PDA

View Full Version : Dusty says Hannigan to catch more than Mesoraco



fearofpopvol1
04-05-2012, 07:37 PM
Unfortunately, extra innings showed the Marlins feed in NY. Anyway, the announcers said during the game today they talked to Dusty about the catching situation and Dusty said that Hannigan will catch more than Mesoraco. They went on to say that Dusty made it seem as if Hannigan would take over for Hernandez's role from last year and that Mesoraco would be taking over Hannigan's spot.

PuffyPig
04-05-2012, 07:46 PM
I'm sure if Mess outhits Hanningan he'll play more.

Kc61
04-05-2012, 07:51 PM
This is absolutely appropriate, at least for the first half of the season.

RedsManRick
04-05-2012, 07:55 PM
Not a surprise to me. I'm not sure how people ever got the idea that Mes was "the starter".

The Voice of IH
04-05-2012, 08:42 PM
I'm sure if Mess outhits Hanningan he'll play more.

Bingo. Everyone has a plan, but if Mess earns playing time he will get playing time. Who cares who plays more as long as the person is playing is earning it.

MikeS21
04-05-2012, 09:09 PM
Bingo. Everyone has a plan, but if Mess earns playing time he will get playing time. Who cares who plays more as long as the person is playing is earning it.
Except I would like to see Mes hitting against live pitching and catching live pitchers four days a week rather than sitting the bench. If he is not going to play here, then send him to AAA where he will play more than he sits. The only way he will mature as a major league catcher is to play.

Even Hernandez got to start Opening Day last year.

dougdirt
04-05-2012, 09:21 PM
What a shame....

VR
04-05-2012, 09:57 PM
Sounds like a great plan, and an appropriate way to recognize Hanigan for knowing the staff better and allowing time for Mes to learn big league hitters at an appropriate pace.

corkedbat
04-05-2012, 10:14 PM
If Mes isn't catching 50% (or more) of the time, he needs to be in AAA getting regular work. Let Navarro caddy. The bench is so anemic anyway, what would one more light bat matter?

RedlegJake
04-06-2012, 12:17 AM
I don't have a problem with the plan at all. Mesoraco will play and get his chances. Right now Hanigan IS the better catcher, and the better hitter in every way except for power. I'll bet Mes ends up with 300 PA or more before the year is done. And I'll bet he's the front line catcher before the year is done, too. Criminy, not everything Dusty does is wrong headed.

kaldaniels
04-06-2012, 12:20 AM
I don't mind easing Mes into the catcher seat. Let him soak
up the Bigs for a bit.

dougdirt
04-06-2012, 01:13 AM
I don't have a problem with the plan at all. Mesoraco will play and get his chances. Right now Hanigan IS the better catcher, and the better hitter in every way except for power. I'll bet Mes ends up with 300 PA or more before the year is done. And I'll bet he's the front line catcher before the year is done, too. Criminy, not everything Dusty does is wrong headed.

Do you care to explain why you know that Hanigan is the better hitter except for power? I don't really know if I believe that. And even if I did, power is a big part of offense.

mth123
04-06-2012, 07:29 AM
I think familiarity with the league is more important than reps at AAA for a guy like Mes. He needs to become more familiar with the pitchers on his team that he'll be working with, the hitters in the league that he'll be trying to get out as well as the pitchers that he'll be hitting against. Can't do any of that at AAA.

Hanigan had 304 PAs last year. If that is the type of PT that Dusty has in mind for Mes, I can't see how its better for the Reds or Mesoraco to be in AAA. Catchers are a different animal than just about any other player. There is a lot to becoming a good catcher that can only be learned in the big leagues and it takes a while to become a good one. If the Reds were rebuilding, I'd stick Mes in the line-up, live with the growing pains and let him learn as he plays. But since the Reds are trying to win, I think the gradual approach and taking advantage of Hanigan's experience while avoiding some of the growing pains is the better idea.

membengal
04-06-2012, 08:05 AM
That plan makes sense to me.

Cyclone792
04-06-2012, 08:15 AM
I think familiarity with the league is more important than reps at AAA for a guy like Mes. He needs to become more familiar with the pitchers on his team that he'll be working with, the hitters in the league that he'll be trying to get out as well as the pitchers that he'll be hitting against. Can't do any of that at AAA.

