PDA

View Full Version : Oswalt II



RedsfaninMT
02-04-2012, 06:24 PM
mlbtraderumors.com says Reds/Walt have talked with him recently, but the Reds would likely need to move payroll.

Not sure who they would get rid of to offset costs, but I would fall off my chair if they pulled that off at this point. It would cost a lot, but I will be ticked if the Cards get him instead.

Red Raindog
02-04-2012, 06:30 PM
ESPN Insider is saying it is down to the Reds, Phillies & Red Sox -- but -- gasp -- they have been known to be wrong in the past.

NCCardfan
02-04-2012, 06:33 PM
I wouldn't mind him in STL but will be be worth the $10MIL he wants?

Over $5-7MIL & a team is taking a HUGE chance IMO.

The Rage
02-04-2012, 06:59 PM
Oswalt news is rehashed mumbling. His head is so far up his backside, he won't even take a reasonable deal from any organization.

[deleted]
02-04-2012, 06:59 PM
I've posted a bunch in the other Oswalt topic about why I think he'd be a steal for between 7-10 million, so I'll let that speak for itself. I think picking him up would be the absolute best move for this team. I like the moves we've made this off-season, but am still very worried about our lack of starting pitching. Oswalt would provide the talent and depth needed to make us favorites in a division that I still believe St. Louis has the upper-hand in (if they land Oswalt, ouch...

That being said, how do we manage to get him? Money is tight, and it seems he's looking for a 10 million deal. This could be a Madson 2.0 scenario, given that if he hasn't received that kind of offer from Boston, St. Louis, or Texas yet, he likely won't (unless they're catching on to the game and waiting for the market to collapse as well). It's also pretty transparent he wants to stick around the midwest, which is why I think the Cardinals are the favorite and the Reds still have an outside chance. The roster management is certainly possible, despite what most posters say (move Arroyo to the bullpen, his contract be damned. He's a glaring weakness in the rotation anyway).

So it all comes down to finances, as it always seems to. It's possible the FO will just push the budget out a little and widen the purse strings, given how much buzz has been made about the team being "all-in" for Votto's shortening tenure. Outside of that, moves would have to be made, and I don't see where a significant amount of money could be freed up. Does anyone know off-hand how much wiggle room we currently have? Would shipping off someone like Masset leave us enough to secure Oswalt? I would make that happen in a heart beat.

This team sorely needs more starting pitching. Oswalt is not only a top talent, but obtaining him also robs him from our biggest rivals.

Thomaswaynem
02-04-2012, 07:01 PM
I agree. Get it done. Oswalt will do a lot for this team. I get tired of people talking about how he is done and over the hill. He is 34, and would still be the 2nd or 3rd best pitcher on this team.

redsfanmia
02-04-2012, 07:18 PM
They need to move payroll to get a legit lead off hitter or a legit clean up hitter not another starter.

Fireball
02-04-2012, 07:30 PM
They need to move payroll to get a legit lead off hitter or a legit clean up hitter not another starter.

They have a legit leadoff hitter. His name is Brandon Phillips. They have a legit cleanup hitter. His name is Jay Bruce.

Get Oswalt.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

RedsfaninMT
02-04-2012, 07:39 PM
I haven't seen it suggested, and it would not be my favorite move, but they could move Chapman, freeing up the necessary salary, and perhaps get some pretty good return on the move.

I suggest it as a possibility only because with Marshall and Bray in the pen, there would already be 2 lefties, and with an Oswalt signing, the likelihood of Chapman moving back to the pen increases substantially.

Old NDN
02-04-2012, 08:25 PM
Sign him. You're missing a golden opportunity that won't come around again. What budget? The increase in ticket sales would go along way in offsetting an increase in payroll....along with anticipated postseason revenue.

Fireball
02-04-2012, 08:42 PM
No way I get rid of Chapman to sign Oswalt. With Latos, Cueto, Leake, and Chapman under team control for the next 4 years, we have the potential to have a solid staff, and thus a very good team over that period regardless if we sign Votto and Phillips long term.

You don't give that up for one year of a 35-year-old Oswalt. If we can get creative to fit him in this year, I say go for it, but if you're getting rid of anyone but Arroyo to to it, then let him go.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Jdattilo
02-04-2012, 08:51 PM
Rosenthal now reporting that Reds just "kicking the tires" and not actively pursuing Oswalt.

Thomaswaynem
02-04-2012, 09:20 PM
I don't remember hearing the same thing about the Reds and Ryan Madson about a week before they signed him either.

Jdattilo
02-04-2012, 09:33 PM
Hope it is another such surprise, but, like others, cannot see Arroyo in the pen, and I don't want to see a young affordable Bailey traded.

SweetLou1990
02-04-2012, 09:59 PM
1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Leake
4. Arroyo
5. Bailey

How the heck would he fit into the rotation ? He would almost have to take Leake's spot and then Leake would be the 6th starter in the event of an almost certain injury.

I say save the money for the Phillips extension and go with what we got.

bleedsred
02-04-2012, 10:31 PM
How about the Reds sign Oswalt and trade Arroyo (eating 12 million)...say they sign Roy for 1 year at 9 mil then Chapman should be ready to go into the rotation next season....Reds actually save around 4 million in this scenerio....would teams bite for 2 years of Bronson at 13 million????

