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_Sir_Charles_
03-13-2012, 09:57 AM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7677864/2012-spring-training-chris-carpenter-bulging-disk-st-louis-cardinals-eye-plan-b


The St. Louis Cardinals are preparing a "Plan B" in case former Cy Young award winner Chris Carpenteris unable to recover from a bulging disk in his neck.

Carpenter left Friday's practice with a stiff neck. He was scheduled to pitch one of Monday's split-squad games, but the Cardinals decided to send Jaime Garcia to the mound against Atlanta and start rookie Shelby Miller, a former No. 1 pick, against Washington.


This is the kind of thing that can linger on for a LONG time. Considering the Cards lack of starter depth, this could be a body blow.

CySeymour
03-13-2012, 10:05 AM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7677864/2012-spring-training-chris-carpenter-bulging-disk-st-louis-cardinals-eye-plan-b



This is the kind of thing that can linger on for a LONG time. Considering the Cards lack of starter depth, this could be a body blow.

Could open the door for Oswalt heading to St. Louis

mattfeet
03-13-2012, 10:07 AM
Could open the door for Oswalt heading to St. Louis

I thought the same thing. We also all thought the Cards were done when they found out Wainwright was gone all last year. The Cards will still be tough, unfortunately.

-Matt

paulrichjr
03-13-2012, 12:11 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7677864/2012-spring-training-chris-carpenter-bulging-disk-st-louis-cardinals-eye-plan-b



This is the kind of thing that can linger on for a LONG time. Considering the Cards lack of starter depth, this could be a body blow.

What lack of starter depth? With their pitching on the farm and with Wainwright coming back this is not near the body blow a loss of Cueto or Latos would be to the Reds.

RedsManRick
03-13-2012, 12:17 PM
How will he explain this to his kid?

Sorry, had to be done.

PuffyPig
03-13-2012, 12:46 PM
What lack of starter depth? With their pitching on the farm and with Wainwright coming back this is not near the body blow a loss of Cueto or Latos would be to the Reds.

Next in line for the Card's starters is Lance Lynn and then likely McClennan.

The closest comp to Lance Lynn is likely Sam Lecure, who's stuff looks so much better as a reliever.

On the Farm, the Cards have two potential studs in Miller and Martinez, but neither is close to being ready for the start of the season. Miller will likely start in AA and Martinez in High A. Miller could move quickly though. The rest of the AAA starters are basically retreads or failures.

OldRightHander
03-13-2012, 01:00 PM
I hope most of their pitchers end up with sore necks this year, or at least mild whiplash.

Scrap Irony
03-13-2012, 01:18 PM
As to this injury, it's not 2012 Carpenter: 2011 Wainwright.

It's 2012 Carpenter: 2011 Arroyo.

Which is a good thing for Reds' fans.

Lingering but still "minor" ailments keeps Carpenter in the rotation.

Otherwise, you may get Miller or Oswalt. Which is likely going to be worse for Cincinnati.

PuffyPig
03-13-2012, 01:23 PM
As to this injury, it's not 2012 Carpenter: 2011 Wainwright.

It's 2012 Carpenter: 2011 Arroyo.

Which is a good thing for Reds' fans.

Lingering but still "minor" ailments keeps Carpenter in the rotation.

Otherwise, you may get Miller or Oswalt. Which is likely going to be worse for Cincinnati.

I'd take a healthy Carpenter over a 2012 Miller any day of the week. Few pitchers his age hit the major league ground running. Oswalk likely makes Carpenter seen healthy by comparison.

Col_ IN Reds fan
03-13-2012, 02:48 PM
I hope the guy never pithes again. I don't care who he plays for.

_Sir_Charles_
03-13-2012, 03:47 PM
Next in line for the Card's starters is Lance Lynn and then likely McClennan.

The closest comp to Lance Lynn is likely Sam Lecure, who's stuff looks so much better as a reliever.

On the Farm, the Cards have two potential studs in Miller and Martinez, but neither is close to being ready for the start of the season. Miller will likely start in AA and Martinez in High A. Miller could move quickly though. The rest of the AAA starters are basically retreads or failures.

This. They don't have much depth at all. The 2 kids, they're NOT going to rush them to fill in rotation holes. Not gonna happen.

757690
03-13-2012, 06:27 PM
Miller and Martinez are ranked about where Bailey and Cueto were ranked in pre 2007. Reds really didn't start to see real production from both of them until 2010. The Cards will be lucky if they get the same production from Miller and Martinez, which means nearly zero production this year.

wheels
03-13-2012, 11:15 PM
I really don't like that guy at all. I wouldn't shed a tear if he were to be hurt.

membengal
03-13-2012, 11:40 PM
I read the title too quick.

Rojo
03-13-2012, 11:51 PM
I read the title too quick.

:laugh:

Every time I log into Redzone, next to the ORG line it says "Chris Carpenter has bulging....."

Dan
03-14-2012, 07:36 AM
Sometimes when a person has acted like an ass in the past the best thing to do is kill 'em with kindness. As much as we don't care for Carpenter as a person and the Cardinals as an org, we shouldn't be the type of community that actively wishes ill will on anyone who is out there doing his best to make a living and continue his career.

Bob Borkowski
03-14-2012, 08:52 AM
Sometimes when a person has acted like an ass in the past the best thing to do is kill 'em with kindness. As much as we don't care for Carpenter as a person and the Cardinals as an org, we shouldn't be the type of community that actively wishes ill will on anyone who is out there doing his best to make a living and continue his career.

Amen, brother.

Roy Tucker
03-14-2012, 09:54 AM
Sometimes when a person has acted like an ass in the past the best thing to do is kill 'em with kindness. As much as we don't care for Carpenter as a person and the Cardinals as an org, we shouldn't be the type of community that actively wishes ill will on anyone who is out there doing his best to make a living and continue his career.

Very true. I never wish ill health or physical injury on any player.

But I also won't be sending him any get-well-soon cards either. Karma is a *****. You reap what you sow.

cumberlandreds
03-14-2012, 10:38 AM
I read the title too quick.

Yea me too. I was about to ask if it was pickle in his pocket or was he just happy to be back in camp. :p

MikeThierry
03-14-2012, 11:51 AM
Mo... get on the phone to Oswalt, someone you should have signed in the offseason regardless.

Still, bringing up Miller wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. He probably isn't ready yet but I prefer guys to get experience under fire than an organization baby a prospect through the process. Lance Lynn will also be an ok, serviceable replacement. Still, I am very critical of what is going on because Carpenter threw over 4000 pitches last season and guys who are 36 plus have a high likelyhood of breaking down next season. The organization should have signed Oswalt when the asking price was low. Now, they will probably have to sign Oswalt to what he was asking because it's an absolute need for the Cards. I like Mo but the forsight on this issue was blind in my opinion.

PuffyPig
03-14-2012, 12:40 PM
Oswalt of course also has huge injury concerns, which makes him perfect for the Cards, where every starter (pitching) has has serious injuries recently.

bucksfan2
03-14-2012, 12:46 PM
Mo... get on the phone to Oswalt, someone you should have signed in the offseason regardless.

