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View Full Version : Hey Dusty! What gives?



Magdal
04-06-2012, 09:05 AM
Maybe I'm getting on your case too soon, but what in the wide, wide world of sports has you batting that big stiff Rolen 4th? You got Ryan RBI Ludstick on the team now.

Rolen has the glove, but Luddy has the stick. Use him Dude! (if you're not gonna bat Bruce 4th, that is)

fielder's choice
04-06-2012, 10:40 AM
Bruce is the obvious choice. Only too bad it's illegal to hit two lefties in a row.

Captain13
04-06-2012, 10:45 AM
Maybe I'm getting on your case too soon, but what in the wide, wide world of sports has you batting that big stiff Rolen 4th? You got Ryan RBI Ludstick on the team now.

Rolen has the glove, but Luddy has the stick. Use him Dude! (if you're not gonna bat Bruce 4th, that is)

All Rolen did was go 1-3 with a double and get hit by a pitch (I know Ludwick had a double as well). I think while he is healthy Rolen will be the better hitter between Ludwick and himself, but I agree Bruce is the obvious choice.

LeDoux
04-06-2012, 10:53 AM
Given what Rolen says about the success of his shoulder surgery, and his productive Spring- I am hoping for a Berkman/2011ish bounceback from him.

Magdal
04-06-2012, 11:33 AM
All Rolen did was go 1-3 with a double and get hit by a pitch (I know Ludwick had a double as well). I think while he is healthy Rolen will be the better hitter between Ludwick and himself, but I agree Bruce is the obvious choice.You apparently missed his foul upper deck shot, but my stance is not based on 1 game. I know both hitters well, and Scott is not the same hitter that he used to be by a mile.

Listen to this: Lud used to bat behind Pujols and I can't tell you how many times he burned 'em for the insult after an intentional walk to Albert. It pizzed me off to see them pass Votto twice with Rolen behind him and Bruce and Lud wasted.

When Bruce is hitting he's a VERY dangerous man...more dangerous than Ludwick or maybe anybody. But when he is in one of his funks he flat out stinks. You just got Luddy, so give him a shot , and don't wait till May to do it!

If Dusty still has Rolen at #4 today it's a mistake.

texasdave
04-06-2012, 11:50 AM
The Reds are off today. :)

krm1580
04-06-2012, 12:14 PM
Maybe I'm getting on your case too soon, but what in the wide, wide world of sports has you batting that big stiff Rolen 4th? You got Ryan RBI Ludstick on the team now.

Rolen has the glove, but Luddy has the stick. Use him Dude! (if you're not gonna bat Bruce 4th, that is)


I think most people agree Scott Rolen is not a clean up hitter and with his age and injury history its unlikely he will provide much protection for Votto, but I don't get why you see Ryan Ludwick as a solution.

Throw out the anomaly that was his 2008 season and you are looking at a guy that accumulated 4.4 WAR over 2300+ plate appearances. By any measure that is a bench player.

BTW, it was only one game but Jay Bruce looked fantastic yesterday. He worked himself into good counts and did not flail at the soft stuff away like he did last year. If he looks that comfortable all year I see no we he can't end up hitting #4

Magdal
04-06-2012, 12:17 PM
The Reds are off today. :)sheesh!

Magdal
04-06-2012, 12:20 PM
I think most people agree Scott Rolen is not a clean up hitter and with his age and injury history its unlikely he will provide much protection for Votto, but I don't get why you see Ryan Ludwick as a solution.

Throw out the anomaly that was his 2008 season and you are looking at a guy that accumulated 4.4 WAR over 2300+ plate appearances. By any measure that is a bench player.

BTW, it was only one game but Jay Bruce looked fantastic yesterday. He worked himself into good counts and did not flail at the soft stuff away like he did last year. If he looks that comfortable all year I see no we he can't end up hitting #4Throw out all that WAR baloney and just WATCH how many good ABs he will have after an IBB to Votto.

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 01:01 PM
I can see batting Ludwick 4th but hes not going to play every game. Half the games are going to have Heisey in the lineup. maybe more than half since we face more righties than lefties. So Rolen is going to have to hit 4th half the time at least.

krm1580
04-06-2012, 01:03 PM
Throw out all that WAR baloney and just WATCH how many good ABs he will have after an IBB to Votto.

Fair enough. I will throw out all the stats. How does a major, middle of the order RBI machine go to unrestricted free agency in this day and age and end up with a contract for what amounts to chump change.

Its possible the scouts and front office people for 29 other teams were wrong and you are right, but it seems unlikely.

Jr's Boy
04-06-2012, 02:12 PM
Believe in Rusty.:D

Magdal
04-06-2012, 02:31 PM
Fair enough. I will throw out all the stats. How does a major, middle of the order RBI machine go to unrestricted free agency in this day and age and end up with a contract for what amounts to chump change.

Its possible the scouts and front office people for 29 other teams were wrong and you are right, but it seems unlikely.He's not an RBI machine. He's a good #4 hitter. After that IBB to Votto he will GIDP far less than Rolen, and hit a damn sight more HRs.

As far as the other 29 teams passing on him: teams every year add guys to their team that have sucked for years. Aaron Miles, Theriot, bums like that. They also pay big bucks for free agents that suddenly start to suck.

Jockety's pick up of a totally washed up Edmonds is a classic example of low hanging fruit. So your point of some implied wisdom of baseball execs is almost laughable. My God! Rick Ankiel is still playing every day for some team!

Looks like I went on a rant here....before I get in any deeper let me just say that when Bruce is not hitting, Lud is your best option, and no matter how Rolen is hitting he is NEVER an option.

Red Raindog
04-06-2012, 02:41 PM
Given what Rolen says about the success of his shoulder surgery, and his productive Spring- I am hoping for a Berkman/2011ish bounceback from him.

You only want 31 HR & 94 RBI?

Nothing like a .301/.412/.959 wish!

Always aim high!

brm7675
04-06-2012, 02:49 PM
As long as Rolen is healthy he will hit fourth.

LeDoux
04-06-2012, 03:40 PM
You only want 31 HR & 94 RBI?

Nothing like a .301/.412/.959 wish!

Always aim high!

Berkmanish in the sense of OPS: 0.781 (2010) to 0.959 (2011) compared with Rolen's 0.676 (2011) to .800 or more (2012).

I'd certainly take 31 HR. But I'd be happy with anything over .800 OPS and solid D. I think Rolen might have 120 games of that left in him. If he does, this lineup will score its fair share of runs.

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 03:44 PM
As long as Rolen is healthy he will hit fourth.

True^ and hes also going to hit 4th when Heisey starts too. I can see Ludwick getting some time in the 4 spot but its mainly going to be Rolen and Im ok with that as long as he stays healthy.

DaytonFlyer
04-07-2012, 10:23 AM
Why should we be batting Ludwick 4th again? We're just going to close our eyes and wish away that .236 average he had last year?

tedies
04-07-2012, 11:34 AM
As long as Rolen is healthy he will hit fourth.

Yep, and probably the best answer in the 4 hole imo

faffy42
04-07-2012, 01:24 PM
I like Rolen batting 4th.

DGullett35
04-07-2012, 02:10 PM
As long as Rolen is healthy hes probably going to bat 4th all year. Ludwick may get some time in the 4 spot but other than Rolen and sometimes Ludwick we really dont have much of an option at the 4 spot. I mean we do but according to Dusty we don't. I would love to see Bruce hit 4th but that won't happen. I wish Dusty would think outside the box sometimes, and I really don't mind Dusty all that much. It's just some of his moves make you wonder.

Ironman92
04-07-2012, 04:14 PM
Dusty won't bat Votto/Bruce back-to-back as it may be too easy for a lefty to get them out in the 7th.

Innings 1-6 don't matter.

It's not like Ruth/Gehrig were back-to-back.

Red Raindog
04-07-2012, 04:19 PM
Berkmanish in the sense of OPS: 0.781 (2010) to 0.959 (2011) compared with Rolen's 0.676 (2011) to .800 or more (2012).

I'd certainly take 31 HR. But I'd be happy with anything over .800 OPS and solid D. I think Rolen might have 120 games of that left in him. If he does, this lineup will score its fair share of runs.

I was just poking you -- but I think you knew that.

LeDoux
04-07-2012, 08:13 PM
I was just poking you -- but I think you knew that.

I thought that was the case- but you are never sure in the Sundeck! It makes a posting demon of many a man.

LaFlamaBlanca
04-08-2012, 01:29 AM
Dusty won't bat Votto/Bruce back-to-back as it may be too easy for a lefty to get them out in the 7th.

Innings 1-6 don't matter.

It's not like Ruth/Gehrig were back-to-back.

Which is completely justified, because Votto OPSed .987 vs. lefties last season, compared to .930 vs. righties.

Dusty = :dunno:

DirtyBaker
04-08-2012, 01:58 AM
There are major questions of anyone batting behind Votto at this point. We can't clone BP, Bruce makes sense but he's lefty, Rolen is old, and Ludwick is a wildcard. I can't fault Dusty for going with Rolen, although it makes sense for me to bite the bullet and just go with Bruce. It may hurt us in close games, but I envision our run total would be higher over the course of the year with Bruce batting cleanup.

The Rays are in a similar situation, Joe Maddon had Jeff Keppinger DHing and batting cleanup on opening day. Cleanup hitters don't grow on trees.

My guess is that when Rolen plays, which will likely be about 100 games, he will bat cleanup. If not, probably Ludwick or Bruce depending on who's hotter.

LaFlamaBlanca
04-08-2012, 12:52 PM
Don't understand the calls for Ludwick to hit clean up. People realize we signed him for $2.5 million right? And he OPSed .674 last season, lower than Drew Stubbs, Ryan Hanigan, Miguel Cairo, Jonny Gomes, Chris Heisey, Todd Frazier etc etc. Why should he just walk into it? Carlos Beltran, at least at this moment, he is not.

Ironman92
04-08-2012, 12:58 PM
Don't understand the calls for Ludwick to hit clean up. People realize we signed him for $2.5 million right? And he OPSed .674 last season, lower than Drew Stubbs, Ryan Hanigan, Miguel Cairo, Jonny Gomes, Chris Heisey, Todd Frazier etc etc. Why should he just walk into it? Carlos Beltran, at least at this moment, he is not.

Yeah....but like many a Reds retread he was pretty good 4 or so years ago.