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cinreds21
02-15-2012, 02:43 PM
Here it is:

http://htmlimg2.scribdassets.com/6bqospjr401ei8vx/images/1-1a4c736aec.jpg

Benihana
02-15-2012, 04:50 PM
Interesting that Corcino is coming to big league ST but Sulbaran is not. Also no Stephenson, who despite still being quite green, I thought they might provide with a "fantasy glimpse" for a week or two.

lollipopcurve
02-15-2012, 05:16 PM
Note that Lutz is listed as an OF.

RedsManRick
02-15-2012, 07:18 PM
Note that Lutz is listed as an OF.

That caught my eye too. As did Francisco as just INF, but Frazier as INF/OF.

GADawg
02-16-2012, 09:30 AM
i thought Willie Harris was an outfielder...am i thinking about the wrong guy? also it'll be interesting to see who gets the final couple of roster spots with Harris, Valdez, Janish, Frazier, Francisco, etc..

I wonder how the Reds have managed to hold on to Corky all this time...with the glut of no hit and sometimes no glove catchers throughout the Majors I'm surprised he doesn't find him a spot on a major league roster somewhere.

cinreds21
02-16-2012, 01:25 PM
i thought Willie Harris was an outfielder...am i thinking about the wrong guy? also it'll be interesting to see who gets the final couple of roster spots with Harris, Valdez, Janish, Frazier, Francisco, etc..

I wonder how the Reds have managed to hold on to Corky all this time...with the glut of no hit and sometimes no glove catchers throughout the Majors I'm surprised he doesn't find him a spot on a major league roster somewhere.

Harris plays everywhere.

Vottomatic
02-16-2012, 06:51 PM
Isn't Corky Miller supposed to be in the movie "Boogie Nights II"? :D

powersackers
02-18-2012, 03:13 AM
From the looks of it 5 true OF will not make the team. Only 4 and a swing guy like Frazier. Does Frazier hold his own in the OF? 2 Starts and 2 other games out there last year and I don't remember any of them in particular.

mth123
02-18-2012, 10:22 AM
From the looks of it 5 true OF will not make the team. Only 4 and a swing guy like Frazier. Does Frazier hold his own in the OF? 2 Starts and 2 other games out there last year and I don't remember any of them in particular.

I doubt Frazier makes it either now. Position players IMO:

1. Hanigan
2. Mesoraco
3. Votto
4. Phillips
5. Cozart
6. Rolen
7. Cairo
8. Francisco
9. Valdez
10, Bruce
11. Heisey
12, Ludwick
13. Stubbs

Pitchers:

1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Arroyo
4. Leake
5. Bailey
6. Madson
7. Marshall
8. Masset
9. Bray
10. Lecure
11. Arredondo
12. Francis

_Sir_Charles_
02-18-2012, 12:48 PM
I'd be very surprised if they kept both LeCure AND Francis. I think unless there's an injury, Francis is heading for AAA.

mth123
02-18-2012, 01:14 PM
I'd be very surprised if they kept both LeCure AND Francis. I think unless there's an injury, Francis is heading for AAA.

If that happens, Francis will opt out and they won't have him. Lecure needs to move into shorter stints with Francis the long man. They are both better than Ondrusek. Francis is the best alternative to the top 5 in the rotation and Lecure is a better 2 inning reliever than Ondrusek is (better in any role really).

_Sir_Charles_
02-18-2012, 01:20 PM
Francis MIGHT opt out. If it was a sure thing he could get a big league job, I think he would've had one by now. Personally, I like LeCure where he is. I like him as the 6th starter option right now if it means cutting Ondrusek.

I think if everyone remains healthy for ST then there's a good chance Francis accepts a AAA assignment. Because he'd know he'll be the first guy called up and he'd be getting regular work in AAA to stay sharp. As a long man in the pen, not so much.

mth123
02-18-2012, 03:10 PM
Francis MIGHT opt out. If it was a sure thing he could get a big league job, I think he would've had one by now. Personally, I like LeCure where he is. I like him as the 6th starter option right now if it means cutting Ondrusek.

I think if everyone remains healthy for ST then there's a good chance Francis accepts a AAA assignment. Because he'd know he'll be the first guy called up and he'd be getting regular work in AAA to stay sharp. As a long man in the pen, not so much.

Why all the Ondrusek love? He's a 12th man on the staff type at best. He has options and the Reds won't lose him. Guys like Judy, Brackman, Christiani and others may be just as good if not better. Heck, I still like Fisher better and I think he's a case of the yips waiting to happen. Fact is, Ondruseks are a dime a dozen. If one of the Reds top 5 starters goes on the DL, there will be a drop-off to Francis. The drop from him to any of the others is cavernous. I'd say Francis would be a 5.25 ERA or so guy. Those other guys will be lucky to be below 6.50 and that includes Chapman. The Reds simply can't take teh risk that the team will be handing starts to Scott Carroll and Chad Reineke.

