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LoganBuck
03-19-2012, 08:16 AM
I think it's going to be fun to watch Sullinger and Gates in the paint.

Quite frankly I think Gates will out play Sullinger. Sullinger is a much better offensive player, but I think Gates will cancel Sullinger out. This matchup is about the other guys. Both teams are capable of good defense, and both teams are capable of playing great/terrible offense. Anyone that claims that one team has an edge is fooling themselves. It will be a fun game to watch, but why did this have to be the late game?:thumbdown:

bucksfan2
03-19-2012, 08:18 AM
Ohio State agreed to play it, but it was also because it was organized by a third party. I don't think Ohio State would have even agreed to playing Cincinnati at home that year in a normally-scheduled game.

Why is that? Why has it been decades since UC and OSU played each other? I know you hvae more insight than I do.

RiverRat13
03-19-2012, 08:21 AM
Why is that? Why has it been decades since UC and OSU played each other? I know you hvae more insight than I do.

I think some duffel bags might have something to do with it.

Caveat Emperor
03-19-2012, 08:25 AM
Why is that? Why has it been decades since UC and OSU played each other? I know you hvae more insight than I do.

Ohio State fans will tell you it has to do with unpleasantness over recruiting.

Suffice it to say, there aren't many people in the AD's office in Clifton -- past or present -- that buy that excuse.

RiverRat13
03-19-2012, 08:35 AM
Ohio State fans will tell you it has to do with unpleasantness over recruiting.

Suffice it to say, there aren't many people in the AD's office in Clifton -- past or present -- that buy that excuse.

OSU isn't keen on playing any in-state school that could beat the Bucks. I think that's the bottom line.

bucksfan2
03-19-2012, 08:36 AM
Quite frankly I think Gates will out play Sullinger. Sullinger is a much better offensive player, but I think Gates will cancel Sullinger out. This matchup is about the other guys. Both teams are capable of good defense, and both teams are capable of playing great/terrible offense. Anyone that claims that one team has an edge is fooling themselves. It will be a fun game to watch, but why did this have to be the late game?:thumbdown:

Oh I disagree. Sullinger struggles with bigger guys and shot blockers, neither of which are Gates. Gates is the type of player that who Sullinger can get into and get his shots off over. When he catches the ball low on the block he is very good at making those buckets.

I think there will be some interesting matchups, how will Jackson and Parker defend Thomas? I think he is a matchup nightmare because of his ability to hit an outside shot and also rebound on the offensive end. I want to see what kind of pressure Craft dials up on Cash.

Finally I think a lot will come down to how the game is called. Will the officials let the players bang or will they call it close? A close called game will benefit OSU more because Sullinger will get the foul calls against Gates. A brusing game like UC played last night will be in UC's favor if they can get Sullinger frustrated.

Coming from an OSU fan, they are playing at a high level right now. Ever since the comeback against MSU at MSU they have been playing some very good basketball. Hopefully they continue their roll and not peak in the Sweet 16 like they have in the past 2 years.

texasdave
03-19-2012, 10:29 AM
Just an FYI. Sweet 16 television schedule.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/sweet-schedule-and-tv-times/article_d14767f6-71ac-11e1-b306-001a4bcf6878.html

traderumor
03-19-2012, 10:34 AM
Quick scouting report on UC--iffy outside shooting, very active and tough on the defensive end, a lot of scoring on runouts started by defensive plays. Gates is going to need help guarding Sullinger, he better not be a non-factor in this game like he was last night. Buford and Thomas look like they create huge matchup problems with the 4 guard lineup. Thoughts?

traderumor
03-19-2012, 10:36 AM
Just an FYI. Sweet 16 television schedule.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/sweet-schedule-and-tv-times/article_d14767f6-71ac-11e1-b306-001a4bcf6878.htmlAnd I assume these times are CST.

texasdave
03-19-2012, 10:40 AM
And I assume these times are CST.

St. Louis paper. I believe you are correct.

Caveat Emperor
03-19-2012, 12:16 PM
Quick scouting report on UC--iffy outside shooting, very active and tough on the defensive end, a lot of scoring on runouts started by defensive plays. Gates is going to need help guarding Sullinger, he better not be a non-factor in this game like he was last night. Buford and Thomas look like they create huge matchup problems with the 4 guard lineup. Thoughts?

If the refs call this game like a Big East game, I'd give Cincinnati a decent shot at the upset. They're an incredibly physical and mentally tough defense. All four guards have quick hands and swat at every ball within arm's reach. It leads to lots of turnovers and disrupts offensive sets. On the block, Gates looks to physically dominate the low post defensively and works to keep his man away from the hoop to allow for a collapsing double team. The defense is capable of generating lots of stops and creating easy buckets in transition.

If the refs call a tight game, it's going to be problematic for UC because they're very susceptible to cheap fouls coming off their aggressive defense.

Roy Tucker
03-19-2012, 12:29 PM
Oh I disagree. Sullinger struggles with bigger guys and shot blockers, neither of which are Gates. Gates is the type of player that who Sullinger can get into and get his shots off over. When he catches the ball low on the block he is very good at making those buckets.

I think there will be some interesting matchups, how will Jackson and Parker defend Thomas? I think he is a matchup nightmare because of his ability to hit an outside shot and also rebound on the offensive end. I want to see what kind of pressure Craft dials up on Cash.

Finally I think a lot will come down to how the game is called. Will the officials let the players bang or will they call it close? A close called game will benefit OSU more because Sullinger will get the foul calls against Gates. A brusing game like UC played last night will be in UC's favor if they can get Sullinger frustrated.

Coming from an OSU fan, they are playing at a high level right now. Ever since the comeback against MSU at MSU they have been playing some very good basketball. Hopefully they continue their roll and not peak in the Sweet 16 like they have in the past 2 years.

This is a good take on the game.

I agree that Gates and Sullinger are the same kind of player. It will be a race to see who gets who in foul trouble first. One-on-one, Sullinger has that little right-handed baby hook that he can get over Gates all day. But UC plays good help defense and it won't just be Gates that he'll have to be concerned with. Gates has the senior maturity now (I never though I'd say that) so he doesn't get fazed much now. But Sullinger also looked more mature against Gonzaga than I've previously seen. Thomas does provide a really hard matchup for UC and I think he'll be one of the deciding factors. I think Craft will eat Wright alive but UC can mix around who plays PG and that will get mitigated.

I think both OSU and UC are playing very well. Seems that all of the tourney games I've watched the refs have let an awful lot of banging and bashing go on so it will be a lot like yesterday's games and be bruising. It's a fascinating matchup and I think it will be a very close game. Depth will be a factor too.

traderumor
03-19-2012, 12:43 PM
If the refs call this game like a Big East game, I'd give Cincinnati a decent shot at the upset. They're an incredibly physical and mentally tough defense. All four guards have quick hands and swat at every ball within arm's reach. It leads to lots of turnovers and disrupts offensive sets. On the block, Gates looks to physically dominate the low post defensively and works to keep his man away from the hoop to allow for a collapsing double team. The defense is capable of generating lots of stops and creating easy buckets in transition.

If the refs call a tight game, it's going to be problematic for UC because they're very susceptible to cheap fouls coming off their aggressive defense.I'll be happy if they just call a fair game. Don't let the big guys kill each other then call a bump out front a block. Of course, that is exactly how much of college bball is called, so I digress ;)

bucksfan2
03-19-2012, 01:52 PM
This is a good take on the game.

I agree that Gates and Sullinger are the same kind of player. It will be a race to see who gets who in foul trouble first. One-on-one, Sullinger has that little right-handed baby hook that he can get over Gates all day. But UC plays good help defense and it won't just be Gates that he'll have to be concerned with. Gates has the senior maturity now (I never though I'd say that) so he doesn't get fazed much now. But Sullinger also looked more mature against Gonzaga than I've previously seen. Thomas does provide a really hard matchup for UC and I think he'll be one of the deciding factors. I think Craft will eat Wright alive but UC can mix around who plays PG and that will get mitigated.

I think both OSU and UC are playing very well. Seems that all of the tourney games I've watched the refs have let an awful lot of banging and bashing go on so it will be a lot like yesterday's games and be bruising. It's a fascinating matchup and I think it will be a very close game. Depth will be a factor too.

I am going to expand upon this.

When talking about Gates, Sullinger is the type of player many people hoped Gates would develop into. He has a good back to the basket as well as a face up game. He also has the ability to make tough shots and draw fouls. It also doesn't hurt that he is a top tier player and gets some help on foul calls. He struggles against bigger guys and shot blockers. He struggled against Sacre but still ended up with a nice stat line when the game ended. I like the matchup with Gates because I don't think he can guard Sully one on one. Help will need to come, most probably from Jackson, which would leave Thomas open.

I don't know if Cash has faced a on ball defender as good as Craft. An issue I have with Cash is he dribbles the ball pretty lose and high for a primary ball handler. I have a feeling Craft will drive him nuts and if I am a UC fan I would worry about that matchup. The on ball defensive pressure will high this game and I don't know how much UC has seen on that.

I think that Buford will end up on Killpatrick which is another interesting match up. I don't think Buford gets enough credit for being as good of a defender as he is. Killpatrick will need to do a good job of guarding Buford, or maybe leave him wide open becasue he tends to miss when he is wide open.

One thing that really worked against OSU that Purdue exploited was the high ball screen with a big out top. It got Sullinger on a guard and Purdue was able to keep the games close by doing that. I haven't seen UC do a whole bunch of that this season but wonder if it will be used against OSU. As of right now I like OSU's matchups better than UC's. I think UC will need to go nuts from 3 early like they did against Syracuse to win. They have a punchers chance, will come out with a lot of energy, and have been playing well as of late. As an OSU fan I don't really like the matchup because of being a fan of both, the proximinity of both schools, and having a bunch of big time UC fans as friends.

RiverRat13
03-19-2012, 02:10 PM
One thing that really worked against OSU that Purdue exploited was the high ball screen with a big out top. It got Sullinger on a guard and Purdue was able to keep the games close by doing that. I haven't seen UC do a whole bunch of that this season but wonder if it will be used against OSU. As of right now I like OSU's matchups better than UC's. I think UC will need to go nuts from 3 early like they did against Syracuse to win. They have a punchers chance, will come out with a lot of energy, and have been playing well as of late. As an OSU fan I don't really like the matchup because of being a fan of both, the proximinity of both schools, and having a bunch of big time UC fans as friends.

I think any team that faces OSU has to try to ballscreen with Sully's man. Sully has gotten a little better as OSU hedges less and plays it flat more than earlier in the year, but also Thomas gets lost as to when/where to help off of the ballscreen from the weakside.

RiverRat13
03-19-2012, 02:18 PM
Very nice article by Dan Wetzel...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=dw-wetzel_midwest_sweet_16_ohio_hatred_031912

Newport Red
03-19-2012, 02:42 PM
Very nice article by Dan Wetzel...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=dw-wetzel_midwest_sweet_16_ohio_hatred_031912

Now I know why it's THE Ohio State University.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 02:54 PM
I dont think Mick's even gonna play that much man2man bc if Gates gets in foul trouble, the game is over. I do think Gates could give Sully trouble, similar to Payne/Nix at MSU, but at the same time its a huge gamble to leave him one on one with a guy that gets to the FT line like sully does and not having any depth up front makes me think he'll go zone. I think he'll mostly use the 221 press, but not really an aggressive press thats going for steals, but more just to waste some time on the shot clock, slow the tempo, and not have to guard OH St in the half court for a full 35 seconds.

Also, if they are in man2man (and im sure they'll play it some, prob 80% zone, 20% man), JJack can not guard Thomas whatsoever. He might, be athletic enough to cover him, but hes a walking foul when he is in the game. I think Parker, despite the size difference, would have a better chance on Thomas than JJack does. I think hes a physical enough rebounder to not give up a ton of stickbacks, whereas Jackson is gonna end up leaving Thomas way too often to help/try to block shots which will give Thomas easy stickbacks and wide open 3's.

Thomas is the only poor defender on Ohio State imo, and whoever he ends up on, should have an advantage going off the dribble (i assume he'll be on Parker). I think both the Thomas/Parker and Buford/Kilpatrick matchups are actually a lot more important to who will win/lose than the Gates/Sully one, although Gates/Sullinger will get almost all of the media attention for obvious reasons.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 02:55 PM
.

Boston Red
03-19-2012, 03:01 PM
Very nice article by Dan Wetzel...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=dw-wetzel_midwest_sweet_16_ohio_hatred_031912

Good article...though this is decidedly untrue:

"Matta is otherwise a fountain of tranquility in this region. He used to coach Xavier and is still well regarded there "

Caveat Emperor
03-19-2012, 03:18 PM
Good article...though this is decidedly untrue:

"Matta is otherwise a fountain of tranquility in this region. He used to coach Xavier and is still well regarded there "

I chuckled at that.

I feel like that statement is true of Miller, but I don't here a lot of Thad fans when I'm down at Cintas.

Hoosier Red
03-19-2012, 03:20 PM
Good article...though this is decidedly untrue:

"Matta is otherwise a fountain of tranquility in this region. He used to coach Xavier and is still well regarded there "

I also found this odd.


Columbus is conservative and truly Midwestern; Cincinnati is more of a loose river town with a Southern feel.