Hanigan had 304 PAs last year. If that is the type of PT that Dusty has in mind for Mes, I can't see how its better for the Reds or Mesoraco to be in AAA. Catchers are a different animal than just about any other player. There is a lot to becoming a good catcher that can only be learned in the big leagues and it takes a while to become a good one. If the Reds were rebuilding, I'd stick Mes in the line-up, live with the growing pains and let him learn as he plays. But since the Reds are trying to win, I think the gradual approach and taking advantage of Hanigan's experience while avoiding some of the growing pains is the better idea.

This is it right here. Mesoraco should still get 300+ plate appearances and likely appear in half the Reds games, and I'm totally fine with that. Catchers aren't built for playing in 150 games anyway so this plan not only gives the Reds a chance to groom Mesoraco appropriately, it'll help keep both catchers fresh.

And remember, Hanigan is no slouch. He's a guy who carries a lifetime .371 on-base percentage, and that's certainly not going to hurt the run production. Now if we had Paul Bako back there instead of Hanigan, I might be barking for a bit more playing time for Mesoraco. But the tandem of Hernandez/Hanigan worked brilliantly the last few years and I expect this year's tandem to work just as brilliantly, if not better.

GAC
04-06-2012, 09:50 AM
That plan makes sense to me.

I totally agree. I do't understand why some would have a problem with a young kid who has how much ML experience, as well as A/Bs, being gradually worked in? He just needs to take advantage of those opportunities when given that's all.

And as talented a catching prospect that Mesoraco may be, he still has much to learn yet, and he can get that from Hanigan.

klw
04-06-2012, 10:02 AM
Does anyone remember which pitchers Hanigan typically caught last year? Latos is new so it would make sense for Mez to take him. Hanigan keeps his guys and Mez takes Hernandez's (I seem to remember Hernandez had Volquez) if the other 4 are split 2 and 2

WildcatFan
04-06-2012, 10:56 AM
Does anyone remember which pitchers Hanigan typically caught last year? Latos is new so it would make sense for Mez to take him. Hanigan keeps his guys and Mez takes Hernandez's (I seem to remember Hernandez had Volquez) if the other 4 are split 2 and 2

I believe Hanigan caught Arroyo, Leake and Bailey, and Ramon caught Cueto, Volquez, and the tandem of other guys who started at various points of the year (Willis, Wood, etc.). By the end of the season, Mes was catching pretty much everybody, FWIW.

I'm on board with Hanigan getting most of the starts for now with Mes catching 1-2 days a week until he gets his feet wet. Mes really struggled from the plate in his 15 or so games in September, and this being an important year, I think he needs to prove he can be a productive hitter before you give him even a half of the load. I'm a big fan of Hanigan, both at the plate and behind it and would even like to see him get some starts in the 2-hole of the lineup.

Puffy
04-06-2012, 12:38 PM
What a shame....

:lol:

Shocking that you, Doug, would rather the young player play than the guy who is a proven commodity. Let's remember Mes was not impressive in the least last year in September nor this spring. He is going to have to force himself into more playing time - which is exactly how it should be.

MikeS21
04-06-2012, 12:42 PM
I believe Hanigan caught Arroyo, Leake and Bailey, and Ramon caught Cueto, Volquez, and the tandem of other guys who started at various points of the year (Willis, Wood, etc.). By the end of the season, Mes was catching pretty much everybody, FWIW.

I'm on board with Hanigan getting most of the starts for now with Mes catching 1-2 days a week until he gets his feet wet. Mes really struggled from the plate in his 15 or so games in September, and this being an important year, I think he needs to prove he can be a productive hitter before you give him even a half of the load. I'm a big fan of Hanigan, both at the plate and behind it and would even like to see him get some starts in the 2-hole of the lineup.
Then let Mes struggle at AAA, where he can get work in facing live playing conditions - not riding the bench. How can he "get his feet wet" from the bench? How can he "prove he can be a productive hitter" if he is only hitting in one or two games a week? Mes needs to be in a situation where he is the primary catcher. If he isn't ready for the big leagues, then why is he here?

