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View Full Version : name your future Reds infield



icehole3
03-05-2012, 07:57 PM
3B - Cozart
SS - Gregorius
2B - Hamilton
1B - Soto

not sure what year, but after seeing the play Gregorius made today Im sold, he made an all star play up the middle today that looked like Ozzie Smith.

dougdirt
03-05-2012, 08:02 PM
1B - Unknown. I don't trust any of the minor league guys yet to pencil them in.
2B - Cozart
SS - Gregorius
3B - Unknown. See first base.

Scrap Irony
03-05-2012, 08:38 PM
1B Lutz
2B Hamilton
SS Gregorius
3B Vidal

Two of the four will be All Stars. (Just can't decide who those two will be.)

Vottomatic
03-05-2012, 08:41 PM
HRod got a hit today too.

Yeah, not saying they're as good as BP and Votto, but we have guys who can play that we might want to consider moving on with and staying young and cheap. Then use the money for pitching.

mth123
03-05-2012, 09:31 PM
Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Rolen

The future is now!!!

Seriously,

Votto
H-Rod
Cozart
Francisco, Vidal

mattfeet
03-05-2012, 09:58 PM
Yea, Gregorius looked SICK today at SS. That was a Top-10 play if I've ever seen one.

-Matt

corkedbat
03-05-2012, 10:12 PM
2014, as of now:

1B Soto/Lutz
2B HRod/Perez
SS Gregorius/Cozart
3B Vidal/Buckley
LF YRod/Phipps
CF Hamilton/LaMarre
RF Bruce/Waldrop
CA Mesaraco/Barnhardt

Just Missed: Wright, Greene, Duran, Rosa, Fleury

757690
03-05-2012, 10:34 PM
The Reds are going to sign either Votto or Phillips long term, so either first or second will be one of those for awhile, and not a prospect. Just saying.

PuffyPig
03-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Cozart at third?

You want a hiter at third.

The jury is still out whether he can hit enough to play SS.

corkedbat
03-05-2012, 11:13 PM
The Reds are going to sign either Votto or Phillips long term, so either first or second will be one of those for awhile, and not a prospect. Just saying.

They will try their level best to sign both, but fail. I think that Phillips won't sign for what the Reds are comfortable offering him. I don't believe Votto will sign w/o testing the market or a contract larger than the Reds can afford and remain competitive. The "roster" I posted above is w/o any future trades or signings. If neither Votto or Phillips are signed, others will be.

dfs
03-05-2012, 11:48 PM
I'm honestly surprised anybody would think the reds are going to sign Phillips at this point. The time for that has come and gone.

RedlegJake
03-06-2012, 12:42 AM
I think the Reds lose out on Votto simply because they didn't get him re-signed this off season. Because he is going to have a completely utterly sick season that prices him beyond their reach. The guy is just entering his prime years - the past two seasons have just been a warm-up. I really believe that. By the end of 2012 he'll be commanding a contract in the $25 million a year neighborhood over 8 years - something the Reds can't touch. 7 and 20 sticks hard and I think that won't be enough. The opportunity for Phillips has come and gone, imo. I'm not so sure signing him to more than 1 or 2 years is a really smart move anyway - there are decent alternatives in the pipeline for BP, the Reds may need a stopgap for a year is all. You can't really replace a Votto, though. The guy is OPSing .955 for his career. Perez topped that barely once in his entire career. I'd like to see him stay but the Reds will likely have to be smart and put the money they won't be paying him and BP and Arroyo into their starting pitching and keeping their other young stars together and fill the holes.

I like Cozart at SS (and in the 2 spot) and can't wait for the season to get going so he can shut up the nay sayers.
I like Gregorious, too, eventually the Reds will trade one of them. I can't really predict which. Rodriguez at second -the kid is a star and will make us remember BP fondly but without any regrets IF he can screw his head on straight. Soto will get his shot at first but the less flashy but steadier Lutz might end up Hal Morris'ing him out of the job. I don't think Francisco will stick just because he never saw a pitch he didn't think was a strike - even when they bounce first, Frazier might get traded before Francisco flops completely because he sure seems to get no love so I bet Dave Vidal ends up sneaking into the job and doing a good Gene Freese-ish type of job there.

Vottomatic
03-06-2012, 09:44 AM
They will try their level best to sign both, but fail. I think that Phillips won't sign for what the Reds are comfortable offering him. I don't believe Votto will sign w/o testing the market or a contract larger than the Reds can afford and remain competitive. The "roster" I posted above is w/o any future trades or signings. If neither Votto or Phillips are signed, others will be.

