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Spitball
01-24-2012, 04:52 PM
Cordero has signed with the Blue Jays.


Blue Jays To Sign Francisco Cordero

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [January 24 at 3:26pm CST]

The Blue Jays agreed to sign right-handed reliever Francisco Cordero to a one-year, $4.5MM contract, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets. The Proformance client will set up for closer Sergio Santos, Rosenthal writes.

Cordero, 36, posted a 2.45 ERA with 5.4 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and a 50% ground ball rate in 69 2/3 innings for Cincinnati this past season. Cordero reached the 30-save plateau for the fifth consecutive season, saving 37 games. His average fastball velocity checked in at 93 mph, but peripheral stats such as xFIP (4.14) and SIERA (3.91) suggest his 2.45 ERA may be artificially low. He drew interest from other clubs, including the Angels, Orioles and Phillies.

The Blue Jays' bullpen will look considerably different in 2012, with newcomers Cordero, Jason Frasor, Sergio Santos and Darren Oliver joining holdovers Carlos Villanueva, Luis Perez, Jesse Litsch and Casey Janssen.

reds1869
01-24-2012, 05:01 PM
Good for Coco. He did a lot for the Cincinnati community and did it with minimal fanfare. Best wishes up north.

mattfeet
01-24-2012, 05:14 PM
As a set up guy? Wow. I woulda brought him back for that to compliment Marshall.

dougdirt
01-24-2012, 05:24 PM
As a set up guy? Wow. I woulda brought him back for that to compliment Marshall.

I wouldn't have. That is too much money for a pitcher who won't even be a set up guy, much less one who doesn't miss bats.

Kc61
01-24-2012, 05:33 PM
I think the Reds have devoted enough money to the bullpen.

Unlike many here, I believe in having guys like Madson and Marshall, and paying them. I don't believe that you can have a bullpen made up of cheap marginal veterans, rookies, and near-rookies.

But more dough for this pen would be overkill IMO. Indeed, I've wondered out loud if the team will keep Nick Masset's salary. It's best that Cordero moved along.

Focus now should be on shortstop. Team has a rookie starter there, which is fine, but they have to make sure there is adequate backup.

Meanwhile, Cordero did a fine job for the Reds. Durable reliever, generally did well in the big spots. Have to wish him good luck up north.

Blitz Dorsey
01-24-2012, 05:49 PM
Idiot Jon Heyman just said on Twitter that "Cordero=Heath Bell."

LOL. Amazing how dense some baseball writers can be. Yeah, Coco is as good as Bell. Does Heyman actually watch baseball games?

Jackwagon:

@JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
"poor coco. only $4.5M for cordero with #jays, according to @Ken_Rosenthal. and setting up. cordero = heath bell ($27M)"

remdog
01-24-2012, 05:57 PM
Good for Coco. He did a lot for the Cincinnati community and did it with minimal fanfare. Best wishes up north.

Yeah, he drove up the consumption of Zantac in Cicncinnati everytime he pitched.

Rem

remdog
01-24-2012, 05:58 PM
Idiot Jon Heyman just said on Twitter that "Cordero=Heath Bell."

LOL. Amazing how dense some baseball writers can be. Yeah, Coco is as good as Bell. Does Heyman actually watch baseball games?

Jackwagon:

@JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
"poor coco. only $4.5M for cordero with #jays, according to @Ken_Rosenthal. and setting up. cordero = heath bell ($27M)"

Are those Canadian Dollars?

Rem

Vottomatic
01-24-2012, 06:02 PM
Cordero has signed with the Blue Jays.

One team's garbage is another team's potpourri.

dougdirt
01-24-2012, 06:12 PM
Idiot Jon Heyman just said on Twitter that "Cordero=Heath Bell."

LOL. Amazing how dense some baseball writers can be. Yeah, Coco is as good as Bell. Does Heyman actually watch baseball games?

Jackwagon:

@JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
"poor coco. only $4.5M for cordero with #jays, according to @Ken_Rosenthal. and setting up. cordero = heath bell ($27M)"

Glad I wasn't the only one who saw that and chuckled.

Phhhl
01-24-2012, 06:24 PM
Cordero wasn't garbage. He did a good job here. Definately was a wild ride a lot of times, but I appreciate the work he did and wish him good luck moving forward.

dougdirt
01-24-2012, 06:26 PM
Cordero wasn't garbage. He did a good job here. Definately was a wild ride a lot of times, but I appreciate the work he did and wish him good luck moving forward.

He wasn't garbage while here, but that doesn't mean he is going to be any good next year either.

corkedbat
01-24-2012, 06:40 PM
He wasn't garbage while here, but that doesn't mean he is going to be any good next year either.

