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View Full Version : Reds should DFA Bailey



ShaySongz
03-24-2012, 10:32 PM
Bailey is the player the Padres presumed Latos to be. He gets unraveled, mentally fatigue, frustrated and loses his cool under pressure. He is a bust wether you like to believe it or not. The only reason he's not cut because he's outta options! You can't run your franchise holding onto players that underachieve because if lack of options, waiting on potential! Cut bait Walt! Go all in with chapman

RedsfaninMT
03-25-2012, 10:21 AM
You also can't run your franchise based off Spring Training stats either. I have also been frustrated with Bailey, but he posted decent numbers overall last year. Chapman needs some time in Louisville to work on his 3rd pitch - which he evidently has not thrown this Spring.

I think the Reds have to give Bailey a few starts to see what he can do. But (!) I am no pitching expert. I am sure that Price, Walt and Dusty can tell who looks good and who doesn't and will act accordingly.

DaytonFlyer
03-25-2012, 01:25 PM
I would be ok with them packaging Bailey and Juan Francisco for something.... ANYTHING.

jhiller21
03-26-2012, 01:21 AM
Bailey hasn't turned out to be the 98 mph fireballer we all thought he would be, but his splitter and changeup are still plus pitches, and he still has a pretty sharp curve.

Give the guy 180-200 innings in 2012, and I think he'll put up a 3.80 ERA, easy.

The DARK
03-26-2012, 01:36 AM
Bailey stuggles every spring training, but that never seems to carry over into the regular season. Right now is the time for him to work on his mechanics, regardless of actual performance, so I wouldn't be judgmental about him now. Even if he were legitimately struggling, he's not worth DFAing in favor of anyone else, especially when he's got trade value.

ShaySongz
03-26-2012, 08:35 AM
working on mechanics is fine when your not competing for a rotation spot with another pitcher. I hope trade him for a closer. He can't work out of the bullpen, doesn't warm up quick enough. He doesn't have it between the ears,I guess he use to over powering hitters..pitching is more mental than physical attributes

dubc47834
03-26-2012, 09:05 AM
LOL...if you don't like Bailey that is fine. But why would we DFA a guy with his ability, we can get something for him. If he is DFA'ed we lose that money. I really think this will be his coming out year, I think he gets us double digit wins. The expectations that were put on this guy were unattainable. Plus the guy was miss handled....badly. Like Herm Edwards say...."Think before you hit send!!!!"

Who Dey Time
03-26-2012, 10:44 AM
Bailey is the player the Padres presumed Latos to be. He gets unraveled, mentally fatigue, frustrated and loses his cool under pressure. He is a bust wether you like to believe it or not. The only reason he's not cut because he's outta options! You can't run your franchise holding onto players that underachieve because if lack of options, waiting on potential! Cut bait Walt! Go all in with chapman

While I think there is merit in questioning whether or not Bailey should be in the rotation, there is zero merit in the idea that he should be DFA'd. If you don't think he is going to be a productive starting pitcher then you should look to deal. IMO, there would be a market for a 25-year old starting pitcher whom, at times, has looked like he is very capable of being a very good pitcher. Someone would be willing to take that on....why not try to get something for him.

Having said that, however, my guess is that he starting 2012 in the Reds rotation and I have no issue with that.

ShaySongz
03-26-2012, 11:31 AM
What you fail to realize, what makes you think another team will take this garbage pitcher and give you crown jewels in return?! Other teams have scouts too. What would you expect back for a pitcher that can't crack the starting rotation on a third place ball club..? As of last year. Bailey is a bum, doesn't fit well to be pitching in GABP. When the cardinals and brewers light him up..come back to this post and give me my credit:)

ShaySongz
03-26-2012, 11:34 AM
Besides if you DFA and another team claims him that salary is off your hands

ShaySongz
03-26-2012, 11:47 AM
I think Volquez has more upside than Bailey minus the control problems. Bailey went from number one prospect to number five starter!! Times up Cut Bait.

brm7675
03-26-2012, 07:57 PM
Weather we like it or not...Homer is here for the season...

