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View Full Version : Wilson Valdez to CIN



tkemmerer14
01-25-2012, 05:09 PM
Jeremy Horst for Wilson Valdez. Thoughts?

jhu1321
01-25-2012, 05:10 PM
Who cares.:laugh:

cincyforever
01-25-2012, 05:11 PM
Looks like a no-go for Tarry-Oh!

Spider Tre
01-25-2012, 05:12 PM
we found our 19th inning pitcher :)

Old NDN
01-25-2012, 05:13 PM
I just asked in another thread: Is he anything different than Janish?

WildcatFan
01-25-2012, 05:26 PM
He's a slightly better hitter, slightly worse defender. I'm a little surprised, in that I thought Horst was a future ML middle reliever, but who knows? Apparently Valdez can also serve as an emergency fifth outfielder (and reliever, obviously), so that makes a little more sense. He has a non-roster invite to Spring Training, and I don't think Horst was on the 40-man, so they'd have to move somebody if he were to make the team.

WildcatFan
01-25-2012, 05:36 PM
Jim Bowden just tweeted out that Cincinnati has some concerns about Cozart coming back from Tommy John. If that's true, it would probably be more plate concerns than fielding. That might be the biggest story to watch in Spring Training.

RedsFan_26
01-25-2012, 05:43 PM
I like this trade. When Horst was on waivers, he was passed up by all 29 teams, and Valdez has a little pop and can play some average defense at short and can fill in at 3rd and 2nd if needed.

WildcatFan
01-25-2012, 05:47 PM
Valdez has a little pop

A guys with six career homeruns and 43 career doubles isn't normally described as having a little pop.

Unless his dad is 5'4", in which case I retract my statement.

RedsFan_26
01-25-2012, 05:51 PM
A guys with six career homeruns and 43 career doubles isn't normally described as having a little pop.

Unless his dad is 5'4", in which case I retract my statement.

He is a backup guy and i said "little" pop, comparing him to our now backup Janish. And i dont know what your second comment has anything to do with anything:confused:

bounty37h
01-25-2012, 05:57 PM
^lol

[deleted]
01-25-2012, 08:19 PM
He is a backup guy and i said "little" pop, comparing him to our now backup Janish. And i dont know what your second comment has anything to do with anything:confused:

whooooosh

I kinda hate this trade. Horst wasn't anything incredibly special but he put up some quality stats in his limited time at AAA, and pitching depth is desperately needed right now.

I don't see how Valdez is really that much of an improvement over Janish or even Valaika. None can hit, but give you a decent glove. Why give up pitching for what we already have? Unless they really have doubts about Cozart being able to fully come back from TJ and want the stability of having a veteran SS... But in that case why not just sign Theriot for cheap? He can't be commanding that much and his bat will at least give you a .315+ OBP.

The worst part is probably that this spells doom for Frazier's shot at making the Opening Day roster. I wish they'd give him more of a chance.

I'm guessing the bench will be Hanigan, Ludwick, Cairo, Valdez, and Francisco.

IamRV
01-25-2012, 08:26 PM
;2529402']whooooosh

I kinda hate this trade. Horst wasn't anything incredibly special but he put up some quality stats in his limited time at AAA, and pitching depth is desperately needed right now.

I don't see how Valdez is really that much of an improvement over Janish or even Valaika. None can hit, but give you a decent glove. Why give up pitching for what we already have? Unless they really have doubts about Cozart being able to fully come back from TJ and want the stability of having a veteran SS... But in that case why not just sign Theriot for cheap? He can't be commanding that much and his bat will at least give you a .315+ OBP.

The worst part is probably that this spells doom for Frazier's shot at making the Opening Day roster. I wish they'd give him more of a chance.

I'm guessing the bench will be Hanigan, Ludwick, Cairo, Valdez, and Francisco.

Agree - this is a stupid trade IMO - that is, of course, if Cozart will be healthy. If he's not healthy then I could see making the trade.

I now fear the backups will be catcher, Heiswick, Cairo, Valdez and Harris. No pop at all but very versatile.

redsfanmia
01-25-2012, 08:50 PM
Horst will be a beast, it seems Walt is trading our entire farm system.

The DARK
01-25-2012, 08:59 PM
Nice little move by Walt. Pick up the best available relief pitcher (Judy) and a reclamation project (Brackman) on waivers as the backups, trade the one who formerly filled that role for an experienced backup. Thus, Cozart gets to start, SS depth doesn't look so bad, and we don't need to waste money on Theriot.