Still, bringing up Miller wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. He probably isn't ready yet but I prefer guys to get experience under fire than an organization baby a prospect through the process. Lance Lynn will also be an ok, serviceable replacement. Still, I am very critical of what is going on because Carpenter threw over 4000 pitches last season and guys who are 36 plus have a high likelyhood of breaking down next season. The organization should have signed Oswalt when the asking price was low. Now, they will probably have to sign Oswalt to what he was asking because it's an absolute need for the Cards. I like Mo but the forsight on this issue was blind in my opinion.

There is a reason why no team went out and signed Oswalt. I wasn't expecting a healthy season from Carpenter this year. Father time is undefeated and he threw a tremendous amount of pitches, games on short rest, throught the playoffs. The result was ideal, but I think he is going to pay the price this year and probably for the rest of his career.

MikeThierry
03-14-2012, 01:29 PM
The biggest strength the Cards have is their rotation. Any injury to their top five is a potentially huge issue that would likely impact the playoff race.


You know though, I thought they would be a 2nd or 3rd place team when Wainwright was out last year so who knows. Projections are a bit iffy. I do think that the Cards bullpen is significantly improved from last year's abomination (Ryan Franklin anyone?). That alone will probably help them save more games than last year. I'm also intrigued by Shelby Miller. He probably isn't ready but he is still probably better than what the Cards had last year with Kyle McClellan or even their current idea of bringing Lance Lynn into the rotation.

MikeThierry
03-14-2012, 01:33 PM
Another thing that all teams have to take into consideration is the second wild card. Even if teams have problems in their rotation, they aren't going to be pushing their veteran pitching as hard as they would in previous years or they aren't automatically out of the playoff race. If the Cards lose Carpenter, it's not the end all because there is some wiggle room to still make the playoffs even if a replacement level pitcher takes his innings. Same thing with the Reds. If for some reason Arroyo doesn't make a comeback, the Reds aren't screwed. There is still a path to the playoffs for the Reds in this scenario as well. This is one of the reasons why I'm sort of a fan of the second wild card.

_Sir_Charles_
03-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Mo... get on the phone to Oswalt, someone you should have signed in the offseason regardless.

Still, bringing up Miller wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. He probably isn't ready yet but I prefer guys to get experience under fire than an organization baby a prospect through the process. Lance Lynn will also be an ok, serviceable replacement. Still, I am very critical of what is going on because Carpenter threw over 4000 pitches last season and guys who are 36 plus have a high likelyhood of breaking down next season. The organization should have signed Oswalt when the asking price was low. Now, they will probably have to sign Oswalt to what he was asking because it's an absolute need for the Cards. I like Mo but the forsight on this issue was blind in my opinion.

Homer Bailey says "hi". Letting a pitcher adjust to each level is usually a good thing for that pitcher. Putting them at a place that they're not ready for will only hurt their confidence going forward.

MikeThierry
03-14-2012, 02:22 PM
Homer Bailey says "hi". Letting a pitcher adjust to each level is usually a good thing for that pitcher. Putting them at a place that they're not ready for will only hurt their confidence going forward.


That's a fair point. I think though that you have to take it from a case by case standpoint. Miller has the kind of stuff where his raw talent can get him a lot of outs. He is a power pitcher and struck out 170 batters last season, granted at AA. Bailey seems to be the kind of pitcher which requires finese to get guys out. There isn't anything wrong with that but I think it's fair to say that those pitchers take a bit longer to develop than a pitcher that can just blow people away with a fastball or a devistating curve like Miller has.

cincrazy
03-14-2012, 02:32 PM
That's a fair point. I think though that you have to take it from a case by case standpoint. Miller has the kind of stuff where his raw talent can get him a lot of outs. He is a power pitcher and struck out 170 batters last season, granted at AA. Bailey seems to be the kind of pitcher which requires finese to get guys out. There isn't anything wrong with that but I think it's fair to say that those pitchers take a bit longer to develop than a pitcher that can just blow people away with a fastball or a devistating curve like Miller has.

Actually, Homer is a power pitcher himself. He primarily used his fastball when he came up, and it took him forever to successfully develop another pitch, let alone locate his fastball. Homer's K numbers in the majors don't look all that great, but he's been trying to figure things out after being rushed. He had no problem setting guys aside in the minors.

PuffyPig
03-14-2012, 02:35 PM
That's a fair point. I think though that you have to take it from a case by case standpoint. Miller has the kind of stuff where his raw talent can get him a lot of outs. He is a power pitcher and struck out 170 batters last season, granted at AA. Bailey seems to be the kind of pitcher which requires finese to get guys out. There isn't anything wrong with that but I think it's fair to say that those pitchers take a bit longer to develop than a pitcher that can just blow people away with a fastball or a devistating curve like Miller has.

Bailey certainly came into the bigs with an exploding fastball and a big curve. He was striking out batters at a better than 1 per inning in the minors too.

Coming up to the bigs and relying on stuff is foolish.

There are hundreds of pitchers which great raw stuff who never amount to anything.

MikeThierry
03-14-2012, 02:50 PM
Actually, Homer is a power pitcher himself. He primarily used his fastball when he came up, and it took him forever to successfully develop another pitch, let alone locate his fastball. Homer's K numbers in the majors don't look all that great, but he's been trying to figure things out after being rushed. He had no problem setting guys aside in the minors.

Shelby Miller already has two "out pitches" and his changeup is on the verge of being an out pitch. His changeup is still a plus pitch. That is one of the reasons he is rated the #1 right handed pitching prospect in baseball, by most scouts and experts. Miller probably needs to learn a 4th "out pitch" but I think it's also fair to say that Miller would probably be better than many 4th or 5th place pitchers on most teams. I really don't have a problem with the Cards putting him in the rotation if something drastic happened to Carpenter.

Reading the scouting reports of Bailey, he was mainly a two pitch pitcher when he was drafted and that his changeup was something that he was still developing at the time. Miller already had a refined changeup when he was drafted by the Cards. From that standpoint, Miller is ahead of the curb in his career than Bailey was at the same point. Isn't it also fair to say that injuries have really hurt Bailey's development as well? I have a feeling that if Bailey could just pitch on a more consistent basis, he would be a much better pitcher now.

By the way, I'm hearing reports that Carpenter is throwing the ball around and that this thing might just be a minor flare up. It's something of concern but not as bad as original reported. I just find it shocking that the media would blow something like this out of proportion... they never do that :)

757690
03-14-2012, 03:06 PM
Shelby Miller already has two "out pitches" and his changeup is on the verge of being an out pitch. His changeup is still a plus pitch. That is one of the reasons he is rated the #1 right handed pitching prospect in baseball, by most scouts and experts. Miller probably needs to learn a 4th "out pitch" but I think it's also fair to say that Miller would probably be better than many 4th or 5th place pitchers on most teams. I really don't have a problem with the Cards putting him in the rotation if something drastic happened to Carpenter.

Reading the scouting reports of Bailey, he was mainly a two pitch pitcher when he was drafted and that his changeup was something that he was still developing at the time. Miller already had a refined changeup when he was drafted by the Cards. From that standpoint, Miller is ahead of the curb in his career than Bailey was at the same point. Isn't it also fair to say that injuries have really hurt Bailey's development as well? I have a feeling that if Bailey could just pitch on a more consistent basis, he would be a much better pitcher now.

