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_Sir_Charles_
01-25-2012, 07:49 PM
Well, it looks as though the roster is pretty much set. How do you guys see the 25 man shaking out? (and btw, I only "listed" the starting pitchers, they're not "numbered")

SP: Johnny Cueto
SP: Mat Letos
SP: Bronson Arroyo
SP: Homer Bailey
SP: Mike Leake

RP: Jose Arredondo
RP: Nick Masset
RP: Bill Bray
RP: Sean Marshall
RP: Logan Ondrusek
LM: Sam LeCure
CL: Ryan Madson

C: Ryan Hanigan
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Brandon Phillips
SS: Zach Cozart
3B: Scott Rolen
LF: Chris Heisey
CF: Drew Stubbs
RF: Jay Bruce

Bench: Devin Mesoraco
Bench: Ryan Ludwick
Bench: Juan Francisco
Bench: Miguel Cairo
Bench: Wilson Valdez

I guess it's remotely possible that they go with only 6 relievers, but doubtful. If they do, then it'll increase the bench to 6 players. In which case you'll see Todd Frazier added and Logan Ondrusek removed. But again, I highly doubt that happens.

Another possibility is that somebody beats out Logan for the 6th reliever slot. Now that I find very likely. Josh Judy, Andrew Brackman, Carlos Fisher, Jordan Smith, etc, etc. Just about anybody could step up in ST and swipe that spot. But they'd have to do VERY well IMO because I don't see the Reds booting anybody out of that bullpen unless they're blown away during ST.

So...what do YOU guys think?

IslandRed
01-25-2012, 08:00 PM
That's the 25 I'd bet on as well.

Rojo
01-25-2012, 08:18 PM
I'd go with the extra hitter. Ludwick's the only extra OF. Harris instead Ondrusek.

Kc61
01-25-2012, 09:01 PM
Well, it looks as though the roster is pretty much set. How do you guys see the 25 man shaking out? (and btw, I only "listed" the starting pitchers, they're not "numbered")

SP: Johnny Cueto
SP: Mat Letos
SP: Bronson Arroyo
SP: Homer Bailey
SP: Mike Leake

RP: Jose Arredondo
RP: Nick Masset
RP: Bill Bray
RP: Sean Marshall
RP: Logan Ondrusek
LM: Sam LeCure
CL: Ryan Madson

C: Ryan Hanigan
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Brandon Phillips
SS: Zach Cozart
3B: Scott Rolen
LF: Chris Heisey
CF: Drew Stubbs
RF: Jay Bruce

Bench: Devin Mesoraco
Bench: Ryan Ludwick
Bench: Juan Francisco
Bench: Miguel Cairo
Bench: Wilson Valdez

I guess it's remotely possible that they go with only 6 relievers, but doubtful. If they do, then it'll increase the bench to 6 players. In which case you'll see Todd Frazier added and Logan Ondrusek removed. But again, I highly doubt that happens.

So...what do YOU guys think?

This is the team. Not sure if Ludwick is a starter or a sub, not sure that Leake is a number 5 starter, but these are the 25 players.

Of course, it won't be. Some folks will get hurt and there will be replacements coming out of spring training.

Sometimes the Reds will keep four starting pitchers for a week or so because the schedule doesn't require five immediately. So an extra hitter could go north for a week perhaps.

But you have correctly listed the Reds, if healthy, coming into this season. Could be a good ballclub.

_Sir_Charles_
01-25-2012, 09:03 PM
Yeah, Ludwick & Mesoraco could easily both be starters. But I didn't want to get into semantics. Just who went north.
And yeah, I didn't order the starters at all. Personally I'd say it would be Letos, Cueto, Leake, Bailey, Arroyo based on recent results. But Leake could come backwards, Homer & Bronson could step up, etc.

Kc61
01-25-2012, 09:05 PM
Yeah, Ludwick & Mesoraco could easily both be starters. But I didn't want to get into semantics. Just who went north.

I don't remember the Reds having such a set ballclub by late January in many years. Let's hope they stay healthy. Could be a fun summer.

Nice list.

