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View Full Version : Braves Acquire Juan Francisco from the Reds for RHP J.J. Hoover



RedsFan_26
04-01-2012, 01:05 PM
Not too worried about this trade, there was nothing else to do with willy mo francisco and Fraizer was clearly having the better spring.

Hoover pitched in AAA last year as a 23 year old and owns a minor league career 3.14 ERA in 4 seasons


What are your thoughts

TuneSquad
04-01-2012, 01:08 PM
I liked francisco, but his antics got old. If anyone has any info on this Hoover kid, please post

TuneSquad
04-01-2012, 01:13 PM
Did a little digging of my own on JJ Hoover...
He was rated as Atlanta's 13 best prospect by MLB.com and they had this to say about him...
"While Hoover has had some success as both a starter and a reliever, he really took off in 2011 with a move to the bullpen. Between Double-A and Triple-A, he compiled a 0.79 ERA with 47 strikeouts and just 17 hits allowed in 24 innings of relief. His experience as a starter makes him a better pitcher, and he showed more than enough fastball and slider to compete in a big league bullpen soon."

I like that reliever stat they had in there, and their ETA of him making it to the bigs is this year!

NeilHamburger
04-01-2012, 01:23 PM
Todd Frazier must be moon-walking through the clubhouse right about now.

Assembly Hall
04-01-2012, 01:36 PM
Hmmmmmmmm......dont know what to make of it. I figured Juan was added insurance at third and first.

nmculbreth
04-01-2012, 01:38 PM
Looks like a great deal for the Reds.

I've always been skeptical about Francisco's ability to hit at the ML level so being able to flip him for a near MLB-ready pitching prospect seems like a great return. At the very least Hoover should be able to help in the pen and has the potential to be a serviceable back-end starter, in my mind that kind of player is far more valuable than a backup-IF.

The DARK
04-01-2012, 01:38 PM
Ranked as number 7 on one prospect list I saw, 13 and 17 on others. That's better than it sounds, since the Braves pitching depth is very impressive. Throws a low to mid 90's fastball that he mixes up with an improving slider and an average curveball and changeup. For a long time, he was considered one of the most average prospects around, but his arsenal seems to be steadily improving. His strength seems to be in his command. Started up until last year, where he had 14 starts and 29 relief appearances. He's gotten very good results throughout his career, but isn't seen by scouts as having enough stuff for those results to last in the majors. He's likely to become either a steady BOR starter or an above-average bullpen arm.

He's reporting to AAA Louisville, but I imagine that he'll immediately become our top bullpen option if anybody goes down.

RedsfaninMT
04-01-2012, 01:41 PM
Hoover is a little short at 6' 3". Seems like he ought to be 6' 5" at least to make the Reds current height targets.

wvreds
04-01-2012, 01:42 PM
I like the deal... But we now have no power lefty off the bench... IS something else in the works, or will Willie Harris make the roster not has a power hitter but a lefty bat off the bench??

The DARK
04-01-2012, 01:49 PM
I like the deal... But we now have no power lefty off the bench... IS something else in the works, or will Willie Harris make the roster not has a power hitter but a lefty bat off then bench??

You have a solid point. Votto and Bruce become our only lefties likely to make the opening day roster. One wonders if Jocketty doesn't have something else up his sleeve.

RedsfaninMT
04-01-2012, 01:50 PM
Sorry for the sarcasm in the previous posting. I will never, ever understand how an unproven player can show up to camp without having worked on an injury and in bad shape. He blew potential millions with his laziness. Give me somebody like Phipps who came to camp eager and in shape, versus JF.

I do worry about LH power being non existent on the bench, but I am glad to see Frazier still on the club.

Stray
04-01-2012, 01:59 PM
It tells me that our FO was tired of Francisco. Weight and attitude problems get old after a while.

Good move imo.

tedies
04-01-2012, 02:04 PM
I like the deal... But we now have no power lefty off the bench... IS something else in the works, or will Willie Harris make the roster not has a power hitter but a lefty bat off the bench??

Francisco is a horrible pinch hitter so I'm not worried about that... honestly I like JF a couple years ago but I am one of the people who think he can not hit major league pitching with any consistency. We do need Rolen to be healthy a lot more now

Pete4prez
04-01-2012, 02:24 PM
I am O.K. with this, we have Frazier waiting in the wings at third and Francisco never really convinced me that he was the solution. If we can pick up a young arm with potential, for someone who for in all likely hood is not going to be a part of the equation, then I say do it.

