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View Full Version : Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes



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Vottomatic
03-13-2012, 01:10 PM
Spring Training 2012
3/13/12

Alonso - 24 at-bats, 6 hits, 4 singles, 2 doubles, 6 K's, 4 rbi, 1 BB, .250 batting average, .280 OBP
Grandal - 13 at-bats, 2 singles, 1 double, 5 K's, .231 batting average

Volquez - 2 IP, 4.50 e.r.a., 2 hits, 1 ER, 0 BB's, 1 K
Boxberger - 2.1 IP, 30.86 e.r.a., 6 hits, 8 ER's, 2 BB's, 5 K's, .462 batting average against him

Wood, T. - 2.1 IP, 3 hits, 1 ER, 2 BB's, 1 K, 3.86 e.r.a.

Sappelt - 10 at-bats, 2 hits, 3 BB's, 1 K, .200 batting average

Torreyes - 26 at-bats, 12 hits, 5 BB's, 1 K, 5 doubles, 1 triple, 2 HR's, .461 batting average

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
........JUST KIDDING ON TORREYES. He isn't in major league camp and I just made those numbers up to freak some people out. :laugh::lol::p

Maybe we use this thread to follow these players from now through the season. :thumbup:

medford
03-13-2012, 01:32 PM
Torreyes - 26 at-bats, 12 hits, 5 BB's, 1 K, 5 doubles, 1 triple, 2 HR's, .461 batting average

.
.
.
........JUST KIDDING ON TORREYES. He isn't in major league camp and I just made those numbers up to freak some people out. :laugh::lol::p

Maybe we use this thread to follow these players from now through the season. :thumbup:

Thing is, small sample size in tact, it wouldn't be "that surprising" other than the 26 at bat part. Little dude can flat out hit, it will be interesting how he fairs against upper level competition.

Kc61
03-13-2012, 02:45 PM
Let it go.

bellhead
03-13-2012, 02:47 PM
Let it go.

Can't he's a redszone minor league legend. We loved on on that sub board.:)

Spitball
03-13-2012, 06:01 PM
Can't he's a redszone minor league legend. We loved on on that sub board.:)

I'm glad he was traded. His name kinda creeps me out...but so did that song about Bette Davis eyes. :eek:

Spitball
03-13-2012, 06:01 PM
Oops! I double posted.

Caveat Emperor
03-13-2012, 06:20 PM
Tracking what traded prospects did was a lot of fun when this team was a basement dweller. Now it just seems odd.

Captain Hook
03-13-2012, 06:33 PM
I don't see the problem.

My first thought when I saw the thread was that it was a good idea followed by what took so long.I guess maybe I've become a little out of touch with RZ during the offseason.

VottoFan54
03-14-2012, 12:20 AM
I don't see the problem.

My first thought when I saw the thread was that it was a good idea.

I agree, this is a good idea.

Captain Hook
03-14-2012, 01:04 AM
It will be interesting to follow a good group of young prospects and major leaguers that the Reds traded to to help get guys to win now.I actually think that is something new to this forum.

_Sir_Charles_
03-14-2012, 09:20 AM
Well, I for one will be following Ronald's career very closely. He's been my favorite Reds prospect since the days of Redus. I have the sneaking suspicion that trading Torreyes away is going to haunt us.

westofyou
03-14-2012, 09:46 AM
Next lets start tracking all the girls we almost kissed, that should be a jolly time as well.

Team Clark
03-14-2012, 10:37 AM
Next lets start tracking all the girls we almost kissed, that should be a jolly time as well.

This is going to take awhile. I've forgotten a lot of last names. :D

RANDY IN INDY
03-14-2012, 10:45 AM
I guess there's nothing wrong with tracking those guys. Personally, I'll be tracking the current Reds prospects.

dunner13
03-14-2012, 10:54 AM
Someone needs to go back and track stewart and roenike to see how that trade has worked out for the reds. I'm still waiting on Stewart to win those Cy Young Awards.

remdog
03-14-2012, 11:24 AM
This is nothing more than what the poet, Rod Mckuen, called 'mental-masturbation'. The deal is done. Get over it.

Rem

REDREAD
03-14-2012, 12:19 PM
Redzone posters really like to complain about threads they have no interest in.. despite the fact that the activity on this board has plummeted to almost zero..

Why even click on this thread if you don't care how these prospects pan out?

I came to read an update, and about 1/2 the posts are complaining this thread exists... Yes, I am complaining about complaining :) but I really miss the old days of this forum.

westofyou
03-14-2012, 01:16 PM
Redzone posters really like to complain about threads they have no interest in.. despite the fact that the activity on this board has plummeted to almost zero..

Why even click on this thread if you don't care how these prospects pan out?

I came to read an update, and about 1/2 the posts are complaining this thread exists... Yes, I am complaining about complaining :) but I really miss the old days of this forum.I too miss the John Allen days

medford
03-14-2012, 01:59 PM
Redzone posters really like to complain about threads they have no interest in.. despite the fact that the activity on this board has plummeted to almost zero..

Why even click on this thread if you don't care how these prospects pan out?

I came to read an update, and about 1/2 the posts are complaining this thread exists... Yes, I am complaining about complaining :) but I really miss the old days of this forum.

Agreed, I have interest to see how they do going forward, only because I once wondered what they would do for the Reds one day. I think I'm perfectly capable of rooting for the reds while wondering what former Reds/Reds farmhands are doing in their new role. One of the strengths of Redszone was that it was always a great place to not only discuss the Reds, but baseball as a whole, there was no need for a "reds" board and a "all other baseball" board. Last I checked, all the guys the Reds traded are still playing baseball and worthy of discussion as we see fit. It still baffles me how many people click on a perfectly clear topic only to ***** that that topic doesn't deserve discussion. If you don't want to pay attention to the seasons/careers Alonso, torreyes, Volquez, Grandal, etc.. put up its pretty easy to just skip over the topic.

Vottomatic
03-14-2012, 03:58 PM
I don't know why anyone would start this topic. It's stupid. Seriously.

Oops. I started it. :D

wlf WV
03-14-2012, 04:18 PM
I don't like to "get over it",and someone telling me to even less.Jocketty's still here and that makes it relevant.

RANDY IN INDY
03-14-2012, 04:41 PM
I don't know why anyone would start this topic. It's stupid. Seriously.

Oops. I started it. :D

:laugh:

757690
03-14-2012, 04:43 PM
So how are they doing now? Updates would be nice.

Benihana
03-15-2012, 05:02 PM
This will be good for my wager with TRF, who thinks that Wood and Sappelt will outperform Alex Gordon this year...

PuffyPig
03-15-2012, 06:57 PM
This will be good for my wager with TRF, who thinks that Wood and Sappelt will outperform Alex Gordon this year...

Well, I expect Wood to pitch better than Gordon this year.

RedLegsToday
03-17-2012, 08:34 AM
not sure where else to put this, and small sample size alert...

Adam Dunn, 2012 Spring Training: .308/.526/.846 2hr, 6bb, 1k

RedLegsToday
03-17-2012, 08:41 AM
As far as the guys in the thread title:

Alonso, .226/.250/.323 in 32pa
Grandal, .235/.235/.294 in 17pa
Volquez, only 5ip, 5.40 era
Sappelt, .176/.333/.294 in 21 pa
Wood, 2 starts, 2.2 IP, 20.25era!

Tony Cloninger
03-17-2012, 09:58 AM
Redzone posters really like to complain about threads they have no interest in.. despite the fact that the activity on this board has plummeted to almost zero..

Why even click on this thread if you don't care how these prospects pan out?

I came to read an update, and about 1/2 the posts are complaining this thread exists... Yes, I am complaining about complaining :) but I really miss the old days of this forum.

The good old days.....when men where really men?

RedEye
03-17-2012, 01:43 PM
As far as the guys in the thread title:

Alonso, .226/.250/.323 in 32pa
Grandal, .235/.235/.294 in 17pa
Volquez, only 5ip, 5.40 era
Sappelt, .176/.333/.294 in 21 pa
Wood, 2 starts, 2.2 IP, 20.25era!

It's settled. These guys are all terrible. We won the trade(s)!

Vottomatic
03-17-2012, 02:48 PM
It's settled. These guys are all terrible. We won the trade(s)!

Yeah, I feel better since these guys are all struggling and going to be complete busts. ;)

mth123
03-17-2012, 07:09 PM
I don't get why people are so outraged that some want to track these guys. I personally wouldn't take back either trade (IMO, David Sappelt will be the guy missed the most), but I'm still interested in following these guys and seeing how they perform.

The Reds went a ton of years without producing much from the farm. It was the root cause of the lost decade (and a half) not the Griffey trade and contract, not the Eric Milton signing, not the change of the facial hair policy or anything to do with Marty Brennaman's style. I want these guys to all do well. Having Red's farm products producing throughout the major leagues is a good thing for this franchise IMO. I hope Adam Dunn, EdE (not really a Red's product) and Zach Stewart all have good years too.

RedlegJake
03-17-2012, 10:09 PM
I don't mind tracking these guys because if they do well all it says to other GMs is the Reds produce quality players from their farm and its a good idea to trade for their minor leaguers. Its a win-win. If they, on the other hand, don't do well, it could actually hurt us in the long run even if we "win" the actual trades by depressing the market value of Reds farm hands. Given that, I hope they all have great years except when they play the Reds.

Kc61
03-17-2012, 11:53 PM
This thread could belong in the Minor League Forum. We'll see how many of these guys make the Padres and Cubs.

Captain Hook
03-18-2012, 12:20 AM
This thread could belong in the Minor League Forum. We'll see how many of these guys make the Padres and Cubs.

Volquez will be a starter for SD along with Alonso starting there everyday at 1B.Wood is struggling but still probably has a spot in the Cubs rotation that's his to loose, although he's doing his best to do just that.

I think maybe you should take some of your own advise(see post #3 in this thread).

If you're not a fan of this thread stop clicking on it.I keep coming here to see some updates but keep finding people complaining about the thread.

Captain Hook
03-18-2012, 12:35 AM
As far as the guys in the thread title:

Alonso, .226/.250/.323 in 32pa
Grandal, .235/.235/.294 in 17pa
Volquez, only 5ip, 5.40 era
Sappelt, .176/.333/.294 in 21 pa
Wood, 2 starts, 2.2 IP, 20.25era!

Thanks.

Could you imagine the outrage, if we knew trades involving these guys could've been made for quality, established major leaguers only to have the Reds back out and then these guys were putting up those numbers so far in ST?I wonder if we'd be tracking the guys we could've got in those trades but didn't.

Those numbers mean very little to me and most others right now but lets not pretend that there hasn't been guys cut already this year because they've put up bad numbers.

On a side note Alonso was 2-3 tonight with 3 rbi last time I checked(game wasn't over).

Kc61
03-18-2012, 11:29 AM
Volquez will be a starter for SD along with Alonso starting there everyday at 1B.Wood is struggling but still probably has a spot in the Cubs rotation that's his to loose, although he's doing his best to do just that.