Maker_84
02-04-2012, 11:40 PM
How about the Reds sign Oswalt and trade Arroyo (eating 12 million)...say they sign Roy for 1 year at 9 mil then Chapman should be ready to go into the rotation next season....Reds actually save around 4 million in this scenerio....would teams bite for 2 years of Bronson at 13 million????

Bingo

bah1286
02-04-2012, 11:49 PM
Bingo

Eat a few million of Arroyos salary andhe maybe tradable if you throw ina lower level prospect and get nothing in return. You would then have the money for Oswalt.

Redsfansince72
02-05-2012, 12:43 AM
Dont forget, Bronson has 15 million deferred and its in his contract if he is traded, the 15 million has to be paid up front.. Cant see it happening unless they throw in a good prospect for the new team to take on his full 2012 salary..

Brisco
02-05-2012, 01:30 AM
Bingo

Please stop with the arroyo trade will save money talk... Currently we owe 15 million to arroyo plus the 13.5 million in salary for the next two years, or 28.5 million total. If we trade him the 15 mill is due that day.. Instead of at an interest free loan with payments spread over 6 years.

So tell me, what team is willing to pay 28.5 million for arroyo for 2 years (plus trade something for the privilege of doing so) but isn't willing to sign oswalt for one year... Even at the ten million he is asking for?

Those of you who think all we would have to do is throw in a prospect or two.... Not unless those prospects are both mesoraco and hamilton would any team consider it....

So you think dumping mes and Hamilton is worth the upgrade of arroyo to oswalt?

Brisco
02-05-2012, 01:32 AM
Btw... I think walt is talking about reworking some contracts to save money this year... Not dumping players.

Red Raindog
02-05-2012, 08:32 AM
Rosenthal now reporting that Reds just "kicking the tires" and not actively pursuing Oswalt.

If I had any interest in signing someone and it came out -- I would say I was only kicking tires too -- not saying Owsalt will be coming but tactically I would want others to think I had very little interest.

We all know Walt can pull signings out of thin air after he got Madson.

Old NDN
02-05-2012, 08:52 AM
It may be possible Oswalt falls into the Reds' laps if the Cards and Rangers continue dragging their feet. Their rotations look a lot more solid than the Reds. Walt just needs to get creative and make it happen. BTW, doesn't "kicking the tires" occur right before you buy the car?

brad1176
02-05-2012, 09:53 AM
The Rangers rotation may be better, but not the Cards. They're depending on Wainwright who hasn't pitched in a year due to TJ and his control is likely to be all over the place. Carpenter got beat like a drum last year until he somehow turned into a Cy Young candidate in the playoffs, he'll regress even more this year. Garcia should be solid. Lohse can be effective IF he can keep the ball down, and Westbrook is, well Westbrook. So they have one guy in the rotation that should be solid all year. I have to believe they will ALL suffer without Duncan being there, who knows what Liliquist will do to them.

The Reds could use another starter, the back of the rotation has serious question marks in Arroyo and Bailey. Arroyo was arguably the worst pitcher in baseball and Bailey has never thrown more than 132 innings. I have no idea how Walt could make it happen, but signing Roy would really help to shore up this rotation.

texasdave
02-05-2012, 11:51 AM
Please stop with the arroyo trade will save money talk... Currently we owe 15 million to arroyo plus the 13.5 million in salary for the next two years, or 28.5 million total. If we trade him the 15 mill is due that day.. Instead of at an interest free loan with payments spread over 6 years.

So tell me, what team is willing to pay 28.5 million for arroyo for 2 years (plus trade something for the privilege of doing so) but isn't willing to sign oswalt for one year... Even at the ten million he is asking for?

Those of you who think all we would have to do is throw in a prospect or two.... Not unless those prospects are both mesoraco and hamilton would any team consider it....

So you think dumping mes and Hamilton is worth the upgrade of arroyo to oswalt?


Btw... I think walt is talking about reworking some contracts to save money this year... Not dumping players.

Make up your mind. Are contracts set in stone like you seem to imply in the first quote, or can they be reworked as you allude to in the second quote? It can't be both ways.

redsfanmia
02-05-2012, 11:52 AM
They have a legit leadoff hitter. His name is Brandon Phillips. They have a legit cleanup hitter. His name is Jay Bruce.

Get Oswalt.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Do you watch the games? Phillips is ok as a lead off hitter and Jay Bruce is far to streaky to be a legit clean up hitter at this stage in his career.

Big Red Hoss
02-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Hes is the depth we need. Right now with Have six competing for the starting five. Bailey hasn't proved he can stay healthy. Every year it something else for him. Chapman hasn't proved he can do it #1. Plus if chapman can do it are the reds going to shut him down is sept to keep his inns down? That won't help us in a playoff run.

Outside of those six you have Francis and Lecure that could start.

I like the move for Oswalt. I think they could get interesting and get him if they really wanted to. I think another surprise sign like this would make the fans go nuts. The opening home stand would sell out everygame and if they win it would get even better. Its worth taking a shot at and if all else fails and you find he is expendable then move it at the trade deadline and get a prospect for him.