On the other hand, competition for the bench is gonna be quite crowded. Let's be generous and assume a team carries 13 hitters, with at least five outfielders (Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey, Ludwick are locks), two catchers (Mesoraco and Hanigan are locks). The starting infielders are Rolen, Cozart, Phillips, and Votto, all locks. That leaves three spots open, which will be contested for by Cairo, Valdez, Francisco, Frazier, Phipps, Janish, Valaika, and Harris. And in the end, it may come down to Francisco or Frazier... and that leads me to believe that maybe there's one last trade coming up.

Alpha Zero
01-25-2012, 09:12 PM
I'm pretty sure the bench will be Ludwick (assuming Heisey starts), Francisco, Hanigan, Valdez, and Cairo. Francisco kind of has to be in there due to the fact that he's out of options. Ludwick, Cairo, and Francisco all have decent power, so I don't think that the bench is all that weak. I would have liked to have just gone with Frazier instead of Valdez, but I'm okay with the move. Horst wasn't anything special, and Valdez is at least a very versatile guy who is comfortable in the backup role.

Eric the Red
01-25-2012, 09:20 PM
I would have liked to have just gone with Frazier instead of Valdez, but I'm okay with the move. Horst wasn't anything special, and Valdez is at least a very versatile guy who is comfortable in the backup role.

I agree. I prefer Frazier as well but its understandable why they want a guy with more experience at shortstop as the backup.

Red Raindog
01-25-2012, 09:33 PM
A guys with six career homeruns and 43 career doubles isn't normally described as having a little pop.

Unless his dad is 5'4", in which case I retract my statement.

:lol::lol::lol:

Pete4prez
01-25-2012, 09:42 PM
This does'nt amount to a lot.

texasdave
01-25-2012, 10:22 PM
The Reds' 40-man roster is crazy. Two catchers, five outfielders, fifteen infielders. Seems a little lopsided to me.

texasdave
01-25-2012, 10:32 PM
Oh, and yes, this was another crappy acquisition. Are we trying to corner the market on replacement level utility men? What does Valdez bring to this club that you don't already get with Cairo, Harris, Janish, Frazier, Valaika, etc? Unless Walt and Dusty foresee a lot of 19-inning games this season, I just don't get it.

Valdez' career stat line: .290/.330/.620. OPS+ of 67. So it looks like he can't get on base, he has no power at all. What is the point again?

Todd Frazier is a much better bench option. Of course Valdez is 33 so there always the Veteran Creaminess factor.

I would have kept Horst.

OGB
01-26-2012, 01:06 AM
Oh, and yes, this was another crappy acquisition. Are we trying to corner the market on replacement level utility men? What does Valdez bring to this club that you don't already get with Cairo, Harris, Janish, Frazier, Valaika, etc? Unless Walt and Dusty foresee a lot of 19-inning games this season, I just don't get it.

Valdez' career stat line: .290/.330/.620. OPS+ of 67. So it looks like he can't get on base, he has no power at all. What is the point again?

Todd Frazier is a much better bench option. Of course Valdez is 33 so there always the Veteran Creaminess factor.

I would have kept Horst.

Id rather have Heisey start over Ludwick and Frasier on the 25 man, but in general, acquiring guys like Francis, Harris, and Navarro is a big win IMO if it means they have some decent depth at the minor league level with big league experience.
I think everyone is losing sight of how many players get called up to any big league team during the course of a season. Remember how many players the Reds were forced to use last year?

Blood Red Path
01-26-2012, 10:56 AM
A guys with six career homeruns and 43 career doubles isn't normally described as having a little pop.

Unless his dad is 5'4", in which case I retract my statement.

I think what he was alluding too is this comparison or Valdez's "pop" versus Janish's:

In the last two seasons Valdez has 663 PA, with 42 XBH's.
In that same span Janish has 594 PA, with only 30 XBH's.

to dig a little deeper...
Janish's oRAR and oWAR are solidly below replacement level(a combined -4 and -.05 respectively according to BaseballReference), while Valdez's show him to be just slightly north of replacement level (with a combined oRAR of 6 and oWAR of .06).

Also they share an identical .09 dWAR during that stretch, but Valdez hasn't spent as much time at short. That obviously has nothing to do with their "pop", but it puts their overall value into perspective and hopefully illustrates to everyone that Valdez is likely, at the least, a better option than Janish for the 25-man roster.

alett12
01-26-2012, 12:21 PM
Horst will be a beast, it seems Walt is trading our entire farm system.

Hahaha horst is a scrub I like Valdez as a back up who is basicaly the same type of guy they just signed in Harris but younger and I really would prefer to see Frazier as the #1 back up at SS

BEETTLEBUG
01-26-2012, 12:30 PM
Me also with Frazier as backup shortstop.

alett12
01-26-2012, 12:32 PM
Me also with Frazier as backup shortstop.

And at 1B, 2B, 3B, as well as the 3rd guy in LF and 4th guy in RF