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View Full Version : Hi de Hi de ho Drew Stubbs has to go!!!



ShaySongz
04-08-2012, 03:24 PM
This is the same Drew Stubbs as pasted years, nothing changed Same approach 2-0 and 0-2. Swats more gnats than baseballs, when you stand by Stubbs you can feel a slight breeze. Ugh I'm sick of you Drew...someone call Dr. David Schneider

DGullett35
04-08-2012, 03:37 PM
Only 2.5 games into the season..let him get at least until May 1st before such a drastic measure is taken..Im on the verge of agreeing with you however

Ironman92
04-08-2012, 03:57 PM
At some point you are no longer young. His opportunities at a young point in his career are far numerous than everyone else Dusty has taken in.....but he is fast

ShaySongz
04-08-2012, 04:16 PM
he swings for the fence down in the count hate it, never slaps the ball the other way. wants to pull everything. Tired of seeing it.

BigJohn
04-08-2012, 04:18 PM
I have said it before, he should have a permanent bunt sign.
:laugh:

ukwazoo
04-08-2012, 04:23 PM
Lot of one-trick ponies in this lineup

DGullett35
04-08-2012, 04:28 PM
At least he's batting in the bottom of the lineup. Maybe Heisey should get some starts in center and Stubbs will get the hint he should change that approach and start playing better

justincredible
04-08-2012, 04:48 PM
Stubbs' speed just won us this game.

bigredmechanism
04-08-2012, 04:55 PM
Stubbs' speed just won us this game.

Indeed. He still needs to prove that he should continue starting, but the win does not happen in that fashion without Drew.

LaFlamaBlanca
04-08-2012, 05:10 PM
In no way shape or form am I writing Drew Stubbs off.. But if he doesn't make some changes sooner or later, he will be Corey Patterson pt. 2.

DGullett35
04-08-2012, 05:18 PM
His speed makes up for his K's only if he can get on base..Scoring that winning run made the other horrible at bats he had today seem not so bad. However Im with you LaFlamaBlanca in that he better shape up real soon or Heisey is going to take his spot permanently, and Ludwick will be our starter in left day in and day out

Birdman007
04-08-2012, 08:04 PM
His speed makes up for his K's only if he can get on base..Scoring that winning run made the other horrible at bats he had today seem not so bad. However Im with you LaFlamaBlanca in that he better shape up real soon or Heisey is going to take his spot permanently, and Ludwick will be our starter in left day in and day out

Stubbs still seems to be doing a lot of the same things as he has the part couple of years but he'll never lose his everyday job to Heisey when Heisey strikes out at close to the same rate Stubbs does.

DocRed
04-08-2012, 08:15 PM
I saw the same thing 2 nights in a row. 2-0 count, takes a strike down the middle. Then strikes out on 2 breaking balls down and away. The guy won't or can't change....

DGullett35
04-08-2012, 08:15 PM
Heisey may strike out alot but not as much as Drew and if Heisey was to play 150 games he would probably have 30 HR and 90 RBI..Also I bet he'd hit .265 or better. His numbers would be better than Stubbs. Stubbs would have him beat on steals and overall outfield defense and that would be about it

brm7675
04-08-2012, 08:58 PM
I saw the same thing 2 nights in a row. 2-0 count, takes a strike down the middle. Then strikes out on 2 breaking balls down and away. The guy won't or can't change....

Change doesn't happen overnight..

DGullett35
04-08-2012, 09:00 PM
Change happens in the offseason and in spring training. So dont count on any changes here in mid-season

Ironman92
04-08-2012, 09:09 PM
I don't think Dusty sees any need for change.

