PDA

View Full Version : Todd Frazier optioned in favor of Orioles reject



ptownred
04-04-2012, 05:35 PM
Unbelievable!!:confused:

wvreds
04-04-2012, 05:45 PM
Just when I think we have gotten over the hump of bad moves THIS happens. I feel horrible for Frazier....... How will a Baltimore Reject even compare??

Red Raindog
04-04-2012, 05:48 PM
wow --

can't say I saw this coming!

:eek:

goreds2
04-04-2012, 05:59 PM
Details? (Too lazy to google)

joshua
04-04-2012, 06:02 PM
Alfredo Simon. Throws in the upper 90's, could be a end of rotation starter or middle reliever. Frazier was optioned to Louisville to make room for this guy. Hurt himself early in Spring for the O's and sat nine days. Pitched 23 games (16 starts) last year. Went 4-9 with a 4.90 ERA. I don't understand this at all.

KYRedLeg
04-04-2012, 06:04 PM
...WHAT?

justincredible
04-04-2012, 06:22 PM
I hate this move, Frazier absolutely deserved to make the club.

brm7675
04-04-2012, 06:26 PM
I love this move, I can't believe you guys don't, this means I get to see Frazier play with the Bats when they come to Indy..sweet....;)

texasdave
04-04-2012, 06:40 PM
They sent down Todd Frazier and kept Willie Harris. LOL.
Anyone wanna tell us again how Dusty doesn't have a serious man-crush on Veteran Creaminess?
And here Dusty was just telling us last night on the pre-game show last night what a great idea it was to go with 14 position players early in the season. LOL.
Never a dull moment with this club. Frazier, who can play any of the positions that Harris can, and undeniably has a better stick is in Louisville.
Yet Willie Harris made the club over a player who clearly outplayed him in the spring. I cant believe it.

brm7675
04-04-2012, 06:49 PM
They sent down Todd Frazier and kept Willie Harris. LOL.
Anyone wanna tell us again how Dusty doesn't have a serious man-crush on Veteran Creaminess?
And here Dusty was just telling us last night on the pre-game show last night what a great idea it was to go with 14 position players early in the season. LOL.
Never a dull moment with this club. Frazier, who can play any of the positions that Harris can, and undeniably has a better stick is in Louisville.
Yet Willie Harris made the club over a player who clearly outplayed him in the spring. I cant believe it.

I have to wonder...is there any other manager in baseball so out of touch with today's game then Dusty? Also is there one who has such deep love for veteran creaminess more then Dusty...

brm7675
04-04-2012, 06:52 PM
If the Reds feel Simon can bring something to the team then fine...but why not send Chapman down to AAA to work on being a starting pitcher and keep Frazier on the major league roster.

joshua
04-04-2012, 06:52 PM
I have to think that outside a World Series, this is Dusty's last season with the club. I could see him staying if the "Votto Windows" was still only two years, for the sake of continuity, but I really think it's time to go a different direction. Like someone said in another thread, I wouldn't be surprised if Walt brought LaRussa to Cincinnati.

DocRed
04-04-2012, 06:53 PM
I hate Dusty like the next person....but is this a Dusty move or a Walt move?

texasdave
04-04-2012, 06:57 PM
I hate Dusty like the next person....but is this a Dusty move or a Walt move?

It strikes me as a Dusty move. But you might be right. In either case it was the wrong move, IMO.

Jefferson24
04-04-2012, 07:35 PM
It strikes me as a Dusty move. But you might be right. In either case it was the wrong move, IMO.

This will likely be the last year for Dusty and his moves.

tedies
04-04-2012, 07:54 PM
This Simon guy better impress

R_Webb18
04-04-2012, 07:55 PM
If the Reds feel Simon can bring something to the team then fine...but why not send Chapman down to AAA to work on being a starting pitcher and keep Frazier on the major league roster.

if they were gonna do that he would be there already

brm7675
04-04-2012, 08:07 PM
This will likely be the last year for Dusty and his moves.

Oh no...we will win the divsion make the playoffs do pretty well and ole Bob will "reward" dusty with another 3 year deal...:(

brm7675
04-04-2012, 08:08 PM
This Simon guy better impress

Define "Impress"? I am willing to bet we don't even see him that much if at all over the next few weeks.

The DARK
04-04-2012, 08:09 PM
A few thoughts:

-I'm glad they added a 7th bullpen arm. Going in with only 6 could have posed a real problem, with Bray coming off an injury and the heavy workload a lot of these guys had last season. I'd have been ok if they didn't, but adding one was probably the best option.