I never found Columbus to be conservative, and there are a lot of adjectives I would come up with for Cincinnati before I reached "Loose."

Brutus
03-19-2012, 03:25 PM
Why is that? Why has it been decades since UC and OSU played each other? I know you hvae more insight than I do.

Here's an article wrote in 2006 that explains some of the history as to why they haven't played. There are some good hints as to some of the reasons...

http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/601232.html

BTW, Mick knows exactly why Ohio State won't play his program despite what he tells people publicly.

HeatherC1212
03-19-2012, 03:47 PM
I follow very little basketball through the season and don't really start paying attention to much until March Madness. I've filled out brackets just for the heck of it for the last few years. Right now, my coworker and I are leading in our work's bracket pool by four points after the first two rounds. I guess it pays to not pay as much attention to anything...well, at least for now, LOL :laugh: :thumbup:

Good job to the Ohio schools for getting four teams into the Sweet Sixteen! :D

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 03:50 PM
Here's an article wrote in 2006 that explains some of the history as to why they haven't played. There are some good hints as to some of the reasons...

http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/601232.html

BTW, Mick knows exactly why Ohio State won't play his program despite what he tells people publicly.

Want to elaborate on the bolded, seeing as that article doesn't really give a "this is the reason why" but just speculates on a multitude of reasons?

Brutus
03-19-2012, 03:58 PM
Want to elaborate on the bolded, seeing as that article doesn't really give a "this is the reason why" but just speculates on a multitude of reasons?

This part isn't in the article, but it does have to do with recruiting and despite some comments earlier in this thread to the contrary, it's legit. It has to do with Mick making some unfounded accusations toward Matta on the recruiting trail.

What's worse is that it wasn't just the accusations, but that he was spinning the accusations in recruiting toward some of the effected recruits and their parents and embellished the circumstances.

Ohio State, to this day, isn't fond of Mick's role in the Damon Flint fiasco. However, I think Matta may have seen his way past that since it doesn't impact him one way or another. However... Mick went around shooting his mouth off behind the scenes about other things, and that didn't endear himself to the Ohio State staff/administration.

WMR
03-19-2012, 04:06 PM
Vegas lines...


North Carolina 10.5 over Ohio
Kentucky 9 over Indiana
Kansas 8 over NC State
Ohio State 7.5 over Cincinnati
Baylor 6 over Xavier
Michigan State 4.5 over Louisville
Syracuse 4 over Wisconsin
Marquette 1.5 over Florida

bucksfan2
03-19-2012, 04:08 PM
If I were a betting man...........


Vegas lines...


North Carolina 10.5 over Ohio
Kentucky 9 over Indiana
Kansas 8 over NC StateOhio State 7.5 over Cincinnati
Baylor 6 over Xavier
Michigan State 4.5 over Louisville
Syracuse 4 over WisconsinMarquette 1.5 over Florida


The only one I am hesitant with is MSU and Louisville. I would take moneyline on Florida because they way they are playing. Confidence picks, using the spreads, would be 1. UK 2. UNC 3. OSU.

Hoosier Red
03-19-2012, 04:09 PM
My reticence toward betting lines continues. I think there's about a 50% chance UK wins by more than 10, 20-30% chance they win by less than 10 and a 20-30% chance IU wins outright. I guess that means the line is properly set but I wouldn't get near it with a 10 foot pole.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 04:10 PM
This part isn't in the article, but it does have to do with recruiting and despite some comments earlier in this thread to the contrary, it's legit. It has to do with Mick making some unfounded accusations toward Matta on the recruiting trail.

What's worse is that it wasn't just the accusations, but that he was spinning the accusations in recruiting toward some of the effected recruits and their parents and embellished the circumstances.

Ohio State, to this day, isn't fond of Mick's role in the Damon Flint fiasco. However, I think Matta may have seen his way past that since it doesn't impact him one way or another. However... Mick went around shooting his mouth off behind the scenes about other things, and that didn't endear himself to the Ohio State staff/administration.

So even if we buy all of that, what explains the gap between 1962 to 2005 when Mick wasnt even the HC at Cincy?

Boston Red
03-19-2012, 05:09 PM
CBS needs to bring back John Tesh to get to the heart of this matter. Go to the 40 second mark of this video where he proves he's the hard-hitting journalist necessary to cover this type of story: Louisville vs Kentucky 1983 pre-game interviews - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg3WzsFtOtE)

WMR
03-19-2012, 05:12 PM
CBS needs to bring back John Tesh to get to the heart of this matter. Go to the 40 second mark of this video where he proves he's the hard-hitting journalist necessary to cover this type of story: Louisville vs Kentucky 1983 pre-game interviews - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg3WzsFtOtE)

29-14 all-time now... be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. :D

Boston Red
03-19-2012, 05:22 PM
No matter who wins or loses, it was idiotic to not have that game played every year. Some truly epic potential battles were lost in the 70s and early 80s.

WMR
03-19-2012, 05:27 PM
No matter who wins or loses, it was idiotic to not have that game played every year. Some truly epic potential battles were lost in the 70s and early 80s.

I can see both sides. Coach Rupp believed that it would divide the state, and, in retrospect, he was right.

It was certainly very good for UL and helped them build their program even if they lose more often than not.

nmculbreth
03-19-2012, 05:27 PM
So even if we buy all of that, what explains the gap between 1962 to 2005 when Mick wasnt even the HC at Cincy?

Does it even matter?

UC doesn't need OSU. I'd rather try to set up a home an home series with a team that might open up a new recruiting area (Florida, Texas, UCLA, etc.) because playing OSU doesn't provide any more exposure than it already has.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 05:34 PM
Does it even matter?

UC doesn't need OSU. I'd rather try to set up a home an home series with a team that might open up a new recruiting area (Florida, Texas, UCLA, etc.) because playing OSU doesn't provide any more exposure than it already has.


Ahhhhhh, so now were getting somewhere and someone gives the real reason, not some b.s. cop out about Cronin saying something about Matta explaining away a 44 year gap with a whole 1 game played.


And yeah it does matter, seeing as it's gonna be a main topic of discussion that two schools with a ton of bball tradition and success, that are extremely close in proximity, somehow never ever play.

improbus
03-19-2012, 05:44 PM
:laugh: Yeah, that defense. In all seriousness, I don't think that Michigan State is as physical as the people on here make them out to be. It just seemed like they were getting called for a lot of borderline fouls (many of which were off the ball). FWIW, St. Louis shot 23 free throws and Michigan State shot 17 free throws (10 of which were in the final 75 seconds).

The games going on right now are good. Robbie Hummel is going off against Kansas. Purdue is up 36-30. Hummel has 22 points. Lehigh and Xavier are also in a close game. Cincy vs FSU just got underway as well.
This MSU team doesn't have the "unskilled bruisers" that they usually run out there, but they still can rough you up.

With that said, no one does more for their team than Green. He orchestrates everything on the floor. He is very Tim Duncan like in that way, even though he isn't quite the same level of player.

Boston Red
03-19-2012, 05:54 PM
It was certainly very good for UL and helped them build their program even if they lose more often than not.

Yeah, playing Kentucky helped build Louisville's program. :laugh: Louisville was about to qualify for their fifth Final Four in 11 years (and third in four years) by beating Kentucky that day. They've been to two in the 29 years since the series re-started the next year. Thanks for the "help".

WMR
03-19-2012, 05:57 PM
Getting the privilege of playing a team like UK home and home when you're in the Metro is a big, big deal.

Brutus
03-19-2012, 05:57 PM
So even if we buy all of that, what explains the gap between 1962 to 2005 when Mick wasnt even the HC at Cincy?

I can't explain the gap from 1962-1992, but the Damon Flint ordeal largely explains 1993-2004 (ish).

Mick Cronin was believed to be the guy that ratted out Ohio State about Flint and Ohio State was not very happy about Cincinnati's willing participation in turning it in.

Boston Red
03-19-2012, 05:57 PM
Hah, so you're being funny. Good one.

Brutus
03-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Ahhhhhh, so now were getting somewhere and someone gives the real reason, not some b.s. cop out about Cronin saying something about Matta explaining away a 44 year gap with a whole 1 game played.


And yeah it does matter, seeing as it's gonna be a main topic of discussion that two schools with a ton of bball tradition and success, that are extremely close in proximity, somehow never ever play.

It's not BS. I'm not guessing on this.

Caveat Emperor
03-19-2012, 06:16 PM
Getting the privilege of playing a team like UK home and home when you're in the Metro is a big, big deal.

At the end of the day, they're both taxpayer-funded institutions. It shouldn't be a "privilege" for one to play the other, it should be a requirement in order to keep as much revenue in-state as possible.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 06:18 PM
It's not BS. I'm not guessing on this.

Can you at least link an article about it? and like I said, it still does nothing to explain the pre Cronin era whatsoever.

traderumor
03-19-2012, 06:24 PM
I can see both sides. Coach Rupp believed that it would divide the state, and, in retrospect, he was right.

It was certainly very good for UL and helped them build their program even if they lose more often than not.Louisville was more relevant before playing UK, in the height of the Denny Crum era. UK and/or Patino hasn't exactly raised them to prominence.

dabvu2498
03-19-2012, 06:24 PM
Getting the privilege of playing a team like UK home and home when you're in the Metro is a big, big deal.

Stop.

UK-UL home and home every year is good for both programs.

Brutus
03-19-2012, 06:25 PM
Can you at least link an article about it? and like I said, it still does nothing to explain the pre Cronin era whatsoever.

As far as I know, it doesn't exist in print. My perspective on the situation comes right from people involved when it all happened.

The involved parties... Thad, John, Mick, Tony, Yancy, etc... they all know what was said and such. If it existed in print, I'd gladly link you to an article.

Anyhow, as I said, I can't really explain why from 1962-1992 nothing happened. However, from 1993 onward, there have been plenty of reasons.

This lays out the timeline from 1993 to present a little better:

http://www.alongtheolentangy.com/2012/3/19/2883803/fifty-years-in-the-making-ohio-state-cincinnati

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 06:35 PM
As far as I know, it doesn't exist in print. My perspective on the situation comes right from people involved when it all happened.

The involved parties... Thad, John, Mick, Tony, Yancy, etc... they all know what was said and such. If it existed in print, I'd gladly link you to an article.
[/URL]

Dont really know any other way to say this. If that happened, I have a hard time buying that not one reporter had a source or sources to cover the story and run with it. It would have been a huge story for any journalist, bc its juicy involving national programs and a highly rated recruit. I have a hard time buying that it happened and not one reporter managed to get the inside scoop and print it, but somehow a fan on a message board has inside knowledge of the story.

Brutus
03-19-2012, 07:02 PM
Dont really know any other way to say this. If that happened, I have a hard time buying that not one reporter had a source or sources to cover the story and run with it. It would have been a huge story for any journalist, bc its juicy involving national programs and a highly rated recruit. I have a hard time buying that it happened and not one reporter managed to get the inside scoop and print it, but somehow a fan on a message board has inside knowledge of the story.

I'm not a fan. I was covering it for a living (hence the articles I've linked to you). My perspective on this isn't as fan gossip. It's literally having seen and heard things while covering the recruiting process at the time all of it occurred. And for the record, I know several other journalists that are aware of the situation. Most of those recruiting stories are never put in print, though, for many, many reasons.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 07:06 PM
The person with the name Brutus the Pimp, is not a fan. Ok, If you say so

Brutus
03-19-2012, 07:10 PM
The person with the name Brutus the Pimp, is not a fan. Ok, If you say so

You're not listening to what I'm telling you.

Did you see the bylines on the articles that I linked? Notice anything in common?

One was from 2006, one was from today. Now put two and two together and try to figure out why I picked the ones I did...

If you want to haggle over whether you think I'm a fan, you're missing the big picture of how and why I know the things I do. Do some research. You might figure it out.

improbus
03-19-2012, 07:19 PM
What would OSU stand to gain from playing UC? OSU thinks of themselves as the superior athletic school in the state and they don't want to do anything to jeopardize that in a sport where they will probably lose a number of these games (unlike football). It seems like a simple PR decision.

Now, the incidents mentioned in the articles Brutus referenced certainly have not helped matters. However, OSU has always seen itself as the big brother in the state and it won't do anything to lessen that claim.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 07:25 PM
You're not listening to what I'm telling you.

Did you see the bylines on the articles that I linked? Notice anything in common?

One was from 2006, one was from today. Now put two and two together and try to figure out why I picked the ones I did...

If you want to haggle over whether you think I'm a fan, you're missing the big picture of how and why I know the things I do. Do some research. You might figure it out.

I didn't realize that writing articles about OSU excluded someone with a SN of BrutusthePimp from being an OSU fan.....now put two and two together and process that one.

And again, like i said, that would have been a huge story that someone, maybe even you at the time, could have written. You didnt, for whatever reason that may have been. No one else wrote it either afaik. Without someone actually reporting on whatever direct comments were made, just throwing out "I heard blah blah" and then not even saying directly what "blah blah" you heard is pretty weak, to then come back years later and cite it as some definitive truth with out even saying what was said.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 07:29 PM
What would OSU stand to gain from playing UC? OSU thinks of themselves as the superior athletic school in the state and they don't want to do anything to jeopardize that in a sport where they will probably lose a number of these games (unlike football). It seems like a simple PR decision.


So again, this sounds a lot more like the real reason.