By the way, I'm hearing reports that Carpenter is throwing the ball around and that this thing might just be a minor flare up. It's something of concern but not as bad as original reported. I just find it shocking that the media would blow something like this out of proportion... they never do that :)

Bailey was ranked as the fourth best prospect in all of baseball in 2007. He always had plenty of stuff, probably more than Miller has now. His biggest issues were being rushed, and not listening to coaches. Miller is reportedly more mature mentally at the same stage, which is all the more reason not to rush him.

Still for around every four or five pitching prospects like Miller and Bailey, only one usually becomes a true TOR starter in the bigs. Remember, there's no such thing as a pitching prospect. ;)

757690
03-14-2012, 03:09 PM
I read the title too quick.

If that was the case, it would be really easy to explain it to his son...

"Son, Daddy took too many little blue pills." ;)

MikeThierry
03-14-2012, 03:15 PM
Bailey was ranked as the fourth best prospect in all of baseball in 2007. He always had plenty of stuff, probably more than Miller has now. His biggest issues were being rushed, and not listening to coaches. Miller is reportedly more mature mentally at the same stage, which is all the more reason not to rush him.

Still for around every four or five pitching prospects like Miller and Bailey, only one usually becomes a true TOR starter in the bigs. Remember, there's no such thing as a pitching prospect. ;)

Good points but still.... look at it from my perspective. Would you rather have Shelby Miller over Westbrook? That is a resounding YES in my eyes, lol. I would much rather have a guy who can strike out someone than have a sinker baller who almost looked scared to throw strikes last year. Westbrook makes Cards fans resort to drinking sometimes. I know I polished of a bottle or two of Captain Morgan watching him pitch. For my own SANITY bring in Shelby Miller if Carpenter can't go, haha :laugh:

757690
03-14-2012, 04:02 PM
Good points but still.... look at it from my perspective. Would you rather have Shelby Miller over Westbrook? That is a resounding YES in my eyes, lol. I would much rather have a guy who can strike out someone than have a sinker baller who almost looked scared to throw strikes last year. Westbrook makes Cards fans resort to drinking sometimes. I know I polished of a bottle or two of Captain Morgan watching him pitch. For my own SANITY bring in Shelby Miller if Carpenter can't go, haha :laugh:

What's scary is that Westbrook would have been the Reds opening day starter just a few years ago. Lol.

In all seriousness, I'm glad Carpenter is feeling better. I would hate for Cardinal fans to use an injury as an excuse for them failing to make the playoffs this year ;)

camisadelgolf
03-14-2012, 04:07 PM
Here are a few things I've observed about Homer Bailey:
He was called up at least one year prematurely.
His changeup is terrible, and he has no reason to throw it.
His slider was a big work in progress when he was first recalled, and now it's a very good pitch.
His split-fingered fastball is largely responsible for his recent success.
He overused his curveball in the minors, and when Major League hitters demolished it, he lost all his confidence in it. (Since then, he has regained most of his confidence in it.)
His breaking stuff has improved dramatically, and as a result, he's less reliant on the fastball.
His peripherals imply that he is bound to have a breakout year.

Since the middle of 2009, the Reds have won more than 60% of the games in which Bailey has pitched, and I think that even includes some streaks of bad luck. He'll be fine. But his success isn't because of all the amazing things he accomplished when he was in the low minors. He has made a ton of adjustments, and that's what's responsible for a lot of his recent success. Does Shelby Miller have adjustments to make? You bet. But I'd wager they aren't as dramatic as the ones Bailey needed to make. Bailey was asked to change his mechanics, his pitching repertoire, his attitude, and pretty much everything else. Miller is more advanced for his age, but it's far from a guarantee that he will be successful. However, I think it'll be an easier path for him to stick to a Major League roster than it was for Bailey.

Boss-Hog
03-14-2012, 04:09 PM
The situation many witnessed has been addressed and the related posts have been deleted. Please continue with the on topic discussion.

MikeThierry
03-14-2012, 04:46 PM
What's scary is that Westbrook would have been the Reds opening day starter just a few years ago. Lol.

In all seriousness, I'm glad Carpenter is feeling better. I would hate for Cardinal fans to use an injury as an excuse for them failing to make the playoffs this year ;)

.... really? Wow... I'm surprised most of you aren't alcoholics right now after witnessing that mess, haha :)

kaldaniels
03-14-2012, 04:47 PM
The situation many witnessed has been addressed and the related posts have been deleted. Please continue with the on topic discussion.

Man I'm always late to the party. (no clue what happened)

Oh and uh, losing Carpenter would really hurt the Cards.

The Operator
03-14-2012, 04:55 PM
.... really? Wow... I'm surprised most of you aren't alcoholics right now after witnessing that mess, haha :)Who's to say we aren't? :beerme:

OldRightHander
03-14-2012, 05:50 PM
Man I'm always late to the party. (no clue what happened)

Oh and uh, losing Carpenter would really hurt the Cards.

Mike was treated to a bit of uncalled for rudeness and was gracious enough not to respond in kind.

kaldaniels
03-14-2012, 06:50 PM
Mike was treated to a bit of uncalled for rudeness and was gracious enough not to respond in kind.

A tip of the hat to Mike in that case.

MikeThierry
03-14-2012, 07:55 PM
Its all good lol :D


I'm really saddened though that a golden comedic opportunity is passed up here in the Red Zone. Carp has a pain in the neck.... hello! There are so many ways you can take that. I expect better play on words here in this forum from now on, haha :)

OldRightHander
03-14-2012, 08:10 PM
Its all good lol :D


I'm really saddened though that a golden comedic opportunity is passed up here in the Red Zone. Carp has a pain in the neck.... hello! There are so many ways you can take that. I expect better play on words here in this forum from now on, haha :)

Yeah, I made a lame attempt a couple pages back. I'm hoping he pitches all year, and has a sore neck from repeatedly turning his head to see where it will land.

mth123
03-14-2012, 08:22 PM
Sometimes when a person has acted like an ass in the past the best thing to do is kill 'em with kindness. As much as we don't care for Carpenter as a person and the Cardinals as an org, we shouldn't be the type of community that actively wishes ill will on anyone who is out there doing his best to make a living and continue his career.

:thumbup:

Bravo. Eveyone on this board should explain civil behavior as suggested here to his own son.

_Sir_Charles_
03-14-2012, 08:57 PM
That's a fair point. I think though that you have to take it from a case by case standpoint. Miller has the kind of stuff where his raw talent can get him a lot of outs. He is a power pitcher and struck out 170 batters last season, granted at AA. Bailey seems to be the kind of pitcher which requires finese to get guys out. There isn't anything wrong with that but I think it's fair to say that those pitchers take a bit longer to develop than a pitcher that can just blow people away with a fastball or a devistating curve like Miller has.


Definitely not the case. Especially with regards to his MiLB resume (which is all we have to work with in regards to Shelby). IMO they're very comparable pitchers if you look at them at the stage Shelby's at. Rushing Homer was probably the absolutely worst thing they could've done with him. Except for maybe pitching him in that extra inning game in SD a couple years back. I guess that would've been worse. *grin*

_Sir_Charles_
03-14-2012, 09:02 PM
Good points but still.... look at it from my perspective. Would you rather have Shelby Miller over Westbrook? That is a resounding YES in my eyes, lol. I would much rather have a guy who can strike out someone than have a sinker baller who almost looked scared to throw strikes last year. Westbrook makes Cards fans resort to drinking sometimes. I know I polished of a bottle or two of Captain Morgan watching him pitch. For my own SANITY bring in Shelby Miller if Carpenter can't go, haha :laugh:

This is all true, but we Reds fans were saying the same thing back with Homer. Jeez, wouldn't we love to see Bailey over "joe-schmoe". Our entire staff was 5 "joe-schmoe"'s...well, until Harangatang I guess.

