty good record.

It seems that violations happen where he coaches (he is not the only one). I can understand the die-hard fans for defending him (hell, I defended Tressel until the bitter end! part of being that die-hard type I guess). But as a semi-educated person with no stake in this or him... it seems to happen often when he coaches. Do they keep records for Final Fours that have been stripped or reaching a certain number of career wins multiple times b/c of wins being overturned? If they did, we might have a contender for top dog. Like I said I am not a hater of UK. But I am highly suspicious of anything Coach Calipari touches. And shame on me if he is 100% innocent of any wrongdoings. I hope he is innocent or is able to have better control of his programs, but I (and many others) am (are) suspicious.

bucksfan2
03-23-2012, 09:56 AM
It seems that violations happen where he coaches (he is not the only one). I can understand the die-hard fans for defending him (hell, I defended Tressel until the bitter end! part of being that die-hard type I guess). But as a semi-educated person with no stake in this or him... it seems to happen often when he coaches. Do they keep records for Final Fours that have been stripped or reaching a certain number of career wins multiple times b/c of wins being overturned? If they did, we might have a contender for top dog. Like I said I am not a hater of UK. But I am highly suspicious of anything Coach Calipari touches. And shame on me if he is 100% innocent of any wrongdoings. I hope he is innocent or is able to have better control of his programs, but I (and many others) am (are) suspicious.

:thumbup:

traderumor
03-23-2012, 12:47 PM
I am really looking forward to this rematch. Last Big 10/12 representation, do the conference proud tonight!

BillDoran
03-23-2012, 01:07 PM
I am really looking forward to this rematch. Last Big 10/12 representation, do the conference proud tonight!

Ohio State?

traderumor
03-23-2012, 01:48 PM
Ohio State?
Obviously, I meant with a chance to advance.

WMR
03-23-2012, 03:11 PM
It seems that violations happen where he coaches (he is not the only one). I can understand the die-hard fans for defending him (hell, I defended Tressel until the bitter end! part of being that die-hard type I guess). But as a semi-educated person with no stake in this or him... it seems to happen often when he coaches. Do they keep records for Final Fours that have been stripped or reaching a certain number of career wins multiple times b/c of wins being overturned? If they did, we might have a contender for top dog. Like I said I am not a hater of UK. But I am highly suspicious of anything Coach Calipari touches. And shame on me if he is 100% innocent of any wrongdoings. I hope he is innocent or is able to have better control of his programs, but I (and many others) am (are) suspicious.

Buckeye fans sharing their suspicions about other coaches/programs is awfully cute.

RedFanAlways1966
03-23-2012, 03:26 PM
Buckeye fans sharing their suspicions about other coaches/programs is awfully cute.

I am a loyal OSU fan. But I am not too arrogant to put my head in the sand and act like nothing happens there. I know that there are loyal Buckeyes who do. But this has nothing to do with the program I like or do not like. It has to do with a guy who seems to have programs get in trouble for violations and banners removed. He might have clean hands. But like I'd bet my money on UK to win this tourney, I'd also bet my money that John is not so clean. Not that he has done wrong at UK, but he is not so clean in his college coaching career. Some things are coincidence (birds cause engine failure in a airplane and cause it to land in the Hudson River) and some things happen too often to make people wonder if there is a common thread. Sometimes there is not enough evidence to convict and thank goodness that is the case. But when you have two FFs stripped, then I do not blame people for wondering about you.

WMR
03-23-2012, 03:31 PM
Well, he's been personally exonerated by the NCAA for the situations at UMASS and Memphis and doesn't have a single NCAA infraction on his record, so I guess I'll just have to stick with the facts until some actual evidence is presented.

I'm sure Cal was the one who introduced Camby to that agent and told him to accept money... of course, Cal was also the one who turned his own program into the NCAA. Weird fella!

And then playing the best player in the nation after he was cleared to play by the NCAA.... TWICE! No other coach in the country would have done that... no way, no how.

RedFanAlways1966
03-23-2012, 03:42 PM
Well, he's been personally exonerated by the NCAA for the situations at UMASS and Memphis and doesn't have a single NCAA infraction on his record, so I guess I'll just have to stick with the facts until some actual evidence is presented.

I'm sure Cal was the one who introduced Camby to that agent and told him to accept money... of course, Cal was also the one who turned his own program into the NCAA. Weird fella!

And then playing the best player in the nation after he was cleared to play by the NCAA.... TWICE! No other coach in the country would have done that... no way, no how.

I understand your position (and loyalty!). Perhaps he just recruits bad apples? Like Jim Tressel. Of course watching over 15 guys can be as tough as watching over 100 or so. But I jest, WMR. I do not want to make this a us vs. them thing. I am pretty sure there are a lot people like myself that are suspicious of John. It could be bogus and that is a shame.

WMR
03-23-2012, 03:46 PM
I understand your position (and loyalty!). Perhaps he just recruits bad apples? Like Jim Tressel. Of course watching over 15 guys can be as tough as watching over 100 or so. But I jest, WMR. I do not want to make this a us vs. them thing. I am pretty sure there are a lot people like myself that are suspicious of John. It could be bogus and that is a shame.

Almost as many people hate Cal as hate UK, so it's a good match. ;)

(or maybe that's backwards :lol:)

Scrap Irony
03-23-2012, 04:29 PM
I understand your position (and loyalty!). Perhaps he just recruits bad apples? Like Jim Tressel. Of course watching over 15 guys can be as tough as watching over 100 or so. But I jest, WMR. I do not want to make this a us vs. them thing. I am pretty sure there are a lot people like myself that are suspicious of John. It could be bogus and that is a shame.

Is it loyalty to expect some evidence other than the twin fallacies of argument from ignorance (assuming a claim is true because it cannot be proven as false) and cum hoc ergo propter hoc (a faulty assumption that correlation between two variables implies that one causes the other, i.e., because both UMass and Memphis have had Final Fours taken away, Calipari must have cheated).

I like Cal, true. But I love proof, evidence, and logic.

And, so far, only one side of this "argument" has provided any. And, while making baseless claims might be a side effect of the internet world (and sports' sites specifically), I'd expect more from knowledgeable fans.

Hoosier Red
03-23-2012, 04:41 PM
Is it loyalty to expect some evidence other than the twin fallacies of argument from ignorance (assuming a claim is true because it cannot be proven as false) and cum hoc ergo propter hoc (a faulty assumption that correlation between two variables implies that one causes the other, i.e., because both UMass and Memphis have had Final Fours taken away, Calipari must have cheated).

I like Cal, true. But I love proof, evidence, and logic.

And, so far, only one side of this "argument" has provided any. And, while making baseless claims might be a side effect of the internet world (and sports' sites specifically), I'd expect more from knowledgeable fans.

Scrap, I appreciate the dedication to the facts. And I don't make an accusation, but I think at the very least the situations surrounding Calipari(if not directly involving him) at UMass and Memphis eliminate the benefit of the doubt that perhaps other coaches receive. The NCAA doesn't vacate final four runs over an impermissable phone call(Maybe for a text message.)