Birdman007
04-08-2012, 09:12 PM
Heisey may strike out alot but not as much as Drew and if Heisey was to play 150 games he would probably have 30 HR and 90 RBI..Also I bet he'd hit .265 or better. His numbers would be better than Stubbs. Stubbs would have him beat on steals and overall outfield defense and that would be about it

I could maybe see the 30 hrs but he'd never hit .265 through a full season. He can't hit lefties, that's why he doesn't play everyday LF already.

improbus
04-08-2012, 09:21 PM
Heisey may strike out alot but not as much as Drew and if Heisey was to play 150 games he would probably have 30 HR and 90 RBI..Also I bet he'd hit .265 or better. His numbers would be better than Stubbs. Stubbs would have him beat on steals and overall outfield defense and that would be about it

Let's make sure Heisey can hit anything other than a fastball before we start him 150 games.

Here is a very informative article on Heisey from fangraphs. Let's just say that it is not too positive.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-should-the-reds-do-with-left-field/

The most interesting takes is that he has one of the worst contact rates in baseball.

Larry Schuler
04-08-2012, 09:29 PM
When the Reds pitchers blow leads it makes me angry at Drew Stubbs' strike outs. But when the Reds end up winning I suddenly become OK with him.

LeDoux
04-08-2012, 09:32 PM
Let's make sure Heisey can hit anything other than a fastball before we start him 150 games.

Here is a very informative article on Heisey from fangraphs. Let's just say that it is not too positive.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-should-the-reds-do-with-left-field/

The most interesting takes is that he has one of the worst contact rates in baseball.

An interesting piece. It comes down to low contact RHer 1 or low contact RHer 2. The tie breaker has to be defense, but I don't think there is a clear winner there either.

At least Stubbs is no longer in the 2 hole. I call that real progress.

DGullett35
04-08-2012, 09:37 PM
After reading that i agree..my bad. he still would hit 30 HR and have 90 RBI. The average would be bad but I still would like to see what he could do starting more than he does now

Ironman92
04-08-2012, 09:47 PM
After reading that i agree..my bad. he still would hit 30 HR and have 90 RBI. The average would be bad but I still would like to see what he could do starting more than he does now

The key is the opportunities. Drew Stubbs has had every possible opportunity since he was brought up. Heisey was their minor league POY and even much of last year would rarely get back-to-back starts. I don't think he's the next George Foster but I want to see him like I saw Stubbs the past two years to really see. It's impossible to get a complete grasp on his hitting when he starts every other game. Look how crappy Renteria was last year until they started playing him after Cozaet went down. It's OK for Stubbs and Bruce to struggle mightily with huge holes in their swings....but not Heisey....I don't understand how anyone can really say what Heisey would do....especially compared to how close his numbers were to Stubbs last year with 300 fewer AB

Moosie52
04-08-2012, 11:30 PM
The guy scored the winning run today.

Jdattilo
04-09-2012, 12:01 AM
Don't recall Stubbs hitting in the two hole, but I'm glad he's not leading off.

LeDoux
04-09-2012, 12:19 AM
Don't recall Stubbs hitting in the two hole, but I'm glad he's not leading off.

Dangit. You're right. CF leads off, SS is 2nd. Don't tell anyone. I will get send back to remedial Bakermetrics.

jhiller21
04-09-2012, 03:17 AM
Teams will keep giving him fastballs early up and breaking pitches, low and away, until the end of time unless he learns to adjust to them.

With his speed he should be slapping the ball, not hitting for power. The chopper he hit today won us the game.

jhiller21
04-09-2012, 03:17 AM
Teams will keep giving him fastballs early up and breaking pitches, low and away, until the end of time unless he learns to adjust to them.

With his speed he should be slapping the ball, not hitting for power. The chopper he hit today won us the game.

mikdavrut
04-09-2012, 09:44 AM
Dangit. You're right. CF leads off, SS is 2nd. Don't tell anyone. I will get send back to remedial Bakermetrics.
Yeah, you need to keep an eye on that - gotta keep that mind a bit "sharper", you DO NOT want to have to go back through the basic Bakermetrics course again.