_Sir_Charles_
02-18-2012, 03:34 PM
Why all the Ondrusek love? He's a 12th man on the staff type at best. He has options and the Reds won't lose him. Guys like Judy, Brackman, Christiani and others may be just as good if not better. Heck, I still like Fisher better and I think he's a case of the yips waiting to happen. Fact is, Ondruseks are a dime a dozen. If one of the Reds top 5 starters goes on the DL, there will be a drop-off to Francis. The drop from him to any of the others is cavernous. I'd say Francis would be a 5.25 ERA or so guy. Those other guys will be lucky to be below 6.50 and that includes Chapman. The Reds simply can't take teh risk that the team will be handing starts to Scott Carroll and Chad Reineke.

Mainly because I think he's much better than the guys you listed. He was flat out excellent the first half last year. But heavily overworked and it took it's toll in the last 2 months. And I see him as being a much more useful pitcher than Francis if the staff is healthy. That's why.

mth123
02-18-2012, 03:51 PM
Mainly because I think he's much better than the guys you listed. He was flat out excellent the first half last year. But heavily overworked and it took it's toll in the second half. And I see him as being a much more useful pitcher than Francis if the staff is healthy. That's why.

His K's are poor for a reliever. Walks are worse. He's been a BABIP guy who will be easily the worst guy on the staff if that normalizes. I'm not as tied to BABIP as many, but unless a guy has a long history of low BABIPs, I think there is something to it. A 40 point increase in BABIP and 5.00 ERA here we come. If he could do that going 6 innings at a time, I'd say he's needed. But doing that for 3 or 4 hitters isn't something that can't be found lying around the minor league system. Fact is, there are a lot of guys who can do what Ondrusek is likely to do. Francis isn't an ace, but if a starter is needed, I don't see anyone within a run and a half per 9 innings among the other alternatives.

On top of all that, no one is saying to cut Ondrusek. He can be optioned and would still be available if needed. Madson, Masset, Arredondo and Lecure are all better options for RH relief. I wouldn't risk losing the only reasonable option for rotation depth to keep such a pedestrian arm to pitch mop-up innings.

Will M
02-18-2012, 06:02 PM
i agree with mth123. Ondrusek was replacement level last year. i like him as the first guy up from AAA in case of injury rather than the 12th man.

powersackers
02-18-2012, 08:11 PM
I doubt Frazier makes it either now. Position players IMO:

1. Hanigan
2. Mesoraco
3. Votto
4. Phillips
5. Cozart
6. Rolen
7. Cairo
8. Francisco
9. Valdez
10, Bruce
11. Heisey
12, Ludwick
13. Stubbs

Pitchers:

1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Arroyo
4. Leake
5. Bailey
6. Madson
7. Marshall
8. Masset
9. Bray
10. Lecure
11. Arredondo
12. Francis

Valdez, yuck. I'd much rather leave emergency SS duties to Cairo/Frazier and carry a bat that is valuable. If Cozart fails to perform we are in deep trouble.

mth123
02-18-2012, 08:24 PM
Valdez, yuck. I'd much rather leave emergency SS duties to Cairo/Frazier and carry a bat that is valuable. If Cozart fails to perform we are in deep trouble.

I agree in theory. They could leave Janish in AAA to come up and field the position every day if Cozart goes down. If its just a game here or there for rest, Frazier may not be ideal, but it won't be something that swings the season. The Reds, though, dealt for Valdez, so I'm guessing they think differently.

757690
02-18-2012, 09:00 PM
I know his numbers didn't look that good, but my Phillies friends thought Valdez did a nice job filling in for Rollins at the beginning of last season. He's one of those fan favorites that has strong intangibles.

camisadelgolf
02-18-2012, 09:06 PM
If you need a defensive replacement or a guy who can make contact, Wilson Valdez is good to have. If you need him as a starting infielder, you better pray to the babip gods.

757690
02-19-2012, 03:22 PM
If you need a defensive replacement or a guy who can make contact, Wilson Valdez is good to have. If you need him as a starting infielder, you better pray to the babip gods.

Which is true of nearly every MLB backup SS, amd even some actual starting SS.

cinreds21
02-20-2012, 10:45 AM
The Reds only have 18 non-roster invites. I find that quite low.

Scrap Irony
02-20-2012, 12:05 PM
The Reds only have 18 non-roster invites. I find that quite low.

Just means they have few holes and know who they want in most spots.

Also shows that most NRI guys understand that as well.