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View Full Version : Phillips for Hammels



jhu1321
03-21-2012, 03:40 PM
Not sure what to think? Is either side confirming talks?

http://bit.ly/GKvtN7

bmwreds31
03-21-2012, 03:50 PM
No-----No ------------And another no.

Imagine how bad we would struggle on offense. I would shoot myself watching this team hit the ball if you take phillips out of the line-up and replace him Janish or some crap.

krm1580
03-21-2012, 04:01 PM
Not sure what to think? Is either side confirming talks?

http://bit.ly/GKvtN7

I live in the Philly area and there has been absolutely no mention of it, not even in message boards.

I think it is just some wild speculation that someone threw out there that seems to have some semblance of validity due to the injuries the Phillies have with Howard and Utley and the fact that Hammels and Phillips are both free agents after this year will similar contract numbers.

dubc47834
03-21-2012, 04:05 PM
I don't think this is a good idea either. Without BP I don't know how good the offense would be, plus Hamels only has a year left on his contract. If he had more, I would say it would be worth the risk. Or if we had a decent backup that was proven. Plus, I just really like BP as a ballplayer, I know my opinion doesn't count for much, but I would like to see him locked up long term. He keeps the clubhouse loose and really seems to like it here.

The DARK
03-21-2012, 04:22 PM
BS rumor. Not that I wouldn't love Cole, but we'd be trading our only two real options at 2nd base for a pitcher for a rotation that's already pretty much set. Having Valdez in that trade is very weird.

jhu1321
03-21-2012, 04:30 PM
BS rumor. Not that I wouldn't love Cole, but we'd be trading our only two real options at 2nd base for a pitcher for a rotation that's already pretty much set. Having Valdez in that trade is very weird.

Yeah, that seems to be the consensus, and I'm inclined to agree but it sure is fun to speculate! :beer me:


Wondering ,if by chance they did make the deal, if that would create a situation where we would deal Bailey for a second baseman?

Krawhitham
03-21-2012, 08:15 PM
Not sure what to think? Is either side confirming talks?

http://bit.ly/GKvtN7

Please god yes

This team goes to WS with Hammels

texasdave
03-21-2012, 08:38 PM
I will give credit where credit is due. When Jocketty targets someone, it is generally a quality ballplayer.

jmac
03-21-2012, 10:03 PM
Thats something to think of, Having a pitcher like Cueto who would be your number 1 and then pick up 2 in offseason that pushes Cueto to number 3....now that would be a staff ! :thumbup:

jmac
03-21-2012, 10:04 PM
I will give credit where credit is due. When Jocketty targets someone, it is generally a quality ballplayer.
Has WJ made any comment on this as he is normally straight forward on his answers and doesnt beat around bush ?

tedies
03-22-2012, 02:45 AM
:laugh: why would they trade for someone they already let go in Valdez... this is dumb

R_Webb18
03-22-2012, 03:17 AM
like if we have no shot at resigning bp yea but if we dont then no.

[deleted]
03-22-2012, 03:33 AM
Just a pipedream. An amazing, oh-my-gawd pipedream, but nonetheless.

And I seriously question how some people can consider themselves Reds fans and pass on this deal.

R_Webb18
03-22-2012, 03:41 AM
;2547782']Just a pipedream. An amazing, oh-my-gawd pipedream, but nonetheless.

And I seriously question how some people can consider themselves Reds fans and pass on this deal.

tbh it does not rly matter b/c id say theres like no chance this happens

mroby85
03-22-2012, 10:56 AM
I would question the reliability of this article considering they didn't even spell Cole Hamels' last name correctly.

dubc47834
03-22-2012, 11:48 AM
;2547782']Just a pipedream. An amazing, oh-my-gawd pipedream, but nonetheless.

And I seriously question how some people can consider themselves Reds fans and pass on this deal.

UMMM...I'm a Reds fan, and as of right now, I would probly pass on this deal. Our offense would take a huge hit. The defense takes a huge hit. I understand there are 2 sides to this deal. Those who want the trade, and those who don't. I'm not totally against it, if we have a better option at 2nd.