Ohayou
04-01-2012, 02:26 PM
Who, outside of the most insane among us, prefers Francisco over Frazier anyways?

tedies
04-01-2012, 02:26 PM
Another thought, this trade probably wouldn't have happened if Chipper wasn't hurt... If JF puts it together somehow, this will be a nice trade for the Braves

IamRV
04-01-2012, 02:36 PM
Great move by the Reds. Now just insert Chapman into the rotation, sign Francis to the 25 man and put him in the bully.

herbdizzle
04-01-2012, 02:56 PM
I think it was a fair return for Francisco. Hoover grades out to somewhat comparable to an Ondrusek-Lecure type pitcher talent wise. He has 4 pitches he uses regularly and does not have any significant injury history. It really soured me on Juan when he showed up for camp out of shape and slow when a roster spot was all but guaranteed for him if he showed up even reasonably motivated and performing. This move reinforces Walt's recent track record of not putting up with head cases or misfits for Dusty to overuse.

nux fan
04-01-2012, 02:58 PM
I do its called potential and power

Mutaman
04-01-2012, 03:20 PM
Who, outside of the most insane among us, prefers Francisco over Frazier anyways?

Anyone who believes in righty/lefty percentages. This team hit .250 against right handed pitching left year. They made mediocre right handers look like HOFers. Walt has done nothing to address this problem and now has tossed away the last decent hope for finding a left handed hitter on the roster.

I continue to be amazed that all the stat freaks here continue to ignor the righty lefty situation.

Plus isn't this move completely contrary to the "lets go for it all now" philosopy that seemed to be guiding this team during the winter?

UPRedsFan
04-01-2012, 03:29 PM
Forget the lack of a lefty pinch hitter. This had to be done. With Madson out and Masset's shoulder, had to have another right handed reliever.

NeilHamburger
04-01-2012, 03:30 PM
One thing I kinda wonder with this move is if maybe there hasn't been some discussion with Rolen about coming back next year.

I know it's been pretty much assumed this is it for Rolen. But maybe he still wants to play next year, especially if his shoulder is feeling good. If that's the case there really isn't a spot for Juan. Juan's style as a hitter is not what you want from a pinch hitter, a lefty specialist would carve him up with offspeed stuff.

wvreds
04-01-2012, 03:32 PM
Something tells me Walt is not done for the day....... Thats just my opinion .... Maybe we will see Bailey gone today as well??

RedsFan_26
04-01-2012, 03:37 PM
Something tells me Walt is not done for the day....... Thats just my opinion .... Maybe we will see Bailey gone today as well??

Exactly what i was thinking, perhaps a Bailey for LH bat trade?

Mutaman
04-01-2012, 03:52 PM
I If that's the case there really isn't a spot for Juan. Juan's style as a hitter is not what you want from a pinch hitter, a lefty specialist would carve him up with offspeed stuff.

Why would you bat him as a pinch hitter against "a lefty specialist"?

NeilHamburger
04-01-2012, 04:31 PM
Most teams have one in their bullpen, you bring in Juan as a pinch hitter late in games he's probably going to face one.

xavr1
04-01-2012, 05:10 PM
I like this move, as it gives us more potential bullpen depth. Now lets deal Homer too and get Chapman in the rotation with Francis as insurance!

The Rage
04-01-2012, 05:23 PM
Leake will go down for Hoover.

Mutaman
04-01-2012, 05:35 PM
Leake will go down for Hoover.

Why? What is it about Leake that inspires all this foolishness? (From Dusty too). Twenty wins in 2 years? Just put him in the rotation and leave him alone.

CrosleyField
04-01-2012, 05:44 PM
Great trade for the Reds.

The Rage
04-01-2012, 05:53 PM
Why? What is it about Leake that inspires all this foolishness? (From Dusty too). Twenty wins in 2 years? Just put him in the rotation and leave him alone.

Because Leake hasn't show himself any better than Bailey and I am talking about the 4 spot. Bailey finally got himself in shape, the Reds prepped him better than they have since he has been in the organization mechanically........and Leake has options.

Financially, the Reds feel bound to give Arroyo(3rd spot) and Chapman(5th spot) chances to get a return on the investment. The Reds have also invested more into Homer than Leake right now. Wins mean little in overall pitcher evaluation. In that regard, Cueto is overpaid.

It would also put 2 guys in AAA in case Bailey doesn't improve, Chapman or Arroyo can't cut it as a starter.

LeDoux
04-01-2012, 06:08 PM
I have trouble envisioning JF having a long tenure in the majors with his lack of plate discipline. Pun intended.

texasdave
04-01-2012, 06:17 PM
I have trouble envisioning JF having a long tenure in the majors with his lack of plate discipline. Pun intended.

Are you trying to say he has no self-control at the dish?

LeDoux
04-01-2012, 06:20 PM
Are you trying to say he has no self-control at the dish?