Out of every ten games the Reds play, Mes ought to catch no less than six or seven games.

bucksfan2
04-06-2012, 12:45 PM
Then let Mes struggle at AAA, where he can get work in facing live playing conditions - not riding the bench. How can he "get his feet wet" from the bench? How can he "prove he can be a productive hitter" if he is only hitting in one or two games a week? Mes needs to be in a situation where he is the primary catcher. If he isn't ready for the big leagues, then why is he here?

Out of every ten games the Reds play, Mes ought to catch no less than six or seven games.

Mes said he felt it was more important that he ride the bench and learn the aspects of being a major league catcher then spend every day in the minors playing.

WildcatFan
04-06-2012, 12:57 PM
Mes said he felt it was more important that he ride the bench and learn the aspects of being a major league catcher then spend every day in the minors playing.

This.

There's only so far Mes can advance his skills in AAA. Getting his feet wet means easing him into major league catching by giving him a couple starts a week while learning under Hanigan. Remember, this is Hanigan's fifth season in the bigs, and I think most of us would agree he understands the game as well as anyone. Mes can learn from this guy just sitting next to him every day.

vic715
04-06-2012, 01:03 PM
I remember a 20 year old rookie catcher the Reds had in 1968 who ended up making the all-star team.His being needed to get familier with the league is overated,as I'm sure he goes over the lineup before the game and scouting is more advanced than it once was.If he's the catcher of the future and he's on the 25 man roster then let him play.

traderumor
04-06-2012, 02:09 PM
Mes said he felt it was more important that he ride the bench and learn the aspects of being a major league catcher then spend every day in the minors playing.There seems to be a default position with some that "prospect playing every day > prospect getting major league experience while not playing every day." At catcher, I think Mesaroco is wise beyond his years in his comments.

traderumor
04-06-2012, 02:10 PM
I remember a 20 year old rookie catcher the Reds had in 1968 who ended up making the all-star team.His being needed to get familier with the league is overated,as I'm sure he goes over the lineup before the game and scouting is more advanced than it once was.If he's the catcher of the future and he's on the 25 man roster then let him play.Once in a lifetime player and an exception to any developmental rule of thumb.

RedsManRick
04-06-2012, 02:32 PM
Does anyone remember which pitchers Hanigan typically caught last year? Latos is new so it would make sense for Mez to take him. Hanigan keeps his guys and Mez takes Hernandez's (I seem to remember Hernandez had Volquez) if the other 4 are split 2 and 2

Rule of thumb was that Hanigan took the English speakers, Hernandez took the Spanish speakers.

dougdirt
04-06-2012, 02:36 PM
:lol:

Shocking that you, Doug, would rather the young player play than the guy who is a proven commodity. Let's remember Mes was not impressive in the least last year in September nor this spring. He is going to have to force himself into more playing time - which is exactly how it should be.

Yeah, it is completely shocking that I would want to see the guy who is likely to be the better player of the two THIS YEAR, play more.

Mesoraco is a better hitter than Hanigan is, I don't care what he did in September (where his BABIP was under .200) or in some practice games. It isn't about him being a prospect or a young guy. It has to do with him being the better player. Just like Chapman, who I want starting in Louisville, because him getting acclimated and experience in that role is far more important and valuable to the Reds future than what he is being used as right now. Sure, maybe Hanigans overall value can be similar to that of Mesoraco this year when we look at the whole package, but that also means in the future we are likely to wait longer to see the full package from Mesoraco because he went out and got 300 PA's this year instead of 450. Mesoraco isn't some meddling prospect, he was the best catching prospect in the game for the last two seasons.

Kc61
04-06-2012, 02:40 PM
Then let Mes struggle at AAA, where he can get work in facing live playing conditions - not riding the bench. How can he "get his feet wet" from the bench? How can he "prove he can be a productive hitter" if he is only hitting in one or two games a week? Mes needs to be in a situation where he is the primary catcher. If he isn't ready for the big leagues, then why is he here?

Out of every ten games the Reds play, Mes ought to catch no less than six or seven games.

This board is consumed with sending people to AAA if they aren't used exactly as the poster believes. AAA, AAA, AAA.

It's almost like everyone here is most interested in winning the IL title rather than the NL title.

Mes will get plenty of work behind the dish, and will learn much being in the major leagues this year. But Hanigan is more experienced and is a fine catcher and good hitter in his own right.

Dusty probably intends to have Hanigan catch three of the starters - and have Mes catch two of the starters. So Hanny catches 60 percent of the time, Mes the rest.

