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View Full Version : More Votto to the Jays chatter



Joseph
02-01-2012, 10:14 PM
The Chicago Tribunes Phil Rogers says its 'inevitable'

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/02/01/trib-columnist-votto-to-blue-jays-an-inevitable-acquisition/

REDblooded
02-01-2012, 10:32 PM
Reds offseason moves didn't indicate a team looking to plan for the distant future...

Blitz Dorsey
02-01-2012, 10:38 PM
Well, that settles it then. Phil Rogers has spoken.

LMAO

Votto might very well end up in Toronto in a couple years. But this guy doesn't know anything more than anyone on this board about Votto's situation.

Dan
02-01-2012, 11:30 PM
Before this off season I would have done Votto/Bailey/Cozart for Romero/Cooper/Thames/Escobar,. Now I'm happy to ride out the next two years.

corkedbat
02-01-2012, 11:52 PM
* If the Reds make he playoffs, I can see them hanging onto Joey and trying for two in a row and letting him leave in FA if he doesn't sign an extension.

* If the Reds fall short of the playoffs though. I can see them making Joey their best LTC offer and if he refuses then considering a deal with the Jays.

* I realize that Joey has never categorically stated he will not re-up with the Reds and that Jocketty and Castellini have both said the Reds plan to resign Votto.

* I also know though, that Joey has said he will see what the market will offer and that he owes it to himself and his family to do so. A $20-25M extension for JV would severly hamstring the Reds payroll while the Jays have much deeper pockets and signing a hometown boy like Votto would give them a huge boost in the murderous AL East.

corkedbat
02-02-2012, 12:58 AM
If I we were going to make a deal for Joey with the Jays, they'd need to ante up:

* Two starters from:

- Deck McGuire
- Drew Hutchinson
- Aaron Sanchez
- Justin Nicolino


* An infielder from:

- Yunel Escobar
- Brett Lawrie

* An OF from:

- Anthony Goss (if he continues to improve)
- Brice Brentz (Jays send a catcher and Reds send another prospect to the BoSox)

* One from:

- Daniel Norris
- Noah Syndergaard
- Asher Wojciechowsk

REDREAD
02-02-2012, 01:01 AM
I wonder if the Jays signed Coco in an attempt to lure Votto there :lol:

I'm content to enjoy Votto for 2 more years and let the chips fall where they may.
In fact, I will predict the Reds do not trade Votto.
Good organizations can absorb free agent defections.
Bad organizations are too worried about replenishing the prospect pipeline.
Let's keep trying to win.

GAC
02-02-2012, 04:32 AM
If I we were going to make a deal for Joey with the Jays, they'd need to ante up:

But..... if Votto's desire is to play for Toronto, and the feeling is mutual, then all the BJs have to do is wait for free agency and sacrifice draft picks. I guess it would depend on how badly, as far as urgency goes, the BJs would want Votto. IMO, the Reds are not in the driver's seat in this situation. Most teams aren't. The only thing that would help the Reds is if several teams are interested, and a bidding war ensues. But again - if Joey's desire really is to play in Canada, then that may have little effect unless it could force the hand of the BJs who don't want to take the chance of him signing elsewhere.

But this is all speculation on my part. :p

schroomytunes
02-02-2012, 07:19 AM
Out of The Jays Organization I like these guys for Votto if we ever make a trade:

1)Brett Lawrie- takes over for Rolen at 3rd.
2)Drew Hutchinson-SP in AA
3)Deck McGuire-SP in AA
4)Anthony Gose-OF in AA

we get some guys back into the system in positions of need and get a MLB ready 3rd baseman where we have virtually no depth. As we then move Soto to 1st base.

Vottomatic
02-02-2012, 08:18 AM
Jays will wait until Joey is a free agent. That way they won't have to give up anything. Count on it.

It sucks, but that's what I expect. And I fully expect Joey to bolt for his hometown Toronto.

Makes me wonder if the Reds should give Joey an ultimatum of signing an extension by a certain date, and if he doesn't accept, let the Reds fans know and get what they can for him.