Big Red Hoss
02-05-2012, 12:09 PM
Do you watch the games? Phillips is ok as a lead off hitter and Jay Bruce is far to streaky to be a legit clean up hitter at this stage in his career.

OVer the last 3 years the reds continue to be one of the top scoring teams in the NL and baseball. Clearly offense is not a problem. The problem with the offense is they go 5 games with 1 run and then gor for 9 or 10 runs in 1 game.

Red Raindog
02-05-2012, 12:17 PM
It may be possible Oswalt falls into the Reds' laps if the Cards and Rangers continue dragging their feet. Their rotations look a lot more solid than the Reds. Walt just needs to get creative and make it happen. BTW, doesn't "kicking the tires" occur right before you buy the car?

Can't buy the car without kicking the tires!

redsfanmia
02-05-2012, 12:44 PM
OVer the last 3 years the reds continue to be one of the top scoring teams in the NL and baseball. Clearly offense is not a problem. The problem with the offense is they go 5 games with 1 run and then gor for 9 or 10 runs in 1 game.

The offense is way too streaky and against good pitching they do nothing. The offense is a problem IMO and will be the reason why if they make the playoffs they will not win a game just like last time.

Fireball
02-05-2012, 12:54 PM
The offense is way too streaky and against good pitching they do nothing. The offense is a problem IMO and will be the reason why if they make the playoffs they will not win a game just like last time.

The offense was #2 in the league last year and the pitching was near the bottom of the league.

So, if there is a choice in signing a pitcher or a hitter, and you're telling me it should be a hitter, then you're pretty wrong, IMHO.

Big Red Hoss
02-05-2012, 01:00 PM
The offense is way too streaky and against good pitching they do nothing. The offense is a problem IMO and will be the reason why if they make the playoffs they will not win a game just like last time.

The playoffs were a diffrent story. That was a young team who was star struck. I don't see it happening again.

As for the batters against top pitching. I can name more games where they excelled last year then they lost. They took Lincecum for 7 runs in July last year. He never gives that much up. The offense will be ok I am sure of that Pitching was great in 2010 and we made playoffs. Pitching faltered last year and we didn't. Offense was close to consistant both years.

redsfanmia
02-05-2012, 03:41 PM
The playoffs were a diffrent story. That was a young team who was star struck. I don't see it happening again.

As for the batters against top pitching. I can name more games where they excelled last year then they lost. They took Lincecum for 7 runs in July last year. He never gives that much up. The offense will be ok I am sure of that Pitching was great in 2010 and we made playoffs. Pitching faltered last year and we didn't. Offense was close to consistant both years.

Personally I am not a fan of an offense that can only score runs when they hit it out of the ball park. This offense is an example of stats not telling the whole truth.

bigredmechanism
02-05-2012, 05:44 PM
The offense is way too streaky and against good pitching they do nothing. The offense is a problem IMO and will be the reason why if they make the playoffs they will not win a game just like last time.

Every team struggles against top-flight pitching; it's why those pitchers are considered top-flight.

Perhaps we are a bit inconsistent on offense, but our pitching has been the main source of our struggles over the past couple of years.

Some of those needs have been addressed, and our offense is pretty much the same as it was the last two years.

[deleted]
02-05-2012, 05:55 PM
Personally I am not a fan of an offense that can only score runs when they hit it out of the ball park. This offense is an example of stats not telling the whole truth.

The lineup certainly has holes, but anyone who would pursue hitting over pitching at this point is absolutely insane. The Reds scored the second most runs in the NL last season and were 4th in the league in OBP. Strikeouts will still be a'plenty, but I don't think there is any direct correlation between Ks and an unproductive offense. Losing Gomes and Janish will be addition by subtraction, and if Cozart/Heisey/Mesoraco perform well we'll be in an even better position. Even if things slightly fall apart, we won't drift any further down than "still above league average." Which, with good pitching, can take you far.

The rotation, though, could very well kill us again this year. Latos is gold, Cueto is a solid #2, but after that are question marks. Leake was good last year and I expect him to perform similarly in 2012. Bailey could go either way. Arroyo, however, was beyond bad. Seriously. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, because everyone seems totally content to have him pitching 1/5 of our games when he was AWFUL last year. AWWWWWFUL. WHY DOESN'T ANYONE ELSE THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE? How bad was Arroyo? Well, according to Fangraphs, he was dead last among qualifying pitchers in both WAR and FIP, by a large margin. Even if you aren't the biggest proponent of these specific stats, fine, but you can't deny there's at least some validity to them. So let me say that again:

By at least two different metrics, Bronson Arroyo was the absolute worst pitcher in baseball last season.

Okay, he had mono for parts of the season. I don't really buy that as a complete excuse for such lousy performance, but fine. So... we're just counting on him bouncing all the way back to being decent/mediocre? We're really going to hinge the season on that or use it as an excuse to not add to the rotation? What if he doesn't? Or what if he only bounces back a little? A little bit better than godawful is still terrible. And we want him to throw 200 innings? A durable pitcher who can throw 200 is quite a commodity, but if those are 200 innings of horribly pitched baseball than you aren't really coming out ahead there. People are saying we can't grab Oswalt because we have nowhere to put him. Yes, we do. Arroyo goes to the bullpen, even if he is being payed 12 million. Wait, we shouldn't sign Oswalt because he's old and injured last year? He's... younger than Arroyo, who also played hurt... Except Oswalt has a much better resume.