-That said, why Simon? Do they have that little confidence in Judy, Zavada, or Fisher? They probably haven't even had time to medically evaluate this guy fully (he's coming off a groin injury), let alone have the extended look of spring training. He's not even a lefty. Heck, even JJ Hoover looks so much more ready at this point. Why not use the guy you traded for if you're hurting for bullpen depth? This reeks of a panic move that didn't need to be made.

-I wish it didn't have to be Frazier that was sent down, but that was really the only option we left ourselves. Harris is a lefty, and the only one on the team after Bruce and Votto. What else are we gonna do when they just toss all their righty relievers at most of the lineup, and save their one lefty for Votto and Bruce? We're going to be a really easy lineup to plan against.

-As much as I've liked the signings we've made, I've been very disappointed with the recent turn of events. We hogtied ourselves by signing very few lefty arms and bats, and it's costing us dearly. With Marshall in the closer role, we left ourselves with no choice but to go with Chapman out of the pen instead of in his correct role in AAA or starting. This could have been prevented; of all the arms we signed after Marshall this offseason, only Zavada is a lefty, and he never seemed to get much consideration. By the same token, why sign Ludwick to play in LF and trade Francisco if you know that's going to leave you playing a negative WAR-and-declining outfielder instead of Frazier, who is fully capable of playing the corners? We stockpiled a lot of talent, but we're absolutely not running the best team that we could have out there. Hopefully if/when Masset comes back, Bray starts improving, and Frazier forces his way through we can get our house in order.

brm7675
04-04-2012, 08:16 PM
Give me players who produce, this idea that a team has to carry X amount of lefties or righties out of the pen or on the bench is CRAP. Sometimes I think some people way over think this game.

The DARK
04-04-2012, 08:28 PM
Give me players who produce, this idea that a team has to carry X amount of lefties or righties out of the pen or on the bench is CRAP. Sometimes I think some people way over think this game.

Perhaps, but the Reds have put themselves in a rather extreme circumstance where the only two power lefties on the team bat together in the lineup. That's incredibly easy to play against. That said, Harris has made a living as a platoon guy, and still only has a career OPS of .688 vs righties. That's not cutting it, and he doesn't even play good defense or have significant pop. All he has is in his favor is experience at CF and being left-handed. It's a testament to the sad state of the Reds bench (a strength last year) that that's enough to give him the nod over Frazier.

texasdave
04-04-2012, 08:28 PM
-I wish it didn't have to be Frazier that was sent down, but that was really the only option we left ourselves. Harris is a lefty, and the only one on the team after Bruce and Votto. What else are we gonna do when they just toss all their righty relievers at most of the lineup, and save their one lefty for Votto and Bruce? We're going to be a really easy lineup to plan against.

If I am the opposing manager and I only have one lefty in the pen then I am saving him for Bruce or Votto regardless of how many Willie Harrises they send up there. That is not even a consideration. Willie Harris is a career .688 OPS hitter against righthanders. Why waste a lefty on him? And I have complete confidence that Todd Frazier will hit righties, lefties or ambidextrous pitchers better than Willie Harris will.

nux fan
04-04-2012, 08:37 PM
look at the pathetic outpouring for uselss Frazier when Francisco has all the ability

The DARK
04-04-2012, 08:39 PM
If I am the opposing manager and I only have one lefty in the pen then I am saving him for Bruce or Votto regardless of how many Willie Harrises they send up there. That is not even a consideration.

Which is why we absolutely should not have let ourselves come to this situation in the first place. With all our the minor moves we should have at least been able to pick up a role player like Laynce Nix to fill this role instead of a guy who should be a AAA backup. It wasn't exactly news that the 1B/3B/LF bench role already had Cairo penciled in; how much time was Francisco realistically going to get off the bench? I liked the Francisco trade, but in retrospect it's starting to look like a panic move.

texasdave
04-04-2012, 08:45 PM
Which is why we absolutely should not have let ourselves come to this situation in the first place. With all our the minor moves we should have at least been able to pick up a role player like Laynce Nix to fill this role instead of a guy who should be a AAA backup. It wasn't exactly news that the 1B/3B/LF bench role already had Cairo penciled in; how much time was Francisco realistically going to get off the bench? I liked the Francisco trade, but in retrospect it's starting to look like a panic move.

I will agree with this. Instead of signing a player who is redundant, like Ludwick, they should have picked up a lefty outfielder. If they think Ludwick is better than Heisey, I have no problem with that. Then sign Ludwick, keep Francisco and trade Heisey for a decent arm.

brm7675
04-04-2012, 08:51 PM
look at the pathetic outpouring for uselss Frazier when Francisco has all the ability

Ability to do what...pack on the pounds and throw the ball into the seats behind first?

Lockdwn11
04-04-2012, 08:55 PM
look at the pathetic outpouring for uselss Frazier when Francisco has all the ability

Save the ability to take a walk.

