Scoreboard Watching 2012

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

The ending of the KC game was as bizarre as anything I've seen. And the fact that it went against the Cards makes it even better.

But how about the first out of the ninth inning? Alcides Escobar made one of the best plays you'll ever see at shortstop.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2012_06_15_kcamlb_slnmlb_1&mode=video

[cincyinco]

The ending of the KC game was as bizarre as anything I've seen. And the fact that it went against the Cards makes it even better.

But how about the first out of the ninth inning? Alcides Escobar made one of the best plays you'll ever see at shortstop.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2012_06_15_kcamlb_slnmlb_1&mode=video

Love that escobar made that play against neck tats! The look on his face was priceless!

[redsmetz]

Watched the play the ended the Cards game last night again and I think it's very possible that the catchers foot slid Greene's right foot away from the plate and he tagged him before his left leg slid over the plate. Game of fractions.

[PuffyPig]

The ending of the KC game was as bizarre as anything I've seen. And the fact that it went against the Cards makes it even better.

But how about the first out of the ninth inning? Alcides Escobar made one of the best plays you'll ever see at shortstop.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2012_06_15_kcamlb_slnmlb_1&mode=video

Both Cards TV annoucer and the radio announcer (Mike Shannon) called the Molina hit a single before having to back track when the play was made.

That play can't be made with any runner in baseball other than a few (Molina being one of them).

[PuffyPig]

Watched the play the ended the Cards game last night again and I think it's very possible that the catchers foot slid Greene's right foot away from the plate and he tagged him before his left leg slid over the plate. Game of fractions.

That's the way it may have looked to me. But even in slow motion it's hard to really tell.

In any event, when the throw beats the runner to the plate (and this one did), the runner is called out unless the umpire can clearly see that the runner slid around the tag.

[redsfaninbsg]

At what point do we start paying attention to other divisional leaders? As we all know, the Reds went to Philly in 2010 and it was pretty much over when they got on the plane. If they get in, it would be nice to have home field advantage, especially against a NL East team.

[Tom Servo]

At what point do we start paying attention to other divisional leaders? As we all know, the Reds went to Philly in 2010 and it was pretty much over when they got on the plane. If they get in, it would be nice to have home field advantage; especially against a NL East team.
Right now, the Nationals are the only team in the NL that I'm genuinely afraid of and that's mostly because they've treated the Reds like a red-headed step child. I still think the Braves, Mets, and Marlins could make a run at them. Same with the Dodgers with the Giants and the D'Backs. And of course, our division is far from decided.

[cincrazy]

Right now, the Nationals are the only team in the NL that I'm genuinely afraid of and that's mostly because they've treated the Reds like a red-headed step child. I still think the Braves, Mets, and Marlins could make a run at them. Same with the Dodgers with the Giants and the D'Backs. And of course, our division is far from decided.

I tend to agree right now, but the Nationals could be a different team in October than they are now.

In 2010, the Phillies scared the daylights out of me. Nobody gives me that feeling this year. The Nationals struggle offensively, and Strasburg may not even be pitching in October. I think the Nationals would be favored versus the Reds, but I also think it'd be pretty close to a toss-up.

As for the rest of the league... the Dodgers are good, but not THIS good. The Giants, Braves, Mets and Marlins are all solid, but better than the Reds? Can't say that. With some additions at the deadline (not even necessarily a big deal, just for depth purposes) and some good luck as far as health's concerned, and this team has as much of a shot as anyone, right?

[powersackers]

Both Cards TV annoucer and the radio announcer (Mike Shannon) called the Molina hit a single before having to back track when the play was made.

That play can't be made with any runner in baseball other than a few (Molina being one of them).

That play and the game ending play were really quite a treat to watch.

[RedlegJake]

I've been saying all along those KC games against our division rivals weren't give-aways. KC is my AL team since I live very close although they aren't anywhere near my childhood team the Reds in my heart. My luck to have 2 small market teams as my favorites but I wouldn't trade my allegiance to either team whether they're winning or losing. I hate fair weather fans and KC has a ton of them. More Cardinal fans around here than Royals fans and that makes me ill. Royals have a ton of young talent and I guarantee they'll play the Cards hard and relentless.

[Tom Servo]

Royals hit into possible triple play, umps reverse it, and the Cardinals announcers are whining like there's no tomorrow.

[mbgrayson]

Royals hit into possible triple play, umps reverse it, and the Cardinals announcers are whining like there's no tomorrow.

And when I tuned in, they didn't even show a full replay. Matheny gets tossed. Royals go on to score a run in the 1st...

[KittyDuran]

Here in Cleveland... Bucs up 2-1 B3.6125

[RedlegJake]

Royals have had a great 7th still batting men on 2nd and 3rd already scored three and taken the lead 7-6. Now they're out but they have taken the lead going into the bottom of the 7th.

[RedlegJake]

Matt Holliday just tied it in bottom of 7th - 2 doubles a homer and 4 rbis for Matt today.

[RedlegJake]

crud - Molina knocks in 2 and the Cards lead 9-7 in the 7th. If the Royals ever get some pitching...Holiday does it again another double and another ribbie 10-7 in the 8th...just shoot me and put me out of my misery...thank goodness I have the Reds!!!!

[KittyDuran]

Tribe tied it up w/a Kochman's (sp?) HR.. Onto the 6th...

[KittyDuran]

Crud... McGee hits a 2 run HR and the Bucs lead the Tribe 4-2... still T6.

[RedlegJake]

Royals pitching has been horrid today walking everyone. Cards have scored 5 of their 10 runs on guys who walked. And Mat Holliday has killed them. Now its 10-7 top of ninth with Royals batting.....now its over Cards win 10-7

[KittyDuran]

And the HR parade continues... Solo from Presley. 5-2 Bucs lead. Still T7.

[KittyDuran]

Waiting to get in here in Cleveland for today's titanic struggle... Hope the rains hold off.6126

[WVRedsFan]

You can bring good luck for the Tribe for one day and one day only, Kitty :)

[redsfaninbsg]

Cardinals and Royals tied at 2 going to the 13th inning. It's a shame St. Louis has an off day tomorrow.

[fearofpopvol1]

Kansas City beats St. Louis, 5-3 in 15 innings. Pittsburgh unfortunately beat Cleveland 9-5.

[traderumor]

The Cards, both losses were in "this might not be their season" fashion. Today, Motte gave Butler a letter high fastball on an 0-2, 2 out, no one on pitch for the game tying homer. It was a thing of beauty.

[gilpdawg]

I don't know where to put this...so I'll just put it in this thread, as I don't think it merits a new thread. Atlanta is getting really shallow in their rotation, as it appears Brandon Beachy is going to need TJ Surgery.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8070325/brandon-beachy-atlanta-braves-partial-tear-elbow

[CTA513]

I was just checking out box scores and some how Harang walked 8 batters in 3 and 2/3rds innings.

:eek:

[Degenerate39]

I was just checking out box scores and some how Harang walked 8 batters in 3 and 2/3rds innings.

:eek:

Volquezesque

[Kc61]

Pirates trail by one in the bottom of the ninth. Bucs get the first man on with a walk to Alvarez.

Let's see if the Twins can shut them down and win this game.

Twins beat the Bucs, so Reds lead stays 2.5 games.

[WVRedsFan]

Cards won 3-1 over Detroit. Now 3.5 back.

[PuffyPig]

Cards lose 2-1 to Tigers in 10, now 4 back.

Our 3 game losing streak cost us 1 game, not too bad.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Cards lose 2-1 to Tigers in 10, now 4 back.

Our 3 game losing streak cost us 1 game, not too bad.

Interleague play sure has vaulted the Tigers right back into the AL Central race. They won 2 of 3 each vs. the Pirates, Reds, Rockies and Cardinals. Hopefully they keep it up for three more days in Pittsburgh.

[MikeThierry]

Cards lose 2-1 to Tigers in 10, now 4 back.

Our 3 game losing streak cost us 1 game, not too bad.

This is also encouraging for Cardinals fans. They're only 4 back with the kind of games they have been playing recently. They've only won 3 of the last 13 series yet only 4 games back. I'll take it. They're starting to get healthy and get key cogs back. Just like the Cardinals failed to put up a huge lead in March, the Reds have failed to open up a substancial gap to other teams in the division when they're on top. Should be an interesting division down the stretch.

[oregonred]

One bad series in Cleveland and the Reds went from a 96 win projection to a 90 win pace.

I still think the Reds are an 87-90 win team as currently constructed which means almost certainly the Cardinals and maybe even the pesky Pirates are likely to stay in the mix the rest of the way.

In the middle of 17 road games out of 23 before the break and 11 on the West Coast so keeping a lead into the ASB may be difficult. The Reds schedule in the second half turns much more favorable.

[MikeThierry]

One bad series in Cleveland and the Reds went from a 96 win projection to a 90 win pace.

I still think the Reds are an 87-90 win team as currently constructed which means almost certainly the Cardinals and maybe even the pesky Pirates are likely to stay in the mix the rest of the way.