Kevin1476
03-26-2012, 08:13 PM
I for one am not ready to give up on him, with his weight gain/muscle ( discussed in a earlier topic) I think he will work out the kinks and be one of our better pitchers! I still remember Pujols remarks about Bailey. If he thinks Bailey will be a good pitcher once he puts all his stuff together. I believe it as well. This is where you have to hope Price earns his money and makes Bailey the pitcher he is capable of being.

DGullett35
03-26-2012, 10:58 PM
Im def. not giving up on him. I think he can be a key to the rotation if he can stay healthy. It would be crazy to trade a young hard throwing SP.

Old NDN
03-27-2012, 09:20 AM
What you fail to realize, what makes you think another team will take this garbage pitcher and give you crown jewels in return?! Other teams have scouts too. What would you expect back for a pitcher that can't crack the starting rotation on a third place ball club..? As of last year. Bailey is a bum, doesn't fit well to be pitching in GABP. When the cardinals and brewers light him up..come back to this post and give me my credit:)

Well, in post #6, you said trade him for a closer. This post says nobody will give you anything valuable in return. Which is it? Like most on here, I too, have about had enough of Bailey. He's constantly "working on mechanics" or "getting his work in". The time-worn excuse of him being so young has expired. At what point does "potential" get trumped by results? He definitely hasn't produced the results that were expected. I honestly don't know what the answer is. And with Bailey as well as Chapman, I don't think the Reds do either.

Captain13
03-27-2012, 10:57 AM
Besides if you DFA and another team claims him that salary is off your hands

I believe the other team is only on the hook for the major league minimum, and you pay rest, or is that only if nobody claims him and then he signs later?

herbdizzle
03-27-2012, 10:35 PM
Over the course of a full season the Reds will need to use at least 6 or 7 starters in their regular rotation due to injuries or ineffectiveness. While I'm not a huge Bailey fan I don't trade or release him right now without a better alternative coming into the starter pool. Latos, Cueto, Leake, Arroyo, Bailey, & Chapman make a solid starter pool with Lecure as my 7th guy if disaster strikes. I keep Bailey on the roster as a long man and give Chapman a rotation spot. If anything the demotion should drive Bailey to motivate himself to pitch better.

dubc47834
03-28-2012, 09:34 AM
What you fail to realize, what makes you think another team will take this garbage pitcher and give you crown jewels in return?! Other teams have scouts too. What would you expect back for a pitcher that can't crack the starting rotation on a third place ball club..? As of last year. Bailey is a bum, doesn't fit well to be pitching in GABP. When the cardinals and brewers light him up..come back to this post and give me my credit:)

I don't think we would get much in return for him. I think we would get about what we would be giving...a talented player who hasn't lived up to potential thus it would be time for him to move on. Like I said earlier tho, I think he has a good year. If not package him in a deal and lets see what we can get back.

kfm
03-28-2012, 12:15 PM
I don't get why you would dfa a guy in Bailey's situation and the Red's situation. Keep in mind the reds no longer have Wood, Volquez, or Maloney. Lecure looks to be just a reliever. When was the last time the reds made it through an entire season with five pitchers. Right now the Reds have six guys for five spots. How much faith do you have in any of those guys to not miss any starts as a result of either injury or ineffectiveness? The reds will need all six of these guys at some point this year. We have seen flashes from Bailey and even if this is a good as he will ever be, can we not win with a fifth starter with a 4.4 era. I still like the idea of Bailey in the bullpen, somehow in the playoffs he was able to get warmed up and came in firing at 96mph. Anyway he could be part of a trade that gets you something you need much like Volquez.

brm7675
03-28-2012, 12:42 PM
I think Homer has made it quite clear he is not bullpen material thus that option is out.

kfm
03-28-2012, 12:43 PM
I think Homer has made it quite clear he is not bullpen material thus that option is out.

Except in the playoffs!

brm7675
03-28-2012, 01:14 PM
Except in the playoffs!