Krawhitham
04-04-2012, 09:16 PM
I have to wonder...is there any other manager in baseball so out of touch with today's game then Dusty? Also is there one who has such deep love for veteran creaminess more then Dusty...

Dusty did not make this decision and did not seem happy about it either

Krawhitham
04-04-2012, 09:19 PM
look at the pathetic outpouring for uselss Frazier when Francisco has all the ability

Just look at the two and you can figure out why in Cincinnati fans love Frazier and hate Francisco

RedsfaninMT
04-04-2012, 10:18 PM
Too lazy to go check, but I think it was Keith Law who picked the Reds to win the Central at 92-70 on ESPN today, but stated "I wouldn't trust Dusty to manage a convenience store."

Funny stuff, if it didn't hit so close to being true.

Todd Gack
04-04-2012, 10:40 PM
They sent down Todd Frazier and kept Willie Harris. LOL.
Anyone wanna tell us again how Dusty doesn't have a serious man-crush on Veteran Creaminess?
And here Dusty was just telling us last night on the pre-game show last night what a great idea it was to go with 14 position players early in the season. LOL.
Never a dull moment with this club. Frazier, who can play any of the positions that Harris can, and undeniably has a better stick is in Louisville.
Yet Willie Harris made the club over a player who clearly outplayed him in the spring. I cant believe it.

Dusty's the GM?

Red Raindog
04-04-2012, 11:31 PM
If I am the opposing manager and I only have one lefty in the pen then I am saving him for Bruce or Votto regardless of how many Willie Harrises they send up there. That is not even a consideration. Willie Harris is a career .688 OPS hitter against righthanders. Why waste a lefty on him? And I have complete confidence that Todd Frazier will hit righties, lefties or ambidextrous pitchers better than Willie Harris will.

+1 !

Mr Larkin
04-05-2012, 02:17 AM
I may very well be wrong, but is this not true?
Simon was claimed off waivers from Baltimore. Doesn't he have to be on the major league level?
I love TF. I think he will be a great player.
Simon is filling Massett's spot.
I don't think it was veteran vs. young player with Harris over Frazier. I think it was left handed bat on bench verses all right hand bats. Harris is not as good as Frazier, but he hits left handed and you need at least one lefty on the bench.
This is not forever, just to begin the season.

Kingspoint
04-05-2012, 04:48 AM
Frazier should get recalled when Rolen goes on the DL.

joshua
04-05-2012, 05:23 AM
There are only two options available in free agency right now for lefties that can bat off the bench. JD Drew and Johnny Damon. And we shouldn't pick up either of them, so unless there's another trade coming up, we're stuck with Dusty bringing Willie Harris off the bench late in tight games.

Old NDN
04-05-2012, 10:18 AM
I hate Dusty like the next person....but is this a Dusty move or a Walt move?

I was wondering the same thing, as I read through the posts. I'm sure Dusty had a little input, but it's Walt's job to provide the players. Dusty just has to figure out when/how to use them. I have to admit, this move is a head scratcher.

brm7675
04-05-2012, 11:42 AM
I may very well be wrong, but is this not true?
Simon was claimed off waivers from Baltimore. Doesn't he have to be on the major league level?
I love TF. I think he will be a great player.
Simon is filling Massett's spot.
I don't think it was veteran vs. young player with Harris over Frazier. I think it was left handed bat on bench verses all right hand bats. Harris is not as good as Frazier, but he hits left handed and you need at least one lefty on the bench.
This is not forever, just to begin the season.

Fine, Simon can stay, send Chapman down to work on his starting abilities...

5ToolPlaya
04-05-2012, 12:38 PM
Dang, I'd rather have Fred Lewis back than Willie Harris.

malcontent
04-05-2012, 12:38 PM
Actually, Simon looks pretty good in some of his clips.

Cherry-picking, perhaps. But still...

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19175595&c_id=cin

malcontent
04-05-2012, 12:39 PM
Dang, I'd rather have Fred Lewis back than Willie Harris.
So would I.

OGB
04-06-2012, 02:25 PM
look at the pathetic outpouring for uselss Frazier when Francisco has all the ability

Ability?

Do you mean the ability to strike out even more than your man Drew Stubbs?

OGB
04-06-2012, 02:32 PM
They sent down Todd Frazier and kept Willie Harris. LOL.
Anyone wanna tell us again how Dusty doesn't have a serious man-crush on Veteran Creaminess?
And here Dusty was just telling us last night on the pre-game show last night what a great idea it was to go with 14 position players early in the season. LOL.
Never a dull moment with this club. Frazier, who can play any of the positions that Harris can, and undeniably has a better stick is in Louisville.
Yet Willie Harris made the club over a player who clearly outplayed him in the spring. I cant believe it.

