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dfs
04-06-2012, 11:44 AM
Ok. So, they've sunk a ton of money in this guy. Doesn't sound like my team, but it's what happened.

His first year the front office had the maturity of a 4 year old in a candy store and after he started the first half of the year in the minors, they put him in the major league bullpen where he was a spectacular curiosity and helped push the team to a playoff appearance.

The next year......acting like a hyper-caffeinated teenager, the front office sticks him in the bullpen. He has some rough patches, but he is seen as a bright spot in one of the stronger elements of the team.

During the off season everybody plays lip service to the missle as starter. He's going to Louisville and get stretched out. Then the relievers start to go down to injuries. Chapman pitches like, well, like Chapman and the reds start hemming and hawing and sure enough there he is on opening day the first arm out of the pen transitioning from the starter to the closer.

Am I the only one who thinks the franchise would be better off if Chapman where throwing more innings every 5 days in Louisville?

RedEye
04-06-2012, 11:54 AM
I don't think they prefer having Chapman in the bullpen either, but they need him there right now. I think they have every intention of stretching him out and seeing what he's got for the rotation later in the season.

BTW, it is spelled "missile." :)

OnBaseMachine
04-06-2012, 12:01 PM
Yesterday was the best I've ever seen Chapman look. His mechanics were great and he worked at a quicker pace. Everything Bryan Price said about him this spring proved to be true yesterday. He was very, very impressive. He blew John Buck away and then made Reyes look silly with that slider. I just hope we see him get a chance at starting after Masset and Bray are healthy.

mace
04-06-2012, 12:21 PM
Yesterday was the best I've ever seen Chapman look. His mechanics were great and he worked at a quicker pace. Everything Bryan Price said about him this spring proved to be true yesterday. He was very, very impressive. He blew John Buck away and then made Reyes look silly with that slider. I just hope we see him get a chance at starting after Masset and Bray are healthy.

Agreed. I was skeptical about him as a starter, largely due to his lack of command. Seemed like he'd be up to 100 pitches by the fourth inning. But the command seems to have improved enormously, and consequently I'd love to see him get a shot in the rotation.

Still, there's the question of innings. I don't see him going over 140 or so; and if that's the case, do you really want him using up those innings in Louisville? He was stretched a bit in spring training. Seems to me that if he spends about six or eight weeks in the bullpen, somehow lengthening out a bit toward the end of that stint--admittedly, that might be a tricky proposition--he'd be good to go in the rotation for the rest of the year. And the Reds would get the benefit of his remarkable stuff in the meantime, while Bray and Masset recuperate.

Kc61
04-06-2012, 12:29 PM
Am I the only one who thinks the franchise would be better off if Chapman where throwing more innings every 5 days in Louisville?

I am real happy that Chapman is a major league Red. I was real happy he was available to pitch the 8th inning yesterday.

At some point he will be in the rotation and he may spend a short period in the minors en route to that. But right now, with the starting rotation full and the bullpen missing guys, I am delighted that Chapman is pitching for the Reds.

The major league Cincinnati Reds.

RANDY IN INDY
04-06-2012, 02:06 PM
His tempo in his delivery was very good yesterday. Best I've seen since watching him. If he can keep that going, he can be real special. It will be interesting to see how the tempo holds up in stressful situations. Liked that he was working faster, too.

elfmanvt07
04-06-2012, 03:27 PM
You know, I was sort of on the fence until I caught Thom's argument as to why he was in the 'pen. We all want him to be and ace. Right now we need relievers.

cinreds21
04-06-2012, 04:01 PM
I am surprised he's going out of the windup out of the bullpen. If I remember correctly, when he was in the pen last year he went from the stretch.

OnBaseMachine
04-08-2012, 04:56 PM
Aroldis Chapman so far this season: 3 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 K, 38 pitches/27 strikes.

11larkin11
04-08-2012, 04:59 PM
I am surprised he's going out of the windup out of the bullpen. If I remember correctly, when he was in the pen last year he went from the stretch.