I love the guy, but the thought of him leaving and the Reds getting nothing in return bothers me.

lollipopcurve
02-02-2012, 08:54 AM
It would be smart for the Reds to take the best run they can at Votto before next offseason gets going. If it fails, see what the trade market is. Toronto would be a real good trade partner, IMO.

MikeS21
02-02-2012, 09:20 AM
I wonder if the Jays signed Coco in an attempt to lure Votto there :lol:

I'm content to enjoy Votto for 2 more years and let the chips fall where they may.
In fact, I will predict the Reds do not trade Votto.
Good organizations can absorb free agent defections.
Bad organizations are too worried about replenishing the prospect pipeline.
Let's keep trying to win.
Actually, the reason good organizations can absorb free agent defections is because they already have a well stocked prospect pipeline. If they lose a guy to free agency, they better have youngsters ready to step in or they won't be a good organization very long.

kaldaniels
02-02-2012, 09:26 AM
Jays will wait until Joey is a free agent. That way they won't have to give up anything. Count on it.

It sucks, but that's what I expect. And I fully expect Joey to bolt for his hometown Toronto.

Makes me wonder if the Reds should give Joey an ultimatum of signing an extension by a certain date, and if he doesn't accept, let the Reds fans know and get what they can for him.

I love the guy, but the thought of him leaving and the Reds getting nothing in return bothers me.

No ultimatiums needed, just a solid conversation between 2 grown ups.

IslandRed
02-02-2012, 09:29 AM
Jays will wait until Joey is a free agent. That way they won't have to give up anything. Count on it.

It sucks, but that's what I expect. And I fully expect Joey to bolt for his hometown Toronto.

Makes me wonder if the Reds should give Joey an ultimatum of signing an extension by a certain date, and if he doesn't accept, let the Reds fans know and get what they can for him.

I love the guy, but the thought of him leaving and the Reds getting nothing in return bothers me.

Agreed on the first part. If Toronto can wait until 2014, it'll save them a lot of talent.

Mostly agreed on the second part, but it would be difficult-nigh-impossible for a trade to make the Reds better during the next two years. Getting just draft picks for him wouldn't bother me as much as trading him before 2013 and then finishing one game out of the playoffs. The Reds have been a long time getting into position to grab at the ring, it's time to grab. Later can take care of itself.

Krusty
02-02-2012, 09:34 AM
Let's just enjoy this two year ride. When the time comes and if Votto leaves the Reds should have an idea who will replace Votto.

lollipopcurve
02-02-2012, 10:04 AM
Let's just enjoy this two year ride.


At this point, you can't assume much about 2013. After 2012, Madson, Marshall and Phillips may be gone. Rolen too. Money saved on Votto's contract, which becomes significantly more expensive in 2013, may be able to keep one or more of them, plus whatever they get in trade for him (for example, pitching prospects plus Adam Lind, an Indiana guy on a long-term deal who could take over at first).

2012 is the all-in year. 2013 is different.

TRF
02-02-2012, 10:11 AM
Neftali Soto is only 22.

Just sayin'.

cinreds21
02-02-2012, 10:37 AM
I wonder if this is as inevitable as Adrian Gonzalez going to Boston.

Vottomatic
02-02-2012, 10:55 AM
I gotta ask the question.

What if Spring Training presents some similar problems as last year, where 3 of our starting pitchers are hurt or sick or whatever, or a couple of key position players go down with serious injuries. And what if it hinders the Reds big time, and they are like in 3rd or 4th place and it's clear you're not going to make the playoffs. If Votto hasn't agreed to an extension, do you dangle him at the trading deadline and see if you can get a haul for him? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

REDREAD
02-02-2012, 11:06 AM
Actually, the reason good organizations can absorb free agent defections is because they already have a well stocked prospect pipeline. If they lose a guy to free agency, they better have youngsters ready to step in or they won't be a good organization very long.