What...one appearance? He has said he can't pitch out of the bullpen over a season, so no reason to even consider it.

herbdizzle
03-28-2012, 03:54 PM
Homer is still better than other available in-house options (other than Chapman) for the 5th starter, long relief, or mop up duty role. With Masset's injury report today it's even more important to keep him around and let him work through his spring struggles. You don't throw away a guy with several years major league experience, even if a good portion of it he was hurt, when you don't have any viable arms to replace him that are better.

HUHUH
03-29-2012, 12:48 PM
I think Homer has made it quite clear he is not bullpen material thus that option is out.

Since when do the PLAYERS determine if/when/where they play? I suppose most of the guys sent out recently "didn't want" to go to the minors. They aren't "minors" material, so should be kept in the majors. This is ludicrous. Bailey signed a contract to play for the Reds. If that means start games, pitch in relief, or suit up in the catching gear, he better damn well do it, and give it his best effort.

texasdave
03-29-2012, 01:19 PM
Since when do the PLAYERS determine if/when/where they play? I suppose most of the guys sent out recently "didn't want" to go to the minors. They aren't "minors" material, so should be kept in the majors. This is ludicrous. Bailey signed a contract to play for the Reds. If that means start games, pitch in relief, or suit up in the catching gear, he better damn well do it, and give it his best effort.

We've come a long way from the "whatever is best for the team" line of thinking.

brm7675
03-29-2012, 03:04 PM
Since when do the PLAYERS determine if/when/where they play? I suppose most of the guys sent out recently "didn't want" to go to the minors. They aren't "minors" material, so should be kept in the majors. This is ludicrous. Bailey signed a contract to play for the Reds. If that means start games, pitch in relief, or suit up in the catching gear, he better damn well do it, and give it his best effort.

they do it all the time. If a team is playing bad who gets fired? Manager or player? Homer is a head case and has stated he isn't a bullpen type of player so go ahead and put him down there and watch how he explodes...

The Rage
03-29-2012, 05:35 PM
People forget that Bailey is taking it easy this spring training. Working more on his mechanics to make sure no repeat of 2010-11 fiasco happens. He isn't trying to blow down people in spring training.

Homer's mechanics are way more made for starting than Chapman's. Chapman's mechanics are good base, but high effort. When Homer's mechanics are sound, he is a fluid and easy 95mph fastballs. Exactly what you want in a pitcher. Chappy's, not so much.

I saw it in 2010 when Chappy was wearing out in AAA. By June, he was only throwing 93-94mph. The Reds then "rested" him in the pen before bringing him up. Dusty gets it as well. I see Chappy is overthrowing again in spring training. I just think his delivery style is built for closing, not starting. It is why the "big boys" didn't outbid the Reds in 2010 for him. They know his future.

ShaySongz
03-29-2012, 06:04 PM
People forget that Bailey is taking it easy this spring training. Working more on his mechanics to make sure no repeat of 2010-11 fiasco happens. He isn't trying to blow down people in spring training.

Homer's mechanics are way more made for starting than Chapman's. Chapman's mechanics are good base, but high effort. When Homer's mechanics are sound, he is a fluid and easy 95mph fastballs. Exactly what you want in a pitcher. Chappy's, not so much.

I saw it in 2010 when Chappy was wearing out in AAA. By June, he was only throwing 93-94mph. The Reds then "rested" him in the pen before bringing him up. Dusty gets it as well. I see Chappy is overthrowing again in spring training. I just think his delivery style is built for closing, not starting. It is why the "big boys" didn't outbid the Reds in 2010 for him. They know his future.



And those Same "Big Boys" wouldn't give you anything in return for Bailey also..Bailey doesn't deserve the time on the major league level to work on mechanics thats what the minor leagues is for. Since he has NO options you have to DFA on waivers to send him down. His contract is killing the Reds more than his potential.

brm7675
03-29-2012, 06:10 PM
People forget that Bailey is taking it easy this spring training. Working more on his mechanics to make sure no repeat of 2010-11 fiasco happens. He isn't trying to blow down people in spring training.

Homer's mechanics are way more made for starting than Chapman's. Chapman's mechanics are good base, but high effort. When Homer's mechanics are sound, he is a fluid and easy 95mph fastballs. Exactly what you want in a pitcher. Chappy's, not so much.

