PDA

View Full Version : NFL hammers Sean Payton/Saints for bounties



Revering4Blue
03-21-2012, 02:06 PM
The NFL came down hard on the New Orleans Saints on Wednesday.

Saints coach Sean Payton has been suspended for one year, former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was suspended indefinitely, general manager Mickey Loomis was suspended for eight regular-season games, the team was fined $500,000 and lost two second-round draft picks (one in 2012 and '13) as a result of a bounty program conducted by the team during the 2009-11 seasons

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7718136/sean-payton-new-orleans-saints-banned-one-year-bounties

cincrazy
03-21-2012, 02:09 PM
For one year? Are you KIDDING me?! Holy crap. Moral of the story: DO NOT PISS OFF ROGER GOODELL.

BuckeyeRed27
03-21-2012, 02:19 PM
It's harsh but I like it. You can't have stuff like that in the game and it sends a good message. I'm sure it's also strongly motivated by trying to prevent future lawsuits about not caring about player safety.

Assembly Hall
03-21-2012, 02:22 PM
It does seem harsh.......but the NFL has to do something considering the lawsuits coming up against them.

Stray
03-21-2012, 02:23 PM
There's one way to make sure this crap gets out of the game for good, by dropping down this kinda punishment. Good move for the NFL, ouch for the Saints.

RedFanAlways1966
03-21-2012, 02:24 PM
For one year? Are you KIDDING me?! Holy crap. Moral of the story: DO NOT PISS OFF ROGER GOODELL.

Or the moral may be "do not give cash payments for injuring another player". Injuries do happen (esp. in football), but to pay the guy who causes the injury is just wrong. I know other teams do it or have done it, but that does not make it right.

I am glad to see the punishment that was given.

cincrazy
03-21-2012, 02:31 PM
Or the moral may be "do not give cash payments for injuring another player". Injuries do happen (esp. in football), but to pay the guy who causes the injury is just wrong. I know other teams do it or have done it, but that does not make it right.

I am glad to see the punishment that was given.

Hey, I never said I was against the punishment. I think it's deplorable stuff. But let's be real, are the Saints the ONLY team in the NFL doing this? Or one of maybe a dozen? You mean to tell me the Ravens have never done this? The Steelers? The Jets? I simply don't believe it. I don't have a problem with the suspension, but if he gets evidence others have done it (and I'd be shocked if he didn't) he's got a hell of a standard to live up to.

RedFanAlways1966
03-21-2012, 02:34 PM
Hey, I never said I was against the punishment. I think it's deplorable stuff. But let's be real, are the Saints the ONLY team in the NFL doing this? Or one of maybe a dozen? You mean to tell me the Ravens have never done this? The Steelers? The Jets? I simply don't believe it. I don't have a problem with the suspension, but if he gets evidence others have done it (and I'd be shocked if he didn't) he's got a hell of a standard to live up to.

OK, I am glad you agree with it. We all know that others do it. But the Saints got caught red-handed and admitted it. Like the 1919 White Sox (not as severe of course!) you need to send a strong message to others in the hope that it stops.

cumberlandreds
03-21-2012, 03:22 PM
OK, I am glad you agree with it. We all know that others do it. But the Saints got caught red-handed and admitted it. Like the 1919 White Sox (not as severe of course!) you need to send a strong message to others in the hope that it stops.

You are right. The Saints were the unlucky ones to get caught. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if a good chunk of the teams had some sort of bounty system. It's been going on for as long as the NFL has been around. It was one those snicker and grin kinda things that were talked about in retirement banquets and such. Maybe this will put an end to these bounty's.

Roy Tucker
03-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Dang. Ka-boom.

I guess Goodell wants to make sure nobody else gets any big ideas about this.

Caveat Emperor
03-21-2012, 03:41 PM
The NFL's "SMU Moment" -- give someone the death penalty and use it as an example for all time.

Oh, and Drew Brees is coming off like a total idiot right now. He'd be the first dude getting self-righteous if it came out other players were targeting him for a season-ending / career-ending injury in exchange for cash. Now he's defending Payton and demanding explanations.

RedsBaron
03-21-2012, 03:57 PM
I am somewhat surprised that Payton was suspended for a full season; I was expecting a suspension of between 4 to 8 games. I have no problem with the penalties though. I wonder if Gregg Williams will or should ever work in the NFL again.

Sea Ray
03-21-2012, 05:14 PM
Hey, I never said I was against the punishment. I think it's deplorable stuff. But let's be real, are the Saints the ONLY team in the NFL doing this? Or one of maybe a dozen? You mean to tell me the Ravens have never done this? The Steelers? The Jets? I simply don't believe it. I don't have a problem with the suspension, but if he gets evidence others have done it (and I'd be shocked if he didn't) he's got a hell of a standard to live up to.