Well, the Brewers and Cards lost major FAs. They used the money to buy guys that will at least partially cover the loss (Beltran and Rameriz).

Hypothetically, if Votto turns down 20 million/year .. that gives the Reds 20 million in the FA market to play with.

cinreds21
02-02-2012, 11:09 AM
Vottomatic, of course I would put Votto out there if the Reds are out of it. There is no reason not look at it. A team would likely overpay. I don't necessarily want the Reds to trade Votto, but I would not be mad if they did.

IslandRed
02-02-2012, 11:11 AM
It better be a heck of a haul. Otherwise, the Reds would be (or at least creating the perception they were) punting not just the rest of 2012 but 2013 as well. In effect, they'd be telling the fans "oh well, we tried, we won't make that mistake again." Tough to sell tickets that way.

Vottomatic
02-02-2012, 11:45 AM
What if Neftali Soto tears up triple A?

My point is, there are lots of situations that could arise that make paying Votto $20M per year and hindering overall payroll, less of a necessity.

The Cards may show us this year they can be successful without Pujols. And the Brewers may do the same without Fielder.

Always Red
02-02-2012, 11:50 AM
The economics of the situation aside, some "big city" media think that podunk cities and teams like the Cincinnati Reds exist solely replenish the stock of their own teams when they need a spare part or two.

The fact that the Reds might actually sign Votto to a LTC doesn't even enter their thinking.

It reminds me of how the Kansas City A's seemed like a AAA team for Yankees for much of the late 50's, though there was probably actual collusion between owners of both teams back then.

"Need a 1B? Hey, that Votto guy plays for that Cincinnatuh team right now, why don't we just reach in and liberate him from that situation?"

dougdirt
02-02-2012, 12:55 PM
The economics of the situation aside, some "big city" media think that podunk cities and teams like the Cincinnati Reds exist solely replenish the stock of their own teams when they need a spare part or two.

Is there a reason to believe otherwise?

REDREAD
02-02-2012, 01:10 PM
I gotta ask the question.

What if Spring Training presents some similar problems as last year, where 3 of our starting pitchers are hurt or sick or whatever, or a couple of key position players go down with serious injuries. And what if it hinders the Reds big time, and they are like in 3rd or 4th place and it's clear you're not going to make the playoffs. If Votto hasn't agreed to an extension, do you dangle him at the trading deadline and see if you can get a haul for him? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Nope, I don't trade him. There's still a chance for 2013.

corkedbat
02-02-2012, 01:24 PM
I don't see the Reds trading JV during the season. I think they make their last, best run at him on an LTC right after the 2012 season. If they are not successful and they get the right return from the Jays, I can see them moving him.

If the Reds do fall out of contention by the deadline (which I don't expect), I could see them dealing Phillips, Marshall and/or Madson, if they will bring something useful in return and they don't believe they can be extended.

Vottomatic
02-02-2012, 01:45 PM
I don't see the Reds trading JV during the season. I think they make their last, best run at him on an LTC right after the 2012 season. If they are not successful and they get the right return from the Jays, I can see them moving him.

If the Reds do fall out of contention by the deadline (which I don't expect), I could see them dealing Phillips, Marshall and/or Madson, if they will bring something useful in return and they don't believe they can be extended.

That's a good thing about having good players in the fold like Marshall, Madson, BP, Votto, etc.........who all are question marks long term. If the team falters, the trading deadline could present some incredible offers the Reds might have to consider. In a way, it's a no-lose situation. If they all do well, the team is most likely in solid contention. If other parts of the team break down and cause the team to falter, but those guys are still healthy, but the Reds know they can't win it, they are in good position to deal and strengthen the farm system.

dougdirt
02-02-2012, 01:46 PM
I don't see the Reds trading Votto. If Bob Castellini wouldn't sign off on trading Ramon Hernandez because we "were still in it", then why would he ever trade Joey Votto?

RedsManRick
02-02-2012, 01:56 PM
I think the only way Votto gets traded is if we're clearly out of it in 2013 and it is clear he's not resigning or Soto goes absolutely nuts this year and makes a case that he could be a capable Votto replacement (say .260/.340/.500) and Votto gets moved after 2012. I don't think either of those scenarios is likely.