I think maybe you should take some of your own advise(see post #3 in this thread).

If you're not a fan of this thread stop clicking on it.I keep coming here to see some updates but keep finding people complaining about the thread.

Since there's going to be a thread on these guys, I'd like to know how many are likely to make the major leagues.

As far as I can see, V and Alonso will. Travis Wood and Sappelt seem to be on the bubble. Boxberger, Grandal, Torreyes probably go to the minors.

If anyone follows the Cubs and Padres more carefully, they should post some information. Thanks.

Ron Madden
03-18-2012, 03:42 PM
Why not let those interested in this thread participate in it and those who don't like this thread just ignore it..

_Sir_Charles_
03-18-2012, 06:04 PM
Why not let those interested in this thread participate in it and those who don't like this thread just ignore it..

While that concept would seem to make sense on the surface, once you dig a bit deeper into Redszone you'd come to realize that rational thought and common sense are in short supply. ;)

AmarilloRed
03-18-2012, 09:27 PM
Wood is listed as fourth on the Cubs rotation depth. I think he'd have to be fairly terrible in spring to not make their rotation. He might be on the bubble if he was still on the Reds, not in Chicago.

_Sir_Charles_
03-19-2012, 01:05 PM
Wood is listed as fourth on the Cubs rotation depth. I think he'd have to be fairly terrible in spring to not make their rotation. He might be on the bubble if he was still on the Reds, not in Chicago.

I actually just read a piece on the Cubs and it didn't even mention Wood. It listed the 5 starters and some other players. I think it was the baseball tonight bus tour article on ESPN. So take that for what it's worth.

http://espn.go.com/blog/spring-training/post/_/id/171/bbtn-bus-tour-cubs-camp


It’s early, but here’s the best guess on what the Cubs' rotation will look like on Opening Day: Ryan Dempster, Matt Garza, Paul Maholm, Jeff Samardzija and Chris Volstad. Volstad’s first two starts have been very good, and he observed that, “I’m attacking. That’s what Bosi [pitching coach Chris Bosio] preaches.”

Plus Plus
03-19-2012, 02:30 PM
I actually just read a piece on the Cubs and it didn't even mention Wood. It listed the 5 starters and some other players. I think it was the baseball tonight bus tour article on ESPN. So take that for what it's worth.

http://espn.go.com/blog/spring-training/post/_/id/171/bbtn-bus-tour-cubs-camp

That is pretty much in line what the sports talk radio people from Chicago have been saying when discussing the Cubs' starting pitching. Wood is little more than an afterthought in most discussions.

_Sir_Charles_
03-19-2012, 05:42 PM
Btw....Travis Wood started today, 2 ip, 7 hits, 7 runs, 2 k, 2 bb, 3 bombs. Yikes. 25.05 spring earnie. *shudders*

Kc61
03-19-2012, 05:45 PM
Wood is listed as fourth on the Cubs rotation depth. I think he'd have to be fairly terrible in spring to not make their rotation. He might be on the bubble if he was still on the Reds, not in Chicago.

Sounds like Wood should be hoping for the bubble. With the Cubs.

Seriously, wonder what's up with Wood, he's really had a miserable spring. Probably will go to AAA and work things out down there.

Captain Hook
03-19-2012, 06:16 PM
Sounds like Wood should be hoping for the bubble. With the Cubs.

Seriously, wonder what's up with Wood, he's really had a miserable spring. Probably will go to AAA and work things out down there.

Seems like since being demoted last June Travis has really struggled.He wasn't doing great before that but at AAA he did even worse.Could be that his confidence took a big hit and since being sent down he's had a difficult time getting in a grove.That or he just isn't that good.

dougdirt
03-19-2012, 06:32 PM
Seems like since being demoted last June Travis has really struggled.He wasn't doing great before that but at AAA he did even worse.Could be that his confidence took a big hit and since being sent down he's had a difficult time getting in a grove.That or he just isn't that good.

While I haven't watched him pitch much lately, when he first came up, he was able to locate his fastball/cutter very well. In 2010, his fastball and cutter both were "above average" pitches according to fangraphs data. In 2011, both took enormous steps backward in effectiveness according the same data.

Here it is, per 100 pitches:
Fastball 10/11: 1.63/-0.07
Cutter 10/11: 0.53/-1.56

Now, why that happened, I can't say at this point (I haven't done any Pitch F/X scouting on him from that time nor watched any video to see if my "control" of those two pitches theory could be behind it).

Vottomatic
03-20-2012, 03:45 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/pos...um=twitter


In less than three weeks, Wood has gone from starting rotation candidate to a spot at Triple-A Iowa, and that decision was probably made even before he took the mound Monday. Wood still has a minor-league option remaining, but even if he didn’t it probably wouldn’t be an issue at this point to get him through waivers.

“It’s still not that full package to be able to get through big-league hitters using the changeup, throwing it for strikes and the breaking ball,” manager Dale Sveum said. “I still don’t think the cutter is where it needs to be and where I’ve seen it before. I thought the life was there on some pitches but it was just another unfortunate outing.”

Among those issues, Wood has also been having trouble with his command on the first-base side of home plate.

edabbs44
03-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Here's a question. If anyone could, would they undo either the Latos or Marshall deals?

Cedric
03-20-2012, 08:12 PM
Here's a question. If anyone could, would they undo either the Latos or Marshall deals?

The Latos deal on paper is the best trade I can remember a Reds GM making.

Marshall deal was a no brainer for myself also. I think Travis Wood has lost all confidence in his ability to get major league hitters out. I have serious doubt if we ever see him pitch above replacement level.

dougdirt
03-20-2012, 08:27 PM
Here's a question. If anyone could, would they undo either the Latos or Marshall deals?

I would undo the Marshall deal. I would do the Latos deal a million times a day if I could.

westofyou
03-20-2012, 09:02 PM
Here's a question. If anyone could, would they undo either the Latos or Marshall deals?

Steak for burgers and fries

Every day I make that trade with the roster the Reds had in the late fall

hebroncougar
03-20-2012, 09:06 PM
I would undo the Marshall deal. I would do the Latos deal a million times a day if I could.

Really? Because of one of the players they traded, or the combination? I think with the extension, the Reds did pretty darn well.

dougdirt
03-20-2012, 09:37 PM
Really? Because of one of the players they traded, or the combination? I think with the extension, the Reds did pretty darn well.

Because of the combo. I just think it was entirely too much to give up considering what the going price was for Sergio Santos. Sure, Santos isn't quite as good, but he is still a well above average reliever and he was under control for 4 times as long. He cost much less than Marshall did.

hebroncougar
03-20-2012, 10:22 PM
Really? Because of one of the players they traded, or the combination? I think with the extension, the Reds did pretty darn well.

Because of the combo. I just think it was entirely too much to give up considering what the going price was for Sergio Santos. Sure, Santos isn't quite as good, but he is still a well above average reliever and he was under control for 4 times as long. He cost much less than Marshall did.

I can see that. I guess, because Marshall is LH, and you know Dusty and Walt love them some vets.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

membengal
03-21-2012, 06:48 AM
Travis Woods' struggles this spring are making me feel better about that deal.

The player I really hated to see go was Torreyes, but that was in part because he had become a real favorite of mine.

edabbs44
03-21-2012, 06:59 AM
Because of the combo. I just think it was entirely too much to give up considering what the going price was for Sergio Santos. Sure, Santos isn't quite as good, but he is still a well above average reliever and he was under control for 4 times as long. He cost much less than Marshall did.

He also carries a lot more risk.

dougdirt
03-21-2012, 08:04 AM
He also carries a lot more risk.

I don't know if I can agree with that. Marshall has more of a track record, but the current Marshall we know has only been around for two years as the dominant reliever. Santos has two years under his belt with a 3.29 ERA in the American League.

medford
03-21-2012, 08:30 AM
I didn't care for the Marshall deal at the time, mainly b/c of the 1 year left on his contract. Now that he's been extended, and perhaps they had a good idea a deal could get done, similar to Scott Rolen, I'd do the deal every day. I hate lossing Torreyes, dude has put up awesome stats every step of the way, but seeing him in person, he's just so beyond tiney, you question if he'll make it at the upper stages of the minors and in the majors. I enjoyed watching him defy scouting standards, and am interested to see how he progresses in the cubs organization.

medford
03-21-2012, 08:30 AM
I didn't care for the Marshall deal at the time, mainly b/c of the 1 year left on his contract. Now that he's been extended, and perhaps they had a good idea a deal could get done, similar to Scott Rolen, I'd do the deal every day. I hate lossing Torreyes, dude has put up awesome stats every step of the way, but seeing him in person, he's just so beyond tiney, you question if he'll make it at the upper stages of the minors and in the majors. I enjoyed watching him defy scouting standards, and am interested to see how he progresses in the cubs organization.

mbgrayson
03-21-2012, 02:27 PM
Interesting article on the Alonso and Grandal's common Cuba ties on ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7666674/mlb-yonder-alonso-yasmani-grandal-san-diego-padres-connection-traces-back-cuba).



But in Miami, those concerns have vanished. The conversations have been transformed, and tend to focus on the up-and-coming careers of the sons in each family, Yonder Alonso (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/30016/yonder-alonso) and Yasmani Grandal (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/30950/yasmani-grandal) of the San Diego Padres (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/sd/san-diego-padres).


Thousands of miles away, the two sons, whose fates seem intertwined, are in Arizona with dreams of spending the next decade on a major league field together. It's the embodiment of the Cuban-American dream, and their success was only possible because of the sacrifices made by two sets of families that occasionally, and coincidentally, meet.

Kc61
03-21-2012, 02:36 PM
I would make both trades every day of the week and twice on Sunday, with one exception.

Giving up Grandal is a real risk by the Reds. Switch hitting catchers at Grandal's talent level are a valuable commodity. Maybe Mesoraco will make us all forget Grandal, we'll see, but it's not a given.

lollipopcurve
03-21-2012, 02:47 PM
I just think it was entirely too much to give up considering what the going price was for Sergio Santos. Sure, Santos isn't quite as good, but he is still a well above average reliever and he was under control for 4 times as long. He cost much less than Marshall did.

They thought they could extend Marshall. That is known now. It was part of the equation at the time the trade was made, which seems to be the context in which you insist trades be evaluated.

Further, there is little correlation in the trade market between what one GM is willing to give up for one reliever and what another GM is willing to give up for another reliever. Sellers and buyers do not all have the same type or degree of motivation.

Finally, and this remains essential IMO, the value of the players the Reds gave up is based in their evaluations of those players. If they felt the players had limited ceilings, then the trade may have been a simple one for them to agree to. And if those evaluations turn out to be accurate, they'll feel even better about it.

In the end, I score a trade based on what happens afterwards. So far, this one is a big win for the Reds. Could change, but I'm feeling real good about it, even though at the time I was quite sorry to see Sappelt and Torreyes go. Really liked them.