Hard to imagine anyone complaining about this. Mes isn't Williie Harris who may get 3 at bats a week. He will catch and hit plenty.

Kc61
04-06-2012, 02:49 PM
Yeah, it is completely shocking that I would want to see the guy who is likely to be the better player of the two THIS YEAR, play more.

Mesoraco is a better hitter than Hanigan is, I don't care what he did in September (where his BABIP was under .200) or in some practice games. It isn't about him being a prospect or a young guy. It has to do with him being the better player. Just like Chapman, who I want starting in Louisville, because him getting acclimated and experience in that role is far more important and valuable to the Reds future than what he is being used as right now. Sure, maybe Hanigans overall value can be similar to that of Mesoraco this year when we look at the whole package, but that also means in the future we are likely to wait longer to see the full package from Mesoraco because he went out and got 300 PA's this year instead of 450. Mesoraco isn't some meddling prospect, he was the best catching prospect in the game for the last two seasons.

These opinions all start from the premise that 2012 is secondary and the "future" is important.

That premise leads to a never-ending spiral of waiting till next year.

Dusty and Walt want to win this year. They aren't doing anything terrible to accomplish that. Chapman is helping in a role of serious need caused by injury. Mes is deferring somewhat to a more experienced and very good catcher.

Both are in the majors, both will get lots of opportunities going forward.

Nothing wrong with it.

dougdirt
04-06-2012, 02:57 PM
These opinions all start from the premise that 2012 is secondary and the "future" is important.

That premise leads to a never-ending spiral of waiting till next year.

Dusty and Walt want to win this year. They aren't doing anything terrible to accomplish that. Chapman is helping in a role of serious need caused by injury. Mes is deferring somewhat to a more experienced and very good catcher.

Both are in the majors, both will get lots of opportunities going forward.

Nothing wrong with it.

My premise is that Mesoraco will be every bit as good as Hanigan this year and much better in the future, so splitting time or even giving Hanigan more time right now is just a bad choice.

Chapman... I will leave it for the other threads.

Crumbley
04-06-2012, 03:00 PM
He's a rookie catcher, Dusty is breaking him in. If he catches fire and/or Hanigan slumps badly, Mesoraco will get the extra playing time. He'll get plenty of PAs regardless.

bucksfan2
04-06-2012, 03:13 PM
Yeah, it is completely shocking that I would want to see the guy who is likely to be the better player of the two THIS YEAR, play more.

Mesoraco is a better hitter than Hanigan is, I don't care what he did in September (where his BABIP was under .200) or in some practice games. It isn't about him being a prospect or a young guy. It has to do with him being the better player. Just like Chapman, who I want starting in Louisville, because him getting acclimated and experience in that role is far more important and valuable to the Reds future than what he is being used as right now. Sure, maybe Hanigans overall value can be similar to that of Mesoraco this year when we look at the whole package, but that also means in the future we are likely to wait longer to see the full package from Mesoraco because he went out and got 300 PA's this year instead of 450. Mesoraco isn't some meddling prospect, he was the best catching prospect in the game for the last two seasons.

If you throw Mesoraco to the wolves at the start of the season I think his development in 2012 will be slowed. Its not that he has to focus just on hitting, he needs to learn an entire new staff. Its hard enough to get your feet wet in the majors let alone be forced to call a game or catch a pitcher that you only have done a few times before in you career.

I don't have an issue with Hanigan getting 3 games for Mesoraco's 2 at the start of the season. I do think that as the season goes along Mecoraco is going to warrant more and more pt. Is there anything wrong with that? Its not like they are running Paul Bako or Corky Miller out there 3 out of 5 days, its Hanigan who is a pretty darn good catcher in his own right, and also a catcher who knows how to find 1b better than any Red not named Votto.

wlf WV
04-06-2012, 03:27 PM
I hope Mesoraco replaces Hannigan as easily as many think he can.Hannigan is very,very good at his position.I've not got a dog in this hunt.

VR
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Mes tore up AAA last year. Not the same as the bigs. Paul Janish hit two bombs last night for Louisville against starters who aren't good enough to be in the major leagues.

I'd like to see the slow road the first 1/2 of the year with Mes. It's not like they are starting Brad Gulden out there in front of him.

dougdirt
04-06-2012, 03:54 PM
If you throw Mesoraco to the wolves at the start of the season I think his development in 2012 will be slowed. Its not that he has to focus just on hitting, he needs to learn an entire new staff. Its hard enough to get your feet wet in the majors let alone be forced to call a game or catch a pitcher that you only have done a few times before in you career.
Throwing someone to the wolves means they aren't ready. Mesoraco is ready. Mesoraco has caught everyone on the staff 10+ times aside from Arroyo and perhaps some of the relievers, which the same holds true for Hanigan.

dougdirt
04-06-2012, 03:57 PM
Mes tore up AAA last year. Not the same as the bigs. Paul Janish hit two bombs last night for Louisville against starters who aren't good enough to be in the major leagues.


Ah yes, comparing Mesoraco in AAA at 23 to Janish at 29 over a span of 1 game in AAA.... Janish in his AAA career has a .686 OPS. Mesoraco has been the best catching prospect two years running in all of baseball. You don't get there because you only feast on bad pitching. Professional scouts tend to have a good idea of guys who aren't going to be able to hit MLB pitching and rank those guys accordingly (which is why we see a guy like Neftali Soto or Juan Francisco hit home runs everywhere and yet never sniff the Top 100 prospect lists).

VR
04-06-2012, 04:21 PM
Ah yes, comparing Mesoraco in AAA at 23 to Janish at 29 over a span of 1 game in AAA.... Janish in his AAA career has a .686 OPS. Mesoraco has been the best catching prospect two years running in all of baseball. You don't get there because you only feast on bad pitching. Professional scouts tend to have a good idea of guys who aren't going to be able to hit MLB pitching and rank those guys accordingly (which is why we see a guy like Neftali Soto or Juan Francisco hit home runs everywhere and yet never sniff the Top 100 prospect lists).

And yet....all all those professional scouts, managers and GMs would tell you that the prescribed approach Dusty is taking is the right path for someone like Mes.....especially when he is sharing time with an exceptional major league receiver, who provided an acceptable bat when he is in there.

traderumor
04-06-2012, 04:23 PM
My premise is that Mesoraco will be every bit as good as Hanigan this year and much better in the future, so splitting time or even giving Hanigan more time right now is just a bad choice.

Chapman... I will leave it for the other threads.First, consider the source (e.g. other team's announcer's, appear to be paraphrasing) that have sprung this discussion. Second, I am sure your premise is based on sound assumptions, but there is also a lot of merit of not overwhelming a rookie catcher. This is a huge step forward, maybe he's all that, but Hanigan is also a very good defensive catcher and is an above average bottom of the order offensive performer. Dusty's handling has a lot of merit, and quite honestly Doug, you are showing of pattern of "Dusty's idea, I'm agin it (spit)"

bucksfan2
04-06-2012, 04:23 PM
Throwing someone to the wolves means they aren't ready. Mesoraco is ready. Mesoraco has caught everyone on the staff 10+ times aside from Arroyo and perhaps some of the relievers, which the same holds true for Hanigan.

Your assuming Mesoraco is ready based upon what? He is ready to take over the most difficult defensive position on the field and should just have the job handed over to him carte blanche?

Raisor
04-06-2012, 05:01 PM
Challange thy hitters. Letting young players "learn" (largely by osmosis) in the major leauges is a waste of resources. I would rather find out what we have in Mes now instead of spreading it out over the next couple of years. 300 pa's can only START giving you any kind of baseline. He needs 400-500 pa's this year between the majors and minors.

dougdirt
04-06-2012, 05:03 PM
Your assuming Mesoraco is ready based upon what? He is ready to take over the most difficult defensive position on the field and should just have the job handed over to him carte blanche?

Based upon his skillset. He has good plate discipline, makes contact at a solid rate and has above-average power. Those things all suggest he is ready to produce, especially at a weak hitting position like catcher.

As for his defense, reports on his defense have been good for a while now.