Brutus
03-19-2012, 07:38 PM
I didn't realize that writing articles about OSU excluded someone with a SN of BrutusthePimp from being an OSU fan.....now put two and two together and process that one.

And again, like i said, that would have been a huge story that someone, maybe even you at the time, could have written. You didnt, for whatever reason that may have been. No one else wrote it either afaik. Without someone actually reporting on whatever direct comments were made, just throwing out "I heard blah blah" and then not even saying directly what "blah blah" you heard is pretty weak, to then come back years later and cite it as some definitive truth with out even saying what was said.

Why don't you stop to consider how I knew such things, figure out where I got the information from, and then perhaps it will make more sense why myself or others wouldn't put it in print. Do you think it might have something to do with off-the-record conversations or preserving relationships?

It would have made for a nice gossip column, but there wasn't much that could have been done with the story. Even if the story wound up to be bigger, i.e. uncovering there was some truth to the allegations (which were, in my opinion, petty to begin with), the best result for anyone in that situation was alienating all of their best contacts. Does that sound like a winning proposition?

In my experience, almost never does a journalist write about recruiting allegations. When the Chicago Sun Times wrote about Anthony Davis' alleged $200,000 payment, it was one of the few times something I've heard from reputable people was actually reported. Usually reporters stay far away from that stuff because of the sensitive nature of the subject.

I find it rather narrow-minded that you're basically suggesting that because of my screen name, "Brutus the Pimp," being suggestive that I follow Ohio State, thereby you're ignoring the possibility what I'm saying has merit.

The most ironic thing about it all: I covered Ohio State for six years, but some of my best information about this came from my time as the co-publisher of Bearcat Insider covering Cincinnati in 2005-2006.

If you want to dismiss everything I'm saying because I elected to have a play-on-words with Ohio State's mascot, do so at your prerogative. However, seems like a pretty silly reason to discredit something.

Brutus
03-19-2012, 07:40 PM
So again, this sounds a lot more like the real reason.

It sounds like it's what you want most to hear.

texasdave
03-19-2012, 07:43 PM
All three teams that are wearing those hideous Adidas uniforms are still around. Baylor, Cincy and Louisville. I think.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 07:48 PM
I'm not a fan.

But you are. That's the whole reason why I brought it up.


Why don't you stop to consider how I knew such things, figure out where I got the information from, and then perhaps it will make more sense why myself or others wouldn't put it in print. Do you think it might have something to do with off-the-record conversations or preserving relationships?


It would have made for a nice gossip column, but there wasn't much that could have been done with the story. Even if the story wound up to be bigger, i.e. uncovering there was some truth to the allegations (which were, in my opinion, petty to begin with), the best result for anyone in that situation was alienating all of their best contacts. Does that sound like a winning proposition?

In my experience, almost never does a journalist write about recruiting allegations. When the Chicago Sun Times wrote about Anthony Davis' alleged $200,000 payment, it was one of the few times something I've heard from reputable people was actually reported. Usually reporters stay far away from that stuff because of the sensitive nature of the subject.

I find it rather narrow-minded that you're basically suggesting that because of my screen name, "Brutus the Pimp," being suggestive that I follow Ohio State, thereby you're ignoring the possibility what I'm saying has merit.

The most ironic thing about it all: I covered Ohio State for six years, but some of my best information about this came from my time as the co-publisher of Bearcat Insider covering Cincinnati in 2005-2006.

If you want to dismiss everything I'm saying because I elected to have a play-on-words with Ohio State's mascot, do so at your prerogative. However, seems like a pretty silly reason to discredit something.

If its off the record convos, why are you referencing them on a message board? More importantly, the fact you say it would've made a "nice gossip column" really gives a ton of credence to what you are claiming. yes lolwiki, but



A gossip columnist is someone who writes a gossip column in a newspaper or magazine, especially a gossip magazine. Gossip columns are material written in a light, informal style, which relates the gossip columnist's opinions about the personal lives or conduct of celebrities from show business (motion picture movie stars, theater, and television actors), politicians, professional sports stars, and other wealthy people or public figures. Some gossip columnists broadcast segments on radio and television.

The columns mix factual material on arrests, divorces, marriages and pregnancies, obtained from official records, with more speculative gossip stories, rumors, and innuendo about romantic relationships, affairs, and purported personal problems.

Gossip columnists have a reciprocal relationship with the celebrities whose private lives are splashed about in the gossip column's pages. Of course, some gossip columnists can engage in borderline defamatory conduct, spreading innuendo about alleged immoral or illegal conduct that can injure celebrities' reputations. Yet at the same time, gossip columnists are also an important part of the "Star System" publicity machine that turns movie actors and musicians into celebrities and superstars that are the objects of the public's obsessive attention and interest. The publicity agents of celebrities often provide or "leak" information or rumors to gossip columnists to publicize the celebrity or their projects, or to counteract "bad press" that has recently surfaced about their conduct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossip_columnist

Again, as I said you're a fan. You are and thats ok. It's a pretty simple and logical inference that someone with the name BrutusThePimp as a name and has a high # of posts in the OSU football and basketball threads is a fan of the team. You also happen to write articles about OSU. That's cool too. It's not that difficult to follow.

Brutus
03-19-2012, 08:05 PM
But you are. That's the whole reason why I brought it up.



If its off the record convos, why are you referencing them on a message board? More importantly, the fact you say it would've made a "nice gossip column" really gives a ton of credence to what you are claiming. yes lolwiki, but



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossip_columnist

Again, as I said you're a fan. You are and thats ok. It's a pretty simple and logical inference that someone with the name BrutusThePimp as a name and has a high # of posts in the OSU football and basketball threads is a fan of the team. You also happen to write articles about OSU. That's cool too. It's not that difficult to follow.

Yet instead of debating whether what I'm saying is true, you're spending your time worrying about whether or not I'm a fan. You familiar with a red herring?

The issue isn't whether I'm a fan, the issue is why Thad Matta elects not to play Mick Cronin's team(s). You continue to harp on this subject of whether I'm a fan when it has no bearing on the actual issue. So why are you so hellbent on bringing it up?

I promise my knowledge on this isn't gossip. My point is that these recruiting allegations would never be confirmed publicly [emphasis added on publicly], so reporting it was pointless. As to why I'm bringing it up now, it's been five years since it all happened, so citing it on a message board isn't really causing a stir.

You can choose to believe me or not. While you're busying trying to argue a pointless, irrelevant topic, I'm trying to stick to the actual subject. All you're doing is trying to discredit something on the grounds of a meaningless fact.

My perspective on this has been confirmed by people as close as it gets to the situation. Again, you can sit here and waste our time with your red herrings, but it's totally irrelevant. I've already removed the anonymity from what I'm saying and given you an opportunity to search who I am and why I might know things. I'm not just some anonymous person on a message board that can make things up while hiding behind said anonymity. I've removed that from the equation for you, and yet here you are challenging me about a screename. It's really silly if you get right down to it.

I'm not anonymous and I'm putting my name out there to show you I am fully behind what I'm saying. If you want to combat that based on having "brutus" in my name, then clearly you have nothing better to debate.

SeeinRed
03-19-2012, 08:07 PM
I hate to be "that guy," but I think this conversation would be better off in the UC or OSU basketball threads, or not happening all together. Its been done before, and is not really related to the NCAA tournament, but rather the two schools themselves.

Brutus
03-19-2012, 08:10 PM
I hate to be "that guy," but I think this conversation would be better off in the UC or OSU basketball threads, or not happening all together. Its been done before, and is not really related to the NCAA tournament, but rather the two schools themselves.

If you hate to be that guy, then don't be that guy. Ohio State and Cincinnati are playing one another in the NCAA Tournament, so I think it's completely relevant. I'll never understand why people that are taking no part in the conversation take it upon themselves to complain about a conversation they don't care about.

Besides, there aren't any tournament games until Thursday, so it's doubtful there would be too much activity until then.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 08:15 PM
If you hate to be that guy, then don't be that guy. Ohio State and Cincinnati are playing one another in the NCAA Tournament, so I think it's completely relevant. I'll never understand why people that are taking no part in the conversation take it upon themselves to complain about a conversation they don't care about.

Besides, there aren't any tournament games until Thursday, so it's doubtful there would be too much activity until then.

uh oh, we agree on something

improbus
03-19-2012, 08:17 PM
As far as I know, it doesn't exist in print. My perspective on the situation comes right from people involved when it all happened.

The involved parties... Thad, John, Mick, Tony, Yancy, etc... they all know what was said and such. If it existed in print, I'd gladly link you to an article.

Anyhow, as I said, I can't really explain why from 1962-1992 nothing happened. However, from 1993 onward, there have been plenty of reasons.

This lays out the timeline from 1993 to present a little better:

http://www.alongtheolentangy.com/2012/3/19/2883803/fifty-years-in-the-making-ohio-state-cincinnati
That was a great story. I love the idea of seeing Huggins at OSU.

ervinsm84
03-19-2012, 08:19 PM
And again, this is the thing. And this is gonna end up coming off like a personal attack, but its not exactly like SBnation is the most objective places for any type of reporting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/17/AR2010121706202.html


Most sports reporters cover games from the press box. The perch typically provides a view of the entire field of play and quick access to post-game press conferences with coaches and players.

SB Nation bloggers prefer the bleachers.

It's a fitting seat for the legion of team die-hards powered by a common blogging software. The writers have no qualms about marrying fandom with fact-finding as they report on their favorite professional and college teams.

"From an editorial perspective, we put all of our emphasis on being by, of and for the fan," said chief executive Jim Bankoff. "Unlike a lot of other outlets, we will embrace bias and check objectivity at the door. We believe that spectator sports are about being subjective, not objective."

Brutus
03-19-2012, 08:32 PM
And again, this is the thing. And this is gonna end up coming off like a personal attack, but its not exactly like SBnation is the most objective places for any type of reporting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/17/AR2010121706202.html

I don't consider it a personal attack, though I do consider it another red herring. I write for that site as a favor to the publisher in helping trying to get his site off the ground. My employment in the industry comes from spending several years employed by Scout.com (a subsidiary of Fox Sports), during which time I was a voting member of the U.S. Basketball Writers Association.

If you don't want to believe me just because you don't believe it, fine. But you're barking up the wrong tree if the premise is because you're challenging my comments about not being a fan, which were made in a much different context then what you're now discussing.

What doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be insinuating that I made all this up because I'm an Ohio State fan and thus dislike Cincinnati. If that were the case, why wouldn't I just accuse Cincinnati of cheating and Ohio State not playing them for that reason? I'm not accusing Cincinnati of cheating, I'm accusing Cincinnati of the accusations that Ohio State committed an (albeit somewhat small) recruiting violation. That seems like something trivial to bother making up, doesn't it?

If it were me, and I were Thad Matta, I'd say screw it and want to pound Mick into submission. I don't agree with avoiding Cincinnati. I thought it was petty when Kentucky avoided Louisville for 4 1/2 decades and I think it's petty for Ohio State to avoid Cincinnati. But I'm just telling you the reasons they don't play rather than saying I agree with them.

Sea Ray
03-19-2012, 08:43 PM
Does it even matter?

UC doesn't need OSU. I'd rather try to set up a home an home series with a team that might open up a new recruiting area (Florida, Texas, UCLA, etc.) because playing OSU doesn't provide any more exposure than it already has.

I'm thinking the powers that be should seize the moment and set up a preseason Ohio invitational where they invite either 4 or so Ohio teams and either play off the winners or have the games predetermined. It'd be a great way to promote Ohio basketball and if OSU-UC played just every few yrs it'd get this monkey off the backs of the ADs. They could also invite a few other MAC schools like Miami, Toledo and Kent St (in addition to OU of course) and even sprinkle in Cleveland St. Each team plays two games. It'd be a lot of fun. Kind of like what the Big Ten and the ACC do or you can bring them all to one spot like Cincinnato or Columbus.

Sea Ray
03-19-2012, 08:47 PM
All three teams that are wearing those hideous Adidas uniforms are still around. Baylor, Cincy and Louisville. I think.

True. Also out of the 16 remaining teams, OU (and perhaps Xavier) is the only little guy or mid major left despite all the upsets on Friday.

improbus
03-19-2012, 08:48 PM
All three teams that are wearing those hideous Adidas uniforms are still around. Baylor, Cincy and Louisville. I think.
I love OU, but what are they trying to do with those uni's? Are they trying to look like computer chips? They are really bad.

SeeinRed
03-19-2012, 08:51 PM
If you hate to be that guy, then don't be that guy. Ohio State and Cincinnati are playing one another in the NCAA Tournament, so I think it's completely relevant. I'll never understand why people that are taking no part in the conversation take it upon themselves to complain about a conversation they don't care about.

Besides, there aren't any tournament games until Thursday, so it's doubtful there would be too much activity until then.

Pretty much the exact response I expected. Obviously I care about the conversation, just not the one including questioning fandom and credibility. As I said, it has been done before. If I am the only one who feels that way, that is fine. I can find other places to discuss the NCAA Tournament without these types of discussions. There is plenty to talk about without them.

Scrap Irony
03-19-2012, 10:18 PM
FWIW, I've heard it's all on OSU. They simply see no need in playing any Ohio school. They've only played each of the other Ohio-based teams a handful of times.