Sea Ray
03-22-2012, 10:47 AM
Wood will be fascinating to watch. He could go either way from here. He could go the way of Lance Davis or Jamie Moyer. One thing's for sure, crafty LHPs will get plenty of chances. He may very well bounce around awhile before he's done. I'm sure the Cubs are wondering where that pitcher is who no hit them for 6 innings on Aug 8, 2010.

REDREAD
03-22-2012, 01:16 PM
Hoenstly, I thought the only player the Reds MIGHT miss in the Marshal trade is Wood. Doesn't look like it will be the case.

I know there's some big Sappelt fans here, but I think his upside is a backup OF.

In hindsight, it looks like the Reds were able to talk the Cubs into accepting quanity for quality. Those type of trades usually work out very well for the contending team getting quality. Sometimes they work out for the team getting quanity, but not as often.

There's a good chance that in two years, in hindsight, this trade may end up being an absolute steal for the Reds. I think there's a greater than 50% chance that the Cubs end up with almost zero value out of this deal.

Sea Ray
03-22-2012, 04:30 PM
Hoenstly, I thought the only player the Reds MIGHT miss in the Marshal trade is Wood. Doesn't look like it will be the case.

I know there's some big Sappelt fans here, but I think his upside is a backup OF.

In hindsight, it looks like the Reds were able to talk the Cubs into accepting quanity for quality. Those type of trades usually work out very well for the contending team getting quality. Sometimes they work out for the team getting quanity, but not as often.

There's a good chance that in two years, in hindsight, this trade may end up being an absolute steal for the Reds. I think there's a greater than 50% chance that the Cubs end up with almost zero value out of this deal.

For me it was Boxberger. Our closer situation is anything but settled going forward after this yr

Vottomatic
03-22-2012, 04:59 PM
Ronald Torreyes had four hits and Ryan Cuneo drove-in five runs with a three-run home run and a two-run single, leading the Daytona Cubs to a 10-3 victory over the San Jose Giants.
Only four hits for Torreyes yesterday. - from TexasDave off of Sundeck

_Sir_Charles_
03-22-2012, 06:51 PM
I can already foresee that I need to stay out of this thread if it's gonna update Torreyes. Because it'll just piss me off. I don't care one lick what the scouts say in regards to his height/size...that kids' gonna hit. Period.

RedLegsToday
03-23-2012, 07:30 AM
Adam Dunn, spring 2012, .333/.515/.876, 4hr, 9bb, 1K! in 33pa.

disclaimer: I don't want to have this turn into an Adam Dunn is great/sucks thing. I'm just find myself fascinated by this player and if he can get back to the human homerun metronome that he was before 2011. And yes, it's a way small sample size, but, Dunn couldn't even hit a straight fastball over the plate last year.

edabbs44
03-23-2012, 07:52 AM
Adam Dunn, spring 2012, .333/.515/.876, 4hr, 9bb, 1K! in 33pa.

disclaimer: I don't want to have this turn into an Adam Dunn is great/sucks thing. I'm just find myself fascinated by this player and if he can get back to the human homerun metronome that he was before 2011. And yes, it's a way small sample size, but, Dunn couldn't even hit a straight fastball over the plate last year.

Why is this post in this thread?

_Sir_Charles_
03-23-2012, 08:27 AM
Why is this post in this thread?

Just a guess, but not worthy of it's own thread and this one is tracking players who used to be in the system as did Adam.

RedLegsToday
03-23-2012, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by edabbs44
Why is this post in this thread?

Just a guess, but not worthy of it's own thread and this one is tracking players who used to be in the system as did Adam.


Yes, that's why I posted it here. It seemed like the best spot.

WebScorpion
03-24-2012, 12:20 AM
In a game against the Reds today Volquez went 5.2 innings, 2 hits, 2 ER, 2 BB, 6 Ks.

Alonso was 2 for 3 scoring 2 runs.

The Mighty Chris Denorfia made an appearance in the game too. :eek:

*EDIT*: Oh, and Boxberger closed it out with a 1-2-3 ninth striking out 2. :dunno:

Vottomatic
03-25-2012, 11:38 AM
In a game against the Reds today Volquez went 5.2 innings, 2 hits, 2 ER, 2 BB, 6 Ks.

Alonso was 2 for 3 scoring 2 runs.

The Mighty Chris Denorfia made an appearance in the game too. :eek:

*EDIT*: Oh, and Boxberger closed it out with a 1-2-3 ninth striking out 2. :dunno:

Geez. Our former players just own us. :D

edabbs44
03-25-2012, 12:02 PM
Just a guess, but not worthy of it's own thread and this one is tracking players who used to be in the system as did Adam.

I think it is more about tracking the guys who were traded this offseason.

Vottomatic
03-25-2012, 05:03 PM
If Adam Dunn keeps it up, we might want to get him back. :laugh: ;):p

cinreds21
03-29-2012, 11:29 AM
Sappelt and Wood were sent down by Chicago today.

Captain Hook
03-29-2012, 05:26 PM
Sappelt and Wood were sent down by Chicago today.

Who would've thought the Reds could trade three fairly popular players for a middle reliever with a expiring contract and have it work out so well?

dougdirt
03-29-2012, 05:40 PM
Who would've thought the Reds could trade three fairly popular players for a middle reliever with a expiring contract and have it work out so well?

That means it worked out well?

cincrazy
03-29-2012, 06:09 PM
That means it worked out well?

Clearly we don't yet know how it will work out. But I will say this: if this Reds bullpen didn't have Sean Marshall at the moment, it'd be in a lot of trouble, considering the injuries to Madson, Masset and Bray, and with Chapman possibly taking a rotation spot.

dougdirt
03-29-2012, 06:12 PM
Clearly we don't yet know how it will work out. But I will say this: if this Reds bullpen didn't have Sean Marshall at the moment, it'd be in a lot of trouble, considering the injuries to Madson, Masset and Bray, and with Chapman possibly taking a rotation spot.

Sure.... but that has no bearing on the trade.

edabbs44
03-29-2012, 07:07 PM
Sure.... but that has no bearing on the trade.

What interests me is that two main pieces whose inclusion upset some posters couldn't make the Cubs out of ST.

dougdirt
03-29-2012, 07:20 PM
What interests me is that two main pieces whose inclusion upset some posters couldn't make the Cubs out of ST.

If there weren't injuries, Aroldis Chapman probably wasn't making the Reds out of spring training either.... it doesn't say much about him though.

The Cubs outfield is set at Soriano, Byrd and DeJesus. Soriano was an absolute lock barring an injury. I do find it funny that his AVG is 22 points higher than his OBP this spring though. Byrd is making $6.5M this year and was an All Star in 2010 and wasn't terrible by any means in 2011. DeJesus is struggling this spring, and wasn't that good for Oakland last year, but he has been a pretty good player over his career. He is making $4.25M this year as well.

Money comes into play here with Sappelt. He didn't hit much this spring, but, it is still just spring. He out hit DeJesus while having as many walks as strikeouts. The back up is Reed Johnson, who Sappelt also out hit this spring. Can't figure out how Reed Johnson gets the spot over Sappelt unless they just want Sappelt playing every day. Johnson has 10 walks and 110 strikeouts over the last two seasons.

Wood.... he did himself in. Didn't have a good spring at all after struggling in 2011.

edabbs44
03-29-2012, 07:30 PM
It doesn't sound as if Sappelt was the victim of a numbers game, just by reading some recent articles. Plus it seems as if he will not be the first OFer called up either.

dougdirt
03-29-2012, 07:37 PM
It doesn't sound as if Sappelt was the victim of a numbers game, just by reading some recent articles. Plus it seems as if he will not be the first OFer called up either.

I expect that to change when he is hitting .315 when they need to call an outfielder up.

Vottomatic
03-29-2012, 07:49 PM
Sappelt kind of grew on me, but then he did little to nothing when he got the call up. He doesn't have any basestealing speed, and he's not going to hit a lot of homers. He's an even slower Fred Lewis who might hit .300 with not much slugging.

The Reds won't miss him. But I wish him well.

Wood is going backward.......regressing. It's sad to see.

Captain Hook
03-29-2012, 08:07 PM
That means it worked out well?

At the time it didn't appear that the Reds traded 3 minor leaguers(fact is they could make the big league club on a franchise not likely to be all that competitive this year)for a guy that will likely close out ballgames for the next three years.Certainly things could change but yes, right now it's working out well for the Reds.

Captain Hook
03-30-2012, 04:15 AM
n/m

AmarilloRed
03-30-2012, 09:32 PM
Sean Marshall had refused a long term deal with the Cubs-there was a good chance they were going to lose him for nothing at the end this year. At the time, the Cubs were really weak with their starting rotation depth. I can see why the Cubs made the trade at the time, even if it may not work out for them.

kaldaniels
03-30-2012, 09:57 PM
If there weren't injuries, Aroldis Chapman probably wasn't making the Reds out of spring training either.... it doesn't say much about him though.

The Cubs outfield is set at Soriano, Byrd and DeJesus. Soriano was an absolute lock barring an injury. I do find it funny that his AVG is 22 points higher than his OBP this spring though. Byrd is making $6.5M this year and was an All Star in 2010 and wasn't terrible by any means in 2011. DeJesus is struggling this spring, and wasn't that good for Oakland last year, but he has been a pretty good player over his career. He is making $4.25M this year as well.

Money comes into play here with Sappelt. He didn't hit much this spring, but, it is still just spring. He out hit DeJesus while having as many walks as strikeouts. The back up is Reed Johnson, who Sappelt also out hit this spring. Can't figure out how Reed Johnson gets the spot over Sappelt unless they just want Sappelt playing every day. Johnson has 10 walks and 110 strikeouts over the last two seasons.

Wood.... he did himself in. Didn't have a good spring at all after struggling in 2011.

Lets talk about Wood. Scouting-wise, what is up with him? The sniff test says he has stunk up the joint since ~ a year ago. With the Reds, with the Bats, and now in the spring. I don't discount stats such as FIP one bit, but I'm not interested in that stuff right now. I'm talking mechanically, physically, etc......what is going on?

dougdirt
03-30-2012, 10:05 PM
Lets talk about Wood. Scouting-wise, what is up with him? The sniff test says he has stunk up the joint since ~ a year ago. With the Reds, with the Bats, and now in the spring. I don't discount stats such as FIP one bit, but I'm not interested in that stuff right now. I'm talking mechanically, physically, etc......what is going on?

While I haven't gone through and looked at the amount of video needed to make this as a strong claim, I think it is simple: He used to have a good ability to control his fastball and cutter and now he doesn't. In 2010, both his fastball and cut fastball were above average in terms of effectiveness. In 2011, his fastball was basically just average (but that was a long fall from where it was), while his cutter went from solid to very poor in terms of effectiveness. His manager with the Cubs noted last week at some point that he wasn't able to locate the pitches either, so there is probably some truth to it. Why he can't do it now and could in 2009/2010, I can't say.

bellhead
03-31-2012, 04:19 PM
the only one I will really miss is the little guy. What he would have down in Bakersfield this year:)

Blitz Dorsey
03-31-2012, 06:55 PM
The Marshall Trade will go down as one of the best the Reds have ever made. Get a top-shelf reliever for 3 fringe MLB players (at best). Then re-sign said reliever at an extremely-reasonable rate for 3 additional seasons. Then said reliever might become closer due to Madson injury. Reds would be in terrible shape without Marshall this season and they gave up very little in the grand scheme to get him. Felt like it was a lot to us, but it really wasn't. And even beyond this season the trade looks great because Marshall will be a HUGE part of the bullpen at least through the 2015 season. Either as the set-up man or the closer. What a great trade.