And what if Leake and Bailey don't improve? What if they regress? After all, we went the "wait and hope all the young guys get better" route between 2010 and 2011 and that blew up in our faces. What if all three of those guys fall off a cliff? Who do we slide into the rotation? Jeff Francis, Sam LeCure, and Aroldis "here's first base!" Chapman? Not in the middle of what should be our go-to year for a pennant run.

/rant

I know this all sounds pessimistic, but I don't want to see this team crash and burn because of a lack of starting pitchers. There is no doubt at all that St. Louis has a better rotation than we do. None at all. You can say, "oh, well Wainwright's coming back from TJ and Carpenter is getting older, so we shouldn't expect much outta them." But if you do that, than you equally have to expect Arroyo to be nothing but garbage, right? If they land Oswalt, we get knocked back 2 or 3 more pegs. I don't even know that it is possible for us to land him, but I certainly think he would take us from "good" to "truly serious WS contender."

brad1176
02-05-2012, 06:10 PM
Uhhh...ditto? LOL! Great rant!!

I posted earlier that we need help at the back of the rotation and that Arroyo was the worst pitcher in baseball last year, completely agree with you.

redsfanmia
02-05-2012, 06:11 PM
I think Bronson bounces back this year and is a strong 4th starter and Bailey is a pretty solid 5. I think Leake continues to improve and the Reds have one of the better staffs in the national league but their offense struggles and they finish 2nd or 3rd in the division and set a major league record for strike outs for an offense.

DGullett35
02-05-2012, 07:12 PM
No way Leake leaves the rotation. Bailey will be the odd man out.

Thomaswaynem
02-05-2012, 10:21 PM
Best case scenario is Arroyo has a bounce back year and someone is willing to trade for him next year. If Oswalt was brought in, Bailey would be on the way out. I've pretty well gave up on him. It seems that every game he is "one bad pitch" from dominating, but it happens every game and he blows it.

IamRV
02-05-2012, 10:34 PM
No way Leake leaves the rotation. Bailey will be the odd man out.

Bailey is out of options and is a poor choice for the pen since he takes forever to warm up.

We've been through this 100 times.

Arroyo has an untradeable contract and the Reds brass will be reluctant to pay a 'long man' in the pen 12 mil.

Bailey - see above

Leake would be the odd man out and begin the season in Louisville which should not cause such angst as we are already considering the fact that we can't play the entire season with just 5 starters.

The main question is can the Reds find room on their payroll to sign Oswalt. The other questions are already answered.

nux fan
02-05-2012, 11:58 PM
arroyo = garbage

texasdave
02-06-2012, 01:24 AM
You can bet the farm that Arroyo will be in the rotation even if he has to crawl to the mound. Dusty loves him some Veteran Creaminess. There was absolutely no reason why Arroyo was pitching in September. Those starts should have gone to Travis Wood or anybody else really.

takealeake
02-06-2012, 01:52 AM
If the front office would have waited and just taken an option on Arroyo last year instead of signing him to some ridiculous 3 year deal, we wouldn't be in this situation and wouldn't have a problem signing Oswalt.

That's why the idiocy of this front office amazes me. They're always complaining and pointing to the budget, yet always make deals that put them at a disadvantage. You can go back to overpaying a crapton for Eric Milton, who went on to put up some of the worst numbers in NL history. Then, paying a freaking closer $10 mil a year who didn't do all that much. Then it was giving Arroyo a 3 year $30 mil deal when you had an option on him.

That's always the Reds problem. Overpay for players at the height of their value, then spend the next few years lamenting that there's no room to add someone who would be a major pickup. It's freaking nuts.

Big Red Hoss
02-06-2012, 01:06 PM
The longer this Oswalt thing goes on the more it seems like it will happen.IF the cardinals or rangers wanted him that bad the deal would be done. Samething with the redsox. SO clearly there is some behind the scenes stuff not being reported. Im hoping for a ryan madsen out of no where deal on this and hes in Goodyear in 2 weeks wearing the reds uniform.

John fay reports bailey would be an odd man out to make signing Oswalt at this point. Could be interesting. Bailey is worth something on the trade market. A young SS product maybe?

jhu1321
02-06-2012, 01:13 PM
I agree, the longer this takes the better the Reds chances are but I would hate to see Bailey get traded. IMO this is the year he finally puts it together.

We have a young shortstop who will be starting day one. How about a young LF prospect! :beerme:

alett12
02-06-2012, 03:06 PM
Houston does want in as well though i don't see him going there. The tigers offered him 12 million before they signed feilder as well and if he wouldn't take that screw it let him sign else where

Thomaswaynem
02-06-2012, 05:20 PM
The constant argument that Bailey takes too long to warmup and therefore can't go to the bullpen endears him even less to me.