Vottomatic
01-25-2012, 09:35 PM
Well, it looks as though the roster is pretty much set. How do you guys see the 25 man shaking out? (and btw, I only "listed" the starting pitchers, they're not "numbered")

SP: Johnny Cueto
SP: Mat Letos
SP: Bronson Arroyo
SP: Homer Bailey
SP: Mike Leake

RP: Jose Arredondo
RP: Nick Masset
RP: Bill Bray
RP: Sean Marshall
RP: Logan Ondrusek
LM: Sam LeCure
CL: Ryan Madson

C: Ryan Hanigan
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Brandon Phillips
SS: Zach Cozart
3B: Scott Rolen
LF: Chris Heisey
CF: Drew Stubbs
RF: Jay Bruce

Bench: Devin Mesoraco
Bench: Ryan Ludwick
Bench: Juan Francisco
Bench: Miguel Cairo
Bench: Wilson Valdez

I guess it's remotely possible that they go with only 6 relievers, but doubtful. If they do, then it'll increase the bench to 6 players. In which case you'll see Todd Frazier added and Logan Ondrusek removed. But again, I highly doubt that happens.

Another possibility is that somebody beats out Logan for the 6th reliever slot. Now that I find very likely. Josh Judy, Andrew Brackman, Carlos Fisher, Jordan Smith, etc, etc. Just about anybody could step up in ST and swipe that spot. But they'd have to do VERY well IMO because I don't see the Reds booting anybody out of that bullpen unless they're blown away during ST.

So...what do YOU guys think?

Well done. I agree.

I feel bad for Frazier. Thought he'd be the other utility guy based on his versatility. But he'll be up at some point. Injuries are part of the game.

Reds don't have the money, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to sign Oswalt and do a 6-man rotation with a 6-man bullpen.

RedsManRick
01-25-2012, 10:46 PM
I'd go with the extra hitter. Ludwick's the only extra OF. Harris instead Ondrusek.

Agreed.

cinreds21
01-25-2012, 10:50 PM
Everyone acts like Ondrusek was bad last year. He wasn't.

mth123
01-26-2012, 01:00 AM
Well, it looks as though the roster is pretty much set. How do you guys see the 25 man shaking out? (and btw, I only "listed" the starting pitchers, they're not "numbered")

SP: Johnny Cueto
SP: Mat Letos
SP: Bronson Arroyo
SP: Homer Bailey
SP: Mike Leake

RP: Jose Arredondo
RP: Nick Masset
RP: Bill Bray
RP: Sean Marshall
RP: Logan Ondrusek
LM: Sam LeCure
CL: Ryan Madson

C: Ryan Hanigan
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Brandon Phillips
SS: Zach Cozart
3B: Scott Rolen
LF: Chris Heisey
CF: Drew Stubbs
RF: Jay Bruce

Bench: Devin Mesoraco
Bench: Ryan Ludwick
Bench: Juan Francisco
Bench: Miguel Cairo
Bench: Wilson Valdez

I guess it's remotely possible that they go with only 6 relievers, but doubtful. If they do, then it'll increase the bench to 6 players. In which case you'll see Todd Frazier added and Logan Ondrusek removed. But again, I highly doubt that happens.

Another possibility is that somebody beats out Logan for the 6th reliever slot. Now that I find very likely. Josh Judy, Andrew Brackman, Carlos Fisher, Jordan Smith, etc, etc. Just about anybody could step up in ST and swipe that spot. But they'd have to do VERY well IMO because I don't see the Reds booting anybody out of that bullpen unless they're blown away during ST.

So...what do YOU guys think?

I think this is it unless they have to add Francis too keep him around. I prefer Lecure in a middle relief role with ability to go in two inning stints to Ondrusek. Adding somebody else for long relief (and a 3rd lefty to boot) like Francis might be better than keeping Ondrusek anyway.

OTOH, if Francis is willing to pitch in AAA to get himself in a starter's groove, then it would probably be better should he prove to be needed (and he will be).

powersackers
01-26-2012, 02:10 AM
I don't feel bad for Frazier. He's got some pop and decent knowledge of the strike zone, but a .800 OPS AAA .727 in MLB shows he's still got plenty to work on in AAA. If he wants to be the next Ben Zobrist and go from fringe Utility guy to All Star Utility guy, go prove it like Ben did and OPS about .950 in AAA and win a role up in Cincy.

_Sir_Charles_
01-26-2012, 07:44 AM
Everyone acts like Ondrusek was bad last year. He wasn't.