In the middle of 17 road games out of 23 before the break and 11 on the West Coast so keeping a lead into the ASB may be difficult. The Reds schedule in the second half turns much more favorable.

If the Cardinals can't figure out their bullpen situation, the Reds are going to be leading at the AS break. The Cardinals starters have been doing well as of late (starter ERA since about June 6 is sub 3) but if they have a 1 run lead going into the 7th, it's almost a guarantee that the Cardinals bullpen will give it up.

[redsmetz]

If the Cardinals can't figure out their bullpen situation, the Reds are going to be leading at the AS break. The Cardinals starters have been doing well as of late (starter ERA since about June 6 is sub 3) but if they have a 1 run lead going into the 7th, it's almost a guarantee that the Cardinals bullpen will give it up.

And this is a problem why??? :D

[PuffyPig]

This is also encouraging for Cardinals fans. They're only 4 back with the kind of games they have been playing recently. They've only won 3 of the last 13 series yet only 4 games back. I'll take it. They're starting to get healthy and get key cogs back. Just like the Cardinals failed to put up a huge lead in March, the Reds have failed to open up a substancial gap to other teams in the division when they're on top. Should be an interesting division down the stretch.

Remember, the Cards had a 5 game lead in April, so the Reds have gained 9 games on them since that time. That's quite a spead.

And when did "exhibition games" count towards the season?

[MikeThierry]

Remember, the Cards had a 5 game lead in April, so the Reds have gained 9 games on them since that time. That's quite a spead.
And when did "exhibition games" count towards the season?

I meant April. Now, I have no idea what a spead is. I can play this nit picky game as well. :angry:

[traderumor]

I meant April. Now, I have no idea what a spead is. I can play this nit picky game as well. :angry:I would think that the point of losing 9 games is cause for concern. It's heading the wrong direction, even though .500 at this stage has them only 4 games out. Honestly, its starting to look more and more like the Cards and Reds will flip flop seasons between 2011 and 2012 as far as the 162 game season. Of course, that could change if the Cards get to full strength, but that may never happen. They could get two guys healthy and three others come up lame.

[oregonred]

BTW, the Pirates have almost closed the negative run differential.

I'm not to worry about the Pirates, even though the Reds are playing about .350 against them since the beginning of 2010 and even though they have a solid pitching staff, because Redszone says they aren't a real threat...

Right ;)

[traderumor]

BTW, the Pirates have almost closed the negative run differential.

I'm not to worry about the Pirates, even though the Reds are playing about .350 against them since the beginning of 2010 and even though they have a solid pitching staff, because Redszone says they aren't a real threat...

Right ;)You'll find out soon enough. Detroit at home (incl. Verlander) and then on the road to face Phillies and Cards. Their offense is hot in June. Who knows? I'm still on the skeptical side. Still no depth to survive the dog days, they'll run out of gas.

[fearofpopvol1]

Great news. Reds win and both Pittsburgh and St. Louis are down 5 runs each in the 8th innings of their games.

[Kc61]

Not that the Mets-Cubs are that relevant, but Travis Wood is pitching very well tonight, seventh inning with the Cubs up 2-0.

[Boss-Hog]

Great news. Reds win and both Pittsburgh and St. Louis are down 5 runs each in the 8th innings of their games.
Bad news: the Cardinals tied it up on a two run HR with two outs in the ninth. Let's hope the Marlins can win it in the bottom half of the inning.

[WVRedsFan]

Don't look now, but the Cards scored 4 to tie it up in the ninth...so far. Bell just gave it away.

[oneupper]

Don't look now, but the Cards scored 4 to tie it up in the ninth...so far. Bell just gave it away.

I hate when that happens.

[WVRedsFan]

Cards lead 7-6 in the 10th. Double by Furcal.

Marlins bullpen = horrible. Seven hits in three innings. Looks like both the Bucs and Cards will be 2 back.

[PuffyPig]

Cards win 8-7, Motte does his best to blow it, but the games ends when Reyes hits a rope to CF with two runners on base.

The Cards 8th run scored when the Marlins intentially walked Beltran with two outs and runners on 1st and 2nd to get to the pitchers spot (Cards were out of position players when Martheny screwed up the lineup card and Craig was tossed), and Joe Kelly got an infield hit on a slow roller.

The randomness of baseball.

[MikeThierry]

Nice to see the Cards pull it off but the bullpen is still a huge area of concern. Still, their offense is good enough to where they can come back in late innings if they need to.

[757690]

I would like to call a moratorium on celebratory posts about other teams losing before the game is over. Not to single anyone out, because this thread is for following other contending teams, but I just think giving anything more than the score tempts fate. At the very least, I would like to stay away from posts that such as, "looks like the Reds will gain a game tonight..." You're just asking for a jinx, in my opinion.

It's not that I'm superstitious, I just think it's unlucky ;)

[MikeThierry]

Puffy, on that "lineup screwup", it was actually literally the umpires fault. Here is an actual quote from Bob Davidson to Guillen: "He told me 7 (referring to how the double switch should have gone), I [screwed] it up Ozzie."

This is, once again, evidence that Bob Davidson should not be an umpire in today's game. At least he owned up to the mistake rather than do his usual "I'm bigger than the game" routine.

[WVRedsFan]

I would like to call a moratorium on celebratory posts about other teams losing before the game is over. Not to single anyone out, because this thread is for following other contending teams, but I just think giving anything more than the score tempts fate. At the very least, I would like to stay away from posts that such as, "looks like the Reds will gain a game tonight..." You're just asking for a jinx, in my opinion.

It's not that I'm superstitious, I just think it's unlucky ;)

Agreed. Big mistake.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Nice to see the Cards pull it off but the bullpen is still a huge area of concern. Still, their offense is good enough to where they can come back in late innings if they need to.

Yea, so nice to see ... warm fuzzies all around :rolleyes:

[PuffyPig]

Nice to see the Cards pull it off but the bullpen is still a huge area of concern. Still, their offense is good enough to where they can come back in late innings if they need to.

So, how many times have they come back in the 9th inning to win one this year?

I believe that was their first win this year when they trailed going into the 9th.

I guess they just haven't "needed to" this year.

[PuffyPig]

I would like to call a moratorium on celebratory posts about other teams losing before the game is over. Not to single anyone out, because this thread is for following other contending teams, but I just think giving anything more than the score tempts fate. At the very least, I would like to stay away from posts that such as, "looks like the Reds will gain a game tonight..." You're just asking for a jinx, in my opinion.

It's not that I'm superstitious, I just think it's unlucky ;)

I think you are being more than a little silly.

If posters want to post "it looks like X will lose tonight" surely there is no harm to that.

[757690]

I think you are being more than a little silly.

If posters want to post "it looks like X will lose tonight" surely there is no harm to that.

Yes, it's very silly of me to make such a request. I do not expect it to be followed.

But I disagree that there's no harm in tempting fate.

In 1985 I was watching the sixth game of the World Series with some friends, one of whom is a Cardinal fan. He had bought a bottle of Champagne to celebrate the Cards winning that night. He had a few too many Budweisers during the game, and at the bottom of the 9th inning, with the Cards up 1-0 on the Royals, he declared them World Champions, broke open the bottle of Champagne, and started drinking it.

To this day, I am convinced that had he not done that, Don Denkinger would have correctly called Jorge Orta out at first in that inning and the Cardinals would have won the World Series that year. ;)

[757690]

Agreed. Big mistake.

You only posted that the Cards were catching up tonight, so no mistake on your part.

And I'm not calling anyone out personally, no one really did it tonight. And lots of posters have done it throughout this thread, I probably have even done it before. I just think we should be careful, at least until the Reds get a comfortable lead in the division.

[fearofpopvol1]

I would like to call a moratorium on celebratory posts about other teams losing before the game is over. Not to single anyone out, because this thread is for following other contending teams, but I just think giving anything more than the score tempts fate. At the very least, I would like to stay away from posts that such as, "looks like the Reds will gain a game tonight..." You're just asking for a jinx, in my opinion.

It's not that I'm superstitious, I just think it's unlucky ;)

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, though I assume so based on the posts, but I never said the Marlins had it wrapped up or anything. I didn't post what their hypothetical record would be or anything. I just said it was good news that the Cards were down 5 late.

To be honest, I thought the Marlins being up 5 in the 8th was going to be enough.

[MikeThierry]

So, how many times have they come back in the 9th inning to win one this year?

I believe that was their first win this year when they trailed going into the 9th.

I guess they just haven't "needed to" this year.

Late innings, to me at least, indicate 7th inning on. It isn't just the 9th. You're right that this is the first time they've come back in the 9th but they have come back from the 7th inning on several occasions. I wish I would get more of a substantive conversation from you in this forum rather than your usual snark. It's getting really, really annoying.

[757690]

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, though I assume so based on the posts, but I never said the Marlins had it wrapped up or anything. I didn't post what their hypothetical record would be or anything. I just said it was good news that the Cards were down 5 late.

To be honest, I thought the Marlins being up 5 in the 8th was going to be enough.