Vottomatic
03-31-2012, 07:06 PM
3-31-12 update:

Sappelt - 37 at-bats, 8 hits, 2 doubles, 1 triple, 1 homer, .216 average, .293 OBP
Wood - 4 games, 8 IP, 17.28 e.r.a., 18 hits, 16 er's, 3 hr's, 6 walks, 5 K's, .429 hitting against him

Boxberger - 8 games, 8 IP, 8 hits, 8 earned runs, 3 walks, 11 K's, 10.80 e.r.a., .286 hitting against him, 0 HR's allowed
Volquez - 3.48 e.r.a., 5 games, 20 IP, 12 hits, 11 walks, 13 K's, .179 hitting against him

Grandal - .353, 34 at-bats, 12 hits, 3 doubles, 2 HR, 1.054 OPS
Alonso - .299, 67 at-bats, 20 hits, 5 doubles, 1 Tr, 1 HR, .776 OPS

dougdirt
03-31-2012, 07:12 PM
The Marshall Trade will go down as one of the best the Reds have ever made. Get a top-shelf reliever for 3 fringe MLB players (at best). Then re-sign said reliever at an extremely-reasonable rate for 3 additional seasons. Then said reliever might become closer due to Madson injury. Reds would be in terrible shape without Marshall this season and they gave up very little in the grand scheme to get him. Felt like it was a lot to us, but it really wasn't. And even beyond this season the trade looks great because Marshall will be a HUGE part of the bullpen at least through the 2015 season. Either as the set-up man or the closer. What a great trade.

Maybe it is just my take on relievers having very limited value, but even if Marshall goes out over his Reds contract and gives us a flat 3.00 ERA and 200 innings (which I think is well within reason), I can't say its one of the best trades they have ever made. They got Brandon Phillips for Jeff Stevens. They got Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena. Both of those trades worked out much better than what the Marshall trade is likely to work out as.

LegallyMinded
04-01-2012, 03:08 PM
Volquez has been named (http://www.nctimes.com/blogsnew/sports/padres/padres-volquez-to-start-on-opening-day/article_38f55330-4de8-5b0e-a265-0c6bcf728ab6.html) the opening day starter for the Padres.

I'm sure when the Volquez-Latos deal went down, we all expected it would be the former starting on opening day while the latter gets to sit back and relax, right?

In all seriousness, I guess Volquez has looked decent this spring, aside from his ever-present control issues. I still can't imagine why the Padres wouldn't start with Cory Luebke, Dustin Moseley or Clayton Richard instead, though.

Spitball
04-01-2012, 04:22 PM
In all seriousness, I guess Volquez has looked decent this spring, aside from his ever-present control issues. I still can't imagine why the Padres wouldn't start with Cory Luebke, Dustin Moseley or Clayton Richard instead, though.

Besides believeing Volquez is better than Cory Luebke, Dustin Moseley or Clayton Richard, the Padres are working to restore his confidence.

I have a feeling the Volquez will make a comeback this year.

Vottomatic
04-01-2012, 04:45 PM
Volquez is my pick to have a comeback season too.

But had he not been traded, I wouldn't have predicted that. Him having to pitch for a team like the Reds that were down on him probably wouldn't have been easy. A change of scenery will do him good with a new start. Atleast that's my prediction.

dougdirt
04-01-2012, 04:58 PM
Volquez is my pick to have a comeback season too.

But had he not been traded, I wouldn't have predicted that. Him having to pitch for a team like the Reds that were down on him probably wouldn't have been easy. A change of scenery will do him good with a new start. Atleast that's my prediction.

I would pick him simply because he is going to be pitching in San Diego. His ERA is almost a lock to drop.

dfs
04-01-2012, 05:21 PM
I would pick him simply because he is going to be pitching in San Diego. His ERA is almost a lock to drop.

Well, guys with a 5.71 era don't tend to get very many starts. He's either going to improve or "get an injury."

edabbs44
04-01-2012, 06:19 PM
I would pick him simply because he is going to be pitching in San Diego. His ERA is almost a lock to drop.

That ERA could easily be 5.50 or even 5.25!!!

Just kidding.

Reds1
04-01-2012, 07:33 PM
3-31-12 update:

Sappelt - 37 at-bats, 8 hits, 2 doubles, 1 triple, 1 homer, .216 average, .293 OBP
Wood - 4 games, 8 IP, 17.28 e.r.a., 18 hits, 16 er's, 3 hr's, 6 walks, 5 K's, .429 hitting against him

Boxberger - 8 games, 8 IP, 8 hits, 8 earned runs, 3 walks, 11 K's, 10.80 e.r.a., .286 hitting against him, 0 HR's allowed
Volquez - 3.48 e.r.a., 5 games, 20 IP, 12 hits, 11 walks, 13 K's, .179 hitting against him

Grandal - .353, 34 at-bats, 12 hits, 3 doubles, 2 HR, 1.054 OPS
Alonso - .299, 67 at-bats, 20 hits, 5 doubles, 1 Tr, 1 HR, .776 OPS


I don't know why, but I always thought Sappelt would be a stud hitter, but so far not looking that way. This is pretty much as expected except wood little worse and Grandal a little better. Alonso is the stud in this bunch. 67 bats not a bad sample size and right at .300. Latos until today has looked nice. I hope Latos was just working on things since his injury tweak and he will be great rest of the time.

dougdirt
04-01-2012, 10:08 PM
I don't know why, but I always thought Sappelt would be a stud hitter, but so far not looking that way. This is pretty much as expected except wood little worse and Grandal a little better. Alonso is the stud in this bunch. 67 bats not a bad sample size and right at .300. Latos until today has looked nice. I hope Latos was just working on things since his injury tweak and he will be great rest of the time.

Sappelt and Alonso don't have anywhere near enough at bats to had anything resembling a decent sample size to draw anything from.

Latos gave up two wind aided home runs today. He will be just fine.

Vottomatic
04-11-2012, 06:58 PM
Through 5 games:

Alonso - 17 at-bats, 3 hits, .176 average, 3 walks, 3 K's, no extra-base hits.

Volquez - 2 starts, 12 IP, 7 walks, 15 K's, 8 hits, 4 earned runs, 3.00 e.r.a.

and a new addition to the updates.......JUAN FRANCISCO!!!

Francisco - 9 at-bats, 1 hit, 1 K, 0 Walks, 3 errors.....LOL

REDREAD
04-12-2012, 09:25 AM
Volquez is my pick to have a comeback season too.
.

The SD ballpark probalby helps just about every pitcher, but I think Volquez's inablity to have consistent control will hurt him.
Maybe SD can manipulate the rotation to maximize his home starts as the did with Harang.

klw
04-12-2012, 10:56 AM
For those wanting to track the guys in the minors, here are some links

Dave Sappelt- off to a slow start in AAA
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=543743

Ron Torreyes- from Dayton to Daytona
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=591720

Travis Wood- 1 start so far
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=475243

Yamani Grandal- only hitting .500- clearly a bust (12AB's) ;)
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=518735

Brad Boxberger
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=502202

dougdirt
04-12-2012, 04:12 PM
Torreyes has 5 strikeouts in 20 at bats this year. He had 19 in 349 last year. BUST! (Kidding for those who didn't pick up on the sarcasm)

klw
04-23-2012, 12:28 PM
Updates.
Torreyes and Sappelt have started hitting better the past ten games and have both raised their averages into the mid .200's.
Wood has been meh in his three starts.
Grandal is still out with a hamstring injury.

Juan Francisco hit HR #3 yesterday.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=464433#gameType='R'&sectionType=career&statType=1&season=2012&level='ALL'

lollipopcurve
04-23-2012, 02:16 PM
Torreyes' OPS is at .890 over the last 10 games. FSL is a pitcher's league, too.

Still sorry we lost him.

Always Red
04-24-2012, 08:28 AM
I wonder if Redszone1966 had a thread following Frank Robinson's stats.

If so, that must have been especially painful.

I sure hope Matt Latos doesn't turn into Milt Pappas. :eek:

klw
04-24-2012, 08:41 AM
Here we can track Milt Pappas as well.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pappami01.shtml
Milt certainly wasn't as good after the trade as he was before but he was a solid innings eater. His trade tot he Cubs also brought in Clay Carroll, Woody Woodward, and Tony Cloniger. Not saying it was a good trade but Milt wasn't terrible (25.4 WAR for rest of career). He just wasn't Robinson.(45.9 WAR rest of career).

Always Red
04-24-2012, 08:55 AM
Here we can track Milt Pappas as well.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pappami01.shtml
Milt certainly wasn't as good after the trade as he was before but he was a solid innings eater. His trade tot he Cubs also brought in Clay Carroll, Woody Woodward, and Tony Cloniger. Not saying it was a good trade but Milt wasn't terrible. He just wasn't Robinson.

True, Pappas was a good pitcher before the trade, and had a very nice career, winning over 200 games. His 1967 Reds season was much better than 1966- maybe he felt the pressure of being traded for FRobby? After a poor start with the Reds in 1968, he was traded to the Atlanta Braves for the haul you mentioned above. He actually pitched very well for the Cubs in the early 70's.

But perception becomes reality over time, and the Robby/Pappas-Baldshun-Simpson trade is considered to be one of the worst in Reds history.

My previous post was tongue-in-cheek, and I only root for the best for Latos, and can't wait for his usual poor April to be over for him.

Interesting, Pappas is ranked #101 all time pitcher on BR.com. Not too shabby. As you said though, he wasn't Frank Robinson.

HotCorner
04-24-2012, 08:58 AM
Should we track Jeff Stevens too? ;)

CySeymour
04-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Hey, how about Frank Duffy and Vern Geishert? :D

Tom Servo
04-24-2012, 12:54 PM
Anybody keeping track of Wily Mo?

klw
04-24-2012, 12:59 PM
Anybody keeping track of Wily Mo?

This is what I could find- he is 9th in the Pacific League in BA. Best that I can tell he is Tied with Wladimir Balentien and two others for the HR lead and is second in the league with 21 k's. He is walking at a good clip too.
http://www.japanball.com/stats.phtml


9 Pena, WilyModesto (Hawks) 0.321 4 16 0.4 (OBP)

Here is his Nippon League player page.
http://bis.npb.or.jp/eng/players/93195135.html




Year Team G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR TB RBI SB CS SH SF BB HP SO GDP AVG
2012 Sof 20 74 62 13 20 4 2 4 40 17 1 0 0 1 10 1 21 1 .323

Tom Servo
04-24-2012, 01:28 PM
Speaking of former Reds, as infuriating as his D could be at times, I find it hard to believe that Felipe Lopez can't get a job in any of the 30 teams organizations. Granted his 2010 and 2011 seasons were pretty bad, but there are certainly significantly worse players still employed. He strikes me as the type who played best when you put him in the lineup and left him alone.

medford
04-24-2012, 01:34 PM
I get the feeling FeLo is the type of player you don't want to put up with. Sure he's better than some current major leaguer, but he may give you more headaches than those other major leaguers.