To add to your comments. If the minor leaguers really take some improved steps this season, the Reds might be even more willing to move on without Votto and BPhil, knowing they have some studs coming behind them.

I still say the team needs to stay cheap and concentrate on spending money on pitching. Pitching wins championships.

_Sir_Charles_
03-06-2012, 11:36 AM
Cozart at third?

You want a hiter at third.

The jury is still out whether he can hit enough to play SS.

why is this? I've never bought into that notion of certain positions should be better HITTERS than others. When they're at the position, it's the defense that should matter most. If you carry a weaker hitting 3b, you can make that up by having a better hitter than you'd normally have at a typically weaker hitting position. But regardless, it just seems odd to me to say that x doesn't hit enough to play y position. In my eyes, he needs to hit well enough to play at the majors...period. Regardless of position. He also needs to field his position at least as good as average, regardless of what he hits. If a guy can't field, I don't want him attempting it at the major league level.

WildcatFan
03-06-2012, 12:04 PM
Let's go off the beaten path here:

1B HankRod
2B Hamilton
SS Gregorius
3B Soto

I wouldn't put a nickel on that coming true, but that would be a very interesting infield.

RedsManRick
03-06-2012, 12:25 PM
why is this? I've never bought into that notion of certain positions should be better HITTERS than others. When they're at the position, it's the defense that should matter most. If you carry a weaker hitting 3b, you can make that up by having a better hitter than you'd normally have at a typically weaker hitting position. But regardless, it just seems odd to me to say that x doesn't hit enough to play y position. In my eyes, he needs to hit well enough to play at the majors...period. Regardless of position. He also needs to field his position at least as good as average, regardless of what he hits. If a guy can't field, I don't want him attempting it at the major league level.

It's about availability. It's much harder (and much more expensive) to find a good hitting, capable fielding CF than 3B.

That said, I'm with you generally -- the overall priority should be total production. How that production is generated should be a secondary consideration.

If Cozart can be something like Edwin Encarnacion with good defense, that's a solid 3B.

PuffyPig
03-06-2012, 12:44 PM
why is this? I've never bought into that notion of certain positions should be better HITTERS than others. When they're at the position, it's the defense that should matter most. If you carry a weaker hitting 3b, you can make that up by having a better hitter than you'd normally have at a typically weaker hitting position. But regardless, it just seems odd to me to say that x doesn't hit enough to play y position. In my eyes, he needs to hit well enough to play at the majors...period. Regardless of position. He also needs to field his position at least as good as average, regardless of what he hits. If a guy can't field, I don't want him attempting it at the major league level.

The ability to field is less important at certain postions.

At SS it's harder to find good hitters who can also field. It's a trade off, but you'll be better off sacrificing some offense at such a premium defensive position.

At third, it's much easier to find players who can mash and play an acceptable level of defense. Cozart, even if he brings good defense to the position, who be a well below average thirdbaseman when considering in his hitting.

It's why drafting Gordon Beckham was under such scrutiny. If he could stay at SS, he was a good pick, even a great pick. But once it became clear that he couldn't stick at SS (and I think at draft time it was clear), it was, IMO, a poor selection.

I'd say that the notion that some postions need to field better than others has been around as long as baseball itself.

Benihana
03-06-2012, 12:55 PM
Let's go off the beaten path here:

1B HankRod
2B Hamilton
SS Gregorius
3B Soto

I wouldn't put a nickel on that coming true, but that would be a very interesting infield.

HankRod is much more likely to play 3B than Soto, given their fielding abilities.

I'd say beginning in 2015:

1B (Blank) although Soto may man 1B for a year or two if/when Votto leaves. I'd like to see the Reds get a masher in the draft as their long term solution.
2B Cozart
SS Gregorius
3B Francisco (although this could also be filled via this year's draft. David Vidal and Gabriel Rosa could also be sleepers for this come 2015)

Candidates for the corner spots in this year's draft include:

Carlos Correa (3B)
Joey Gallo (1B)
Victor Roache (1B)
Addison Russell (3B)

_Sir_Charles_
03-06-2012, 02:29 PM
The ability to field is less important at certain postions.

At SS it's harder to find good hitters who can also field. It's a trade off, but you'll be better off sacrificing some offense at such a premium defensive position.