Assembly Hall
03-22-2012, 12:09 PM
I like the trade from the Red's view. We get a great arm. The offense would take a hit but with the rotation that we would have, we wouldnt have to score as much. Throw a young guy into the fire at second, and leave it up to Joey, Jay, Scotty, and Drew to pick up the slack.

But that being said, to me it makes no sense on the Philly end. Phillips aint gonna make up for Howard and Utley not being in the line-up. Seems to me I would keep Cole and take my chances on pitching keeping me in the race until my studs got healthy.

texasdave
03-22-2012, 12:26 PM
Also from Sheldon (via Twitter), he shoots down internet rumors linking the Reds and Phillies in a Brandon Phillips-for-Cole Hamels deal. No surprise that rumor is "false," it doesn't make sense for either team.


Mark Sheldon is right and wrong. This was probably just a rumor all along. But if he thinks this deal makes no sense for the Reds, he needs to start covering another team.

bmwreds31
03-22-2012, 12:45 PM
Mark Sheldon is right and wrong. This was probably just a rumor all along. But if he thinks this deal makes no sense for the Reds, he needs to start covering another team.

ummm mark sheldon is right in his statement.


If this is THE YEAR. Our push. We need BP.

[deleted]
03-22-2012, 02:14 PM
Personally I don't see how anyone could ever not want to accept this trade regardless, but when you take into account the fact that the Reds are one of the best offensive and defensive teams in the league with a severe lack of starting pitching, it starts to become silly not to. That's dealing from strength for a weakness... and Cole Hamels is one of the best pitchers in baseball, guaranteed to get a 100+ million deal next offseason. The offense takes a hit of course, but

2nd ranked offense + 9-15th ranked rotation

is not as valuable as

5-6th ranked offense + 2-3rd ranked rotation

swaisuc
03-22-2012, 02:20 PM
;2547891']Personally I don't see how anyone could ever not want to accept this trade regardless, but when you take into account the fact that the Reds are one of the best offensive and defensive teams in the league with a severe lack of starting pitching, it starts to become silly not to. That's dealing from strength for a weakness... and Cole Hamels is one of the best pitchers in baseball, guaranteed to get a 100+ million deal next offseason. The offense takes a hit of course, but

2nd ranked offense + 9-15th ranked rotation

is not as valuable as

5-6th ranked offense + 2-3rd ranked rotation

As long as we play in GABP the stats will show that hitting is going great and pitching is a problem. No trade is going to change that.

brm7675
03-22-2012, 02:20 PM
You are basically trading end of contract players for each other. Neither are going to be playing for the teams they are with this season next, so then you have to ask does the addition of what Hammels would bring outweight the offense/defense Phillips brings to the team. As we have seen pitching is the key...

R_Webb18
03-22-2012, 02:22 PM
am i the only 1 that thinks theres a chance we see brandon p here next yr?

Pony Boy
03-22-2012, 03:09 PM
No-----No ------------And another no.

Imagine how bad we would struggle on offense. I would shoot myself watching this team hit the ball if you take phillips out of the line-up and replace him Janish or some crap.

huh? I love Phillips, but Hamels is a much more valuable player.

Also, I doubt we would replace him with Janish.

[deleted]
03-22-2012, 04:15 PM
As long as we play in GABP the stats will show that hitting is going great and pitching is a problem. No trade is going to change that.

Nah, as long as the pieces are right the numbers will show it. Volquez, Arroyo, and co. weren't awful last year because of GABP; it didn't help, but they were bad because they were bad. Philadelphia plays in a hitter's park, but they're far and away the best pitching squad in baseball (in large part because of Mr. Hamels).

And even if the stats show hitting to be great and pitching bad because of GABP... does that mean we make no effort to improve our staff? That because our ballpark favors offense, any attempt to acquire better pitching is a lost cause? Seriously?

swaisuc
03-23-2012, 08:57 AM
;2547932']Nah, as long as the pieces are right the numbers will show it. Volquez, Arroyo, and co. weren't awful last year because of GABP; it didn't help, but they were bad because they were bad. Philadelphia plays in a hitter's park, but they're far and away the best pitching squad in baseball (in large part because of Mr. Hamels).

