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Boss-Hog
02-20-2012, 01:16 PM
All,

Please use this thread for all 2012 Bengals-related discussion.

traderumor
02-20-2012, 01:27 PM
I don't care which individual player they draft, just continue the pattern of the last two drafts.

Also, please get some DBs that can play immediately or a potentially good team is going to underachieve because of poor pass coverage in a pass happy era.

Oh, and Mike Brown is to blame for anything that goes wrong, somebody else must be given the credit if something is positive :p

texasdave
02-21-2012, 04:59 AM
The Bengals just finished hosting free agent CB Stanford Routt this weekend for a visit. Routt was released last Thursday just one year into a $54.5 million, five-year contract, which ended his seven-year tenure in Oakland as the team heads in a new direction. He’s already visited the Buffalo Bills on Tuesday, the Kansas City Chiefs on Wednesday and Thursday.Now according to Profootballtalk.com, Routt is ready to decide which team he will sign with after cancelling his upcoming visit with the Cowboys. Since he is ready to decide right after his visit in Cincinnati, one would have to think that bolds well for the Bengals.

Boss-Hog
02-21-2012, 06:33 AM
Routt signed with Kansas City.

texasdave
02-21-2012, 11:22 AM
Stanford re-Routts to KC. :)

Stray
02-21-2012, 01:57 PM
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it is highly unlikely that the Steelers will use the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. Not that surprising since they're already 11 million over the cap.

He could become a Bengal, though we would lose a 1st round pick. Considering we have 2, and that we could really use another WR, this has to happen. We have plenty of cap space to make this move. AJ Green, Mike Wallace and Jermaine Gresham?? Sign me up.

HotCorner
02-21-2012, 03:54 PM
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it is highly unlikely that the Steelers will use the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. Not that surprising since they're already 11 million over the cap.

He could become a Bengal, though we would lose a 1st round pick. Considering we have 2, and that we could really use another WR, this has to happen. We have plenty of cap space to make this move. AJ Green, Mike Wallace and Jermaine Gresham?? Sign me up.

I couldn't agree more.

Sea Ray
02-21-2012, 04:00 PM
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it is highly unlikely that the Steelers will use the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. Not that surprising since they're already 11 million over the cap.

He could become a Bengal, though we would lose a 1st round pick. Considering we have 2, and that we could really use another WR, this has to happen. We have plenty of cap space to make this move. AJ Green, Mike Wallace and Jermaine Gresham?? Sign me up.

If they want to keep him they ought to use the tag. If they don't mind losing him then a tender is a fine option but it won't make him cheaper to keep. A tender opens them up to matching another offer and a team with plenty of cap room can offer a very unfriendly cap number

Mario-Rijo
02-21-2012, 05:09 PM
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, it is highly unlikely that the Steelers will use the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. Not that surprising since they're already 11 million over the cap.

He could become a Bengal, though we would lose a 1st round pick. Considering we have 2, and that we could really use another WR, this has to happen. We have plenty of cap space to make this move. AJ Green, Mike Wallace and Jermaine Gresham?? Sign me up.

If you sign Wallace it isn't gonna come cheap and so the team that does should ask itself if they can take FULL advantage of his talents. Not sure the Bengals can say that. I like Dalton quite a bit but not sure his arm is ever gonna be good enough to take advantage of Wallace's best asset, speed. I think the Bengals will look elsewhere for their other starting WR (Manningham or re-up Simpson is what I expect). And put their dollars towards the OL and the running game with an eye towards the defensive back 7.

I love Wallace's ability and would support the move even though I am not overly optimistic about how well it would turn out. I think someone like Cleveland (if they draft RG3) or N.E. will make that play and as well they should. Bad news for Pittsburgh because IMO Wallace makes that offense work.

**Oops, check that I guess Cleveland would have to give up the #4 pick for Wallace so that probably isn't likely to happen.

Mario-Rijo
02-21-2012, 05:12 PM
If they want to keep him they ought to use the tag. If they don't mind losing him then a tender is a fine option but it won't make him cheaper to keep. A tender opens them up to matching another offer and a team with plenty of cap room can offer a very unfriendly cap number

They really have no choice. 9 million over I think and the Franchise tag for a WR is like 9 million so at minimum they'd have to clear 18 million and of course they like everyone have holes to fill beyond Wallace. If they have any chance keeping him they'd have to really strip it down. Personally I think they should he's that valuable to them or anyone for that matter.

Sea Ray
02-21-2012, 05:36 PM
They really have no choice. 9 million over I think and the Franchise tag for a WR is like 9 million so at minimum they'd have to clear 18 million and of course they like everyone have holes to fill beyond Wallace. If they have any chance keeping him they'd have to really strip it down. Personally I think they should he's that valuable to them or anyone for that matter.

My point is if they have to match another team's offer they'll likely have a cap number around 9 mill anyway

Stray
02-21-2012, 05:39 PM
If you sign Wallace it isn't gonna come cheap and so the team that does should ask itself if they can take FULL advantage of his talents. Not sure the Bengals can say that. I like Dalton quite a bit but not sure his arm is ever gonna be good enough to take advantage of Wallace's best asset, speed. I think the Bengals will look elsewhere for their other starting WR (Manningham or re-up Simpson is what I expect). And put their dollars towards the OL and the running game with an eye towards the defensive back 7.

I love Wallace's ability and would support the move even though I am not overly optimistic about how well it would turn out. I think someone like Cleveland (if they draft RG3) or N.E. will make that play and as well they should. Bad news for Pittsburgh because IMO Wallace makes that offense work.

**Oops, check that I guess Cleveland would have to give up the #4 pick for Wallace so that probably isn't likely to happen.

I guess it comes down to how he's viewed by our FO and coaches. If he's really looked at as just a one trick pony (go routes) then I agree it's probably not the best fit here. I will say that Dalton has a bigger arm than I thought he did, but most of his deep passes this year were purposely underthrown because of safties and then AJ Green would always win jump balls. I'm not sure Mike Wallace is that kinda receiver.

I think Wallace is a little more than that, and having him lined up opposite Green would put defenses in a real bind. You can't really lean all coverages either way in that situation.

I've heard NE has been really eyeballing Brandon Lloyd as well. I think either receiver would be a good fit there, but Wallace is the deep threat that they don't have.

I guess the good news is that there are some guys available out there, and even if we don't land Wallace there's plenty of FA talent left. But still, 60 mil under the cap, I'm trying.

Benihana
02-21-2012, 06:03 PM
My Bengals plan for this offseason:

1. See what happens with the Saints situation. If they don't sign Brees before FA begins, they'll have to franchise him leaving Colston and Nicks unprotected. I'd monitor the situation and make a play for whichever one we can get on a better deal. If they do sign Brees before FA begins, they can use the Franchise tag on either Nicks or Colston. I'd then pursue whichever doesn't have the tag. Nicks is the best OL on the market and he plays our biggest position of need, and Colston is the exact kind of receiver we need- big possession guy that can also be an occasional deep threat. However I wouldn't give him top 5 WR money.

2. Pursue Michael Bush if he doesn't get the Franchise tag. As we've discussed, he is a local guy who is quite versatile and has proven himself despite not accumulating a lot of wear and tear. That said, he is best used as a complimentary player, and would give us the flexibility to "wait and see" if Richardson falls to 17. If he does, take him and you have one of the best dynamic-duos of a running game in the league, bowever you don't have to overpay and trade up to get him, as we'd be nowhere near as desperate for an RB. If Bush is franchised or we can't get him, pursue Peyton Hillis on a one year deal and employ the same strategy regarding Richardson.

3. If you cannot sign Colston or Nicks, sign Ben Grubbs.

4. If we've only signed one of the above FA (Grubbs/Nicks/Colston/Bush/Hillis) then sign LaRon Landry. If we've already signed two of those guys, we're probably done with impact guys in FA. Regardless, I would definitely sign at least two of: Grubbs/Nicks/Colston/Bush/Hillis/Landry. If we can sign three of them, we get an A+

5. DRAFT: If we do NOT sign a RB like Bush or Hillis, wait to see if Richardson drops out of the top 10. If he does, trade up using our 21 pick and 2nd rounder and draft him. Then, trade down from 17 to a spot in the mid-to-late 20s and pickup the 2nd rounder that we lost. Draft the BPA at that point, especially if one of Barron/Kirkpatrick/Floyd/Glenn are still on the board. One of those guys + Richardson would be a great haul for the 1st round, especially with 2-3 of the FA I mentioned signed.

If we DO sign Bush or Hillis, just be patient and draft the two BPAs from Richardson/DeCastro/Barron/Kirkpatrick/Floyd/Glenn. Then draft the absolute BPA in the 2nd round, almost regardless of position (except QB). At that point we are just building depth.

IN SUMMARY
1. Sign 2-3 FA from the list of M.Bush/Landry/Nicks/Grubbs/Colston/Hillis (the latter on a 1 year deal only)
2. Draft Trent Richardson (if he's there) and/or BPA from DeCastro/Glenn/Kirkpatrick/Barron/Floyd

Thoughts?

Mario-Rijo
02-21-2012, 06:18 PM
Like to see the Bengals do the following:

Preferential Re-signs in Bold Red others who should be kept short of a better replacement in basic Red
2012 Bengal FA's
Cedric Benson - RB
Andre Caldwell - WR
Anthony Collins - OT
Jon Fanene - DL
Kelly Jennings - CB
Brandon Johnson - OLB
Adam (Pac-Man) Jones - CB
Manny Lawson - OLB
Nate Livings - OG
Mike McGlynn - OC/OG
Reggie Nelson - FS
Mike Nugent - K
Dennis Roland - OT
Frostee Rucker - DE/DL
Jerome Simpson - WR
Pat Sims - DT
Bobbie Williams - OG

RFA's
Clark Harris - LS/TE
Nick Hayden - DL
Chris Pressley - FB
Dan Skuta - LB

Exclusive Rights FA's
Jeromy Miles - DB (FS)
Cedric Peerman - RB
Vincent Rey - LB

Not sure I wouldn't re-sign Simpson I probably would I think he still has upside and would come at a fair price. But I'd like someone who better fits the offense. Someone with surer hands, better after the catch and with maybe a bit more speed (Manningham being my choice). I'd re-sign any of the OG's for the right role (backups all of them IMO) and right price for such a role. The same with Adam Jones, as a 3rd/4th corner and a punt returner but at the right price and only if we don't sign a better 3rd corner who isn't gonna get burned deep. Don't know enough about Nick Hayden to make a determination on him could be ousted by draft choices anyhow.

Cuts
Chris Crocker - DB - He's toast
Robert Geathers - DE - 4.2 million salary in '12, last year of deal
Taylor Mays - DB - IMO Not an NFL safety

Priority FA's to sign
Ben Grubbs - LG (Bal.) Rather Nicks but he is likely to be off the board
Tyvon Branch - SS (Oak.) - Rather have Griffin but trying to be a bit more realistic
Chilo Rachal - RG (S.F.) - Needs some work pass blocking but awesome run blocker already and seemingly has the ability to pass block quite well.
Mario Manningham - WR (NYG) - Fits the offense really well and cost shouldn't be prohibitive.

I'd love to go for the big names but I'm fine with these guys, preferably no one worse. 4 starters allows for a best player available approach to the draft.

Early round picks
1A - Trent Richardson - RB Bama, D. DeCastro OG, Janoris Jenkins CB
1B - DeCastro OG, Jenkins CB, L. Miller RB Miami
2B - Doug Martin RB, Mark Barron S, LB/DL

It's a bit early on the draft choices as I like to see the combine numbers and such 1st but that is what I am thinking at this point depending on how it falls.

Mario-Rijo
02-21-2012, 06:23 PM
My Bengals plan for this offseason:

1. See what happens with the Saints situation. If they don't sign Brees before FA begins, they'll have to franchise him leaving Colston and Nicks unprotected. I'd monitor the situation and make a play for whichever one we can get on a better deal. If they do sign Brees before FA begins, they can use the Franchise tag on either Nicks or Colston. I'd then pursue whichever doesn't have the tag. Nicks is the best OL on the market and he plays our biggest position of need, and Colston is the exact kind of receiver we need- big possession guy that can also be an occasional deep threat. However I wouldn't give him top 5 WR money.

2. Pursue Michael Bush if he doesn't get the Franchise tag. As we've discussed, he is a local guy who is quite versatile and has proven himself despite not accumulating a lot of wear and tear. That said, he is best used as a complimentary player, and would give us the flexibility to "wait and see" if Richardson falls to 17. If he does, take him and you have one of the best dynamic-duos of a running game in the league, bowever you don't have to overpay and trade up to get him, as we'd be nowhere near as desperate for an RB. If Bush is franchised or we can't get him, pursue Peyton Hillis on a one year deal and employ the same strategy regarding Richardson.

3. If you cannot sign Colston or Nicks, sign Ben Grubbs.

4. If we've only signed one of the above FA (Grubbs/Nicks/Colston/Bush/Hillis) then sign LaRon Landry. If we've already signed two of those guys, we're probably done with impact guys in FA. Regardless, I would definitely sign at least two of: Grubbs/Nicks/Colston/Bush/Hillis/Landry. If we can sign three of them, we get an A+

5. DRAFT: If we do NOT sign a RB like Bush or Hillis, wait to see if Richardson drops out of the top 10. If he does, trade up using our 21 pick and 2nd rounder and draft him. Then, trade down from 17 to a spot in the mid-to-late 20s and pickup the 2nd rounder that we lost. Draft the BPA at that point, especially if one of Barron/Kirkpatrick/Floyd/Glenn are still on the board. One of those guys + Richardson would be a great haul for the 1st round, especially with 2-3 of the FA I mentioned signed.

If we DO sign Bush or Hillis, just be patient and draft the two BPAs from Richardson/DeCastro/Barron/Kirkpatrick/Floyd/Glenn. Then draft the absolute BPA in the 2nd round, almost regardless of position (except QB). At that point we are just building depth.

IN SUMMARY
1. Sign 2-3 FA from the list of M.Bush/Landry/Nicks/Grubbs/Colston/Hillis (the latter on a 1 year deal only)
2. Draft Trent Richardson (if he's there) and/or BPA from DeCastro/Glenn/Kirkpatrick/Barron/Floyd

Thoughts?

Think I'd rather have Mike Tolbert than either of those 2 RB's. Bush is a decent backup but I don't think much of Hillis he IMO has been exposed as a RB. Neither make for a good RB if they have to start. Like Mario M. over Colston as I think Colston might have a bit higher price tag. Like Michael Griffin ever so slightly over Landry simply due to health issues. Wouldn't draft Kirkpatrick at all, not seeing him doing well in the NFL at CB. Barron only in the 2nd IMO.

Benihana
02-21-2012, 06:33 PM
Think I'd rather have Mike Tolbert than either of those 2 RB's. Bush is a decent backup but I don't think much of Hillis he IMO has been exposed as a RB. Neither make for a good RB if they have to start. Like Mario M. over Colston as I think Colston might have a bit higher price tag. Like Michael Griffin ever so slightly over Landry simply due to health issues. Wouldn't draft Kirkpatrick at all, not seeing him doing well in the NFL at CB. Barron only in the 2nd IMO.

I like Barron better than that and would be elated to have him in the 2nd (would be happy with him at 21).

I'd be happy with Griffin and/or Manningham- although I think the latter may command a "Super Bowl premium" a la Dexter Jackson from a few years back.

I'd still much prefer Bush or even Hillis (on a 1 yr) to Tolbert, who I think is more of a goalline back and has little big play ability.

I have no interest in Jenkins at 17 or Miller at 21. I'd prefer to get Richardson, Floyd or DeCastro at 17, and Glenn or one of the Bama DBs at 21. Jenkins would be tolerable at 21 if all my other guys were off the board. No thanks to Miller in the 1st round.

Agree with your cuts (Crocker and Geathers) although I am intrigued by Mays "big play ability" on Special Teams. Agreed he's likely not an NFL Safety.

Ohayou
02-21-2012, 06:43 PM
DeCastro will never fall that low.

RedsfaninMT
02-21-2012, 10:39 PM
DeCastro will never fall that low.

I know it's ESPN, but they have us taking DeCastro with our 2nd pick in their latest mock. I don't see that happening either.

bucksfan2
02-22-2012, 08:11 AM
Regarding Wallace. I heard Schefter talking this morning about his situation. He said the Steelers will likely just offer him a 1st round comp contract (not sure of the exact wording). He said both that way and a franchise tag will cost a 1st round pick but the 1st round comp offer won't have near the cap hit for the Steelers.

Schefter mentioned not only the Bengals but also the Ravens and Pats who could get involved with Wallace. Wallace with the Bengals would really make the offense better. It would open up the underneath game for a TE and slot WR (Shipply). His speed along with Green would force some over the top coverage from Safety's and really open up the offense. I don't see it happening, but if your going to use a 1st round pick, Wallace would be a nice choice.

Sea Ray
02-22-2012, 09:44 AM
Regarding Wallace. I heard Schefter talking this morning about his situation. He said the Steelers will likely just offer him a 1st round comp contract (not sure of the exact wording). He said both that way and a franchise tag will cost a 1st round pick but the 1st round comp offer won't have near the cap hit for the Steelers.Schefter mentioned not only the Bengals but also the Ravens and Pats who could get involved with Wallace. Wallace with the Bengals would really make the offense better. It would open up the underneath game for a TE and slot WR (Shipply). His speed along with Green would force some over the top coverage from Safety's and really open up the offense. I don't see it happening, but if your going to use a 1st round pick, Wallace would be a nice choice.

Schefter is only right on this if no other team offers him a hefty contract. If they do then the Steelers will take a big cap hit should they decide to keep Wallace. The issue here isn't a cap hit. It's whether they want to keep him or not. I think it's going to cost them a ton in cap space if they want him regardless

Mario-Rijo
02-22-2012, 11:46 AM
Regarding Wallace. I heard Schefter talking this morning about his situation. He said the Steelers will likely just offer him a 1st round comp contract (not sure of the exact wording). He said both that way and a franchise tag will cost a 1st round pick but the 1st round comp offer won't have near the cap hit for the Steelers.