They don't have to, really. It's a lose-lose situation for them. They're considered the best the state has to offer year in and year out. Why give other teams a game to possibly upset that?

Of course, having said that, it becomes a mandate as UC and/ or Xavier improve their national image. if Cincinnati continues to win at the clip they have this year, continue to pile up Sweet 16s and better, sportswriters and fans will put enough pressure on OSU to schedule a home and home. Same with Xavier.

Of course, it took Louisville 20 years of sustained excellence for Kentucky to schedule Louisville in the same type of situation. (And only then with a governor who basically forced it on the university, if guys before my time can be believed.)

Boston Red
03-19-2012, 10:35 PM
Until Matta got to Ohio State, I never thought of Ohio State as being a better program than either Xavier or (especially) UC. Granted, my of my frame of reference was the Huggins era at UC and some pretty mediocre basketball at Ohio State given my age. If Ohio State felt superior (which I don't doubt), much of it was false bravado.

nmculbreth
03-19-2012, 11:04 PM
Until Matta got to Ohio State, I never thought of Ohio State as being a better program than either Xavier or (especially) UC. Granted, my of my frame of reference was the Huggins era at UC and some pretty mediocre basketball at Ohio State given my age. If Ohio State felt superior (which I don't doubt), much of it was false bravado.

Word.

UC doesn't need to play OSU to validate it's worth as a program. UC has managed to build their own brand despite playing in the wilderness of the Great Midwest and Conference USA and UC has the opportunity to take the program to even greater heights playing in the best conference in the country. The fact that OSU and their fanbase thinks that they're better than UC doesn't make it so.

Roy Tucker
03-19-2012, 11:26 PM
OSU had a good run under Fred Taylor through the 60's.

I'm an OSU grad and bleed scarlet and gray, but OSU's hoops program doesn't have near the cachet the football program does.

I like the early season Ohio tournament idea, but I seriously doubt anything like that will happen. UC used to play UD and Miami early on and they were sometimes good games but they've fallen by the wayside.

I am looking forward to the OSU-UC tilt.

Brutus
03-20-2012, 12:38 AM
Until Matta got to Ohio State, I never thought of Ohio State as being a better program than either Xavier or (especially) UC. Granted, my of my frame of reference was the Huggins era at UC and some pretty mediocre basketball at Ohio State given my age. If Ohio State felt superior (which I don't doubt), much of it was false bravado.

Ohio State and Cincinnati have been pretty similar historically. Cincinnati has a .615 all-time winning percentage, Ohio State a .601. Cincinnati has 26 NCAA appearances with Ohio State 28. Whereas Cincinnati has six Final Fours, Ohio State has 10.

Xavier is a notch below both in all three categories.

They have 23 NCAA appearances with a .587 winning percentage, but no Final Fours.

traderumor
03-20-2012, 08:45 AM
Dont really know any other way to say this. If that happened, I have a hard time buying that not one reporter had a source or sources to cover the story and run with it. It would have been a huge story for any journalist, bc its juicy involving national programs and a highly rated recruit. I have a hard time buying that it happened and not one reporter managed to get the inside scoop and print it, but somehow a fan on a message board has inside knowledge of the story.
Because recruiting stories are so common? What happens in recruiting usually stays in recruiting. Very seldom does one program want to open up that can of worms, knowing they might be next. Anyone paying attention at the time knew about the situation and how bad it smelled when he ended up at UC. Also keep in mind that this was nearly 20 years ago and a lot has changed in sports journalism and media outlets, so that may color your expectations.

Chip R
03-20-2012, 09:06 AM
I know that tOSU and UC have only played each other once in the past 50 years and I've read this thread and looked at the reasons why they don't play each other. Correct me if I'm wrong but the two teams didn't play each other very much before those two championship matchups in the early 60s.

Caveat Emperor
03-20-2012, 09:10 AM
They have 23 NCAA appearances with a .587 winning percentage, but no Final Fours.

The whole concept of "made a Final Four" or "Road to the Final Four" seems incredibly silly to me.

They don't hang banners in baseball just for making it to the NLCS / ALCS, and you aren't going to write "Played in 4 NFC title games" on your bust in Canton.

Championships? Crow a ton. Championship game appearances? Sure, I guess. Making the semi-finals? Find something better to brag about.

I guess CBS marketing has sort of made this a moot issue, but it's always bothered me.

Sea Ray
03-20-2012, 09:11 AM
Ohio State and Cincinnati have been pretty similar historically. Cincinnati has a .615 all-time winning percentage, Ohio State a .601. Cincinnati has 26 NCAA appearances with Ohio State 28. Whereas Cincinnati has six Final Fours, Ohio State has 10.

Xavier is a notch below both in all three categories.

They have 23 NCAA appearances with a .587 winning percentage, but no Final Fours.

To be fair, the post you're referring to specifically said "before Thad Matta arrived". Do your numbers include the Thad Matta yrs?...because they shouldn't

Sea Ray
03-20-2012, 09:14 AM
The whole concept of "made a Final Four" or "Road to the Final Four" seems incredibly silly to me.

They don't hang banners in baseball just for making it to the NLCS / ALCS, and you aren't going to write "Played in 4 NFC title games" on your bust in Canton.

Championships? Crow a ton. Championship game appearances? Sure, I guess. Making the semi-finals? Find something better to brag about.

I guess CBS marketing has sort of made this a moot issue, but it's always bothered me.

I like the fact that they hang banners at UC for NCAA appearances and other things than winning it all. It marks an achievement and I don't think it should be all about winning it all. I think the Reds achieved soomething by winning their division a couple yrs ago even though they came nowhere near winning it all. On the amatuer level I feel even more strongly that achievements short of a championship should be honored and recognized

bucksfan2
03-20-2012, 09:15 AM
FWIW, I've heard it's all on OSU. They simply see no need in playing any Ohio school. They've only played each of the other Ohio-based teams a handful of times.

They don't have to, really. It's a lose-lose situation for them. They're considered the best the state has to offer year in and year out. Why give other teams a game to possibly upset that?

Of course, having said that, it becomes a mandate as UC and/ or Xavier improve their national image. if Cincinnati continues to win at the clip they have this year, continue to pile up Sweet 16s and better, sportswriters and fans will put enough pressure on OSU to schedule a home and home. Same with Xavier.

Of course, it took Louisville 20 years of sustained excellence for Kentucky to schedule Louisville in the same type of situation. (And only then with a governor who basically forced it on the university, if guys before my time can be believed.)

I grew up a big time UC fan. I asked the same questions many UC fans are asking now, why won't UK play us? Why won't OSU play us? I don't really buy any excuse because in college basketball the "power conferences" don't really matter that much. What matters is the type of program you have. Even when UC was in the CUSA they had perenial tournament teams like UL, Marquette, UNCC, DePaul (yea remember when those teams were good?) They may not have been as good as the Big East at the time but they were just as good as pretty much every other conference out there.

I know the public reason behind UK not playing UC. I know some rumors behind OSU not playing UC, but why not IU, or Purdue, or ND (before Big East)? Why did UC drop Miami and UD? Why doesn't UC play Akron, Toledo, or KSU? Just within the Tri-State area there are a lot of good regional programs that don't really play each other.

When I was going to school at OSU, basketball was really an afterthough, but UC basketball was even more of an after thought. There wasn't a rivarly between the two schools, unless you were from Cincinnati you really could care less about the program. When Thad arrived at OSU I thought it would open up the channels between both UC and XU but it really didn't do so. Under Thad OSU has played a pretty aggressive basketball schedule, but it hasn't included any of the local powers. I guess in Columbus they really don't care about OSU, XU, or UK. There really isn't a desire up there to create that rivarly, they just don't care.

texasdave
03-20-2012, 09:20 AM
I like the fact that they hang banners at UC for NCAA appearances and other things than winning it all. It marks an achievement and I don't think it should be all about winning it all. I think the Reds achieved soomething by winning their division a couple yrs ago even though they came nowhere near winning it all. On the amatuer level I feel even more strongly that achievements short of a championship should be honored and recognized

On the amateur level most assuredly. No problem at all with that. If I was Nichols State I would hang a 'We beat Missouri in the 2012 NCAA Tournament' banner. Same with Lehigh beating Duke. For some programs, games like that are something to be especially proud of. Realistically, that is about the most those teams can accomplish given the disparity in resources, etc.

Sea Ray
03-20-2012, 11:16 AM
On the amateur level most assuredly. No problem at all with that. If I was Norfolk State I would hang a 'We beat Missouri in the 2012 NCAA Tournament' banner. Same with Lehigh beating Duke. For some programs, games like that are something to be especially proud of. Realistically, that is about the most those teams can accomplish given the disparity in resources, etc.

:D

WMR
03-20-2012, 11:27 AM
Speaking of banners, who can spot the error/misleading info of this banner lineup?

http://www.evancarroll.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/unc.jpg

cumberlandreds
03-20-2012, 11:37 AM
Speaking of banners, who can spot the error/misleading info of this banner lineup?

http://www.evancarroll.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/unc.jpg

It's funny that the first banner doesn't have NCAA on it. :)

WMR
03-20-2012, 11:48 AM
It's funny that the first banner doesn't have NCAA on it. :)

Yeah, UK actually has 10 National Championships. :lol:

Johnny Footstool
03-20-2012, 11:58 AM
The whole concept of "made a Final Four" or "Road to the Final Four" seems incredibly silly to me.

They don't hang banners in baseball just for making it to the NLCS / ALCS, and you aren't going to write "Played in 4 NFC title games" on your bust in Canton.

Championships? Crow a ton. Championship game appearances? Sure, I guess. Making the semi-finals? Find something better to brag about.

I guess CBS marketing has sort of made this a moot issue, but it's always bothered me.

They hang banners for winning your division or winning a wild card, which is essentially the same thing as making it to the NLCS/ALCS, or reaching the NFL playoffs.

If any other sport had a similar tournament format, you can bet the teams that advanced would be proud of advancing, and would commemorate it.

ervinsm84
03-20-2012, 12:29 PM
Because recruiting stories are so common? What happens in recruiting usually stays in recruiting. Very seldom does one program want to open up that can of worms, knowing they might be next. Anyone paying attention at the time knew about the situation and how bad it smelled when he ended up at UC. Also keep in mind that this was nearly 20 years ago and a lot has changed in sports journalism and media outlets, so that may color your expectations.

I wasnt talking about the Damon Flint stuff from 93. I was talking about the "oh mick made controversial remarks about Thad while recruiting Yancy" which I've never seen brought up anywhere other than an OhST fan who writes for SB nation, a site that openly advertises that fans of their own team will be reporting in a non objective manner, was speculating on an unsubstantiated rumor as if this definitively occurred.

traderumor
03-20-2012, 12:37 PM
To be fair, the post you're referring to specifically said "before Thad Matta arrived". Do your numbers include the Thad Matta yrs?...because they shouldn'tI don't know that there would be a huge difference in all time percentage. While Thad has taken the program to another level, it isn't like it wasn't a successful program and was consistently in the hunt for Big 10 Championships, heck, since Eldon Miller arrived to revive the program that Taylor had let rot on the vine.

traderumor
03-20-2012, 12:38 PM
I wasnt talking about the Damon Flint stuff from 93. I was talking about the "oh mick made controversial remarks about Thad while recruiting Yancy" which I've never seen brought up anywhere other than an OhST fan who writes for SB nation, a site that openly advertises that fans of their own team will be reporting in a non objective manner, was speculating on an unsubstantiated rumor as if this definitively occurred.I see, thanks for clarifying.

cumberlandreds
03-20-2012, 01:16 PM
Yeah, UK actually has 10 National Championships. :lol:

Yea, I knew UNC counted those Helms trophy championships as national champions. At best they were a mythical championship like football had before the BCS.

Assembly Hall
03-20-2012, 01:38 PM
Yea, I knew UNC counted those Helms trophy championships as national champions. At best they were a mythical championship like football had before the BCS.

The NCAA Men's Basketball Championship started in 1939(?). Before that the NIT was the measuring stick. But they had polls back in those days, and alot of the media sources did award championships to who they deemed #1.

Roy Tucker
03-20-2012, 02:31 PM
The NCAA Men's Basketball Championship started in 1939(?). Before that the NIT was the measuring stick. But they had polls back in those days, and alot of the media sources did award championships to who they deemed #1.

I can't say exactly when the tipping point was, but even after 1939, the NIT was considered the more prestigious tournament. Probably not till the mid-50's and Bill Russell's San Francisco Dons in '55-'56 and then the '57 triple OT game between NC and Kansas (with Wilt Chamberlain).

Sea Ray
03-20-2012, 02:50 PM
I don't know that there would be a huge difference in all time percentage.

Probably, but can you say the same about NCAA appearances?

Brutus
03-20-2012, 04:35 PM
The whole concept of "made a Final Four" or "Road to the Final Four" seems incredibly silly to me.

They don't hang banners in baseball just for making it to the NLCS / ALCS, and you aren't going to write "Played in 4 NFC title games" on your bust in Canton.

Championships? Crow a ton. Championship game appearances? Sure, I guess. Making the semi-finals? Find something better to brag about.

I guess CBS marketing has sort of made this a moot issue, but it's always bothered me.

I actually agree with you on that, but I only cited it because it seems fans seem to buy into the idea that Final Fours dictate the success of a program.