PuffyPig
04-24-2012, 01:36 PM
But perception becomes reality over time, and the Robby/Pappas-Baldshun-Simpson trade is considered to be one of the worst in Reds history.



We traded Pappas for Clay Carroll.

Simpson was traded for Alex Johnson.

Johnson was flipped for Jim McGlothin, Pedro Borbon and Vern Ghieshert.

Geishert and a Janish clone (Frank Duffy) brought us George Foster.

The trade, in the end, turned out just fine.

Always Red
04-24-2012, 02:38 PM
We traded Pappas for Clay Carroll.

Simpson was traded for Alex Johnson.

Johnson was flipped for Jim McGlothin, Pedro Borbon and Vern Ghieshert.

Geishert and a Janish clone (Frank Duffy) brought us George Foster.

The trade, in the end, turned out just fine.

Stop making sense.

RIP Jim McGlothlin, who passed at far too young an age.

Vottomatic
04-24-2012, 03:03 PM
What's up with Danny Herrera?

757690
04-24-2012, 03:05 PM
What's up with Danny Herrera?

Tommy John surgery.

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2012/4/20/2962618/danny-ray-herrera-needs-tommy-john-surgery

Sea Ray
04-24-2012, 04:01 PM
Tommy John surgery.

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2012/4/20/2962618/danny-ray-herrera-needs-tommy-john-surgery

How do you tear a ligament throwing a mile or so above the speed limit?:dunno:

dougdirt
04-24-2012, 04:05 PM
How do you tear a ligament throwing a mile or so above the speed limit?:dunno:

Mechanics. Overuse. Bad luck.

brad1176
04-24-2012, 04:06 PM
How do you tear a ligament throwing a mile or so above the speed limit?:dunno:

:laugh:

Danny was never one to test the high end of a radar gun, that's for sure! I'd guess the injury came from throwing the screwball. I read somewhere that Carl Hubbell threw it until his arm was deformed.

Sea Ray
04-24-2012, 04:36 PM
Danny was never one to test the high end of a radar gun, that's for sure! I'd guess the injury came from throwing the screwball. I read somewhere that Carl Hubbell threw it until his arm was deformed.

Yet Mike Marshall swears that you can throw that pitch all day...

paulrichjr
04-25-2012, 07:40 PM
Sitting at Camden Yards right now (amazing place to watch a game....just amazing) I am reminded of another ex-Reds player. I am sitting 40 ft from Edwin Encarnacion....first inning routine ground ball bobbled for an error. I looked at my son and said that is why he isn't wearing Red anymore. I just wish Rolen could hit.

By the way.... Have I said how much I love this place. Honestly I have been a lot of new stadiums and this is my favorite. It is a classic. Also Stub Hub is awesome....picked up 3 tix for 40 each in the second row right beside dugout.

Edit: couple of innings later couldn't make another play that while not as routine as first reminds you how good Rolen is....

dabvu2498
04-25-2012, 11:42 PM
Yet Mike Marshall swears that you can throw that pitch all day...

In Marshall's defense, he's talking about completely changing pitching mechanics, not just throwing the screwball.

He may be totally crazy.

Marshall Pitchng Motion - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUgQXJlTSaU)

Scrap Irony
04-26-2012, 12:02 PM
As of 26 April:

--Edinson Volquez has a 4.30 ERA and is leading the league in BBs with 15. His H/9 is exemplary at 7.4.
--Yonder Alonso has brought his average up to 217. His BB:K ratio is solid (7:11), but he's showing little power (5 doubles, no HR, 3B). He leads all 1B in errors.
--Yasmani Grandal is smoking the ball in AAA, with a .500 BA (and 1.277 OPS) in his first four games.
--Brad Boxberger has an ERA over 6.00 in AAA and one save. He's striking out a ton, but has given up a BB for every inning he's thrown (7, in all).

--Mat Latos has a 5.64 ERA in four starts, with more hits than IP and only 5.6 K/9.

Benihana
04-26-2012, 12:04 PM
As of 26 April:

Edinson Volquez has a 4.30 ERA and is leading the league in BBs with 15. His H/9 is exemplary at 7.4.
Yonder Alonso has brought his average up to 217. His BB:K ratio is solid (7:11), but he's showing little power (5 doubles, no HR, 3B). He leads all 1B in errors.
Yasmani Grandal is smoking the ball in AAA, with a .500 BA (and 1.277 OPS) in his first four games.
Brad Boxberger has an ERA over 6.00 in AAA and one save. He's striking out a ton, but has given up a BB for every inning he's thrown (7, in all).

Mat Latos has a 5.64 ERA in four starts, with more hits than IP and only 5.6 K/9.

Way too early and small of a sample size, but it's looking like Volquez and Boxberger were not huge losses. They are the main two I was concerned about because they play positions that could have actually been helpful to this year's Reds squad.

Alonso and Grandal, no matter what they do, really had and have nowhere to play. Nice to see Grandal raking in AAA, as long as Mesoraco does the same in the big leagues.

Could Boxberger be the next Josh Roenicke? (At least Roenicke in Toronto- Roenicke in Colorado is actually looking like he could contribute).

fearofpopvol1
04-26-2012, 03:08 PM
As of 26 April:

--Edinson Volquez has a 4.30 ERA and is leading the league in BBs with 15. His H/9 is exemplary at 7.4.
--Yonder Alonso has brought his average up to 217. His BB:K ratio is solid (7:11), but he's showing little power (5 doubles, no HR, 3B). He leads all 1B in errors.
--Yasmani Grandal is smoking the ball in AAA, with a .500 BA (and 1.277 OPS) in his first four games.
--Brad Boxberger has an ERA over 6.00 in AAA and one save. He's striking out a ton, but has given up a BB for every inning he's thrown (7, in all).

--Mat Latos has a 5.64 ERA in four starts, with more hits than IP and only 5.6 K/9.

At least Latos is coming off an absolute gem and has a proven track record at The Show.

The rub on Boxberger has always been the walks. I wonder if that will continue to haunt him.

Volquez is and will always be a question mark. I'm just not sure he would be the best 5th starter the Reds go throw out this year. The bullpen would've been an interesting idea, but the walks would still be a concern no matter what.

It's hard to measure too much about Alonso's power seeing as how he plays in Petco, but I think he will come around.

Even though Grandal wasn't going to have a real place to play, I always felt he was going to decide who won or lost the trade. I'm not sure either way, but I had wished the Reds would have kept him back and used other players instead to complete the Latos trade. I think if they had held on to Grandal, they could've used him in another trade to fill other spots.

gilpdawg
04-27-2012, 03:35 AM
Volquez had a nice start tonight. 7 IP 3 h, 1 r, only one walk and 7 k's.
Run on a solo shot by Werth.

_Sir_Charles_
04-27-2012, 09:47 AM
Ronald Torreyes is 10 for his last 22 with 3 walks and 1 k. Up to .276. After the early season slump, he's looking like his old self. Damn it.

Benihana
04-27-2012, 12:12 PM
Ronald Torreyes is 10 for his last 22 with 3 walks and 1 k. Up to .276. After the early season slump, he's looking like his old self. Damn it.

With BP's extension, Cozart's hot start, and DiDi and Hamilton tearing it up in the minors, it doesn't really look like we have room for a middle infielder any time this decade anyway.

kaldaniels
04-27-2012, 02:41 PM
Ronald Torreyes is 10 for his last 22 with 3 walks and 1 k. Up to .276. After the early season slump, he's looking like his old self. Damn it.

You're great Sir, but did you just cherry pick a small sample size?

_Sir_Charles_
04-27-2012, 05:50 PM
You're great Sir, but did you just cherry pick a small sample size?

Well, anything this season is going to be a small sample isn't it? I just took his most recent games since he's broken out of his early season slump. Last 6 or 7 games IIRC.

Vottomatic
04-29-2012, 10:35 AM
With BP's extension, Cozart's hot start, and DiDi and Hamilton tearing it up in the minors, it doesn't really look like we have room for a middle infielder any time this decade anyway.

Our top prospects will be used to gain us a quality 3B and LF, most likely. And possibly another top pitcher like Latos.

Kc61
04-29-2012, 10:37 AM
Our top prospects will be used to gain us a quality 3B and LF, most likely. And possibly another top pitcher like Latos.

I don't expect Reds to trade Billy Hamilton. He is too exciting. He can be an attendance and TV draw.

Agree that virtually anyone else is potential trade bait, but I'd be surprised if Hamilton is traded.

paulrichjr
04-29-2012, 12:56 PM
I don't expect Reds to trade Billy Hamilton. He is too exciting. He can be an attendance and TV draw.

Agree that virtually anyone else is potential trade bait, but I'd be surprised if Hamilton is traded.

I will be ticked if he gets traded. Check out the article from the Enquirer quoting Griffey....says he can do things he hasn't seen anyone ever do in 40 years of watching baseball.

lollipopcurve
04-29-2012, 01:10 PM
They won't trade Hamilton. He's had plenty of publicity in Cincy already -- that's a sign, IMO.

reds44
04-29-2012, 04:32 PM
Edwin Encarnacion is hitting .310/.361/.644 for the Jays.

757690
04-29-2012, 04:40 PM
Edwin Encarnacion is hitting .310/.361/.644 for the Jays.

As their DH.

HokieRed
04-29-2012, 04:40 PM
Edwin Encarnacion is hitting .310/.361/.644 for the Jays.

Be careful. I mentioned EE favorably ten days ago or so and got all kinds of RZ rebuff.

reds44
04-29-2012, 04:41 PM
As their DH.
Yes, do DH's not count or something?

Oh, and just because I know why you said it, you could live with his defense in LF (or anywhere) with that offensive production.

Scrap Irony
04-29-2012, 06:48 PM
If he continues to hit like that for the entire year, sure.

So far in his career, he hasn't.

Nice to see EdE hit it well, though.

fearofpopvol1
04-29-2012, 07:15 PM
Yes, do DH's not count or something?

Oh, and just because I know why you said it, you could live with his defense in LF (or anywhere) with that offensive production.

What position would he play on the Reds? Does the NL now have the DH position?

dougdirt
04-29-2012, 07:16 PM
What position would he play on the Reds? Does the NL now have the DH position?

He said that left field would be a position he could play.

fearofpopvol1
04-29-2012, 07:19 PM
He said that left field would be a position he could play.

Oops, missed that. Thanks for pointing that out. At any rate, any offensive value he would provide with his bat I'm guessing would be offset by bad defense.

fearofpopvol1
04-29-2012, 07:22 PM
They won't trade Hamilton. He's had plenty of publicity in Cincy already -- that's a sign, IMO.