Schefter mentioned not only the Bengals but also the Ravens and Pats who could get involved with Wallace. Wallace with the Bengals would really make the offense better. It would open up the underneath game for a TE and slot WR (Shipply). His speed along with Green would force some over the top coverage from Safety's and really open up the offense. I don't see it happening, but if your going to use a 1st round pick, Wallace would be a nice choice.

In theory yeah but the defense will only do such a thing if they believe Dalton can consistently beat them over the top. In order for that to be so the OL needs improved and we need to hope Dalton's arm strength improves some, at times last year he struggled with it.

Benihana
02-22-2012, 02:24 PM
I worry about Dalton throwing deep balls. AJ Green had to circle back and basically "jump ball" most of the deep routes last season. I'm not sure Wallace is the perfect fit, especially if we had to give up a 1st rounder in addition to the big deal.

What we need out of the #2 WR spot IMO is another TJ Houshmandzadeh circa 2005.

Benihana
02-22-2012, 02:24 PM
DeCastro will never fall that low.

Kiper has him rated #17 on his latest Big Board. Just saying...

Boss-Hog
02-22-2012, 03:52 PM
I worry about Dalton throwing deep balls. AJ Green had to circle back and basically "jump ball" most of the deep routes last season. I'm not sure Wallace is the perfect fit, especially if we had to give up a 1st rounder in addition to the big deal.

What we need out of the #2 WR spot IMO is another TJ Houshmandzadeh circa 2005.

As much as I'd like to have Wallace and the Steelers not to, I agree with you.

WMR
02-22-2012, 04:33 PM
What are the chances Jerome Simpson goes to prison?

texasdave
02-22-2012, 05:47 PM
What are the chances Jerome Simpson goes to prison?


And hooks up with Burt Reynolds? :)

hebroncougar
02-22-2012, 05:50 PM
I say no to Wallace, who will command a big deal. It's much cheaper to build through the draft with the CBA. I bet Mike Brown does too.

RiverRat13
02-23-2012, 07:55 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/35725/tale-of-the-tape-dalton-yates

"Andy Dalton has thrived this season when throwing deep. Dalton ranks eighth in the league in yards per attempt (13.3), eighth in plays of 30-plus yards (17) and 10th in total EPA (Expected Points Added) with 34.6."

Benihana
02-23-2012, 08:14 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/35725/tale-of-the-tape-dalton-yates

"Andy Dalton has thrived this season when throwing deep. Dalton ranks eighth in the league in yards per attempt (13.3), eighth in plays of 30-plus yards (17) and 10th in total EPA (Expected Points Added) with 34.6."

That's mainly thanks to some phenomenal plays by AJ Green

dabvu2498
02-23-2012, 09:33 AM
What are the chances Jerome Simpson goes to prison?

Or the witness protection program...

Mario-Rijo
02-23-2012, 09:52 AM
That's mainly thanks to some phenomenal plays by AJ Green

Not to mention the fact they are counting 30 yarders and up, to me that's not "deep". I think 30-40 is doable for virtually every NFL QB, it's more like 40 and beyond that I would consider deep.

Hoosier Red
02-23-2012, 10:36 AM
While I agree that Wallace may not be the perfect fit for the reasons mentioned, I think Dalton's "lack of arm strength" fits with Green's skill set spectacularly. Essentially they only throw deep to Green where he can get isolated into single coverage and it's him versus a much smaller cb. It's not as much fun I suppose as hitting a speed burner in mid stride but there's a hell of a lot more margin for error timing wise and it has a lot fewer things that need to go right to make it work. Essentially if Green ever sees single coverage, it should almost be an automatic, run 30 yards turn around and find the ball. I'll take the odds on him getting that ten times over even a strong armed quarterback hitting a receiver in stride.

Stray
02-23-2012, 11:16 AM
I always assumed most of those under throws were purposely done. Teams always had a safety helping out on AJ, had Dalton led him perfectly on a lot of those passes it would have been into trouble. I just assumed the under thrown jump ball was what he was aiming for.

There were times that he hit him in stride when there wasn't help over the top. Against Seattle on a bomb, and against St. Louis. He also overthrew him on quite a few occasions.

It's not often that you're going to want your QB to lay one out 55 yards in the air or anything, if he can hit the 40 yard-ish plays with any accuracy whatsoever it would be more than enough to hit a lot of homeruns imo.

LoganBuck
02-24-2012, 08:11 AM
My bold pre-combine predictions.

DeCastro won't test as well as people think.
Janoris Jenkins will test very well.
Most of the weekend will be spent discussing Peyton Manning.

Richardson will start moving down some draft boards. This will be a combination of the knee, needs of the teams picking, and his interviews. I think he stands a shot at getting to 17. The question is do the Bengals address the position in FA. If they do, what do they do on draft day, if he is available? I would probably pass.

Benihana
02-24-2012, 09:53 AM
My bold pre-combine predictions.

DeCastro won't test as well as people think.
Janoris Jenkins will test very well.
Most of the weekend will be spent discussing Peyton Manning.

Richardson will start moving down some draft boards. This will be a combination of the knee, needs of the teams picking, and his interviews. I think he stands a shot at getting to 17. The question is do the Bengals address the position in FA. If they do, what do they do on draft day, if he is available? I would probably pass.

The only RB on the FA market I really like is Michael Bush. And I'd still take Richardson if he's there at 17- even if they sign Bush. Even if he falls out of the top 15, I have a hard time seeing how he gets past the Jets at 16 given their needs. Still, I'd LOVE for it to happen. Richardson, Floyd, and DeCastro are the top three guys I'd like to see the Bengals get in this draft (assuming Blackmon and Claiborne are unrealistic). If the Bengals could somehow get 2 of those 3 (and sign the other position in FA), I'd dance a jig!

Sea Ray
02-24-2012, 10:11 AM
The only RB on the FA market I really like is Michael Bush. And I'd still take Richardson if he's there at 17- even if they sign Bush. Even if he falls out of the top 15, I have a hard time seeing how he gets past the Jets at 16 given their needs. Still, I'd LOVE for it to happen. Richardson, Floyd, and DeCastro are the top three guys I'd like to see the Bengals get in this draft (assuming Blackmon and Claiborne are unrealistic). If the Bengals could somehow get 2 of those 3 (and sign the other position in FA), I'd dance a jig!

What's not to like about Marshawn Lynch?

Benihana
02-24-2012, 12:21 PM
What's not to like about Marshawn Lynch?

I don't think he's going anywhere. Ditto Ray Rice, Matt Forte, and likely Arian Foster. Should have qualified my statement with guys who will likely be available.

bucksfan2
02-24-2012, 12:29 PM
I don't think he's going anywhere. Ditto Ray Rice, Matt Forte, and likely Arian Foster. Should have qualified my statement with guys who will likely be available.

I wouldn't mind paying a 1st round pick for Ray Rice or even Matt Forte. I wonder how much of a "system" back Foster is. Not saying that he isn't a great back, but that Kubiac system has done wonders for Foster's backup as well.

IMO draft picks are valued at an all time high right now. At 21 your odds of getting a Ray Rice caliber player are very slim. Even if Baltimore franchises Rice you can still sign him giving up your 1st round draft pick. Rice make the Bengals much, much better while also hurting the Ravens. Rice would give Dalton a nice outlet to have catching the ball out of the backfield. He would be a fantastic player to have in orange and black. That said I just don't see it happening.

Benihana
02-24-2012, 02:02 PM
I wouldn't mind paying a 1st round pick for Ray Rice or even Matt Forte. I wonder how much of a "system" back Foster is. Not saying that he isn't a great back, but that Kubiac system has done wonders for Foster's backup as well.

IMO draft picks are valued at an all time high right now. At 21 your odds of getting a Ray Rice caliber player are very slim. Even if Baltimore franchises Rice you can still sign him giving up your 1st round draft pick. Rice make the Bengals much, much better while also hurting the Ravens. Rice would give Dalton a nice outlet to have catching the ball out of the backfield. He would be a fantastic player to have in orange and black. That said I just don't see it happening.

The point is, their teams aren't going to let them go. They are going to Franchise them and match any offer. I'd give up a 1st rounder for Rice or Forte also, but it won't matter.

bucksfan2
02-24-2012, 02:07 PM
The point is, their teams aren't going to let them go. They are going to Franchise them and match any offer. I'd give up a 1st rounder for Rice or Forte also, but it won't matter.

Not necessarily. The Bengals could sign them to an offer sheet that each of their teams can't match.

Benihana
02-24-2012, 02:08 PM
Not necessarily. The Bengals could sign them to an offer sheet that each of their teams can't match.

Not going to happen. I'll bet you on it. Specifically with Rice.

bucksfan2
02-24-2012, 02:15 PM
Not going to happen. I'll bet you on it. Specifically with Rice.

Never said it was going to happen. Not going to be on something that I realize isn't going to happen. Just saying that it could happen within the rules of the league.

Ohayou
02-24-2012, 02:50 PM
You can forget about Wallace. The Steelers are intent on keeping him.

Mario-Rijo
02-25-2012, 09:20 AM
My bold pre-combine predictions.

DeCastro won't test as well as people think.
Janoris Jenkins will test very well.
Most of the weekend will be spent discussing Peyton Manning.

Richardson will start moving down some draft boards. This will be a combination of the knee, needs of the teams picking, and his interviews. I think he stands a shot at getting to 17. The question is do the Bengals address the position in FA. If they do, what do they do on draft day, if he is available? I would probably pass.

I'll be surprised if DeCastro doesn't test pretty well across the board. But not sure it'll matter if he isn't stellar most people seem to like him because he is as polished as he is talented. Jenkins won't likely run a staggering 40 but he'll probably run well enough and test well in most every other aspect.

I think you are right on Richardson, he is sliding a bit. He is likely to go in the neighborhood of #17. And if there yeah I jump on him.

Hoping for something like Richardson, DeCastro & CB Trumaine Johnson in the 1st 2 rounds.

LoganBuck
02-25-2012, 02:14 PM
Well, I was wrong on Decastro's agility. He pretty much solidified his status. Cordy Glenn running a 5.15 40, at 345? Wow.

Mario-Rijo
02-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Well, I was wrong on Decastro's agility. He pretty much solidified his status. Cordy Glenn running a 5.15 40, at 345? Wow.

Well DeCastro didn't run very well 5.43 below average. Doesn't seem to jibe with his gametape but who knows. The thing I like about Glenn is he has the measurements to be a potential RT down the road if need be and I'm not sure Andre Smith will remain a Bengal when he comes a FA. I'd hate to invest the contract he'll no doubt be looking for on a season or 2 of good but not stellar play. Having Glenn at RG would give the Bengals some leverage in such a situation at the very least. Not sure about his feet/quickness but it seems at least possible.

LoganBuck
02-25-2012, 03:21 PM
Well DeCastro didn't run very well 5.43 below average. Doesn't seem to jibe with his gametape but who knows. The thing I like about Glenn is he has the measurements to be a potential RT down the road if need be and I'm not sure Andre Smith will remain a Bengal when he comes a FA. I'd hate to invest the contract he'll no doubt be looking for on a season or 2 of good but not stellar play. Having Glenn at RG would give the Bengals some leverage in such a situation at the very least. Not sure about his feet/quickness but it seems at least possible.

DeCastro looked better in the cones and position drills than I expected. The reason I expected him to drop is because pretty much every year, the top guard comes to the combine, and "disappoints". Guards are more of a 2nd-4th round position. Teams are looking for confirmation biases. Decastro did everything I expect an interior lineman to do. Glenn does provide insurance against Smith leaving. I just don't want to give Andre Smith a big payday. I read were he was like the 13th best statistical tackle in the league this season (Whitworth was like 5th). I worry that he will go back to being a slob if the carrot is taken away.

Mario-Rijo
02-25-2012, 10:17 PM
DeCastro looked better in the cones and position drills than I expected. The reason I expected him to drop is because pretty much every year, the top guard comes to the combine, and "disappoints". Guards are more of a 2nd-4th round position. Teams are looking for confirmation biases. Decastro did everything I expect an interior lineman to do. Glenn does provide insurance against Smith leaving. I just don't want to give Andre Smith a big payday. I read were he was like the 13th best statistical tackle in the league this season (Whitworth was like 5th). I worry that he will go back to being a slob if the carrot is taken away.

Agree with the Andre situation. One stellar season would set him up for a monster deal and I suspect that could be the end for him, might get one more decent season but I wouldn't expect more than that.

RiverRat13
02-26-2012, 08:50 AM
The thing I like about Glenn is he has the measurements to be a potential RT down the road if need be and I'm not sure Andre Smith will remain a Bengal when he comes a FA.

I think that's a great point and hopefully something the Bengals consider.

Mario-Rijo
02-28-2012, 03:58 PM
I think that's a great point and hopefully something the Bengals consider.

Also Bobby Massie in the 2nd ala Whitworth. Use him as a OG now and an OT in the future. Killing 2 birds with one stone is wise way to go.

RiverRat13
02-29-2012, 07:56 AM
Also Bobby Massie in the 2nd ala Whitworth. Use him as a OG now and an OT in the future. Killing 2 birds with one stone is wise way to go.

I do think it is a wise strategy. I'd make Andre prove he's legit a second year and a Glenn and/or Massie as a backup plan is a wise strategy. If Andre does well, you can always franchise him for a year and then work out something longer term. I'm just afraid Mikey uses this offseason to give fat contracts to guys like Smith who haven't totally proven themselves (like Gathers a few years ago) instead of using money at a few key spots in free agency.

texasdave
03-01-2012, 12:03 PM
Jerome Simpson pleads guilty. Could get up to 60 days in the hole.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Cincinnati-Bengals-Jerome-Simpson-guilty-plea-felony-drug-charge-030112

Benihana
03-02-2012, 02:37 PM
Not going to happen. I'll bet you on it. Specifically with Rice.

Further affirmation:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/ray-rice-isnt-going-anywhere/

sonny
03-02-2012, 08:18 PM
Bengals use franchise tag on Nugent. Championship!

Dom Heffner
03-03-2012, 07:18 PM
Trading up?

Nice move.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/sports/2012/03/01/report-bengals-may-trade-up-draft-richardson/?odyssey=obnetwork

KoryMac5
03-03-2012, 08:23 PM
All reports have Tampa taking Richardson as they absolutely love him, however things could change between now and the draft. I would imagine things will heat up if the Cards are on the clock and Richardson is still there.

As far as tagging Nugent I have no problem with it. I'd rather tag him then Nelson who is average at best at the safety position, no use paying him top 5 money when he isn't top 5 talent. I'd rather pay money to Landry.

Why do I have the feeling with 60 million the Bengals will sit on their hands with Nate Livings as the only signing.

Dan
03-05-2012, 08:14 AM
Trading up?

Nice move.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/sports/2012/03/01/report-bengals-may-trade-up-draft-richardson/?odyssey=obnetwork

Not a fan of that move. If Richardson falls to them at 17, they should, as I read elsewhere, make light speed to the podium. But there is enough running back talent that I'd rather see them draft a solid OG and a lesser RB than trade the opportunity to improve the line in lieu of a running back that is going to need that line.

Actually, if Richardson fell to them at 17, what I wouldn't mind seeing is them trade down and get both of New England's First round picks as well as one of their second rounders. Then with the five picks in the first two rounds draft CB, DL, OG, OG, RB in no particular order.

Sea Ray
03-05-2012, 09:53 AM
Not a fan of that move. If Richardson falls to them at 17, they should, as I read elsewhere, make light speed to the podium. But there is enough running back talent that I'd rather see them draft a solid OG and a lesser RB than trade the opportunity to improve the line in lieu of a running back that is going to need that line.

Actually, if Richardson fell to them at 17, what I wouldn't mind seeing is them trade down and get both of New England's First round picks as well as one of their second rounders. Then with the five picks in the first two rounds draft CB, DL, OG, OG, RB in no particular order.

The only problem there is that NE has to offer you that much and I don't see that happening

Ohayou
03-05-2012, 06:14 PM
Lewis/Gruden seem to be really high on Pead.

sonny
03-13-2012, 08:54 PM
A little surprised the Bengals haven't signed anyone yet in FA. even a second- tier player would send a message.

Joseph
03-14-2012, 12:40 PM
A little surprised the Bengals haven't signed anyone yet in FA. even a second- tier player would send a message.

Are you really surprised? This is the Bengals after all.

blumj
03-14-2012, 02:35 PM
I heard on the radio they're talking to BenJarvus Green-Ellis.

Stray
03-14-2012, 02:41 PM
I'm not a big fan of going big in free agency. The desperate teams are overpaying early on and getting the biggest names available.

From what I've heard we'll have Green-Ellis and Michael Bush visiting soon, and maybe that Newman CB from Dallas. I'd like Newman for depth and a reunion with Zimmer, and of those two backs I'd rather have Bush.

Boss-Hog
03-14-2012, 03:25 PM
Aaron Ross is also reportedly visiting. I'd rather have him than Newman and Bush over Green-Ellis (though the former's YPC drop concerns me).

hebroncougar
03-14-2012, 03:27 PM
Bengals have reportedly lost Jonathon Fanene and Frostee Rucker to the Pats and Browns.

The Operator
03-14-2012, 03:46 PM
What's the situation with Matt Forte? I know his contract situation was talked about a lot during the season and I'd love to see The Bengals make a run at him.

Do The Bears still have the ability to franchise him?

Ohayou
03-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Bengals have reportedly lost Jonathon Fanene and Frostee Rucker to the Pats and Browns.

The Bengals boards are blowing up. It's hilarious.