_Sir_Charles_
03-14-2012, 09:04 PM
.... really? Wow... I'm surprised most of you aren't alcoholics right now after witnessing that mess, haha :)

You're assuming we aren't. I'm taking my whiskey through an I.V. these days. :p

PuffyPig
03-14-2012, 09:07 PM
Shelby Miller was reassigned to the minors today, so obviously the Cards have no plans of bringing him up anytime soon.

_Sir_Charles_
03-14-2012, 09:08 PM
Shelby Miller was reassigned to the minors today, so obviously the Cards have no plans of bringing him up anytime soon.

I doubt he'll agree with me, but this is probably the best thing to possibly happen to Shelby.

MikeThierry
03-15-2012, 11:38 AM
I doubt he'll agree with me, but this is probably the best thing to possibly happen to Shelby.

I don't think there is need to rush him if Carpenter is going to be ready in the first month. If Carpenter is out for an extended period of time, 2 months or more, than I think the Cards really have to think about it. As of right now, I think you are spot on Sir Charles.

MikeThierry
03-15-2012, 11:47 AM
Also, my perception of Bailey may have been influenced by his pitching performances with the Cardinals. It seems that when he pitched against them, he wasn't really blowing away Cardinals hitters with a fast ball but relied on finese to get batters out.

PuffyPig
03-15-2012, 12:38 PM
I don't think there is need to rush him if Carpenter is going to be ready in the first month.

I don't think they have any idea if Carpenter will be ready for opening day.

One think is clear, they've announced that Lance Lynn will be stretched out and given first opportunity to take over Carpenter's spot (if needed) , and Miller has been reassigned to the minor league camp.

It's clear that little thought was given to having Miller make the team out of camp. It may have been based on his dismal showing to date, but it was probably related more to the fact they they are aware he simply needs more seasoning.

MikeThierry
03-15-2012, 02:05 PM
I don't think they have any idea if Carpenter will be ready for opening day.

One think is clear, they've announced that Lance Lynn will be stretched out and given first opportunity to take over Carpenter's spot (if needed) , and Miller has been reassigned to the minor league camp.

It's clear that little thought was given to having Miller make the team out of camp. It may have been based on his dismal showing to date, but it was probably related more to the fact they they are aware he simply needs more seasoning.

Lance Lynn is also an adiquate replacement if the Cards need a couple of starts from someone other than their regular rotion. I actually trust Lynn more than I do McClellan because Lynn has nastier stuff and can strike people out with his mid-90's fast ball. I don't know if it makes sense to start the clock on Miller if he is only going to be there for 3-5 starts. By all indications, Carpenter is feeling better and it's not as bad as originally reported. Like I said earlier, I'm absolutely shocked that the media would blow things way out of proportion...

PuffyPig
03-15-2012, 04:37 PM
Lance Lynn is also an adiquate replacement if the Cards need a couple of starts from someone other than their regular rotion. I actually trust Lynn more than I do McClellan because Lynn has nastier stuff and can strike people out with his mid-90's fast ball. I don't know if it makes sense to start the clock on Miller if he is only going to be there for 3-5 starts. By all indications, Carpenter is feeling better and it's not as bad as originally reported. Like I said earlier, I'm absolutely shocked that the media would blow things way out of proportion...

Thye question is whether Lynn will maintain his fastball as a starter.

In AAA, Lynn managed to get his fastball up to the mid 90's, but it was up in the zone and he gave up quite a few HR's. You do that in the majors and he won't be in the rotation for long.

McClennan is a replacement level starter. His 12 wins last year is a good endorsement that wins for a starter are pretty meaningless. He had 1 more win than Carpenter. And it's why the cards are giving Lynn a chance over Kyle.

REDblooded
03-16-2012, 01:05 AM
IIRC, the biggest thing that hurt Bailey was the Reds changing his delivery to try to help him hold runners... His motion was a bit long and slow and they tried to correct it to get him to be quicker to the plate... It caused him to lose a bit of velocity, and probably led to some of the injury issues he's had since...

He was mishandled.

camisadelgolf
03-16-2012, 02:09 AM
IIRC, the biggest thing that hurt Bailey was the Reds changing his delivery to try to help him hold runners... His motion was a bit long and slow and they tried to correct it to get him to be quicker to the plate... It caused him to lose a bit of velocity, and probably led to some of the injury issues he's had since...

He was mishandled.
It's premature to say he was mishandled, although there's a good chance he was.

corkedbat
03-16-2012, 02:15 AM
Walt should be on the phone to Oswalt tonight - just for pure meanness. :evil:

MikeThierry
03-16-2012, 12:05 PM
McClennan is a replacement level starter. His 12 wins last year is a good endorsement that wins for a starter are pretty meaningless. He had 1 more win than Carpenter. And it's why the cards are giving Lynn a chance over Kyle.

The other thing about McClellan is that they had to change his mechanics in the starting pitching role. His delivery is such where it gave him hip problems with prolonged innings as a starter.

PuffyPig
03-16-2012, 02:49 PM
The other thing about McClellan is that they had to change his mechanics in the starting pitching role. His delivery is such where it gave him hip problems with prolonged innings as a starter.

McClennan was pretty much a replacement level reliever too.

His lifetime WAR is +0.1.

MikeThierry
03-16-2012, 04:26 PM
McClennan was pretty much a replacement level reliever too.

His lifetime WAR is +0.1.

That's not true. His lifetime WAR as a full time reliever is a +.8 Last year when he started he had a horrible season. It's why he was a -.6 WAR last season. When his full time, known role was in the bullpen, he has been a plus pitcher. Plus, if you look at his split, they're just odd. He is one of those rare right handed relievers where left handed batters do not really hit well off of. In his career, left handed batters OPS more than 100 points less off of him than right handed batters do.

REDblooded
03-17-2012, 03:19 AM
It's premature to say he was mishandled, although there's a good chance he was.

Any dispute that his setback's were possibly attributed to him shortening his motion?

camisadelgolf
03-17-2012, 09:30 AM
Any dispute that his setback's were possibly attributed to him shortening his motion?
Not from me. He had about every possible setback you could have. A lot of guys would've given up on baseball by now. Maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but I'd understand being frustrated if I were treated the same way Bailey was.

757690
03-21-2012, 03:47 PM
Carpenter will likely start the season on the DL. The big question is for how long.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/carpenter-returns-to-st-louis/article_6170f614-734f-11e1-8dca-0019bb30f31a.html#.T2nNSaXHecw.twitter

RedsManRick
03-21-2012, 03:52 PM
I drafted him in a fantasy league as a way of ensuring he'd stay injured/ineffective. Was that wrong?

Reds/Flyers Fan
03-21-2012, 04:05 PM
Thankfully Johnny Gomes isn't here this year to go whistling and singing through the clubhouse.

camisadelgolf
03-21-2012, 07:37 PM
I drafted him in a fantasy league as a way of ensuring he'd stay injured/ineffective. Was that wrong?
Seeing as how we're in the same league, I encourage you to also obtain Jon Jay, Kyle Lohse, Jake Westbrook, and the entire bench.

