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View Full Version : Valaika healthy, Francisco is not



cinreds21
02-20-2012, 11:48 AM
Two little tid bits:


Valaika spent most of last year at Triple-A. He hit .280 in 14 games with the Reds before suffering the injury on Sept. 11.



andddd


–Juan Francisco dealing with his left calf that put him the disabled list for month last year.

“He was in getting treatment this morning,” Baker said.

Reds1
02-20-2012, 05:33 PM
Two little tid bits:



andddd

3rd base could be a tough spot this year. Don't want to see Fraizer starting there.

dougdirt
02-20-2012, 06:46 PM
3rd base could be a tough spot this year. Don't want to see Fraizer starting there.

I would rather see Frazier there than Francisco.

My question is, why is Francisco still nursing a calf injury he suffered LAST year?

RedsManRick
02-20-2012, 07:04 PM
I would rather see Frazier there than Francisco.

My question is, why is Francisco still nursing a calf injury he suffered LAST year?

Didn't he play in the DWL?

lollipopcurve
02-20-2012, 07:09 PM
My question is, why is Francisco still nursing a calf injury he suffered LAST year?
He reinjured it over the winter. I have to say, I'm concerned this could be a chronic situation with Francisco -- if you watch his swing's follow through, he does something very odd with his back leg that appears to stress/twist his calf. Combining the follow through with the necessity of getting off fast towards first (pushing off the back leg) when the ball is hit, it puts that left lower leg at high risk. And this is not a simple fix, mechanically. Probably cannot be fixed, given the violence and muscle memory involved in his swing.

cinreds21
02-20-2012, 10:40 PM
David Bell played third...

RANDY IN INDY
02-20-2012, 10:53 PM
Not as well as his father.

Reds/Flyers Fan
02-20-2012, 11:58 PM
Juan Francisco is testing my patience.

And I really don't want to see Valaika starting games at third base. He's just not a starter for a division-winning team.

Kc61
02-21-2012, 01:09 AM
I would rather see Frazier there than Francisco.

My question is, why is Francisco still nursing a calf injury he suffered LAST year?

News flash. If Francisco can't go after spring training, it won't be Frazier who goes north.

It will be Willie Harris.

I can't remember the last decent baseball team that only had two lefty hitters. Even three is very light.

Reds will keep that third lefty bat. If not Francisco, then Harris.

reds44
02-21-2012, 01:33 AM
Harris has only played 33 career games at third base though, and they need somebody to caddy for Rolen.

EDIT: Apparently I thought Cairo was dead.

Blitz Dorsey
02-21-2012, 02:13 AM
Juan Francisco is testing my patience.

And I really don't want to see Valaika starting games at third base. He's just not a starter for a division-winning team.

Well, of course he's not. The question is whether he can be a viable backup for Rolen. I think he can, although I agree with you that I'd rather see someone else in there if Scotty Roles goes down with an injury.

Caveat Emperor
02-21-2012, 04:37 AM
Ideally, you'd like to see Francisco get hot this spring so that the Reds can ship him off somewhere. Who knows -- the last time the Reds had a free-swinging, out-of-options, mediocre-defense, suborbital launch-power slugger they managed to turn him into Bronson Arroyo.

Kc61
02-21-2012, 09:53 AM
Ideally, you'd like to see Francisco get hot this spring so that the Reds can ship him off somewhere. Who knows -- the last time the Reds had a free-swinging, out-of-options, mediocre-defense, suborbital launch-power slugger they managed to turn him into Bronson Arroyo.

Ideally, you'd like to see Francisco get HEALTHY this spring so he can play the role intended for him. Lefty compliment to Rolen at third base and lefty hitter off the bench.

CySeymour
02-21-2012, 10:09 AM
I would rather see Frazier there than Francisco.

I'm not questioning your statement, but why do you feel this way? Defense?

_Sir_Charles_
02-21-2012, 10:21 AM
I agree with Doug on this. I think Francisco has a higher upside, but I think the better overall major leaguer will be Frazier. He's as good as Francisco defensively and I think he'll be a much better hitter as well. I see contact, K's and lack of walks being the achilles' heel for Juan. Todd doesn't have the power that Juan does, but his better hit tool will translate into as many dingers (if not more) that Juan IMO.