Anyways, Kendall Langford is visiting tomorrow.

bucksfan2
03-14-2012, 04:11 PM
Bengals have reportedly lost Jonathon Fanene and Frostee Rucker to the Pats and Browns.

Nice players, guys who do well when played the right amount, but two guys I am not going to lose sleep over.

nmculbreth
03-14-2012, 04:16 PM
It's kind of disconcerting that with as much cap room as the Bengals have that they seemingly haven't reached out to some of the bigger name free agents. Carl Nicks would have been a great fit, he's relatively young and would have seemingly allowed the club to use their first rounder picks to address other needs.

hebroncougar
03-14-2012, 04:40 PM
Nice players, guys who do well when played the right amount, but two guys I am not going to lose sleep over.

I won't miss Rucker. I thought Fanane was great.

KoryMac5
03-14-2012, 06:25 PM
I won't miss Rucker. I thought Fanane was great.

Yeah Reedy tweeted that Zimmer was steamed the Bengals didn't resign him especially when he did not want to leave. Rucker was more of a plug and play guy that can be replaced through the draft easily.

Bengals said the plan was to keep their guys and to try and see how the market shakes out for mid tier free agents. So far I am pretty disappointed with this offseason as they really haven't made a move to keep anyone other than special teamers and a long snapper. However I have grown used to it over the last 30 yrs.

Don't know how Brown plans to put fans in the seats operating like this. If he doesn't get the message after last season he never will. Even Buffalo is trying to make a splash.

Oxilon
03-14-2012, 07:05 PM
So what's Brown trying to achieve here? Next year, he has to spend to the cap. So what's he going to do, resign all these young players to extensions and than sign some second-tier free agents to over inflated contracts?

Look, I'm not claiming to be an expert on NFL contracts. And I don't want the Bengals to be the Redskins and "win" every March. But I just can't help to think Brown is completely over his head again here. He's always been a bargain shopper. But, especially with the new CBA, those days are over. And not to mention, the talent he'll eventually bring in won't be as good as the talent that it's replacing.

LoganBuck
03-15-2012, 07:50 AM
Seriously the twitterverse of Bengals fans was all honked off yesterday over Fanane and Rucker. Both are solid, but average. In baseball terms they are Joe Randas. There are other players that are actually better out there. They have an entire draft coming up with 9 picks. They will be ok.

As for the handwringing over Nelson, he is also a dead average safety. Now I know that the position has been such a blackhole for the last decade that average looks good, but seriously how many times did you have to see Nelson out of position on runs, and passes, costing the Bengals D huge gains. Yes bring him back if you can, but lets not pretend that he was some All pro level player. He was just to the right of the middle of the safety play bell curve.

Gotta remember that in January and February, that the Bengals will need cap space to give huge extensions to Dalton, Green, Atkins, and Gresham. Those players will take up huge chunks. They are being relatively paid peanuts right now. Quick make a list of more valuable receivers in the league than AJ Green. The list is Megatron, Larry Fitzgerald, and ???. Those two above Green are being paid $120 million dollar deals.

Gotta lock the kids up.

hebroncougar
03-15-2012, 08:00 AM
Seriously the twitterverse of Bengals fans was all honked off yesterday over Fanane and Rucker. Both are solid, but average. In baseball terms they are Joe Randas. There are other players that are actually better out there. They have an entire draft coming up with 9 picks. They will be ok.

As for the handwringing over Nelson, he is also a dead average safety. Now I know that the position has been such a blackhole for the last decade that average looks good, but seriously how many times did you have to see Nelson out of position on runs, and passes, costing the Bengals D huge gains. Yes bring him back if you can, but lets not pretend that he was some All pro level player. He was just to the right of the middle of the safety play bell curve.

Gotta remember that in January and February, that the Bengals will need cap space to give huge extensions to Dalton, Green, Atkins, and Gresham. Those players will take up huge chunks. They are being relatively paid peanuts right now. Quick make a list of more valuable receivers in the league than AJ Green. The list is Megatron, Larry Fitzgerald, and ???. Those two above Green are being paid $120 million dollar deals.

Gotta lock the kids up.

Green and Dalton are locked up through 2015. They are cheap. What am I missing? Now would be the time to spend money, while they ARE cheap. Gresham is signed through 2014, Atkins through 2013. None of them can go anywhere for 2 years, minimum.

bucksfan2
03-15-2012, 08:44 AM
So what's Brown trying to achieve here? Next year, he has to spend to the cap. So what's he going to do, resign all these young players to extensions and than sign some second-tier free agents to over inflated contracts?

Look, I'm not claiming to be an expert on NFL contracts. And I don't want the Bengals to be the Redskins and "win" every March. But I just can't help to think Brown is completely over his head again here. He's always been a bargain shopper. But, especially with the new CBA, those days are over. And not to mention, the talent he'll eventually bring in won't be as good as the talent that it's replacing.

There was an article a number of years ago about the impact of the top free agents in NFL history. The list was short and the impact of a lot of the major guys in free agency is kinda meh. Most of the teams keep their good and great players locked up until their productive days are ending. It may change with rookie contracts being only 4 years now but I don't see that happening as much.

I wanted to Bengals to make a run at Vincent Jackson, but not at what he signed for. The key would be to getting a true #2 WR and sign Green longterm. Most teams have been successful building via the draft and even with trades. Free Agency has been fools gold.

LoganBuck
03-15-2012, 08:47 AM
Green and Dalton are locked up through 2015. They are cheap. What am I missing? Now would be the time to spend money, while they ARE cheap. Gresham is signed through 2014, Atkins through 2013. None of them can go anywhere for 2 years, minimum.

I am talking cap friendly extensions. Atkins and Dunlap will be $60 million each. Gresham and Dalton as well. Green is a huge contract. Use the cap space after the season, before the 2013 league year begins, on the bonuses.

LoganBuck
03-15-2012, 09:18 AM
delete my phone made a double post

Benihana
03-15-2012, 10:50 AM
There was an article a number of years ago about the impact of the top free agents in NFL history. The list was short and the impact of a lot of the major guys in free agency is kinda meh. Most of the teams keep their good and great players locked up until their productive days are ending. It may change with rookie contracts being only 4 years now but I don't see that happening as much.

I wanted to Bengals to make a run at Vincent Jackson, but not at what he signed for. The key would be to getting a true #2 WR and sign Green longterm. Most teams have been successful building via the draft and even with trades. Free Agency has been fools gold.

The problem with the Bengals is that they're not even keeping their own players!

Jonathan Joseph, Jonathan Fanene, Frostee Rucker, maybe Reggie Nelson

They have too many holes to compete next year, and their failings this week are forcing them to have a perfect draft in order to even have a chance at an 8-8 season. Seriously, they need a RB, a WR, two OG, a CB, a S, and maybe a MLB, not to mention more DL depth now. Even if they hit perfectly, they can only get three of those in the first two rounds.

Look at next year's schedule: Of course it is WAY too early to tell because we don't know what these teams will look like in September, but if I had to call it right now, I can envision home wins against Cleveland, Oakland, Miami and maybe Dallas. Road wins against Cleveland, Jacksonville, and maybe Washington. That sets us up for 6-10 or 7-9, probably at best...

...UNLESS they can shock the world and sign some combination (ie more than one) of Michael Bush, Brandon Lloyd, Mario Manningham and/or LaRon Landry. Drafting Trent Richardson wouldn't hurt either, but he'll likely be gone by 17. Nicks or Grubbs would have been huge but they are gone now, meaning we HAVE to spend one of the first round picks on either DeCastro or Glenn. If Nelson leaves and we don't sign Landry, we'll likely have to take Mark Barron if he's there as well. That leaves big holes at RB and WR (and CB) that need to be filled in FA...now!!

That said, I have NO interest in BenJarvus Green-Ellis. He is a downgrade from Benson. They must get Bush or Richardson. I'd happily take both.

bucksfan2
03-15-2012, 01:14 PM
The problem with the Bengals is that they're not even keeping their own players!

Jonathan Joseph, Jonathan Fanene, Frostee Rucker, maybe Reggie Nelson

They have too many holes to compete next year, and their failings this week are forcing them to have a perfect draft in order to even have a chance at an 8-8 season. Seriously, they need a RB, a WR, two OG, a CB, a S, and maybe a MLB, not to mention more DL depth now. Even if they hit perfectly, they can only get three of those in the first two rounds.

Look at next year's schedule: Of course it is WAY too early to tell because we don't know what these teams will look like in September, but if I had to call it right now, I can envision home wins against Cleveland, Oakland, Miami and maybe Dallas. Road wins against Cleveland, Jacksonville, and maybe Washington. That sets us up for 6-10 or 7-9, probably at best...

...UNLESS they can shock the world and sign some combination (ie more than one) of Michael Bush, Brandon Lloyd, Mario Manningham and/or LaRon Landry. Drafting Trent Richardson wouldn't hurt either, but he'll likely be gone by 17. Nicks or Grubbs would have been huge but they are gone now, meaning we HAVE to spend one of the first round picks on either DeCastro or Glenn. If Nelson leaves and we don't sign Landry, we'll likely have to take Mark Barron if he's there as well. That leaves big holes at RB and WR (and CB) that need to be filled in FA...now!!

That said, I have NO interest in BenJarvus Green-Ellis. He is a downgrade from Benson. They must get Bush or Richardson. I'd happily take both.

Joseph is the only guy I am upset they weren't able to keep. But it was evident when they signed Hall to the extension Joseph was going to test the FA market.

Reggie Nelson is a starter but if he really didn't wow me last year. Solid, but replaceable, espeically if they are planning to move Clemmens to S. Fanene and Rucker are depth, something you should be able to replace. The last thing you want to do is pay them starting money.

I am not going to get upset about losing Fanene or Rucker as long as they make moves in free agency to address their needs.

Benihana
03-15-2012, 01:43 PM
Joseph is the only guy I am upset they weren't able to keep. But it was evident when they signed Hall to the extension Joseph was going to test the FA market.

Reggie Nelson is a starter but if he really didn't wow me last year. Solid, but replaceable, espeically if they are planning to move Clemmens to S. Fanene and Rucker are depth, something you should be able to replace. The last thing you want to do is pay them starting money.

I am not going to get upset about losing Fanene or Rucker as long as they make moves in free agency to address their needs.

The D-line was the biggest strength on the team last year. This was because of the depth. Other teams can't rotate guys in because their depth isn't nearly as strong. That's gone now. Clearly not as big of a hit as losing JJ, but a hit nonetheless- especially when there is NOTHING being brought in.

Nicks, Grubbs, V-Jax, Colston, all gone.
Lloyd, Manningham, Landry, probably not far behind.

Signing Bush would be a start, but there are still way too many holes to even think about the playoffs next year.

LoganBuck
03-15-2012, 02:06 PM
The D-line was the biggest strength on the team last year. This was because of the depth. Other teams can't rotate guys in because their depth isn't nearly as strong. That's gone now. Clearly not as big of a hit as losing JJ, but a hit nonetheless- especially when there is NOTHING being brought in.

Nicks, Grubbs, V-Jax, Colston, all gone.
Lloyd, Manningham, Landry, probably not far behind.

Signing Bush would be a start, but there are still way too many holes to even think about the playoffs next year.

I just don't get too excited about roster filler. Yes they were quality depth, but that is what they were, depth. Depth can be replenished. Quality teams build through the draft, and by retaining priority players. It is pretty obvious that the Bengals didn't value those players as more than average. Lets say they sign Bush, Ross, Langford, and maybe Steinbach, wouldn't you think that is a net gain? Reggie Nelson will not break the bank anywhere, so unless he wants out of the organization(possible) the Bengals will have an opportunity to beat any offers.

Sure I would like to see them making deals already, but outside of Grubbs, Nicks, and Mario Williams I haven't seen a player that would have been a major upgrade go elsewhere.

Benihana
03-15-2012, 03:53 PM
I just don't get too excited about roster filler. Yes they were quality depth, but that is what they were, depth. Depth can be replenished. Quality teams build through the draft, and by retaining priority players. It is pretty obvious that the Bengals didn't value those players as more than average. Lets say they sign Bush, Ross, Langford, and maybe Steinbach, wouldn't you think that is a net gain? Reggie Nelson will not break the bank anywhere, so unless he wants out of the organization(possible) the Bengals will have an opportunity to beat any offers.

Sure I would like to see them making deals already, but outside of Grubbs, Nicks, and Mario Williams I haven't seen a player that would have been a major upgrade go elsewhere.

"Quality teams build through the draft and retain priority players."

How was Jonathan Joseph not a quality player or a priority last year?

In addition to the three FA you mentioned (Grubbs, Nicks, Williams) basically any WR on the market would be an upgrade- including the still unsigned Lloyd and Manningham and the now off-the-market V-Jax, Colston and Meachem.

Bush would be good but the other guys you mentioned are exactly what you say you are not excited by- roster filler. Ross, Langford, and Steinbach at this point in his career are no better than what we had last year. We could get similar players after the first day of the draft. Bengals need IMPACT.

Ohayou
03-18-2012, 12:37 PM
Jason Allen to the Bengals: 2 years/$8.2 mil. Reggie Nelson is also expected to make a decision by today.

LoganBuck
03-18-2012, 06:43 PM
Reggie Nelson returns per @adamscheffter

Mario-Rijo
03-19-2012, 08:44 AM
And it's not listed here but they also signed Travelle Wharton OG to a deal prior to Allen.


My thinking on the the Bengals this past week is I believe I know what they are thinking and I don't like the idea. The main issue here being they have to have the minimum cap filled by a certain date next year. The 5 core players that may require extensions at some point prior to the end of 2013/2014 all still have multiple seasons left on their deals (Dunlap, Atkins, Green, Dalton, Gresham). Why throw all that cheap production away and also end up having to pay them a 3rd contract further down the road potentially? Sure I'm all for signing guys a year prior to their FA year and depending on the guy/circumstances possibly a year sooner than that. But only 2 of those 5 qualify for that in my mind next season and that's if they continue to do well. There is still alot of uncertainty with most if not all 5 also and not necessarily no brainers to sign to LTC's.

I didn't expect them to go all crazy but OG was a glaring need and although Nicks contract demands were a bit ludicrous Ben Grubbs should have been a full court press. Instead they settle for not only mediocre Travelle Wharton but a 31 year old mediocre Wharton, Chilo Rachal would have made alot more sense and they didn't even bring him in for a visit. Neither are great pass blockers but at least Rachal is 25 years old and a much superior run blocker to Wharton who is good but not great, Rachal is a great run blocker perhaps the best in football. Something more needed to be done here.

Mario-Rijo
03-19-2012, 08:52 AM
Reggie Nelson returns per @adamscheffter


The Bengals made the AFC North's biggest move in free agency so far, re-signing safety Reggie Nelson, according to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

Why is it so big? Cincinnati pointed to Nelson as its top priority in free agency and didn't lose him in a battle with the New York Jets. The Bengals also kept Nelson at a time when it would be hard to replace him (the safety position is weak in free agency and the draft) and didn't let him leave like cornerback Johnathan Joseph a year ago.

ESPN Link (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/55580/bengals-make-big-move-in-keeping-nelson)

LoganBuck
03-19-2012, 09:03 AM
And it's not listed here but they also signed Travelle Wharton OG to a deal prior to Allen.


My thinking on the the Bengals this past week is I believe I know what they are thinking and I don't like the idea. The main issue here being they have to have the minimum cap filled by a certain date next year. The 5 core players that may require extensions at some point prior to the end of 2013/2014 all still have multiple seasons left on their deals (Dunlap, Atkins, Green, Dalton, Gresham). Why throw all that cheap production away and also end up having to pay them a 3rd contract further down the road potentially? Sure I'm all for signing guys a year prior to their FA year and depending on the guy/circumstances possibly a year sooner than that. But only 2 of those 5 qualify for that in my mind next season and that's if they continue to do well. There is still alot of uncertainty with most if not all 5 also and not necessarily no brainers to sign to LTC's.

I didn't expect them to go all crazy but OG was a glaring need and although Nicks contract demands were a bit ludicrous Ben Grubbs should have been a full court press. Instead they settle for not only mediocre Travelle Wharton but a 31 year old mediocre Wharton, Chilo Rachal would have made alot more sense and they didn't even bring him in for a visit. Neither are great pass blockers but at least Rachal is 25 years old and a much superior run blocker to Wharton who is good but not great, Rachal is a great run blocker perhaps the best in football. Something more needed to be done here.

I think Wharton is a short term hedge on Clint Boling.

bucksfan2
03-19-2012, 09:07 AM
The problem I have with free agency in the NFL is people make a big too do out of it but the reality is its impact isn't nearly as much. The Bengals let two underachieving guards go who all of a sudden became in demand free agents. In the NFL you don't build through free agency, you build through the draft. If the Bengals are intent on picking a Guard in the draft who they think can slide right in I have no problem with the way they are acting in free agency in regards to the OL.

I don't really know what to think about Reggie Nelson. He was a solid safety, nothing spectacular as a Bengal. Its nice getting him back because he has been in the system for a number of years. But he isn't a difference maker in the back 7 that the Bengals sorely need. Don't know enough about Jason Allen, but if he is a solid corner he will help the Bengals out. They still will need to take a DB with one of their first 3 picks, but it may just give them a little more flexibility in the draft.

If they sign Michael Bush I will consider it a very good offseasn for the Bengals. If you go back all the way to Carson Palmer IMO the Bengals have done well in FA. An extra draft choice, retained their #1 priority, and haven't lost a key contributor to the team.

bucksfan2
03-19-2012, 09:08 AM
DP

Mario-Rijo
03-19-2012, 03:20 PM
I think Wharton is a short term hedge on Clint Boling.

Could be, and I liked the pick in the draft mostly due to the fact they hadn't taken one before him and he was the last one I felt had a chance to be a good guard. Although in reading his scouting reports one could come to the conclusion he may never work out, he doesn't naturally knee bend/anchor and sometimes those guys cannot seem to change it, at least not enough to start. He profiles as a good backup. Otis Hudson OTOH might be the answer there I still believe he has all the natural talent to play it.