It's the equivalent of being in college & taking your basic associates/bachelors requirements (ie...your English I's and II's & Sociology/Psychology, etc. etc.), yet since you (not saying you personally of course, just as an example here) were never all that great with math (or it has been a while & you've forgotten it since HS), you have to begin your college algebra courses about 3 courses below actual college algebra. Not to veer too far off the topic of Bakermetrics here, but I began college @ age 25, had screwed around my last couple of years of HS & I had to (well, chose to actually, but it was a wise choice) start @ one algebra course beneath actual college algebra. (Long story short, it ended up being a very wise choice...I aced the actual CA when I took it and ended up moving on up and acing Calculus I - IV afterwards).

I point that out, not to brag that I actually ended up having quite the knack for math after all as it turned out, BUT - and here is the IMPORTANT lesson here - that ANYONE, if they in turn APPLY themselves and do their classwork and study hard, absolutely & unequivocally CAN succeed in Bakermetrics, whether we are talking remedial BM's or whether we are talking about advanced BM's.

So don't sweat that little mistake you made too hard. Just brush up on your past-learned BM's a bit and I'm relatively certain that you can begin the more advanced Bakermetrics course(s) along with myself and several other Sun Deck (and possibly even ORG members). Classes begin soon, are filling up very quickly, and I, for one, am looking very forward to beginning another exciting journey in this rather "unique" field of study!

So here's to wishing yourself and the others here nothing less than pure success as we begin this next and further advanced level of BM's study. :beerme:

bmwreds31
04-09-2012, 11:17 AM
Stubbs bunt got everybodies hopes up for ZOMG this kid may have just became a ball player.

But since the bunt hes looked just like the old stubbs or maybe a tad worse at the plate.

He needs to cut down his swing and bunt more often, not all the time, but more often, and his career would take off. I would say by all-star break if he still hasnt made these adjustments than changes need to be made.

texasdave
04-09-2012, 11:30 AM
Is the phrase 'remedial Bakermetrics' redundant?

brm7675
04-09-2012, 11:58 AM
Could it be the Reds don't want him to change his approach at the plate? I mean either Dusty is okay with the strikeouts or he isn't and since Stubbs keeps playing that would lead me to believe Dusty is okay with that and sees other value Stubbs brings to the team.

Grouse
04-09-2012, 02:07 PM
Could it be the Reds don't want him to change his approach at the plate? I mean either Dusty is okay with the strikeouts or he isn't and since Stubbs keeps playing that would lead me to believe Dusty is okay with that and sees other value Stubbs brings to the team.

I would like to believe that my beloved Reds would not be content with a guys batting approach, that almost set the all time strikeout record. I don't care what other value the player has. I bet they are trying to improve on that.

LeDoux
04-09-2012, 04:26 PM
Is the phrase 'remedial Bakermetrics' redundant?

I think the term Baker-metrics is an oxymoron. Dusty does not strike me as a guy who approaches anything is baseball with an eye for careful measurment.

But- I guess that is the joke.

LeDoux
04-09-2012, 04:29 PM
Yeah, you need to keep an eye on that - gotta keep that mind a bit "sharper", you DO NOT want to have to go back through the basic Bakermetrics course again.

It's the equivalent of being in college & taking your basic associates/bachelors requirements (ie...your English I's and II's & Sociology/Psychology, etc. etc.), yet since you (not saying you personally of course, just as an example here) were never all that great with math (or it has been a while & you've forgotten it since HS), you have to begin your college algebra courses about 3 courses below actual college algebra. Not to veer too far off the topic of Bakermetrics here, but I began college @ age 25, had screwed around my last couple of years of HS & I had to (well, chose to actually, but it was a wise choice) start @ one algebra course beneath actual college algebra. (Long story short, it ended up being a very wise choice...I aced the actual CA when I took it and ended up moving on up and acing Calculus I - IV afterwards).

I point that out, not to brag that I actually ended up having quite the knack for math after all as it turned out, BUT - and here is the IMPORTANT lesson here - that ANYONE, if they in turn APPLY themselves and do their classwork and study hard, absolutely & unequivocally CAN succeed in Bakermetrics, whether we are talking remedial BM's or whether we are talking about advanced BM's.