Hopefully thats a sign he won't be in the pen long.

RANDY IN INDY
04-08-2012, 05:10 PM
I like what he's doing for the club right now. Invaluable.

RedsManRick
04-08-2012, 05:33 PM
I like what he's doing for the club right now. Invaluable.

I'd be very interested to see him used more than the average reliever -- more of the classic 2-3 innings twice a week. He could get 100-120 high leverage innings that way, taking pressure off the rest of the pen and still beng more valuable than your standard 60-70 inning guy.

On that last strikeout, he ramped it up to 100. I do worry that starting would take away his ability to really dial it up a notch to shut the door.

RANDY IN INDY
04-08-2012, 05:54 PM
Although I am intrigued with Chapman as a starter, he really has elite closer stuff, and I really think that's where he will eventually have the greatest success and value.

Blitz Dorsey
04-08-2012, 06:18 PM
One comment and one question:

Comment: My goodness does Chapman look great. With Marshall as the closer and Chapman as the left-handed set-up man, the Reds might not miss Madson as much as we thought.

Question: When Chapman signed in early 2010, there were conflicting reports in regards to whether it was a 5-year deal or a 6-year deal. So, which is it? Will Chapman be a free agent after the 2014 season or after the 2015 season? I think it's the latter (he signed a 6-year deal) but I could be wrong. I definitely remember people reporting it both ways. One publication would say 6-year deal, another would say 5 years.

reds44
04-08-2012, 06:19 PM
One comment and one question:

Comment: My goodness does Chapman look great. With Marshall as the closer and Chapman as the left-handed set-up man, the Reds might not miss Madson as much as we thought.

Question: When Chapman signed in early 2010, there were conflicting reports in regards to whether it was a 5-year deal or a 6-year deal. So, which is it? Will Chapman be a free agent after the 2014 season or after the 2015 season? I think it's the latter (he signed a 6-year deal) but I could be wrong. I definitely remember people reporting it both ways. One publication would say 6-year deal, another would say 5 years.
Even if it is a 5 year deal, wouldn't the Reds have him under control for 6 no matter what? Worst case is he's arbitration eligible after his contract runs out. I could be wrong with that, though.

Blitz Dorsey
04-08-2012, 06:21 PM
Even if it is a 5 year deal, wouldn't the Reds have him under control for 6 no matter what? Worst case is he's arbitration eligible after his contract runs out. I could be wrong with that, though.

Just found the answer. The Cuban Missile signed a 6-year deal. Won't be a free agent until 2016:

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cincinnati-reds/

The Operator
04-09-2012, 12:13 AM
Even if it was only a 5-year deal, he would have been under team control for six years. A 5-year contract would have basically just been the equivalent of buying out some arbitration years. But no one can wiggle past putting in 6 years before free agency.

WVPacman
04-09-2012, 12:56 AM
Its just a matter of time till he takes Bronson's spot in the rotation.When the bullpen gets healthy and if Bronson's does'nt pitch like his old self then I see Chapman starting over Bronson.JMO

cincinnati chili
04-09-2012, 02:40 AM
Its just a matter of time till he takes Bronson's spot in the rotation.When the bullpen gets healthy and if Bronson's does'nt pitch like his old self then I see Chapman starting over Bronson.JMO

I agree that this is a possibility.

What's the deal with Bray. Is he still hurt? The idea that we "need" Chapman in the pen is inversely proportional to Bray's effectiveness. I thought this pen was going to be pretty good even before we signed Madson; then we lose Madson, and everyone panics. If we "need" Chapman in the pen, then fine. I just don't want to have a replay of last year where we miss the playoffs in large part because of two ineffective starting pitchers repeatedly run out there to get shelled.

reds44
04-09-2012, 02:41 AM
Take Chapman out of the pen right now and getting the ball to Marshall becomes very difficult.