The problem I have with free agency in the NFL is people make a big too do out of it but the reality is its impact isn't nearly as much. The Bengals let two underachieving guards go who all of a sudden became in demand free agents. In the NFL you don't build through free agency, you build through the draft. If the Bengals are intent on picking a Guard in the draft who they think can slide right in I have no problem with the way they are acting in free agency in regards to the OL.

I don't really know what to think about Reggie Nelson. He was a solid safety, nothing spectacular as a Bengal. Its nice getting him back because he has been in the system for a number of years. But he isn't a difference maker in the back 7 that the Bengals sorely need. Don't know enough about Jason Allen, but if he is a solid corner he will help the Bengals out. They still will need to take a DB with one of their first 3 picks, but it may just give them a little more flexibility in the draft.

If they sign Michael Bush I will consider it a very good offseasn for the Bengals. If you go back all the way to Carson Palmer IMO the Bengals have done well in FA. An extra draft choice, retained their #1 priority, and haven't lost a key contributor to the team.

60 million and a QB who needs all the space he can (ala Brees) to remain productive, don't take shortcuts at the OL or you end up getting your QB smashed too much ala Palmer. They needed 2 guards coming in and they have 60 million and go get a guy who was cut just days ago. He's probably an upgrade but geez why be so dang cheap all the stinking time.

Yachtzee
03-19-2012, 05:57 PM
The Free Agency Season in the NFL cracks me up. So much drama from fans and experts giving us "winners" and "losers." Of course no one really knows whether FA signings are good or bad until at least the next season plays out. For the draft, it's even longer, at least 3 years. Free Agency in the NFL has a much smaller impact on teams than in other sports. It's not like the NBA or MLB, where you can pick up one or two guys who can greatly increase your chances of winning more games. At best, you get a key role player. At worst, you blow a bunch of cap space on a non-entity.

However, that's what I like about the NFL. Teams can afford to keep players at positions essential to winning, like quarterback, while letting less essential players go via free agency. Imagine if more MLB teams could afford to keep the ace pitcher or offensive all-star instead of having to worry about trading them before their contract is up just so they can get some kind of return for them.

Newport Red
03-21-2012, 01:03 PM
Crocker happy to see dirty Ward retire.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cincinnati-bengals-chris-crocker-happy-to-see-dirty-hines-ward-in-retirement-032112

KoryMac5
03-21-2012, 03:11 PM
Looks like the Bengals will land the Law Firm. Talks have been ongoing all day with a number of tweets out there.


Joe Goodberry ‏ @JoeGoodberry Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
#Bengals RT @Mary_Paoletti: Source: BenJarvus Green-Ellis likely to be a Cincinnati Bengal quite soon. #nfl #patriots

wolfboy
03-21-2012, 03:39 PM
Looks like the Bengals will land the Law Firm. Talks have been ongoing all day with a number of tweets out there.

Joe Goodberry ‏ @JoeGoodberry Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
#Bengals RT @Mary_Paoletti: Source: BenJarvus Green-Ellis likely to be a Cincinnati Bengal quite soon. #nfl #patriots

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7719008/benjarvus-green-ellis-bolts-new-england-patriots-cincinnati-bengals-source-says

Dom Heffner
03-21-2012, 07:34 PM
Green-Ellis...ugh.

blumj
03-21-2012, 08:16 PM
I think you guys are going to like him more than you expect. He's extremely reliable in short yardage, always goes forward, almost always gets the 1st or into the end zone, and literally never fumbles. You need others to do the flashy stuff, but he's as close to perfect at the ordinary stuff as you can expect.

Ohayou
03-21-2012, 08:49 PM
This will open the door to draft a speedster like Wilson, Miller or Pead in the early rounds if they're truly intent on shifting towards a RBBC system.

BGE at least doesn't fumble (fist pump) and he gets into the end zone regularly, something the Bengals obviously haven't done well. Honestly, I would have taken anyone over Benson at this point, so I can't complain.

Sea Ray
03-21-2012, 09:19 PM
Green-Ellis...ugh.

He's not the full answer. We still need a nice back in the draft. He's just one small piece

CTA513
03-22-2012, 12:11 AM
I think you guys are going to like him more than you expect. He's extremely reliable in short yardage, always goes forward, almost always gets the 1st or into the end zone, and literally never fumbles. You need others to do the flashy stuff, but he's as close to perfect at the ordinary stuff as you can expect.

It won't take much for him to be an upgrade over what they had the last 3 or so years.

I know many fans will be happy they don't have to hear Benson complaining about carries anymore.

Dom Heffner
03-22-2012, 06:32 AM
bJGE finds the end zone because Brady gets him in a position to be there.

Maybe I'm wrong, but he doesn't seem to be any sort of answer.

medford
03-22-2012, 09:23 AM
I don't think there was the "complete" package running back in free agency, a guy who you can put back there for 20-25 carries a game and count on racking up 80-100+ yards each time out. The league is moving away from that model anyways, with a few exceptions, I would assume he's a decent blocking back in passing situations, meaning you can draft a rookie in round 2 or 3, let them work into 1st & 2nd down carries, and let BJGE handle 3rd down duties with a steady mix of 1st & 2nd down situations.

schmidty622
03-22-2012, 10:28 AM
Using a little tool I have for fantasy football (nothing special or sophisticated, just something I have fun with) I look at what Green-Ellis actual stats have been in his career and plug in the touches we might expect him to get as the lead back in our system. Here is what the tool spat out;


Year YDS TD Rec REC YDS REC TD Carries Targets
2008 275 5 3 37 0 74 6
2009 114 0 2 11 0 26 5
2010 1008 13 12 85 0 229 16
2011 667 11 9 159 0 181 13


Projected;


2012 972 14 22 228 0 235 27


I went with 235 carries because I expect there to be more of a time split between backs this year, with the offense moving more to a west coast scheme. 27 targets because over the last four years the Bengals have thrown to their lead back an average 27.5 times.

I think we have a nice little back here. The touchdown projections are probably high, since he is not going to be playing in such a high scoring offense, but I don't see why those other stats aren't obtainable.

Also, I would argue that you can't really say that Green-Ellis can't be a factor in the receiving game. He just simply hasn't been given the targets other backs get.

If we get a complemtary back (not sold on Scott) in the draft, I think we could put a backfield together that is similar to what other west coast teams strive for.

RiverRat13
03-22-2012, 11:25 AM
"An underrated running back, ‘Law Firm’ will now get a chance to show he can be a bigger part of an offense if this proves to be the case. He finished 2011 with our 8th highest grade for running. We like this move for all parties."

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/21/pff-live-free-agency-reaction-blog-day-9-032112/

Stray
03-22-2012, 11:46 AM
I like the move, more than I would have liked getting Michael Bush. He's reliable in so many ways. Ball security, short yardage, pass protection, and off of the field. I think he's gonna fit in well. I'd love to see us get more of a homerun threat in the draft, and like I've been saying for ages I hope that guy is Isaiah Pead, but regardless we're a better team right now than we were yesterday.

Benson did a lot of good things for us, but he was far from reliable. Fumbles, suspensions, and short yardage plays were problems with him.

bucksfan2
03-22-2012, 01:22 PM
I like the move, more than I would have liked getting Michael Bush. He's reliable in so many ways. Ball security, short yardage, pass protection, and off of the field. I think he's gonna fit in well. I'd love to see us get more of a homerun threat in the draft, and like I've been saying for ages I hope that guy is Isaiah Pead, but regardless we're a better team right now than we were yesterday.

Benson did a lot of good things for us, but he was far from reliable. Fumbles, suspensions, and short yardage plays were problems with him.

Benson was a pretty reliable back for a couple of years in Cincy. He was a hard nosed runner that took a pounding year in year out. The problem was he started to get suspended, break down, fumble, and become a malcontent last season.

LoganBuck
03-22-2012, 04:03 PM
People keep missing the other name, that the Bengals have actually been tied to. So many UC fans keep wishing for Pead, and the Bengals have been tied to him, but there has been another guy mentioned. Marvin Lewis and Crew have been keeping tabs on LaMichael James. There is your explosive guy, who is a good receiver, who they can move around to exploit the defense. Sign me up for James way before the line begins for Pead.

The DARK
03-22-2012, 05:20 PM
People keep missing the other name, that the Bengals have actually been tied to. So many UC fans keep wishing for Pead, and the Bengals have been tied to him, but there has been another guy mentioned. Marvin Lewis and Crew have been keeping tabs on LaMichael James. There is your explosive guy, who is a good receiver, who they can move around to exploit the defense. Sign me up for James way before the line begins for Pead.

I'd be all over that, especially considering how his stock has fallen compared to Polk and Miller. He could complement Green-Ellis quite well; BJGE could handle runs between the tackles, blocking, and red zone duties, while James could break big runs in space, compete in the return game, and be a dangerous receiving option. IMO, that's worth our second round pick. Pick up Glenn/Decastro in the first round to fill out the line and a receiver to replace Simpson, and you have a real offense on your hands.

Benihana
03-22-2012, 09:46 PM
I'd be all over that, especially considering how his stock has fallen compared to Polk and Miller. He could complement Green-Ellis quite well; BJGE could handle runs between the tackles, blocking, and red zone duties, while James could break big runs in space, compete in the return game, and be a dangerous receiving option. IMO, that's worth our second round pick. Pick up Glenn/Decastro in the first round to fill out the line and a receiver to replace Simpson, and you have a real offense on your hands.

I like it

LoganBuck
03-22-2012, 10:25 PM
I'd be all over that, especially considering how his stock has fallen compared to Polk and Miller. He could complement Green-Ellis quite well; BJGE could handle runs between the tackles, blocking, and red zone duties, while James could break big runs in space, compete in the return game, and be a dangerous receiving option. IMO, that's worth our second round pick. Pick up Glenn/Decastro in the first round to fill out the line and a receiver to replace Simpson, and you have a real offense on your hands.

Heck pick Simpson back up on the cheap, with Caldwell gone, there is room.

LoganBuck
03-22-2012, 10:41 PM
Here is a some evidence on the LaMichael James thing

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/3/15/2876405/2012-nfl-draft-marvin-lewis-in-attendance-at-university-of-oregon-pro

Mario-Rijo
03-23-2012, 02:35 PM
Here is a some evidence on the LaMichael James thing

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/3/15/2876405/2012-nfl-draft-marvin-lewis-in-attendance-at-university-of-oregon-pro

Think I'd rather have Pead. Better fit, just as good Speed Score and without all the baggage. Check out this piece originally from FO, it's a very good read and seems to do a pretty good job of predicting future success at the NFL level.

Bengals forum link (http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?p=2402383#post2402383)


At Football Outsiders, we're not really interested in a bunch of numbers if they don't mean anything. So we did some research to figure out which combine performances really matter. No combine figure is ever going to be a foolproof indicator, but we have found that some drills are worth paying attention to at certain positions. For running backs, that drill is the 40-yard dash. Bill Barnwell, the former FO writer who now writes for Grantland, took the 40, adjusted it based on player weight and came up with a metric that has a surprising level of relevance: Speed Score.

On its own, 40 time correlates with future success less than some fans might expect. But not all 40 times are created equal because not every player is running with the same body. When a 225-pound player runs a 4.48 40-yard dash, it's a lot more impressive than that same 40 time from player who weighs 185 pounds. On top of that, the range of 40 times for running backs is so small (from about 4.2 seconds to 4.9 seconds) that even a minuscule difference can be valuable. Times of 4.41 and 4.51 might look roughly similar, but, in the NFL, holes can close up just that quickly.

Adjust for those factors and you get the formula for Speed Score: (weight * 200)/40 time^4. Multiplying the player's weight by 200 conveniently scales the metric so that an average Speed Score is right around 100. The average first-round pick approaches a Speed Score of 112.

L. Miller - 212 pounds, 4.4 flat combine 40 - Speed Score 113.1 (Best speed score this season although T. Richardson didn't run)
L. James - 194 pounds, 4.45 - 98.9
I. Pead - 197 pounds, 4.47 - 98.7

sonny
03-23-2012, 03:41 PM
The Bengals just signed two scouts. Did Mike Brown die?

RiverRat13
03-23-2012, 06:51 PM
Jamaal Anderson, Derrick Harvey, Pac-Man and Anthony Collins all signed today. Excellent moves for depth. Re-sign Pat Sims and I think they can wait until the 4th to draft a DT unless someone just falls to them.

Still need RG, WR2, CB, and a back to go with BJGE. I'm guessing those positions are where they go in the first three rounds.

WMR
03-23-2012, 06:54 PM
I was sort of hoping the Pac Man era was over.

RiverRat13
03-23-2012, 07:01 PM
I was sort of hoping the Pac Man era was over.

Still could be. I think they'll still take a corner early. Then it would most likely be Jones v Ghee for final spot as long as Hall is healthy.

Ohayou
03-23-2012, 08:24 PM
The Bengals need all the quality depth they can get at corner. Bringing back Pac Man was the right thing to do.

CTA513
03-23-2012, 08:29 PM
3 year deal with a base value of $9 million for Green-Ellis according to PFT

redsfanmia
03-23-2012, 08:37 PM
3 year deal with a base value of $9 million for Green-Ellis according to PFT

Solid back and a good pick up, plus i will always root for a former Hoosier footballer.

Mario-Rijo
03-23-2012, 09:27 PM
Think I'd rather have Pead. Better fit, just as good Speed Score and without all the baggage. Check out this piece originally from FO, it's a very good read and seems to do a pretty good job of predicting future success at the NFL level.

Bengals forum link (http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?p=2402383#post2402383)



L. Miller - 212 pounds, 4.4 flat combine 40 - Speed Score 113.1 (Best speed score this season although T. Richardson didn't run)
L. James - 194 pounds, 4.45 - 98.9
I. Pead - 197 pounds, 4.47 - 98.7

All this stated I think the best value at RB in all the draft will be Robert Turbin in the 4th round (he could go in the 3rd though I suppose).

Mario-Rijo
03-23-2012, 09:58 PM
My ideal mock given who I think should be available. This includes re-signing the following.

OT Anthony Collins UFA Cincinnati Bengals (Supposedly re-signed haven't seen it reported officially anywhere yet)
LB Brandon Johnson UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
TE Donald Lee UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
LB Manny Lawson UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
WR Jerome Simpson UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
DL Pat Sims UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent

1A - Cordy Glenn OG/OT UGA
1B - Stephon Gilmore CB South Carolina
2nd - Harrison Barnes S N.D.
3rd - Robert Turbin RB Utah St.
4th - Vontaze Burfict ILB Arizona
5th - Keenan Robinson OLB Texas
5th - Akiem Hicks DT Canada (via LSU at one point)
6th - Adrien Robinson TE UC

Ohayou
03-23-2012, 10:01 PM
2nd - Harrison Barnes S N.D.


Nice one. :)

HotCorner
03-23-2012, 10:44 PM
OT Anthony Collins UFA Cincinnati Bengals (Supposedly re-signed haven't seen it reported officially anywhere yet)


From Bengals.com ...

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-add-depth-with-signings-/d0d0c4c3-6c10-4815-8764-4000f121a997



Updated: 8:15 p.m.
After landing three starters and a veteran third cornerback, the Bengals shifted their free-agency focus Friday with deals aimed at shoring up depth and opening up next month's NFL Draft.

They announced the re-signing of a pair of first-off-the-bench backups in cornerback Adam Jones and tackle Anthony Collins, as well as the addition of Broncos defensive end Derrick Harvey, and indications were they are pursuing re-signing defensive tackle Pat Sims. Also Friday, the Bengals agreed to terms with Colts defensive end Jamaal Anderson, the eighth pick of the Falcons in 2007 who visited last week after his career-high three-sack season in Indianapolis. An announcement of the deal could come Saturday.

Reds Fanatic
03-24-2012, 10:49 AM
Bengals have also re-signed Pat Sims today

CTA513
03-24-2012, 12:07 PM
Bengals have also re-signed Pat Sims today

Hes not a big name player, but you could tell the difference in the run defense after he got hurt and couldn't play.

LoganBuck
03-24-2012, 12:20 PM
Hes not a big name player, but you could tell the difference in the run defense after he got hurt and couldn't play.

Yep, he gets a effective push, and clogs things up enough. I don't think they have completely replenished the d line, but they are close. Factor in better health for Dunlap, they are probably better moving forward.

Ohayou
03-26-2012, 04:08 PM
Amobi Okoye is scheduled to visit after the owners' meetings. Another former 1st round pick... COINCIDENCE?!

bucksfan2
03-27-2012, 09:13 AM
Amobi Okoye is scheduled to visit after the owners' meetings. Another former 1st round pick... COINCIDENCE?!

I remember thinking at the time I would stay as far away from Okoye as possible in the 2007 draft. They guy was just a kid, graduating early and is only now 24 years old. It may be a very good signing because he may just be maturing into a NFL caliber football player. He was drafted at 19, the age when most 19 year olds are entering their Soph year in college.

Mario-Rijo
03-27-2012, 06:37 PM
Nice one. :)

I have no idea why I named him Barnes, it's Smith obviously.

Mario-Rijo
03-28-2012, 06:54 PM
Ahem...

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2544543&postcount=48

BTW, I would put CB fourth on the priority list.

Thought I'd put this here since it's more Bengals related. While I might agree it's not necessarily as high an immediate priority as OG or Safety perhaps even WR (I say nec. because it can go either way) there's great value in this area of the draft and if you are gonna draft a CB at all it's wise to do it in the 1st 2 rounds, the odds are much better for success at that position the earlier the pick. And you have to look at the position not just in the short term but also the long. Though an argument could be made for the short term as well. Hall's injury, and the fact we have only 1 corner with good top end speed (Allen) to cover downfield.