If you think about it, citing a Final Four is saying "hey, we lost a game later than you did!"

Brutus
03-20-2012, 04:37 PM
To be fair, the post you're referring to specifically said "before Thad Matta arrived". Do your numbers include the Thad Matta yrs?...because they shouldn't


Ohio State was still a better program than Xavier historically before Matta arrived. Xavier has made the tournament just as many times as Ohio State since Matta got there (remember Matta's first team was ineligible for the tournament and in 2008 they were in the NIT). In fact, Xavier has made the NCAA Tournament six times since Matta left; Ohio State five times. The winning percentage would go down ever so slightly, but Xavier's has been pretty dang good in the past 5-6 years too, so theirs would also go down. The end result is the same even if we ignore the Matta-era for Xavier and Ohio State.

Boston Red
03-20-2012, 05:32 PM
Of course Ohio State is a better program historically. I was born in 1976 and started watching basketball regularly in the mid-80s. Ohio State was probably somewhat better than Xavier in that era (pre-Matta), too, but it wasn't much of a gulf. Certainly not one to be "protected" by not playing each other.

Not that there was even a perceived rivalry/bad feelings on either side before Matta went from X to OSU.

Brutus
03-20-2012, 05:57 PM
Of course Ohio State is a better program historically. I was born in 1976 and started watching basketball regularly in the mid-80s. Ohio State was probably somewhat better than Xavier in that era (pre-Matta), too, but it wasn't much of a gulf. Certainly not one to be "protected" by not playing each other.

Not that there was even a perceived rivalry/bad feelings on either side before Matta went from X to OSU.

You said you never thought of Ohio State being a better program than Xavier until Matta got there. So your statements seem to be contradicting one another.

If you agree they've been a better program historically, then I guess you should have thought of them as a better program pre-Matta :D

Boston Red
03-20-2012, 06:29 PM
Historically. You know like how Dayton is historically probably better than Xavier. But no one born after 1980 would really think about Dayton as better than Xavier based on what they've seen in their lifetimes.

traderumor
03-20-2012, 08:30 PM
Probably, but can you say the same about NCAA appearances?How about National Championships? ;) I don't know that tourney appearances is a fair measuring stick for two programs in completely different regular season worlds in the timeframe being discussed here.

For the record, OSU stands at 24 NCAA appearances, Xavier 23, according to Wikipedia. It was unclear from the note on the site if the four vacated seasons were included in that count.

Brutus
03-20-2012, 11:08 PM
Historically. You know like how Dayton is historically probably better than Xavier. But no one born after 1980 would really think about Dayton as better than Xavier based on what they've seen in their lifetimes.

I don't really think anyone thought Xavier was as good a program as Ohio State in their lifetimes before Thad Matta. Matta sure didn't think that. Heck, Ohio State has just been to a Final Four in 1999. Ohio State was a 1-seed in 1991 and 1992. And that was within 15 years of Matta being hired. Clearly we're not talking about ancient history... like Seattle, Mary Hardin-Baylor or Hardin-Simmons being powerhouses back in the 1940's and 50's.

dabvu2498
03-20-2012, 11:33 PM
I don't really think anyone thought Xavier was as good a program as Ohio State in their lifetimes before Thad Matta. Matta sure didn't think that. Heck, Ohio State has just been to a Final Four in 1999. Ohio State was a 1-seed in 1991 and 1992. And that was within 15 years of Matta being hired. Clearly we're not talking about ancient history... like Seattle, Mary Hardin-Baylor or Hardin-Simmons being powerhouses back in the 1940's and 50's.

Mary Hardin-Baylor? I'm fairly sure they just became a co-ed school in the not so distant past. A quick search shows nothing on their basketball history.

Hardin-Simmons doesn't look like they've ever been a "powerhouse" either.
http://www.hsuathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/Year-By-Year_Record

I'm assuming you're thinking of someone else.

Brutus
03-21-2012, 01:02 AM
Mary Hardin-Baylor? I'm fairly sure they just became a co-ed school in the not so distant past. A quick search shows nothing on their basketball history.

Hardin-Simmons doesn't look like they've ever been a "powerhouse" either.
http://www.hsuathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/Year-By-Year_Record

I'm assuming you're thinking of someone else.

They were never powerhouses, and I admit to purposely exaggerating the statement to get a point across, but I was trying to convey that we're not talking about a program that fell off the face of the earth over the course of history, as those programs were somewhat relevant at one point (well, Mary Hardin-Baylor wasn't, but Hardin-Simmons and Seattle definitely were). Perhaps better examples would have been NYU, CCNY, San Francisco, etc., but hopefully you get the point I was trying to make.

dabvu2498
03-21-2012, 01:29 AM
They were never powerhouses, and I admit to purposely exaggerating the statement to get a point across, but I was trying to convey that we're not talking about a program that fell off the face of the earth over the course of history, as those programs were somewhat relevant at one point (well, Mary Hardin-Baylor wasn't, but Hardin-Simmons and Seattle definitely were). Perhaps better examples would have been NYU, CCNY, San Francisco, etc., but hopefully you get the point I was trying to make.

I was confused by your inclusion of M H-B and H-S. I consider myself a fair student of the history of the game and didn't know if I was missing something about the history of those two programs.

Assembly Hall
03-21-2012, 04:42 AM
They were never powerhouses, and I admit to purposely exaggerating the statement to get a point across, but I was trying to convey that we're not talking about a program that fell off the face of the earth over the course of history, as those programs were somewhat relevant at one point (well, Mary Hardin-Baylor wasn't, but Hardin-Simmons and Seattle definitely were). Perhaps better examples would have been NYU, CCNY, San Francisco, etc., but hopefully you get the point I was trying to make.

LOL.......I got the point!!!!!!!! And to show my age, I remember when San Francisco was a powerhouse and I was born in '67. Shows how much the college b-ball landscape has changed since I have been alive.

Brutus
03-21-2012, 04:44 AM
I was confused by your inclusion of M H-B and H-S. I consider myself a fair student of the history of the game and didn't know if I was missing something about the history of those two programs.

I think I misspoke on Mary Hardin-Baylor. I don't know why I mentioned them, though I was thinking they had been a D-1 program during those years, but Hardin-Simmons was somewhat of an established program for a handful of years heading into the 50s and made a handful of NCAA Tournaments.

dabvu2498
03-21-2012, 05:26 AM
I think I misspoke on Mary Hardin-Baylor. I don't know why I mentioned them, though I was thinking they had been a D-1 program during those years, but Hardin-Simmons was somewhat of an established program for a handful of years heading into the 50s and made a handful of NCAA Tournaments.

I see now, after a little more research, that they made it twice (53 and 57).

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/history/_/team1/6120

But really, they were pretty bad most of the time:

http://www.hsuathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/Year-By-Year_Record

I had no idea they'd ever competed at that level. Makes me wonder what conference they were in back in the day. May have to consult a book (gasp!) and find out.

Assembly Hall
03-21-2012, 09:07 AM
I had no idea they'd ever competed at that level. Makes me wonder what conference they were in back in the day. May have to consult a book (gasp!) and find out.

I use sports-reference.com for alot of info.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/hardin-simmons/1957.html

jredmo2
03-21-2012, 12:50 PM
Who would have thought in 2007 that, in five years, Bearcats' 6'4 center Connor Barwin would become a successful pro athlete at the highest level, while Greg Oden would have no job?

LoganBuck
03-21-2012, 01:16 PM
Who would have thought in 2007 that, in five years, Bearcats' 6'4 center Connor Barwin would become a successful pro athlete at the highest level, while Greg Oden would have no job?

It is sad that Oden's body betrayed him.

Roy Tucker
03-21-2012, 02:26 PM
Saw this in the paper this AM... Nothing new, but a summary of the UC-OSU cold war.

I did like the Jeffersonville crack.

http://www.buckeyextra.com/content/stories/2012/03/21/osu-uc-cold-war-not-likely-to-thaw.html

Roy Tucker
03-21-2012, 02:31 PM
One thing I was going to mention abouy Xavier's success is that starting late in Bob Staak's era, they've had a good run of some darn fine coaches with Staak, Pete Gillen, Skip Prosser, Thad Matta, Sean Miller, and now Chris Mack. They know how to groom them down there.

bucksfan2
03-21-2012, 02:57 PM
So I have been breaking down the OSU UC game in my head and here is what I have come up with.

Coaching
Edge OSU.
I don't think there is much of a debate here. I will contend that this is Mick's best coaching job he has ever done, but I still give Thad a considerable edge.

PG
Edge OSU
Craft is a prototypical college PG. IMO he is exactly what you want as a PG. Wright is a good guard but isn't in Craft's league as a PG. He has the ability to score more, be a little better on offense, but Craft's D negates a lot of that.

SG
Edge OSU
Its a little tricky here but I am going Buford and Dixon here. Buford is a better all around player than Dixon.

3 Guard
Edge UC
Killpatrick is much much better on offense and won't need to worry a whole lot about Smith Jr on defense. If Buford is put on Killpatrick it makes for an interesting matchup

SF
Edge OSU
If you can call it a forward in this game. Thomas makes for a tough matchup, one that Parker can handle. Parker just doesn't pose enough of an offensive threat to swing the any advantage towards him.

PF
Edge OSU
Gates isn't the type of player who gives Sullinger fits. If he plays possessed like can it will make for a very fun match up. He can't disappear and Sullinger knows how to score against post guys like Gates

Bench
Edge Slight UC
UC gets an edge because Jackson is better than anyone who comes off of OSU's bench. The problem I see for UC is that once you get past Jackson it really drops off. Mbodj is pretty bad coming off the bench. Guys like Guyn and Davis pose a little more of an offensive threat that UC has but hardly difference makers. The problem with OSU's bench comes at the offensive end. Scott, Ravenal, and Thompson all are good on D but pretty poor on offense, unless Ravenal channels his inner Sullinger.

3 point shooting
Edge UC
Really isn't a doubt. OSU struggles to shoot the 3.

Experience
Edge slightly OSU
I give the slight edge to OSU because of Buford. The rest of OSU's contriubitors have been here before. Dixon and Gates will come out firing but so will Buford and Sullinger.

Caveat Emperor
03-21-2012, 03:03 PM
It is sad that Oden's body betrayed him.

Now that he's done, can we all drop the charade of anyone actually believing he wasn't 30 years old in college?

ervinsm84
03-21-2012, 03:56 PM
Thomas is a matchup nightmare and elite talent, but Parker continues to amaze me with his rebounding. I think he has a better chance than a lot of people realize of holding his own on the boards, but gl defending him when he has the ball. Hopefully Mick goes zone.

For the season
6.8 rbds per 40 mins Thomas
8.5 rbds per 40 mins Parker


For the last 7 games or so that Thomas has been out of this world good, Parkers not exactly been a slouch and still has out rebounded him.
Thomas 20.53 pp40 and 7.9 rbd per 40
Parker 14.7 pp40 and 8.9 rbd per 40


I also think with as a poor of a defender that Thomas is, if he gets matched up with Parker 1on1 he will have a hard time guarding him.

Stray
03-22-2012, 11:48 AM
I love our chances if we make the game ugly tonight. If it's a 62-60 kinda game we're in good shape... Ohio State has games where they look unstoppable offensively, if they get it rolling I don't think we can score near enough points to keep up with em.

And Cash needs another strong game, not necessarily scoring, but protecting the ball against Craft who is about as good as there is at pressuring the point.

Roy Tucker
03-22-2012, 01:15 PM
Good stuff from Posnanski...

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2012/03/19/madness-money-mayhem/

Tuff Nut
03-22-2012, 07:16 PM
I think tOSU - UC is one of the most intriging games of the night. MSU should Izzo daVille, Wisconsin is my pick over 'cuse, and Florida does the SEC proud, in doing what Murray St. had in hand, until the refs decided not to watch the game.

texasdave
03-22-2012, 07:24 PM
All four BEAST teams in action tonight.

VottoFan54
03-22-2012, 08:36 PM
There is some ugly basketball being played between Louisville and Michigan State right now.

texasdave
03-22-2012, 08:42 PM
There is some ugly basketball being played between Louisville and Michigan State right now.

There are no 'ugly' wins in March. Just 'ugly' losses. :)

jmac
03-22-2012, 08:53 PM
I coulnt believ the play Izzo set for the end of first half. Gave Ville' some momentum.

dougdirt
03-22-2012, 09:19 PM
Can't believe the shot that Wisconsin settled for. They had 15 seconds, down by 1 and settled for a 26 foot jumped on a double team with 3 seconds left. Never even tried to drive to the hoop.

texasdave
03-22-2012, 09:19 PM
The Orange 'squeezes' by the Badgers of Wisconsin - 64-63.

texasdave
03-22-2012, 09:20 PM
Can't believe the shot that Wisconsin settled for. They had 15 seconds, down by 1 and settled for a 26 foot jumped on a double team with 3 seconds left. Never even tried to drive to the hoop.

An incredibly poor shot for the amount of time they had. Of course, Syracuse can 'D' a team up.

dougdirt
03-22-2012, 09:23 PM
An incredibly poor shot for the amount of time they had. Of course, Syracuse can 'D' a team up.