That much being said, it's not like people haven't tried. WMR and I went back and forth a few summers ago when the NY Times reporter was investigating/reporting on the investigation of Eric Bledsoe. Again there seemed to be a lot of smoke but no fire. If there was truly something damning, it would have been found by now.

traderumor
03-23-2012, 05:28 PM
Buckeye fans sharing their suspicions about other coaches/programs is awfully cute.Why? Their coaches have been held accountable for violations when they have occurred. The story on Calipari is that he slips away quietly and lets his former program and others take the fall.

traderumor
03-23-2012, 05:29 PM
Well, he's been personally exonerated by the NCAA for the situations at UMASS and Memphis and doesn't have a single NCAA infraction on his record, so I guess I'll just have to stick with the facts until some actual evidence is presented.

I'm sure Cal was the one who introduced Camby to that agent and told him to accept money... of course, Cal was also the one who turned his own program into the NCAA. Weird fella!

And then playing the best player in the nation after he was cleared to play by the NCAA.... TWICE! No other coach in the country would have done that... no way, no how.Folks used to defend Tressel in the same way. I'd be careful, you might look foolish later.

Captain13
03-23-2012, 05:31 PM
I thought this was the Indiana thread.:confused:

WMR
03-23-2012, 05:41 PM
Why? Their coaches have been held accountable for violations when they have occurred. The story on Calipari is that he slips away quietly and lets his former program and others take the fall.

You're aware that Memphis offered Cal more money than UK to try and get him to stay?

redsfanmia
03-23-2012, 05:47 PM
You're aware that Memphis offered Cal more money than UK to try and get him to stay?

I have heard rumblings the Cal has interest in the Knicks job (talk radio nothing concrete) any rumors about him leaving or problems at UK?

Assembly Hall
03-23-2012, 05:51 PM
I am not Cal's judge nor jury. I find him to be a very articulate individual and love his interviews. He might not be the guy that is in trouble, but he has it pretty close to him. And the fact that it happened at two schools so far leads to alot of scrutiny.

As I said I really like him. But unfortunately I dislike UK. Nothing to do with the school or its fans. Not about the players or the Coach. It is all about the rivalry that was as good as any in the country in the day, and is being rekindled now between my beloved Hoosiers and the Cats.

John Wooden didnt get in trouble while he was at UCLA. But yet, there was a lot of improprieties going on there. Cal has vacated 2 FF's. I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I hope for UK and its fans, that what happened at UMass and Memphis doesnt happen in Lexington. Because where I am from, 3 strikes and you're out.

redsfanmia
03-23-2012, 05:55 PM
I am not Cal's judge nor jury. I find him to be a very articulate individual and love his interviews. He might not be the guy that is in trouble, but he has it pretty close to him. And the fact that it happened at two schools so far leads to alot of scrutiny.

As I said I really like him. But unfortunately I dislike UK. Nothing to do with the school or its fans. Not about the players or the Coach. It is all about the rivalry that was as good as any in the country in the day, and is being rekindled now between my beloved Hoosiers and the Cats.

John Wooden didnt get in trouble while he was at UCLA. But yet, there was a lot of improprieties going on there. Cal has vacated 2 FF's. I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I hope for UK and its fans, that what happened at UMass and Memphis doesnt happen in Lexington. Because where I am from, 3 strikes and you're out.

Most successful coaches are a little dirty, Wooden is considered a saint and he looked the other way when it came to Sam Gilbert.

Scrap Irony
03-23-2012, 06:32 PM
I am not Cal's judge nor jury. I find him to be a very articulate individual and love his interviews. He might not be the guy that is in trouble, but he has it pretty close to him. And the fact that it happened at two schools so far leads to alot of scrutiny.

And, if with that extra scrutiny, nothing has been found, when does the extra scrutiny end?

WMR
03-23-2012, 06:43 PM
I have heard rumblings the Cal has interest in the Knicks job (talk radio nothing concrete) any rumors about him leaving or problems at UK?

No problems at UK as far as I know, but Cal has been associated with NBA jobs every year he has been at UK, and I'm guessing they will continue until the day he actually does leave/retire.

Cal is the "sexy" pick from the current rank of college coaches to go to the NBA and I'm guessing the rumors will never cease.

Assembly Hall
03-23-2012, 07:18 PM
And, if with that extra scrutiny, nothing has been found, when does the extra scrutiny end?

That's a good question Scrap. For me, it would be Cal sticking around at UK without any rules violations for awhile. And when he does choose to leave, there arent any "messes" in the wake.

Assembly Hall
03-23-2012, 07:20 PM
I thought this was the Indiana thread.:confused:

If we are real quiet, what do you say we sneak over to the UK thread and pollute it with a lot of talk about IU!!!!!!!!!!! LOL. Seriously, it is all good to me. Threads sometimes get off what the original author posted about, simply because the responses take it in a different direction.

WVRed
03-23-2012, 08:58 PM
No problems at UK as far as I know, but Cal has been associated with NBA jobs every year he has been at UK, and I'm guessing they will continue until the day he actually does leave/retire.

Cal is the "sexy" pick from the current rank of college coaches to go to the NBA and I'm guessing the rumors will never cease.

I'm one of the few UK fans who feel this way, but I think this is Cal's last year at Kentucky if he wins it all. It's the perfect storm:

1. This team is likely to lose a LOT of players. Miller and Vargas to graduation, as well as the possibility of Lamb, TJ, MKG, Davis, and Teague all going pro. This team will return Kyle Wiltjer as the only player to log significant minutes on this team. Ryan Harrow will be eligible after sitting out from transferring from NC State, and Jon Hood is recovering from a torn ACL.

2. In addition to players, the coaching staff is in flux. Kenny Payne and Orlando Antigua are in consideration for head coaching jobs and that decision becomes easier if Kentucky wins it all. Last I've heard is Payne to Mississippi State and Antigua to Duquesne. John Robic will be the only one on staff and he will follow Cal wherever he goes.

If you think about it, Cal is losing up to SEVEN players and two top assistants. Not to mention the teams Cal has had in the past have been a mixture of upperclassmen and young players. There is no Patrick Patterson, Perry Stevenson, Ramon Harris, Josh Harrellson, or Darius Miller on next years team, unless you count Jon Hood, who will be a redshirt junior. I understand the recruiting class Cal has coming in (potentially) next season, but this is why I think the NBA has more allure:

1. Cal is not the same coach as Rick Pitino when Pitino left for the Celtics. In order to be a successful NBA coach, you have to have a "niche". Cal didn't have that with the Nets and Pitino still doesn't have one, just motivation. You can motivate a kid with a scholarship. You have to work harder or have a system to get millionaires who make more than the coach to work. Cal has that now with the Dribble Drive.

2. If Cal does leave for the NBA I think it will be two teams, either the Knicks or the Wizards:

Knicks: I know Carmelo Anthony is example A, B, C, and D as to why Cal won't work, but this team is BUILT for the dribble drive, especially with Jeremy Lin running the point. Do you think Cal wouldn't like to work with Linsanity? Especially with Carmelo and Stoudemire waiting to knock down open shots? Not to mention the Knicks are one of the elite teams in the league, and Cal has a big ego.

Wizards: Washington has a very good chance of landing a top 4 pick. They already have John Wall, one of the rising stars in the league. Wouldn't you love to be a coach and have an inside-out combination of John Wall and Anthony Davis?

Thats why I think if Cal leaves, this will be the year. If he doesn't, he may not get an opportunity to do so again. If he did something and is skipping town, we will discuss that when something comes to light.