After '12 we have 2 corners under contract Leon Hall and Jason Allen and Halls injury brings some doubt as to whether or not he can rebound.

gonelong
03-30-2012, 01:56 PM
Manny Lawson signed for 1 year. I'm ok with that.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=sportsxchange-000626513_bengals-resign-lawson-to-reported-1year-deal

GL

Ohayou
04-03-2012, 10:44 PM
Assuming DeCastro is taken before 17, how would you rate this mock?

R1, 17 - Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
R1, 21 - David Wilson, RB, Virginia Tech
R2, 53 - Brandon Brooks, G, Miami (OH)
R3, 83 - Marvin Jones, WR, Cal
R4, 116 - Terrell Manning, LB, N.C. State
R5, 156 - Jae Howard, DT, Florida
R5, 166 - George Bryan, TE, N.C. State
R6, 191 - Scott Wedige, C, Northern Illinois

Note: If by some chance he does fall to us, I have Gilmore at 21, Brian Quick in the 2nd, and Isaiah Pead in the 3rd. Everything else remains the same.

CTA513
04-05-2012, 04:47 PM
15 days in jail and 3 years probation for Simpson

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/jerome-simpson-gets-15-days-in-jail/

:laugh:

Ohayou
04-05-2012, 11:00 PM
Wouldn't be too surprising to see the Bengals draft two WRs early.

Reds Fanatic
04-06-2012, 12:39 PM
Bengals have released Chris Crocker today


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?x5dp42

Mario-Rijo
04-06-2012, 06:59 PM
Bengals have released Chris Crocker today


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?x5dp42

And signed Jacob Bell OG via St. Louis


PER PFT
The Cincinnati Bengals continue to bring in new pieces to a team that was an unlikely playoff participant in 2011.

Per a league source, free-agent guard Jacob Bell has agreed to terms on a one-year deal.

Bell fills the roster spot that was created when Nate Livings left Cincinnati for Dallas in the early days of free agency.

Bell spent his first four NFL seasons with the Titans before joining the Rams as a free agent in 2008.

Mario-Rijo
04-06-2012, 07:26 PM
Assuming DeCastro is taken before 17, how would you rate this mock?

R1, 17 - Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
R1, 21 - David Wilson, RB, Virginia Tech
R2, 53 - Brandon Brooks, G, Miami (OH)
R3, 83 - Marvin Jones, WR, Cal
R4, 116 - Terrell Manning, LB, N.C. State
R5, 156 - Jae Howard, DT, Florida
R5, 166 - George Bryan, TE, N.C. State
R6, 191 - Scott Wedige, C, Northern Illinois

Note: If by some chance he does fall to us, I have Gilmore at 21, Brian Quick in the 2nd, and Isaiah Pead in the 3rd. Everything else remains the same.

I like Gilmore but I think Wilson is a reach at 21 and Brooks a slight reach in the 2nd the rest are ok but not ideal IMO.

Given the recent minor moves by the club (and the fact I expect some re-signings yet namely Lee, Simpson & Brandon Johnson) I am leaning more towards this:

#17 - Mark Barron - S - Bama
#21 - Stephon Gilmore - CB - S.C.
2nd - Kelechi Osemele - OG - Iowa State
3rd - Robert Turbin - RB - Utah State
4th - Michael Calvin - WR - Cal
5th - Keenan Robinson - OLB - Texas
5th - Loni Fangupo - DT - BYU
6th - Emil Igwenagu - FB - UMass

If Barron, DeCastro & Kuechly are all gone which is likely I go this route:

#17 - Stephon Gilmore - CB - S.C.
#21 - Cordy Glenn - OG/OT - UGA
2nd - Trumaine Johnson - S - Montana
3rd - Robert Turbin - RB - Utah State
4th - Michael Calvin - WR - Cal
5th - Keenan Robinson - OLB - Texas
5th - Loni Fangupo - DT - BYU
6th - Emil Igwenagu - FB - UMass

Mario-Rijo
04-06-2012, 07:34 PM
Draft sleepers:

NFL.com Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d82822ed8/article/draft-sleepers-noncombine-invitees-on-the-rise?module=HP11_content_stream)


Michael Calvin, WR, California (6-3, 210): Though he caught just 42 passes in four years, Calvin's overall workout would've made headlines had he done it on television at the combine: 4.34 40, 40 1/2-inch vertical, 11-1 broad jump, 4.09 short shuttle, 6.70 three-cone.

Tony Cloninger
04-06-2012, 10:15 PM
I like Gilmore but I think Wilson is a reach at 21 and Brooks a slight reach in the 2nd the rest are ok but not ideal IMO.

Given the recent minor moves by the club (and the fact I expect some re-signings yet namely Lee, Simpson & Brandon Johnson) I am leaning more towards this:

#17 - Mark Barron - S - Bama
#21 - Stephon Gilmore - CB - S.C.
2nd - Kelechi Osemele - OG - Iowa State
3rd - Robert Turbin - RB - Utah State
4th - Michael Calvin - WR - Cal
5th - Keenan Robinson - OLB - Texas
5th - Loni Fangupo - DT - BYU
6th - Emil Igwenagu - FB - UMass

If Barron, DeCastro & Kuechly are all gone which is likely I go this route:

#17 - Stephon Gilmore - CB - S.C.
#21 - Cordy Glenn - OG/OT - UGA
2nd - Trumaine Johnson - S - Montana
3rd - Robert Turbin - RB - Utah State
4th - Michael Calvin - WR - Cal
5th - Keenan Robinson - OLB - Texas
5th - Loni Fangupo - DT - BYU
6th - Emil Igwenagu - FB - UMass






You think they want Simpson back? This guy can still barely learn a playbook....even simplified and disappears in games.

Ohayou
04-06-2012, 10:16 PM
I think Wilson is a reach at 21

Any RB in the 1st not named Richardson will be a reach, I'm just higher on Wilson than most people. He won't be there in the 2nd, though, and neither will Miller.


Brooks a slight reach in the 2nd

That's where he's projected. He's the biggest, most powerful G in the entire draft. Of course you take him if he's there.


#17 - Mark Barron - S - Bama

I wouldn't mind this pick, but recent mocks have Barron gone before 17. Smith is the only other S I would bother looking at, but again he's another talent that likely won't be there in the 2nd, unless you trade up.


3rd - Robert Turbin - RB - Utah State

Lots of people seem to be high on Turbin, but he's already had two knee surgeries, he isn't very dynamic, and he runs a high 4. I'd rather draft for speed, but that's just me.


4th - Michael Calvin - WR - Cal

With Simpson/Caldwell both gone, and Shipley's health being a concern, I'm not sure I would wait that long to draft Green's counterpart.

Redhook
04-07-2012, 07:24 AM
I expect a WR and CB in the 1st round and a OG in the 2nd this year for the Bengals.

KoryMac5
04-07-2012, 12:49 PM
Crocker released after a nice run at safety, we could be looking at Mays starting next season or Barron in the 1st. Jacob Bell signed to back up at guard, hopefully.

Tony Cloninger
04-07-2012, 02:47 PM
If they try to pass up on DeCastro or Glenn and go for some developmental Guard...... it's going be the same BS again. I would not want Alexander developing anything to due with a Guard. The guy is the remaining stench from the early 90's and cannot develop OL really at all. For every Braham there are tons of others that he could not develop. He plays Boling at RG when he is more suited for LG. He would rather have "Big maulers"....as if that means they can actually run block. Mathis was better than what they had but Alexander wanted that mauler who blew and then Mathis goes to Philly and is graded a Top 5 Guard for last year.

He likes Roland but the guy is terrible and he cannot develop him or coach him up. Instead of letting Collins be at RT ...which is what he does best....he wants to move him around. He likes to move people around instead of just sticking to what they do best at the particular place on the OL. Center? Forget it.... they think that is where the fat kid goes to hike the ball in flag football. Gutcheck and now Cook... sure Cook is better but that is like saying Crocker was better than Dexter Jackson at Safety.

They have a chance with DD to get a Guard that you leave alone and let him lead the other side of the line. But no..... they need a WR, whom they could get in the 2nd at almost same value as a WR in the late 1st...... which you would not get in a Guard in the 2nd round in comparison to DeCastro.

Now if he is not there..... go with the best CB and then get Glenn in the 21st...... as he could even play RT if Smith decides to only play when he has a contract year, which I would not doubt.

Besides that all you have is developmental guys at Guard and Alexander is not a good coach.

Mario-Rijo
04-07-2012, 10:25 PM
You think they want Simpson back? This guy can still barely learn a playbook....even simplified and disappears in games.

Personally I would, I think they should heavily consider it. Whats the alternative? Floyd, Wright, someone who needs even more development time than Simpson does later in the draft? Is a rookie likely to out play Simpson next year? I doubt it. And even if they do can they keep it up beyond a rookie year? As the 2nd WR last year in his 1st year starting he had what was at one time a typical Darnay Scott type of year who was a decent #2 WR himself. He's still young, he's still has upside and although wasn't consistent he did produce I think it would be a wise move to bring him back for at least one more season.

Mario-Rijo
04-07-2012, 11:08 PM
Any RB in the 1st not named Richardson will be a reach, I'm just higher on Wilson than most people. He won't be there in the 2nd, though, and neither will Miller.


Lots of people seem to be high on Turbin, but he's already had two knee surgeries, he isn't very dynamic, and he runs a high 4. I'd rather draft for speed, but that's just me.

I understand why you'd want a home run hitter but Wilson has some pretty serious ball security issues. That's an issue coaches & F.O. types don't just overlook. I don't think it's a given he's taken before we pick in the 2nd. Miller probably will go before we pick but as much as I'd too like someone capable of big plays I'm not willing to reach for them, no one is that sure a thing in my mind. Turbin is a good back and likely to be available later for those previous injury reasons but what I like about him is he is already a good pass catcher he is more developed & more developable pass blocking and he is capable of being a starting back. And he runs plenty well enough for his size. What happens if BJGE goes down? If that happens I don't know Bernard is ready to carry the load, not sure he ever will be real effective as a starter.


That's where he's projected. He's the biggest, most powerful G in the entire draft. Of course you take him if he's there.

Well he may be projected there but that doesn't necessarily mean he is worth it. Part of the issue with him is his size, conditioning is a concern. He isn't a great athlete either and you put those 2 things together along with the fact he isn't considered a real aggressive type and to me that has the makings of a 3rd round pick, I don't think he goes before the 3rd. I'd still have interest in the guy but I'd not have it there, Osemele (amongst others) seems like a better choice that early.



I wouldn't mind this pick, but recent mocks have Barron gone before 17. Smith is the only other S I would bother looking at, but again he's another talent that likely won't be there in the 2nd, unless you trade up.

There are plenty of intriguing guys for the position sprinkled thoughout the draft. Trumaine Johnson and DeQuan Menzie are a couple I like. Barron though is a guy that I think the Bengals probably would consider BPA should he drop and believe they will take him over most any. I suspect your right though he will probably go before they pick.



With Simpson/Caldwell both gone, and Shipley's health being a concern, I'm not sure I would wait that long to draft Green's counterpart.

I don't know the Bengals are concerned all that much about Shipley, though it's a fair point I suppose. Simpson isn't yet gone, in fact as I pointed out in my post I still expect him to return. Probably after the draft unless Floyd drops to them, which is possible I suppose. But if it were me I'd sign Jerome now.

Mario-Rijo
04-07-2012, 11:16 PM
I expect a WR and CB in the 1st round and a OG in the 2nd this year for the Bengals.

I do think if Barron doesn't drop to them the most likely scenario knowing the Bengals would be this. I just kind of hope we don't. It's my WR bias talking a bit I guess because the 2 most likely available WR's (Floyd & Wright) I actually don't have a problem with. I can see how either could help. There is a part of me though that hopes if they really want one high they take that player in the 1st because I am not a fan of Jeffrey, Sanu and the like in the 2nd.

Mario-Rijo
04-07-2012, 11:35 PM
Crocker released after a nice run at safety, we could be looking at Mays starting next season or Barron in the 1st. Jacob Bell signed to back up at guard, hopefully.

I hope it's not Mays, I can't see how that doesn't end up hurting us early in the season.

As far as Bell goes, I think he is probably a starting OG going into the season. I don't believe they even want to take an OG (at least not before round 4) and they will use the excuse that they just signed 2 to go along with Boling and to a lesser extent Hudson. They'll say they expect Boling to compete for a starting job, probably at RG. And then they will stick Bell at RG to start the season because Boling still isn't bending at the knees and is giving up too much leverage making him ineffective. Then what they should do is start Bell at LG and Wharton at RG where they are both beteer suited for. But since Wharton got a bigger deal he'll stay at LG and they will pound the round peg (Bell) into the square hole (RG). Again giving us an interior OL that isn't quite up to par.

Our only hope is that Otis Hudson lives up to his talent level (which he does have) finally and takes a starting job right out of the gate. Unfortunately he too will be miscast as he is a better LG prospect as well but he'd likely be an upgrade at RG over anyone but Wharton. The other thing is that Boling gets stronger and plays with better leverage, then maybe we can run the ball a bit.

KoryMac5
04-08-2012, 09:23 AM
All these guards on the roster lead me to feel that they are leaning away from Glenn and Decastro in the first. I definitely think they go corner (Gilmore at 21) with one of the picks the other remains a bit of a mystery right now. I think they will wait to see who falls to them at 17, and take BPA.

Tony Cloninger
04-08-2012, 10:36 AM
All these guards on the roster lead me to feel that they are leaning away from Glenn and Decastro in the first. I definitely think they go corner (Gilmore at 21) with one of the picks the other remains a bit of a mystery right now. I think they will wait to see who falls to them at 17, and take BPA.

You're out of your mind if you think they would pass up DeCastro if he is there at 17.....and so are they if they do.

Mario-Rijo
04-08-2012, 11:40 AM
All these guards on the roster lead me to feel that they are leaning away from Glenn and Decastro in the first. I definitely think they go corner (Gilmore at 21) with one of the picks the other remains a bit of a mystery right now. I think they will wait to see who falls to them at 17, and take BPA.

I agree, not sure they were ever that high on him to begin with. They actually seem quite obsessed with the pass rush so I look for pick #17 to be a DL now that Okoye has signed with Tampa Bay. They (Marvin) have talked up Upshaw, both he and Brockers are rumored to have visited this week. Also have visited with Ernest Owusu DE Cal.

Mario-Rijo
04-08-2012, 11:42 AM
You're out of your mind if you think they would pass up DeCastro if he is there at 17.....and so are they if they do.

Why wouldn't they, they have passed on every OG they have ever came across in the 1st round. HoF's abound and they have never touched one.

Tony Cloninger
04-08-2012, 12:04 PM
Why wouldn't they, they have passed on every OG they have ever came across in the 1st round. HoF's abound and they have never touched one.

I know. I am depressed thinking about it. They always think they can coach these guys up........like having Jerry Narron trying to coach up a team is what Alexander is to me....as an OL coach.

LoganBuck
04-08-2012, 12:36 PM
Depending on who does these mocks, I have seen the good corners off the board, or I have seen the guards off the board, or the defensive linemen off the board, or the wide receivers off the board. In regards to the visits, I think the Bengals are just doing their homework, because they have so many different scenarios that could play out. The best advice for each pick is to take the best available player. I don't think any of us would mind if they end up with two of DeCastro, Glenn, Brockers, Floyd, Barron, Gilmore, Kirkpatrick, Richardson, Wright, Upshaw, or Poe. The only things that would drive me crazy is if they take any running back not name Richardson in the first round, or a receiver not named Floyd or Wright.

Danny Serafini
04-08-2012, 12:45 PM
Why wouldn't they, they have passed on every OG they have ever came across in the 1st round. HoF's abound and they have never touched one.

Hall of Famers abound? Since the Bengals entered the league in 1968 only six guards drafted have made the hall. Three were off the board before the Bengals even picked, one slid to the third round so everyone missed on that one, and they passed on one to pick Isaac Curtis, who worked out pretty well. The only real screwup was taking Rickey Dixon (ugh) at #5 in 1988 when Randall McDaniel went at #19. The Bengals have made their share of draft mistakes, but I can't get too upset about the lack of first round guards.

Mario-Rijo
04-08-2012, 01:35 PM
Hall of Famers abound? Since the Bengals entered the league in 1968 only six guards drafted have made the hall. Three were off the board before the Bengals even picked, one slid to the third round so everyone missed on that one, and they passed on one to pick Isaac Curtis, who worked out pretty well. The only real screwup was taking Rickey Dixon (ugh) at #5 in 1988 when Randall McDaniel went at #19. The Bengals have made their share of draft mistakes, but I can't get too upset about the lack of first round guards.

Ok so plenty of pro bowlers then huh? I think you get my drift they don't draft OG's in the 1st no matter how good they might be.

Mario-Rijo
04-08-2012, 01:43 PM
Depending on who does these mocks, I have seen the good corners off the board, or I have seen the guards off the board, or the defensive linemen off the board, or the wide receivers off the board. In regards to the visits, I think the Bengals are just doing their homework, because they have so many different scenarios that could play out. The best advice for each pick is to take the best available player. I don't think any of us would mind if they end up with two of DeCastro, Glenn, Brockers, Floyd, Barron, Gilmore, Kirkpatrick, Richardson, Wright, Upshaw, or Poe. The only things that would drive me crazy is if they take any running back not name Richardson in the first round, or a receiver not named Floyd or Wright.

Not crazy about a few of those guys but I agree mostly. But I just hate to see them go and draft a position that we have some potential answers at only to skip viable options at positions we don't have many/any answers. But not just the visits but the fact they have signed a couple of potential "pass rushers" (Anderson, Harvey) and have checked in/offered on some others (Wimbley, Okoye), they very clearly are trying to get all they can. I do think it's all about how things develop as Kuechly, Barron and perhaps Floyd could make them go away from DE in the 1st if they drop but if not I think they go DL and CB.