RedsManRick
03-22-2012, 12:01 AM
Seeing as how we're in the same league, I encourage you to also obtain Jon Jay, Kyle Lohse, Jake Westbrook, and the entire bench.

Hehe. No, I actually don't mind drafting a guy or two who starts the season on the DL -- I can add a replacement immediately and then have the first crack on at him when/if he's ready.

mattfeet
03-23-2012, 10:58 PM
According to Yahoo, Carpenter will be out a minimum of 2 months, and likely "indefinitely".

-Matt

mbgrayson
03-23-2012, 11:33 PM
According to Yahoo, Carpenter will be out a minimum of 2 months, and likely "indefinitely".

-Matt

I think he should just 'pitch through' the pain. Pain is just weakness leaving your body...

camisadelgolf
06-29-2012, 11:06 PM
Carpenter was diagnosed with thoracic outlet syndrome.
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120629&content_id=34158244&notebook_id=34163056&vkey=notebook_stl&c_id=stl

PuffyPig
06-29-2012, 11:10 PM
Bulging disc?

What will Mrs. Carpenter say?

fearofpopvol1
06-30-2012, 12:28 AM
Carpenter was diagnosed with thoracic outlet syndrome.
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120629&content_id=34158244&notebook_id=34163056&vkey=notebook_stl&c_id=stl

I hate to be the one to ask this tiring question, but how will he explain this to his son?

Vottomatic
07-03-2012, 02:29 PM
http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=796047-cardinals-chris-carpenter-considering-surgery

Carpenter considering season ending surgery.

Tornon
07-03-2012, 09:43 PM
It's official, Carp is done for the year

marcshoe
07-03-2012, 09:54 PM
It's official, Carp is done for the year

When I saw this thread had been bumped I figured he'd been named to the all star team.;)

Always Red
07-03-2012, 09:54 PM
Removing 1st rib is big surgery.

He'll do it soon in order to try to play next year.

Say what you want about Carpenter; the dude is very competitive, and tough as nails.

PuffyPig
07-03-2012, 10:09 PM
Say what you want about Carpenter; the dude is very competitive, and tough as nails.

"Tough as nails" doesn't whine and cry like a little baby when things don't go well for you.

He's competitive, but only in that annoying way people are when they have a supreme sense of entitlement.

Always Red
07-03-2012, 10:18 PM
"Tough as nails" doesn't whine and cry like a little baby when things don't go well for you.

He's competitive, but only in that annoying way people are when they have a supreme sense of entitlement.

I know what you mean, but still...the dude is a competitor.

I'd like him if he were a Red.

MikeThierry
07-03-2012, 10:23 PM
"Tough as nails" doesn't whine and cry like a little baby when things don't go well for you.

He's competitive, but only in that annoying way people are when they have a supreme sense of entitlement.

When has he cried when things didn't go his way? If you had a Reds pitcher do what he did for the Cardinals down the stretch run last year as well as out duel the best pitcher in baseball in an elimination game, you would feel differently.

Still... I don't know how he's going to explain this surgery to his son.

cumberlandreds
07-03-2012, 10:23 PM
I know what you mean, but still...the dude is a competitor.

I'd like him if he were a Red.

He whines and cries about certain things but when he's on that mound he is one tough dude. If he's on your team you love him. If not you hate him. Saying that, season ending surgery couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. ;)

Tom Servo
07-03-2012, 10:34 PM
When has he cried when things didn't go his way?


St. Louis starter Chris Carpenter complained about the balls being slick after the Cardinals' 11-6 win on Monday.

Carpenter said some of the balls felt as if they hadn't been rubbed up with mud, which takes the shine off them. The job is usually done in the umpires' room before games.

Carpenter said the same thing about the baseballs following his final 2009 appearance at Great American Ball Park.


A poorly conditioned mound bothered Chris Carpenter in the first inning. Lingering smoke from fireworks celebrating Ramon Hernandez' home run irritated him in the third.

PuffyPig
07-03-2012, 10:37 PM
He whines and cries about certain things but when he's on that mound he is one tough dude. If he's on your team you love him.

Unless you make an error behind him, or bring the wrong glove onto the field. Ask Brendan Ryan.

kbrake
07-03-2012, 11:10 PM
Plenty of Cardinals fans were growing tired of his act before the playoffs last season. I'm sure now they will say he is just one of those guys that when he is on your team you like him but that hasn't always been the case for St. Louis fans.

jojo
07-03-2012, 11:48 PM
I'll never understand this obsession some Reds fans have with Carpenter.

RedlegJake
07-04-2012, 02:56 AM
I'd love to have Carpenter on my team. Just sayin'. He can whine all day while he shuts down the other guy.

mth123
07-04-2012, 04:24 AM
I'd love to have Carpenter on my team. Just sayin'. He can whine all day while he shuts down the other guy.

+1.

Chip R
07-04-2012, 11:28 AM
When I saw this thread had been bumped I figured he'd been named to the all star team.;)

Well, he's not scheduled to pitch the Sunday before.

Captain Hook
07-04-2012, 02:17 PM
I'll never understand this obsession some Reds fans have with Carpenter.

It's just one of those things you can't explain.:D

Degenerate39
07-04-2012, 03:31 PM
It's just one of those things you can't explain.:D

Even to Carpenter's son?

The Operator
07-04-2012, 06:22 PM
Well, he's not scheduled to pitch the Sunday before.ZING!

MikeThierry
07-05-2012, 01:39 PM
Quote:
St. Louis starter Chris Carpenter complained about the balls being slick after the Cardinals' 11-6 win on Monday.

Carpenter said some of the balls felt as if they hadn't been rubbed up with mud, which takes the shine off them. The job is usually done in the umpires' room before games.

Carpenter said the same thing about the baseballs following his final 2009 appearance at Great American Ball Park.

Quote:
A poorly conditioned mound bothered Chris Carpenter in the first inning. Lingering smoke from fireworks celebrating Ramon Hernandez' home run irritated him in the third.


Yes, because no pitcher in the history of baseball has ever had dirt put on the mound because it was rainy......... *rolls eyes

It's amazing when Chris Carpenter does something that every pitcher in baseball has the right to do, it gets criticized as whining but if someone else does it, nobody is concerned.

John Smoltz had problems with the balls in Cincy so it was a legit issue. Those issues seemed to have been solved in recent years and there hasn't been an issue.

I will say that Carpenter yelling at players does get old but I never felt he was whining about anything.

MikeThierry
07-05-2012, 01:41 PM
Oh, and in that firework incedent, the umpire stopped the game briefly. It wasn't anything on Carpenter's part. I know the Reds broadcaster went crazy over it but he clearly didn't have all the facts in the matter.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 01:52 PM
Oh, and in that firework incedent, the umpire stopped the game briefly. It wasn't anything on Carpenter's part. I know the Reds broadcaster went crazy over it but he clearly didn't have all the facts in the matter.I was at that game.

The ump may have stopped play, but only because Carpenter stood down off the mound and refused to pitch.

oregonred
07-05-2012, 01:55 PM
I'll never understand this obsession some Reds fans have with Carpenter.

Carpenter derangement syndrome? I hate the guy but he's been nails in the postseason and played a big role in delivering two (highly improbable) WS championships in the clutch.