Hoosier Red
03-24-2012, 12:06 AM
Well that was intense in exhausted and there's still a half to go. Way ford with a beast effort to keep IU in it

Razor Shines
03-24-2012, 01:40 AM
That went about as expected. Nice season. Going to the sweet 16 as a 4 and losing to number 1 overall is nothing to complain about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gilpdawg
03-24-2012, 01:56 AM
I'm so proud of this team and the year we had. Lost to a better team tonight but we left it all out on that floor. Nobody on that team needs to hang their head for the way they played tonight. Kentucky is just too good.

George Foster
03-24-2012, 02:55 AM
I'm glad u guys are "back." College basketball is better when Indiana is Indiana. Great season. Go cats.

jmac
03-24-2012, 10:22 AM
Just want to say to the IU fans, that was a great game and you would have beat most any other team in the country last night.
As I set there and watched that, I wondered how IU had lost the games they had during the season.
I dont follow IU so I may get theses names spelled wrong but you will know who I am talking about.
Zeller is a force to be reckoned with on the inside.
The other one that impressed me greatly is Oladeepo. Every time he drove the ball, he seemed to score. Watford has a strange shot release but it seems to go in more often than not. The guy who ran the point is very impressive too.
IU is certainly back and getting better. It will be easier to root for them too with Crean there as opposed to Knight or Davis for that matter.
UK and IU played 2 classic games this season !

SunDeck
03-24-2012, 10:42 AM
I think it's kind of funny that Crean and Calipari are good friends, given the stuff that's been said here.
Just sayin'.

Very happy for the Hoosiers. Bloomington is more fun when this team is playing well, and although I think most IU fans have a somewhat anachronistic viewpoint about what big time college sports really is, I do appreciate the fact that they truly have an expectation for running a clean program that you won't find everywhere.
As for Crean, being a UC alum, I watched the guy with interest when he kept frustrating the heck out of Huggin's teams and had hoped he could have been brought in to replace him, so I was really optimistic to see him brought in at IU. He's in the midst of bringing the Hoosier family back together again and it's really fun to watch from close up.

Also: I'm at work in downtown B-town this morning and one of our "no smoking" signs did end up at Taco bell three blocks from here....but at least the Showalter fountain fish are safe and sound.

Assembly Hall
03-24-2012, 11:04 AM
It was one of the most purist cbb games I have seen in a long time. 35-37 free throws is hard to overcome but the Hoosiers kept it interesting. Great ball game.

I really hope it stays this way for UK and IU. It has been an intense rivalry for along time. And it is even better when both programs are Top 5 caliber. The heck with Duke-UNC, I want UK-IU.

SunDeck
03-24-2012, 12:06 PM
I'd start by keeping the games at the home courts and not in places like Indy. A big part of Duke/UNC is Cameron Indoor, which is like watching a game inside a high school arena, but with the noise of an airport runway. Assembly Hall in the first IU/UK game this year finally reached that decibel level again- good to see the students turning out and going crazy. Watching all the red sweaters and white hair with their arms crossed all game was getting pretty depressing.

Assembly Hall
03-24-2012, 01:29 PM
I'd start by keeping the games at the home courts and not in places like Indy. A big part of Duke/UNC is Cameron Indoor, which is like watching a game inside a high school arena, but with the noise of an airport runway. Assembly Hall in the first IU/UK game this year finally reached that decibel level again- good to see the students turning out and going crazy. Watching all the red sweaters and white hair with their arms crossed all game was getting pretty depressing.

I do believe when they played those games on "neutral" floors it was all about ticket sales.

IU/UK is a tad bit different than Duke/NC. They are neighboring states that do not play in the same conference, and they are 2 storied programs. The only comparison I can think of on their rivalry plane does not exist anymore. And that would be Texas/Oklahoma in football, but now they are in the same conference. Missouri/Illinois is about the only other one that comes close in CBB, but they aint got banners hanging in their arenas.

I guess what I am saying is that Duke/UNC is like IU/Purdue, Kansas/Kansas St., Texas/Texas A&m......the difference being that Duke/UNC are both perenniel Top Ten teams.

IU/UK is something different out there. I dont care where the game is played at. I just want it to get back to where it was in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's. And that was where the whole nation was watching them on a Saturday afternoon in December. It looks like it is back to that.

fearofpopvol1
03-24-2012, 04:45 PM
Great season for IU basketball. IU played a great game and for that, I can't be too upset. In a lot of respects, I think it may have been the best game they played offensively all season. 90 points against Kentucky was a season high against them.

I think their downfall was a.) their 3 point shooting wasn't a factor, b.) their defense didn't show up (or they were overmatched--could be either), c.) Zeller wasn't as aggressive or as involved in the 2nd half and d.) Kentucky was just sick from the charity stripe. 95% from the line with over 30 attempts? Ridiculous.

I have to agree with jmac. I honestly believe that if IU had played anyone else last night not named Kentucky, I think they would have won.

Hoosier Red
03-24-2012, 09:50 PM
Great season for IU basketball. IU played a great game and for that, I can't be too upset. In a lot of respects, I think it may have been the best game they played offensively all season. 90 points against Kentucky was a season high against them.

I think their downfall was a.) their 3 point shooting wasn't a factor, b.) their defense didn't show up (or they were overmatched--could be either), c.) Zeller wasn't as aggressive or as involved in the 2nd half and d.) Kentucky was just sick from the charity stripe. 95% from the line with over 30 attempts? Ridiculous.

I have to agree with jmac. I honestly believe that if IU had played anyone else last night not named Kentucky, I think they would have won.

I agree with a lot of this analysis. A friend of mine said before the game that IU had played about 4 or 5 games all season that would beat the "average" Kentucky performance. I think they played another one last night. Unfortunately Kentucky just played well above it's exceptional average.

WVRed
03-25-2012, 12:43 AM
I do believe when they played those games on "neutral" floors it was all about ticket sales.

IU/UK is a tad bit different than Duke/NC. They are neighboring states that do not play in the same conference, and they are 2 storied programs. The only comparison I can think of on their rivalry plane does not exist anymore. And that would be Texas/Oklahoma in football, but now they are in the same conference. Missouri/Illinois is about the only other one that comes close in CBB, but they aint got banners hanging in their arenas.

I guess what I am saying is that Duke/UNC is like IU/Purdue, Kansas/Kansas St., Texas/Texas A&m......the difference being that Duke/UNC are both perenniel Top Ten teams.

IU/UK is something different out there. I dont care where the game is played at. I just want it to get back to where it was in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's. And that was where the whole nation was watching them on a Saturday afternoon in December. It looks like it is back to that.

I'm glad somebody brought this up because I was wondering where IU stood on this.

UK is looking into changing up their schedule next season and is likely dropping UNC due to a large number of road games/neutral site games. Cal is wanting the matchup to go back to the original neutral site format which would likely be in Louisville/Indianapolis.

I actually wouldn't mind doing the yearly Freedom Hall game every year against Indiana. Politics might be the only thing that would stand in the way (state of Kentucky getting revenue), but with Indiana right across the state border, its a neutral location and UK/IU fans would be split 50/50. Think of it as The Red River Rivalry in basketball. One location every year and a tradition to boot.