The fact that others may be doing it is exactly why this punishment is a good one. It's meant to put a stop to it pronto

Sea Ray
03-21-2012, 05:16 PM
I am somewhat surprised that Payton was suspended for a full season; I was expecting a suspension of between 4 to 8 games. I have no problem with the penalties though. I wonder if Gregg Williams will or should ever work in the NFL again.

Details are sketchy but from what I've heard one of the reasons Payton and Williams were hit so hard was because they lied about it initially. The NFL doesn't take too kindly to that

Stray
03-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Apparently Warren Sapp is saying Jeremy Shockey was the one who 'snitched'.

Wonderful Monds
03-21-2012, 05:39 PM
Apparently Warren Sapp is saying Jeremy Shockey was the one who 'snitched'.

How dare he!

dougdirt
03-21-2012, 08:04 PM
How dare he!

The culture in sports doesn't look kindly on things like that. Rightly or wrongly, Shockey is going to have a hard time making friends around the league if people believe he is the guy who leaked the details.

Todd Gack
03-21-2012, 08:57 PM
LOL @ Goodell.

If you want to come and say you're angered by the lying, then go ahead and say that. But to say it's 'deplorable' or not 'accepted' in the NFL is incredulous. If they're legal hits, why are they getting fined? Everyone tries to hit everyone as hard as possible. Whether or not a DC rewards a team for legal hits doesn't matter.

And I'll be patiently waiting for Mr. Goodell to fine the Bills and Redskins for the same thing that happened in New Orleans.

Redsfaithful
03-21-2012, 09:44 PM
I think Goodell is worried about the long term viability of the NFL.

Sea Ray
03-21-2012, 10:18 PM
LOL @ Goodell.

If you want to come and say you're angered by the lying, then go ahead and say that. But to say it's 'deplorable' or not 'accepted' in the NFL is incredulous. If they're legal hits, why are they getting fined? Everyone tries to hit everyone as hard as possible. Whether or not a DC rewards a team for legal hits doesn't matter.

And I'll be patiently waiting for Mr. Goodell to fine the Bills and Redskins for the same thing that happened in New Orleans.

The no bounty rule is posted in every locker room. This speaks to the integrity of the NFL and thwey have every right to defend their integrity.


Detroit Lions defensive end Lawrence Jackson took a similar stance.

In every locker room, its posted clearly: No exceptions to the rule on bounties for hurting people, he said at a sports conference in Boston Saturday. I just dont believe its right, on a human level.

http://theadvocate.com/sports/saints/2225658-123/bounty-claims-not-shocking-to.html

If players ignored that sign, lied to the league investigators then they deserve whatever comes next when they're caught

WVRed
03-21-2012, 11:12 PM
I'm surprised this didn't make it onto this thread, but Goodell has told teams that they have until March 30th to investigate their teams and report if a bounty program exists. If it isn't reported and found to be in place, the punishment is harsher.

I think if this had been Belichick it would have been half the season. Hitting the Saints isn't going to cause as much of a crapstorm as if it had been in a major media market.

Chip R
03-22-2012, 12:09 AM
I think Goodell is worried about the long term viability of the NFL.

He better be. If insurers feel that football (not just the NFL) is not worth the risk to insure the participants, it's going to collapse like a house of cards.

KronoRed
03-22-2012, 01:03 AM
Would anybody really be surprised to find out such a program exists on almost every NFL team? though maybe not as brazen as the Saints did it.

Redsfaithful
03-22-2012, 07:34 AM
He better be. If insurers feel that football (not just the NFL) is not worth the risk to insure the participants, it's going to collapse like a house of cards.

Yep. Really weird to think about, I'd hate to lose football, but I'm not sure it can really be made safe enough.

RedFanAlways1966
03-22-2012, 07:45 AM
Yep. Really weird to think about, I'd hate to lose football, but I'm not sure it can really be made safe enough.

I agree. Same for boxing and racing (cars, motorcycles, etc). People die b/c of injuries suffered while doing all three of these things.

ps - I know about Ray Chapman. Freak thing and no helmets!

bucksfan2
03-22-2012, 09:24 AM
Yep. Really weird to think about, I'd hate to lose football, but I'm not sure it can really be made safe enough.

I don't think we will lose football in my lifetime. I think what Goddell has to do is make the game as safe as possible. Its ironic to listen to guys on the radio who have realized that you can make it doing other things in life, still talk about the desire to run through a brick wall to play football again. The NFL is just doing their best to make the game as safe as possible.

