View Full Version : Who got the better deal Giants or Reds?

04-03-2012, 11:45 PM
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-joey-votto-20120403,0,1094660.story (http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-joey-votto-20120403,0,1094660.story)

Both the Reds and the Giants agreed to shell out a lot of money on Monday, but which team made the better deal? Vote in the poll, then leave a comment explaining why you voted the way you did

04-04-2012, 12:09 AM
I'd vote the Reds. I think it's ALWAYS riskier to sign a SP to a long term contract. Cain could tear a rotator cuff tomorrow and all of a sudden that deal looks awful. True, Votto could get hurt too. But unless it's an injury of catastrophic proportions, it's not likely to be as serious for a position player as an arm injury would be for a pitcher.

04-04-2012, 12:34 AM
The Reds got a good deal all in all. Guys with a .900+ career OPS don't grow on trees. In fact they are rare. SO rare in fact the only Red player beside Joey with a career OPS over .900 is Frank Robby at .926. Of course Votto is just starting out so its hardly fair to compare but I'll do it anyway - Bench had 2 seasons over .900 and never as high as Joeys current career .955. Larkin topped his career mark one season and topped .900 3 times but finished way under .900 career wise, Pinson never had a .900 season as good as he was, Perez did it twice and topped Joeys career mark in one season, Foster topped .900 3 times, only once over .955, Edd Roush had 2 season just over .900, Wally Post the popular slugger of the 50s had 2 .900 seasons but career wise was way under it, in fact of all the hitters named only Robinson topped .900 for his career no one else even threatened it. That's how good Votto historically, to date. He is in the same company as Frank Robinson, basically - not as good, I think if you look at Robby and Votto you'll concede that but being second best in history to Robinson as the best Reds hitter to date (of course he must maintain this level for several more seasons for that to be a valid comp long term). I'm only making an observation that looking forward at what Joey has done this contract is completely justified. You basically have the second best hitter in 135 years of Reds history playing right now.

04-04-2012, 04:43 AM
Both are questionable deals and very risky, but always take the position player over the pitcher... injuries ruin pitchers far more often than position guys.

04-04-2012, 09:35 AM
I'd go with Votto. If you're going to do a long-term deal, signing a power-hitting position player at one of the corners seems like the safest way to do it in terms of minimizing the risk of injury or age-related decline. Moreover, the long term ZIPS projection for Votto looks pretty good. Dan Szymborski has him pegged for 45-50 WAR over the life of the contract, which would make it pretty close to market value.

As for Cain, he's been remarkably consistent, but his great performance last year was bolstered partly by a HR/FB rate that was unsustainably low even by his standards. It seems like the Giants chose to extend him at a time when his stock was at a peak, and they may have unnecessarily paid a premium for doing so.

04-04-2012, 11:37 AM
Kevin Brown anyone? I'll take the position player, even with more years at stake.

04-04-2012, 11:58 AM
I look at present day Matt Cain as comparable to a 2007 Aaron Harang. We'd all be upset if the Reds signed Harang to a deal like this after the 2007 season. Of course that's with the benefit of hindsight.

04-04-2012, 12:07 PM
I heard Keith Law on Mo's show yesterday, and while I understand his criticism, I think he simply doesn't know Joey Votto.

Here's why it's a good signing:
1. First base probably has less wear and tear on a player than any position other than DHing. Should help with longevity. See Konerko or Thome, even though both DH alot.
2. Votto isn't any regular guy. The dude works out extensively, and stays in great shape, and will continue to stay in great shape.
3. Votto is in the mold of Pujols and other great players who age but still put up numbers. Votto doesn't take playing in the majors lightly and wants to be a HOFer someday, and realizes how much hard work he has to put in to be and stay great. I see this.
4. $20M per season may be cheap in 6 to 10 years the way things are going.
5. Reds need an identity. Votto is da man. You pay that guy da money to be da man.

04-04-2012, 12:08 PM
At the time I voted in the poll more voters had opted to say that the Giants got the better deal. I disagree. As others here have already noted, any long term contract for a pitcher is more risky than for a position player.

04-04-2012, 12:31 PM
Cain doesnt strike fear in me when we face him like Halladay. Votto does for our opponents.