I didn't want to take another vhance on Coco> I wanted the pick, but Coco seems like a good guy and I appreciate his work for the Reds. I hope the best for him with the Jays.

Griffey012
01-24-2012, 07:03 PM
He wasn't garbage while here, but that doesn't mean he is going to be any good next year either.

I agree, Coco performed pretty well for us when it is all said and dont, but I look for Coco to have a very rough year as a set-up guy in Toronto. Think he would have had an OK year hear as a closer, but not as good as last year.

klw
01-24-2012, 07:03 PM
Cordero wasn't garbage. He did a good job here. Definately was a wild ride a lot of times, but I appreciate the work he did and wish him good luck moving forward.

Coco had a bizarre inability to close games against the Pirates the past two years and would falter when used 3+ games in a row but otherwise did a nice job for the Reds. I think many of the complaints about him were exacerbated by his contract but the $ was not his fault. I wish him well.

RedlegJake
01-24-2012, 07:22 PM
Coco was another player who pitched well for the Reds but got beat up over it regardless. Part of the problem was the fact he was probably overpaid and part of the problem was the fact that he rarely seemed to shut games down in slam dunk fashion - he got the job done but usually with accompanying heartburn. One thing I won't quibble with though it was time for him to go - all the numbers point to a decline already in progress - he got a bit lucky in 2011 - to bet on him going forward would be foolhardy. I think Toronto threw their money away but the Reds will gladly take the draft picks.

Ron Madden
01-25-2012, 04:23 AM
I don't like Cordero's chances pitching in the AL East.

cumberlandreds
01-25-2012, 08:04 AM
Despite Cordero putting us fans through the ringer nearly every time he came in to close, he normally did the job. I liked Cordero and he did a lot for the community too. I wish him well in Toronto.

Degenerate39
01-25-2012, 08:33 AM
I would've liked to seen him as the set up man for the Reds

redsmetz
01-25-2012, 10:20 AM
I don't like Cordero's chances pitching in the AL East.

Can you expand on this further, particularly in the role planned for him?

Slyder
01-25-2012, 10:46 AM
I would've liked to seen him as the set up man for the Reds

Not at 4.5 mil next, the cost of a pick, and us with a need maybe at LF and SS. The pen should be fine as it is, you can always find someone for relatively cheap at the deadline if it is still an issue.

I'd rather pocket that money now than to see the regression of Coco and not have the money to fix it later.

PuffyPig
01-25-2012, 10:58 AM
Despite Cordero putting us fans through the ringer nearly every time he came in to close, he normally did the job. I liked Cordero and he did a lot for the community too. I wish him well in Toronto.

Any average releiver could likely do the same thing. The odds always hugely favour any reliever getting the save when he starts the inning.

Cordero's performance last year got good results but his stats indicated he was being very lucky. He's due for a huge regression.

Sea Ray
01-25-2012, 11:03 AM
Coco had a bizarre inability to close games against the Pirates the past two years and would falter when used 3+ games in a row but otherwise did a nice job for the Reds. I think many of the complaints about him were exacerbated by his contract but the $ was not his fault. I wish him well.

No question his contract was a big deal and now is a good time to assess it. In hindsight I'd say it worked out for us afterall. Thoughts?

Sea Ray
01-25-2012, 11:06 AM
I wish him well as I think he was a good guy for us and I think he suffered from Dusty overusing him. One such example were the three blown saves he had around the All Star break but I'm not so sure a setup role will work for him. As I recall he didn't do as well in non save situations

mdccclxix
01-25-2012, 11:10 AM
If he wants to start throwing that slider that produced 9+ k per 9 again, he might see some renewed interest as a closer. It must hurt his arm.

RedsManRick
01-25-2012, 11:46 AM
No question his contract was a big deal and now is a good time to assess it. In hindsight I'd say it worked out for us afterall. Thoughts?

I'd say we could have saved just as many games while spending half as much -- or less. In my estimation, having an effective but not elite closer making more than 15% of the payroll was not a net positive contribution to the club's success during his tenure.

Ron Madden
01-25-2012, 11:48 AM
Can you expand on this further, particularly in the role planned for him?

I'll try. It's an observation or just my opinion that....

For the last two seasons Cordero has been getting a lot of hitters to swing at pitches outside the strikezone, mostly low and away.

Teams in the AL East like the Yankees and Red Sox see a lot of pitches, they see a lot of pitches because they are very good at not swinging at balls off the plate. Cordero throws almost everything off the plate. When he has to throw it over the plate these teams will light him up. jmho

RANDY IN INDY
01-25-2012, 12:00 PM
I'll try. It's an observation or just my opinion that....

For the last two seasons Cordero has been getting a lot of hitters to swing at pitches outside the strikezone, mostly low and away.