KoryMac5
04-08-2012, 04:22 PM
Bengals so far have brought in C/G Konz, WR Sanu, DT Brockers, LB Kuelchy, LB Upshaw, and WR Floyd for visits. They also gave RB Wilson a private workout as well. It still is pretty early but suprised they haven't brought a CB in for a visit yet. Still thinking they lean CB at 21 and hope Kuelchy or Floyd drop to 17. I look for them to take Sanu or Wilson in the 2nd to round out a pretty good first two days.

Not the first time I have heard Konz's name thrown out there either. Rumors have it the Bengals love the kid. Plus Alexander loves guys who are versatile and play multiple line positions. Can't say I would love that pick if it happens.

Mario-Rijo
04-09-2012, 06:40 AM
Bengals so far have brought in C/G Konz, WR Sanu, DT Brockers, LB Kuelchy, LB Upshaw, and WR Floyd for visits. They also gave RB Wilson a private workout as well. It still is pretty early but suprised they haven't brought a CB in for a visit yet. Still thinking they lean CB at 21 and hope Kuelchy or Floyd drop to 17. I look for them to take Sanu or Wilson in the 2nd to round out a pretty good first two days.

Not the first time I have heard Konz's name thrown out there either. Rumors have it the Bengals love the kid. Plus Alexander loves guys who are versatile and play multiple line positions. Can't say I would love that pick if it happens.

Trumaine Johnson, though some regard him as strictly a future safety.

Link (http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/4/6/2930119/2012-nfl-draft-cincinnati-bengals-workout-and-visits-tracker)

Mario-Rijo
04-11-2012, 09:28 AM
Possible Keith Rivers to NY Giants deal going down. Lots of smoke and no one seemingly trying to distinguish the fire. Some speculation that it could be a package deal Rivers+ possibly a 1st rounder for Osi Umenyiora. Several links linked from this thread on Bengals.com.

http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=97512

RiverRat13
04-11-2012, 09:34 AM
. Some speculation that it could be a package deal Rivers+ possibly a 1st rounder for Osi Umenyiora. [/URL]

The Bengals aren't trading a #1 pick for a 30 year old defensive end with one year left on his current contract. At least I hope they wouldn't.

Hoosier Red
04-11-2012, 09:44 AM
The Bengals aren't trading a #1 pick for a 30 year old defensive end with one year left on his current contract. At least I hope they wouldn't.

Who was hurt last year IIRC.

Mario-Rijo
04-11-2012, 09:53 AM
The Bengals aren't trading a #1 pick for a 30 year old defensive end with one year left on his current contract. At least I hope they wouldn't.

I agree, that speculation came from a Giants fan, I figure Rivers plus a mid round pick, maybe a 4th or 5th rounder we do have 2 5th's.

Mario-Rijo
04-11-2012, 09:55 AM
Who was hurt last year IIRC.

PFT Link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/29/osi-umenyiora-out-a-while-with-ankle-injury/)


Osi Umenyiora “out a while” with ankle injury
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 29, 2011, 4:53 PM EDT

A whole lot is going wrong for the New York Giants right now, and we can add Osi Umenyiora’s injury to the list.

Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News reports that a source said Umenyiora is going to be “out a while” with an ankle injury.

Umenyiora suffered a sprained ankle in the second quarter of the Monday night loss to the Saints, and it didn’t initially appear to be serious. But during the game the Giants changed his status from probable to return to out for the rest of the game. And now he’s apparently going to be out for quite a bit longer.

Although injuries have been a problem this season, Umenyiora has played in eight games this year and is second on the team with seven sacks. His absence will be another major hit for a team that has spent most of the season in first place but now has an uphill battle to get to the playoffs.

KoryMac5
04-11-2012, 12:14 PM
Terrance Newman signed with the Bengals today reuniting him with Zimmer. That puts Hall, Clements, Allen, Newman, Jones, and Ghee on the roster at CB. Bengals may look later in the draft for a CB.

Benihana
04-11-2012, 02:07 PM
How about Rivers and a 4th or 5th for Osi. That I'd do. No thanks if the pick is any higher than a 4th.

CTA513
04-11-2012, 02:55 PM
Bengals got the last pick in the 5th round for Rivers.

KoryMac5
04-11-2012, 04:47 PM
You unload Rivers for a 5th, Rey could be suspended for the first 4 games due to conduct. Mike Brown loves local product, Kuelchy in the first?

Usually I have a good idea who the Bengals are leaning towards, this season has been a little unclear.

RiverRat13
04-11-2012, 04:55 PM
The Bengals seem to have quite a bit of depth. Any chance they use those three 5th rounders to move up at some point?

KoryMac5
04-11-2012, 05:29 PM
I could see the Bengals moving around to get the WR or RB they covet in the 2nd. The more picks you have the more you can manuever in the draft.

Joseph
04-11-2012, 05:51 PM
Bengals got the last pick in the 5th round for Rivers.

So they got nothing for a first round pick. Nice work.

HotCorner
04-11-2012, 06:34 PM
So they got nothing for a first round pick. Nice work.

He never played like a first round pick. I'm more impressed they actually got anything for him. The Bengals have actually acquired several players like Rivers (i.e. former first round picks) without giving up anything.

KoryMac5
04-11-2012, 08:02 PM
So they got nothing for a first round pick. Nice work.

Once Ryans was traded to the Eagles for a 4th the market was set for Rivers. I would have loved them to get a 3rd or 4th for him but he never was healthy while with the team which lowered his value greatly.

Hoosier Red
04-11-2012, 09:28 PM
Whether the trade works out or not, it shows a shift in strategy from Mike Brown that I never would have accepted.

A draft pick who failed to live up to draft status was generally not traded for lower value than the original draft, even if it made little sense.

Benihana
04-11-2012, 11:31 PM
Would love to see the Bengals use the extra 5th round picks to trade up from 21 into the mid teens in order to get Barron or Floyd once the other one of them is drafted by another team.

Then take DeCastro or Glenn at 17, and a RB or LB in the 2nd round.

Todd Gack
04-12-2012, 07:23 AM
You unload Rivers for a 5th, Rey could be suspended for the first 4 games due to conduct. Mike Brown loves local product, Kuelchy in the first?

Usually I have a good idea who the Bengals are leaning towards, this season has been a little unclear.

the Bengals might be a better team if Rey were suspended for 16 games.

Mario-Rijo
04-12-2012, 10:18 AM
You unload Rivers for a 5th, Rey could be suspended for the first 4 games due to conduct. Mike Brown loves local product, Kuelchy in the first?

Usually I have a good idea who the Bengals are leaning towards, this season has been a little unclear.

If Kuelchy drops sure but I don' think he will. I keep seeing DL & either CB or WR in the 1st, probably in that order. I doubt strongly that they will go any other route unless of course Kuelchy or Barron drop to them. Just my gut instinct at this point. But I am hoping Barron gets to us and then most everything else will be gravy.

On second thought one other guy who might make sense for them in the 1st though considered perhaps a smidge of a reach by most is Dont'a Hightower.

LoganBuck
04-12-2012, 12:42 PM
Barron and Glenn in for visits today.

Sea Ray
04-17-2012, 11:31 AM
I could see the Bengals moving around to get the WR or RB they covet in the 2nd. The more picks you have the more you can manuever in the draft.

This is the Bengals we're talking about. Mike Brown has never been a wheeler dealer or one to manuever much on draft day. Until that changes I'm expecting very little "manuevering"

Sea Ray
04-17-2012, 11:35 AM
Would love to see the Bengals use the extra 5th round picks to trade up from 21 into the mid teens in order to get Barron or Floyd once the other one of them is drafted by another team.

Then take DeCastro or Glenn at 17, and a RB or LB in the 2nd round.

5th rd picks won't move you up in the 1st rd. I'd be mighty ticked if the Bengals traded out of their #17 pick for any combination of 5th rd picks

medford
04-17-2012, 02:12 PM
Sea Ray, Mike Brown may not historically be a wheeler and a dealer, but in the last year +, they've moved Carson, Chad & Rivers for draft picks, something they rarely did prior. Times they may be a changing.

Using: http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

The Bengals could package their own 5th round pick, along w/ one of the extra 5th round picks to:
Move from 17 to 16
Move from 21 to 20

Which in reality, if they move up 1 spot in either of those cases, its because they're targeting a specific player and the team in front of them is seeing other offers, which means the Bengals would likely have to move more than 2 5th round picks.

They could also:
Move from 58 to 48 (This happens to be the Patriots, a team that usually seems happy to get more picks)

Package their 3rd round pick w/ 2 from the 5th to move up to the bottom of the 2nd/top of the 3rd round.

Package 2 from the 5th to move up near the top of the 4th round. (Is the draft set up the same as last year, round 1 day 1, rounds 2 & 3 day 2, rounds 4-7 on day 3? If so, this could be a move to move up to the top of the 4th to grab a player that didn't go in the first 2 days after all teams have a night to think things over)

Finally, they could package all 3 5th round picks for 1 mid 4th round pick.

Moving up in the 1st round, soley by adding 2 (or even 3) 5th round picks w/ one of their #1 picks has a very low % of happening, no matter what Mike Brown's track record says.

However, using the 5th round picks to move up 5-6 slots in round 2, or to the top of round 3 or 4 could be worthwhile and a better use of those picks than waiting to see who's available.

Now here is something to ponder, using that same chart, lets say the Bengals really wanted to move up and grab Andrew Luck or RGIII. Lets assume this could happen at 2 (where RGIII is 99% going to go), if the Bengals packaged Dalton & the #17 pick, that would assume Dalton is worthy of the #5 pick in this seasons draft. Now obviously this isn't going to happen, but what are the odds if you took what Dalton is considered to be at this point and put him into this draft would he last past the 5th pick????

Sea Ray
04-17-2012, 02:48 PM
Medford, you make my point that the extra 5th rd picks have very, very little value in trades. Using two to move up one spot in the first is not like moving from "21 to the mid teens". I can't see ten rookies making the team so I'd like to see some wheeling and dealing on draft day but I'm not getting my hopes up. Expect very little movement on the part of the Bengals and look for quite a few of our picks to end up on waivers or practice squads...

Mario-Rijo
04-17-2012, 05:54 PM
Medford, you make my point that the extra 5th rd picks have very, very little value in trades. Using two to move up one spot in the first is not like moving from "21 to the mid teens". I can't see ten rookies making the team so I'd like to see some wheeling and dealing on draft day but I'm not getting my hopes up. Expect very little movement on the part of the Bengals and look for quite a few of our picks to end up on waivers or practice squads...

I think moving up to #13 from #17 would take a 3rd and a 5th (maybe 2 5ths) and would be well worth doing. Move ahead of the Boys, Eagles & Jets for Kuechly or Barron one of which is likely to be there. These 2 I think some are realizing are better than where they will ultimately go and either would be a big, big help for the Bengals IMO. Though I do know it's a stretch but if Zimmer steps up and says hey these guys are big time difference makers and will make a big enough impact that losing a 3rd won't be missed I think there's a chance it could happen.

And for Zona, they move down acquire picks and most likely still take the guy they would have at #13, Reiff.

Reds Fanatic
04-17-2012, 07:12 PM
Bengals schedule is out 3 nights games including the first Monday night game at Baltimore.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=CIN

medford
04-18-2012, 09:43 AM
Sea, I agree 100% in that they have no value if they're trying to move up in the 1st round. However, I think the chart shows they have some value if they're trying to move up in the 2nd and decent value in the 3rd & 4th round.

10 picks is nice, but as majio points out, 10 rookies aren't going to make this squad. There are always a couple of players that fall for unknown reasons that could give them good value in the 3rd round by packaging 2 5s and their own 3rd if they can get near the top of the 3rd round. I also like mario's proposal of packaging a 3rd, 5th & 1st to move up in the 1st.

The Bengals have the ammo to move up in the draft should they decide. Its doubtful any potential deal would come down to two 5th round picks, plus a swap of same round picks, but a combination of picks from different rounds could ensure they get their man rather than settling for what's left when their name is called.

Sea Ray
04-18-2012, 10:03 AM
Sea, I agree 100% in that they have no value if they're trying to move up in the 1st round. However, I think the chart shows they have some value if they're trying to move up in the 2nd and decent value in the 3rd & 4th round.

10 picks is nice, but as majio points out, 10 rookies aren't going to make this squad. There are always a couple of players that fall for unknown reasons that could give them good value in the 3rd round by packaging 2 5s and their own 3rd if they can get near the top of the 3rd round. I also like mario's proposal of packaging a 3rd, 5th & 1st to move up in the 1st.

The Bengals have the ammo to move up in the draft should they decide. Its doubtful any potential deal would come down to two 5th round picks, plus a swap of same round picks, but a combination of picks from different rounds could ensure they get their man rather than settling for what's left when their name is called.

Actually it was me that mentioned that ten rookies won't make it:


I can't see ten rookies making the team so I'd like to see some wheeling and dealing on draft day but I'm not getting my hopes up. Expect very little movement on the part of the Bengals and look for quite a few of our picks to end up on waivers or practice squads...

And just to set the record straight, we don't have a 7th rd pick so I should have said 9 picks.

My guess is if the Bengals trade any 2012 picks, it'll be to pickup picks next yr. I'm not expecting anything as creative as what you've described but I'd love to be ...:shocked: come draft weekend

schmidty622
04-18-2012, 10:37 AM
Bengals schedule is out 3 nights games including the first Monday night game at Baltimore.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=CIN

My super early predictions;

Mon. Sept. 10 at Baltimore 7 p.m. - Loss
Sun. Sept. 16 CLEVELAND 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Sept. 23 at Washington 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Sept. 30 at Jacksonville 4:05 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 7 MIAMI 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 14 at Cleveland 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 21 PITTSBURGH 8:20 p.m. - Loss
--BYE--
Sun.Nov. 4 DENVER1 p.m.- Win
Sun. Nov. 11 N.Y. GIANTS 1 p.m. - Loss
Sun.Nov. 18 at Kansas City*1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Nov. 25 OAKLAND*1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Dec. 2 at San Diego*4:15 p.m. - Loss
Sun.Dec. 9 DALLAS*1 p.m.- Loss
Thu.Dec. 13 at Philadelphia8:20 p.m. - Loss
Sun.Dec. 23 at Pittsburgh*1 p.m. - Loss
Sun.Dec. 30 BALTIMORE*1 p.m. - Win

Total 9-7.

In the wild card hunt. The back half of the schedule is absolutely brutal.

Mario-Rijo
04-18-2012, 11:24 AM
Mike Mayock breaks down the numbers. Want to put this link here for future reference mainly. But many might enjoy understanding what combine/pro day numbers are used for and what is good and bad. The position drills are explained as well, good stuff.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/workouts

RiverRat13
04-19-2012, 08:04 AM
Knowing full well that the Bengals will probably prove me a fool for having high expectations once again, I'll still have a go at it...

Mon. Sept. 10 at Baltimore 7 p.m. - Loss
Sun. Sept. 16 CLEVELAND 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Sept. 23 at Washington 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Sept. 30 at Jacksonville 4:05 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 7 MIAMI 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 14 at Cleveland 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 21 PITTSBURGH 8:20 p.m. - Loss
--BYE--
Sun.Nov. 4 DENVER1 p.m.- Loss
Sun. Nov. 11 N.Y. GIANTS 1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Nov. 18 at Kansas City*1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Nov. 25 OAKLAND*1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Dec. 2 at San Diego*4:15 p.m. - Loss
Sun.Dec. 9 DALLAS*1 p.m.- Win
Thu.Dec. 13 at Philadelphia8:20 p.m. - Loss
Sun.Dec. 23 at Pittsburgh*1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Dec. 30 BALTIMORE*1 p.m. - Win

11-5. The 9-7 prediction is probably more likely. I could see '12 being the slight regression year that many surprisingly good teams and then '13 being the year the Bengals are primed to make a serious run at a Super Bowl.

cincrazy
04-19-2012, 12:31 PM
Knowing full well that the Bengals will probably prove me a fool for having high expectations once again, I'll still have a go at it...

Mon. Sept. 10 at Baltimore 7 p.m. - Loss
Sun. Sept. 16 CLEVELAND 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Sept. 23 at Washington 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Sept. 30 at Jacksonville 4:05 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 7 MIAMI 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 14 at Cleveland 1 p.m. - Win
Sun. Oct. 21 PITTSBURGH 8:20 p.m. - Loss
--BYE--
Sun.Nov. 4 DENVER1 p.m.- Loss
Sun. Nov. 11 N.Y. GIANTS 1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Nov. 18 at Kansas City*1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Nov. 25 OAKLAND*1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Dec. 2 at San Diego*4:15 p.m. - Loss
Sun.Dec. 9 DALLAS*1 p.m.- Win
Thu.Dec. 13 at Philadelphia8:20 p.m. - Loss
Sun.Dec. 23 at Pittsburgh*1 p.m. - Win
Sun.Dec. 30 BALTIMORE*1 p.m. - Win

11-5. The 9-7 prediction is probably more likely. I could see '12 being the slight regression year that many surprisingly good teams and then '13 being the year the Bengals are primed to make a serious run at a Super Bowl.

They better get off to a good start, because the backend of the schedule is BRUTAL.

Benihana
04-19-2012, 12:40 PM
If they start any worse than 5-1 their playoff hopes are crushed.

I think 21 is the spot they need to trade out of. Either trade up or down. Assuming DeCastro is there and the pick at 17, there is no one I love for the value at 21. Either trade up to 13 (from 21) and draft Barron or Floyd or trade down to the end of the first round and draft guys like Stephen Hill, Ruben Randle, or maybe even Janoris Jenkins.

I wonder what it would cost to trade up to 13 from 21? I'd give a 3rd rounder and maybe a 3rd or 4th in 2013. I would not do it for a 2nd rounder, I'd rather trade down with that pick.

Mario-Rijo
04-19-2012, 02:01 PM
If they start any worse than 5-1 their playoff hopes are crushed.