Assembly Hall
03-25-2012, 10:49 AM
I'm glad somebody brought this up because I was wondering where IU stood on this.

UK is looking into changing up their schedule next season and is likely dropping UNC due to a large number of road games/neutral site games. Cal is wanting the matchup to go back to the original neutral site format which would likely be in Louisville/Indianapolis.

I actually wouldn't mind doing the yearly Freedom Hall game every year against Indiana. Politics might be the only thing that would stand in the way (state of Kentucky getting revenue), but with Indiana right across the state border, its a neutral location and UK/IU fans would be split 50/50. Think of it as The Red River Rivalry in basketball. One location every year and a tradition to boot.

I know back a few years ago Kentucky wanted the game to be in Indy every year due to the seating capacity.

But the neutral site thing ended when because of a scheduling conflict with the arena at Louisville, the game was played at Kentucky.

But I think Louisville would be the perfect location for the game.:thumbup:

cumberlandreds
03-26-2012, 09:27 AM
Just wanted to congratulate the IU fans on a very good game the other night. IU played UK as tough as anyone. They made a lot of really difficult shots and just kept coming. You all should be really excited for the future. If Zeller and Watford come back you should be at least top 10 good, maybe top 5. IU is back and its good for all of college basketball. College Basketball needs its crown jewels to be good all the time. IU is back and now it needs UCLA back. West coast basketball isn't good at all and they need them back to being relevant.

Assembly Hall
03-26-2012, 11:17 AM
Just wanted to congratulate the IU fans on a very good game the other night. IU played UK as tough as anyone. They made a lot of really difficult shots and just kept coming. You all should be really excited for the future. If Zeller and Watford come back you should be at least top 10 good, maybe top 5. IU is back and its good for all of college basketball. College Basketball needs its crown jewels to be good all the time. IU is back and now it needs UCLA back. West coast basketball isn't good at all and they need them back to being relevant.

Appreciate the comments. Barring any losses to the NBA or defections. IU will return their starting 5 plus 2 key guys off the bench. Add a fine recruiting class coming in next year that includes a true point guard and they should be up there.

IU is back, but the B1G is still gonna be brutal.

I agree on the UCLA thing. Heck, even Arizona.

bucksfan2
03-26-2012, 02:27 PM
Appreciate the comments. Barring any losses to the NBA or defections. IU will return their starting 5 plus 2 key guys off the bench. Add a fine recruiting class coming in next year that includes a true point guard and they should be up there.

IU is back, but the B1G is still gonna be brutal.

I agree on the UCLA thing. Heck, even Arizona.

I am beginning to think that Watford and Zeller will enter the NBA draft. Zeller if he is a top 10 pick and Watford depending on where he is going to go. This time of year you always have they guys entering the draft who shouldn't. The BIG landscape could really chanve if Watford, Zeller, Sullinger, Thomas, and Burke all decide to enter the draft.

Assembly Hall
03-26-2012, 03:58 PM
I am beginning to think that Watford and Zeller will enter the NBA draft. Zeller if he is a top 10 pick and Watford depending on where he is going to go. This time of year you always have they guys entering the draft who shouldn't. The BIG landscape could really chanve if Watford, Zeller, Sullinger, Thomas, and Burke all decide to enter the draft.



I dont see Zellar going pro. Both his older brothers graduated from their prospective colleges, I think Cody will follow suit. Now Watford just might. But I think he has hung around this long, he just might want to get some fruits for his labor. The guy on IU that I think will go is Oladipo. I just base that on what is coming in. They have a point guard, a power forward, a center, and 2 swing men. I think that playing time is gonna be the concern on Victor's part. I see Yogi and Hanner getting lots of minutes if not starting.

WVRed
03-26-2012, 04:24 PM
I dont see Zellar going pro. Both his older brothers graduated from their prospective colleges, I think Cody will follow suit. Now Watford just might. But I think he has hung around this long, he just might want to get some fruits for his labor. The guy on IU that I think will go is Oladipo. I just base that on what is coming in. They have a point guard, a power forward, a center, and 2 swing men. I think that playing time is gonna be the concern on Victor's part. I see Yogi and Hanner getting lots of minutes if not starting.

I don't see Oladipo being drafted very high if he comes out. He's athletic and has size, but no other skills to really speak of. That's why a lot of UK fans are hoping MKG comes back to work on a jump shot and extend himself to the perimeter. I think Oladipo will be a star in Bloomington if he returns, regardless of who is coming in. His stock will be higher next year.

Zeller needs to stay in school as well, if only because this year is so deep thanks to the freshman class and the sophomores that stayed put due to the draft. Davis, Robinson, and Sullinger will go ahead of Zeller this year. Next year he could be a top 5 pick.

The one I see going is Watford. Crean will have a lot more to work with next season and Watford's stock I think is as high as its going to get. I see a logjam of Ferrell, Watford, Hulls, and Oladipo if that happens.

Hoosier Red
03-26-2012, 05:10 PM
I don't see Oladipo being drafted very high if he comes out. He's athletic and has size, but no other skills to really speak of. That's why a lot of UK fans are hoping MKG comes back to work on a jump shot and extend himself to the perimeter. I think Oladipo will be a star in Bloomington if he returns, regardless of who is coming in. His stock will be higher next year.

Zeller needs to stay in school as well, if only because this year is so deep thanks to the freshman class and the sophomores that stayed put due to the draft. Davis, Robinson, and Sullinger will go ahead of Zeller this year. Next year he could be a top 5 pick.

The one I see going is Watford. Crean will have a lot more to work with next season and Watford's stock I think is as high as its going to get. I see a logjam of Ferrell, Watford, Hulls, and Oladipo if that happens.

I agree with all of this. Despite the deep draft, I've heard projections for Cody as high as top 5. If Cody comes back he'll get stronger and will finish a lot of those plays where he's been fouled. And I agree, I'd be surprised if he went.

Scrap Irony
03-26-2012, 05:27 PM
Were I an NBA GM, I'd draft Zeller in the top five.

Heck, depending on the team, he could do as high as number two.

A center who doesn't mind contact, can put the ball on the floor, and shoot from 15? One that's young, tough, and plays decent defense already?

Yes, please.

Too, as he pushes his range, he could very well play both PF and C.

I'd definitely take him before Andre Drummond, despite the talent differential. Zeller's a horse. Drummond's a question mark.

Todd Gack
03-27-2012, 08:41 AM
If Zeller and Watford (esp. Zeller) went pro, next year would be a deflating experience for IU. You guys have been looking forward to next year for a while now. Great thing about this year is Crean brought the program back to dominance. Bad part is expectations are through the roof. Only reason it's bad is if IU doesn't come through with those expectations.

Hoosier Red
03-27-2012, 09:07 AM
It would be disappointing no doubt. It's funny because I feel like I've been the cheerleader the last three years, suggesting that things weren't as bad as they appeared. Now, I feel like I have to play traffic cop and throw a wet blanket on the expectations. It's probably unrealistic for any team to expect a national championship or even a final four, much less one that will be counting heavily on 5 freshmen.

But I feel like that's the expectation put on IU right now.

Scrap Irony
03-27-2012, 10:14 AM
Most of the state of Kentucky would look at you quizzically about pressure and expectation.

Those rational fans would nod in understanding.

(There aren't many of the latter.)