I've been as big of a Bailey fan as any, but I really don't see him ever getting beyond what he is. He is a solid 4 or 5, but he will always be inconsistent and nicked up. I think that I have heard this is the year for Bailey for the last 3 years. He just isn't going to get there. Move him to the bullpen or deal him. I'd bet something serviceable would be out there. As far as the Arroyo would be just as good as Oswalt arguments I have read, some of you people are off of your rockers. Arroyo is far more likely to get blasted just as much next year as he would be to come close to 2010. If Bob signs Oswalt more people will come out. Think of it as an investment. You have to spend money to make money.

The Rage
02-06-2012, 06:41 PM
The constant argument that Bailey takes too long to warmup and therefore can't go to the bullpen endears him even less to me.

I've been as big of a Bailey fan as any, but I really don't see him ever getting beyond what he is. He is a solid 4 or 5, but he will always be inconsistent and nicked up. I think that I have heard this is the year for Bailey for the last 3 years. He just isn't going to get there. Move him to the bullpen or deal him. I'd bet something serviceable would be out there. As far as the Arroyo would be just as good as Oswalt arguments I have read, some of you people are off of your rockers. Arroyo is far more likely to get blasted just as much next year as he would be to come close to 2010. If Bob signs Oswalt more people will come out. Think of it as an investment. You have to spend money to make money.

Why would people come for a close to washed up pitcher like Oswalt? Mike Leake may get hurt this year, his base mechanics suck worse than Bailey's.

Should you just dump him?

The biggest question about Oswalt is will he ever sign. Turning into a joke.

Thomaswaynem
02-06-2012, 07:19 PM
Why would people come for a close to washed up pitcher like Oswalt? Mike Leake may get hurt this year, his base mechanics suck worse than Bailey's.

Should you just dump him?

The biggest question about Oswalt is will he ever sign. Turning into a joke.

I just find it hilarious that Oswalt is close to washed up yet 90% of the people saying that believe Arroyo is going to have a bounce back year. Roy Oswalt its 33 years old. Last year was the first time since 2003 that he didn't have over 30 starts. Oswalt would be better than every pitcher on our team not named Johnny Cueto or Matt Latos. I really don't see what is a joke about that.

DGullett35
02-06-2012, 07:25 PM
Bailey is out of options and is a poor choice for the pen since he takes forever to warm up.

We've been through this 100 times.

Arroyo has an untradeable contract and the Reds brass will be reluctant to pay a 'long man' in the pen 12 mil.

Bailey - see above

Leake would be the odd man out and begin the season in Louisville which should not cause such angst as we are already considering the fact that we can't play the entire season with just 5 starters.

The main question is can the Reds find room on their payroll to sign Oswalt. The other questions are already answered.


If this club signed Oswalt then Leake BETTER not be the odd man out. Ok hows that? He was our 2nd best pitcher last year behind Cueto and you could make a case for him being the most consistent esp. in the 2nd half of the year with Cueto's injury and slow start. He should be our #3 starter this year but won't because we will have Bronson in that spot and you have to break up the soft tossers with Bailey in between Arroyo and Leake which makes Leake the ODD man out to be our #5. Bailey would have to move to the pen and be this teams long guy. I see no other way. Leake starting the year in Louisville would royally piss me off unless he has a horrid spring. Bailey hasn't proved anything and if you've read any of my other posts I fully support Bailey and I still think hes going to be a quality pitcher in this league maybe even a TOR arm for this club but if its between him and Leake You HAVE to take Leake. I understand hes out of options but no way just because he takes forever to warm up that he gets slotted in instead of Leake. Leake will prove again this year that hes our 2nd best pitcher and If for some awesome reason we sign Roy the Bailey will have to man up and get that arm warm a little faster becasue Dusty will be bringin him out of the pen for long relief

Thomaswaynem
02-06-2012, 07:32 PM
The best thing I have heard yet to this point of if Oswalt is washed up or not is this. Lets say Roy Halladay was a free agent at the end of this year. If he had an issue this year and only pitched 120 innings and a 3.2 era would you still take a chance on him next season or would he be washed up?

99 out of 100 people would say snatch him up. Roy O is younger than Halladay and has been the model of consistency. Lets say he pitches to a 3.5 era this year. Odds are that would still be our #3. I don't get the washed up argument and it is pretty frustrating.

Brisco
02-06-2012, 07:52 PM
Make up your mind. Are contracts set in stone like you seem to imply in the first quote, or can they be reworked as you allude to in the second quote? It can't be both ways.

I am not sure I understand your question. Are you implying that arroyo will rework his contract in order to save the Reds money if they trade him?

Contracts are not set in stone, but any reworking has to provide an advantage to the player. Arroyo, in interviews in 2007, made it very clear that he was not happy being traded. He put the poison pill into his extension in order to prevent a trade. I do not believe the reds or any other team would be willing to pay arroyo enough for a third or fourth year for him to waive the 15 million acceleration.

That said, Phillips and votto are both in a situation where the team could save 2012 money by extending them and the reds would gladly pay for one additional year of phillps... Maybe two or three additional years.... And we all know they would love to extend votto.

The Rage
02-06-2012, 08:25 PM
The best thing I have heard yet to this point of if Oswalt is washed up or not is this. Lets say Roy Halladay was a free agent at the end of this year. If he had an issue this year and only pitched 120 innings and a 3.2 era would you still take a chance on him next season or would he be washed up?