I think 21 is the spot they need to trade out of. Either trade up or down. Assuming DeCastro is there and the pick at 17, there is no one I love for the value at 21. Either trade up to 13 (from 21) and draft Barron or Floyd or trade down to the end of the first round and draft guys like Stephen Hill, Ruben Randle, or maybe even Janoris Jenkins.

I wonder what it would cost to trade up to 13 from 21? I'd give a 3rd rounder and maybe a 3rd or 4th in 2013. I would not do it for a 2nd rounder, I'd rather trade down with that pick.

Really, I think that area is pretty strong actually.

Redsfaithful
04-19-2012, 02:20 PM
I think they need to beat the Ravens and start 6-0. They could plausibly lose the last ten games.

Sea Ray
04-19-2012, 02:24 PM
If they're going to be a playoff team, they'll have to win some of those last games. Starting 6-1 is a tall order in the NFL and if they fall a little short, I won't give up on them. They will have to play better than last yr if they are to contend for the playoffs

Slyder
04-19-2012, 02:36 PM
Oakland @ Cincy anyone have a spare ticket to provide some color to the game :D.

RiverRat13
04-19-2012, 04:46 PM
I think some of you are giving the NFC East way too much credit. That was a pretty mediocre division last year.

KoryMac5
04-19-2012, 06:50 PM
Ric Gosselin is a writer that used to do a ton of work in the draft. He is not a scout but pretty well connected to front office folks around the leagues. His mocks are highly rated every year. He isn't able to do draft work any more but did throw out some interesting info:


I made some call over the weekends and there are 6 blue chippers and 22 first rounder caliber guys in this draft. So I don’t mind don’t mind trading down a couple of spots from 14 to 18, but I don’t drop back all the way back to 25. The problem is there isn’t a difference between the 25th, 35th and 45th pick in this draft. There’s not going to be a whole lot of trading up or down after 20. I think need will come into play. You know, I thought this would be a better pass rush group, but they all have a ding.

Well, let’s go over some of the DL and you tell me their ding….

Poe?
Underachiever. 2nd Team Conference USA

Coples ?
Motor doesn’t always run. Julius Peppers ability, but doesn’t always show on the field.

Brockers?
5.0+ 40 yard dash, and strictly a run player. He might be a dominating run player, but you won’t get pass rush from him. I’m also worried about LSU defensive linemen. Dorsey and Jackson have been underachievers.

Cox?
The first DL to go. He’ll be gone by 10 or 11.

Kuechly, Barron, and DeCastro are walk on starters who could be in the Pro Bowl in 3 years, but they just play non premium positions.

The trade movement will be for Tannehill because he’s going in the Top 10. A team might try to jump ahead of Miami. I don’t see anyone trading up for Barron or DeCastro, maybe for Kuechly because he’s the safest player in the draft. In most drafts I’ve done I see 8 or 9 blue chippers, but I don’t have that in this draft.

Do you believe in Tannehill?
I believe in the need for the position. Look at Locker and Ponder last year. He would be a great guy to draft behind Favre and groom him for a couple of years. He’s not ready to play right away. He’s like Gabbert, who wasn’t ready to play last year. If you draft him and develop him for a couple of years, he could be fine. But if you draft him Top 10 and want him to play him right away, I don’t think you’re going to like what you see.

I would be thrilled with Barron or Decastro in the first, I think Kuelchy is gone by the time we get to him. I want the Bengals to take a guy who can play right away and contribute.

Dan
04-20-2012, 09:39 AM
My wish-list, of guys I expect could be there, in order:

Richardson (I'm dreaming of him falling; won't happen)
DeCastro
Gilmore
Barron
Kirkpatrick
Glenn
Martin
Hill
Miller
Wright

redsmetz
04-20-2012, 01:16 PM
C Trent's column this week in City Beat viz the Bengals draft

http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-25308-bengals_have_options_with_two_first_round_picks.ht ml

RiverRat13
04-20-2012, 02:16 PM
My wish-list, of guys I expect could be there, in order:

Richardson (I'm dreaming of him falling; won't happen)
DeCastro
Gilmore
Barron
Kirkpatrick
Glenn
Martin
Hill
Miller
Wright

DeCastro is the one guy that I will be upset if he's there and the Bengals don't take him. The Bengals redzone TD% was around 44% last year. I'm pretty sure the league average was around 54%. The Lawfirm, a healthy Shipley and better interior line play will go a long way to getting the Bengals to league average and quite possibly above average. It is the one easily identifiable area that will directly lead to an increase in points.

And really, as long as a CB and OG are taken at some point in the first three rounds I can probably talk myself into being satisfied. It's nice to have depth and few glaring holes. Yes, there are places to upgrade, but outside of the interior line and secondary I don't think there are any other true holes.

Benihana
04-20-2012, 03:14 PM
My wish list:
Richardson (of course virtually no chance)
Barron
Floyd
DeCastro
(gap)
Gilmore
Glenn
Upshaw
Kirkpatrick
Brockers

LoganBuck
04-20-2012, 07:58 PM
Barron
Floyd
DeCastro
Gilmore
Kuechly

gap


Upshaw
Kirkpatrick
Wright

gap

Coples
Glenn
Brockers

Mario-Rijo
04-20-2012, 08:04 PM
My wish list in order.

At #17 or sooner
Kalil (the value would be just too good to ignore)
Kuechly
Barron
Cox
Richardson
DeCastro
Gilmore
Chandler Jones
Michael Floyd
Claiborne

At #21 (and partially depending on who we take at #17)
Anyone of those prior listed guys
Dont'a Hightower
Cordy Glenn
LaVonte David
Trade Down

Not enamored with but would not gripe (too much publicly anyway) about (not in any specific order):
Coples (not sure about his mentality, seems like he has a tough time staying motivated)
Poe (needs alot of coaching but I like his talent/motor, just not sure he has the mental ability to adapt)
Wright (think he is intriguing just think it's a bit high for him and the fit is a little iffy)
Kirkpatrick (could be great but just not enough info)
Jenkins (just so ya know this is just due to the off the field risk otherwise he is top 5 for me)
Hill (love his talent, but the value @21 IMO is debatable)
Harrison Smith (same reasoning as Hill)
Shea McClellin (like him quite a bit but again just not quite this high)
Blackmon (good player just average speed/size makes me feel he will underachieve the perception of a top 5 type talent)

Do not want either because I don't see the fit or just think they will bust/greatly underachieve:
Ingram (don't completely doubt his ability, just doesn't fit IMO)
Upshaw (under talented for the mid 1st round IMO)
Brockers (to me just says bust waiting to happen, dedication?)
Nick Perry (another underachiever/bust I think)
Fleener (I just don't want a TE in the 1st unless he is already good all around)

Kuechly & Barron would be a dream scenario, I'd forgo the need of an OG for that duo. But if I could get just one of those guys (Kuechly is probably out of reach) I'd probably prefer Barron and DeCastro/Gilmore/Jones/Hightower at #21.

5TimeWSChamps
04-23-2012, 02:56 AM
I think Floyd's gonna drop to 17 and the Bengals will take him if there.

Time to pray that Gilmore falls to 21.

If that happens, watch out

Dan
04-23-2012, 07:29 AM
I wonder if there's a chance that teams pull back a bit on Tannehill and he slides down to 17. Would a team like the Browns want to move up and take him at that point?

Dan
04-23-2012, 07:36 AM
DeCastro is the one guy that I will be upset if he's there and the Bengals don't take him. The Bengals redzone TD% was around 44% last year. I'm pretty sure the league average was around 54%. The Lawfirm, a healthy Shipley and better interior line play will go a long way to getting the Bengals to league average and quite possibly above average. It is the one easily identifiable area that will directly lead to an increase in points.

And really, as long as a CB and OG are taken at some point in the first three rounds I can probably talk myself into being satisfied. It's nice to have depth and few glaring holes. Yes, there are places to upgrade, but outside of the interior line and secondary I don't think there are any other true holes.

I'm with you (obviously) on DeCastro. Was actually wondering what the O-line would be like if they could draft both DeCastro AND Glenn. Dalton could probably sit back in the pocket and read War and Peace and not be disturbed in the slightest.

The other true hole is feature back. But there is value in rounds 2-4 (Miller, Wilson, Polk, Pead (is his nickname I-Pead?)) any of which I would be fine with.

Wide receiver would get a big boost if Simpson returns. Then they could focus on depth in rounds 3-5.

Defensive line also needs to be addressed in rounds 3-6. They can afford to take a guy with a few flaws; the rotation scheme probably does a good job at hiding certain players' deficiencies.

I also wouldn't mind a project QB with one of the 5th round picks, if you can get value. Never hurts to have someone there #justincase.

RiverRat13
04-23-2012, 07:55 AM
This won't happen but I'm curious to know if anybody knows the rules well enough to answer...

Let's say somebody wants to move up from the 2nd round to #21 and gives the Bengals their 2nd rounder in '12 and first rounder in '13. Can the Bengals then sign Mike Wallace after the draft knowing that they'll lose their first rounder in '13 but they'll still have the unnamed trade team's first rounder?

Dan
04-23-2012, 08:10 AM
This won't happen but I'm curious to know if anybody knows the rules well enough to answer...

Let's say somebody wants to move up from the 2nd round to #21 and gives the Bengals their 2nd rounder in '12 and first rounder in '13. Can the Bengals then sign Mike Wallace after the draft knowing that they'll lose their first rounder in '13 but they'll still have the unnamed trade team's first rounder?

No, I believe the deadline to sign Mike Wallace and grant compensation to the Steelers was midnight last night or Saturday night.

RiverRat13
04-23-2012, 08:12 AM
No, I believe the deadline to sign Mike Wallace and grant compensation to the Steelers was midnight last night or Saturday night.

Cool. Thanks!

bucksfan2
04-23-2012, 09:34 AM
A couple of my "rules" for the draft:

-I don't like risers who rise because of stuff done without pads.
-I like guys who fall because of stuff that happens without pads.
-I don't like WR's early in the draft.
-Value is to be had on RB's later in the draft.
-You can never go wrong with Tackles

As for what the Bengals do I have no idea. They have beefed up their two biggest weaknesses this off season. They have added guards and CB's to the point where they don't "need" one. I think the positions of need are S, WR, and LB. Simpson isn't a #2 WR, they don't have a playmaker in the back 7 of their defense. If DeCastro isn't there and Floyd is I wouldn't have a problem with that. I wouldn't have an issue with them taking anything other than a QB. If there is a good T there I wouldn't have an issue with them making Smith a G. Two picks sure make it more interesting come Thursday.

HotCorner
04-23-2012, 10:38 AM
-I don't like WR's early in the draft.


So you didn't like the AJ Green pick? ;)

I'm hoping for DeCastro at 17 but feel he will be gone. Same for Luke Kuechly. Others I like in the first: Gilmore, Barron, Hill, Kirkpatrick, Glenn

wolfboy
04-23-2012, 12:35 PM
So you didn't like the AJ Green pick? ;)

I'm hoping for DeCastro at 17 but feel he will be gone. Same for Luke Kuechly. Others I like in the first: Gilmore, Barron, Hill, Kirkpatrick, Glenn

Just for kicks, I looked at top 10 picks at WR since 2000. The list is below, and where they were selected. Active players (as of the 2011 season) are in bold:

Peter Warrick (4)
Plaxico Burress (8)
Travis Taylor (10)
David Terrell (8)
Koren Robinson (9)
Charles Rogers (2)
Andre Johnson (3)
Larry Fitzgerald (3)
Roy Williams (7)
Reggie Williams (9)
Braylon Edwards (3)
Troy Williamson (7)
Mike Williams (10)
Calvin Johnson (2)
Ted Ginn (9)
Darrius Heyward-Bey (7)
Michael Crabtree (10)
A.J. Green (4)
Julio Jones (6)

It's an interesting list that's filled with boom or bust. Some of the best wide receivers in the NFL are on the list in Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson. Arguably some of the best up and coming receivers in the NFL are also on that list in A.J. Green and Julio Jones. The list also contains some serious stinkers and a few decent journeymen. I don't know what success rates are for other positions selected within the top 10, but receiver is spotty.

bucksfan2
04-23-2012, 01:21 PM
So you didn't like the AJ Green pick? ;)

I'm hoping for DeCastro at 17 but feel he will be gone. Same for Luke Kuechly. Others I like in the first: Gilmore, Barron, Hill, Kirkpatrick, Glenn

Didn't like the AJ Green pick at the time. Thought the Bengals had holes all over its squad, but I also didn't realize how good Green was. The thing with WR's is they tend to turn into divas early on and also a high price for a position that depends on several other factors to be successful.

TeamSelig
04-23-2012, 02:21 PM
I hated the Green pick. Hated. Man I am stupid.

wolfboy
04-23-2012, 02:25 PM
I hated the Green pick. Hated. Man I am stupid.

I wasn't so sure either. Sometimes I love being wrong.

medford
04-23-2012, 04:45 PM
I didn't love the Green pick either, until they drafted Andy Dalton to go along with it, and thought it was a great combination of picks to move this team forward. The team had so many holes last season, they almost couldn't have gone wrong, but to nail home runs on their 1st two picks was huge for this franchise. For a team that drafted so poorly in the 90s, they've really nailed their drafts since the turn of the century more or less (05 & 08 were real crappers, while in '04 looks weak thans to the Chris Perry signing, but is made up for in solid depth provided by Williams and Geathers)

This year's draft, I'm zoning into 4 spots that I think need immediate boosts, if they can find answers as solidly as they did last year for 3 of these spots thru the 1st 3 rounds, they'll be in good shape. Gaurd, WR, RB, CB. Ideally, I'd love to see them land a Gaurd/CB combo in the 1st, a RB in the 2nd or 3rd and best available at the other spot in the 2nd or 3rd. However, I keep having the feeling that a WR is coming off the board at 17 or 21. I probably won't like it at the time, but a speedster opposite Green w/ Jordan Shipley and Greshman filling in holes underneath could open this offense a ton. I may not "love" it at the time, when it happens, but I might love the end result.

Benihana
04-23-2012, 06:12 PM
I didn't love the Green pick either, until they drafted Andy Dalton to go along with it, and thought it was a great combination of picks to move this team forward. The team had so many holes last season, they almost couldn't have gone wrong, but to nail home runs on their 1st two picks was huge for this franchise. For a team that drafted so poorly in the 90s, they've really nailed their drafts since the turn of the century more or less (05 & 08 were real crappers, while in '04 looks weak thans to the Chris Perry signing, but is made up for in solid depth provided by Williams and Geathers)

This year's draft, I'm zoning into 4 spots that I think need immediate boosts, if they can find answers as solidly as they did last year for 3 of these spots thru the 1st 3 rounds, they'll be in good shape. Gaurd, WR, RB, CB. Ideally, I'd love to see them land a Gaurd/CB combo in the 1st, a RB in the 2nd or 3rd and best available at the other spot in the 2nd or 3rd. However, I keep having the feeling that a WR is coming off the board at 17 or 21. I probably won't like it at the time, but a speedster opposite Green w/ Jordan Shipley and Greshman filling in holes underneath could open this offense a ton. I may not "love" it at the time, when it happens, but I might love the end result.

The only WR I want at 17 is Floyd. If he's gone, hopefully either Barron, DeCastro, or Gilmore will be available.

I don't think there is much value for the Bengals at 21. I'd prefer to see them trade out of that spot.

KoryMac5
04-23-2012, 08:55 PM
Gilmore is flying up the draft board, no way he gets past 10. My thoughts are on a roll tide draft with the Bengals getting Upshaw and Kirkpatrick with their first two picks. Then you could see them go to WR in the second or RB depending on BPA.

Mario-Rijo
04-24-2012, 04:14 AM
I didn't love the Green pick either, until they drafted Andy Dalton to go along with it, and thought it was a great combination of picks to move this team forward. The team had so many holes last season, they almost couldn't have gone wrong, but to nail home runs on their 1st two picks was huge for this franchise. For a team that drafted so poorly in the 90s, they've really nailed their drafts since the turn of the century more or less (05 & 08 were real crappers, while in '04 looks weak thans to the Chris Perry signing, but is made up for in solid depth provided by Williams and Geathers)

This year's draft, I'm zoning into 4 spots that I think need immediate boosts, if they can find answers as solidly as they did last year for 3 of these spots thru the 1st 3 rounds, they'll be in good shape. Gaurd, WR, RB, CB. Ideally, I'd love to see them land a Gaurd/CB combo in the 1st, a RB in the 2nd or 3rd and best available at the other spot in the 2nd or 3rd. However, I keep having the feeling that a WR is coming off the board at 17 or 21. I probably won't like it at the time, but a speedster opposite Green w/ Jordan Shipley and Greshman filling in holes underneath could open this offense a ton. I may not "love" it at the time, when it happens, but I might love the end result.

Personally I think their biggest hole is now Safety. If Taylor Mays starts the season at SS they are in trouble and will lose a few games figuring out he cannot cover a lick. The guy has the lateral movement of a LB and not even a good LB, we're talking ILB Brandon Spikes and he is a 2 down guy. It's not ideal at WR and OG perhaps but there are guys already on the roster who could be serviceable. RB is sort of a luxury pick in a way, they can get by with what they have there. DT depth is a must as well. DE will probably also get picked somewhere just because "you can never have enough pass rushers".

RiverRat13
04-24-2012, 07:48 AM
I'm starting to see a few more mocks that have the Bengals taking a defensive lineman with one of their #1s.

bucksfan2
04-24-2012, 09:09 AM
I didn't love the Green pick either, until they drafted Andy Dalton to go along with it, and thought it was a great combination of picks to move this team forward. The team had so many holes last season, they almost couldn't have gone wrong, but to nail home runs on their 1st two picks was huge for this franchise. For a team that drafted so poorly in the 90s, they've really nailed their drafts since the turn of the century more or less (05 & 08 were real crappers, while in '04 looks weak thans to the Chris Perry signing, but is made up for in solid depth provided by Williams and Geathers)

The Bengals have done a pretty good job of drafting ever since Marvin took control. I really don't have a problem with the Perry draft since he went down with an injury. The 05 draft could have been the best in team history with playmakers taken in the 2nd and 3rd. The problem was a significant amount of risk that ended up back firing. The 08 draft wasn't that awful, was it? They had contributors in Sims, Simpson, Caldwell and Collins. It was a draft that added depth, nothing special, but depth. Every team needs players like those guys, just not taken with high picks.