Todd Gack
03-27-2012, 10:24 AM
Most of the state of Kentucky would look at you quizzically about pressure and expectation.

Those rational fans would nod in understanding.

(There aren't many of the latter.)

I have nothing wrong with UK's fans expectations. They should expect a NC every year. As should Red Sox/Yankees/Steelers/Cowboys/etc fans.

Assembly Hall
03-27-2012, 10:59 AM
If there are no defections from the current squad. IU will probably be a Top 5 pre-season selection. One could argue that they might even be pre-season #1 depending on how things shake out at other schools. Regardless, a sweet sixteen appearance this year would naturally raise the expectation level for next year with basically the same team returning with some nice additions.

Razor Shines
03-27-2012, 11:57 AM
It would be disappointing no doubt. It's funny because I feel like I've been the cheerleader the last three years, suggesting that things weren't as bad as they appeared. Now, I feel like I have to play traffic cop and throw a wet blanket on the expectations. It's probably unrealistic for any team to expect a national championship or even a final four, much less one that will be counting heavily on 5 freshmen.

But I feel like that's the expectation put on IU right now.

I've been right there with you and feel the same way now. I was expecting a run like this season out of the class coming in and that hasn't changed for me.


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Hoosier Red
03-27-2012, 12:25 PM
If there are no defections from the current squad. IU will probably be a Top 5 pre-season selection. One could argue that they might even be pre-season #1 depending on how things shake out at other schools. Regardless, a sweet sixteen appearance this year would naturally raise the expectation level for next year with basically the same team returning with some nice additions.

There's a bit of a fallacy that "We did X this year, so next year it should be X + 1" Next year doesn't care what this year did.

Even with everyone coming back and great recruiting class, expecting any result over the course of one season is difficult to live up to and you'll eventually get anchored to an unreasonable expectation.

I think the strength of the program will be measured over the course of say 5 years. I think every 5 years, it's not unrealistic to expect 4 Sweet Sixteens and a Final Four with a NC every 10 years or so. But to expect a FF or NC one year or the next, it only sets a fan base up for disappointment.

Scrap Irony
03-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Final Fours are like the baseball playoffs, IMO.

the trick is just getting to the Final Four. That in itself makes for a successful season.

National Championships are great (especially when you're a student/ covering one for the team you "follow"), but I think it'll make you miserable expecting one.

BillDoran
03-27-2012, 05:55 PM
Whither Maurice Creek?

gilpdawg
03-27-2012, 06:59 PM
I have a feeling Wat is going to leave.

Assembly Hall
03-28-2012, 08:04 AM
There's a bit of a fallacy that "We did X this year, so next year it should be X + 1" Next year doesn't care what this year did.

Even with everyone coming back and great recruiting class, expecting any result over the course of one season is difficult to live up to and you'll eventually get anchored to an unreasonable expectation.

I think the strength of the program will be measured over the course of say 5 years. I think every 5 years, it's not unrealistic to expect 4 Sweet Sixteens and a Final Four with a NC every 10 years or so. But to expect a FF or NC one year or the next, it only sets a fan base up for disappointment.

I dont agree with that. My expectations are based on the squad that is returning and past history regarding such. More often than not a team loses key players from one year to the next, so expectations change accordingly to those losses. If you got a starting five coming back on a team that defeated a #1, #2, and #5 during the regular season, received a #4 seed in the tourney, got defeated by the #1 overall seed in the sweet sixteen in a hard fought game.....it is only natural to expect a little more next year.

Hoosier Red
03-28-2012, 09:28 AM
That's true AH, however part of what makes fans expectations swing back and forth are how a team performs in a given year.

I think last year's team underperformed relative to the talent level. I think this year's team probably overperformed, if not to the talent level, at least to everyone's expectations.

That's why I try not to set expectations of any particular round in the tournament beyond the sweet 16. IMO the best way to measure greatness is more through consistency. How many B1G Ten championships and Sweet 16's. Once you get to that point, the talent difference is likely much smaller and it can depend on matchups and luck and a number of other factors that to pin expectations on any one year is likely to only lead to disappointment.

I'm admittedly a lower bar to clear, but it leaves room for the team to exceed my expectation level.

Hoosier Red
03-28-2012, 09:57 AM
Bah DP

Assembly Hall
03-29-2012, 05:43 AM
I cant disagree with alot of what you said there Hoosier Red. I too would say last years team under-achieved and this years team over-achieved only on expectation levels.

I too would say that sweet sixteens are a measuring stick, as well as B1G regular season or tournament championships.

I dont know how old you are Hoosier Red, but let me ask you these questions.

What were IU fans expectations in 76?

What were IU fans expectations in 81?

What were IU fans expectations in 93?

The fact of the matter is that barring defections and early entries IU will return all 5 starters back from a pretty successful team. If and I say if all 5 starters return it would be only natural to expect a step above what they did this year.

Hoosier Red
03-29-2012, 10:15 AM
I cant disagree with alot of what you said there Hoosier Red. I too would say last years team under-achieved and this years team over-achieved only on expectation levels.

I too would say that sweet sixteens are a measuring stick, as well as B1G regular season or tournament championships.

I dont know how old you are Hoosier Red, but let me ask you these questions.

What were IU fans expectations in 76?

What were IU fans expectations in 81?

What were IU fans expectations in 93?

The fact of the matter is that barring defections and early entries IU will return all 5 starters back from a pretty successful team. If and I say if all 5 starters return it would be only natural to expect a step above what they did this year.

I'm not quite old enough to rememeber '76 or '81. I remember the '87 Natl Championship where we were all cheering for IU because they went through Cincinnati. The first game I saw at THE Assembly Hall I was cheering for the Cincinnati Bearcats in 1993. I remember thinking at the time as I watched from the balcony, "Wow, they sure give opposing fans some terrible seats." Little did I know that those terrible seats were only available because it was Christmas break and I'd be sitting in those seats 4 years later. My point to this is that because I've pretty much only known "IU Basketball: The mediocre years" I'm probably not the person to ask.

And despite my protests for restraint, in my heart of hearts I'd be disappointed if they don't go further next year then this year. But my overall point is that exactly because it's natural to expect more from next year's team than this year's team, we should always keep the long view in mind. In the tournament especially, upsets happen, even if IU's better next year than this year, they may not necessarily go further. But over the course of 5-10 years, if you are consistently putting yourself in position, that will eventually even out.

I remember last spring Joe Morgan said something I found really interesting when he was talking about the Reds. He said something along the lines of how difficult it was for a young team to understand they weren't starting at 90 wins(the total from 2010.) They were starting at 0. IU's team may start next season in the top 5, in fact if everyone comes back I'd be surprised if they don't. But they're still 0-0. They haven't defeated the 2012-2013 version of UK, tOSU, tMSU, or Michigan. They haven't even defeated the 2012-2013 version of tPSU.

Assembly Hall
03-29-2012, 11:05 AM
Well I would say last year's Reds team was a disappointment. But comparing major league baseball to men's college basketball is like comparing apples to oranges.

With that being said, basketball is about who is on the team and what other teams have lost. People prognosticate each and every year about these facts and set their expectations accordingly. And as fans of whatever program, we do the same.

Hoosier Red
03-29-2012, 11:38 AM
Well I would say last year's Reds team was a disappointment. But comparing major league baseball to men's college basketball is like comparing apples to oranges.