And even if the stats show hitting to be great and pitching bad because of GABP... does that mean we make no effort to improve our staff? That because our ballpark favors offense, any attempt to acquire better pitching is a lost cause? Seriously?

I never said anything like that. Read the post I responded to. I think the implication is pretty clear. They think we have the #2 offense and our pitching is the problem so we should trade offense for pitching. I don't agree. Does that mean we shouldn't try to acquire better pitching? Of course not. In my mind, we're an average pitching staff in a bandbox and a slightly above average offense with inflated numbers. I don't agree with the notion that we have an unbalanced team and need to trade offense for pitching, simple as that.

I'll give you Philly though. If we could trade for Halliday, Lee, and Hamels I will change my tune about it being impossible here.

jwmann2
03-24-2012, 03:54 PM
Well, like it or not, the Phillips deal is not going to get done. He will be with another team next season, just like Pujols knew he would be. Best thing about this is Phillips is going to go all out this season offensively to try and get other teams interested in a big four or five year deal.

[deleted]
03-24-2012, 06:16 PM
I never said anything like that. Read the post I responded to. I think the implication is pretty clear. They think we have the #2 offense and our pitching is the problem so we should trade offense for pitching. I don't agree. Does that mean we shouldn't try to acquire better pitching? Of course not. In my mind, we're an average pitching staff in a bandbox and a slightly above average offense with inflated numbers. I don't agree with the notion that we have an unbalanced team and need to trade offense for pitching, simple as that.

I'll give you Philly though. If we could trade for Halliday, Lee, and Hamels I will change my tune about it being impossible here.

No, I read it. You said that as long as the Reds play in GABP, their team pitching statistics will be lousy, no matter what trades are made. Implying that no matter who we acquire, we'll still be a substandard pitching team (from which I drew the tongue-in-cheek conclusion that if doesn't matter who we get, why try?). I vehemently disagree with that. I'm kinda surprised that people still don't realize starting pitching is what wins games. The number one rule for building a team to reach the postseason: you can NEVER have enough good starting pitching. Ever.

Last season the Reds were an elite offensive team with a lousy starting staff. They finished under .500, and 17 games out of first. The San Fransisco Giants were an elite pitching team with an abysmal offense, the worst in the league. They finished 10 games over .500 (in a better division, too). The Rays 2011 team was able to make the playoffs out of the AL East solely on SP talent and depth - they scored less runs than everyone else in their division.

Hell, if money wasn't a concern and I knew I could have either guy for the next 6 years, I'd probably trade Votto for Hamels. Potential health risks would be the only thing keeping me from it.

DGullett35
03-24-2012, 06:27 PM
I dont think I would do this deal just for the fact that BP means alot to this lineup. Currently we have noone that can consistently hit leadoff, and hes great in the clubhouse. I would love to have Cole but I just dont see this offense producing much THIS YEAR w/o BP. Hes def. a key piece to the puzzle

The leadoff hitter/situation I think needs to be handled next offseason or mabey this year sometime. I wish we could have signed Coco Crisp to be honest with you

[deleted]
03-24-2012, 06:39 PM
Crisp gets on base at the same rate as Stubbs and signed for 7 million a year. I'd STILL be smashing my face into a wall if we had made that deal.

TeamSelig
03-24-2012, 07:52 PM
Hamels/Cueto/Latos/Leake/Bailey is absolutely filthy. Holy crap. I can't believe anyone would whine about our offense?

What if Chapman tears it up as a Starter? We become unstoppable. Offense can be worked out. We can rely on small ball. With that pitching, I don't see anyone beating us in a series.

Ohayou
03-24-2012, 09:16 PM
Why are people still talking about this?

BEETTLEBUG
03-25-2012, 06:59 AM
Please this is true it is not going to happen so we need to stop talking about it, just like Bailey to pen not going to happen, so let us stop talking about.