I will wager that the Cardinals will find Carpenter's replacement starting in 2013. First name starts with Z and last name with a G. Hope I'm way off-base as that would not be good.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 01:58 PM
Yes, because no pitcher in the history of baseball has ever had dirt put on the mound because it was rainy......... *rolls eyes

It's amazing when Chris Carpenter does something that every pitcher in baseball has the right to do, it gets criticized as whining but if someone else does it, nobody is concerned.It's always something with Carpenter though. Every single time. The balls aren't rubbed the right way. The mound isn't the right height (and I'm not talking about during the rain. He literally claimed the Reds ground crew didn't know how to properly build a mound to the correct height once, calling them "unprofessional".). The fireworks are too smokey. Waaaaaaah.


John Smoltz had problems with the balls in Cincy so it was a legit issue. Those issues seemed to have been solved in recent years and there hasn't been an issue.Notice that John Smoltz pitched at GABP before, but he only started having problems with the balls after he became a Cardinal. Coincidence?


I will say that Carpenter yelling at players does get old but I never felt he was whining about anything.Yelling, whining, same thing. You should never, ever, ever show up your own teammates. I wonder how he'd like it if Brendan Ryan glared at him and ran his mouth after Carpenter gave up a home run in a key spot.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 02:02 PM
My favorite Carpenter moment was him claiming that Johnny Cueto's kicking incident would never go over in a street fight. Yea Chris, I'm sure you witnessed lots of street fighting up there in Exeter, NH at your private school. Guy is an LOL a minute.

MikeThierry
07-05-2012, 02:29 PM
It's always something with Carpenter though. Every single time. The balls aren't rubbed the right way. The mound isn't the right height (and I'm not talking about during the rain. He literally claimed the Reds ground crew didn't know how to properly build a mound to the correct height once, calling them "unprofessional".). The fireworks are too smokey. Waaaaaaah.

Notice that John Smoltz pitched at GABP before, but he only started having problems with the balls after he became a Cardinal. Coincidence?

Yelling, whining, same thing. You should never, ever, ever show up your own teammates. I wonder how he'd like it if Brendan Ryan glared at him and ran his mouth after Carpenter gave up a home run in a key spot.

Ryan deserved to be yelled at. Loved his talent but he's like a 3 year old that keeps turning off the TV when you're trying to watch it. That game was an important, playoff type game and for a player to get the wrong glove in inexcusable. It showed Ryan's head wasn't in it, which could have had shown it's ugly head within the game. I'm not for babying players or giving them orange slices at the end of games. These guys are supposed to be ready at every single moment in the game. When it's not, that leads to teams losing. The reason why Ryan was moved is because team mates did not like his mental preparation. Players actually went to TLR and requested that the Cards trade him because of this factor.

What Carpenter has told the local media here pertaining to the firework incedent is that the umpire told him something to the effect of "hey Carp, you don't have to pitch through this. Wait until it clears up a bit". Yes, you may have been there but you have no idea what was said on the mound.

I love this forum but people here tend to make a mole hill into a mountain with Chris Carpenter. Looking at some of these comments, it's almost a chronic mental illness to be honest with you. Pretty comical in my opinion.

MikeThierry
07-05-2012, 02:30 PM
My favorite Carpenter moment was him claiming that Johnny Cueto's kicking incident would never go over in a street fight. Yea Chris, I'm sure you witnessed lots of street fighting up there in Exeter, NH at your private school. Guy is an LOL a minute.

Umm... he was a hockey player so I'd imagine he was in a lot of fights.

cincrazy
07-05-2012, 02:38 PM
Ryan deserved to be yelled at. Loved his talent but he's like a 3 year old that keeps turning off the TV when you're trying to watch it. That game was an important, playoff type game and for a player to get the wrong glove in inexcusable. It showed Ryan's head wasn't in it, which could have had shown it's ugly head within the game. I'm not for babying players or giving them orange slices at the end of games. These guys are supposed to be ready at every single moment in the game. When it's not, that leads to teams losing. The reason why Ryan was moved is because team mates did not like his mental preparation. Players actually went to TLR and requested that the Cards trade him because of this factor.

What Carpenter has told the local media here pertaining to the firework incedent is that the umpire told him something to the effect of "hey Carp, you don't have to pitch through this. Wait until it clears up a bit". Yes, you may have been there but you have no idea what was said on the mound.

I love this forum but people here tend to make a mole hill into a mountain with Chris Carpenter. Looking at some of these comments, it's almost a chronic mental illness to be honest with you. Pretty comical in my opinion.

Mike, if Carpenter had a problem with Ryan's mental preparation, he should have addressed that in the clubhouse or in the dugout. Look, I can understand you defending Carp. I would too if he was my guy. Reds fans only hate him because he's stuck it to us for so many years. Fact. But with that being said, I don't feel that it's ever ok to show up a teammate the way he did on the field that day. To me, that's just as inexcusable as Ryan's lack of mental preparation.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 03:13 PM
What Carpenter has told the local media here pertaining to the firework incedent is that the umpire told him something to the effect of "hey Carp, you don't have to pitch through this. Wait until it clears up a bit". Yes, you may have been there but you have no idea what was said on the mound. That's what HE says happened when he was called out on it. It's sorta like how every guy in prison claims they were framed. Of course he's going to say he didn't do it.


Looking at some of these comments, it's almost a chronic mental illness to be honest with you. Pretty comical in my opinion.You may want to re-think using the term "chronic mental illness". Not sure that you can equate hating another team's player with bi-polar syndrome or schizophrenia. But to each his own I suppose.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 03:14 PM
Umm... he was a hockey player so I'd imagine he was in a lot of fights.Yea, high school hockey isn't quite the brawl-fest that the pro game is. Especially in Exeter NH I'd imagine.

Even then, that's fighting in an organized sports setting. Exactly the same as the Reds-Cardinals brawl. Carpenter was referring to fight in THE STREETS. Which, coming from an upper-class area not exactly known for its street fighting chops, is quite the laughtastic statement.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 03:16 PM
Ryan deserved to be yelled at. .There is no excuse for showing up a teammate on the field. None, zip, zilch.

I don't care if Carp wants to knee him in the groin when they get to the locker room, but don't embarrass a guy in front of 40,000 people. Makes you like like a major chump.

MikeThierry
07-05-2012, 05:40 PM
There is no excuse for showing up a teammate on the field. None, zip, zilch.

I don't care if Carp wants to knee him in the groin when they get to the locker room, but don't embarrass a guy in front of 40,000 people. Makes you like like a major chump.

Yes there is... when a player is clearly not in the game and deserves to be chewed out. Again, it's just a difference between you and I. I want to win, not treat these players like babies. Carpenter is a winning player that has two rings knows what it takes to be a champion. Ryan continues to see ghosts and act like a kid in Seattle. I'm taking Carps judgement any day of the week.

MikeThierry
07-05-2012, 05:42 PM
That's what HE says happened when he was called out on it. It's sorta like how every guy in prison claims they were framed. Of course he's going to say he didn't do it.

You may want to re-think using the term "chronic mental illness". Not sure that you can equate hating another team's player with bi-polar syndrome or schizophrenia. But to each his own I suppose.

Just like you equate what Carpenter may have done compared to what criminals did in prison? funny...

fearofpopvol1
07-05-2012, 05:42 PM
My favorite Carpenter moment was him claiming that Johnny Cueto's kicking incident would never go over in a street fight. Yea Chris, I'm sure you witnessed lots of street fighting up there in Exeter, NH at your private school. Guy is an LOL a minute.