While I agree that Syracuse can smother you, Wisconsin let them. They simply were essentially settling for a 3 point attempt with 15 seconds left and down by 1. Just poor execution.

traderumor
03-22-2012, 09:39 PM
If I were a fan of the Badgers, I would be livid. But, live by the stall, die by the stall I guess. Talk about frittering away the last two minutes of the clock. They were playing as if they had a lead to protect.

So, Bo, "DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!!"

joshnky
03-22-2012, 09:54 PM
This defense pitino has put together is impressive. I wanted him fired a month ago but he's done a terrific job of stabilizing the offense which combined with terrific defense has Louisville shocking everyone.

BuckeyeRed27
03-22-2012, 10:01 PM
Nice start for the Buckeyes. Moving the ball very well.

Scrap Irony
03-22-2012, 10:03 PM
Louisville and the winner of Florida/ Marquette should be a very interesting game.

Boston Red
03-22-2012, 11:19 PM
The teams must have switched jerseys at halftime.

texasdave
03-22-2012, 11:25 PM
The teams must have switched jerseys at halftime.

Nope. Who would want to wear those ugly Bearcat unis? :)

Razor Shines
03-23-2012, 12:29 AM
How is that a "basketball play" but Will Sheehey just bringing the ball across his face a flagrant foul?

I don't like the idea of the officials going to the video to decide fouls after they happen though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jredmo2
03-23-2012, 12:48 AM
Well, good season by UC. 2 horrifying weeks until opening day. guess I'll talk to my family or something

traderumor
03-23-2012, 01:25 AM
That 2nd half of the OSU/UC game was quite the roller coaster ride. Much of what I considered to be advantage Buckeyes played out that way except for Buford being a non-factor. UC doesn't shoot the ball well, their % was a little skewed by the run in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half, but for the game, the rims and boards were getting nervous, lots of bricks. Of course, their hot streak coincided with the Buckeyes missing a few shots and throwing the ball around. In the end, they couldn't stop Sullinger or Thomas, no answers, and could not hit a few late shots to make the Buckeyes pay for missed FTs. In the end, the steal that was the difference in the Florida St. game became their downfall in this game.

But I gotta say, I was really, really nervous when it was sitting at UC up 4 with under 10 to play. I thought it was going down to the wire.

Can OSU beat Syracuse? Probably comes down to Buford and Thomas hitting shots and Thomas and Sully cleaning up on putbacks.

traderumor
03-23-2012, 01:34 AM
Now that we have Syracuse between the Bucks and Final 4, something has been bugging me about Syracuse and their #1 seed. I haven't seen this discussed, but I think it was very shady that the timing of the Mello ineligibility came AFTER the seeding, hours after the seeding for the tourney. I'm sure Syracuse knew that he was going to be ineligible and should have disclosed that development BEFORE the seeding came out, not after they got their seed.

As a result, they get an easier run to the Sweet 16 than if they drop down to a 2-4 and buy time to adjust. Maybe the seed isn't changed, but I have to think that it would have raised the questions. I guess at least Syracuse would avoid vacating tourney wins, but I think it is just more evidence of the teflon, shoulder shrugging "I don't know anything, I just work here" Boeheim being a conniving, bald headed little cheater that has been flying under the radar for years.

I really hope the Bucks end their run with an ugly beatdown Saturday, firing up bombs over the zone from all over the floor.

traderumor
03-23-2012, 01:38 AM
While I agree that Syracuse can smother you, Wisconsin let them. They simply were essentially settling for a 3 point attempt with 15 seconds left and down by 1. Just poor execution.Learned after the game that they don't have Bergmann in the game, didn't get him in the game in time, Ryan claims he had to save his TO for inbounding the ball. Somebody screwed up.

Ryan and Izzo getting dumped on the same nights :lol: Very cool. Two constipated, whining, pained expressions gone from the sidelines til next November.

Slyder
03-23-2012, 01:40 AM
I really need to quit listening to the talking morons Syracuse just shredded my bracket in these last couple rounds after listening to the idiots at ESPN and having them lose to KSU.

traderumor
03-23-2012, 08:00 AM
Another thought on expectations vs. how the game played out. The game was not at all physical. I really expected UC to play that angle when the whole world knows that Ohio State can be rattled with rough play, and after watching the UC/FSU rugby match, I was sure UC would try to ugly up the game. Never happened.

Assembly Hall
03-23-2012, 08:08 AM
Now that we have Syracuse between the Bucks and Final 4, something has been bugging me about Syracuse and their #1 seed. I haven't seen this discussed, but I think it was very shady that the timing of the Mello ineligibility came AFTER the seeding, hours after the seeding for the tourney. I'm sure Syracuse knew that he was going to be ineligible and should have disclosed that development BEFORE the seeding came out, not after they got their seed.

As a result, they get an easier run to the Sweet 16 than if they drop down to a 2-4 and buy time to adjust. Maybe the seed isn't changed, but I have to think that it would have raised the questions. I guess at least Syracuse would avoid vacating tourney wins, but I think it is just more evidence of the teflon, shoulder shrugging "I don't know anything, I just work here" Boeheim being a conniving, bald headed little cheater that has been flying under the radar for years.

I really hope the Bucks end their run with an ugly beatdown Saturday, firing up bombs over the zone from all over the floor.

I have seen that discussed on other boards and it does make you raise your eyebrows.

bucksfan2
03-23-2012, 08:14 AM
Another thought on expectations vs. how the game played out. The game was not at all physical. I really expected UC to play that angle when the whole world knows that Ohio State can be rattled with rough play, and after watching the UC/FSU rugby match, I was sure UC would try to ugly up the game. Never happened.

That was a coaching decision. Mick decided to start the game in a zone which really takes UC's physicality out of it. You can't really bump a guy if your not guarding him rather a zone. I think it was a tactical move based upon the way OSU dealt with Gonzaga's zone but one that backfired. UC just couldn't find Thomas and OSU moved the ball very well to find the open shooter. Smith Jr. also knocked down some very big shots early in the game.

The game played like I expected it to and I got pretty nervous when UC took the lead and then Buford went down with 4 fouls with about 10 minutes to go. When I heard the guys on TV saying that UC is shooting 80% during their run I took a deep breath and knew it couldn't continue. I am somewhat surprised that Mick didn't continue the high ball screen with Wright and Parker getting the Wright Thomas mismatch. Wright really exploited that hitting a couple of 3's to close the gap.

In the end I think it was Craft's defensive pressure, I wonder if Wright has Craft in his nightmares last night, Sullinger making a few key shots to thwart UC's run, and Thomas posing a gigantic mismatch that was exploited. While Buford had a very lackluster game, one that could have been his final college game, he nailed a huge 3 that really gave OSU a boost. Its such a pure shot when he takes the handoff coming off the wing.

I give UC a heck of a lot of credit. It was sad seeing them walk off the court knowing they lost to the only team I would ever root against them for. I give a lot of credit to Dixon and Gates who came into a messy situation and helped Cronin turn that program around. It was nice to see Dixon hit his last college shot, albeit a garbage time jumper.

HeatherC1212
03-23-2012, 11:45 AM
Well, it was nice while it lasted....so much for being in first place for my work bracket pool, LOL :laugh:

Go Bucks!!! :jump:

Ohayou
03-23-2012, 09:36 PM
Go Bobcats?

Reds Fanatic
03-23-2012, 09:51 PM
First overtime game of the tournament


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?f0jprx

Stray
03-24-2012, 12:49 AM
That was a great Indiana/Kentucky game. When Kentucky plays well they're unbeatable.

Mutaman
03-24-2012, 01:15 AM
I figured out what's been bothering me: I like Brian Ferry as much as the next guy but if I was in a car with people playing and singing along to Spandau Ballet, I would have to insist on getting out and walking home.

Sort of like the Dude and the Eagles.

gilpdawg
03-24-2012, 01:17 AM
I figured out what's been bothering me: I like Brian Ferry as much as the next guy but if I was in a car with people playing and singing along to Spandau Ballet, I would have to insist on getting out and walking home.

Sort of like the Dude and the Eagles.

I've had a really bad day man and I hate the (deleted) Eagles!

LoganBuck
03-24-2012, 01:52 PM
So Buckeyes v Cuse: I have not seen Syracuse play without Melo, what will this game look like?

kaldaniels
03-24-2012, 03:03 PM
The elite 8 is as stout as it comes. The champion will have earned it.

dabvu2498
03-24-2012, 06:46 PM
What a comeback.

joshnky
03-24-2012, 06:56 PM
What a comeback.

What a crazy season! I hope UK loses because of the matchup but a UK-UofL final four game will be a hyped in Kentucky like no other game. The local media must be salivating.

BuckeyeRed27
03-24-2012, 08:06 PM
Why can't the NCAA find good refs? The players have risen to the occasion is it to much to ask the refs to as well?

Ohayou
03-24-2012, 08:30 PM
Is it just me or is the crowd ALL Syracuse fans? :confused:

_Sir_Charles_
03-24-2012, 09:37 PM
FINAL 4 BAAAAAYBEEEE!!! Go Bucks!!!! :O)

HeatherC1212
03-25-2012, 01:25 AM
Buckeyes save my bracket again!!! :jump:

KittyDuran
03-25-2012, 07:31 AM
Buckeyes save my bracket again!!! :jump:

They killed mine... Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Gone from 1st, 2nd, then 9th at RZ!

improbus
03-25-2012, 09:28 AM
As much as I love him, words cannot describe how mad I was at DJ Cooper for continuing to shoot when he had Offutt and Kellogg, who basically couldn't miss, begging for the ball.

I have refused to listen to any and all people trying to give me the, "well, it was a good run and you should be proud of them," line. Not only should OU have won that game, it shouldn't have been that close. When the Bobcats figured out how to deny the entry passes to Zeller and Henson, the game should have been over.

Its a good thing UK won or my kids would have learned the definition, contextual, and syntactical use of some colorful words and expressions they have never before experienced.

dabvu2498
03-25-2012, 02:24 PM
Awful call against Baylor.

dabvu2498
03-25-2012, 02:38 PM
Awful call against Kentucky.

dabvu2498
03-25-2012, 04:59 PM
Going to be a blue-blooded final 4. Louisville will have the fewest F4 appearances of the bunch with 9. That's pretty stout.

WMR
03-25-2012, 05:03 PM
UK just moved ahead of UNC by one game for most wins all-time in NCAA tournament (109).

Scrap Irony
03-25-2012, 05:42 PM
Going to be a blue-blooded final 4. Louisville will have the fewest F4 appearances of the bunch with 9. That's pretty stout.

Certainly, it's a change from last season.

Wonder what the ratings will be nationally?

Joseph
03-25-2012, 06:14 PM
Certainly, it's a change from last season.

Wonder what the ratings will be nationally?

Huge.

improbus
03-25-2012, 07:32 PM
It amazing that when the Wisconsin types disappear from a tournament the quality of play rises exponentially. I feel like there should be some minimum points per game threshold to be an "At Large" bid. Conference winners still get automatic bids, but you need to prove that you can actually entertain an audience with basketball to be invited to play.

Scrap Irony
03-25-2012, 07:32 PM
You could argue that four of the top five or six programs (in terms of following) will be in New Orleans.

The Top Ten, in no particular order (IMO):
UNC
Duke
KU
IU
OSU
UK
UofL
Syracuse
UConn
Tennessee

I thought about Arizona, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame for the last spot, but went with the attendance leader among them.

dabvu2498
03-25-2012, 08:11 PM
You could argue that four of the top five or six programs (in terms of following) will be in New Orleans.

The Top Ten, in no particular order (IMO):
UNC
Duke
KU
IU
OSU
UK
UofL
Syracuse
UConn
Tennessee

I thought about Arizona, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame for the last spot, but went with the attendance leader among them.

Oops

HeatherC1212
03-25-2012, 10:21 PM
I got three of the Final Four teams right on my bracket. Maybe I won't be in such bad shape after all when we get our round 2 update tomorrow for my work pool! :D

traderumor
03-25-2012, 10:40 PM
It amazing that when the Wisconsin types disappear from a tournament the quality of play rises exponentially. I feel like there should be some minimum points per game threshold to be an "At Large" bid. Conference winners still get automatic bids, but you need to prove that you can actually entertain an audience with basketball to be invited to play.:thumbup:

jmac
03-25-2012, 11:10 PM
It amazing that when the Wisconsin types disappear from a tournament the quality of play rises exponentially. I feel like there should be some minimum points per game threshold to be an "At Large" bid. Conference winners still get automatic bids, but you need to prove that you can actually entertain an audience with basketball to be invited to play.
It used to be what I referred to as Big Ten basketball but this season it seemed many Big East teams was going to it as well. As one commentator said the other day on ESPN radio, South Florida is a good story but do you really want to see that brand of basketball advance ?

The Operator
03-26-2012, 12:10 AM
Awful call against Baylor.


Awful call against Kentucky.


The officiating in this entire tournament has been just really, really bad. Inconsistent and just flat-out wrong at times. Very frustrating considering how big these games are for every team.

jmac
03-26-2012, 12:20 AM
I am in no way a UofL fan but there were a couple of occasions where Fla should have been called for 5 seconds inbounding ball violations. This is in addition to the bad T on Pitino.

bucksfan2
03-26-2012, 08:14 AM
The officiating in this entire tournament has been just really, really bad. Inconsistent and just flat-out wrong at times. Very frustrating considering how big these games are for every team.