Roy Tucker
04-09-2012, 09:42 AM
I'd be very interested to see him used more than the average reliever -- more of the classic 2-3 innings twice a week. He could get 100-120 high leverage innings that way, taking pressure off the rest of the pen and still beng more valuable than your standard 60-70 inning guy.



This may have been mentioned before, but this scenario might work for transitioning him to a starter's role. 2-3 inning stints can then be relatively easily stretched to a 5 inning starters stint.

Plus, if Chapman is going to pitch 140 innings, I'd like them to be skewed towards the end of the season than the beginning. Mike Leake in 2010 comes to mind. Leake started the season like a house afire but was used up by August.

bucksfan2
04-09-2012, 10:22 AM
One comment and one question:

Comment: My goodness does Chapman look great. With Marshall as the closer and Chapman as the left-handed set-up man, the Reds might not miss Madson as much as we thought.

The issue with Madson is your not really going to see much of a difference from Chapman or Marshall. Both would be pitching at a high level with or without the presence of Madson. The issue is you lost a high level arm and are replacing that with a AAAA type arm. The big drop off isn't between Madson and Marshall, its between Madson and Simon.

BCubb2003
04-09-2012, 10:36 AM
The issue with Madson is your not really going to see much of a difference from Chapman or Marshall. Both would be pitching at a high level with or without the presence of Madson. The issue is you lost a high level arm and are replacing that with a AAAA type arm. The big drop off isn't between Madson and Marshall, its between Madson and Simon.

I wonder though: Wouldn't the drop-off really be between Chapman and Ondrusek, or Arredondo and Simon?

REDREAD
04-09-2012, 12:34 PM
Honestly, so far, it looks like Walt made the right decision.
Chapman contributed in both our wins.
The game thread seemed to indicate that he used his changeup last night.
So, he's developing pitches he needs to be a starter, and contributing to the team while in the pen.

lollipopcurve
04-09-2012, 12:42 PM
This may have been mentioned before, but this scenario might work for transitioning him to a starter's role. 2-3 inning stints can then be relatively easily stretched to a 5 inning starters stint.

Plus, if Chapman is going to pitch 140 innings, I'd like them to be skewed towards the end of the season than the beginning. Mike Leake in 2010 comes to mind. Leake started the season like a house afire but was used up by August.

This makes sense to me. The question becomes, will Baker be able to resist the urge to use Chapman in a one-inning setup capacity multiple times in a row or several times in a week. I think it will be very difficult for him to stop himself, because as we know he likes a pushbutton approach to his bullpen.

fisch11
04-09-2012, 01:28 PM
Take Chapman out of the pen right now and getting the ball to Marshall becomes very difficult.

Agreed. I see both sides of the Starter vs. Reliever debate. I think Chapman's plan is strongly hinging on Nick Masset. If Nick can setup Marshall you should see Chapman moving back to the rotation. Who he replaces will depend on health (DL trip) and/or performance. Plus, starting him in the bullpen lowers his inning count for the rest of the season as a starter.

HeatherC1212
04-09-2012, 03:32 PM
I agree that this is a possibility.

What's the deal with Bray. Is he still hurt? The idea that we "need" Chapman in the pen is inversely proportional to Bray's effectiveness. I thought this pen was going to be pretty good even before we signed Madson; then we lose Madson, and everyone panics. If we "need" Chapman in the pen, then fine. I just don't want to have a replay of last year where we miss the playoffs in large part because of two ineffective starting pitchers repeatedly run out there to get shelled.

IIRC, Bray is now healthy but he didn't get enough game action in spring training to assume the late innings (high stress) lefty role that he was so good at last year. I think they wanted him to get more innings under his belt to make sure he's totally over his injury which is why Chapman is in there to help out.

OldRightHander
04-10-2012, 09:29 AM
IIRC, Bray is now healthy but he didn't get enough game action in spring training to assume the late innings (high stress) lefty role that he was so good at last year. I think they wanted him to get more innings under his belt to make sure he's totally over his injury which is why Chapman is in there to help out.

He make a good case for himself last night.