Teams in the AL East like the Yankees and Red Sox see a lot of pitches, they see a lot of pitches because they are very good at not swinging at balls off the plate. Cordero throws almost everything off the plate. When he has to throw it over the plate these teams will light him up. jmho

Great observation and I would agree. He will definitely have to make some adjustments in the AL east.

Sea Ray
01-25-2012, 12:06 PM
I'd say we could have saved just as many games while spending half as much -- or less. In my estimation, having an effective but not elite closer making more than 15% of the payroll was not a net positive contribution to the club's success during his tenure.

Maybe, maybe not. It's hard to play that game but I do think he gave them the productive they expected when he signed and that's all you can ask of a player

Vottomatic
01-25-2012, 12:55 PM
I wish him well and thank him for his service with the Reds. But his declining numbers and slowing fastball assure me that his best days are behind him.

He's been throwing that fastball on the outside corner more and more, and fails to move it around. He rarely uses his other pitches, if he has any. He flirts with disaster.

LegallyMinded
01-25-2012, 03:09 PM
No question his contract was a big deal and now is a good time to assess it. In hindsight I'd say it worked out for us afterall. Thoughts?

He signed a 4 year, 45 million dollar deal with the Reds, and over those 4 years Fangraphs pegged him at 2.8WAR, while BRef had him at 6.2WAR. Over the last few years, a win on the open market has cost about 5 million, so you're looking at an overpay of about 30 million, based on FG's WAR, or about 15 million, based on BRef's WAR.

Of course, there are other considerations in assessing a contract. If you think a particular player is, say, the last piece you need to put together a real contender, then maybe you're willing to overpay for him. In this case, though, I'd say the overpay for Cordero probably hindered the Reds in trying to fill obvious gaps at SS and LF over the last couple years. All in all, I'm glad to see the contract end.

757690
01-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Maybe, maybe not. It's hard to play that game but I do think he gave them the productive they expected when he signed and that's all you can ask of a player

I agree. The Reds won the division with him as the closer. Maybe they could have gone with someone cheaper, but it's hard to argue that his signing hurt the team.

Vottomatic
01-25-2012, 03:41 PM
His performance would have been viewed better had he not been overpaid. I'm hoping the Madson signing is a sign of things to come for closers.

CarolinaRedleg
01-31-2012, 03:01 PM
Saw this and it made me chuckle....

https://twitter.com/MrsHossRadbourn/statuses/161991184191995906

redsmetz
02-01-2012, 09:39 AM
Saw this and it made me chuckle....

https://twitter.com/MrsHossRadbourn/statuses/161991184191995906

That is really funny. I used to say that Christ Hospital's Heart Center should have sponsored each of Cordero's appearances!

Blitz Dorsey
02-01-2012, 10:44 PM
He signed a 4 year, 45 million dollar deal with the Reds, and over those 4 years Fangraphs pegged him at 2.8WAR, while BRef had him at 6.2WAR. Over the last few years, a win on the open market has cost about 5 million, so you're looking at an overpay of about 30 million, based on FG's WAR, or about 15 million, based on BRef's WAR.

This is my problem with WAR. As much as I love the concept, how can there be different WARs for the same player? You wouldn't have one service say a player's 2011 OPS was X and another service say it was Y. A player's OPS is his OPS. Why can't the same be true about WAR? There needs to be uniformity for a stat to be truly legit IMO. Too confusing if not.

REDREAD
02-02-2012, 12:58 AM
This is my problem with WAR. As much as I love the concept, how can there be different WARs for the same player? You wouldn't have one service say a player's 2011 OPS was X and another service say it was Y. A player's OPS is his OPS. Why can't the same be true about WAR? There needs to be uniformity for a stat to be truly legit IMO. Too confusing if not.

One of the WAR systems only awarded Cordero .1 WAR last year.
I remember that Heisey almost had more WAR than the entire Reds bullpen combined (I think Heisey had more than 8 of the relivers).
That's just plain silly that a 4th OF is worth more.

WAR is clearly flawed on relief pitchers. Sure Cordero was a thrill a minute last year, but he was better than 1 run (1/10 WAR) above replacement level.
Replacement level relievers are pretty awful.

Gallen5862
02-02-2012, 07:25 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

The Reds "had an offer on the table" for Francisco Cordero since the end of the 2011 season, writes MLB.com's Mark Sheldon but the team would've give Cordero more than a one-year contract with an option. Cordero was holding out for a multiyear deal so the Reds signed Ryan Madson instead. Cordero settled for a one-year, $4.5MM deal with the Blue Jays and Shelton opines that Cordero "can’t be thrilled with how his offseason turned out."