Redsfaithful
03-22-2012, 09:48 AM
I didn't think there was any real concern over it either, and I think it will always exist in some form, but if insurance companies stop insuring it'll become a secondary sport.

The NFL will always be able to buy insurance, it's high schools and colleges that are going to get priced out. It'll only take a couple of successful class action lawsuits I think.

OldRightHander
03-22-2012, 09:53 AM
I read a piece last year and now I can't find it. It mentioned the injury rates in rugby and football. There aren't nearly the numbers of serious injuries in rugby because of the lack of pads. It seems that the players know they're not protected so they tackle accordingly while all the padding gives football players a false sense of security and they hit much harder because of that. I'll try to find the article.

OldRightHander
03-22-2012, 09:59 AM
Not the article I was thinking about, but still interesting.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2027053,00.html

bucksfan2
03-22-2012, 10:20 AM
I read a piece last year and now I can't find it. It mentioned the injury rates in rugby and football. There aren't nearly the numbers of serious injuries in rugby because of the lack of pads. It seems that the players know they're not protected so they tackle accordingly while all the padding gives football players a false sense of security and they hit much harder because of that. I'll try to find the article.

There was an article in the WSJ a couple of years ago about someone advocating the football be played without helmets to crack down on vicious hits.

Puffy
03-22-2012, 12:10 PM
Would anybody really be surprised to find out such a program exists on almost every NFL team? though maybe not as brazen as the Saints did it.

I would be shocked. Here is the thing no one in this thread is mentioning. The NFL found out about these bounties in 2009. They told teams we know you are doing this, stop it now. Other teams did. The Saints did not. They continued the bounty program and then lied to cover it up.

That is why bounty penalty is so harsh and that is why no one else will be punished. We know Gregg Williams ran a similar system while in Washington. They received no penalty - - because when NFL said, in 09, that it better have stopped they made sure it stopped. Simple.

I have no sympathy for the Saints. I actually rooted for them when I lived in N'Awlins and after Katrina (as long as they did not interfere with my G-Men!). But the arrogance of Payton, Loomis and Williams is and was just astounding. So they lost any sympathy I might be able to muster.

Sea Ray
03-22-2012, 12:27 PM
I would be shocked. Here is the thing no one in this thread is mentioning. The NFL found out about these bounties in 2009. They told teams we know you are doing this, stop it now. Other teams did. The Saints did not. They continued the bounty program and then lied to cover it up.

That is why bounty penalty is so harsh and that is why no one else will be punished. We know Gregg Williams ran a similar system while in Washington. They received no penalty - - because when NFL said, in 09, that it better have stopped they made sure it stopped. Simple.

I have no sympathy for the Saints. I actually rooted for them when I lived in N'Awlins and after Katrina (as long as they did not interfere with my G-Men!). But the arrogance of Payton, Loomis and Williams is and was just astounding. So they lost any sympathy I might be able to muster.

You got it and I'm sure the commissioner will explain all that to Mr Brees when he gets that explanation he asked for. The only thing I take issue with is that no one in the thread mentioned it


Details are sketchy but from what I've heard one of the reasons Payton and Williams were hit so hard was because they lied about it initially. The NFL doesn't take too kindly to that

Thanks for filling in some of those details:thumbup:

Puffy
03-22-2012, 01:54 PM
I wasn't talking about the lying part, Sea Ray - I know you and others have mentioned that. I was referring to the NFL telling teams we know this is going on, stop now part. That's why it took over two years for the crap to hit fan. The lying/cover up was HUGE but what others are missing is NFL gave teams a heads up a couple of years ago.

traderumor
03-24-2012, 09:03 AM
I expect this to be the next sequel for "The Hunger Games"==futuristic NFL style :)

WVRed
03-28-2012, 10:36 AM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Parcells taking over in New Orleans in Payton's absence.

Talk about giving Goodell the finger if that happens, and I don't think Goodell is somebody you want mad at you.

cumberlandreds
03-28-2012, 11:04 AM
What this is amounting to is a year of vacation for Payton. I read that he was going to be a TV analyst next fall on one of the networks. How crazy is that? He should be banished completely from the NFL and any TV or radio work without being paid for the year. Anything less and then its no punishment at all IMO.

Sea Ray
03-28-2012, 11:11 AM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Parcells taking over in New Orleans in Payton's absence.

Talk about giving Goodell the finger if that happens, and I don't think Goodell is somebody you want mad at you.