I think it's going to largely depend on whether or not he can stick at SS. If he moves over to 2B, he doesn't become as valuable to the Reds unless the Reds trade Phillips before he has 10/5 rights. I don't see that happening, but maybe it will.

Hamilton at 3B could be a possibility I suppose, if he could stick there.

edabbs44
04-29-2012, 07:34 PM
Yes, do DH's not count or something?

Oh, and just because I know why you said it, you could live with his defense in LF (or anywhere) with that offensive production.

Raise your hand if you think that the Reds should have kept him, put him in LF, paid him $11MM over the past three years, kept him after watching the same offensive production as we saw prior, and stuck it out until he possibly turned a corner in 2012?

Oh, and that's to say that he would be doing the same thing in Cincy while playing the field and not DHing in the Skydome, where he is making all of the impact.

dabvu2498
04-29-2012, 09:05 PM
He said that left field would be a position he could play.

Of course, he's 29 and has never played a game in the OF as a professional.

757690
04-29-2012, 09:50 PM
Raise your hand if you think that the Reds should have kept him, put him in LF, paid him $11MM over the past three years, kept him after watching the same offensive production as we saw prior, and stuck it out until he possibly turned a corner in 2012?

Oh, and that's to say that he would be doing the same thing in Cincy while playing the field and not DHing in the Skydome, where he is making all of the impact.

Actually, the Reds just needed to pick him off of waivers when the Jays waived him or sign him as a free agent when the A's released him in 2010. I think says all you need to know about EE's value.

Cedric
04-29-2012, 09:53 PM
Watched tape of his swing last night and I was floored. Very compact and therefore is letting the ball travel far into the zone.

I wouldn't be shocked if he turns into a legitimate 4/5 bat for years to come. Someone is coaching these guys well in Toronto, IMO.

kaldaniels
04-29-2012, 09:59 PM
They won't trade Hamilton. He's had plenty of publicity in Cincy already -- that's a sign, IMO.

Funny...that wasn't the case for the last Hamilton in the organization to get publicity. :(

edabbs44
04-29-2012, 10:04 PM
Edwin had 2 non-small sample size .900 plus OPS months in 2006. Ended up with an .831 OPS.

Edwin had 2 .900 plus OPS months in 2007. Ended up with a .794 OPS.

Edwin had 3 .900 plus OPS months in 2008. Ended up with an .807 OPS.

Edwin had 2 .900 plus OPS months in 2009. Ended up with a .729 OPS.

Edwin had 2 .900 plus OPS months in 2010. Ended up with a .787 OPS.

Edwin had 2 .900 plus OPS months in 2011. Ended up with a .787 OPS.

Odds are that this is more of the same, but we should probably just wait it out a bit before making any wide ranging proclamations on his success.

Ron Madden
04-29-2012, 10:54 PM
Even though Edwin has had his ups and downs with the Jays his numbers are as good or better than Rolen's numbers since the trade.

PuffyPig
04-29-2012, 10:56 PM
Even though Edwin has had his ups and downs with the Jays his numbers are as good or better than Rolen's numbers since the trade.

And those fielding numbers.......

Tom Servo
04-29-2012, 11:04 PM
IIRC didn't the Jays at one point non-tender EE? Anybody who wanted him could have had him.

WVRedsFan
04-29-2012, 11:15 PM
They play him a lot at first base. He wouldn't able to do that here. I've watched him at third over the last three years, and I think he has regressed.

Ron Madden
04-30-2012, 12:45 AM
And those fielding numbers.......


Was talking about his offensive numbers.. And yes the Jays did put Edwin on waivers.. but his numbers are still as good or better than Rolen's.

oregonred
04-30-2012, 12:49 AM
In a thread title listing seven former Red properties traded in the two big offseason deals, we've managed to come full circle back to an old Redszone polarizing favorite (EdE) from summer 2009. Surely Bender and Felipe Lopez will soon follow :)

reds44
04-30-2012, 01:09 AM
Raise your hand if you think that the Reds should have kept him, put him in LF, paid him $11MM over the past three years, kept him after watching the same offensive production as we saw prior, and stuck it out until he possibly turned a corner in 2012?

Oh, and that's to say that he would be doing the same thing in Cincy while playing the field and not DHing in the Skydome, where he is making all of the impact.
Where did I say any of that? Literally all I pointed out were his numbers and then "you people" begin the anti-EE assault.

Ron Madden
04-30-2012, 03:36 AM
Was talking about his offensive numbers.. And yes the Jays did put Edwin on waivers.. but his numbers are still as good or better than Rolen's.

Didn't mention his defense or say the Reds shoulda kept him.. just brought up an opinion about his numbers..

dougdirt
04-30-2012, 06:32 AM
IIRC didn't the Jays at one point non-tender EE? Anybody who wanted him could have had him.

Couldn't the same be said for his teammate who has hit a 110 home runs over the last two and a half seasons? Sometimes a zebra does change his offensive stripes.

edabbs44
04-30-2012, 07:07 AM
Jonny Gomes has an .896 OPS this season as he pounds RHP and struggles vs LHP. Also killing it as a DH.

edabbs44
04-30-2012, 07:09 AM
Couldn't the same be said for his teammate who has hit a 110 home runs over the last two and a half seasons? Sometimes a zebra does change his offensive stripes.

Let's give it more than a month before going there.

dougdirt
04-30-2012, 07:11 AM
Let's give it more than a month before going there.

I am not saying EE has changed. I am saying that the excuse that anyone could have had him for free at some point in time doesn't tell us much of anything. I conveyed that poorly in my previous post.

edabbs44
04-30-2012, 07:15 AM
I am not saying EE has changed. I am saying that the excuse that anyone could have had him for free at some point in time doesn't tell us much of anything. I conveyed that poorly in my previous post.

It tells us more than the Bautista example does in that context.

757690
04-30-2012, 08:32 AM
I am not saying EE has changed. I am saying that the excuse that anyone could have had him for free at some point in time doesn't tell us much of anything. I conveyed that poorly in my previous post.

Teams could have had Josh Hamilton and Johan Santana for $50,000 in the rule five draft, and every team had 15 chances to pick Albert Pujols in the June draft.

The fact that a handfull of players eligible for the rule five draft and available in the 16th round of the June draft turned out to be great, doesn't change the fact that 99% of them aren't very good. The same is true for players placed on waivers.

The fact that a player was once placed on waivers tells us bostloads about that player. It tells us that the odds are high that he will ever be at least a league average player. Sure some do, but the vast majority do not.

dougdirt
04-30-2012, 08:37 AM
Teams could have had Josh Hamilton and Johan Santana for $50,000 in the rule five draft, and every team had 15 chances to pick Albert Pujols in the June draft.

The fact that a handfull of players eligible for the rule five draft and available in the 16th round of the June draft turned out to be great, doesn't change the fact that 99% of them aren't very good. The same is true for players placed on waivers.

The fact that a player was once placed on waivers tells us bostloads about that player. It tells us that the odds are high that he will ever be at least a league average player. Sure some do, but the vast majority do not.

Edwin has actually been an above average hitter in his career, with a career 106 OPS+.

And while you are right that someone being placed on waivers probably tells us something about that player, it doesn't mean that there aren't exceptions. Edwin has generally been a solid hitter, it has been his defense that has been the problem in his game.

Tom Servo
04-30-2012, 08:16 PM
Edwin just clubbed another HR.

camisadelgolf
04-30-2012, 08:28 PM
Speaking of EE, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart have been pitching out of the bullpen for the Rockies and White Sox, respectively.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/roenijo01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stewaza01.shtml

edabbs44
04-30-2012, 10:13 PM
Edwin just clubbed another HR.

Edwin is crazy at the Skydome.

membengal
05-01-2012, 06:20 AM
Edwin is crazy at the Skydome.

Indeed. MUCH easier to hit there than pitcher friendly GABP...wait, what?

edabbs44
05-01-2012, 07:05 AM
Indeed. MUCH easier to hit there than pitcher friendly GABP...wait, what?

Just makes you wonder.

757690
05-01-2012, 07:54 AM
Indeed. MUCH easier to hit there than pitcher friendly GABP...wait, what?

Rogers Centre has been a better hitters park than GABP every year from 2009 to now, according to MLB Park Factors.

membengal
05-01-2012, 08:28 AM
Rogers Centre has been a better hitters park than GABP every year from 2009 to now, according to MLB Park Factors.

Cool. And GABP is such a pitcher's paradise, right?

membengal
05-01-2012, 08:28 AM
The EE hate on this board is silly.

membengal
05-01-2012, 08:29 AM
Just makes you wonder.

Oh. I would guess that's another one of your veiled accusations of steroid use by a player. Ok.

Sea Ray
05-01-2012, 10:02 AM
Rogers Centre has been a better hitters park than GABP every year from 2009 to now, according to MLB Park Factors.

Anyone see Coco blow a save there on Friday night? He had some horrible defense behind him but he still was very hittable. Same old Coco. We know him well

westofyou
05-01-2012, 10:03 AM
Oh. I would guess that's another one of your veiled accusations of steroid use by a player. Ok.

A one instrument band that is

Orenda
05-01-2012, 01:44 PM
DENO sighting, 926 OPS plus beard

Scrap Irony
05-01-2012, 03:30 PM
Speaking of EE, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart have been pitching out of the bullpen for the Rockies and White Sox, respectively.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/roenijo01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stewaza01.shtml

Stewart better step it up.

It's going to be awfully hard to win a Cy Young as a middle reliever.

CTA513
05-01-2012, 03:34 PM
I'm not sure if I saw it here or some place else, but one of the changes Encarnacion is said to have made is keeping both hands on the bat all the way through his swing.

Sea Ray
05-01-2012, 04:46 PM
Congrats to EE on his offensive numbers but like Adam Dunn, it couldn't have happened here due to the lack of a position for him. Clearly the BJs have made the decision that he hurts them too much in the field so they're playing him at DH with an occasional start at 1B. That's just plain not possible here

edabbs44
05-01-2012, 05:28 PM
Oh. I would guess that's another one of your veiled accusations of steroid use by a player. Ok.

Actually wasn't thinking that he is a user, unless they make PEDs that only work in Toronto or at the Skydome. But thanks anyway.

edabbs44
05-01-2012, 05:32 PM
A one instrument band that is

Disagree.

westofyou
05-01-2012, 10:08 PM
Disagree.

Your prerogative, but I note a pattern and I'm not alone in that.

edabbs44
05-02-2012, 05:58 AM
Your prerogative, but I note a pattern and I'm not alone in that.

That's fine. But we are talking about a guy with a 21/4 HR and 59/17 RBI home/road split over the last 7 months while there are recent allegations of the team cheating at their home park.

To me, it seems fishy.

westofyou
05-02-2012, 09:42 AM
That's fine. But we are talking about a guy with a 21/4 HR and 59/17 RBI home/road split over the last 7 months while there are recent allegations of the team cheating at their home park.