With that being said, basketball is about who is on the team and what other teams have lost. People prognosticate each and every year about these facts and set their expectations accordingly. And as fans of whatever program, we do the same.

I think we're pretty much thinking along the same lines. I expect the team to be really good next year and be a front runner for the B1G Ten crown. I think they'll be a favorite to make it to the Final Four when the tournament begins.

I guess, it's not so much about holding back on those expectations so much as putting too much weight on them for any one year. In terms of fans expectations, a good number of people wanted to run Crean out of town after the 2011 season, and many of those people are outraged that he wasn't coach of the year because they had such low expectations going in.

That's where the long view comes in. If they're upset in the sweet 16 of the tournament next year, it will be a disappointment but it wouldn't prove that Crean is incapable of being the guy to guide them to the Final Four any more than a National Championship wouldn't make him the greatest coach on the planet. It's all about the long term and that's not something you can judge over one year or two years disappointments or exceeded expectations.

Earlier in the season I made the point about Brad Stevens. I think he's an excellent coach. I think Butler is extraordinarily lucky to have found him and I hope he's the coach there forever because he's a fantastic coach. But I would have said that he was a fantastic coach even if Butler had lost to Murray State in 2010 or had they lost to Old Dominion or Pittsburgh last year.

In order to advance to the Final Four, you of course need to be a good team and play well. But you also need to catch a few breaks along the way. Kentucky was probably more talented then any other team in the tournament this year, but if they don't hit 95% of their free throws against IU, they might have been sent packing.(That's not to say the win was a fluke UK fans, simply pointing out that it took a well above average performance to beat IU.) And let's not fool ourselves, despite the excellent recruiting class, IU's talent level compared to the rest of the nation will not be as overwhelming as Kentucky's is this year.

Assembly Hall
03-30-2012, 08:37 AM
I know exactly what you are saying Hoosier Red. As a life-long IU basketball fan I have had my share of agonizing disappointments with the program due to unexpected developments. I never questioned the coaching.

I mentioned those years above because in the previous seasons those teams were highly successful.

IU has won 3 NCs in my lifetime. '76, '81, '87. I would say that Indiana had the talent to win it in '74, '75, '79, '80, '82, '83, '86, '89, '91, '92, and '93. In each of the years I mentioned the cards just didnt fall right due to early entries, injuries, or just plain getting beat on a given day. I never questioned the coaching.

IU is an elite program. Expectations will be accordingly.

redsfanmia
03-30-2012, 07:58 PM
I know exactly what you are saying Hoosier Red. As a life-long IU basketball fan I have had my share of agonizing disappointments with the program due to unexpected developments. I never questioned the coaching.

I mentioned those years above because in the previous seasons those teams were highly successful.

IU has won 3 NCs in my lifetime. '76, '81, '87. I would say that Indiana had the talent to win it in '74, '75, '79, '80, '82, '83, '86, '89, '91, '92, and '93. In each of the years I mentioned the cards just didnt fall right due to early entries, injuries, or just plain getting beat on a given day. I never questioned the coaching.

IU is an elite program. Expectations will be accordingly.

IU was set up to win it in 75, 92 and 93 the 86 team was solid but had no chance to win it all. The 89 team over acheived and the 91 team was really young. I think IU was talented enough to win 3-4 more titles under Coach Knight 75,83,92 and 93.

Assembly Hall
03-31-2012, 01:03 AM
IU was set up to win it in 75, 92 and 93 the 86 team was solid but had no chance to win it all. The 89 team over acheived and the 91 team was really young. I think IU was talented enough to win 3-4 more titles under Coach Knight 75,83,92 and 93.

The '86 team was the same team that won it in '87. The '91 team was the same team in '92 and '93. The '89 team got beat by Seton Hall in the sweet sixteen and Illinois and Michigan made it to the FF that year. The '79-'83 teams were stacked. Knight kicked 2 starters off in '79. Mike Woodson got injured in '80. They won it in '81. Isiah Thomas went pro and Landon Turner got paralyzed before the '82 season.

Ownagedood
03-31-2012, 11:17 AM
IU is going to be extremely good next year, no question. If all the starters return they will pull a top 5 preseason rating. IU has the 4th best recruiting class in the nation this next year, so its going to be very exciting to watch all those guys put it together. I have high hopes for a final 4 appearance. Maybe it wont happen, but next years team is going to be a beast to try and beat.

redsfanmia
03-31-2012, 03:27 PM
The '86 team was the same team that won it in '87. The '91 team was the same team in '92 and '93. The '89 team got beat by Seton Hall in the sweet sixteen and Illinois and Michigan made it to the FF that year. The '79-'83 teams were stacked. Knight kicked 2 starters off in '79. Mike Woodson got injured in '80. They won it in '81. Isiah Thomas went pro and Landon Turner got paralyzed before the '82 season.

The 86 team did not have Dean Garrett and Keith Smart and their starting center was 6'6" Andre Harris, they were a solid but not spectacular team.

The 89 team overacheived and played 3 guards most of the year and Jay Edwards won like 3-4 games on last second shots.

The 82 team also lost Ray Tolbert who had a good career in the NBA, they were in rebuilding mode that season.

The 91 team was lead by a ton of sophomores and Eric Anderson, they were good but not quite ready to win.

Revering4Blue
03-31-2012, 04:18 PM
The 86 team did not have Dean Garrett and Keith Smart and their starting center was 6'6" Andre Harris, they were a solid but not spectacular team.

The 89 team overacheived and played 3 guards most of the year and Jay Edwards won like 3-4 games on last second shots.

The 82 team also lost Ray Tolbert who had a good career in the NBA, they were in rebuilding mode that season.

The 91 team was lead by a ton of sophomores and Eric Anderson, they were good but not quite ready to win.

Exactly right.

The 91 team was the same as 92 and 93? Uh, no.

The 91 team didn't have Alan Henderson, whose unfortunate injury in 93 may well have cost the team at least a Final Four appearance. That team was steamrolling everybody.

Assembly Hall
04-01-2012, 07:32 AM
The 86 team did not have Dean Garrett and Keith Smart and their starting center was 6'6" Andre Harris, they were a solid but not spectacular team.

The 89 team overacheived and played 3 guards most of the year and Jay Edwards won like 3-4 games on last second shots.

The 82 team also lost Ray Tolbert who had a good career in the NBA, they were in rebuilding mode that season.

The 91 team was lead by a ton of sophomores and Eric Anderson, they were good but not quite ready to win.

In '86 they dang near won the B1G. Finished second behind Michigan. I know they didnt have Garrett or Smart. But they did have a young guy by the name of Calloway that was on his game. They were a 3 seed in the tournament.

The '89 team might have overachieved. But the fact of the matter is, going into the tournament they were a 2 seed.

The '82 team was set to return 4 starters from the previous year along with their 6th man. Tolbert graduated but the pieces were there to make another run. Isiah went pro and Landon Turner got in an auto accident ending his career.

The '91 team was tough. Although they were a sophomore laden team along with Eric Anderson and Damon Bailey, they were a Top 5 team. I believe they only lost 4 regular season games, and received a 2 seed in the tourney where they got beat by a 3 seed in Kansas.