I saw it in 2010 when Chappy was wearing out in AAA. By June, he was only throwing 93-94mph. The Reds then "rested" him in the pen before bringing him up. Dusty gets it as well. I see Chappy is overthrowing again in spring training. I just think his delivery style is built for closing, not starting. It is why the "big boys" didn't outbid the Reds in 2010 for him. They know his future.

Dusty has NO clue on pitching anything let alone mechanics.

brm7675
03-29-2012, 06:11 PM
And those Same "Big Boys" wouldn't give you anything in return for Bailey also..Bailey doesn't deserve the time on the major league level to work on mechanics thats what the minor leagues is for. Since he has NO options you have to DFA on waivers to send him down. His contract is killing the Reds more than his potential.

What contract? His is not that big..

ShaySongz
03-29-2012, 06:47 PM
He has no options because of his contract. If he did Chapman would be the clear cut number five starter, Bailey would start in Louisville but Bailey dont!! he's handcuffing the team.

dubc47834
03-29-2012, 06:54 PM
He has no options because of his contract. If he did Chapman would be the clear cut number five starter, Bailey would start in Louisville but Bailey dont!! he's handcuffing the team.

Bailey isn't handcuffing this team, it's the Reds cuffing themselves. They were in such a rush to get him to the big leagues. Now they are paying for it.

kfm
03-29-2012, 07:51 PM
What...one appearance? He has said he can't pitch out of the bullpen over a season, so no reason to even consider it.
I don't recall this distinction you just made. I thought the issue was him getting warmed up. Sounds like the reds are considering putting him in the bullpen, you may want to let them know that is not an option, at least not during the season.

brm7675
03-29-2012, 11:32 PM
I don't recall this distinction you just made. I thought the issue was him getting warmed up. Sounds like the reds are considering putting him in the bullpen, you may want to let them know that is not an option, at least not during the season.

I think Homer himself will make it very clear...

The Rage
03-30-2012, 02:32 AM
Chapman shouldn't even be in the mix for a rotation spot. He needs some time in AAA in april to take it easy and build up stamina.

For the 1000th time SPRING TRAINING STATS DO NO MATTER!!!

Remember, all Bailey's problems in 2010-11 were mechanical issues. His leg-torso-arm tempo has been off. You could see it just about with every throw he made. His arm was slightly to quick causing him to "rush" through his delivery.

He has figured out pitching, that is for sure. But the difference between being a 92-94mph fastball with weak movement and a 94-96mph fastball with strong movement isn't alot, but it means a ton for his final stat line. He only had one game last year he was close to where we want him(Padres game). The fact is, the Reds can't put Bailey in the Pen and expect him to succeed, he doesn't need to be down in AAA like Chapman. This is his final shot with the Reds and he knows it. Which is why he has spent so much time on mechanics this spring plus building up his body over the winter.

The guy deserves his last shot. Anything else and the Reds have failed. How would you like it to watch Bailey and Pujols holding up the title?

R_Webb18
03-30-2012, 02:37 AM
ppl keep saying spring training stats don't matter but i think ur kinda right and wrong.

if your some1 like votto or cueto i could care less but when your bailey and theres some1 like chapman there to take your job it should.

brm7675
03-30-2012, 11:36 AM
The starting rotation is going to come down to "whom" is in control. If Bob and Walt get their way you will se a rotation of:

Cueto/Latos/Bronson/Leake/Chapman with Homer either traded or in the Pen

If Dusty gets his way you will see

Cueto/Latos/Bronson/Leake/Homer with chapman working out of the pen..

It's going to be interesting to see "whom" is in charge..

dubc47834
03-30-2012, 01:42 PM
The starting rotation is going to come down to "whom" is in control. If Bob and Walt get their way you will se a rotation of:

Cueto/Latos/Bronson/Leake/Chapman with Homer either traded or in the Pen

If Dusty gets his way you will see

Cueto/Latos/Bronson/Leake/Homer with chapman working out of the pen..

It's going to be interesting to see "whom" is in charge..