As I type this I guess I have different standars for drafts. Its all about making the right picks and picks that make sense. You can't really fault a team for picking Perry and Pollack when injuries derailed their careers.


This year's draft, I'm zoning into 4 spots that I think need immediate boosts, if they can find answers as solidly as they did last year for 3 of these spots thru the 1st 3 rounds, they'll be in good shape. Gaurd, WR, RB, CB. Ideally, I'd love to see them land a Gaurd/CB combo in the 1st, a RB in the 2nd or 3rd and best available at the other spot in the 2nd or 3rd. However, I keep having the feeling that a WR is coming off the board at 17 or 21. I probably won't like it at the time, but a speedster opposite Green w/ Jordan Shipley and Greshman filling in holes underneath could open this offense a ton. I may not "love" it at the time, when it happens, but I might love the end result.

S, OG, CB, LB, WR are all positions of need for me. I hope they don't reach for a WR or RB and take on that falls to them.

wolfboy
04-24-2012, 10:01 AM
Looks like Simpson will be suspended for three games:

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2012/04/24/report-simpson-to-be-suspended-three-games/

I really hope the Bengals pass on the guy.

TeamSelig
04-24-2012, 12:24 PM
Part of me wants the Bengals to draft for the secondary and maybe a guard..... the other half wants to see us move up, grab Richardson, and have a pretty cool offensive team.

I think the smart move would be to grab a G and S/CB... and maybe a LB later on.

LoganBuck
04-24-2012, 12:34 PM
Give me Floyd and a Defensive Lineman.

Seems like the top corners will be off the board, Kirkpatrick will probably still be there, but he is a bigger corner and the Bengals need a guy that is more of speedster to match up on slot guys.

DeCastro will be gone, and from the sounds of it, the Bengals aren't enamored with Glenn in the first round.

I see the defensive linemen dropping. I haven't really looked at Coples, Poe, or Ingram. I didn't think they would be there. Coples has the label as not having a motor, Poe is a workout warrior, and Ingram has the dreaded short arms label.

bucksfan2
04-24-2012, 01:28 PM
nm

RiverRat13
04-24-2012, 03:10 PM
Full 7-round mock on NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8288dc3b/article/sevenround-mock-projecting-every-pick-in-2012-nfl-draft?module=HP11_cp

Yachtzee
04-24-2012, 03:29 PM
Ah yes, the NFL Draft. The media spectacle that brings out "experts" who make huge amounts of cash being wrong most of the time. I love how the Mel Kiper, Jr. types cover their bases now by releasing 100 mock drafts, just so they can claim they got it right when a team picks just about any warm body.

I take a wait and see attitude. We'll see who the Bengals draft when they take them and we'll know how well it went for them in about 2-3 seasons.

mash3024
04-24-2012, 03:32 PM
Looks like Simpson is headed to the Vikings
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8288e51f/article/minnesota-vikings-wr-jerome-simpson-agree-to-oneyear-deal?module=HP11_headline_stack

Benihana
04-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Updated wish list:

FIRST ROUND
1. Trent Richardson (obviously he'll be gone but he is so far ahead of everyone else I had to include him)
2. Justin Blackmon (he will also be gone although his stock may be slipping a bit)
3. Mark Barron
4. Michael Floyd
5. David DeCastro
6. Luke Kuechly
7. Stephon Gilmore
(gap)
8. Cordy Glenn
9. Michael Brockers
10. Courtney Upshaw
11. Dre Kirkpatrick
12. Stephen Hill
(tie) Reuben Randle

SECOND ROUND
1. Reuben Randle
2. Doug Martin
3. Janoris Jenkins
4. Kevin Zeitler
(gap)
5. Alshon Jeffery
6. Peter Konz
7. Lamar Miller
8. David Wilson
9. Harrison Smith
10. LaMichael James

THIRD ROUND (assuming no RB drafted)
1. LaMichael James
2. Isaiah Pead
3. Amini Silatoulu (I love Samoan guards- could be the next Iupati)

wolfboy
04-24-2012, 04:48 PM
Ah yes, the NFL Draft. The media spectacle that brings out "experts" who make huge amounts of cash being wrong most of the time. I love how the Mel Kiper, Jr. types cover their bases now by releasing 100 mock drafts, just so they can claim they got it right when a team picks just about any warm body.

I take a wait and see attitude. We'll see who the Bengals draft when they take them and we'll know how well it went for them in about 2-3 seasons.

It feels weird saying this, there's a small part of me that misses the Bengals drafts of the pre-Marvin era. You didn't have to wait 2-3 seasons to judge. You knew they screwed it up the day after the draft (if not earlier). Anyone remember the Sean Brewer pick?

From Wikipedia, the home of unquestionable truth:


Brewer was drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals in the third round (66th overall) in the 2001 NFL Draft. However shortly after being drafted by the Bengals, it was discovered that Brewer had a three-pack-a-day cigarette addiction. As a rookie, Brewer did not see any game action.

I don't care who you are, that's just funny (but only in retrospect....man was it painful at the time).

Ohayou
04-24-2012, 06:30 PM
I understand this year's draft is loaded with WR talent, but the Bengals absolutely should consider drafting one in the 1st. They desperately need another receiver to complement Green, now more than ever. Simpson and Caldwell are both gone, Shipley is coming off a knee injury, Tate sucks, Hawkins is too small, Binns was a practice squad reject, Whalen has caught 4 passes...blah, blah, blah. If you honestly think it would be ideal to wait until the 4th-5th (all three 5s are practically in the 6th anyways) round for your future #2, then I have nothing to say to you.

Dan
04-24-2012, 06:49 PM
It feels weird saying this, there's a small part of me that misses the Bengals drafts of the pre-Marvin era. You didn't have to wait 2-3 seasons to judge. You knew they screwed it up the day after the draft (if not earlier). Anyone remember the Sean Brewer pick?

From Wikipedia, the home of unquestionable truth:



I don't care who you are, that's just funny (but only in retrospect....man was it painful at the time).

I do remember that. Almost as bad as drafting Johnny Oliver first round only to find out he had night-blindness. Going cheap costs you in the long run, no matter what.

Dan
04-24-2012, 07:11 PM
OK, here's a scenario: Tannehill drops to 17. Do the Bengals try to rape the Browns so they can move up to take him? The Dolphins and Bills are interested too, and have picks at the top of the 2nd round to trade (along with their conditional #1/#2 next year). That would be a sweet spot to be in.

Ohayou
04-24-2012, 08:12 PM
They would be stupid not to.

The DARK
04-24-2012, 09:12 PM
I understand this year's draft is loaded with WR talent, but the Bengals absolutely should consider drafting one in the 1st. They desperately need another another receiver to complement Green, now more than ever. Simpson and Caldwell are both gone, Shipley is coming off a knee injury, Tate sucks, Hawkins is too small, Binns was a practice squad reject, Whalen has caught 4 passes...blah, blah, blah. If you honestly think it would be ideal to wait until the 4th-5th (all three 5s are practically in the 6th anyways) round for your future #2, then I have nothing to say to you.

Our positions of need seem pretty well spelled out for us this year. OG needs an upgrade ASAP in either the 1st or 2nd rounds. WR needs to be addressed at some point in the first 3 rounds with Hawkins not looking like a legitimate #2. RB needs a speed/big play back to complement Green-Ellis and get the serious upgrade that it needs. On defense, a big-time early round CB talent is needed, but can wait until next season if necessary. If a faller (like Luke Kuechly) hits us, we could use the upgrade at ILB, SS, or the DL as well.

It sounds like a lot, but we've got a draft blessed to fit our needs. There are two very draftable 1st round OGs with options later on. WR has an excellent crop all-around, and will be producing impact players from the first round well on into day 2. CB has a bunch of talent in the first round right around our number and high risk/high reward later selections to keep us interested. RB brings a bunch of speed backs that are likely to fall to later rounds, giving us a chance to upgrade from Scott and address other needs early on. And there are a bunch of potential fallers like Coples who we could take. Unless Mike Brown really reaches with one of those first rounders, it's hard to see how we could come out of this poorly.

TeamSelig
04-25-2012, 12:57 AM
I think I would be happy with Kirkpatrick or Gilmore and DeCastro or Glenn with our 1st RD picks.

Grab a WR in the 2nd or 3rd RD depending on who is available. I think that improves the team quite a bit.

RiverRat13
04-25-2012, 07:49 AM
OK, here's a scenario: Tannehill drops to 17. Do the Bengals try to rape the Browns so they can move up to take him? The Dolphins and Bills are interested too, and have picks at the top of the 2nd round to trade (along with their conditional #1/#2 next year). That would be a sweet spot to be in.

I think #21 might be the chance to trade back with a team wanting to get ahead of Cleveland for Weeden.

It may be smoke and mirrors, but now I wouldn't be shocked to see the Bengals go defense at both #17 and #21. Marvin talked about how they've gone offense the last couple of years. If Poe drops to #17 and obvious guys like DeCastro and Barron are off the board, I could see the Bengals pulling the trigger.

medford
04-25-2012, 08:31 AM
Ah yes, the NFL Draft. The media spectacle that brings out "experts" who make huge amounts of cash being wrong most of the time. I love how the Mel Kiper, Jr. types cover their bases now by releasing 100 mock drafts, just so they can claim they got it right when a team picks just about any warm body.

I take a wait and see attitude. We'll see who the Bengals draft when they take them and we'll know how well it went for them in about 2-3 seasons.

Mel Kiper's strength isn't so much the loads of mock drafts that he does, but that any random player at any point in the draft will get picked and Mel has a reasonable (relatively speaking) amount of knowledge on the guy. The guy has a familarity with 300+ college prospects probably more like 500. That in itself is impressive. I have a feeling the 100 mock drafts are for the fans that demand them, not so Mel can say he got such and such right on such and such date. Like most preseason polls and bracketologies, the authors of such always seem to indicate how much they hate doing them that early, but are forced to by their employeer because if ESPN doesn't have a 2013 Mock up on its web page by the middle of next week, their competitors are going to and ESPN is going to lose a share of web hits for people interested in a 2013 Mock (which I'm sure already exists on the Web somewhere right now)

Dan
04-25-2012, 09:09 AM
Mel Kiper's strength isn't so much the loads of mock drafts that he does, but that any random player at any point in the draft will get picked and Mel has a reasonable (relatively speaking) amount of knowledge on the guy. The guy has a familarity with 300+ college prospects probably more like 500. That in itself is impressive. I have a feeling the 100 mock drafts are for the fans that demand them, not so Mel can say he got such and such right on such and such date. Like most preseason polls and bracketologies, the authors of such always seem to indicate how much they hate doing them that early, but are forced to by their employeer because if ESPN doesn't have a 2013 Mock up on its web page by the middle of next week, their competitors are going to and ESPN is going to lose a share of web hits for people interested in a 2013 Mock (which I'm sure already exists on the Web somewhere right now)

I present to you the WalterFootball.com 2013 Mock Draft (http://walterfootball.com/draft2013.php).

HotCorner
04-25-2012, 09:41 AM
I get the feeling that Gilmore, Kirkpatrick and Barron will all be gone before 17. Who unexpectedly falls?

I really want Decastro at 17 and now want Hill at 21.

Sea Ray
04-25-2012, 10:02 AM
I get the feeling that Gilmore, Kirkpatrick and Barron will all be gone before 17. Who unexpectedly falls?

I really want Decastro at 17 and now want Hill at 21.

That would be great!:pray:

TeamSelig
04-25-2012, 10:28 AM
If Gilmore/Kirkpatrick/Barron are all gone, someone has to drop. Floyd, Kuechly, Upshaw, Brockers, Ingram, etc.

There will be a decent OL available IMO. DeCastro, Glenn, or Reiff.

I think Barron goes to Dallas.

Benihana
04-25-2012, 11:34 AM
Kirkpatrick will be there when the Bengals pick but I don't really want him, especially not at 17.

The others might be gone. I'm hearing the Bengals really like Courtney Upshaw.

I'd still love to take one of Barron/Floyd/DeCastro/Gilmore/Kuechly at 17 and then trade down out of 21- especially if Tannehill is on the board (Browns draft at 22, so presumably someone would want to trade up to that spot)

Dan
04-25-2012, 01:42 PM
Kirkpatrick will be there when the Bengals pick but I don't really want him, especially not at 17.

The others might be gone. I'm hearing the Bengals really like Courtney Upshaw.

I'd still love to take one of Barron/Floyd/DeCastro/Gilmore/Kuechly at 17 and then trade down out of 21- especially if Tannehill is on the board (Browns draft at 22, so presumably someone would want to trade up to that spot)

Bills and Dolphins are supposedly interested in Tannehill too. In a way, I'm kinda hoping the Browns trade up with the Bengals (at 17) to get him. I think Tannehill will be a bust, or at least need serious time to develop, which makes the Browns less competitive now and maybe down the line. And we get some of their picks to boot.

The trade I think would be Bengals 17 and a 5th rounder for Browns 22 and 2nd rounder this year and a 3rd rounder next year. That way they ensure they get their man.

bucksfan2
04-25-2012, 02:21 PM
Bills and Dolphins are supposedly interested in Tannehill too. In a way, I'm kinda hoping the Browns trade up with the Bengals (at 17) to get him. I think Tannehill will be a bust, or at least need serious time to develop, which makes the Browns less competitive now and maybe down the line. And we get some of their picks to boot.

The trade I think would be Bengals 17 and a 5th rounder for Browns 22 and 2nd rounder this year and a 3rd rounder next year. That way they ensure they get their man.

I actually think Tannehill to the Browns makes sesne. He is guy who needs some time to groom and with Colt at QB it could give Tannehill a season or two to learn.

The Bengals have 10 picks in this draft. The aren't going to keep 10 rookies on their 53 man roster to start the season. I think they would be in better shape to move up at some point in the draft. Get a guy you really want in teh 2nd or 3rd instead of keeping a 5th rounder that may be a longshot to make the team.

schmidty622
04-25-2012, 03:02 PM
A guy who is really growing on me is LSU WR Reuben Randell. I think he could come in and be a pretty productive #2 for us pretty quickly. Runs good routes, has good hands, just suffered from bad QB play.

I wouldn't cry if we took him at #21. My ideal situation however would be if we went something like Decastro - Kirkpatrick/Jenkins at 17 and 21, then trade back up to the top of the 2nd round with our extra picks to nab Randell in RD 2.

bucksfan2
04-25-2012, 03:33 PM
A guy who is really growing on me is LSU WR Reuben Randell. I think he could come in and be a pretty productive #2 for us pretty quickly. Runs good routes, has good hands, just suffered from bad QB play.

I wouldn't cry if we took him at #21. My ideal situation however would be if we went something like Decastro - Kirkpatrick/Jenkins at 17 and 21, then trade back up to the top of the 2nd round with our extra picks to nab Randell in RD 2.

Its a deep CB class and the Bengals need to come out with one of them. I wouldn't mind them G and WR in the first, but the thing is DeCastro and Floyd really are the only two that scream out "pick me" and both could be gone. Glenn and any WR could be a risk, one not worth taking when there is more talent available.

If they trade down I want it to be for next year's draft. They currently are in a great position with 10 draft picks in this years draft, if you play it right you can continue to hold your great position in drafts, a la Pats. I wouldn't have a problem with them passing on a CB in the 1st and then moving early into the 2nd and picking Jenkins. If you could walk out of the 1st round with two of Glenn, Flyod, or DeCastro, a character flag in Jenkins is much more acceptable.

TeamSelig
04-25-2012, 11:08 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with them passing on a CB in the 1st and then moving early into the 2nd and picking Jenkins. If you could walk out of the 1st round with two of Glenn, Flyod, or DeCastro, a character flag in Jenkins is much more acceptable.

Agreed.

LoganBuck
04-26-2012, 07:13 AM
Troubling
Joe Reedy ‏ @joereedy

19. RT @MooCowTown @joereedy if DeCastro is there, do you take him ahead of Kirkpatrick?>I would but that's not the way the team will

RiverRat13
04-26-2012, 08:09 AM
I'm starting to worry that Reedy is right and the Bengals will end up with Kirkpatrick and Upshaw in Round 1. Lombardi of the NFL Network also has Upshaw at 21 and says the Bengals might be the only team that has him with a 1st round grade.

bucksfan2
04-26-2012, 08:33 AM
I'm starting to worry that Reedy is right and the Bengals will end up with Kirkpatrick and Upshaw in Round 1. Lombardi of the NFL Network also has Upshaw at 21 and says the Bengals might be the only team that has him with a 1st round grade.

There are too many draft pundits that really don't know what individual team needs. They also don't know who a team has rated high and who a team doesn't. I think with this draft the Bengals are a wild card because they really could go anywhere with the exception on QB. I also think that they have become more competent in drafting over the past few years, even more so with Lewis, Gruden, and Zimmer on the staff.

RiverRat13
04-26-2012, 08:41 AM
There are too many draft pundits that really don't know what individual team needs. They also don't know who a team has rated high and who a team doesn't. I think with this draft the Bengals are a wild card because they really could go anywhere with the exception on QB. I also think that they have become more competent in drafting over the past few years, even more so with Lewis, Gruden, and Zimmer on the staff.

Reedy is the Bengals beat guy so I am guessing his comments have some truth in basis. Lombardi was a former NFL GM with plenty of connections. Those two aren't draft pundits.