It wasn't. Sorry if it looked that way. As I said in a later post, no one did it tonight, but I have seen it many times before. Anyway, I was just being silly, trying to lighten up some bad news.

[PuffyPig]

Late innings, to me at least, indicate 7th inning on. It isn't just the 9th. You're right that this is the first time they've come back in the 9th but they have come back from the 7th inning on several occasions. I wish I would get more of a substantive conversation from you in this forum rather than your usual snark. It's getting really, really annoying.



Sorry if you found it snarky, but I found your celebratory post sugggestling the Cards can basically come back at will in the late innings as inaccurate, especially when they have blown way more late inning leads than made comebacks over the same time period. Perhaps you could have posted some substantive examples of their comebacks at that time.

But I quickly (so I may have missed something) checked, but I think that last night was just the second time all year that the Cards have come back in a game that they trailed after 6 innings. They had an earlier game vs. the Pads on May 21 that they came back when trailing 1-0 after 6 innings, though they also blew an 8th inning lead that time before scoing 2 in the bottom of the 8th to win. I do know they've lost way more than that in games they were winning after 6.

I'm guessing there are some other games they may have led or been tied after 6 that they ultimately won even if they blew the win/tie.

But I don't think you could suggest they've been the "cardiac Cards" this year, but those things tend to be cyclical and random, so that could change quickly.

The Cards likely used up a century of comebacks in the world series last year. They've got a lot of payback to give back.

BTW, Bell looked like he had nothing out there. And in the first year of his contract. He's likely injured I would think.

[traderumor]

Here's the thing about closers. You think "wow, Bell has just fallen off a cliff" because his early struggles were well chronicled. But then I look and he had not given up a run in nearly a month prior to last night. He had gone 10 straight appearances without allowing a run.

[PuffyPig]

Here's the thing about closers. You think "wow, Bell has just fallen off a cliff" because his early struggles were well chronicled. But then I look and he had not given up a run in nearly a month prior to last night. He had gone 10 straight appearances without allowing a run.

Thanks, I'm shocked at that, I guess I hadn't noticed. He sure looked bad last night.

[oneupper]

Here's the thing about closers. You think "wow, Bell has just fallen off a cliff" because his early struggles were well chronicled. But then I look and he had not given up a run in nearly a month prior to last night. He had gone 10 straight appearances without allowing a run.

He picked a bad day to give up...runs! :)

[MikeThierry]

Should Bob Davidson be fined or suspended?

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19422514/ump-bob-davidson-screws-up-royally-in-cards-marlins-game

[PuffyPig]

Should Bob Davidson be fined or suspended?

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19422514/ump-bob-davidson-screws-up-royally-in-cards-marlins-game

Or maybe simply "retired"....

[MikeThierry]

Or maybe simply "retired"....

That would be the best option.

[cumberlandreds]

Should Bob Davidson be fined or suspended?

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19422514/ump-bob-davidson-screws-up-royally-in-cards-marlins-game (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19422514/ump-bob-davidson-screws-up-royally-in-cards-marlins-game)

Wasn't Davidson suspended earlier this year for screwing up something else? He shoulld be retired and should have been a long time ago.

[MikeThierry]

Wasn't Davidson suspended earlier this year for screwing up something else? He shoulld be retired and should have been a long time ago.

Yeah, he was suspended a game for something.

Tonight, you will have Zambrano, Guillen, and Bob Davidson all on the same field at once. Is it possible that the nexus of the universe is in Miami tonight?

[Tom Servo]

Pirates lose again, Cardinals win again.

[10xWSChamps]

You only posted that the Cards were catching up tonight, so no mistake on your part.

And I'm not calling anyone out personally, no one really did it tonight. And lots of posters have done it throughout this thread, I probably have even done it before. I just think we should be careful, at least until the Reds get a comfortable lead in the division.

I don't understand this thinking. I'm not trying to make fun of you here, honestly, but do you really think something like that has an impact on the game? What force in the universe controls that?

I'm agnostic myself, but even if one believed in a current god that is worshipped do they believe that he is monitoring things like this? If someone isnt a believer in any god, what kind of scientific force controls setting like that?

I think you're giving humans waaaaay too much credit here. To suggest that we cAn control something just by making a remark is pretty much saying we have godly powers or that there is some force out there like gravity that is monitoring things and it controls what happens in the universe. The latter seems outlandishly silly.

[VR]

I don't understand this thinking. I'm not trying to make fun of you here, honestly, but do you really think something like that has an impact on the game? What force in the universe controls that?

I'm agnostic myself, but even if one believed in a current god that is worshipped do they believe that he is monitoring things like this? If someone isnt a believer in any god, what kind of scientific force controls setting like that?

I think you're giving humans waaaaay too much credit here. To suggest that we cAn control something just by making a remark is pretty much saying we have godly powers or that there is some force out there like gravity that is monitoring things and it controls what happens in the universe. The latter seems outlandishly silly.

Really?

[757690]

I don't understand this thinking. I'm not trying to make fun of you here, honestly, but do you really think something like that has an impact on the game? What force in the universe controls that?

I'm agnostic myself, but even if one believed in a current god that is worshipped do they believe that he is monitoring things like this? If someone isnt a believer in any god, what kind of scientific force controls setting like that?

I think you're giving humans waaaaay too much credit here. To suggest that we cAn control something just by making a remark is pretty much saying we have godly powers or that there is some force out there like gravity that is monitoring things and it controls what happens in the universe. The latter seems outlandishly silly.

I will quote myself in response to your questions ;)


Yes, it's very silly of me to make such a request. I do not expect it to be followed.

But I disagree that there's no harm in tempting fate.

In 1985 I was watching the sixth game of the World Series with some friends, one of whom is a Cardinal fan. He had bought a bottle of Champagne to celebrate the Cards winning that night. He had a few too many Budweisers during the game, and at the bottom of the 9th inning, with the Cards up 1-0 on the Royals, he declared them World Champions, broke open the bottle of Champagne, and started drinking it.

To this day, I am convinced that had he not done that, Don Denkinger would have correctly called Jorge Orta out at first in that inning and the Cardinals would have won the World Series that year. ;)

[10xWSChamps]

I find the idea of karma or fate to be outlandishly silly. Do people honestly think there's a scientific force out there like gravity?

Or is it a belief in a god that is monitoring things?

This god and/or scientific force must use an extremely complex mathematical formula when it's monitoring the thoughts of hundreds Of thousands of fans and punishing the most optimistic fan base. I'm a man of science and one of my two majors, in a years time, will be applied math. I love calculus and statistics and the thought of trying to use such a formula scares even me!

IMO the idea of fate and karma are centuries outdated. I can only imagine a believer of this never took statistics in college.

[757690]

I find the idea of karma or fate to be outlandishly silly. Do people honestly think there's a scientific force out there like gravity?

Or is it a belief in a god that is monitoring things?

This god and/or scientific force must use an extremely complex mathematical formula when it's monitoring the thoughts of hundreds Of thousands of fans and punishing the most optimistic fan base. I'm a man of science and one of my two majors, in a years time, will be applied math. I love calculus and statistics and the thought of trying to use such a formula scares even me!

IMO the idea of fate and karma are centuries outdated. I can only imagine a believer of this never took statistics in college.

Well, if your fellow Cardinal fan back in 1985 believed in these forces, your Cardinals would have one more ring ;)

[10xWSChamps]

I will quote myself in response to your questions ;)

What about a game that goes back and forth and both fan bases say the same thing. Shouldn't a game like that never end? Haha.

I'm probably being too serious here. I just don't see how a comment could effect a game being played hundreds of miles away!

[Brutus]

I find the idea of karma or fate to be outlandishly silly. Do people honestly think there's a scientific force out there like gravity?

Or is it a belief in a god that is monitoring things?

This god and/or scientific force must use an extremely complex mathematical formula when it's monitoring the thoughts of hundreds Of thousands of fans and punishing the most optimistic fan base. I'm a man of science and one of my two majors, in a years time, will be applied math. I love calculus and statistics and the thought of trying to use such a formula scares even me!

IMO the idea of fate and karma are centuries outdated. I can only imagine a believer of this never took statistics in college.

http://www.weekendcontent.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/10/Darth-Vader-I-FIND-YOUR-LACK-OF-FAITH-DISTURBING.jpg

[gilpdawg]

I get annoyed when people say "don't mention the no hitter." Mentioning it doesn't cause a hit, and I try to mention it every chance I get. It's the little things that bring me joy. :p

[10xWSChamps]

Well, if your fellow Cardinal fan back in 1985 believed in these forces, your Cardinals would have one more ring ;)

Let's extrapolate on this line of thinking.

Teams like the Cardinals and Tankees have Had loads of success. We have the most WS wins in the MLB. I imagine we have some of the most confident fan bases. I think the Yankees are easily the most cocky fan base. So why are both teams still constantly in contention and doing well?

And on the flip side of that coin, shouldnt a team like the Pirates, who probably have the least optimistic fan base, be doing better?

It's not luck or fate or karma, it's just skill and statistics!