IslandRed
02-02-2012, 01:58 PM
What if Neftali Soto tears up triple A?

My point is, there are lots of situations that could arise that make paying Votto $20M per year and hindering overall payroll, less of a necessity.

The Cards may show us this year they can be successful without Pujols. And the Brewers may do the same without Fielder.

Of course they can, and I've argued that if the Reds are a playoff team with Votto they're not far away from a playoff team without him, just because it's baseball and that's how it goes.

But we're skipping ahead. Asking how the Reds can fare without Votto is a different question than deciding when "without" ought to start. It is possible to construct a hypothetical scenario where trading Votto in 2012 does not damage the Reds' chances of winning in 2013, but it's a difficult scenario to construct in reality. And I think the front office will be fully aware that such a trade is going to be viewed as giving up by the bulk of the fan base.

Roy Tucker
02-02-2012, 02:01 PM
Joey ought to talk to Junior Griffey about signing with your hometown ballclub and how well that all turns out.

When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.

LoganBuck
02-02-2012, 02:11 PM
At this point it is about riding out the Votto train.

I would point out that whoever eventually owns the Dodgers, will likely push hard for a true top tier player like Votto in the coming offseasons. They were in the Prince Fielder after all.

klw
02-02-2012, 02:29 PM
A bit off topic:
Someone should save a screen shot of the post on Fay's blog about the Rogers piece in case the Enquirer get high and mighty about too much quoting of their articles.
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/02/01/trib-columnist-votto-to-blue-jays-an-inevitable-acquisition/
The post (not written by Fay who is on vacation) quotes 10 "paragraphs" from the original article. I think we try to stay to much, much less lifting from a piece even with a link. One or two paragraphs tops.

*BaseClogger*
02-02-2012, 04:30 PM
The Blue Jays trading Lawrie LOL...

CTA513
02-02-2012, 07:23 PM
Canada needs to stop trying to steal our Canadian.

:nono:

mth123
02-02-2012, 07:23 PM
Keep Votto until the end. Make him a good offer and if he walks, take the picks and use his cash to bring in another middle of the order bat.

Matt700wlw
02-02-2012, 08:41 PM
The future will take care of itself.

2013 isn't on my mind right now. Let's win now. Winning can change a lot of things.

HokieRed
02-02-2012, 10:30 PM
Keep Votto until the end. Make him a good offer and if he walks, take the picks and use his cash to bring in another middle of the order bat.

I'm with you 100% on this.

Mario-Rijo
02-03-2012, 08:52 AM
Keep Votto until the end. Make him a good offer and if he walks, take the picks and use his cash to bring in another middle of the order bat.

Absolutely. At least then the Reds fans can direct their anger of being also rans (IMO) at Votto and not the Reds F.O. assuming they offer him a competitive contract.

Mario-Rijo
02-03-2012, 08:52 AM
The future will take care of itself.

2013 isn't on my mind right now. Let's win now. Winning can change a lot of things.

:thumbup:

LegallyMinded
02-03-2012, 01:52 PM
David Schoenfield had this had from ESPN's Sweet Spot blog (http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/20509/joey-vottos-future-early-speculation):


The Jays are sitting in a perfect position. They're a big-market franchise currently masquerading as a middle-market team, but if they can regain the fan base they once had they'll be able to increase their payroll. The other good news: They have a slew of highly-regarded pitching prospects on the way up to join Romero and Morrow; if a couple of those kids pan out, the Jays could have a relatively cheap rotation for 2014, leaving plenty of money for Votto. Imagine a 3-4-5 of Bautista, Votto and Brett Lawrie.

He also mentions the Cubs and Mariners as possible destinations. As such, I wonder if the Reds' chances of retaining Votto might turn on the how quickly Anthony Rizzo and Justin Smoak develop. If some of the teams that would be in on Votto become committed to their young first basemen in the coming years, it might make the market for him less competitive and drive down his price.