:thumbup: & :beerme:

Mutaman
04-01-2012, 07:27 PM
Because Leake hasn't show himself any better than Bailey and I am talking about the 4 spot.

In the last two years, Leake has won 20 games, (straight out of college) and probably could have won a few more last year if they hadn't ended his season in August. Those were his first two years of professional baseball.

In the past two years, after having much more professional experience, Bailey has won 13 games.

Just look at last season and judge by any statistic- on paper how can you support saying that Leake is not superior. Maybe I'm missing something.

And, after spending the winter, pursuing a philosophy of going for it all this year, you're saying that all of a sudden the Reds should start making decisions based on trying to get a return on investnment. Put the best 25 players on the field now! You don't send Mike Leake to Louisville.

TuneSquad
04-01-2012, 09:16 PM
I completely agree with Mutaman. Leake was our 2nd best starter last year and he is far more consistent than Homer. I still think both of them should make the rotation to start the year tho. Personally, I think people are overlooking Arroyo's year last year. What happens if he has the same year or worse... I say he should be close to the hot seat as well!

drowg14
04-01-2012, 09:27 PM
I completely agree with Mutaman. Leake was our 2nd best starter last year and he is far more consistent than Homer. I still think both of them should make the rotation to start the year tho. Personally, I think people are overlooking Arroyo's year last year. What happens if he has the same year or worse... I say he should be close to the hot seat as well!

If it wasn't for his contract, he would be. He might even have missed the cut. But we can't trade his contract, especially with all of his deferred money. And he makes too much to be a MR. I am among those that he will be nowhere near as bad as last year though.

Mutaman
04-01-2012, 09:45 PM
I suspect Walt and Dusty will agree with the Rage and fool around with Leake, either sending him to the minors or the bullpen, while they see if Chappy can start, or if Bonson has anything left, or if Homer can ever get it together.

And when the dust clears, Leake will be called back and will win about 15 games (which we all agree means little in overall pitcher evaluation). Hopefully Leake can handle having his head messed up, which we already know Homer can't.

DGullett35
04-02-2012, 05:16 AM
Leake stays in the rotation all year long. They shut him down last year so he could go 200 innings this year and hes by far our third best starter even tho he will be in the 5 spot to start the season. The Reds front office/manager/whoever makes the decisions would be crazy not to have Mike Leake in this rotation. If he was inserted in the bullpen or sent to AAA then id have to call Walt a hypocrit because hes not trying to win "NOW". Mike Leake will win 15 games this year and only will get better. Im a fan of Homer and I really think this could be the year when he figures it all out but theres no way in h*** he gets a spot instead of Leake in this rotation. Looks like Homer has to get traded or mabey we find an organization so dumb that they would take Arroyo off our hands. I do agree that Aroldis deserves a spot in the rotation based upon his spring but I just can't see how Leake would be the odd man out based on numbers. I can see the whole argument about who has options and stuff but if were going by numbers theres no way. I seriously would be upset if Leake isnt pitching every 5 days. Just talking and reading these posts has me getting a weird feeling about what might happen before thursday. Looks like someone is going to have to get ahold of Tim Tebow and have him pray for our Reds.

bmwreds31
04-02-2012, 06:07 PM
woooohoooooo GREAT NEWS.

Im so happy i dont have to watch him swing a bat anymore this season.

Sorry i was not a fan at all of the willy Mo little brother.

If JJ Hoover can amount to anything and not blow too many leads im a real happy camper right now.

texasdave
04-02-2012, 06:11 PM
I think Francisco has the higher ceiling and yet the lower floor. If that makes sense. Once a trade is made don't look back. Go Mr. Hoover.

swaisuc
04-04-2012, 11:25 AM
Hoover pitched for the futures last night and I believe struck out the side. IIRC he had a pretty good out pitch he was putting people away with (assume slider).

joshua
04-04-2012, 03:05 PM
Hoover pitched for the futures last night and I believe struck out the side. IIRC he had a pretty good out pitch he was putting people away with (assume slider).

Walked one, K'd three. No hits.

My concern is that he's been described as a fly ball pitcher, but he's young enough and good enough where that can be changed. He has great stats, great stuff and is on the track to the majors in a hurry. He projects as either a reliever or a middle of the rotation starter. He was starting in the minor last year for the Braves and he put up decent numbers, but they switched him to relief at some point during the season where he really flourished. I would love to see a rotation of Cueto, Latos, Leake, Chapman, Hoover in the next year or two. And there's still Corcino as well.

After the trades we made, the farm is still stacked which is amazing. Soto, Lutz, Phipps and DDG are all going to be good.