To me, it seems fishy.

He's a modern day Ned Williamson?

Tony Cloninger
05-02-2012, 10:06 AM
Indeed. MUCH easier to hit there than pitcher friendly GABP...wait, what?


Fred Lewis came in here and after OPS numbers well over .700....could barely crack .650 while playing here....after playing half his games in SF where he almost hit .800 OPS in 2008.

Ludwick was supposed to come in here and re-discover his swing here and power. Nothing so far. Maybe it's the teflon hitting coach they have here.

dougdirt
05-02-2012, 10:07 AM
Fred Lewis came in here and after OPS numbers well over .700....could barely crack .650 while playing here....after playing half his games in SF where he almost hit .800 OPS in 2008.

Ludwick was supposed to come in here and re-discover his swing here and power. Nothing so far. Maybe it's the teflon hitting coach they have here.

Or maybe it's just that we picked up those guys on the wrong side of their career arcs.

The guys who we have who we figured could hit, seem to always hit. The guys we always have questions about, tend to continue to have questions about them. How does that fall on the hitting coach?

Vottomatic
05-02-2012, 10:15 AM
Fred Lewis
Willy Tavares
Corey Patterson
Ryan Ludwick

Great signings by Walt.

Scrap Irony
05-02-2012, 10:17 AM
Fred Lewis
Willy Tavares
Corey Patterson
Ryan Ludwick

Great signings by Walt.

Might be wise to wait until the ball starts carrying before lumping Ludwick in with the other guys.

Tony Cloninger
05-02-2012, 11:14 AM
Or maybe it's just that we picked up those guys on the wrong side of their career arcs.

The guys who we have who we figured could hit, seem to always hit. The guys we always have questions about, tend to continue to have questions about them. How does that fall on the hitting coach?

So you are happy with this Hitting Coach and how he has developed the hitters here?

757690
05-02-2012, 11:18 AM
Fred Lewis
Willy Tavares
Corey Patterson
Ryan Ludwick

Great signings by Walt.

Patterson was Krivsky.

dougdirt
05-02-2012, 11:23 AM
So you are happy with this Hitting Coach and how he has developed the hitters here?

MLB hitting coaches don't develop guys. By the time they get their hands on these guys, they are generally developed. The guys we expected to hit, have. The guys we expected not to, haven't. I can' see that going on the hitting coach one way or the other. Do you see him as failing to do something? If so, what.

757690
05-02-2012, 11:26 AM
Volquez pitched a gem last night against the Brewers. 7 IP 3 hits 0 runs.

Let's hope he's this good when he faces the Cardinal's.

Sea Ray
05-02-2012, 12:03 PM
MLB hitting coaches don't develop guys. By the time they get their hands on these guys, they are generally developed. The guys we expected to hit, have. The guys we expected not to, haven't. I can' see that going on the hitting coach one way or the other. Do you see him as failing to do something? If so, what.

Maybe I'm being unfair but I do blame the hitting coach for a team that as a whole does not generally have "good at bats"...that is swinging at bad pitches, letting good pitches go by and generally not seeing enough pitches per AB. I've given him a pass on this for awhile but he's been here long enough. I'd sure like to see a guy like Hal McKrae, Merv Rettenmund or Mike Easler come in here

dougdirt
05-02-2012, 12:13 PM
Maybe I'm being unfair but I do blame the hitting coach for a team that as a whole does not generally have "good at bats"...that is swinging at bad pitches, letting good pitches go by and generally not seeing enough pitches per AB. I've given him a pass on this for awhile but he's been here long enough. I'd sure like to see a guy like Hal McKrae, Merv Rettenmund or Mike Easler come in here

The hitting coach can't teach a guy how to see a breaking ball instead of a fastball. That is something that the player has to be able to figure out.

edabbs44
05-02-2012, 12:37 PM
He's a modern day Ned Williamson?

Did he have a distinct split like EdE with parallel allegations of cheating?

Tom Servo
05-02-2012, 01:35 PM
Patterson was Krivsky.
Don't let facts get in the way of bashing somebody.

reds44
05-02-2012, 03:06 PM
EE just hit #9.

Ron Madden
05-02-2012, 03:11 PM
EE just hit #9.

Good for Edwin.. I rooting for him. :thumbup:

reds44
05-02-2012, 03:14 PM
Brandon Phillips 2B
Josh Hamilton LF
Joey Votto 1B
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Jay Bruce RF
Zack Cozart SS
Drew Stubbs CF
Devin Mesoraco C

Quite the lineup.

paulrichjr
05-02-2012, 03:20 PM
Brandon Phillips 2B
Josh Hamilton LF
Joey Votto 1B
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Jay Bruce RF
Zack Cozart SS
Drew Stubbs CF
Devin Mesoraco C

Quite the lineup.

If you look back a couple of pages I discussed EdE playing third base in a game I attended last week in Baltimore. I sat less than 50 ft from him. The dude CANNOT play 3B. He is terrible. He makes routine plays look scary.

reds44
05-02-2012, 03:21 PM
If you look back a couple of pages I discussed EdE playing third base in a game I attended last week in Baltimore. I sat less than 50 ft from him. The dude CANNOT play 3B. He is terrible. He makes routine plays look scary.
Haha I know that.

757690
05-02-2012, 03:26 PM
Brandon Phillips 2B
Josh Hamilton LF
Joey Votto 1B
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Jay Bruce RF
Zack Cozart SS
Drew Stubbs CF
Devin Mesoraco C

Quite the lineup.

If you're going to put EE at 3B, might as well have this lineup.

Phillips 2B
Alonso SS
Votto 1B
EE 3B
Hamilton LF
Dunn C
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF

;)

klw
05-02-2012, 03:33 PM
If you're going to put EE at 3B, might as well have this lineup.

Phillips 2B
Alonso SS
Votto1B
EE 3B
Hamilton LF
Dunn C
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF

;)

Nah what you want is:

Phillips 2B
Alonso CF
Votto C
EE 3B
Hamilton LF
Dunn 1b
Bruce RF
Wily MO SS (originally signed as a ss or 3b IIRC)

Wow what a lefty heavy lineup. Would shatter K records too- not that that matters.

Orenda
05-02-2012, 07:45 PM
Nah what you want is:

Phillips 2B
Alonso CF
Votto C
EE 3B
Hamilton LF
Dunn 1b
Bruce RF
Wily MO SS (originally signed as a ss or 3b IIRC)

Wow what a lefty heavy lineup. Would shatter K records too- not that that matters.

blashphemy

1b Dunn
2b cozart
ss Phillips
3b Rolen
lf Votto
cf Hamilton
rf Bruce
c mesigan

Tom Servo
05-02-2012, 08:01 PM
Brandon Larson is always available to play 3rd.

Playadlc
05-03-2012, 03:48 AM
That's fine. But we are talking about a guy with a 21/4 HR and 59/17 RBI home/road split over the last 7 months while there are recent allegations of the team cheating at their home park.

To me, it seems fishy.

I had no idea what you were talking about so I went and searched the internet and found the ESPN mag article (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/6837424/baseball-toronto-blue-jays-suspicion-again-stealing-signs-rogers-centre) talking about the sign stealing allegations. Somehow I missed this last season.

I'm not a conspriacy theory kind of guy, but it is weird.

edabbs44
05-03-2012, 07:07 AM
I had no idea what you were talking about so I went and searched the internet and found the ESPN mag article (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/6837424/baseball-toronto-blue-jays-suspicion-again-stealing-signs-rogers-centre) talking about the sign stealing allegations. Somehow I missed this last season.

I'm not a conspriacy theory kind of guy, but it is weird.

It's even better when you hear about how the Blue Jays "fixed" something in their swing to account for the spike in performance. Kind of like how we used to hear so much about the legendary workout regimens of Bonds and Clemens.

Maybe EdE figured it out...but I have my doubts. I do think we have reason to believe that he wouldn't be having that same success in Cincy.

Tony Cloninger
05-03-2012, 10:47 AM
MLB hitting coaches don't develop guys. By the time they get their hands on these guys, they are generally developed. The guys we expected to hit, have. The guys we expected not to, haven't. I can' see that going on the hitting coach one way or the other. Do you see him as failing to do something? If so, what.

So the adjustments Kevin Long made with Curtis Granderson or the ones that have been made with EE...cannot be made to help someone like Heisey....who could probably use them? I know Stubbs cannot just be taught to learn pitch selection and recognition. I know when I played through college...I stalled after 2 years because of my inability to decipher a slider. I could always work a count and recognize a curveball..but not a slider. I pretty much put myself in knots and would then start taking strikes and swinging at balls. I peaked as a Juan Castro type in college.
Stance wise though.... I always made some adjustments to help myself and so did the hitting coach. Yes,...it is only college...but we were also told as early as 1986 to work the count on any new pitcher.

The philosophy in Boston is a prefect example..... Darnell McDonald goes there and he actually works counts. Does not go up there swinging all the time. Darnell McDonald may not walk a lot more but he is not up there hacking. How does he learn to do that?

You know the people in this organization better. If you say it is through Baker that these hitters get their hitting philosophy...then Jacoby is just some puppet mouthpiece?

Ron Madden
05-03-2012, 11:02 AM
It's even better when you hear about how the Blue Jays "fixed" something in their swing to account for the spike in performance. Kind of like how we used to hear so much about the legendary workout regimens of Bonds and Clemens.

Maybe EdE figured it out...but I have my doubts. I do think we have reason to believe that he wouldn't be having that same success in Cincy.

I guess if we dislike a player and he puts up some good numbers It means he has to be cheating. He has to be cheating I know because I don't like him. :rolleyes:

dougdirt
05-03-2012, 11:03 AM
So the adjustments Kevin Long made with Curtis Granderson or the ones that have been made with EE...cannot be made to help someone like Heisey....who could probably use them? I know Stubbs cannot just be taught to learn pitch selection and recognition. I know when I played through college...I stalled after 2 years because of my inability to decipher a slider. I could always work a count and recognize a curveball..but not a slider. I pretty much put myself in knots and would then start taking strikes and swinging at balls. I peaked as a Juan Castro type in college.

Some guys can and do make changes that work. Most guys generally don't. And really, until the player wants to accept the changes and fully buy in, the coach can try to make them until they are blue in the face.




The philosophy in Boston is a prefect example..... Darnell McDonald goes there and he actually works counts. Does not go up there swinging all the time. Darnell McDonald may not walk a lot more but he is not up there hacking. How does he learn to do that?
McDonald had his first real exposure to the Majors as a Red. Ever since he left, he has done better, but it is pretty much in line with what he did in the minors. My guess is that he was just pressing given it was his first real exposure and he wanted to try and do too much.



You know the people in this organization better. If you say it is through Baker that these hitters get their hitting philosophy...then Jacoby is just some puppet mouthpiece?
I don't really know much about that side of things. I will say that it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Dusty is preaching aggressiveness and it leads to some guys hacking. But Dusty has also managed Barry Bonds and Joey Votto, who didn't seem to have that issue.