At third, it's much easier to find players who can mash and play an acceptable level of defense. Cozart, even if he brings good defense to the position, who be a well below average thirdbaseman when considering in his hitting.

It's why drafting Gordon Beckham was under such scrutiny. If he could stay at SS, he was a good pick, even a great pick. But once it became clear that he couldn't stick at SS (and I think at draft time it was clear), it was, IMO, a poor selection.

I'd say that the notion that some postions need to field better than others has been around as long as baseball itself.

While I agree that at some positions, the quality of defense isn't as important as others. But I don't think 3B is one of them. Personally, I think there are only 2 spots where I'm really willing to sacrifice some defense in exchange for hitting. 1b and lf. Everywhere else, I want AT LEAST mlb average defenders. If you can't field your position, I'm trading your butt to DH someplace. If you're a player with limited speed/mobility then LF or 1b is where I'm putting you IF ANYWHERE. 3b requires quick feet, quick reactions and a strong arm...that isn't someplace I'm willing to skimp. Weak arm, 1b or lf (possibly 2b, but I'd be very hesitant). Slow feet, 1b or lf or rf, but only rf if you've got a strong arm to offset the slow feet.

It's actually kind of funny, Dusty was quoted just yesterday that fits this question...." “We stress defense all the time,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “Everybody can get better on defense. Defense is work. Hitting is fun.” If you've got a kid who's a powerhouse with the stick...you should have somebody working his tail off to improve his defense to at least MLB average in terms of quality.

PuffyPig
03-06-2012, 02:59 PM
While I agree that at some positions, the quality of defense isn't as important as others. But I don't think 3B is one of them. Personally, I think there are only 2 spots where I'm really willing to sacrifice some defense in exchange for hitting. 1b and lf. Everywhere else, I want AT LEAST mlb average defenders.


There area a number of HOF thirdbaseman who weren't "above average fielders". Harmon Killebrew comes to mind, though he eventually moved to first.

I'd sacrifice defence for hitting at any position if the difference was big enough to make up the difference.

Cozart might be a great SS with a 675 OPS and good defense. He'd make a poor thirdbaseman with a .675 OPS and good defense. Better to trade him if we had a better SS than waste him (and turn him into a marginal 3B). I'm glad the the Reds turned Stillwell into Danny Jackson than the worse hitting 3B in the league.

_Sir_Charles_
03-06-2012, 03:31 PM
There area a number of HOF thirdbaseman who weren't "above average fielders". Harmon Killebrew comes to mind, though he eventually moved to first.

I'd sacrifice defence for hitting at any position if the difference was big enough to make up the difference.

Cozart might be a great SS with a 675 OPS and good defense. He'd make a poor thirdbaseman with a .675 OPS and good defense. Better to trade him if we had a better SS than waste him (and turn him into a marginal 3B). I'm glad the the Reds turned Stillwell into Danny Jackson than the worse hitting 3B in the league.

You have to remember, I'm talking about the prospect stage of a player. When it's clear that they've got a legitimate bat but suspect defense. I'd be putting in every ounce of effort in order to improve that young man's defensive game. If it's clear he's not going to "get it" defensively, then I move on to another prospect.

PuffyPig
03-06-2012, 03:56 PM
You have to remember, I'm talking about the prospect stage of a player. When it's clear that they've got a legitimate bat but suspect defense. I'd be putting in every ounce of effort in order to improve that young man's defensive game. If it's clear he's not going to "get it" defensively, then I move on to another prospect.

What does that have to do with Cozart being a viable alternative at 3B?

And of course players should do whatever they can to improve every aspect of their game.

_Sir_Charles_
03-06-2012, 05:51 PM
What does that have to do with Cozart being a viable alternative at 3B?

And of course players should do whatever they can to improve every aspect of their game.

I wasn't referring only to the Cozart to 3rd scenario. That comment only brought it to my attention. It's not a big deal Puffy. It's just one of those things that's always bugged me. It's almost as if certain positions on the field have become stereotypes of what we expect from them and I can't stand that way of thinking. Mashers belong in RF and 1b, weak hitters with good gloves go to short, that sort of garbage.

PuffyPig
03-06-2012, 07:58 PM
Mashers belong in RF and 1b, weak hitters with good gloves go to short, that sort of garbage.

The point is, it's not garbage.

If a weak bat can't play SS or Catcher, he can't play in the major leagues.

If a masher can play SS they'll let him play SS. It's just that few can.