So don't sweat that little mistake you made too hard. Just brush up on your past-learned BM's a bit and I'm relatively certain that you can begin the more advanced Bakermetrics course(s) along with myself and several other Sun Deck (and possibly even ORG members). Classes begin soon, are filling up very quickly, and I, for one, am looking very forward to beginning another exciting journey in this rather "unique" field of study!

So here's to wishing yourself and the others here nothing less than pure success as we begin this next and further advanced level of BM's study. :beerme:

Calculus! What a waste of time. In Bakermetrics we are taught to properly eyeball everything. No need for your numbers vodoo.

mu4103
04-09-2012, 05:45 PM
Let's make sure Heisey can hit anything other than a fastball before we start him 150 games.

Here is a very informative article on Heisey from fangraphs. Let's just say that it is not too positive.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-should-the-reds-do-with-left-field/

The most interesting takes is that he has one of the worst contact rates in baseball.

Chris Heisey has had a 28% strikeout rate in the majors (very high number though below Stubbs and Bruce I believe). His minor league numbers were a touch below 16%. So to say that his K numbers were not that much different in the minors as compared to the pros would seem to me to be incorrect.

But, there are things a couple of important factors that are not being considered in all of the Heisey strikes out a lot talk:

1. Heisey was one of the best pinch hitters in baseball last year. When you are a pinch hitter you are seeing the other teams best pitchers - the guys with the most heat - most often. Obviously you are going to strikeout a lot more against a closer who throws gas for one inning than you are against a starter.

2. Heisey's playing time was erratic and unpredicatable. It is tough to get a rhythym going when you don't know when you are going to play. The one time Dusty did call him and let him know that he was going to start the next day, what did Chris do? He went out and hit 3 homeruns.

I have heard scouts (in newspapers) talk about a change in Heisey's swing since he has been in the majors. They said it seemed very smooth almost perfectly fundamental (if I remember right) and it seems to have changed in the majors. Having said that Heisey worked a lot this summer and I believed lost some weight and I expect will be a major threat on the basepaths (led the Reds in Spring Training with 5 SB) if given the PT.

So my point is the K numbers are not accurate, because he was a pinch hitter so often facing the toughest pitchers on the opposing teams. As far as the contact % numbers, I don't know how to look those up, but again the numbers are at the very least scewed because Heisey had so many at-bats coming off the bench in the late innings against the other teams best pitchers.

jwmann2
04-10-2012, 12:53 AM
If he is going to strike out 200 times per season, at least put up the same numbers as Mark Reynolds, Ryan Howard and Adam Dunn.

Norm Chortleton
04-10-2012, 01:03 AM
I could live with his Ks if he was simply swinging through pitches. But he literally gets fooled more than any other player I've ever seen. He either A) can't see or B) has no idea of the strike zone.

jwmann2
04-10-2012, 01:22 AM
He isn't sticking to the fundamentals of baseball. Never swing at the first pitch, work the count and swing at strikes.

S.Wells
04-10-2012, 01:22 PM
Sometimes I truly believe Stubbs has decided to swing or not swing before the ball has left the pitchers hand. How can you let a 2-0 fastball right down the pipe go and then swing at back to back yackers 3 feet off the plate. This kid needs to get some lessons from Mr. Charlie Hustle. If he learned to hit and play hard like Pete did this kid would be unstoppable!

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

Ironman92
04-10-2012, 02:42 PM
Sometimes I truly believe Stubbs has decided to swing or not swing before the ball has left the pitchers hand. How can you let a 2-0 fastball right down the pipe go and then swing at back to back yackers 3 feet off the plate. This kid needs to get some lessons from Mr. Charlie Hustle. If he learned to hit and play hard like Pete did this kid would be unstoppable!

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

How is someone who can't even slide on shallow balls in CF supposed to emulate Pete with some lessons?