You mean like the foul fest during the OSU Syracuse game? The problem I have with the officials is that they are anticipating fouls now. The charge/flop call has gotten out of hand with the semi-circle. I absolutley can't stand when an official makes an emotional call, getting his whole body into it, instead of making the unemotional call.

Overall for the most part 3 of the best teams made the Final 4. OSU, UK, and Kansas are probably the best 3 in the tournament when you take Marshall's wrist and Melo's suspension into consideration. The other region I think everyone knew was up for grabs and I wasn't surprsed to see UL come out of it. After Missouri lost I thought it was going to be a Marquette and MSU final, but shows you how much I know.

Sea Ray
03-26-2012, 09:19 AM
You could argue that four of the top five or six programs (in terms of following) will be in New Orleans.

The Top Ten, in no particular order (IMO):
UNC
Duke
KU
IU
OSU
UK
UofL
Syracuse
UConn
Tennessee

I thought about Arizona, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame for the last spot, but went with the attendance leader among them.

Tennessee? You talkin' men's basketball?

Chip R
03-26-2012, 09:21 AM
You mean like the foul fest during the OSU Syracuse game? The problem I have with the officials is that they are anticipating fouls now. The charge/flop call has gotten out of hand with the semi-circle. I absolutley can't stand when an official makes an emotional call, getting his whole body into it, instead of making the unemotional call.


That was terrible. There were two fouls called against tOSU in the 1st half where the Syracuse player missed a layup and a dunk and no tOSU player touched them but the refs called a foul on them anyway.

Assembly Hall
03-26-2012, 12:14 PM
You could argue that four of the top five or six programs (in terms of following) will be in New Orleans.

The Top Ten, in no particular order (IMO):
UNC
Duke
KU
IU
OSU
UK
UofL
Syracuse
UConn
Tennessee

I thought about Arizona, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame for the last spot, but went with the attendance leader among them.

What are you talking about? If you are talking about programs, wouldnt UCLA be on that list? Went with the attendendance leader for the last spot? You got 4 teams on that list that werent even in the final Top Ten rankings.

But anyways......3 of the 4 in the FF do not surprise me. I thought UK, Syracuse, UNC, OSU, MSU, and Mizzou were the 6 best teams in the country and maybe Baylor and Duke could sneak in there. I am surprised a tad bit about Louisville, but they got a coach that has excelled in this thing.

Assembly Hall
03-26-2012, 12:16 PM
That was terrible. There were two fouls called against tOSU in the 1st half where the Syracuse player missed a layup and a dunk and no tOSU player touched them but the refs called a foul on them anyway.

All this flopping is due to the soccer influence. LOL

HeatherC1212
03-27-2012, 12:01 AM
Woot! I'm still in first place for my work bracket pool!! Not quite sure how that happened but I plan to enjoy it for as long as it lasts, LOL :laugh:

Todd Gack
03-27-2012, 07:35 AM
Congrats to Thad Matta for finally beating a higher seed in the tournament. You're finally performing better in the tournament than William Buford.

Sea Ray
03-27-2012, 10:24 AM
Woot! I'm still in first place for my work bracket pool!! Not quite sure how that happened but I plan to enjoy it for as long as it lasts, LOL :laugh:

I'll bet you are. I haven't heard of anyone having three of the four teams left in their brackets. Kudos to you...:thumbup:

RANDY IN INDY
03-27-2012, 10:33 AM
My son was 8-8 in the elite 8 and 4-4 with the final four. He is leading the bracket pool at my wife's workplace and it looks like there is no one that can catch him at this point. Unbelievable.

Todd Gack
03-27-2012, 10:35 AM
My son was 8-8 in the elite 8 and 4-4 with the final four. He is leading the bracket pool at my wife's workplace and it looks like there is no one that can catch him at this point. Unbelievable.

NCAA tournament bracket winners are about as random as Super Bowl champions

Redsfaithful
03-27-2012, 10:45 AM
I watched less college basketball this year than I think ever. In the regular season I saw Ohio State-Duke and part of the Ohio State - Michigan State games.

I'm in the 98th percentile of brackets at Yahoo. 6/8 elite eight and 3/4 final four. It really can be pretty random.

Redsfaithful
03-27-2012, 10:46 AM
I also cashed two $100 bets in Vegas over the weekend, one on Ohio State -3 and one on Kentucky -8. Better lucky than good.

improbus
03-27-2012, 06:35 PM
Congrats to Thad Matta for finally beating a higher seed in the tournament. You're finally performing better in the tournament than William Buford.

At OSU. Didn't he beat Mississippi St. While at X?

traderumor
03-27-2012, 09:57 PM
Congrats to Thad Matta for finally beating a higher seed in the tournament. You're finally performing better in the tournament than William Buford.Can your rapier wit consider the seed numbers his teams have had during his osu tenure? How do you propose they beat a higher seed in 2007, for example? Or how they may have accomplished that last year as a 1 seed, even if they won it all?

Did you come up with that one on your own or steal it from Jim Rome?

Mutaman
03-27-2012, 10:35 PM
I also cashed two $100 bets in Vegas over the weekend, one on Ohio State -3 and one on Kentucky -8. Better lucky than good.

Kudos. Don't you just love walking up to the cashier and exchanging little pieces of paper for new crisp bills?

Redsfaithful
03-28-2012, 11:02 AM
Kudos. Don't you just love walking up to the cashier and exchanging little pieces of paper for new crisp bills?

No doubt, I think next time I'm sticking to sports betting where I have a fighting chance at least. Everything else I tried cleaned my clock pretty quick.

texasdave
03-28-2012, 11:35 AM
How irrelevant has the NIT become? Quick. Name the two teams in the championship game.

BuckeyeRed27
03-28-2012, 12:51 PM
How irrelevant has the NIT become? Quick. Name the two teams in the championship game.

I actually have no idea. I'm going to guess Drexel vs. Washington. How'd I do?

cumberlandreds
03-28-2012, 01:14 PM
How irrelevant has the NIT become? Quick. Name the two teams in the championship game.

Minnesota and Stanford. Rejoice Tubby fans! ;)

traderumor
03-28-2012, 02:18 PM
Minnesota and Stanford. Rejoice Tubby fans! ;)
I usually catch a few of these games, but no interest. But......go Big 10/12...I think

texasdave
03-28-2012, 03:39 PM
I usually catch a few of these games, but no interest. But......go Big 10/12...I think

I could not care less about the women's NCAA either. Hope that doesn't make me a hater. :)

HeatherC1212
03-29-2012, 12:26 PM
I'll bet you are. I haven't heard of anyone having three of the four teams left in their brackets. Kudos to you...:thumbup:

Thanks! :) The payout is actually pretty good if you end up being the winner of my work pool so I'm hoping my good fortune carries over into the championship this weekend and Monday. :beerme: :thumbup:

Sea Ray
03-29-2012, 01:33 PM
Thanks! :) The payout is actually pretty good if you end up being the winner of my work pool so I'm hoping my good fortune carries over into the championship this weekend and Monday. :beerme: :thumbup:

Good luck and keep us posted how you fared...:)

cumberlandreds
03-29-2012, 01:37 PM
I usually catch a few of these games, but no interest. But......go Big 10/12...I think

I haven't watched a second of the NIT. I doubt I will tonight either. I don't believe I have watched an NIT game since Kentucky was in it a few years back when BCG was still the coach. Thank goodness those days are over. :)

Caveat Emperor
03-29-2012, 03:30 PM
Proving that you really can never have nice things as a mid-major, John Groce leaves Ohio University to become the coach at Illinois.

Athens Ohio can resume become an obscure spot that generates a lot of arrests on Halloween.

bucksfan2
03-29-2012, 03:48 PM
Proving that you really can never have nice things as a mid-major, John Groce leaves Ohio University to become the coach at Illinois.

Athens Ohio can resume become an obscure spot that generates a lot of arrests on Halloween.

Athens should be a hot spot right now. A team with every remaining starting coming back off a Sweet 16 team. That should be an up and coming coaches dream. They win big next season and the major job offers start coming.

Caveat Emperor
03-29-2012, 04:01 PM
Athens should be a hot spot right now. A team with every remaining starting coming back off a Sweet 16 team. That should be an up and coming coaches dream. They win big next season and the major job offers start coming.

Should be, but the types of coaches you're looking at for a school like Ohio are all completely unproven and almost entirely guesswork. You're stuck trying to figure out what type of leader they would be based on a body of work that usually includes nothing beyond assistant work.

It's a total crap chute. I went to a mid-major school that had a successful coach poached away. We whiffed on the follow-up hire (and the follow-up hire to THAT hire), and the program was set so far back that it still really hasn't recovered.

RiverRat13
03-29-2012, 06:41 PM
Should be, but the types of coaches you're looking at for a school like Ohio are all completely unproven and almost entirely guesswork. You're stuck trying to figure out what type of leader they would be based on a body of work that usually includes nothing beyond assistant work.

It's a total crap chute. I went to a mid-major school that had a successful coach poached away. We whiffed on the follow-up hire (and the follow-up hire to THAT hire), and the program was set so far back that it still really hasn't recovered.

I'd guess Boals takes over. And while I obviously can't prove it, I think he'll be an upgrade to Groce in Athens.

The interesting thing in regards to Groce will be Chicago recruiting. The high school coaches in Chicago wanted a minority to be hired at Illinois.

dabvu2498
03-29-2012, 06:57 PM
I'd guess Boals takes over. And while I obviously can't prove it, I think he'll be an upgrade to Groce in Athens.

The interesting thing in regards to Groce will be Chicago recruiting. The high school coaches in Chicago wanted a minority to be hired at Illinois.

Crazy part is, most of the qualified minorities turned them down.

Revering4Blue
03-29-2012, 08:05 PM
I'd guess Boals takes over. And while I obviously can't prove it, I think he'll be an upgrade to Groce in Athens.

The interesting thing in regards to Groce will be Chicago recruiting. The high school coaches in Chicago wanted a minority to be hired at Illinois.

Simeon's Smith open to Illini assistant job.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/colleges/post/_/id/5838/simeons-smith-open-to-illini-assistant-job

WVRed
03-29-2012, 09:45 PM
I'd guess Boals takes over. And while I obviously can't prove it, I think he'll be an upgrade to Groce in Athens.

The interesting thing in regards to Groce will be Chicago recruiting. The high school coaches in Chicago wanted a minority to be hired at Illinois.

I've read on other message boards that Chicago in general is at odds with the state's flagship school.

You would think Illinois would be successful with a major city to draw from, but the Chicago public schools have been at odds with the University since they hired Bill Self and never really got over it. The fact that Illinois couldn't keep Derrick Rose or Anthony Davis, two of the top in-state prospects, from leaving should say something.

Assembly Hall
03-30-2012, 08:13 AM
I've read on other message boards that Chicago in general is at odds with the state's flagship school.

You would think Illinois would be successful with a major city to draw from, but the Chicago public schools have been at odds with the University since they hired Bill Self and never really got over it. The fact that Illinois couldn't keep Derrick Rose or Anthony Davis, two of the top in-state prospects, from leaving should say something.


Illinois has never gotten the Chicago players. Even Lou Henson failed at it.

bucksfan2
03-30-2012, 08:30 AM
I've read on other message boards that Chicago in general is at odds with the state's flagship school.

You would think Illinois would be successful with a major city to draw from, but the Chicago public schools have been at odds with the University since they hired Bill Self and never really got over it. The fact that Illinois couldn't keep Derrick Rose or Anthony Davis, two of the top in-state prospects, from leaving should say something.

Evan Turner, Lenzel Smith Jr, and Sam Thompson look awfully good in Buckeye red and they came from Chicago.

Assembly Hall
03-30-2012, 09:02 AM
Evan Turner, Lenzel Smith Jr, and Sam Thompson look awfully good in Buckeye red and they came from Chicago.

LOL......and all Illini nation wonders why? ;)

RiverRat13
03-30-2012, 09:50 AM
Illinois has never gotten the Chicago players. Even Lou Henson failed at it.

Yep. Kind of like Maryland with D.C. If the Chicago and D.C. pipelines were perpetually flowing, Illinois and Maryland would be two of the top 10 jobs in the nation. For some reason that isn't the case.

Assembly Hall
03-30-2012, 10:21 AM
Yep. Kind of like Maryland with D.C. If the Chicago and D.C. pipelines were perpetually flowing, Illinois and Maryland would be two of the top 10 jobs in the nation. For some reason that isn't the case.

Very good point. Heck, IU and Notre Dame have great players from the D.C. area.

Scrap Irony
03-30-2012, 01:42 PM
KSR's (http://kentuckysportsradio.com/) CM Tomlin came up with this Final Four Story:

You don’t have to tell Famous Coach how important Saturday’s game is. He already knows.

A scrawled, painted banner hangs on Fan’s house saying that this is the year for Basketball Team to win it all. Assistant Coach’s daughter kissed him goodbye at the airport, telling him to “win it all, Daddy.” A handwritten note, penned by Someone Who Couldn’t Make It, hangs on a locker in the New Orleans Arena locker room reading “This is Team’s year.” Students at University have ditched their classes and carpooled to the Big Easy for a glimpse of the moment when Team would bring home the trophy.

This is the Final Four.