DGullett35
05-03-2012, 11:04 AM
The philosophy's of Boston, New York, and even Texas now are philosophy's that every team should try and mirror. They all work the starter to death to try and get into the bullpen. Thats there goal. They don't want the starter going more than 5 innings. I wish the Reds could do this. I think this offense would improve greatly. Im not saying take every pitch you see but they cannot be afraid to hit with 2 strikes. Votto seems to be the only red that understands this concept

edabbs44
05-03-2012, 11:52 AM
I guess if we dislike a player and he puts up some good numbers It means he has to be cheating. He has to be cheating I know because I don't like him. :rolleyes:

I had no idea that I disliked Edwin.

klw
05-03-2012, 11:57 AM
Torreyes is 1 for his last 21 and his average is back down to .215 on the year, Sappelt continues to struggle as well. Wood has an ERA over 5 at the moment.

Francisco is 2 for his last 26 and his OBP is down to .238.

JJ Hoover has yet to give up a hit or run in 4 innings.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2011-advanced-batting.shtml

Grandal is back from his hamstring issue and is hitting well still though he has yet to make it in 10 games for the year.
Alonso is hitting .286 over his last 10 games and has his OPS up to .659 on the year.
Volquez has an era of 2.92 in 37 innings with 18 bb's and 33 k's in the 6 starts.

dougdirt
05-03-2012, 12:04 PM
Sappelt has 8 walks and 13 strikeouts in 96 PA's with some flash of power. He is going to be just fine once his BABIP normalizes.

klw
05-03-2012, 12:06 PM
Sappelt has 8 walks and 13 strikeouts in 96 PA's with some flash of power. He is going to be just fine once his BABIP normalizes.

I must admit I am rooting for Sappelt and Torreyes even though they are not in the Reds system anymore.

REDREAD
05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
Fred Lewis
Willy Tavares
Corey Patterson
Ryan Ludwick

Great signings by Walt.

Walt did not sign Patterson. WayneK did that.
Wily, I'll give you.
Fred Lewis was a backup player, and paid as much.. you might as well complain about any of the 25th men on the bench. 900k (or whatever they paid Lewis) does not go far.

Jury is still out on Ludwick. His average has been bad, but he's gotten a few really key hits and RBIs. Doesn't mean he will continue to be "clutch", but it's too early to call him a disaster yet.

Scrap Irony
05-03-2012, 04:38 PM
I know Stubbs cannot just be taught to learn pitch selection and recognition. I know when I played through college...I stalled after 2 years because of my inability to decipher a slider.

My nickname was "6-3" because anything with a wrinkle was a two-hopper to the shortstop.

Kc61
05-03-2012, 04:51 PM
Walt did not sign Patterson. WayneK did that.
Wily, I'll give you.
Fred Lewis was a backup player, and paid as much.. you might as well complain about any of the 25th men on the bench. 900k (or whatever they paid Lewis) does not go far.

Jury is still out on Ludwick. His average has been bad, but he's gotten a few really key hits and RBIs. Doesn't mean he will continue to be "clutch", but it's too early to call him a disaster yet.

Freddie Lewis had a .342 OBP against righties last year for the Reds. Didn't hit for power, but got on base at a decent clip.

Wouldn't be a terrible guy right now for the bench.

HokieRed
05-03-2012, 04:58 PM
Freddie Lewis had a .342 OBP against righties last year for the Reds. Didn't hit for power, but got on base at a decent clip.

Wouldn't be a terrible guy right now for the bench.

Where'd he sign on? I'd certainly prefer him to Harris. Not to mention the much maligned Nix of the prior years.

LvJ
05-03-2012, 05:48 PM
Where'd he sign on? I'd certainly prefer him to Harris. Not to mention the much maligned Nix of the prior years.

Minor league deal with the Mets a few weeks ago. He's in Triple A Buffalo.

dabvu2498
05-03-2012, 07:41 PM
Where'd he sign on? I'd certainly prefer him to Harris. Not to mention the much maligned Nix of the prior years.

Nix went deep for the Phils today.

Tom Servo
05-04-2012, 02:03 PM
I don't know that Nix was much maligned; he was certainly more popular than Gomes most of the time.

fearofpopvol1
05-04-2012, 02:09 PM
Nix was "more popular" I believe because he was pretty good in the field. At least much better than Gomes was.

PuffyPig
05-04-2012, 02:09 PM
Sappelt has 8 walks and 13 strikeouts in 96 PA's with some flash of power. He is going to be just fine once his BABIP normalizes.


Of course, once he becomes "fine at the minor league level, he'll have to try again in the majors...."

Kc61
05-04-2012, 02:11 PM
Nix was "more popular" I believe because he was pretty good in the field. At least much better than Gomes was.

I haven't reviewed the numbers so forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly.

But I thought Nix hit very well at the end of his Reds' stint.

In other words, he started slowly as a Reds hitter, improved, and then was cut.

Something like that, if I recall.

757690
05-04-2012, 02:39 PM
I haven't reviewed the numbers so forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly.

But I thought Nix hit very well at the end of his Reds' stint.

In other words, he started slowly as a Reds hitter, improved, and then was cut.

Something like that, if I recall.

Nix was fine both years as a Red. A good lefty 4th OF.

He wasn't cut, just was a free agent and not re-signed. The Reds felt that they could replace him for less money. I believe Jeremy Hermedia and Fred Lewis were signed to replace him, and the Reds were hopeful that Francisco could also possibly take his place.

dougdirt
05-04-2012, 02:48 PM
Of course, once he becomes "fine at the minor league level, he'll have to try again in the majors...."

Sappelt is a .302 hitter in AAA with 46 walks and 66 strikeouts in essentially a full seasons worth of time there. He is fine at the minor league level. And after his first 10 games in the Majors, he was fine there too. Those first 10 games were a brutal adjustment though.

Vottomatic
05-05-2012, 12:09 PM
Juan Francisco - 4-5-12

.209, .222 OBP, 3 HR's, 9 rbi, 1 BB, 16 K's, 9 hits, 3 doubles, 43 at-bats

DGullett35
05-05-2012, 12:11 PM
Yonder had his first career 4 hit game last night. I have always thought hes going to be a very good major league hitter. Nice to see him doing well in his rookie season

Vottomatic
05-05-2012, 12:23 PM
Update 4-5-12

Sappelt - 95 at-bats, .232, 22 hits, 4 doubles, 1 triple, 3 HR's, 10 BB's, 14 K's, .305 OBP

Torreyes - 87 at-bats, .195, 17 hits, 3 doubles, 2 triples, 0 HR's, 7 BB's, 7 K's, .270 OBP

Wood - 5 starts, 28.1 IP, 35 hits allowed, 16 ER, 4 HR's, 8 BB's, 30 K's, .310 hitting against him, 5.08 e.r.a.

Grandal - .361, 36 at-bats, 13 hits, 2 doubles, 2 HR's, 10 BB's, 7 K's

Boxberger - 10 games in relief, 9.1 IP, 5 ER, 10 BB's, 11 K's, .235 hitting against him, 4.82 e.r.a.

Alonso - 88 at-bats, 24 hits, 9 doubles, 0 HR's, 9 BB's, 17 K's, .273, .343 OBP

Juan Francisco - .209, .222 OBP, 3 HR's, 9 rbi, 1 BB, 16 K's, 9 hits, 3 doubles, 43 at-bats

dougdirt
05-05-2012, 12:28 PM
So we moved four guys with good plate discipline and one guy with the worst ever? LOL

Kc61
05-05-2012, 01:06 PM
The trade of Grandal always concerned me, still does.

The others, no concern whatsoever.

dougdirt
05-05-2012, 01:07 PM
The trade of Grandal always concerned me, still does.

The others, no concern whatsoever.

Well, if Dusty sticks around, Grandal wouldn't be able to get anything resembling 'full time' until Mesoraco is in his last year before free agency anyways. Can't let rookies catch.

HokieRed
05-05-2012, 01:13 PM
The trade of Grandal always concerned me, still does.

The others, no concern whatsoever.

I miss Grandal too, but I also think we will come to regret trading Alonso. I'm not sure how much power he will produce but he is going to hit and will have a strong OBP because he has terrific pitch recognition and bat control. All I can say is that Latos had better produce to make this trade look like anything but a hosing.

LvJ
05-05-2012, 01:30 PM
I know we are all over the Edwin deal but figured I'd post this:

He leads the majors in home runs with 9. On pace to hit 54. .290/.350/.629

Good to see him stepping up his game!

dougdirt
05-05-2012, 01:32 PM
I know we are all over the Edwin deal but figured I'd post this:

He leads the majors in home runs with 9. On pace to hit 54. .290/.350/.629

Good to see him stepping up his game!

No, he leads the AL. Matt Kemp has 12.

Kc61
05-05-2012, 01:32 PM
I miss Grandal too, but I also think we will come to regret trading Alonso. I'm not sure how much power he will produce but he is going to hit and will have a strong OBP because he has terrific pitch recognition and bat control. All I can say is that Latos had better produce to make this trade look like anything but a hosing.

Grandal is a switch hitting catcher. If he can hit, as it seems, he will have great value. I hope the Reds made the correct choice keeping Mes (too soon to tell) and that they didn't give up Grandal too readily.

I have no concern over trading Alonso at all. He will be a good player and will have a high OBP, but my own take is that he will be a low HR first baseman. There's room for a lefty hitter like Alonso - I wish the Reds could add one - but his limitation to first base is the problem.

LvJ
05-05-2012, 01:33 PM
No, he leads the AL. Matt Kemp has 12.

Matt Kemp isn't human. Shh.

Tom Servo
05-05-2012, 01:41 PM
I imagine Alonso being a healthy version of Nick Johnson.

RedLegsToday
05-05-2012, 07:52 PM
Dunner hit a 2 run bomb in the top of the 9th to put the White Sox ahead today.

After hitting only 11 hr last year, that was his 8th of this season.

.250/.376/.573

CTA513
05-05-2012, 09:26 PM
Dunner hit a 2 run bomb in the top of the 9th to put the White Sox ahead today.

After hitting only 11 hr last year, that was his 8th of this season.

.250/.376/.573

Hes doing this while setting an MLB record for consecutive games with a strikeout.

Tornon
05-05-2012, 09:49 PM
Travis Wood is penciled in to make his Cubs debut tomorrow if Matt Garza is still out with the flu. Against Aaron Harang no less

Edit: I totally missed there was a separate thread devoted to this

reds44
05-06-2012, 01:51 AM
Volquez has a 2.92 ERA.

Tom Servo
05-06-2012, 02:09 AM
Volquez has a 2.92 ERA.
I still don't miss him. :dunno:

edabbs44
05-06-2012, 12:23 PM
Volquez has a 2.92 ERA.

He has a chance to continue that trend if he continues to pitch the vast majority of his games in a whale's vagina.

dougdirt
05-06-2012, 12:44 PM
He has a chance to continue that trend if he continues to pitch the vast majority of his games in a whale's vagina.

I see what you did there, and I approve. :thumbup: