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View Full Version : If Madson hadn't gotten Hurt.....



TuneSquad
04-06-2012, 12:49 PM
Yesterday watching Chapman absolutely dominate an inning yesterday and make the defending NL batting champ look like a fool, I was thinking where Chapman would be without some bullpen injuries. That made me think that if Masset and Madson didnt get hurt (especially Madson) would Aroldis be in the rotation and Bailey be traded?

I wanted to see what the rest of reds country thinks...

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 12:58 PM
It depends on who it was up too. Dusty I think has wanted Chapman in the bullpen from the first day of camp. I think Walt wants him in the rotation but as of right now this team needs him in the bullpen. I hope Masset comes back healthy because I would love to see Chapman get a chance to show what he can do for 5-7 innings. With the way he looked yesterday in the 8th I dont see how you can move him at all right now. The guy can pitch 2 sometimes 3 innings relief which I think is fine right now. Im still holding out hope Walt signs Oswalt for some rotation insurance(at least Peter Gammons said that Reds and Oswalt is still a possibility:))

arkimadee
04-06-2012, 01:27 PM
What some people seem to forget is that if Chapman would have been a starter at the beginning of the season, he would have to be shut down at the end of July or something like that? That would have sucked if he would have been lights out and we were like a game in first and all of a sudden we would have to shut him down and throw someone else in there. Now maybe with a couple of months in the bullpen, he could begin starting in June or July and finish out the season. It's just a thought.

joshua
04-06-2012, 01:42 PM
There's no reason to think Chapman would have to be shut down in July. He's always been a starter, the Reds turned him into a bullpen arm just to get him to the big league club, which I think more and more was a mistake. Should've never taken him out of Louisville and he would've been in the rotation in the middle of last year. I think he could go 170 innings if he started now. The worst thing that happened to him was Dusty using him every other day last year, which was apparant when he suddenly had trouble and lost 15+MPH off his heater and Ramon had to tell the staff something was wrong with him...ended up being just exhaustion. Chapman is great out of the pen, but I would use him for two or three innings at a time twice a week, instead of having him face three batters and sit and keep running him out there. I hope he doesn't get hurt having the lack of rest he's been used to his whole life.

brm7675
04-06-2012, 01:52 PM
Flat out, no question for all the good that the Reds have done they are on the verge of ruining Chapman and wasting 30 million dollars due to either stubbornish or foolishness by Walt...

joshua
04-06-2012, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE=brm7675;2555910]Flat out, no question for all the good that the Reds have done they are on the verge of ruining Chapman and wasting 30 million dollars due to either stubbornish or foolishness by Walt...[/QUOThttp://www.redlegsreview.com/2012/04/opening-day-cincinnatis-greatest.htmlE]

From what I've heard, Walt wanted him in the rotation and Dusty wanted him in the pen. Walt was going to get his way until Madson got hurt. If something bad happens to Chapman, it will be because Dusty is using him too many days in a row.

brm7675
04-06-2012, 02:51 PM
What does Madsen injury have to do with doing what is best for the franchise and Chapman?

[deleted]
04-06-2012, 02:59 PM
What does Madsen injury have to do with doing what is best for the franchise and Chapman?

Well, it shouldn't, but the reason Chapman is relieving right now is because of the state of peril the bullpen is supposedly in with Madson and Masset down for the count.

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 03:13 PM
The reality is Madson did get hurt and is a lost cause for 2012. Sooo.. We currently need Chapman in the pen for the sake of this bullpen. When Masset gets back healthy then maybe he can be moved into the rotation or to AAA to get ready for the rotation but until then I have to think that hes in the best spot according to the teams needs. Bray is said to not be able to be the set-up man at the current time and other than maybe Arrendondo there isnt anyone I would trust for the job. I think that at the present time Chapman is needed in the pen because w/o Madson and Masset the pen doesnt look to fierce IMO so Im fine with the decision for the time being. When July or August comes around and the staff is struggling and Chapman is still in the pen I might have a different opinion.

brm7675
04-06-2012, 03:32 PM
So in the entire Reds organization there is NO other pitcher who can pitch out of the pen every few days for an inning? Wow if that is true we are so screwed..

texasdave
04-06-2012, 04:05 PM
x

dubc47834
04-06-2012, 04:17 PM
From what I have heard Chapman was only a 4-5 inning guy in Cuba. I'm cool with him in the pen. It's not Krusties fault they over paid for him. I would like him in the rotation, but with the injuries, it is what it is. As long as we win, who cares!!!!!
:beerme:

krm1580
04-06-2012, 04:22 PM
On the positive side of the equation though, if Marshall turns out to be a really good closer, we end up with a below market value closer for the next 4 seasons rather than a highly paid setup guy.

In effect we would be getting 4 years or Marshall for the cost of 1.5 years of Cordero. :thumbup:

UPRedsFan
04-06-2012, 06:03 PM
The strike out of Reyes really showed me something. It was an offspeed splitter or fork ball that had Reyes leaning way out front. There's the 3rd pitch!

He needs to be in the rotation. Move Leake or Bronson to the pen.

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 06:14 PM
So in the entire Reds organization there is NO other pitcher who can pitch out of the pen every few days for an inning? Wow if that is true we are so screwed..