I don't see why that'd anger the commissioner. It'd help generate interest in the NFL and it'd be great for the New Orleans fans who he didn't want to punish in the first place. I think he'd be fine with it

Sea Ray
03-28-2012, 11:12 AM
What this is amounting to is a year of vacation for Payton. I read that he was going to be a TV analyst next fall on one of the networks. How crazy is that? He should be banished completely from the NFL and any TV or radio work without being paid for the year. Anything less and then its no punishment at all IMO.

I don't think Goodell can control who the networks hire

cumberlandreds
03-28-2012, 02:15 PM
I don't think Goodell can control who the networks hire

They put his product on the air. He should and I think does have say so in who they have commenting on the games.

RedFanAlways1966
03-28-2012, 02:34 PM
They put his product on the air. He should and I think does have say so in who they have commenting on the games.

I agree with you that it is a joke to have him announcing; however, the NFL loves $$$$ and the networks give a lot of that to the NFL. TV $$$$ rules the roost. And I'd almost have to believe that legally Goodell cannot not do a thing about it as Sea Ray has said. The networks should be better than that, but I forget how the real world is sometimes lol.

Newport Red
03-28-2012, 04:39 PM
They put his product on the air. He should and I think does have say so in who they have commenting on the games.

With the amount of money the networks are paying the NFL, the networks can say "bite me".

Roy Tucker
03-28-2012, 05:22 PM
If I were Sean Payton, I don't think I'd want to get in a urination match with Roger Goodell.

And if Goodell didn't want him to do TV, I believe it would behoove Payton not to. Goodell could make his NFL life miserable.

KronoRed
03-28-2012, 06:13 PM
What this is amounting to is a year of vacation for Payton. I read that he was going to be a TV analyst next fall on one of the networks. How crazy is that? He should be banished completely from the NFL and any TV or radio work without being paid for the year. Anything less and then its no punishment at all IMO.

They should make him work arena games.

WMR
03-28-2012, 06:40 PM
Payton sounded anything but contrite in the interview I heard... Much different than the defensive coordinator's mea culpa.

WVRed
03-28-2012, 08:36 PM
Payton sounded anything but contrite in the interview I heard... Much different than the defensive coordinator's mea culpa.

Why would he be contrite? Unlike Williams, who is suspended indefinitely, Payton is getting a one year ban and can make up some of the money working for CBS, Fox, NBC, or ESPN for one season. If anything, its a one year vacation with a HOF mentor likely holding down the fort for one season.


I don't see why that'd anger the commissioner. It'd help generate interest in the NFL and it'd be great for the New Orleans fans who he didn't want to punish in the first place. I think he'd be fine with it

Apply the same scenario to USC in football. You have a coach (Pete Carroll) who disobeyed the rules but in this case jumped ship before any penalties came down. USC hired another shady coach in Lane Kiffin who was an assistant for said head coach.

Granted, Parcells is a HOF head coach who is respected throughout NFL circles and Lane Kiffin is riding the coattails of his father, but its the fact that its supposed to be a punishment and its backfiring considerably.

The Saints are getting a better coach as a one year stopgap, highly unlikely to lose any continuity between Parcells and Payton.

Payton gets a year off and can work for a network until his suspension is up.

Tell me how the whole thing isn't a slap in the face to the Commissioner?

dougdirt
03-28-2012, 10:47 PM
They put his product on the air. He should and I think does have say so in who they have commenting on the games.

Unless it is in the contracts signed by the league, then I doubt they have any ability to say yes or no to anyone.

cumberlandreds
03-29-2012, 09:15 AM
Unless it is in the contracts signed by the league, then I doubt they have any ability to say yes or no to anyone.

I know on the discalimer for MLB games its mentioned that the announcers have been approved by MLB. Maybe the NFL is different. I would think whoever hires him for TV work may get less of a TV deal the next time around. They may decide to divvy up the $$$ more to another network. We'll see. I do know it makes the NFL and Goodell look really bad if he's on the air commenting on games.

Sea Ray
03-29-2012, 11:29 AM
They put his product on the air. He should and I think does have say so in who they have commenting on the games.

My guess is the networks would say "we're paying a billion dollars to broadcast these games; we'll hire who we want"

Sea Ray
03-29-2012, 11:34 AM
Granted, Parcells is a HOF head coach who is respected throughout NFL circles and Lane Kiffin is riding the coattails of his father, but its the fact that its supposed to be a punishment and its backfiring considerably.

The Saints are getting a better coach as a one year stopgap, highly unlikely to lose any continuity between Parcells and Payton.

Payton gets a year off and can work for a network until his suspension is up.

Tell me how the whole thing isn't a slap in the face to the Commissioner?