I agree. But the only other arm in that pen that can really even be considered of getting kicked out is LeCure. And he's the lone long-man in the pen. Therefore Logan is the odd man out IF there has to be one. Personally, I think he makes the club.

RedsManRick
01-26-2012, 08:55 AM
Everyone acts like Ondrusek was bad last year. He wasn't.

He was mediocre and lucky. Bad? Maybe not. But odds are he'll put up an ERA over 4.00 this year and that's not what you shoot for in the bullpen.

mdccclxix
01-26-2012, 12:31 PM
I don't feel bad for Frazier. He's got some pop and decent knowledge of the strike zone, but a .800 OPS AAA .727 in MLB shows he's still got plenty to work on in AAA. If he wants to be the next Ben Zobrist and go from fringe Utility guy to All Star Utility guy, go prove it like Ben did and OPS about .950 in AAA and win a role up in Cincy.

Todd does still have some strike zone issues to work out. He'll be up in Cincinnati at certain times during the year, but working on his consistency in AAA isn't a bad thing, IMO. Like you said, it's not like he's killed it at AAA. Hopefully he doesn't find a plateau there.

Kc61
01-26-2012, 01:41 PM
He was mediocre and lucky. Bad? Maybe not. But odds are he'll put up an ERA over 4.00 this year and that's not what you shoot for in the bullpen.

I guess I don't see this. I think Ondrusek was excellent in the first half. Pretty poor in the second half. I recall he was out with an injury for awhile, that may have impacted the second half. But he slid badly in the second half.

Before the All Star Game Ondrusek had a 1.67 ERA, a 1.12 WHIP, a .206 BA against. He pitched 43 innings and had 31 Ks and 16 walks.

After the All Star Game Ondrusek pitched only 18.1 innings. Struck out 10, but walked 12. Had a 6.87 ERA, .303 BA against, 1.91 WHIP.

Notably, his GO/AO rate went from 1.81 in the first half of 2011, to 1.38.

Was he hurt? Overworked? I see a good reliever who had a pretty terrible second half and was injured at some point. Which raises quetions as to whether he is healthy. But if so, he'll be on the team.

_Sir_Charles_
01-26-2012, 01:49 PM
I guess I don't see this. I think Ondrusek was excellent in the first half. Pretty poor in the second half. I recall he was out with an injury for awhile, that may have impacted the second half. But he slid badly in the second half.

Before the All Star Game Ondrusek had a 1.67 ERA, a 1.12 WHIP, a .206 BA against. He pitched 43 innings and had 31 Ks and 16 walks.

After the All Star Game Ondrusek pitched only 18.1 innings. Struck out 10, but walked 12. Had a 6.87 ERA, .303 BA against, 1.91 WHIP.

Notably, his GO/AO rate went from 1.81 in the first half of 2011, to 1.38.

Was he hurt? Overworked? I see a good reliever who had a pretty terrible second half and was injured at some point. Which raises quetions as to whether he is healthy. But if so, he'll be on the team.

I'd vote overworked. He got leaned on HEAVILY in the first half. Surprisingly enough, the 2 guys who DIDN'T get overworked were Bray & Cordero. But Logan took the heaviest brunt of it. The rewards of 1-inning-Edinson never stop giving. :rolleyes:

Kc61
01-26-2012, 02:01 PM
I'd vote overworked. He got leaned on HEAVILY in the first half. Surprisingly enough, the 2 guys who DIDN'T get overworked were Bray & Cordero. But Logan took the heaviest brunt of it. The rewards of 1-inning-Edinson never stop giving. :rolleyes:

I do believe that Logan was way overworked in the first half last season. 43 innings before the ASB is a great many. 44 appearances in that stretch.

Frankly, I like Logan and Bray and Arredondo and Lecure for roles in this bullpen. I am frustrated with Masset whose results often don't match his talent.

So I expect all these guys to stay, unless there's an injury.

I also think that Marshall, Madson and Latos will result in less work for a number of these relievers. That should help a great deal.

I've often said it -- I'm a Dusty fan. But his one tendency that concerns me is overuse of relievers. To some extent, he's had no choice. But a guy like Ondrusek should not have made 44 appearances before the all star break IMO.