99 out of 100 people would say snatch him up. Roy O is younger than Halladay and has been the model of consistency. Lets say he pitches to a 3.5 era this year. Odds are that would still be our #3. I don't get the washed up argument and it is pretty frustrating.

Oswalt gave up 153 hits in 139 innings which continued the decline from 2009 onward sans the dead mans bounce of 2010.

You don't pay multi-millions to a aging pitcher, especially in this stadium who's body may be on the verge of giving out. It is why Roy can't sign a deal with any of his preferred teams. They don't want to take the risk.

Thomaswaynem
02-06-2012, 08:39 PM
Oswalt gave up 153 hits in 139 innings which continued the decline from 2009 onward sans the dead mans bounce of 2010.

You don't pay multi-millions to a aging pitcher, especially in this stadium who's body may be on the verge of giving out. It is why Roy can't sign a deal with any of his preferred teams. They don't want to take the risk.

Or it could be that St. Louis can't deal Westbrook or Lohse. Or it could be that Boston doesn't want to hit the luxury tax. Just saying.
There is a reason Oswalt was considered one of the best free agents this year. It is because he is still a good pitcher.

RedsfaninMT
02-06-2012, 08:56 PM
I think it has actually gotten to the points of being comical that Oswalt is dragging his feet as Spring Training gets closer and closer. Hey, a #1 or #2 goes down early, and his price tag just went up.

On the other hand...

RedsfaninMT
02-07-2012, 12:12 AM
Drumroll please...and now mlbtraderumors.com says Cards are unlikely to sign Oswalt, same with Rangers.

And again, "the Reds are kicking the tires." Those toes have gotta be getting a little sore from kicking those tires so often.

IamRV
02-07-2012, 12:24 AM
If this club signed Oswalt then Leake BETTER not be the odd man out. Ok hows that? He was our 2nd best pitcher last year behind Cueto and you could make a case for him being the most consistent esp. in the 2nd half of the year with Cueto's injury and slow start. He should be our #3 starter this year but won't because we will have Bronson in that spot and you have to break up the soft tossers with Bailey in between Arroyo and Leake which makes Leake the ODD man out to be our #5. Bailey would have to move to the pen and be this teams long guy. I see no other way. Leake starting the year in Louisville would royally piss me off unless he has a horrid spring. Bailey hasn't proved anything and if you've read any of my other posts I fully support Bailey and I still think hes going to be a quality pitcher in this league maybe even a TOR arm for this club but if its between him and Leake You HAVE to take Leake. I understand hes out of options but no way just because he takes forever to warm up that he gets slotted in instead of Leake. Leake will prove again this year that hes our 2nd best pitcher and If for some awesome reason we sign Roy the Bailey will have to man up and get that arm warm a little faster becasue Dusty will be bringin him out of the pen for long relief

I like Leake as much as anyone, probably more than most. I'm just stating the facts as I see them.

joshua
02-07-2012, 01:02 AM
We should deal Chapman while he's still a hot commodity. He's 3 years into a 5 year deal, the Reds have completely screwed up his development by sticking him in the pen and he has to learn control and another pitch before he can crack the rotation. And by the time he's solid, he'll be a free agent anyways and with that kind of upside it will be hard to resign him if he works out. Throw Homer and him into a deal to get a pitching prospect + a major league ready 3B or a LF.

UCBrownsfan
02-07-2012, 01:06 AM
Oswalt gave up 153 hits in 139 innings which continued the decline from 2009 onward sans the dead mans bounce of 2010.

You don't pay multi-millions to a aging pitcher, especially in this stadium who's body may be on the verge of giving out. It is why Roy can't sign a deal with any of his preferred teams. They don't want to take the risk.



127 IP, 4.12 ERA, 1.338 WHIP, 1.1 HR/9, 2.58 K/BB - These are cherry picking the worst stats in individual categories of Oswalts career it would also have made him our 3rd best starter last year. All he has to do is equal his worst and he helps us.

dMaus14
02-07-2012, 01:21 AM
We should deal Chapman while he's still a hot commodity. He's 3 years into a 5 year deal, the Reds have completely screwed up his development by sticking him in the pen and he has to learn control and another pitch before he can crack the rotation. And by the time he's solid, he'll be a free agent anyways and with that kind of upside it will be hard to resign him if he works out. Throw Homer and him into a deal to get a pitching prospect + a major league ready 3B or a LF.

Heisey + Chapman + Bailey for Logan Morrison

LH bat, can play the outfield and is the replacement for Votto when he leaves in 2013 because his original position is 1B. Save about $7M so you can sign Oswalt with.

The Rage
02-07-2012, 06:18 AM
127 IP, 4.12 ERA, 1.338 WHIP, 1.1 HR/9, 2.58 K/BB - These are cherry picking the worst stats in individual categories of Oswalts career it would also have made him our 3rd best starter last year. All he has to do is equal his worst and he helps us.

Your missing the trend and the fact he turns 35. People get old. You don't want to get left holding the bag.

Alpha Zero
02-07-2012, 08:26 AM
Your missing the trend and the fact he turns 35. People get old. You don't want to get left holding the bag.