You put the guy that can perform the best at any givin position whether that be a starter a bench player, bullpen or starting rotation. Right now our BEST option for a set-up man or late inning relief is Aroldis Chapman. Sure someone else could do it but wouldn't be nearly effective as Chapman is. I may not agree with it but right now its for the good of the team. I'm one of the first to say that Chapman is better off in the long run pitching in the rotation so I can see where you're coming from but like Ive already said, he's the best option for the role that he currently is performing in. Now, when Masset comes back that may change depending on how effective he is. I hope that is the case because I would love to see what Aroldis can do for 5, 6, or 7 innings

Also I would like for Dusty to maybe use Chapman for more than 1 inning. Maybe let him go at least 2 or possibly 3. he could handle that kind of workload and the transition to a starter may in fact be easier and take less time if Dusty were to do this.

brm7675
04-06-2012, 06:39 PM
You put the guy that can perform the best at any givin position whether that be a starter a bench player, bullpen or starting rotation. Right now our BEST option for a set-up man or late inning relief is Aroldis Chapman. Sure someone else could do it but wouldn't be nearly effective as Chapman is. I may not agree with it but right now its for the good of the team. I'm one of the first to say that Chapman is better off in the long run pitching in the rotation so I can see where you're coming from but like Ive already said, he's the best option for the role that he currently is performing in. Now, when Masset comes back that may change depending on how effective he is. I hope that is the case because I would love to see what Aroldis can do for 5, 6, or 7 innings

Also I would like for Dusty to maybe use Chapman for more than 1 inning. Maybe let him go at least 2 or possibly 3. he could handle that kind of workload and the transition to a starter may in fact be easier and take less time if Dusty were to do this.

Why is chapman the best person? Wouldn't his services be better for the team if he was pitching in the SP instead of throwing 10 pitches one day, then not pitching again for 3-4 days for another 10 pitches or so? We signed him to be a starter....

DGullett35
04-06-2012, 07:23 PM
Hes the best person for the job because we have noone else that can do it as productive as he can(maybe when Masset comes back Chapman can resume his transformation into a starter). I think your going to see Chapman get opportunity's to save some games also because thats what Dusty wants. Chapman looked downright filthy yesterday. hes probably the best bullpen arm we have and heck he has the talent to be the best starter also. Just ask yourself who you would trust or better yet who you would prefer coming out of the pen with a 1 run lead other than Marshall. It has to be Chapman RIGHT NOW imo.

Also whos spot would he take in the rotation right now?

Cueto-hes our #1 so def not taking his spot
Latos-Our #2 and future #1 def. not taking his spot
Arroyo-We pay him way too much to put him in the pen and he has a track record of being a good starter and innings eater
Bailey-From what Ive read he cant pitch out of the pen and is out of options
Leake-Our 2nd best starter in 2011 and no way he isnt a starter in 2012 IMO. The guy is solid plain and simple. maybe the best #5 man in all of baseball.

So there ya go theres just no way Chapman fits right now in the rotation. Id prefer him over Bailey but tell Dusty that. Im actually a Bailey fan and think he could have a good year but he better prove quickly that he can be good or if I was the Reds brass Id have Chapman taking his spot. I also said Id prefer Chapman to make longer appearances, maybe 2 or 3 innings instead of the 1 inning role. Im agreeing with you tho. I WANT Chapman to start and feel it is a waste to have him in the pen. Im hoping that another year removed from tommy john that Arrendondo can be the pitcher he was in LA. If that was the case then Arrendondo, Masset, and Marshall would be awesome in the back end.

If Chapman is to start at all this year then he can't relieve for more than a month or so or you might as well keep him in the pen all year.Let him have longer relief appearances and when the pen is completely healthy send him to Louisville for a few weeks then bring him up for that second half push as a starter. By then Im sure someone will be hurt(crossing my fingers so that doesnt happen) or maybe Bailey will be traded. I feel like he could be David Price circa 2008

brm7675
04-06-2012, 07:42 PM
Hes the best person for the job because we have noone else that can do it as productive as he can(maybe when Masset comes back Chapman can resume his transformation into a starter). I think your going to see Chapman get opportunity's to save some games also because thats what Dusty wants. Chapman looked downright filthy yesterday. hes probably the best bullpen arm we have and heck he has the talent to be the best starter also. Just ask yourself who you would trust or better yet who you would prefer coming out of the pen with a 1 run lead other than Marshall. It has to be Chapman RIGHT NOW imo.

Also whos spot would he take in the rotation right now?

Cueto-hes our #1 so def not taking his spot
Latos-Our #2 and future #1 def. not taking his spot
Arroyo-We pay him way too much to put him in the pen and he has a track record of being a good starter and innings eater
Bailey-From what Ive read he cant pitch out of the pen and is out of options
Leake-Our 2nd best starter in 2011 and no way he isnt a starter in 2012 IMO. The guy is solid plain and simple. maybe the best #5 man in all of baseball.

So there ya go theres just no way Chapman fits right now in the rotation. Id prefer him over Bailey but tell Dusty that. Im actually a Bailey fan and think he could have a good year but he better prove quickly that he can be good or if I was the Reds brass Id have Chapman taking his spot. I also said Id prefer Chapman to make longer appearances, maybe 2 or 3 innings instead of the 1 inning role. Im agreeing with you tho. I WANT Chapman to start and feel it is a waste to have him in the pen. Im hoping that another year removed from tommy john that Arrendondo can be the pitcher he was in LA. If that was the case then Arrendondo, Masset, and Marshall would be awesome in the back end.

If Chapman is to start at all this year then he can't relieve for more than a month or so or you might as well keep him in the pen all year.Let him have longer relief appearances and when the pen is completely healthy send him to Louisville for a few weeks then bring him up for that second half push as a starter. By then Im sure someone will be hurt(crossing my fingers so that doesnt happen) or maybe Bailey will be traded. I feel like he could be David Price circa 2008

How do we know Francis can't be effective in one inning outings and he is a lefty. also Chapman doesn't replace anyone yet in the rotation, he goes to AAA and works on building durablity and consistancy..