Interesting point there!!!! I'm still on the fence as who I would rather see as the 5th starter. One side says give Homer 1 last chance, and the other says give Chapman the job. I am leaning toward Homer, because ever since Chapman has been here I have never seen him as a starter. I have stated before that the club has put themselves in this position by rushing Homer to the big leagues. Then the team was struggling and I think that the fans wanted him up, so thats what they did to put butts in the seats. OH WELL...thats another topic!!!!

LeDoux
03-30-2012, 04:00 PM
Votto is OPSing .574 this Spring. Maybe they should DFA him to free up some cash.

The Rage
03-31-2012, 05:51 PM
Sounds like Bailey will be the 4th starter and Chapman the 5th. Dusty's foreshadowing about "paying" Bailey and Chapman wasn't just words.

Krawhitham
03-31-2012, 11:44 PM
He has no options because of his contract. If he did Chapman would be the clear cut number five starter, Bailey would start in Louisville but Bailey dont!! he's handcuffing the team.

It is a MLB rule, his contract has nothing to do with it. You only get 3 options years.

xavr1
04-01-2012, 08:56 AM
I would be ok with them packaging Bailey and Juan Francisco for something.... ANYTHING.

That is my best case scenario as well!

KySteveH
04-01-2012, 11:10 AM
I believe the other team is only on the hook for the major league minimum, and you pay rest, or is that only if nobody claims him and then he signs later?

Actually, no other team could claim him, because he would have to be placed on waivers for that the happen. The OP just wants him designated for assignment, for some reason.

IamRV
04-01-2012, 01:36 PM
Bad idea.

ShaySongz
04-02-2012, 05:55 PM
I don't like to "toot" my own horn haha but I knew this crap was going to happen with Chapman moving to the bullpen instead of starting over Bailey..The only way Bailey was going to drop out of that 5th spot is if he had an Catastrophic spring...you call that an open competition? Clearly Bailey is handcuffing the team and will get killed Aug 9th against the Cards..save your money Reds will falter this year because of bad decision making not talent.

Todd Gack
04-02-2012, 05:57 PM
I don't like to "toot" my own horn haha but I knew this crap was going to happen with Chapman moving to the bullpen instead of starting over Bailey..The only way Bailey was going to drop out of that 5th spot is if he had an Catastrophic spring...you call that an open competition? Clearly Bailey is handcuffing the team and will get killed Aug 9th against the Cards..save your money Reds will falter this year because of bad decision making not talent.

Bailey was pretty solid last year.

brm7675
04-02-2012, 06:08 PM
Bailey was pretty solid last year.

Huh? What do you consider pretty solid? To me he was average at best and poor in some outings...

Todd Gack
04-02-2012, 06:11 PM
Huh? What do you consider pretty solid? To me he was average at best and poor in some outings...

He started off pretty well, had the injury, struggled for a month after he came back and had a respectable August/September. Certainly nothing GREAT, but more reliable than anyone not named Cueto last year.

ShaySongz
04-09-2012, 07:21 PM
why is Homer on this team again??? Please remind me

code
04-09-2012, 07:22 PM
how many years now have I been saying Please get rid of Bailey ASAP? He will never get better.

The Rage
04-09-2012, 07:30 PM
Bailey wasn't loose at all. Nothing more or less. The real amazing thing was, how could Furcal and Beltran not hit a guy that was tight?

Also, 2 of those "hrs" were GAB types. Really impressed by his fluid delivery, bodes well down the line.

ShaySongz
04-09-2012, 07:35 PM
Bailey is terrible bottom line, if the Reds serious about winning he will never make another start this year and capitalize on Chapman pitching well..if they miss out on the playoffs by one game.. a game like this, from him will haunt us

Falcon7
04-09-2012, 07:52 PM
Homer, are u really that dumb?

malcontent
04-09-2012, 10:03 PM
I'd rather see Francis than Bailey again.

I think we can safely place the "bust" label on his bobble-head now.

dubc47834
04-09-2012, 10:07 PM
Lol....you guys are funny, Homer had a horrible 1st inning, I get it, geeze. The guy manned up and pitched a helluva game afterwards. If we got rid of some of the posters on here after a bad 1st post.....well, most of us woulda been gone a while ago. Give Bailey a month fellas!!!