I don't want him starting 140 games, but a 100-62 split for Mesoraco makes a lot more sense than a 100-62 Hanigan split.

westofyou
04-06-2012, 05:06 PM
Frankly I could care less about his abs, I want him to get used to the stress and the mental grind of big league ball and mastering the hardest position in the game. Plus no catcher lives long without sharing some time, if he's the stud he should be then the time will gravitate to him. Hanigan is not a large guy he will experience wear and he has experience with much if the staff, experience not gleaned in ten games nor fifty

Mes will get his chance to shine

traderumor
04-06-2012, 05:27 PM
Based upon his skillset. He has good plate discipline, makes contact at a solid rate and has above-average power. Those things all suggest he is ready to produce, especially at a weak hitting position like catcher.

As for his defense, reports on his defense have been good for a while now.

I don't want him starting 140 games, but a 100-62 split for Mesoraco makes a lot more sense than a 100-62 Hanigan split.I guess that gets back to what Dusty meant by his comment. Since we're "analyzing" third hand info, who knows.

RedlegJake
04-06-2012, 06:19 PM
Do you care to explain why you know that Hanigan is the better hitter except for power? I don't really know if I believe that. And even if I did, power is a big part of offense.

Easy - Hanigan is more disciplined, patient and has a better approach. His biggest drawback as a hitter is plain and simple. He has next to no power. (I agree that is a big drawback) He makes consistent contact, strikes out fairly infrequently and has a very good on base percentage. Behind the dish he handles the pitchers well, they seem to respond to him and he is a solid defender.

Mesaraco still struggles sometimes behind the plate, although he is making very fast strides and has improved amazingly in the past year alone. He also is occasionally overmatched at the plate by big league pitchers - that's to be expected and I don't have a problem with him struggling a bit, but that's why I think its best to ease him into the primary role. Keep the pressure off him, let him start when Dusty feels he has a good match up and sit when he feels he may be up against a pitcher that might be tougher for him to handle. Put him in positions to succeed. Hanigan is NOT a 130-140 game a year catcher so Mesoraco is going to get a lot of time in whether he is nominally called the primary catcher or not!

We'll just disagree I guess on which is a better hitter right now - but I have no doubt at all that Mesoraco will be much better in the future- the near future, and this phasing in is part of the development. A good part, imo. You have your opinion, I have mine. I respect your opinions and views but nothing you've pointed out about Mes or Ryan changes my opinion in this case. Probably luckily for the Reds, neither of us actually makes the decisions.

Also, I predict it will end up being more like 80 games each instead of 100-62 for either. Hanigan will have more starts in the early months, Mesoraco, more starts in the second half.

dougdirt
04-06-2012, 06:31 PM
I guess that gets back to what Dusty meant by his comment. Since we're "analyzing" third hand info, who knows.

I trust scouts, especially ours, over Dusty's valuations every day of the week.

Sabo Fan
04-06-2012, 10:03 PM
Frankly I could care less about his abs, I want him to get used to the stress and the mental grind of big league ball and mastering the hardest position in the game. Plus no catcher lives long without sharing some time, if he's the stud he should be then the time will gravitate to him. Hanigan is not a large guy he will experience wear and he has experience with much if the staff, experience not gleaned in ten games nor fifty

Mes will get his chance to shine

Couldn't agree more. I expect a 60/40 split between Hanigan and Mesoraco this year, with Mes gaining as the year goes on. It won't help his ROY canidacy, but I think it's best for him long term. That and Hanigan is no slouch so it's not like he's getting more starts just because he's a veteran.

This team has much bigger issues than the timeshare behind the plate (3B, the last 2 spots in the rotation) to get worked up over.

Degenerate39
04-06-2012, 10:17 PM
No problem with this for now. When Mes starts outproducing Hanigan though that's when it'll get old

traderumor
04-06-2012, 10:27 PM
I trust scouts, especially ours, over Dusty's valuations every day of the week.What does that have to do with what Dusty actually said on this issue?

I would say though that if the Reds scouts are as consistently disrespectful and arrogant towards Dusty's opinions and actions as you are in RZ, then I consider them unprofessional and ultimately counterproductive for the good of the org.

dougdirt
04-07-2012, 02:13 AM
What does that have to do with what Dusty actually said on this issue?

I would say though that if the Reds scouts are as consistently disrespectful and arrogant towards Dusty's opinions and actions as you are in RZ, then I consider them unprofessional and ultimately counterproductive for the good of the org.

I read into what you said incorrectly. I thought you said something you didn't. Skim reading is bad.