What on earth is "veteran creaminess?" I'm sorry, but it just sounds ridiculous.
Also, the last time I checked, Dusty isn't in charge of claiming players off of waivers who are mandated to go straight to the 25 man roster.

texasdave
04-06-2012, 02:56 PM
x

Jr's Boy
04-06-2012, 03:10 PM
Simon will be closing eventually I bet.He still throws 94-95,had some success with closing with the O's.Plus pitching in the NL.

Ohayou
04-06-2012, 03:55 PM
Throws harder than that.

LeDoux
04-06-2012, 04:46 PM
What is the over/under on when Dusty will pitch Simon in a game with a 3 run or less difference in the score?

I am guessing at least 12 games will pass.

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 04:54 PM
Im saying sometime this weekend. Hes going to be used soon just like everyone else to get them some regular season work. Dusty will want to prove to everyone why the move was made. I did think that it was funny how Jon Fay said on yesterdays radio broadcast in the 2nd inning that he could not figure out why the Reds made the move to put Frazier back in AAA. I had to agree with him. I think we could have gotten away with 11 pitchers for 10 days or so. However I do agree with dusty in that it only takes one short outing from a starter and then your going to need that extra reliever sooner rather than later esp. with the non-depth we already have in the pen or should I say lack there of.

malcontent
04-06-2012, 05:44 PM
Check out the clip. This guy has some seriously good stuff.

Could be an excellent pick-up.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19175595&c_id=cin

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 05:54 PM
Wow that clip was pretty good. Guy was throwing a 95mph fastball, then was dropping an 82mph changeup. Looked good. Looks like he could possibly start for us if necessary. Hopefully he can give us some quality innings. What happens when Masset returns tho? Does Simon have options because I think he will most likely be sent down when that does happen.

texasdave
04-06-2012, 06:02 PM
Wow that clip was pretty good. Guy was throwing a 95mph fastball, then was dropping an 82mph changeup. Looked good. Looks like he could possibly start for us if necessary. Hopefully he can give us some quality innings. What happens when Masset returns tho? Does Simon have options because I think he will most likely be sent down when that does happen.


I found this on a Baltimore blog. It makes sense. If he had options then why didn't Baltimore just option him to AAA instead of putting him on waivers?


Simon is out of options and his situation will obviously impact what happens here. He missed nine days with a groin injury and it’s possible the team could DL Simon.

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 07:06 PM
So are we just renting him for a couple weeks then? That wouldnt make sense because we could have just kept Frazier up wit the big club or Francis or someone else could have filled in for the time being. It will be interesting to see who gets sent down when Masset comes off the DL especially if Simon can pitch well.

texasdave
04-06-2012, 07:11 PM
So are we just renting him for a couple weeks then? That wouldnt make sense because we could have just kept Frazier up wit the big club or Francis or someone else could have filled in for the time being. It will be interesting to see who gets sent down when Masset comes off the DL especially if Simon can pitch well.

Maybe Masset comes back and Chapman is optioned to Louisville to become a starter.

brm7675
04-06-2012, 08:09 PM
Maybe Masset comes back and Chapman is optioned to Louisville to become a starter.

Why not have Francis be the additional lefty out of the Pen and have Chapman in AAA starting...

malcontent
04-07-2012, 12:15 PM
From ORG:

"Simon’s fastball averaged 94.2 MPH last season, the seventh hardest heater in baseball (among pitchers with 100+ innings)."

"As far as the numbers. According to Jayson Stark of ESPN, there’s a lot a buzz surrounding Simon based on pure stuff. He was sitting 95 MPH the entire spring, and can start or relieve. Arms and experience like this don’t usually hit the waiver wire."

http://releasepoints.com/2012/03/31/new-baltimore-regime-committing-same-old-mistakes/

malcontent
04-07-2012, 12:15 PM
double post

S.Wells
04-09-2012, 04:51 PM
Frazier was sent down to just stay fresh and get plenty of playing time. With the possibility of Rolen, or any of our 4 outfielders get hurt they want him ready to come up and make a impact. Why have a young guy sit on the bench waiting when he could be getting time in Louisville.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk

EMAW
04-09-2012, 09:30 PM
I hate Dusty like the next person....but is this a Dusty move or a Walt move?

I'm a Reds fan, I DON'T hate Dusty, imagine this was a GM move

malcontent
04-09-2012, 11:50 PM
Simon looked pretty good tonite.

jwmann2
04-10-2012, 12:37 AM
We need pitching and you can never enough too much pitching. Frazier was a solid prospect and I don't like the move either, he provided depth at third base but Jocketty and Castellini don't want to plan for the next three or four years. They want to win right now.