Parcells would be no more than a figurehead. Payton was the offensive play caller. This is a huge disruption to the team. No way Payton makes $5.8mill in any other line of work from April 1 through the Super Bowl. If the Saints can hire Parcells more power to them

wolfboy
04-05-2012, 12:11 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7778005/gregg-williams-told-new-orleans-saints-hurt-san-francisco-49ers-speech

Gregg Williams isn't looking so good right now.

improbus
04-05-2012, 12:57 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7778005/gregg-williams-told-new-orleans-saints-hurt-san-francisco-49ers-speech

Gregg Williams isn't looking so good right now.

I heard most of the tape. Something tells me that Williams wasn't the only person to make a similar speech.

Isn't that speech the very essence of football?

VR
04-05-2012, 01:23 PM
I heard most of the tape. Something tells me that Williams wasn't the only person to make a similar speech.

Isn't that speech the very essence of football?

Not at all.

What a absolute joke this idiot is. Should be banned from ever being allowed to coach any level of football again.

The Operator
04-05-2012, 03:29 PM
I think we are about to witness a life-time ban from the NFL. Frankly I think Payton should be right there with him, but he'll probably slither his way out of the worst of it.

ervinsm84
04-05-2012, 04:25 PM
I figured this whole thing was probably overblown a bit by the NFL, but that it was still a suspension and punishment that needed to happen. After listening to that audio tape, any coach who was in the room when that speech was made should not ever coach again.

That is beyond ridiculous to specifically target hitting guys in the head, and even more so guys who have had concussions in the past. Talking about going after an ACL or vernon davis ankles in the pile has no place in the game whatsoever.

There is a distinct difference between telling your guys to go knock the **** out of someone and hit em as hard as you can (both fine) and the garbage that Williams was spewing.

Roy Tucker
04-05-2012, 05:30 PM
I heard most of the tape. Something tells me that Williams wasn't the only person to make a similar speech.

Isn't that speech the very essence of football?

I guess I'm just jaded but that stuff really didn't surprise me (Jack Tatum and "North Dallas Forty" and snot bubbles and all that). I know the NFL is trying to get away fron that kind of stuff and I think that's a good idea, but the fact that those kinds of raw speeches happen doesn't surprise me.

Todd Gack
04-05-2012, 07:16 PM
I look forward to the NFL outlawing the chop block soon.

improbus
04-05-2012, 08:11 PM
The most interesting thing about the tape is the timing. Is it a coincidence that the tape came out the same day as Payton's appeal? I don't think so. Goodell is very smart and he doesn't want this appeal to be successful. So, what better way to do that than to encourage the release of this tape?

texasdave
04-23-2012, 05:18 PM
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7846290/new-orleans-saints-mickey-loomis-eavesdrop-opposing-coaches-home-games


The U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Louisiana was told Friday that New Orleans Saints general manager Mickey Loomis had an electronic device in his Superdome suite that had been secretly re-wired to enable him to eavesdrop on visiting coaching staffs for nearly three NFL seasons, "Outside the Lines" has learned.

Saints deny. Stay tuned.

Sea Ray
04-23-2012, 06:05 PM
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7846290/new-orleans-saints-mickey-loomis-eavesdrop-opposing-coaches-home-games



Saints deny. Stay tuned.

Shades of Al Davis and yes, Bill Belichick

WVRed
04-23-2012, 06:06 PM
Shades of Al Davis and yes, Bill Belichick

Has a Super Bowl season ever been vacated from the record books in the NFL?

This could be the first.

improbus
05-25-2012, 11:38 PM
I'm not sure why this occurred to me when it did, but this Payton suspension could be an interesting experiment. Payton is considered one of the "geniuses" of the NFL. But, what happens if the Saints and their offense don't miss a beat? Would we look at the "mythology" of head coaches differently? I will be very interested in how this turns out.

Ohayou
09-07-2012, 05:02 PM
Suspensions for four players connected to the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal have been overturned by a three-man arbitration panel, sources tell ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

The ruling should clear Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith, Scott Fujita and Anthony Hargrove to start the season.

"Victory is mine!!!! -stewie griffin," Vilma tweeted Friday afternoon.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8349080/sources-suspensions-jonathan-vilma-smith-scott-fujita-anthony-hargrove-overturned-arbitration-panel

Tom Servo
09-07-2012, 05:03 PM
Lame.

WMR
09-07-2012, 05:05 PM
It is lame, but I must admit getting a bit of pleasure seeing Fuhrer Goodell with egg on his face.

Chip R
12-11-2012, 03:15 PM
The suspensions have been overturned by Tagliabue.

http://www.bestneworleanshomes.com/paul-tagliabue-has-overturned-the-suspensions.html