_Sir_Charles_
02-03-2012, 02:40 PM
Keep Votto until the end. Make him a good offer and if he walks, take the picks and use his cash to bring in another middle of the order bat.

This is EXACTLY what you do. Period. Hopefully, that offer will be good enough for him to stay, but regardless, you've got to hang onto him as long as possible. Dumping him beforehand only makes it less likely we'll be competitive.

lollipopcurve
02-03-2012, 02:51 PM
Dumping him beforehand only makes it less likely we'll be competitive.

Depends on the return.

Remember, Madson, Marshall and Phillips could all be gone after this year -- all the more likely if the team keeps Votto's 17-19 million on the payroll.

It would be inane to make a run at signing him long-term after 2012 and, if he doesn't sign, then proceed to ignore the trade market for him.

Would love for the Reds to put together a great 2012 and be flush enough to get Votto to sign. However, if that doesn't happen the team has to approach 2013 with a better strategy than "only Votto can lead us to the promised land," IMO.

Benihana
02-03-2012, 04:16 PM
Keep Votto until the end. Make him a good offer and if he walks, take the picks and use his cash to bring in another middle of the order bat.

Agree unless the Reds are out of contention by July 2013. Then I would open up bidding for his services and ship him off for a bundle of prospects in a "sign and trade" type scenario.

IIRC, the Jays (ironically enough) got a decent haul for one season of Halladay. The Mets got a nice return for 1/2 year of Beltran, and that was despite the fact that SF knew they weren't going to re-sign him. The Reds could probably expect to do much better for 1/2 season of Votto, considering relative worth (and contract value).

I think the Reds could reasonably expect at least two Top 50 prospects for 1/2 season of Votto. If they are out of the race by then and Joey wants $200MM+, I'd pull the trigger. Not before.

lollipopcurve
02-03-2012, 05:00 PM
I think the Reds could reasonably expect at least two Top 50 prospects for 1/2 season of Votto.

July deadline is 2/3 through the season. The trading partner would be getting him for 1/3 of the season.

Not every team has 2 top 50 prospects. And on the teams that do those 2 guys would be the top 2 prospects. I find it difficult to believe there will be teams in contention lining up to give up their best two minor leaguers for 1st baseman. Most contending teams have that spot covered.

LegallyMinded
02-03-2012, 07:41 PM
I think the Reds could reasonably expect at least two Top 50 prospects for 1/2 season of Votto. If they are out of the race by then and Joey wants $200MM+, I'd pull the trigger. Not before.

That might be a bit generous: For half a year of Mark Teixeira, the Braves got Steve Marek, who is now a 28 year old minor league pitcher without a day of ML service time, and Casey Kotchman, who is . . . Casey Kotchman. I'm not sure how well-regarded those two were at the time, but I don't believe either one was a top 50 prospect.

RedFanAlways1966
02-03-2012, 09:14 PM
That might be a bit generous: For half a year of Mark Teixeira, the Braves got Steve Marek, who is now a 28 year old minor league pitcher without a day of ML service time, and Casey Kotchman, who is . . . Casey Kotchman. I'm not sure how well-regarded those two were at the time, but I don't believe either one was a top 50 prospect.

I'll throw it out there... Mark Teixeira was not as good as Joey Votto at the same age.

OPS+, ages 24-27
Teixeira: 131, 144, 126, 149
J. Votto: 125, 156, 171, 156

The Braves actually had Tex for a whole year (got before trading deadline and traded him before next trading deadline). And he hit well in that 1 year. The Braves FO tried in 2007 to make the playoffs in getting him and he performed well in those last 2 months, but what they gave and got was the definition of bad management and a salary dump when unloading him.

Of course being a 1st baseman is a handicap for the REDS in a trade. Perhaps dime a dozen is not the best desription for this position when trying to get something out of one of the best in a trade, but it makes it harder.

If he does not re-sign by 12-31-2012, then I am for seeking offers. That gives the REDS a year and IMO better leverage in a trade than waiting until July 2013.

corkedbat
02-04-2012, 02:26 AM
Of course being a 1st baseman is a handicap for the REDS in a trade. Perhaps dime a dozen is not the best desription for this position when trying to get something out of one of the best in a trade, but it makes it harder.



I would say your only realistic partner will be Toronto. Votto's a favorite son and they could use a 1B. You might get a decent package from them to take possession of Joey a year early if he rejects the Reds final extension offer after this season. If you can get 3-4 guys that can make the team better at 3-4 spots they have to consider it. Doesn't mean they jump on it though.

RedlegJake
02-04-2012, 09:10 AM
I think if Joey doesn't sign after this season you go to Toronto and try to deal if they are interested. Realistically I think you can get a top pitching prospect and a top hitting prospect from them, maybe one more lower level guy. That's it.

The value of prospects is through the roof right now. Seriously - prospects are valued way above actual value if you look at what they are getting in trades and how they develop later on.

Almost every package ends up better for the team that gets the star like Greinke. KC has been helped but the impact Greinke has had on Milwaukee far outweighs the overall impact of the players KC got for them.

There are exceptions but that's the plain truth - right now prospects are over valued. I'll bet Joey brings back at most 2 top prospects and they won't be Toronto's top 2 prospects either (if a deal gets done in the future). There may be another prospect but it won't be a real bonafide.

You can say then don't do a deal or make a deal for another established player (like the proposed Battista trade) or just let him go FA and take the picks. The thing is you aren't going to reap a bonanza in top prospects, especially not for a first baseman but probably not for any position player. With a true ace pitcher you have a better chance of a haul.

Right now though, established players cost so darn much that clubs value prospects in inverse ratio. After a couple years of seasoning you get 4 more years of prime baseball for cheap and that's vary, very valuable when you consider that a Votto or a Lincecum is going to make 20M when they hit that 7th year.

So Toronto may offer a couple prospects but that is likely it because they only have to wait one more year and he is theirs anyway. They'll pay but expecting them to overpay is unrealistic.

The smartest move may be to keep him both years and build the best team around him the Reds can, try as best they can to win, then use the money when/if he leaves to add more pitching, add Soto, take the picks, and try to keep going.

RANDY IN INDY
02-06-2012, 07:40 AM
I think if Joey doesn't sign after this season you go to Toronto and try to deal if they are interested. Realistically I think you can get a top pitching prospect and a top hitting prospect from them, maybe one more lower level guy. That's it.

The value of prospects is through the roof right now. Seriously - prospects are valued way above actual value if you look at what they are getting in trades and how they develop later on.

Almost every package ends up better for the team that gets the star like Greinke. KC has been helped but the impact Greinke has had on Milwaukee far outweighs the overall impact of the players KC got for them.

There are exceptions but that's the plain truth - right now prospects are over valued. I'll bet Joey brings back at most 2 top prospects and they won't be Toronto's top 2 prospects either (if a deal gets done in the future). There may be another prospect but it won't be a real bonafide.

You can say then don't do a deal or make a deal for another established player (like the proposed Battista trade) or just let him go FA and take the picks. The thing is you aren't going to reap a bonanza in top prospects, especially not for a first baseman but probably not for any position player. With a true ace pitcher you have a better chance of a haul.

Right now though, established players cost so darn much that clubs value prospects in inverse ratio. After a couple years of seasoning you get 4 more years of prime baseball for cheap and that's vary, very valuable when you consider that a Votto or a Lincecum is going to make 20M when they hit that 7th year.

So Toronto may offer a couple prospects but that is likely it because they only have to wait one more year and he is theirs anyway. They'll pay but expecting them to overpay is unrealistic.

The smartest move may be to keep him both years and build the best team around him the Reds can, try as best they can to win, then use the money when/if he leaves to add more pitching, add Soto, take the picks, and try to keep going.

Nice post. I agree that, for the most part, prospects are way overvalued these days.

PuffyPig
02-06-2012, 08:19 AM
Remember that Votto will be worth a first and a comp pick as a UFA to us, so that increases his trade value right off the bat.

Vottomatic
02-06-2012, 06:21 PM
Remember that Votto will be worth a first and a comp pick as a UFA to us, so that increases his trade value right off the bat.

Yeah, in 2013, if Votto hasn't signed an extension, I don't trade him for a bag of balls. I do what the Brewers did and offer arbitration, which I believe leads to a comp pick if he declines and decides to try free agency. I'd rather have the pick than some retread guy the trading partner team is just trying to unload. You won't get anything for Votto if you're trying to trade him with 2 months left before he hits free agency.

Captain Hook
02-06-2012, 06:52 PM
Yeah, in 2013, if Votto hasn't signed an extension, I don't trade him for a bag of balls. I do what the Brewers did and offer arbitration, which I believe leads to a comp pick if he declines and decides to try free agency. I'd rather have the pick than some retread guy the trading partner team is just trying to unload. You won't get anything for Votto if you're trying to trade him with 2 months left before he hits free agency.

Elvis Andrus
Matt Harrison
Beau Jones
Neftali Perez
Jarrod Saltalamacchia

Not a bad haul for a few months of Mark Teixeira.There's not much doubt that the Braves overpaid but I think Joey is a better player and could get the Reds something close to that if the right team is contending.

Always Red
02-06-2012, 08:32 PM
The Cards will be looking for a 1B in 2 years (Fat Elvis can't last forever) and I'll say this much- if Joey Votto winds up a St. Louis Cardinal (or a Chicago Cub, if Rizzo doesn't work out), that just might cure me of the game.

kaldaniels
02-06-2012, 09:15 PM
Anyone see just a bit of similarities between Votto and Jr? I feel like we just may see what it was like to be in Seattle's shoes when Jr wanted to come home.

Joseph
02-06-2012, 09:31 PM
Anyone see just a bit of similarities between Votto and Jr? I feel like we just may see what it was like to be in Seattle's shoes when Jr wanted to come home.

A bit, but Seattle had a decade of Junior, plus Junior was the biggest star in the game. Votto is a top ten player, but not THE star.

kaldaniels
02-06-2012, 09:34 PM
A bit, but Seattle had a decade of Junior, plus Junior was the biggest star in the game. Votto is a top ten player, but not THE star.

Definitely but how many top ten guys make it somewhat of a priority to "go home?". Jr was the extreme example here, no doubt.

757690
02-06-2012, 11:04 PM
Elvis Andrus
Matt Harrison
Beau Jones
Neftali Perez
Jarrod Saltalamacchia

Not a bad haul for a few months of Mark Teixeira.There's not much doubt that the Braves overpaid but I think Joey is a better player and could get the Reds something close to that if the right team is contending.

That was for a year and half of Tex.

The Braves traded a few months of Tex for Casey Kotchman and a pitching prospect the next year.

Captain Hook
02-06-2012, 11:38 PM
That was for a year and half of Tex.

The Braves traded a few months of Tex for Casey Kotchman and a pitching prospect the next year.

Thanks for clearing that up.

As far as Votto going to Toronto as a FA. Has Joey ever said anything indicating that he has a desire to play in Toronto or is it just assumed that he would?

redsmetz
02-07-2012, 05:29 AM
Thanks for clearing that up.

As far as Votto going to Toronto as a FA. Has Joey ever said anything indicating that he has a desire to play in Toronto or is it just assumed that he would?

It's taken a gospel in most corners here on RZ - that's why he moved to Florida, he wants to be back home in Toronto. It's right up there with his definitive statement that he will test free agency.

The most I can ever recall Votto saying on the matter is when he signed his current deal (three years, I think) - he said essentially something akin to how does someone my age have any idea where they want to be in three years - that's a long time from now. No question, there's loads that can be read into that, but I basically continue to see in Votto someone who chooses his words carefully and is generally fairly circumspect about things.

RedFanAlways1966
02-07-2012, 07:57 AM
That was for a year and half of Tex.

The Braves traded a few months of Tex for Casey Kotchman and a pitching prospect the next year.

Not a major thing, but to get it straight... the Braves had Tex for one whole year. Got right before trade deadline in 2007. Unloaded right before trade deadline in 2008. And he hit very well in that year with them.

_Sir_Charles_
02-07-2012, 10:59 AM
It's taken a gospel in most corners here on RZ - that's why he moved to Florida, he wants to be back home in Toronto. It's right up there with his definitive statement that he will test free agency.

The most I can ever recall Votto saying on the matter is when he signed his current deal (three years, I think) - he said essentially something akin to how does someone my age have any idea where they want to be in three years - that's a long time from now. No question, there's loads that can be read into that, but I basically continue to see in Votto someone who chooses his words carefully and is generally fairly circumspect about things.

Spot on. It always bugs me when people automatically assume he wants to play in Toronto or that he wants to leave Cincy or even that he wants to test the FA market. I've never seen anything that says that from him. Sure, you can read things into what he says, but he's usually very specific about what he does and doesn't say.

TRF
02-07-2012, 11:34 AM
I really like Joey Votto. I've followed his career since he was a Dayton Dragon.

But I root for the name on the front of the jersey more than the name on the back. IF Votto decides to leave in 2 seasons, the Reds will offer him the 1 year deal. Votto will refuse it and the Reds get an extra pick.

Or, Votto signs an extension.

Or Votto signs an extension AND Soto goes nuts at AAA.

Or Votto gets traded after 2012 AND Soto goes nuts at AAA.

or, or, or.

Either way, I'm pretty sure Cincinnati will have a team in 2013 and beyond.

RedlegJake
02-07-2012, 01:40 PM
...

But I root for the name on the front of the jersey more than the name on the back. IF Votto decides to leave in 2 seasons, the Reds will offer him the 1 year deal. Votto will refuse it and the Reds get an extra pick.

...

Either way, I'm pretty sure Cincinnati will have a team in 2013 and beyond.

!!! Thank You! The Reds will still be here after Votto leaves whether that's in 2013 or 2014 or 2015 or 2020 or whenever. And they will be as competitive as they can be given the payroll they commit every year - Seattle lost Griffey, Johnson and Rodriguez within a short period and got better. The Reds will survive and adapt and I root for the Reds not for the Vottos.

WebScorpion
02-07-2012, 10:54 PM
The Reds will survive and adapt and I root for the Reds not for the Vottos.
The Reds ARE my vatos!!:laugh:

klw
04-02-2012, 07:58 PM
The Chicago Tribunes Phil Rogers says its 'inevitable'

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/02/01/trib-columnist-votto-to-blue-jays-an-inevitable-acquisition/

Hey Phil Rogers how do like them apples?
Good Will Hunting- Apples - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf0OFZexRGs)

Joseph
04-02-2012, 08:41 PM
Ha! :)

dougdirt
04-02-2012, 09:16 PM
Mmmm Crow.... needs more ketchup.

VR
04-02-2012, 09:36 PM
Pipe the 'chatter'!

757690
04-02-2012, 10:06 PM
One thing that I am sure played into Votto's thought process was the Jay's outright refusal to sign anyone to a contract longer than five years. Maybe they would make an exception for Votto, but I don't think he wanted to take that risk.

RedlegJake
04-02-2012, 11:51 PM
I simply think Joey was glad to stay in Cincy once he realized they were serious about the money and the years. How much more do you get on the open market? And how much more can a team say We WANT you!! than the kind of contract he was offered? Most players have to leave to get that contract.

Team Clark
04-02-2012, 11:58 PM
So, I guess there will not be a need to draft a 1B anytime soon! Lol

dougdirt
04-02-2012, 11:59 PM
So, I guess there will not be a need to draft a 1B anytime soon! Lol

Still have to fill out some minor league teams. And if we can get some more Alonso's and work them into packages for more Latos's, I am all for it.