I agree that you don't want to "get left holding the bag" as you put it. However, we're talking about a potential 1 year deal here, not a huge multi-year commitment. Oswalt may not be what he was in 2010, but I think that he'd instantly be the second best pitcher on the staff (behind Latos) if healthy. He's likely a significant upgrade over Bailey. I really wish that Bailey could move to the pen because that would allow the Reds to upgrade the rotation with Oswalt while stashing Bailey as a swing man for some much needed depth. I'd really prefer not to deal away pitching to make room for Oswalt since the Reds need all the depth they can get.

alett12
02-07-2012, 09:43 AM
He has said he doesn't really want to pitch in cinci and they would need to trade someone, probably homer, and he has already turned down a $12 million offer from Detroit so I don't think it'll happen

Larkin88
02-07-2012, 10:46 AM
Anyone know what the middle to late inning relief market is like at this point? Wondering if anyone would bite on Masset at his $3 million. Trading Homer away gives me a little bit of heartburn for one year of Oswalt, but just trying to get creative here.

brad1176
02-07-2012, 12:32 PM
Getting creative here, trade Ludwick, keep Homer.

nux fan
02-07-2012, 12:39 PM
release uselss arroyo

brad1176
02-07-2012, 12:42 PM
release uselss arroyo

They would if they could afford it....

dMaus14
02-07-2012, 12:54 PM
The Oriolea are still looking for middle relief help and I think the Marlins. It shouldn't be that hard because it's a clear salary dump ... I wouldn't mind just asking for cash in return!

jhu1321
02-07-2012, 12:55 PM
Getting creative here, trade Ludwick, keep Homer.

Outfield depth is already a problem!

brad1176
02-07-2012, 12:57 PM
Outfield depth is already a problem!

Fourth outfielders aren't hard to come by.

dMaus14
02-07-2012, 01:01 PM
Or we could send Bailey to the Red Sox for Felix Doubront and Kolbrin Vitek.

jhu1321
02-07-2012, 01:16 PM
Fourth outfielders aren't hard to come by.

And who would you suggest?

brad1176
02-07-2012, 01:25 PM
And who would you suggest?

I don't know, off the top of my head, Fukudome, Nady, bring Phipps up. There's choices is all I'm saying.

alett12
02-07-2012, 02:43 PM
I don't know, off the top of my head, Fukudome, Nady, bring Phipps up. There's choices is all I'm saying.

Nady hasn't played any more games in the outfield the last two years than Vlad, there is always willy taveres though.

bmwreds31
02-07-2012, 03:45 PM
I dont know where its coming from but im hearing oswalt all over the radio. 3-4 different radio stations today have mentioned The reds may be getting Roy Oswalt.

jhu1321
02-07-2012, 03:48 PM
Funny b/c Walt just denied they have had any recent talks with him. Hard to tell, smokescreen by Walt or rampant speculation.

[deleted]
02-07-2012, 04:00 PM
Oswalt's the same age or younger than Roy Halladay, Chris Carpenter, Hiroki Kuroda, and Bronson Arroyo and one year older than Cliff Lee. He'd be taking a one year deal, no more. Doesn't seem too risky to me.

I'd be okay with dealing Masset to make room for him - certainly more comfortable than I'd be giving up on Homer. Fangraphs doesn't seem to think it'll play out, though:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/oswalts-path-to-reds-blocked-by-roster-payroll/

bmwreds31
02-07-2012, 04:41 PM
Funny b/c Walt just denied they have had any recent talks with him. Hard to tell, smokescreen by Walt or rampant speculation.

yep just heard the same thing.

He also said they are no closer than before at closing anything with BP> :thumbdown:

Thomaswaynem
02-07-2012, 04:46 PM
Someone is lying. Either Walt, or everyone else. I am going with Walt. He has already said that if Roy didn't sign with Texas they would get back in it, yet now they aren't involved and he is sick of hearing about it. Something gives.

jhu1321
02-07-2012, 04:49 PM
Someone is lying. Either Walt, or everyone else. I am going with Walt. He has already said that if Roy didn't sign with Texas they would get back in it, yet now they aren't involved and he is sick of hearing about it. Something gives.

Yeah, not sure why so many people would be saying it if it weren't true? Reminds me of the Madson deal. Wonder if he's denying b/c we could lose leverage in trying to move Bailey?

Who knows? :beerme:

texasdave
02-07-2012, 04:57 PM
I bet Walt is the life of the party. LOL. Why would he care if people speculate about Oswalt coming to the Reds? What a cantakerous curmudgeon. Lighten up, Walt.

The Rage
02-07-2012, 05:10 PM
lol at this thread. Oswalt wants to be a Cardinal and is being a whiner into training camp. This has been pretty much verified.

Talk about a mature player. Either accept less Roy with the Cardinals or accept the larger Red Sox offer and get out of the headlines so Reds fans can stop talking about you. It is getting old, especially when you string things out for weeks.

Thomaswaynem
02-07-2012, 05:13 PM
lol at this thread. Oswalt wants to be a Cardinal and is being a whiner into training camp. This has been pretty much verified.

Talk about a mature player. Either accept less Roy with the Cardinals or accept the larger Red Sox offer and get out of the headlines so Reds fans can stop talking about you. It is getting old, especially when you string things out for weeks.