Geez, I love talking about this stuff!!!!!!!!!!;)

Assembly Hall
04-01-2012, 07:45 AM
Exactly right.

The 91 team was the same as 92 and 93? Uh, no.

The 91 team didn't have Alan Henderson, whose unfortunate injury in 93 may well have cost the team at least a Final Four appearance. That team was steamrolling everybody.

The '91 team didnt have Brian Evans either. LOL

The '91 team ended the year as the #3 team in the AP poll. Although Henderson's addition was extremely valuable, all the pieces were in place for the '92 team already. The opened that year up as the pre-season #2.

You are right on Henderson's injury in '93. That one hurt.

Assembly Hall
04-01-2012, 07:47 AM
IU is going to be extremely good next year, no question. If all the starters return they will pull a top 5 preseason rating. IU has the 4th best recruiting class in the nation this next year, so its going to be very exciting to watch all those guys put it together. I have high hopes for a final 4 appearance. Maybe it wont happen, but next years team is going to be a beast to try and beat.

I am right there with ya!!!!!!!!!!!

SunDeck
04-01-2012, 08:19 AM
The '91 team didnt have Brian Evans either. LOL

The '91 team ended the year as the #3 team in the AP poll. Although Henderson's addition was extremely valuable, all the pieces were in place for the '92 team already. The opened that year up as the pre-season #2.

You are right on Henderson's injury in '93. That one hurt.

Brian Evans was one of my all time favorite IU players. Never saw a guy dislocate his shoulder and pop it back in on the court. Kid was nails.

redsfanmia
04-01-2012, 10:23 AM
Brian Evans was one of my all time favorite IU players. Never saw a guy dislocate his shoulder and pop it back in on the court. Kid was nails.

The infamous Neil Reed did it too.

Assembly Hall
04-01-2012, 12:48 PM
The infamous Neil Reed did it too.


LOL.........but when Neil did it, he had tears in his eyes!;)

SunDeck
04-01-2012, 12:50 PM
The infamous Neil Reed did it too.

I forgot about that.

Assembly Hall
04-01-2012, 03:37 PM
I forgot about that.

As my Grandma would say........he was one "powty" guy. :D

redsfanmia
04-01-2012, 04:44 PM
I always thought Neil was tough and I liked him, it's a shame that his name is mud for getting choked by Coach Knight.

Assembly Hall
04-01-2012, 04:50 PM
I always thought Neil was tough and I liked him, it's a shame that his name is mud for getting choked by Coach Knight.

Well, you got to admit he always looked like he was going to cry. I liked him as well. I think Ron Felling had something to do with that vid. But you got your opinion and I got mine.

Razor Shines
04-01-2012, 04:57 PM
I always thought Neil was tough and I liked him, it's a shame that his name is mud for getting choked by Coach Knight.

I didn't like him long before that happened. He always reminded me of Rade from Hoosiers.


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Assembly Hall
04-01-2012, 05:03 PM
I didn't like him long before that happened. He always reminded me of Rade from Hoosiers.


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EZ......I know Rade from Hoosiers. That was just an "acting job"!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO..........but you are right!!!!!!!

Razor Shines
04-01-2012, 07:21 PM
EZ......I know Rade from Hoosiers. That was just an "acting job"!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO..........but you are right!!!!!!!

Obviously I know it was an acting job. I don't think that Gene Hackman really punched some kid and was kicked out of college basketball.


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Assembly Hall
04-02-2012, 10:15 AM
Obviously I know it was an acting job. I don't think that Gene Hackman really punched some kid and was kicked out of college basketball.


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LOL.........I am saying Rade was like that in real life!!!!!!!!!!

Razor Shines
04-02-2012, 11:30 AM
LOL.........I am saying Rade was like that in real life!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, seemed like you were saying he wasn't like that. That's funny didn't know that about him.

Only one of the "Hoosiers" I ever met was Brad Long. Bought my high school class ring from him.


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Assembly Hall
04-02-2012, 12:46 PM
Oh, seemed like you were saying he wasn't like that. That's funny didn't know that about him.

Only one of the "Hoosiers" I ever met was Brad Long. Bought my high school class ring from him.


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Cool......btw Rade is a dentist now! I wonder what Neil Reed is doing?

SunDeck
04-03-2012, 03:32 PM
I always thought Neil was tough and I liked him, it's a shame that his name is mud for getting choked by Coach Knight.

I played basketball with him when he was in about the ninth grade, or whenever it was that his family moved to Bloomington. He was a very nice kid who made a lot of playground basketball players look silly. I guarded his left knee- that's about the only part of him I could consistently see.

Assembly Hall
04-03-2012, 06:18 PM
I played basketball with him when he was in about the ninth grade, or whenever it was that his family moved to Bloomington. He was a very nice kid who made a lot of playground basketball players look silly. I guarded his left knee- that's about the only part of him I could consistently see.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!:lol:

REDblooded
04-04-2012, 07:49 PM
Landon Turner... I never knew the name until reading this page...

When I was 18 I was heading to Columbus from Greensburg on a date. I thought I was through the curves, accelerated to 60, and saw that there was a 25 MPH S Curve sign at the last minute.

The cop that investigated the accident said that we were lucky to be alive, and that the car had flipped between a few trees that would have stopped it in mid-air similar to the way you would carry a mattress and box springs up a flight of stairs with a turn...

I was later told that an IU player had been paralyzed on the same stretch of road... Now I know who it was. Brings back some crazy memories... I remember watching (I was purely a passenger at that point) the sky, ground, sky, ground through the windshield before we finally landed on the wheels (breaking both axles)...

I only sprained my ankle even though we flipped bumper over bumper 2 times... Makes me feel even more lucky now.

Todd Gack
04-04-2012, 10:47 PM
Landon Turner... I never knew the name until reading this page...

When I was 18 I was heading to Columbus from Greensburg on a date. I thought I was through the curves, accelerated to 60, and saw that there was a 25 MPH S Curve sign at the last minute.

The cop that investigated the accident said that we were lucky to be alive, and that the car had flipped between a few trees that would have stopped it in mid-air similar to the way you would carry a mattress and box springs up a flight of stairs with a turn...

I was later told that an IU player had been paralyzed on the same stretch of road... Now I know who it was. Brings back some crazy memories... I remember watching (I was purely a passenger at that point) the sky, ground, sky, ground through the windshield before we finally landed on the wheels (breaking both axles)...

I only sprained my ankle even though we flipped bumper over bumper 2 times... Makes me feel even more lucky now.

You're from Greensburg?

REDblooded
04-04-2012, 11:31 PM
You're from Greensburg?


Live in Indy now, but graduated from there in 2000

fearofpopvol1
04-05-2012, 02:27 AM
Not to derail this thread, but there used to be a restaurant in Greensburg I think called The Pines? I think it's gone now. I remember going there a bunch when I grew up. All of my nonimmediate family lives in Cincinnati and I lived in Indianapolis most of my childhood and Greensburg was halfway so sometimes we would meet at The Pines (I think it was called).

SunDeck
04-05-2012, 06:19 AM
Landon Turner... I never knew the name until reading this page...

When I was 18 I was heading to Columbus from Greensburg on a date. I thought I was through the curves, accelerated to 60, and saw that there was a 25 MPH S Curve sign at the last minute.