This was the worst Carpenter ever was. Did anyone see the presser after the game? And of course, don't forget the, "How am I going to explain this to my son" line.

OldXOhio
07-05-2012, 05:53 PM
I don't like Carpenter because overall he has owned the Reds, although I could do without some of his whining. If Pete Rose had berated a young player in the dugout back in the day, folks in Cincinnati would generally defend Pete because "he knew the way the game should be played". I don't see the diff here with Carpenter....it's not like he ran to the media behind everyone's back.

Overall, I couldn't care less about most of this stuff, including how he treats his teammates in the dugout or in the clubhouse. He's just another player on a team that's become my team's chief rival.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 06:07 PM
Just like you equate what Carpenter may have done compared to what criminals did in prison? funny...Yep. They're one and the same.

Carp did it, and thousands of people saw it. When asked about it, he says "No man, this is what really happened. Don't believe all those eye witnesses."

Just like I'm sure in your local county jail you'll hear a guy go "Dude, I don't care what that store owner or anyone who was in it says. I didn't rob it."

The exact. Same. Scenario.


You, on the other hand, have decided that people who don't like Chris Carpenter (on a Reds board, no less) are just as mentally ill as people with schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder.

Is that where we're at?

corkedbat
07-05-2012, 06:10 PM
I can hear him explaining it now, "no son, they said I have a bulging "disk." :evil:

MikeThierry
07-05-2012, 06:17 PM
Yep. They're one and the same.

Carp did it, and thousands of people saw it. When asked about it, he says "No man, this is what really happened. Don't believe all those eye witnesses."

Just like I'm sure in your local county jail you'll hear a guy go "Dude, I don't care what that store owner or anyone who was in it says. I didn't rob it."

The exact. Same. Scenario.


You, on the other hand, have decided that people who don't like Chris Carpenter (on a Reds board, no less) are just as mentally ill as people with schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder.

Is that where we're at?

Yes because we all know that the thousands of people there actually heard WHAT WAS BEING SAID ON THE MOUND...... *rolls eyes

I also never said that the people who don't like Chris Carpenter on this board are chronically mentally ill. Stop putting words into my mouth. You would be a very good political manager the way you spin what someone said.

CySeymour
07-05-2012, 06:22 PM
Wow, this thread has taken an ugly turn.


Come on guys, let's not take this topic to the lowest level.

MikeThierry
07-05-2012, 06:23 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Phillips but I'm not in here saying "wow, did you see what Phillips did. He looked at Matt Holliday wrong. DID YOU SEE THAT!! I can't belive this guy. He's at it again. Always doing stuff to start things."

There is a clear difference between not liking a player and making a mountain out of a mole hill over every single, minute thing that a player does. That was the point I was making about it almost being a chronic mental illness.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 06:29 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Phillips but I'm not in here saying "wow, did you see what Phillips did. He looked at Matt Holliday wrong. DID YOU SEE THAT!! I can't belive this guy. He's at it again. Always doing stuff to start things."

There is a clear difference between not liking a player and making a mountain out of a mole hill over every single, minute thing that a player does. That was the point I was making about it almost being a chronic mental illness.I think sometimes you might be wise to remember you're on a Reds forum, and pick your battles accordingly.

You can defend the man all you want, call us mentally ill all you want, you're not going to get Reds fans to like Chris Carpenter. I'm a member over at BOTB and I can assure you I don't get bent out of shape each and every time they trash Johnny Cueto And trust me, Carp has it easy here compared to what Cueto gets from Cards fans. I've seen posts suggesting he should be beaten, banned from baseball, hit intentionally every time up, etc.

Again, I'm not trying to make you feel unwelcome here, because you've got every right to be here. Just remember where you are.

The Operator
07-05-2012, 06:41 PM
But to address your point on Phillips, I'm sure you don't like him. And the reason Cards fans hate him is over one single isolated incident.

Carpenter pulls stunts all the time to earn his hatred. If it was a one-off thing, you might have a point. But it's not.

Heck, it's not even isolated to The Reds with him. Last season Carlos Lee threw his bat to the ground after popping up against Carpenter, upset at himself for making an out. Carpenter was offended by this, and yelled at Lee from the mound about it. Apparently Lee had no right to be upset, because he never had a chance anyway, or something like that.

cincrazy
07-05-2012, 08:27 PM
Not many like Carp. Mike Napoli is one of them. As mentioned above, Carlos Lee another. He's just an unlikable dude. I don't like Molina, but I respect the hell out of him. I can't say that I respect Carpenter all that much. I respect his ability, but that's about the extent of it.

Tom Servo
07-05-2012, 08:31 PM
Not many like Carp. Mike Napoli is one of them. As mentioned above, Carlos Lee another. He's just an unlikable dude. I don't like Molina, but I respect the hell out of him. I can't say that I respect Carpenter all that much. I respect his ability, but that's about the extent of it.
Zack Grienke is another.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/25/chris-carpenter-seems-to-have-forgotten-one-of-those-unwritten-rules-he-cares-so-much-about/

A+ article

cincrazy
07-05-2012, 08:36 PM
Zack Grienke is another.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/25/chris-carpenter-seems-to-have-forgotten-one-of-those-unwritten-rules-he-cares-so-much-about/

A+ article

Forgot about that. There are so many incidents I can't keep track of them all. There were even rumblings coming out of St. Louis the last few years that they were sick of him.

nate
07-05-2012, 09:38 PM
I love this forum but people here tend to make a mole hill into a mountain with Chris Carpenter. Looking at some of these comments, it's almost a chronic mental illness to be honest with you. Pretty comical in my opinion.

Wow. Lame.

Boss-Hog
07-05-2012, 09:42 PM
I think sometimes you might be wise to remember you're on a Reds forum, and pick your battles accordingly.

Again, I'm not trying to make you feel unwelcome here, because you've got every right to be here. Just remember where you are.
Indeed

Redhook
07-05-2012, 10:00 PM
Chris Carpenter and Hines Ward are my two least favorite athletes. I couldn't be happier that they're both now finished playing. Great players, obviously, but two low-class athletes. Not counting teammates, I bet every other player in the both leagues hates both of them.

gilpdawg
07-05-2012, 10:02 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Phillips but I'm not in here saying "wow, did you see what Phillips did. He looked at Matt Holliday wrong. DID YOU SEE THAT!! I can't belive this guy. He's at it again. Always doing stuff to start things."

There is a clear difference between not liking a player and making a mountain out of a mole hill over every single, minute thing that a player does. That was the point I was making about it almost being a chronic mental illness.

But if he was on the Cards you'd love the guy. Just like we would if we had CC.

reds44
07-05-2012, 10:02 PM
I love this forum but people here tend to make a mole hill into a mountain with Chris Carpenter. Looking at some of these comments, it's almost a chronic mental illness to be honest with you. Pretty comical in my opinion.
Post of the year.

Why do you care so much if Reds fans don't like what Carpenter does? It's sports. People tend to dislike their rivals. This isn't new. Hate Cueto and Phillips all you want, I'd do the same if I was you. Again, it's sports.

Dan
07-05-2012, 10:28 PM
Wow, this thread has taken an ugly turn.