Best Player has been waiting for this moment his entire life, from the moment he set foot on a basketball court for the first time when he was in the sixth grade. His opponent? Fellow Player. They didn’t know it then, but they’d soon join up to lead Team to the championship. And now all comes down to this.

Famous Coach has breakfast with Moral Center Of The Team once a week. They talk about the team, the game of the previous weekend, the game of the upcoming weekend. “This team’s really magical, you know,” Moral Center Of The Team told Famous Coach on Thursday morning during their weekly meal, a tear misting in his eye. He knows, more than anyone, how special this team truly is. Because these teammates are more than another University team. They’re his friends. His family. They’re there for each other.

They picked each other up off the floor after a devastating loss to Awful Team early in the season, and kept each others’ spirits high when Middle-Tier Team beat them or came close to beating them. When the sports pundits said Team wasn’t what they were supposed to be, they didn’t listen. When the papers tried to challenge Famous Coach’s credentials by rehashing past controversies, he refused to let their attacks get to him. When Beloved Senior missed three or more games due to Injury, Team rallied to win games in his honor. “We had to do it for Beloved Senior,” said Player With Questionable Past, “because that’s what we do.”

In City, the streets run Color with Team spirit. Because City is a place where basketball truly means something. Where young men dream of playing for University someday, and grown men recall the past greats which gave University the legacy it holds today. Just ask Old Man in Barbershop. He’ll tell you what it meant to see Past Great play ball. He still remembers watching Famous Game on his black and white television, back before City had high-definition television, or even cable TV. He remembers how that Win or Loss felt. He’ll tell you how important University basketball is. He’s lived it.

No one knows what it means to be a Team Nickname more than Walkon, who was once told by doctors he’d never play basketball again. After Time Frame of intense physical therapy, of doubts in himself, of questions whether it was all worth it, he finally picked up the basketball again. And now he’s one of Team’s most valuable assets. His parents are there at every game, watching his every second. His Father laid off from Job, his mother working overtime as an Occupation and an Occupation to send Walkon to Basketball Camp. To Walkon, it’s more than just a game. It’s the reward for a lifelong struggle.

On Saturday, Famous Coach will face Famous Coach for the first time since Last Time. The two have known each other for years, once being Relationship and now each leading his own team to the fight for the NCAA trophy. They’ll be on opposite ends of the court on Saturday, but make no mistake that surely they’ll be looking at one another with Emotion. For forty intense minutes, Emotion won’t matter. There are bigger things at stake.

As Fan Favorite told reporters on Thursday, “We have to do this for State. And University. And Famous Coach, who believed in all of us.”

And we all know what that means. Because this is the Final Four.

Pithy Closing Line.

Greatest. Story. Ever.

Johnny Footstool
03-30-2012, 02:30 PM
http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/newell_post/2012/mar/30/ohio-state/

An excellent article outlining Ohio State's weaknesses (gives up a lot of threes, not great at shooting threes) and strengths (everything else).

Both teams play basically the same style. It's going to come down to which team sinks threes.

Caveat Emperor
03-30-2012, 07:16 PM
I've read on other message boards that Chicago in general is at odds with the state's flagship school.

You would think Illinois would be successful with a major city to draw from, but the Chicago public schools have been at odds with the University since they hired Bill Self and never really got over it. The fact that Illinois couldn't keep Derrick Rose or Anthony Davis, two of the top in-state prospects, from leaving should say something.

There's, apparently, quite a large "pay to play" aspect to Chicago recruiting.

Assembly Hall
03-31-2012, 12:07 AM
There's, apparently, quite a large "pay to play" aspect to Chicago recruiting.

LMAO!!!!!!!! :thumbup:

traderumor
03-31-2012, 09:21 AM
With respect to the "Clash of the Titans" Final Four, with really only Louisville unexpected but still a top 4 seed, I'm sure high ratings are expected. Last year, with the upset special Final Four, ratings were low. I imagine tickets were accessible and less money flowed to the ticket clearinghouses.

The irony there is that while one of the attractions of the tournament is "anyone can win," when the rubber meets the road, folks want to see the tradition and the powerhouses duke it out in the end. The little dog gets his day through to the Sweet 16, but folks really don't want to watch Butler in the finals. They want Final Fours like this year. They want Kentucky, Duke, N. Carolina, Kansas, Ohio State, et al. They want the powerhouses to watch this weekend.

And it may not be right, but I'm right there with them, regardless of my team included. There's just a different atmosphere when the big boys are playing on this weekend.

Assembly Hall
03-31-2012, 09:29 AM
With respect to the "Clash of the Titans" Final Four, with really only Louisville unexpected but still a top 4 seed, I'm sure high ratings are expected. Last year, with the upset special Final Four, ratings were low. I imagine tickets were accessible and less money flowed to the ticket clearinghouses.

The irony there is that while one of the attractions of the tournament is "anyone can win," when the rubber meets the road, folks want to see the tradition and the powerhouses duke it out in the end. The little dog gets his day through to the Sweet 16, but folks really don't want to watch Butler in the finals. They want Final Fours like this year. They want Kentucky, Duke, N. Carolina, Kansas, Ohio State, et al. They want the powerhouses to watch this weekend.

And it may not be right, but I'm right there with them, regardless of my team included. There's just a different atmosphere when the big boys are playing on this weekend.

I am with ya. I like seeing the big boys play.

Tony Cloninger
03-31-2012, 06:12 PM
Can they just introduce the players and get on with the game?

We have to hear "Party People in the House" and a montage of just corny stuff.... just get on with the game.

Yes..I'm old....but does not mean I don't have a point.

Ohayou
03-31-2012, 08:43 PM
I wish the NBA would change that 1 year rule. Kentucky is ridiculous.

WVRed
03-31-2012, 10:00 PM
Kansas is imploding.

I think Ohio State is the most likely team to knock off Kentucky:

1. Davis won't have a game like he did tonight against Louisville. Dieng is a good center, but Sullinger is more formidable. At best I think the two cancel each other out.

2. DeShaun Thomas and Terrence Jones is a wash with a slight edge to Ohio State. Jones is the type of player that if he turns it on, he can carry Kentucky. Both are similar players though.

3. Kentucky's advantage is at the wings and penetrating. MKG, Lamb, and Miller all carving inside. Haven't followed Ohio State much this year so I don't know how they will respond, either with a zone or man to man. Kentucky can hit the three if needed but the dome will play a factor for both teams.

4. PG is the matchup of the game with Craft on Teague. Craft is going to be the most cerebral PG Kentucky has faced all season and is such a defensive nightmare that I think will give Teague fits. He gave Knight all he could handle last season and Knight is a better PG than Teague right now.

5. Kentucky won tonight by natural talent. Nerves were showing tonight, especially another meltdown from the line tonight by Terrence Jones. I'm thinking Ohio State will let Kentucky play their game and make them beat them from the line. I don't see Indiana repeating itself.

dabvu2498
03-31-2012, 10:48 PM
I still say the last few weeks is some of Pitino's finest work ever.

Scrap Irony
03-31-2012, 10:51 PM
Well, nevermind, then.

Thad Matta and the tOSU team vaporlocked.

Really poor coaching. Really poor thought process by every one of those guys.

Wow.

That's just nuts.

WVRed
03-31-2012, 11:25 PM
Well, nevermind, then.

Thad Matta and the tOSU team vaporlocked.

Really poor coaching. Really poor thought process by every one of those guys.

Wow.

That's just nuts.

That might have been the most horrible ending for tOSU. It's pretty bad when Clark Kellogg, an Ohio State homer, is calling out the team for arguing with the officials instead of fouling and letting the clock run out.

I was worried about Ohio State, but after watching the game I was hoping they would win. Kansas is the more athletic team and I think Kentucky would have beaten Ohio State.

traderumor
03-31-2012, 11:35 PM
The last few possessions were bad, but the story was that they went cold in the 2nd half to where the last two minutes would have been shooting free throws instead of high pressure possessions where you need a bucket. They missed some open shots. Craft challenging the big guy on the penetration several times didn't help either. The final turning point was when Craft had the shot blocked with about 2 minutes left on a possession where they had a chance to go up 5. It all fell apart from there.

Now for the final, unless Robinson has a historic game, it'll be Kentucky winning going away. I expect a beatdown.

HeatherC1212
04-01-2012, 12:03 AM
Well, winning my work bracket pool was fun while it lasted. It's not going to happen now. *sigh* :(

(((Buckeyes)))

Johnny Footstool
04-01-2012, 02:54 AM
The last few possessions were bad, but the story was that they went cold in the 2nd half to where the last two minutes would have been shooting free throws instead of high pressure possessions where you need a bucket. They missed some open shots. Craft challenging the big guy on the penetration several times didn't help either. The final turning point was when Craft had the shot blocked with about 2 minutes left on a possession where they had a chance to go up 5. It all fell apart from there.

Now for the final, unless Robinson has a historic game, it'll be Kentucky winning going away. I expect a beatdown.

Ohio State was headed towards a beatdown, up 13 in the 2nd half. Things didn't go as expected.

traderumor
04-01-2012, 09:28 AM
Ohio State was headed towards a beatdown, up 13 in the 2nd half. Things didn't go as expected.

The 13 point leads happened in the 1st half.

cincrazy
04-01-2012, 10:17 AM
I don't think the OSU-KU game really even mattered. I was disappointed the Bucks lost, but in my opinion UK is going to slaugther Kansas just as they would have done to OSU. They're the best team in college basketball and they have been all year. I don't even think it's close to be honest.

nmculbreth
04-01-2012, 12:00 PM
I don't think the OSU-KU game really even mattered. I was disappointed the Bucks lost, but in my opinion UK is going to slaugther Kansas just as they would have done to OSU. They're the best team in college basketball and they have been all year. I don't even think it's close to be honest.

Agreed. A full strength Syracuse team may have made things interesting but otherwise UK is in a class all by themselves.

traderumor
04-01-2012, 01:31 PM
I don't think the OSU-KU game really even mattered. I was disappointed the Bucks lost, but in my opinion UK is going to slaugther Kansas just as they would have done to OSU. They're the best team in college basketball and they have been all year. I don't even think it's close to be honest.OSU has not been blown out all year, so I figured they would have a nice comfy 10 point loss where they never had a legitimate chance, similar to the 2007 UF loss. But I didn't see them getting overwhelmed. Kansas won ugly last night, they lose by double digits if Ohio State played similar halves.

I just think it will get ugly as Davis takes away Robinson. Ohio State didn't have the interior D to do that (a weakness I have on record somewhere, prob. the Buckeyes thread). UK does. And Kansas literally has nothing else.

Razor Shines
04-02-2012, 02:36 PM
I just found out that if UK wins tonight I win my bracket challenge with some friends and $440. I stopped checking it after the first weekend assuming I was out of it. Lol. So go Big Blue.

Hoosier Red
04-02-2012, 02:40 PM
I just found out that if UK wins tonight I win my bracket challenge with some friends and $440. I stopped checking it after the first weekend assuming I was out of it. Lol. So go Big Blue.

Sell out;)

Razor Shines
04-02-2012, 02:48 PM
Sell out;)

It doesn't feel good, but a little cash would make it go down easier.

NJReds
04-02-2012, 09:28 PM
Can they tip this game already? It should have started an hour ago.

Cedric
04-02-2012, 09:55 PM
Who gets this title in 2015? I assume Bill Self and KU won't take it.

Stray
04-02-2012, 10:20 PM
Kansas got some junk buckets at the end of the half when Jones and Davis were out or this thing would be a 20 point game.

If those two guys can stay on the floor in the 2nd half it might get really ugly.

The Operator
04-02-2012, 10:35 PM
Alright, enough of the chirping back and forth. Let's keep this thread civil and fun.

texasdave
04-02-2012, 11:20 PM
Congrats, Wildcats! Everyone else is pretty much zzzzing by now.

WMR
04-02-2012, 11:42 PM
:D

8 is great!

What an exhilarating ride...

The Operator
04-03-2012, 12:24 AM
Doubt I'll get to sleep any time soon, what with the car horns, screaming, etc. outside my window. Which I'm A-OK with.

Number Eight!

George Foster
04-03-2012, 01:58 AM
:D

8 is great!

What an exhilarating ride...got to leave Louisiana in 5 hours....what a weekend....beating Louisville and Kansas to win the national championship and I saw it in person.....awesome! !!

George Foster
04-03-2012, 02:01 AM
And another SEC school wins another national title....

Johnny Footstool
04-03-2012, 02:40 AM
Thanks, Jayhawks, for a great ride. You played better than you were. You played ugly, played tough, and earned every victory. You did this for us. For everyone who set foot on Mt. Oread, for everyone who bought a Jayhawk t-shirt, for everyone who ever said, "Muck Fizzou." Thanks, "least talented Kansas team in 20 years," for showing the world that we're not quitters, we're not chokers. We're Jayhawks, and we're great. Even when we're not supposed to be.

Todd Gack
04-03-2012, 07:43 AM
It was nice seeing a decently-played national championship game.

Roy Tucker
04-03-2012, 08:42 AM
Congrats to UK. Kansas played about as well as they could, but UK had just a bit more firepower. Good ballgame and well-played.

Nice to see a player like Anthony Davis. He really controlled the defensive end with his rebounding, shot-blocking, and overall presence. They mentioned on the broadcast last night that Pitino made comparisons to Bill Russell which I thought was apropos.