But, as for the comments about Dusty and scouts.... I stand by that. Scouts get paid to watch the players and figure out what they can and can't do and for the most part are pretty good at it. Dusty gets paid to make decisions on line ups and things like that. His job isn't talent evaluation.

traderumor
04-07-2012, 08:13 AM
I read into what you said incorrectly. I thought you said something you didn't. Skim reading is bad.

But, as for the comments about Dusty and scouts.... I stand by that. Scouts get paid to watch the players and figure out what they can and can't do and for the most part are pretty good at it. Dusty gets paid to make decisions on line ups and things like that. His job isn't talent evaluation.In that economy, do scouts email Dusty the lineups, then? Unless the Reds are going to employ the Billy Beane ultimate control method, at some point, Dusty's playing time decisions require talent evaluation.

As for this discussion, its just the tired old myth that "Dusty won't play the young guys even if they could do the job," a myth that has been busted repeatedly in his tenure with the Reds. The latest one? Zack Cozart, plugged in immediately, handed the job out of the gate this year. I suppose you could argue this came from brass, but that would seem odd since it took management longer than most thought to give him the chance last year.

Baker is certainly not infallible in his decisions, I regularly question his bullpen decisions game to game, for example. He certainly has weaknesses (all decision makers do), but for the buffoon that his staunch opponents paint, he has had success at each stop in his career. At some point, the blind squirrel must be able to see something if he keeps on finding the nuts, right?

A final thought: something doesn't add up with the Reds plowing forward at breakneck speed in their gameplan if they didn't think that they had a competent man handling the day to day operation of the club on the field. Of course, that now gives him the greater responsibility to earn an extension, but I don't see a view of incompetence with the slew of recent activity.

edabbs44
04-07-2012, 08:27 AM
Mes will get his time. Dusty also has to get wins on the board. If Mes produces, I am sure Dusty will change his mind.

traderumor
04-07-2012, 08:32 AM
Mes will get his time. Dusty also has to get wins on the board. If Mes produces, I am sure Dusty will change his mind.Which I would argue is the way it should work. So far, the manager has seen a guy struggling at the plate in September and the spring (cue reminder that ST stats don't mean anything) and I saw a guy struggling behind the plate defensively last September. He was not settled in and comfortable at all. I understand his reluctance.

If only Dusty reviewed ZIPS, he'd know better.

GAC
04-07-2012, 08:43 AM
Frankly I could care less about his abs, I want him to get used to the stress and the mental grind of big league ball and mastering the hardest position in the game. Plus no catcher lives long without sharing some time, if he's the stud he should be then the time will gravitate to him. Hanigan is not a large guy he will experience wear and he has experience with much if the staff, experience not gleaned in ten games nor fifty

Mes will get his chance to shine

Exactly woy. Good post.

RANDY IN INDY
04-07-2012, 11:22 AM
In that economy, do scouts email Dusty the lineups, then? Unless the Reds are going to employ the Billy Beane ultimate control method, at some point, Dusty's playing time decisions require talent evaluation.

As for this discussion, its just the tired old myth that "Dusty won't play the young guys even if they could do the job," a myth that has been busted repeatedly in his tenure with the Reds. The latest one? Zack Cozart, plugged in immediately, handed the job out of the gate this year. I suppose you could argue this came from brass, but that would seem odd since it took management longer than most thought to give him the chance last year.

Baker is certainly not infallible in his decisions, I regularly question his bullpen decisions game to game, for example. He certainly has weaknesses (all decision makers do), but for the buffoon that his staunch opponents paint, he has had success at each stop in his career. At some point, the blind squirrel must be able to see something if he keeps on finding the nuts, right?

A final thought: something doesn't add up with the Reds plowing forward at breakneck speed in their gameplan if they didn't think that they had a competent man handling the day to day operation of the club on the field. Of course, that now gives him the greater responsibility to earn an extension, but I don't see a view of incompetence with the slew of recent activity.

:beerme:

lollipopcurve
04-07-2012, 11:31 AM
I don't mind this handling of Mesoraco. It's a tough position and there's a lot of pressure on this team to win. Hanigan is a good catcher who pitchers like to throw to, and that's a tough spot for a rookie to be in, too. Best to let him learn the ropes more in the shadows than the spotlight.

I appreciate some moves Baker makes. Others, no. The love-or-hate debate gets too loud for me.