Redsfan320
02-21-2012, 10:39 AM
At this point, I'm higher on Frazier than Francisco as well, due to versatility, fielding, and contact. JMO

320

Caveat Emperor
02-21-2012, 01:03 PM
Ideally, you'd like to see Francisco get HEALTHY this spring so he can play the role intended for him. Lefty compliment to Rolen at third base and lefty hitter off the bench.

I suppose -- but I'm of the opinion that Francisco will never make enough contact at the major-league level to ever be useful, given his horrid walk rate. If I'm the Reds brass, I'm actively looking to mine any value I can from him.

757690
02-21-2012, 01:07 PM
News flash. If Francisco can't go after spring training, it won't be Frazier who goes north.

It will be Willie Harris.

I can't remember the last decent baseball team that only had two lefty hitters. Even three is very light.

Reds will keep that third lefty bat. If not Francisco, then Harris.

I agree. But the difference between Cairo and Frazier filling in for Rolen every now and then isn't that big. I just hope the Reds call up Frazier to start everyday if Rolen goes down for an extended period.

Kc61
02-21-2012, 01:56 PM
I suppose -- but I'm of the opinion that Francisco will never make enough contact at the major-league level to ever be useful, given his horrid walk rate. If I'm the Reds brass, I'm actively looking to mine any value I can from him.

We've had this Francisco debate for 100 years on RedsZone, I don't think it's time to polish it off.

The main issue is that the guy was definitely counted on to make the team this year. The Reds clearly intended for JF to handle a bunch of games at third. I believe they thought he would handle some third last year as well.

He got hurt last year and is hurt now. Maybe he is injury prone. I don't know.

If he doesn't get healthy, it will open up a spot for another player. I'm guessing it's Willie Harris, some folks think it's Frazier, who knows.

The funny thing about spring training is that, coming in, everyone focuses on the team ON PAPER. We soon learn, early every spring, that there are injuries and sometimes other issues that require us to focus on team depth.

So some of these guys picked up on minor league contracts or who are slated for AAA really do become relevant early on.

mth123
02-21-2012, 07:51 PM
AAA

Francisco 742 PAs, 170Ks = 22.9%
Frazier 966 PAs, 221Ks = 22.9%

Giving Frazier a contact edge over Francisco seems like shakey footing IMO. Francisco has a full 100 OPS point advantage in AAA and he's 16 months younger. Despite common belief, Francisco is a better defender at 3B as well from what I've seen.

I think Frazier can be a pretty decent supersub, but writing off Francisco seems premature. The Reds need more guys who can hit against RHP. I'm guessing Francisco will be among the top 5 players on the roster against RHP.

Kc61
02-22-2012, 01:25 PM
AAA

Francisco 742 PAs, 170Ks = 22.9%
Frazier 966 PAs, 221Ks = 22.9%

Giving Frazier a contact edge over Francisco seems like shakey footing IMO. Francisco has a full 100 OPS point advantage in AAA and he's 16 months younger. Despite common belief, Francisco is a better defender at 3B as well from what I've seen.

I think Frazier can be a pretty decent supersub, but writing off Francisco seems premature. The Reds need more guys who can hit against RHP. I'm guessing Francisco will be among the top 5 players on the roster against RHP.

My impression of Frazier is this - good power, will (near term) succeed mostly against lefties, has good value due to versatility. If things go well for him, he could be the next Mark Loretta, which is good. A third baseman with the ability to play other positions and hit with some power.

On this 2012 club, Francisco, with his lefty bat and ability against RHP, adds more if healthy. The Reds can really use that lefty bat. Francisco's future, though, is more unclear. He could go either way but still has high upside. Needs to stay healthy; if he stays hurt this year it will become a more serious issue, the injury prone label.

To me, if Francisco is healthy he is the natural guy to get a chance on the Reds, over Frazier. But the Reds did Todd a favor by giving him minor league exposure in a lot of positions. He even can fill in at SS, which is a huge plus.

Overall, the Reds have Votto and Bruce and all righty hitters. I think this hurts Frazier's chances to stay with the club from the outset. But he will undoubtedly see major league time this year. I look for Todd to have a long and successful career in his role.

When you look at the depth chart, Frazier is the likely guy to come up the big club in case of injury to an infielder or outfielder. So we'll be seeing him around the campus much of the year.