Come on guys, let's not take this topic to the lowest level.

By far and away Chris Carpenter has got to be the most vilified player ever on this board. And probably approaches Jimbo as the most vilified person ever.

PuffyPig
07-05-2012, 11:06 PM
But to address your point on Phillips, I'm sure you don't like him. And the reason Cards fans hate him is over one single isolated incident.

Carpenter pulls stunts all the time to earn his hatred. If it was a one-off thing, you might have a point. But it's not.



The Cards may hate Phillips, but he's pretty popular anywhere else.

Carpenter is hated through basball.

That's the difference.

camisadelgolf
07-05-2012, 11:11 PM
Also, Brandon Phillips' dad could beat up Chris Carpenter's dad.

Tom Servo
07-05-2012, 11:30 PM
Also, Brandon Phillips' dad could beat up Chris Carpenter's dad.
How would Papa Carpenter explain that to his son Chris?

The Operator
07-05-2012, 11:47 PM
The Cards may hate Phillips, but he's pretty popular anywhere else.

Carpenter is hated through basball.

That's the difference.Indeed.

The Operator
07-06-2012, 12:13 AM
Also, Brandon Phillips' dad could beat up Chris Carpenter's dad. How would Papa Carpenter explain that to his son Chris?Best two-person joke EVER.

The Operator
07-06-2012, 01:03 AM
Guys... I owe Mike an apology. I've just came into possession of video evidence of Chris Carpenter fighting back on the mean streets of Exeter, NH.

Warning: Not suitable for women or children. :D

Irrefutable Evidence - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_1CtWyPCkQ&feature=youtu.be)

MikeThierry
07-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Post of the year.

Why do you care so much if Reds fans don't like what Carpenter does? It's sports. People tend to dislike their rivals. This isn't new. Hate Cueto and Phillips all you want, I'd do the same if I was you. Again, it's sports.

I couldn't care less if you hate Carpenter or not nor do I expect you all to love him. I just find it comical in some of the issues you have with him. Look at it from an outsiders perspective. It's borderline nuts some of the things he's criticized for. Him yelling at other players is a legit issue. Saying "how I'm going to explain this to my son" is melodramatic and I've made fun of it here in this forum. However, him wanting more dirt on a mound simply because its unstable ground and getting flak for that is nit picky to the extreme. Criticizing him for something an umpire did (umpire stopping the game because of smoke) is just silly. The comical stuff is when people hold a grudge of somekind against Carpenter simply for doing things pretty much every pitcher in baseball has done. I'm not asking that everyone should stop hating their favorite punchline here. I'm just saying it looks nutty with some of the complaints, thats all.

Always Red
07-06-2012, 02:53 PM
I couldn't care less if you hate Carpenter or not nor do I expect you all to love him. I just find it comical in some of the issues you have with him. Look at it from an outsiders perspective. It's borderline nuts some of the things he's criticized for. Him yelling at other players is a legit issue. Saying "how I'm going to explain this to my son" is melodramatic and I've made fun of it here in this forum. However, him wanting more dirt on a mound simply because its unstable ground and getting flak for that is nit picky to the extreme. Criticizing him for something an umpire did (umpire stopping the game because of smoke) is just silly. The comical stuff is when people hold a grudge of somekind against Carpenter simply for doing things pretty much every pitcher in baseball has done. I'm not asking that everyone should stop hating their favorite punchline here. I'm just saying it looks nutty with some of the complaints, thats all.

To an "outsider" it might look nutty. But aren't we all "insiders" here, Mike, all Reds-lovers in our own whacky ways? Isn't that why we're here, after all? :D

This is a safe place for Reds fans. We get to band together here, and we can make fun of the Cardinals, TLR and Chris Carpenter as much as we like, as long as Boss-Hog lets us.

Mike, you just might have noticed that we spend far more time bashing each other and Dusty Baker here than we do the Cardinals or Mr. Carpenter. I mean really. :eek:

So, a little Cardinals bashing, or Carp bashing, or Cubs bashing ;) is certainly in order around here, every so often, just to get us all back on the same team. Mike, I like reading your opinions, but you're not a Reds fan, and maybe it might be best for you just to skip over those threads that you know are going to irritate you, and stick to the ones in which you are not on the defensive?

PuffyPig
07-06-2012, 02:56 PM
I couldn't care less if you hate Carpenter or not nor do I expect you all to love him. I just find it comical in some of the issues you have with him. Look at it from an outsiders perspective. It's borderline nuts some of the things he's criticized for. Him yelling at other players is a legit issue. Saying "how I'm going to explain this to my son" is melodramatic and I've made fun of it here in this forum. However, him wanting more dirt on a mound simply because its unstable ground and getting flak for that is nit picky to the extreme. Criticizing him for something an umpire did (umpire stopping the game because of smoke) is just silly. The comical stuff is when people hold a grudge of somekind against Carpenter simply for doing things pretty much every pitcher in baseball has done. I'm not asking that everyone should stop hating their favorite punchline here. I'm just saying it looks nutty with some of the complaints, thats all.

I'm amazed you haven't figured this out.

The prevailing view around baseball is that Carpenter is an egotistical piece of crap.

Therefore, even when he does things that have an actual reasonable explanation, people will find fault. That's just the way it is.

When Phillips tapped Molina on the shinpad (something hitters do to catchers all the time), Molina started World War III. Does anyone thing Molina would have done such a thing if Joey Votto had done the same thing? Of course he wouldn't.

If the biggest loser in school brings in a Bugs Bunny lunchbox everyone ridicules him. If the most popular kid does the same, the rest of the school is out shopping for Elmer Fudd that night.

People want to find fault with Carpenter because he is a wretched human being. So they do. And they always will. Same for your ex-manager.

It's a Reds forum for Pete's sake. I think you forget this.

Revering4Blue
07-07-2012, 01:21 PM
If the biggest loser in school brings in a Bugs Bunny lunchbox everyone ridicules him. If the most popular kid does the same, the rest of the school is out shopping for Elmer Fudd that night.

Classic!

:lol:

Vottomatic
07-07-2012, 01:35 PM
I couldn't care less if you hate Carpenter or not nor do I expect you all to love him. I just find it comical in some of the issues you have with him. Look at it from an outsiders perspective. It's borderline nuts some of the things he's criticized for. Him yelling at other players is a legit issue. Saying "how I'm going to explain this to my son" is melodramatic and I've made fun of it here in this forum. However, him wanting more dirt on a mound simply because its unstable ground and getting flak for that is nit picky to the extreme. Criticizing him for something an umpire did (umpire stopping the game because of smoke) is just silly. The comical stuff is when people hold a grudge of somekind against Carpenter simply for doing things pretty much every pitcher in baseball has done. I'm not asking that everyone should stop hating their favorite punchline here. I'm just saying it looks nutty with some of the complaints, thats all.

Carpenter is worse than a woman with OCD. He is always finding something to complain about.

jojo
07-07-2012, 01:43 PM
Carpenter has an unlikeable personality and probably could be fairly called a jerk.

But wretched human being? I kind of think that's the hyperbole that might be typical of what gets a rise out of Mike. He's kind of got a point. If we're going to interpret everything Carpenter does in the worse possible light without any grace, then lets not forget it's our bias that leads to us calling him wretched rather than him being wretched that has led us to interpret everything he does in the worst possible light.