I really don't understand why you are so fired up about this and why you hate Oswalt so much. What are you going to do if they sign him?

The Rage
02-07-2012, 05:16 PM
I really don't understand why you are so fired up about this and why you hate Oswalt so much. What are you going to do if they sign him?

You completely miss the point of my post. The Reds aren't and have never been on Oswalt. The fact it is you who are so hyped up by this, you make consistant threads about it. Move on.

Thomaswaynem
02-07-2012, 05:24 PM
You completely miss the point of my post. The Reds aren't and have never been on Oswalt. The fact it is you who are so hyped up by this, you make consistant threads about it. Move on.

First of all your sentence doesn't make sense. Secondly, I have posted about 5 or 6 times in the last two days on this thread and about 15 times total on this site. That clearly constitutes 6 pages worth of discussion on this topic. Very educated quote Rage. And if the Reds have never been on Oswalt, why did Walt say that they talked to him last week?

The Rage
02-07-2012, 05:28 PM
First of all your sentence doesn't make sense. Secondly, I have posted about 5 or 6 times in the last two days on this thread and about 15 times total on this site. That clearly constitutes 6 pages worth of discussion on this topic. Very educated quote Rage. And if the Reds have never been on Oswalt, why did Walt say that they talked to him last week?

It was Oswalt's agent that went to the Reds, not the other way around. They want to try and drive the Cards to match Boston's offer. It is as simple as that. You shouldn't be telling posters about "immaturity" when you laid out the dumb: What are you going to do when they sign him stuff Tommy.

Maybe you should talk about what is "really" going to happen with the team this season rather than fantasies about a over the hill player who will turn 35 this year.

Thomaswaynem
02-07-2012, 05:30 PM
It was Oswalt's agent that went to the Reds, not the other way around. They want to try and drive the Cards to match Boston's offer. It is as simple as that. You shouldn't be telling posters about "immaturity" when you laid out the dumb: What are you going to do when they sign him stuff Tommy.

Maybe you should talk about what is "really" going to happen with the team this season rather than fantasies about a over the hill player who will turn 35 this year.

"when they sign him stuff Tommy." Once again, if you are going to make a personal slight at least let it make sense, and if you are asking a question, use a question mark. I also never made any mention of immaturity, I simply asked why you are so agitated with the talks. Nor did I ask what you would do when they sign him, merely if they sign him. But to answer your question, I would be pretty excited because even if Oswalt ends up being as "bad" as last year, he would still be one of our better pitchers.

I enjoy reading about Reds rumors whether they are substantiated or not. Quite simply Rage, if you are tired of hearing about Roy Oswalt speculation, then I would suggest to not read a Roy Oswalt thread. It seems simple enough to me.

alett12
02-08-2012, 02:39 PM
I really don't get the hate on Masset. I do agree he shouldn't pitch in the 1st month of the season but overall i think he's one of the best set up guys in baseball.

Nathan
02-08-2012, 03:29 PM
It was Oswalt's agent that went to the Reds, not the other way around. They want to try and drive the Cards to match Boston's offer. It is as simple as that.



Why would his agent use the Reds for that? The Reds are one of the smaller teams in the league, and Boston is one of the larger markets. If Oswalt's agent was trying to raise the Cardinals offer, then he could just use Boston's, they'd be a bigger threat in a bidding war.

alett12
02-09-2012, 12:45 PM
Why would his agent use the Reds for that? The Reds are one of the smaller teams in the league, and Boston is one of the larger markets. If Oswalt's agent was trying to raise the Cardinals offer, then he could just use Boston's, they'd be a bigger threat in a bidding war.

Because if he goes to cinci it would be a bigger threat to them than of he went to. Boston so they would pay more

Chris Sabowned
02-13-2012, 03:09 PM
Our favorite twitter mystery man Johnny Smith just tweeted again:

@JohnnySmith28
Francisco & Bailey to Blue Jays for prospects and Thames. Oswalt to be signed.

He's been right before, he's also been wrong before. Lets see if he is onto something this time.

[deleted]
02-13-2012, 03:27 PM
That doesn't see to make much sense for either team. Thames and Oswalt would replace Bailey and Francisco on the roster and then... what, we'd be totally relying on Rolen's bum shoulder and Cairo at third? Plus half the reason I want Oswalt in the first place is to eat up most of Arroyo's innings and give us some much needed SP depth. This wouldn't accomplish either, so I can't say I'm a fan.

brad1176
02-13-2012, 03:28 PM
Jog my memory, what trade/signing was this guy right about?

brad1176
02-13-2012, 03:36 PM
I'm not buying this one, doesn't make much sense.

HalMorrisRules
02-13-2012, 05:22 PM
Please disregard

BEETTLEBUG
02-13-2012, 06:06 PM
This trade will probaly won't be true but Frazier can back up Rolen.

[deleted]
02-13-2012, 10:22 PM
This trade will probaly won't be true but Frazier can back up Rolen.

Definitely agree with you... if he's on the roster. And right now it looks like the bench will be:

Valdez
Mesoraco/Hanigan
Ludwick
Francisco
Cairo

If this trade happened, Oswalt and Thames would presumably take the spots vacated by Bailey and Francisco.

This is the biggest part of why I dislike the Valdez trade.