The cop that investigated the accident said that we were lucky to be alive, and that the car had flipped between a few trees that would have stopped it in mid-air similar to the way you would carry a mattress and box springs up a flight of stairs with a turn...

I was later told that an IU player had been paralyzed on the same stretch of road... Now I know who it was. Brings back some crazy memories... I remember watching (I was purely a passenger at that point) the sky, ground, sky, ground through the windshield before we finally landed on the wheels (breaking both axles)...

I only sprained my ankle even though we flipped bumper over bumper 2 times... Makes me feel even more lucky now.

Are these the curves that wind around the Flatrock Creek, just west of Hartsville? If so, you may be pleased to know INDOT re-routed the road and has eliminated them. Thankfully. And thanks for the info about Turner; I didn't know that's where his accident was.

Assembly Hall
04-05-2012, 08:41 AM
Interesting stuff fellas. Turner was an enigma for 2 1/2 years at IU. He was always in and out of Knight's doghouse. That '81 team was highly touted at the beginning of the season but struggled early and headed into B1G play at 7-5. Suddenly a light bulb went on in Landon's head, and he was a force. They stormed through the opponents on their way to the title that year. I truly believe that had that tradgedy not happened that Landon Turner would have been a high caliber NBA player upon his graduation. As a gesture to how good they thought he was, Red Auerbach of the Celtics drafted him with a late round draft pick after the accident.

REDblooded
04-05-2012, 09:48 PM
Are these the curves that wind around the Flatrock Creek, just west of Hartsville? If so, you may be pleased to know INDOT re-routed the road and has eliminated them. Thankfully. And thanks for the info about Turner; I didn't know that's where his accident was.

Yup... I wrecked on the final curve before the bridge over the creek... landed right next to the water.

Hoosier Red
04-10-2012, 11:13 AM
IU announced that both Watford and Zeller are officially coming back.
The B1G is going to be stacked next year but it's certainly looks like everything is coming together for IU.

Now the question is who gets the boot to fix scholarship crunch.

Scrap Irony
04-10-2012, 02:40 PM
Now the question is who gets the boot to fix scholarship crunch.

Didn't the Big Ten officially ban that type of behavior among its bretheren?

fearofpopvol1
04-10-2012, 04:29 PM
Next year sure will be an exciting season. IU should be ranked preseason top 5. Anyone know the last time IU was ranked preseason top 5? I'm pretty sure they were ranked decently preseason the year Gordon was there, but I don't think it was top 5.

Hoosier Red
04-10-2012, 04:32 PM
Didn't the Big Ten officially ban that type of behavior among its bretheren?

Nope. You're allowed to oversign by 1.
My guess is if no one transfers, either Ron Patterson or Peter Jurking will go to prep school for a year.

Assembly Hall
04-11-2012, 08:15 AM
Next year sure will be an exciting season. IU should be ranked preseason top 5. Anyone know the last time IU was ranked preseason top 5? I'm pretty sure they were ranked decently preseason the year Gordon was there, but I don't think it was top 5.

If memory serves me right they were #9 AP preseason the year Gordon was there. I would have to say it would have been the 92-93 season.

fearofpopvol1
04-11-2012, 07:29 PM
If memory serves me right they were #9 AP preseason the year Gordon was there. I would have to say it would have been the 92-93 season.

Wow, that was a lifetime ago!

Assembly Hall
04-12-2012, 04:00 AM
Wow, that was a lifetime ago!

LOL........I did look it up. It was the 92-93 season.

fearofpopvol1
04-13-2012, 03:46 PM
LOL........I did look it up. It was the 92-93 season.

When that season would have started (or that preseason rank had come out), Bush the elder was still president for crying out loud!

Assembly Hall
04-13-2012, 05:22 PM
When that season would have started (or that preseason rank had come out), Bush the elder was still president for crying out loud!

More importantly, I hadnt gotten married yet! LOL That all changed in the spring of '93 and I aint been the same since.

But seriously, IU being ranked pre-season top 5 hasnt happened that many times at all. 73-74, 74-75, 75-76, 76-77, 79-80, 80-81, 84-85, 86-87, 91-92, and 92-93.

fearofpopvol1
04-13-2012, 11:47 PM
More importantly, I hadnt gotten married yet! LOL That all changed in the spring of '93 and I aint been the same since.

But seriously, IU being ranked pre-season top 5 hasnt happened that many times at all. 73-74, 74-75, 75-76, 76-77, 79-80, 80-81, 84-85, 86-87, 91-92, and 92-93.

Haha. That makes sense, though. IU was dominant in the 70s. They were pretty good in the 80's too. The 90's, not so much, especially the mid to late 90s.

Assembly Hall
04-14-2012, 08:42 AM
Haha. That makes sense, though. IU was dominant in the 70s. They were pretty good in the 80's too. The 90's, not so much, especially the mid to late 90s.

The 93-94 wasnt too dang bad. But the rest of the 90's was agonizing. IU started losing out on the best high school players in Indiana. However they did pretty good recruiting nationally. Unfortunately a lot of those prized recruits had lackluster careers. Although it seemed those teams were always winning 20+ games, they never challenged for the Big 10 title and never made it past the second round in the NCAA's.

redsfanmia
04-19-2012, 07:10 PM
Any word on Mo Creek? I hope he can come back and contribute next year.

Assembly Hall
04-20-2012, 07:51 AM
Any word on Mo Creek? I hope he can come back and contribute next year.

I have not heard or seen anything.

SunDeck
04-20-2012, 09:47 AM
With the starting five of UK heading off, word on the street here in Bloomington is that IU's preseason ranking has just reached #1.

In the world.
Of all time.
Including the NBA.

If the Hoosiers faced the starting five of Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kobe Bryant, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, they would win 125-6.

Cody Zeller just rescued a bus full of children from plunging into a quarry by throwing a basketball at the bus so hard that it was diverted away from the ledge and back onto the road.

Jordan Hulls switched his major to physics because he figured out how to make cold fusion work in his dad's garage.

Little 500 has been canceled because it was learned that the Hoosiers will have a pick up game at Bryan park at the same time.

Assembly Hall
04-20-2012, 02:31 PM
With the starting five of UK heading off, word on the street here in Bloomington is that IU's preseason ranking has just reached #1.

In the world.
Of all time.
Including the NBA.

If the Hoosiers faced the starting five of Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kobe Bryant, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, they would win 125-6.

Cody Zeller just rescued a bus full of children from plunging into a quarry by throwing a basketball at the bus so hard that it was diverted away from the ledge and back onto the road.

Jordan Hulls switched his major to physics because he figured out how to make cold fusion work in his dad's garage.

Little 500 has been canceled because it was learned that the Hoosiers will have a pick up game at Bryan park at the same time.

And what is your point?:confused:

SunDeck
04-20-2012, 03:10 PM
That Bloomington is a funny place. Please purchase your red sweater and proceed to sit down during the game if that rubbed you the wrong way. :)

redsfanmia
04-20-2012, 03:18 PM
That Bloomington is a funny place. Please purchase your red sweater and proceed to sit down during the game if that rubbed you the wrong way. :)

AHHHHHH the good old days.

Razor Shines
04-20-2012, 09:45 PM
http://p.twimg.com/Aq9iecDCQAEgQal.jpg:small

I wonder what IU fans that hate Cal think about this.


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