[10xWSChamps]

I get annoyed when people say "don't mention the no hitter." Mentioning it doesn't cause a hit, and I try to mention it every chance I get. It's the little things that bring me joy. :p

Haha +1!!

[Homer Bailey]

Can someone start a Cardinal-less scoreboard watching thread?

[10xWSChamps]

Can someone start a Cardinal-less scoreboard watching thread?

Should I not be in this thread? Honest question, don't want to over step my boundaries. I appreciate being let into the ORG so I'll stay away if so. But I didn't comment on my team here. I don't brag about the Cards at all on this board. I Ben stayed away from the Sun Deck last year during and right after the world series for the most part.

As for the thread itself, wouldn't the Cards be one of the most important teams for Reds fans to scoreboard-watch?

[The Operator]

I find the idea of karma or fate to be outlandishly silly. Do people honestly think there's a scientific force out there like gravity?

Or is it a belief in a god that is monitoring things?

This god and/or scientific force must use an extremely complex mathematical formula when it's monitoring the thoughts of hundreds Of thousands of fans and punishing the most optimistic fan base. I'm a man of science and one of my two majors, in a years time, will be applied math. I love calculus and statistics and the thought of trying to use such a formula scares even me!

IMO the idea of fate and karma are centuries outdated. I can only imagine a believer of this never took statistics in college.Are you trying to say no one who studies high-level science fields can believe in fate or a higher power? I myself am not a mathematician but I did graduate with an Electrical Engineering Degree which of course means I had to take lots and lots of math - every calculus class that's offered, statistics, differential equations, linear algebra, numerical methods, etc. And I must have had decent enough grades because I got into a pretty decent grad school as well.

That being said, I think there is such a thing as fate and I believe in God. I don't think anyone can affect the outcome of sporting events by their words, that's just a superstition in my book. But I don't think it's fair to say no one who takes advanced coursework like that should believe in such a thing. It is possible to be a scientist and still have faith.

[Homer Bailey]

Really?


Should I not be in this thread? Honest question, don't want to over step my boundaries. I appreciate being let into the ORG so I'll stay away if so. But I didn't comment on my team here. I don't brag about the Cards at all on this board. I Ben stayed away from the Sun Deck last year during and right after the world series for the most part.

As for the thread itself, wouldn't the Cards be one of the most important teams for Reds fans to scoreboard-watch?


Let's extrapolate on this line of thinking.

Teams like the Cardinals and Tankees have Had loads of success. We have the most WS wins in the MLB. I imagine we have some of the most confident fan bases. I think the Yankees are easily the most cocky fan base. So why are both teams still constantly in contention and doing well?

And on the flip side of that coin, shouldnt a team like the Pirates, who probably have the least optimistic fan base, be doing better?

It's not luck or fate or karma, it's just skill and statistics!

[757690]

I find the idea of karma or fate to be outlandishly silly. Do people honestly think there's a scientific force out there like gravity?

Or is it a belief in a god that is monitoring things?

This god and/or scientific force must use an extremely complex mathematical formula when it's monitoring the thoughts of hundreds Of thousands of fans and punishing the most optimistic fan base. I'm a man of science and one of my two majors, in a years time, will be applied math. I love calculus and statistics and the thought of trying to use such a formula scares even me!

IMO the idea of fate and karma are centuries outdated. I can only imagine a believer of this never took statistics in college.

The math says you should believe in God ;)

http://thechaoscosmos.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/pascals-wager-11.png

[10xWSChamps]

Are you trying to say no one who studies high-level science fields can believe in fate or a higher power? I myself am not a mathematician but I did graduate with an Electrical Engineering Degree which of course means I had to take lots and lots of math - every calculus class that's offered, statistics, differential equations, linear algebra, numerical methods, etc. And I must have had decent enough grades because I got into a pretty decent grad school as well.

That being said, I think there is such a thing as fate and I believe in God. I don't think anyone can affect the outcome of sporting events by their words, that's just a superstition in my book. But I don't think it's fair to say no one who takes advanced coursework like that should believe in such a thing. It is possible to be a scientist and still have faith.

A higher power? Not at all. I said I was agnostic, not atheist, on purpose. I believe there's something out there but certainly not anything we as humans know about. I think the beauty and symmetry in high level math shows that there is something out there. I went into college an atheist but as I learn more in the way of science it makes me believe more and more that there has to be something out there. It just doesn't have to do with Jesus or Mohammad and I doubt we'll ever find out until entropy reaches it max point in the universe and all the stars and life die off.

But luck and fate and karma seem like such a humanistic thought. It's one baseball game being played in one state in one country on one planet among the billions of planets in our galaxy among the billions of galaxies in our universe. Whatever is out there I doubt it cares about a baseball game.

[10xWSChamps]

Really?

You know, you are right but it wasn't intentional. I was just trying to make a point. You could go through my posts and find little bragging. I'm sorry I should have worded that better or left the Cardinals out of that entirely. Sorry again.

[10xWSChamps]

The math says you should believe in God ;)

http://thechaoscosmos.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/pascals-wager-11.png

Haha, I like that! A funny way to look at it and refute my point :)

[Big Klu]

The math says you should believe in God ;)

http://thechaoscosmos.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/pascals-wager-11.png

Or in statistics language: If you make a Type II error on this, then you're in big trouble.

[Boss-Hog]

Let's get this thread back on track, please. If you want to start a new thread that discusses karma, superstition, etc., please start a new thread.

[MikeThierry]

Let's get this thread back on track, please. If you want to start a new thread that discusses karma, superstition, etc., please start a new thread.

Totally agree. If I want a discourse in metaphysics, I'll go to a lecture hall at the college I go to.

[RedlegJake]

Should I not be in this thread? Honest question, don't want to over step my boundaries. I appreciate being let into the ORG so I'll stay away if so. But I didn't comment on my team here. I don't brag about the Cards at all on this board. I Ben stayed away from the Sun Deck last year during and right after the world series for the most part.

As for the thread itself, wouldn't the Cards be one of the most important teams for Reds fans to scoreboard-watch?

For myself you are most definitely welcome in any thread as long as you are respectful that you are in "enemy" territoy LOL. I wish we had more posters from other teams here that were thoughtful and respectful and we could get into discussions with people who know their players as well as we know our Reds. In the past we've had many jerks - one of the reasons the SunDeck/ORG split happened (just one of them but it was a factor I think). Visitors from the Cardinal Nation are welcome in my book. Besides I live in your territory (should be Royals area but there are more Cards fans than Royals up here in Saint Jo).

[MikeThierry]

For myself you are most definitely welcome in any thread as long as you are respectful that you are in "enemy" territoy LOL. I wish we had more posters from other teams here that were thoughtful and respectful and we could get into discussions with people who know their players as well as we know our Reds. In the past we've had many jerks - one of the reasons the SunDeck/ORG split happened (just one of them but it was a factor I think). Visitors from the Cardinal Nation are welcome in my book. Besides I live in your territory (should be Royals area but there are more Cards fans than Royals up here in Saint Jo).

I dont think people in Kansas City even follow the Royals....

[OesterPoster]

Notable injuries...Andre Ethier out with strained oblique and Daniel Hudson out with UCL tear.

[VottoFan54]

Notable injuries...Andre Ethier out with strained oblique and Daniel Hudson out with UCL tear.

Andy Pettitte is out with a fractured left ankle, he will be out for at least 6 weeks.

[fearofpopvol1]

Anyone check the box score of the Cubs/Mets game? If you're bummed about the Reds loss today or just having a bad day, checking this score should cheer you up.

[kaldaniels]

Forget karma/God when discussing these jinxes, the issue is now twitter. With many of you "involved" with Dallas Latos on twitter, it just takes one person to relay a jinx post to her, and she certainly has devised a way to get info to Mat during games,who could could then report to say, Bronson last night, that the no-hit bid is fruitless because RedsZone is discussing it. Not to mention RedZoners at the park who could shout said info down to the field as well. Don't you miss the good old days?

Yes, I'm joking.

[kaldaniels]

Wow, Jeff Samarjzja's ERA over 5 now, after his dominant start. I believe one of the experts even took him in the first round of one of those franchise drafts a month or so back. Oops.

[Tom Servo]

Chase Utley homered in his first at-bat of the season.

[kaldaniels]

Chase Utley homered in his first at-bat of the season.

In his chat today, Dave Cameron said Utley has no chance at being in the HOF, and even acknowledged he is only 10 WAR behind Ryno. No chance seems a little much at this point.

[MikeThierry]

The Gas Can Gang gives up the lead and the Marlins win. Cards remain 2 back of the Reds in the ever growing exciting battle for mediocrity in the Central Division.

[kaldaniels]

The Gas Can Gang gives up the lead and the Marlins win. Cards remain 2 back of the Reds in the ever growing exciting battle for mediocrity in the Central Division.

Give them (and us) more credit. The top 7 teams in the NL all have between 40 and 43 wins. It's gonna be a dogfight.

[MikeThierry]

Give them (and us) more credit. The top 7 teams in the NL all have between 40 and 43 wins. It's gonna be a dogfight.

That's a pretty good point. There has not been a dominant team in baseball this year. You could make an argument for the Rangers but they've had some problems.

[blumj]

I haven't seen that many Tigers games, but, from the ones I have seen, their defense is so frightful that Miguel Cabrera playing 3rd looks like one of their good fielders.

[10xWSChamps]

Damn the Cubs are bad, it was a comedy watching them for a few innings today


For myself you are most definitely welcome in any thread as long as you are respectful that you are in "enemy" territoy LOL. I wish we had more posters from other teams here that were thoughtful and respectful and we could get into discussions with people who know their players as well as we know our Reds. In the past we've had many jerks - one of the reasons the SunDeck/ORG split happened (just one of them but it was a factor I think). Visitors from the Cardinal Nation are welcome in my book. Besides I live in your territory (should be Royals area but there are more Cards fans than Royals up here in Saint Jo).

Thanks, I will definitely try to always be respectful. I wont be afraid to defend the Cards but I'll never be overzealous about it and won't pick fights


Let's get this thread back on track, please. If you want to start a new thread that discusses karma, superstition, etc., please start a new thread.

Sorry! Got carried away.Started on baseball then evolved into something else :laugh:

[reds44]

RT @LanceMcAlister: Dusty says rolen over Frazier at 4 because Rolen knows how deal w/ teams walking votto.

Somebody explain this one to me.

[redsmetz]

RT @LanceMcAlister: Dusty says rolen over Frazier at 4 because Rolen knows how deal w/ teams walking votto.

Somebody explain this one to me.

As a veteran, he's not going to be so anxious about "getting it done" as a young player like Frazier might be. I suspect that's what he's getting at.

[fearofpopvol1]

Cards had the day off and Pirates beat the Phillies in a close one. Sadly. Reds are now 1 up on Pittsburgh and 1.5 up on the Cards.

[Kc61]

Cards and Pirates squaring off tonight. Unfortunately for the Reds, the Cards are beginning a ten game home stand tonight. Just as the Reds are playing on the left coast.

My view is that Reds fans should root for the Bucs, even though they are slightly ahead of the Cards in the standings. Every game the Cards lose on this long home stand is a plus.

Drew Sutton is leading off for the Pirates tonight.

Bucs take an early two run lead. Now 2-1 Pirates in the second.

[PuffyPig]

My view is that Reds fans should root for the Bucs, even though they are slightly ahead of the Cards in the standings.

Considering the fact the Bucs have pretty much zero chance to win the division, and the Cards are very good, I'll take that advice.

[757690]

Considering the fact the Bucs have pretty much zero chance to win the division, and the Cards are very good, I'll take that advice.

Both are seriously flawed teams. Cards have a well below average bullpen and mediocre starting staff, while the Bucs have virtually no offense besides McCutchen. Add in that the Cards are very old, and likely to become even more inured as the season progresses, amd I really can't see them as a more of a long term threat to win the division than the Bucs.

I'm rooting for them to split the games they play against each other.

[Kc61]

Cards with a threat in the third. Table setters on first and third, no out, middle of the order up. Holliday fans. Beltran singles, his 2,000 major league hit. Rally still going, tied at 2.

[Kc61]

Allen Craig homers. Three run lead for Cards. Will check back later.

P.S. Cards have some flaws, but they have a very well balanced offense and are reaping big dividends from the Beltran signing. They are going to be tough.

[757690]

Allen Craig homers. Three run lead for Cards. Will check back later.

P.S. Cards have some flaws, but they have a very well balanced offense and are reaping big dividends from the Beltran signing. They are going to be tough.

I agree. I just think the Bucs will be just as tough.

Btw, they just tied the Cards 5-5.

[Kc61]

Pirates tie it up at five. Alvarez with a bases loaded double. Fifth inning.

[Kc61]

I agree. I just think the Bucs will be just as tough.

Btw, they just tied the Cards 5-5.

Five five tie, middle fifth inning.

I can't judge how well the Bucs will do eventually. I hate to pick against a team with very good pitching, and the Bucs do have that. If the Cards are healthy, I fear them a bit more.

In any event, I'm rooting for the Pirates here because the Cards have a long home stand and I'd prefer they don't go 8-2 or something like that on the stand.

Of course, it would help matters if the Reds have a decent west coast road trip.

[Kc61]

Pirates lead by a run on a homer by Barmes in the sixth.

[blumj]

When in doubt, I believe the correct answer is to root for lots of extra innings with many long at bats and multiple rain delays.

[Kc61]

Presley makes it back to back, the Pirates up 7-5 with Wainright still in there. Looks like Cards are going to the pen.

I'm swinging over to the Reds game thread shortly.

[VR]

Let's get this thread back on track, please. If you want to start a new thread that discusses karma, superstition, etc., please start a new thread.

Great.....Boss just jinxed the whole thread.

(sorry boss, couldn't resist)

[PuffyPig]

Great.....Boss just jinxed the whole thread.

(sorry boss, couldn't resist)

This tread needed to be jinxed. Cards winning way to often lately.

Waino is 50-1 when getting 5 or more runs.

He's down 9-5 right now as Sanchez is being, well Sanchez. Pigpen not helping Cards all season.

[Tornon]

Aaron Hill hit for the cycle again tonight.. 2nd time he's done that in a 2 week span

[VR]

Aaron Hill hit for the cycle again tonight.. 2nd time he's done that in a 2 week span

pretty amazing career turnaround since he's been in Arizona

[MikeThierry]

This tread needed to be jinxed. Cards winning way to often lately.

Waino is 50-1 when getting 5 or more runs.

He's down 9-5 right now as Sanchez is being, well Sanchez. Pigpen not helping Cards all season.

Come on Puffy, get with the program!!! In honor of a great team from the 1930's, I've dubbed the 2012 version of the Cardinals "bullpen", The Gas Can Gang.

[Playadlc]

McCutchen is a flat stud. 4/5 tonight with a HR and 3 RBI's. He alone might make the Pirates offense good enough to stay in this thing.

[MikeThierry]

McCutchen is a flat stud. 4/5 tonight with a HR and 3 RBI's. He alone might make the Pirates offense good enough to stay in this thing.

That or face the Cardinals bullpen on a nightly basis....

[Tornon]

Pedro Alvarez is destroying the Cardinals again, Pirates are up 4-0 in the 1st

[_Sir_Charles_]

Pedro Alvarez is destroying the Cardinals again, Pirates are up 4-0 in the 1st

Alvarez is the Pirates version of Jay Bruce. When he's "on" he can carry that team. But he's so hot/cold this early in his career. Mostly cold. I still think he's just too talented to not improve.

[757690]

Pedro Alvarez is destroying the Cardinals again, Pirates are up 4-0 in the 1st

Lynn coming back to earth. He'll probably make the All-Star team, but he better enjoy it, it's probably the only time he ever goes.

Can anyone say, "Jack Armstrong."

[PuffyPig]

Lynn coming back to earth. He'll probably make the All-Star team, but he better enjoy it, it's probably the only time he ever goes.

Can anyone say, "Jack Armstrong."

When someone asked larussa about who would satrt the alls tar game between Dickey and cain, he threwout the names of "Lynn" and "Wainwright" as also under consdieration.

Wainwright?

BTW, Waino is now 50-2 when his team gets him 5 runs or more.

And the Reds are 27-2 when Stubbs acores a run.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Lynn coming back to earth. He'll probably make the All-Star team, but he better enjoy it, it's probably the only time he ever goes.

Can anyone say, "Jack Armstrong."

I'm not so sure he makes it anymore. There are just sooooo many starting pitchers having excellent years. His era is working its way to 4.00 rather quickly.

[757690]

I'm not so sure he makes it anymore. There are just sooooo many starting pitchers having excellent years. His era is working its way to 4.00 rather quickly.

TRL decides, so I betting he will, even if his ERA is over 4.00.

[Playadlc]

I am actually surprised Lynn kept it up for this long. He was beating his K-rate in the minors by 2 Ks per nine (which is a large difference, not that I need to tell you guys this) and his Triple-A ERA was around 4.

[_Sir_Charles_]

TRL decides, so I betting he will, even if his ERA is over 4.00.

LaRussa is a jerk, there's no doubt. But he still has to answer to the media. I don't see him doing it if he can't at least marginally justify the choice.

Lynn is around 25th in ERA
2nd in W's
10th in K's
23rd in WHIP

Other than W's, there's no way he's deserving for a nod.

And the W's...Lynn's leading the NL in run support. 9.39 runs per game. Second in 8.14 per game (Mike Minor) then Latos with 7.82.

[PuffyPig]

LaRussa is a jerk, there's no doubt. But he still has to answer to the media. I don't see him doing it if he can't at least marginally justify the choice.

Lynn is around 25th in ERA
2nd in W's
10th in K's
23rd in WHIP

Other than W's, there's no way he's deserving for a nod.

And the W's...Lynn's leading the NL in run support. 9.39 runs per game. Second in 8.14 per game (Mike Minor) then Latos with 7.82.

Larussa is considering starting Wainwright in the all star game, with an ERA of 4.75. He could care less about answering to anyone, other than perhaps that bottle of wine he keeps under the front seat.

[Kc61]

Pirates up 6-2 on the Cards.

Are we SURE the Pirates have no chance in the division?

[fearofpopvol1]

Pirates up 6-2 on the Cards.

Are we SURE the Pirates have no chance in the division?

The interesting thing was for a while their run differential was in the negative range. Last night, it went positive for the first time. They've been trending up for a while. However, they still have been playing above their pythag. The Reds and Cards both are significantly better in this department than the Pirates as of now. The Cards should have the best record by a longshot, so we should enjoy these beatings the Pirates are putting on them for now.

It's hard to say if the Pirates have peaked or not. I still don't think they have the bats to win the division (without a trade), but I think they do have a shot at the wildcard, especially with other teams being so weak this year.

[Scrap Irony]

They have the minor league arms to get a few bats, if need be.

Jameson Tailion would probably net just about any hitter now on the trade market by himself.

[PuffyPig]

Pirates up 6-2 on the Cards.

Are we SURE the Pirates have no chance in the division?

Pirates are clearly better than some of us (read me) were giving them credit for.

Still, I hope they beat the Cards tomorrow, as they are the more dangerous opponent. If we win our 90 games I doubt the Pirates will top that.

[mth123]

Pirates are clearly better than some of us (read me) were giving them credit for.

Still, I hope they beat the Cards tomorrow, as they are the more dangerous opponent. If we win our 90 games I doubt the Pirates will top that.

Agreed.

[oregonred]

Pirates put together a great June. + 36 run differential. 17-10 record

Reds were solid at +19 (15-12)
Cards back to Earth at -9 (13-14)

Reds left a couple wins on the table for sure in June which kept a solid month from being a great one. The bats came around and the pitching was solid. Definitely a missed opportunity with the bad run last week and Chapman's issues alone cost the team 3-4 additional wins.

FWIW, ESPN now has the Pirates upto a 60.0% playoff probability, the Reds are at 64.3%. The Dodgers meltdown is helping the Pirates and the rest of the NL contenders. Assuming the Giants, with that killer pitching staff, take firm control of the NL West going forward then each of the NL Central and NL East are looking strong to grab the other two wild cards.

[cincrazy]

Pirates put together a great June. + 36 run differential. 17-10 record

Reds were solid at +19 (15-12)
Cards back to Earth at -9 (13-14)

Reds left a couple wins on the table for sure in June which kept a solid month from being a great one. The bats came around and the pitching was solid. Definitely a missed opportunity with the bad run last week and Chapman's issues alone cost the team 3-4 additional wins.

FWIW, ESPN now has the Pirates upto a 60.0% playoff probability, the Reds are at 64.3%. The Dodgers meltdown is helping the Pirates and the rest of the NL contenders. Assuming the Giants, with that killer pitching staff, take firm control of the NL West going forward then each of the NL Central and NL East are looking strong to grab the other two wild cards.

I think a Wild Card is coming out of the Central for sure. The Dodgers magic carpet ride is finished. I think the Giants are the only team to come out of the West, although I wouldn't completely rule out the Dbacks yet the more I think about it.

In the East, I don't give the Marlins, Mets, or Phillies much of a shot. I think the Pirates and Cards are better than all three of those teams. The Braves, if I had to guess, will end up with one of the WC spots, and a team from the Central with the other.

The Reds are in a good spot. 1.5 back of the top record in the NL. Maybe this sounds crazy, but do we really want to be the top seed? The top seed opens with two games on the road in the first round this year.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Don't overlook the big question concerning the Pirates....Andrew McCutchen's injured wrist. Yesterday diving for a ball in center. If he's out for any extended period it kills them more than if we lost Votto.

[cincrazy]

Don't overlook the big question concerning the Pirates....Andrew McCutchen's injured wrist. Yesterday diving for a ball in center. If he's out for any extended period it kills them more than if we lost Votto.

He said on Twitter that he's fine. He may miss a day or two, but I don't think it is anything more serious than Votto's injury. With that being said, it is a wrist injury. So perhaps it will linger longer.

[BCubb2003]

I think a Wild Card is coming out of the Central for sure. The Dodgers magic carpet ride is finished. I think the Giants are the only team to come out of the West, although I wouldn't completely rule out the Dbacks yet the more I think about it.

In the East, I don't give the Marlins, Mets, or Phillies much of a shot. I think the Pirates and Cards are better than all three of those teams. The Braves, if I had to guess, will end up with one of the WC spots, and a team from the Central with the other.

The Reds are in a good spot. 1.5 back of the top record in the NL. Maybe this sounds crazy, but do we really want to be the top seed? The top seed opens with two games on the road in the first round this year.

It's odd, because everyone was saying how weak the NL Central was this year and this was the Reds' big chance.

[_Sir_Charles_]

He said on Twitter that he's fine. He may miss a day or two, but I don't think it is anything more serious than Votto's injury. With that being said, it is a wrist injury. So perhaps it will linger longer.

Thanks for the update. I hadn't read anything yet.

[_Sir_Charles_]

It's odd, because everyone was saying how weak the NL Central was this year and this was the Reds' big chance.

That's because the media did exactly what most people here have done...automatically write off the Pirates because they are the Pirates. Gotta look a bit deeper than "they're the Pirates".

They've also got 2 top flight pitching prospects too which could easily bring back a big bat if they wanted to. I think they'd be better off holding onto the pitchers though.

[oregonred]

It's odd, because everyone was saying how weak the NL Central was this year and this was the Reds' big chance.

I always thought the Central was good for a wildcard and two teams but that was largely since the NL East is going to beat themselves up the rest of the way. I'd be surprised to see more than two NL East teams emerge with more than 85-86 wins. The NL East is clearly the best division

The D-Backs could be in the WC mix getting to beat up on the Rockies, Padres and the suddenly average Dodgers the rest of the way.

[PuffyPig]

Cards had jumped out to a 3-0 lead over the Pirates, but the Pirates score 4 in the 4th, now up 4-3.

[MikeThierry]

Erik Bedard is one of the slowest pitchers I have ever seen. If there's any good reason for the umps to bring out the timing rule, now's the time.

[757690]

Trying to root for the Cards. Very painful, not sure I can do it. :barf:

[fearofpopvol1]

Trying to root for the Cards. Very painful, not sure I can do it. :barf:

I'm still rooting for the Pirates. Even though it probably would be better for the standings if the Pirates won, I still fear the Cardinals more than I do the Pirates.

[Vottomatic]

Pirates up 4-2 in the 5th.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Pirates won 6-4. They own the best record in the NL over the past month...and we're now looking UP at them in the standings. Anybody who said that we could just "ignore" the Pirates are deluding themselves.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Pirates won 6-4. They own the best record in the NL over the past month...and we're now looking UP at them in the standings. Anybody who said that we could just "ignore" the Pirates are deluding themselves.

They're not going anywhere anytime soon ... they play the Astros a ton in July.

That being said, weren't they in first place last July also?

[Brutus]

Pirates won 6-4. They own the best record in the NL over the past month...and we're now looking UP at them in the standings. Anybody who said that we could just "ignore" the Pirates are deluding themselves.

I don't think anyone was deluding themselves at the time. I was skeptical of the Pirates like a lot of people were, and I admit now I was probably wrong. But at the time, the Pirates' record was a heck of a lot better than they were actually playing.

They're playing terrific baseball now that their offense has picked up. I think they're legit, but at the time, it wasn't exactly a stretch to suggest they weren't as good as their record. Their offense was abysmal and there wasn't a lot of history to suggest some of their pitching would continue as it has.

[reds44]

Pirates were 47-43 before the break last year, 25-47 after.

[_Sir_Charles_]

They're not going anywhere anytime soon ... they play the Astros a ton in July.

That being said, weren't they in first place last July also?

Different team. Pitching is MUCH better this season. That alone will allow them to hang much longer.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Pirates were 47-43 before the break last year, 25-47 after.

True. I'm not saying that they might not still turn into a pumpkin. But look at their roster compared to last year. Just the pitching has seen some notable changes. This is NOT last year's Pirates.

[powersackers]

I just hope there's a little bit of panick in our front office this afternoon.

[PuffyPig]

I just hope there's a little bit of panick in our front office this afternoon.

Panic + trade deadline = bad choices.

[Kc61]

Not concerned about the Pirates or any other team at this stage.

Reds IMO are better than their record. With the kind of starting pitching they are getting they should have a better record. They need to improve the offense to make this happen.

That's my concern. If Votto is healthy and the team makes one or two necessary changes on offense, in the end we should beat the Pirates.

Too soon to worry about standings unless the gap becomes substantial.

[cumberlandreds]

If the Pirates keep hitting like they have been since June they are going to be tough to beat. They could fade like last year but I have a feeling they won't. They will use that experience from last season to good use.

[WrongVerb]

Don't forget, folks. From Aug. 9 through Sep. 9 the Reds play the Astros and Cubs a combined 14 times in 30 games. Something tells me that's going to help a lot.

[Chip R]

Don't forget, folks. From Aug. 9 through Sep. 9 the Reds play the Astros and Cubs a combined 14 times in 30 games. Something tells me that's going to help a lot.

Us or the Pirates?

[mdccclxix]

Don't forget, folks. From Aug. 9 through Sep. 9 the Reds play the Astros and Cubs a combined 14 times in 30 games. Something tells me that's going to help a lot.

Depending on what Philly turns out like, you may consider it a benefit to play them 7 times during that stretch as well.

Other scheduling notes:

July 23rd - August 2nd the Reds play Houston, Colorado, and San Diego, all potential trade partners near the deadline.

Many also probably know the Reds close out the season with 3 in Pit and 3 in St. Louis. Could be a photo finish.

[WrongVerb]

Depending on what Philly turns out like, you may consider it a benefit to play them 7 times during that stretch as well.

Other scheduling notes:

July 23rd - August 2nd the Reds play Houston, Colorado, and San Diego, all potential trade partners near the deadline.

Many also probably know the Reds close out the season with 3 in Pit and 3 in St. Louis. Could be a photo finish.

I am definitely thinking the 2nd half schedule favors the Reds.

[RedlegJake]

This is fun! Last time I saw a race shape up like this was in '64. Now if the Brewers would just jump back into things.

[Tony Cloninger]

Don't forget, folks. From Aug. 9 through Sep. 9 the Reds play the Astros and Cubs a combined 14 times in 30 games. Something tells me that's going to help a lot.

Based on this team's track record of playing Down to it's comp......is that really a positive?

[fearofpopvol1]

Both the Pirates and the Cards won tonight. :(

[757690]

Greinke tossed in the first inning for spiking the ball after a close call at first. Funny thing since the stands were reported to be full of scouts to watch him pitch.

Livan Hernandez in to pitch for the Brewers.

Astros 1-0 after one.

[Tony Cloninger]

Greinke tossed in the first inning for spiking the ball after a close call at first. Funny thing since the stands were reported to be full of scouts to watch him pitch.

Livan Hernandez in to pitch for the Brewers.

Astros 1-0 after one.


Umpire overreaction....can he not take it back after getting an explanation?
:laugh:

[Big Klu]

Greinke tossed in the first inning for spiking the ball after a close call at first. Funny thing since the stands were reported to be full of scouts to watch him pitch.

Livan Hernandez in to pitch for the Brewers.

Astros 1-0 after one.

So Greinke should be well-rested for the All-Star Game...oh wait, TLR snubbed him for the same reason he snubbed Cueto--he was pitching on Sunday. If Roenicke really cared about Greinke's chances to making the team, he wouldn't be pitching him on Sunday...oh wait, today is Saturday.

TLR "knows the damn rule."

[757690]

Umpire overreaction....can he not take it back after getting an explanation?
:laugh:

Joe West's crew. Sam Holbrook did the ejecting. Not that unexpected.

[fearofpopvol1]

Sadly, but St. Louis and Pittsburgh won today. Reds need to win to keep pace.

[RedlegJake]

Sadly, but St. Louis and Pittsburgh won today. Reds need to win to keep pace.

They did!!

[oregonred]

They did!!

Never any doubt, had it all the way tonight ;)

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

And here we go again: 2-0 Pirates after one against Tim Lincecum :thumbdown:

Edit: Make it 6-0 now ... man they are annoying.

[kaldaniels]

You would have won a lot of money 2 years ago predicting that on this day the first place Pirates would be beating Tim Lincecum, the worst pitcher in the league, 6-0.

[westofyou]

You would have won a lot of money 2 years ago predicting that on this day the first place Pirates would be beating Tim Lincecum, the worst pitcher in the league, 6-0.

http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/images/2010/11/Biff-Tanen.jpg

[757690]

Right now, I bet the Giants would trade Lincecum for Stubbs.

[RedlegJake]

Right now, I bet the Giants would trade Lincecum for Stubbs.

I hear ya but naw they wouldn't

[757690]

I hear ya but naw they wouldn't

Just to get rid of his contract. He's due over $30M between now and the end of next season.

His ERA+ is 58. 58! That's worse than any Reds starter from the lost decade, including Milton!

[_Sir_Charles_]

Up 10-2 now on the Giants. McGeehee is out with an injured groin though.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Up 10-2 now on the Giants. McGeehee is out with an injured groin though.

They're so hot right now let's hope the four-day break cools them down.

Unfortunately, they have a lot of games vs. the AAAstros coming up post-break.

[757690]

Heath Bell is just horrible this year. Blows another save today, against the Cards. Cards win 5-4. :(

[Tony Cloninger]

Heath Bell is just horrible this year. Blows another save today, against the Cards. Cards win 5-4. :(

Even on Cordero's worst stretches....he has not been as bad as Bell.....he just blows games big time.

[757690]

Also, Brad Mills channels his inner Dusty today.

Down 5-3 in the bottom of the tenth, after the first two batters reached, he bunts them over. Makes very little sense. Astros lose 5-3.

[Scrap Irony]

Pirates schedule is easy in July (relatively speaking), but ratchets up a bunch in mid-August.

Reds schedule looks to be just as easy through July (with the exception of the St. Louis series) and easier as it goes on. The home series are key for the Reds, obvously.

After the break, they've got a long homestand, then an away series with Houston and one with Colorado, both of which are looking to unload good players just before that.

[fearofpopvol1]

Brew Crew just hit a grand slam at the top in the bottom of the 8th to go up 10-6 against the Pirates!!

[757690]

Brew Crew just hit a grand slam at the top in the bottom of the 8th to go up 10-6 against the Pirates!!

It's weird rooting for the Brewers over the Pirates.

[WVRedsFan]

It's weird rooting for the Brewers over the Pirates.

Not for me. Die, Pirates, die.

[fearofpopvol1]

Brewers win 10-7!! Reds gain a game on the Bucs and the Cards. Great night.

[WVPacman]

You guys have to admit it is very nice seeing teams like the Reds and pirates in first place instead of the cards and brewers.I hope the reds start running away with the central but its great to see a team like the pirates having a great year.Agter all they went threw Those fans have to be excited!!

GO REDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[redsmetz]

I see from the scroll that Harang & Volquez are facing each other tonight.

[marcshoe]

Brewers up 2-0 on Pitt in the second.

[Playadlc]

McCutchen homers again. The guy is unreal.

3-2, Brewers.

[Degenerate39]

4-2 Brewers

[Virginia Beach Reds]

Brewers pen gave it up. 5-4 Buccs bottom of 7. They can hit a little. McCutcheon is very good, but come on, he can make an out Brewers if you make good pitches. He is now giving the Votto stare at the pitcher.

[marcshoe]

Casey McGeheeha hit a Homer, Pitt up by 2.

[fearofpopvol1]

Pirates win 6-4. :(

[DGullett35]

I was going to ask earlier where that Pirate pitching went to start the 2nd half after they were down 4-2 but there bullpen was very good tonight

[WVRedsFan]

Interesting matchup in Los Angeles tonight. It matches Edinson Volquez against Aaron Harang, two former Reds. Dodgers lead 6-4 in the sixth. Volquez only lasted five innings, allowing 4 runs and 8 hits on 111 pitches. Must have been inspired against us or we're just a poor hitting team. He looked horrible.

Harang in six innings has allowed four hits and 3 earned runs, two on a HR.

[757690]

Interesting matchup in Los Angeles tonight. It matches Edinson Volquez against Aaron Harang, two former Reds. Dodgers lead 6-4 in the sixth. Volquez only lasted five innings, allowing 4 runs and 8 hits on 111 pitches. Must have been inspired against us or we're just a poor hitting team. He looked horrible.

Harang in six innings has allowed four hits and 3 earned runs, two on a HR.

Crazy ending to this game.

Top of the ninth, Dodgers up 6-5, 2 outs, runners on second and third, 2-2 count on the Amarista. Cabrara (pinch running for Alonso) steals home when he sees pitcher Kenley Jansen turn his back to home, forcing Jansen to throw widely to home, past the catcher Ellis, allowing the other runner to score.

So from one pitch away from winning, the Dodgers lose before another pitch is thrown. Crazy.

[WVRedsFan]

Crazy ending to this game.

Top of the ninth, Dodgers up 6-5, 2 outs, runners on second and third, 2-2 count on the Amarista. Cabrara (pinch running for Alonso) steals home when he sees pitcher Kenley Jansen turn his back to home, forcing Jansen to throw widely to home, past the catcher Ellis, allowing the other runner to score.

So from one pitch away from winning, the Dodgers lose before another pitch is thrown. Crazy.

And cost Harang a win. Pitched well enough to win. Reminds me of his time with the Reds. Leake should have had a win tonight. Had it not been for a great bullpen, the Reds wouldn't have even won. But...if the Reds had the offense needed to score runs, it wouldn't have even been a question. The Dodgers had the offense, but not the pitching. The Reds had the pitching, but not the offense. The Reds won, but offense is needed. Let's get some help and have a descent batting order.

[PuffyPig]

And cost Harang a win. Pitched well enough to win.

Yeah he pitched well enough to win, but also pitched bad enough to lose.

Gave up 4 runs (3 earned) in 7 innings, but also only got 4 K's and gave up 2 HR's. Hitters BABIP 2/22 against him, but with the long ball were still able to score 4 runs.

But I just watched the ending, the runner was originally ruled out, but everyone except the ump knew the catcher had not caught the ball, and the ump quickly changef his ruling.

The relief pitcher was caught napping twice, as he initially ignored the runner on third, and after he threw wildly, he failed to cover home on the play at the plate on the winning run.

[PuffyPig]

Since May 11 the Cards have played 20 games against teams that are still battling for a playoff spot (Cinn, Pitts, LA, SF, Atl and NY, and they have no games against Wash during that span).

The Cards record in those games is 4-16.

If the Cards want to stay in the playoff race, beating some of the teams they are competing agaisnt would be a good start.

I think the Cards offense loads up against the poorer pitchers who not surprisingly are on the poorer teams. But agaisnt the better pitchers (on the better teams) they routinely get shut down.

Look no further than the last 2 games where a decent offensive performance could have gotten them two wins, as their pitching has been OK. But even in GABP they have been held to 5 runs in 19 innings, an average of 2.37 RPG.

[oregonred]

Since May 11 the Cards have played 20 games against teams that are still battling for a playoff spot (Cinn, Pitts, LA, SF, Atl and NY, and they have no games against Wash during that span).

The Cards record in those games is 4-16.

If the Cards want to stay in the playoff race, beating some of the teams they are competing agaisnt would be a good start.

I think the Cards offense loads up against the poorer pitchers who not surprisingly are on the poorer teams. But agaisnt the better pitchers (on the better teams) they routinely get shut down.

Look no further than the last 2 games where a decent offensive performance could have gotten them two wins, as their pitching has been OK. But even in GABP they have been held to 5 runs in 19 innings, an average of 2.37 RPG.

Let's hope the trend continues...

Cardinals have feasted on the Royals, Rockies, Pads and D-backs (13-3 and 33-39 against the rest of the schedule).

Digging into the numbers it is more the Cards pitching than the Cards offense. They've been completely shut down by the Dodgers and Mets (7 games for a 1-6 record). However, they have batted .750OPS+ against each of the Reds, Pirates, Braves, Giants (but only 11-14 in those 25 games) - so they have been far from shut down against better staffs.

So it must be the pitching. And it is... The Cards staff has been absolutely lit up like a Christmas Tree against most of the over .500 NL teams -- except for the Reds (8 games) and Giants (2 games).

For once the Reds have been pythag lucky against the Cards this season outscored 34-22, easily outhit (.791 to .661 OPS) and well outpitched (2.51 ERA vs. 4.21 ERA). Granted the 11-1 and 7-1 beat downs during the first two series contributed to the delta.

All small sample size, but interesting nevertheless. It's all about the Cards pitching which appears to be severely exposed against the better teams.

[Chip R]

PIT up 1-0 in the 5th on a solo HR by guess who.

[oregonred]

PIT up 1-0 in the 5th on a solo HR by guess who.

Rennie Stennett? Tim Foli? Omar Moreno?

[Tom Servo]

PIT up 1-0 in the 5th on a solo HR by guess who.
Roberto Clemente?

[Chip R]

Roberto Clemente?

He's dead.

[Chip R]

Brewers score 4 in the 6th and are up 4-1.

[757690]

Brewers score 4 in the 6th and are up 4-1.

Still trying to decide if that's good or bad news :confused:

[Playadlc]

Gallardo has 14 K's through 7 and has only allowed 4 base runners.

Not bad.

[fearofpopvol1]

Brewers win!!

Worst case scenario is the Reds are tied with the Pirates after tonight. But hopefully they'll go a game up.

[_Sir_Charles_]

He's dead.

That makes it all the more impressive, no?

[gilpdawg]

He's dead.

Cross him off then!

[Crumbley]

Everybody feeling good?

Me too.

[Big Klu]

He's dead.

Francisco Franco?

[Kc61]

Cards trail Brewers 1-0 in the eighth.

Rockies, currently with Josh Roenicke on the mound, lead the Pirates 4-1 in the eighth.


Reds have already lost, so it would be good if these scores hold up.

[VR]

Cards tie it up off of Gas Can Axford

[WVRedsFan]

Strange evening. Cards have bases loaded with two out. Afford looks horrible, Brewers lead 2-0. Rain in the top of the 9th in Colorado with Bucs losing 4-1, but they have two on and One out. Everyone rallying.

[Kc61]

Cards go ahead on Axford in the ninth. Two out rally. Be happy we have Chapman closing.

[VR]

Cards tie it up off of Gas Can Axford

and take the lead 3-2

[Kc61]

Cards won. Now hopefully the Rockies hold on.

[WVRedsFan]

Three run homer ties the Bucs with the Rockies. Alvarez hits the homer. They won't go away, guys, no matter what you think. They are the 2010 Reds.

[VottoFan54]

Pirates and Rockies are now tied at 4 in the ninth.

[WVRedsFan]

Rockies win it with SF in the bottom of the 9th. Reds up by 1 game.

[WVPacman]

who pitchs for the brewers and cards? Come on Brewers!!:D

[The Operator]

Three run homer ties the Bucs with the Rockies. Alvarez hits the homer. They won't go away, guys, no matter what you think. They are the 2010 Reds.I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand the huge fear some of you guys have in them. They were in first place on July 25th last year and ended up 20 games back.

[WVRedsFan]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand the huge fear some of you guys have in them. They were in first place on July 25th last year and ended up 20 games back.

They're a different team. Like it or not, they will be around until the end. With Votto out until mid August, it's more important to win than ever. Tonight it was a win for the picking. Our starter failed. Our bullpen, save Bray and even he didnt allow a run miraculously, shined. They have the look of a winner as do the Reds. The trouble is that is that our offense is so putrid. I just have the feeling that we will stand pat. Worries.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Go Rockies! Go Brewers!

[RedlegJake]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand the huge fear some of you guys have in them. They were in first place on July 25th last year and ended up 20 games back.

Young rteams learn from that - the Pirates aren't going to fold up this year - mark it. They've added some decent players and the young guys have learned.

[OesterPoster]

Brewers did it. Down go the Cards.

[VR]

Brewers did it. Down go the Cards.

Tying run at 3rd with no outs....and they lose.

Sweet.
Nectar.

[cumberlandreds]

Brewers jump ahead the Cards 4-0 after one. The Cards kicking the ball all over the place in the first.

[Brutus]

Rockies jump ahead 3-0 on the Somali ship raiders.

[RedlegJake]

Rockies jump ahead 3-0 on the Somali ship raiders.

I love that line!

[Brutus]

I love that line!

:D

5-1, now, Rockies. Top 3

[Mario-Rijo]

:D

5-1, now, Rockies. Top 3

I said it the other day, McDonald should start coming back a bit. He's been BABIP lucky so far this season, about 50 points short of his norm.

[Brutus]

I said it the other day, McDonald should start coming back a bit. He's been BABIP lucky so far this season, about 50 points short of his norm.

Agreed. McDonald has been pitching exceptionally, but I can't fathom his ERA would remain in the low 2's all year.

His 3:1 K:BB rate has been remarkable, though. Been surprised by that, admittedly.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I said it the other day, McDonald should start coming back a bit. He's been BABIP lucky so far this season, about 50 points short of his norm.

I agree, he should regress some. IMO so should Cueto though. Regardless of how much either of them do, they're both still pitching outstanding ball.

(McCutchen should regress some as well, but some of the other hitters are trending up so it should offset it somewhat I'd think)

[_Sir_Charles_]

5 spot for the Buccos in the 3rd. Now up 6-5 on the Rockies.

[Brutus]

5 spot for the Buccos in the 3rd. Now up 6-5 on the Rockies.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080103210311/uncyclopedia/images/a/af/Oh_noes_fire.jpg

[Sea Ray]

5 spot for the Buccos in the 3rd. Now up 6-5 on the Rockies.

Coors Field...

[OesterPoster]

I keep hoping the Pirates don't do anything in one of these games, so I can cite Veggie Tales.

http://www.worstpreviews.com/images/pirateswhodontdoanything.jpg

[_Sir_Charles_]

Coors Field...

Sure, but the dingers in this game haven't been cheapies. Cargo, Jones, Alvarez...all solid bombs. I didn't see Fowler's dinger.

[RedlegJake]

Scutaro scores to tie it in the 4th 6-6
McGehee 2 run homer in 5th makes it 8-6 Bucs
Barajas homers 9-6 in 5th

[VottoFan54]

The Brewers are up 4-2 in the top of the ninth, but the Cards have runners on first and second with one out and Matt Holliday batting. The Brewers have really struggled in save situations this year.