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will5979
04-08-2012, 11:39 PM
How much longer is Bronson a red? Curious as to whether or not it would be a waste to buy his jersey.

DGullett35
04-08-2012, 11:42 PM
He will play out this contract unless we can get lucky and someone take him off our hands..But its likely after the contract he wont be here

DocRed
04-08-2012, 11:45 PM
He will play out this contract unless we can get lucky and someone take him off our hands..But its likely after the contract he wont be here
No GM is that dumb.

will5979
04-08-2012, 11:47 PM
Sonuva*****, someone please just tell me when his contract is up, this thread wasnt started to bash ba, I just want to know how much he will be a red before I buy his jersey.

LeDoux
04-08-2012, 11:58 PM
Sonuva*****, someone please just tell me when his contract is up, this thread wasnt started to bash ba, I just want to know how much he will be a red before I buy his jersey.

The end of 2013 if memory serves. Deferred money is paid immediatly if traded, so he will probably be here till the end.

will5979
04-09-2012, 12:01 AM
The end of 2013 if memory serves. Deferred money is paid immediatly if traded, so he will probably be here till the end.

Thank you, that is not long for me to spend that much on a jersey. Guess I'll buy a Bruce or Phillips if he re-signs.

Birdman007
04-09-2012, 12:47 AM
Thank you, that is not long for me to spend that much on a jersey. Guess I'll buy a Bruce or Phillips if he re-signs.
You could buy a Votto jersey. He's here until 2023. :)

LaFlamaBlanca
04-09-2012, 02:17 AM
Um, have you seen Bronson pitch recently? :D

will5979
04-09-2012, 08:23 AM
You could buy a Votto jersey. He's here until 2023. :)

Already have one, plus his jersey shirt!

brm7675
04-09-2012, 11:58 AM
How much longer is Bronson a red? Curious as to whether or not it would be a waste to buy his jersey.

He's a Red till the end of his contract...

brm7675
04-09-2012, 12:02 PM
Um, have you seen Bronson pitch recently? :D

He pitched six strong innings yesterday and HAD the manager done what good managers do and see he was done and brought Chapman in to pitch the 7 and 8th Bronson probably would have gotten his first win of the season.

DocRed
04-09-2012, 12:06 PM
Um, have you seen Bronson pitch recently? :D

Probably dirt cheap. Might be able to find them at Dollar General store.

bigredmechanism
04-09-2012, 12:07 PM
He pitched six strong innings yesterday and HAD the manager done what good managers do and see he was done and brought Chapman in to pitch the 7 and 8th Bronson probably would have gotten his first win of the season.

What happened yesterday shouldn't be on Dusty.

BA was at 70 pitches through 6 strong innings. You wouldn't have someone up and throwing in the pen for that. After the HBP, everything was happening on the first pitch of the ABs, so there was no extra time to get someone warm.

He melted down, fast, but you can't put that on Baker this time.

will5979
04-09-2012, 12:07 PM
Probably dirt cheap. Might be able to find them at Dollar General store.

Thats harsh!

R_Webb18
04-09-2012, 12:23 PM
What happened yesterday shouldn't be on Dusty.

BA was at 70 pitches through 6 strong innings. You wouldn't have someone up and throwing in the pen for that. After the HBP, everything was happening on the first pitch of the ABs, so there was no extra time to get someone warm.

He melted down, fast, but you can't put that on Baker this time.

disagree with that bronson needs some1 ready after 6 at all times

Maker_84
04-09-2012, 02:10 PM
i don't think Bronson would fare well at all in the Bullpen where he is still at least average as a SP while Chapman is lights out in both. Just using players right now where they fit best i guess

brm7675
04-09-2012, 02:24 PM
What happened yesterday shouldn't be on Dusty.

BA was at 70 pitches through 6 strong innings. You wouldn't have someone up and throwing in the pen for that. After the HBP, everything was happening on the first pitch of the ABs, so there was no extra time to get someone warm.

He melted down, fast, but you can't put that on Baker this time.

Yes I can, if you were watching him he should have never started the 7th. You have chapman well rested you pitch him 7 and 8 and Marshall in the 9th...why else have a bullpen if not to use them. Again we have a manager with no on field skills...

will5979
04-09-2012, 02:32 PM
Yes I can, if you were watching him he should have never started the 7th. You have chapman well rested you pitch him 7 and 8 and Marshall in the 9th...why else have a bullpen if not to use them. Again we have a manager with no on field skills...

What you said.

bigredmechanism
04-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Yes I can, if you were watching him he should have never started the 7th. You have chapman well rested you pitch him 7 and 8 and Marshall in the 9th...why else have a bullpen if not to use them. Again we have a manager with no on field skills...

So you are in favor of warming up our bullpen when: (1) our innings eater has pitched well through 6 innings, (2) our innings eater only has 70 pitches thrown after 6 innings, (3) our BP was used heavily the night before, and (4) our BP is already depleted from injuries.

With those tactics, our bullpen will be shot by July. If Dusty did what you want, he would truly earn his title of Arm Destroyer.

brm7675
04-09-2012, 03:58 PM
So you are in favor of warming up our bullpen when: (1) our innings eater has pitched well through 6 innings, (2) our innings eater only has 70 pitches thrown after 6 innings, (3) our BP was used heavily the night before, and (4) our BP is already depleted from injuries.

With those tactics, our bullpen will be shot by July. If Dusty did what you want, he would truly earn his title of Arm Destroyer.

No I believe in having a game plan. If my starter can give me a strong 6 then I have my bullpen ready to go in the 7th unless the starter is flat out nasty on the mound which Bronson wasn't. If you watched the game you could see the Fish were getting more and more comfortable with Bronson, so in the 6th I get Chapman up since he had both Friday and Saturday off. The amount of pitches should never be a factor, you have to evaluate how he is pitching, and where you are in the game. No our bullpen was misused the night before, not overused...HUGE difference. After Matt had to go you bring in Sam and he should be able to give you at least 2 innings maybe 3. Also why is Bray in the pen if he is "unable" to go? If he is still in ST mode then send him to AAA and bring up say Francis or even give Hoover a try. Again back to poor mag't, not the players...

bigredmechanism
04-09-2012, 04:05 PM
That game plan would blow out our bullpen by July. Getting pitchers warm and not using them in the game doesn't change the fact that they threw the ball.

BTW I did watch the game, so you can quit it with the assumption that I did not. It is condescending and unnecessary.

texasdave
04-09-2012, 05:06 PM
That game plan would blow out our bullpen by July.

So, you mean, exactly like last year?

bigredmechanism
04-09-2012, 05:09 PM
So, you mean, exactly like last year?

Precisely like last year. We need our starters to go deep. If they are coming out due to ineffectiveness or manager paranoia we will have a repeat of 2011.

texasdave
04-09-2012, 05:15 PM
Precisely like last year. We need our starters to go deep. If they are coming out due to ineffectiveness or manager paranoia we will have a repeat of 2011.

Getting six innings out of a starter in his first start of the year is reasonable IMO. Having a pitcher in the bullpen that, illogically, a manager will not use from the 7th inning on - just because - is unreasonable. I am already worried about Chapman's arm if he stays in the pen. Dusty will overuse him to death I am afraid.

bigredmechanism
04-09-2012, 05:24 PM
Getting six innings out of a starter in his first start of the year is reasonable IMO. Having a pitcher in the bullpen that, illogically, a manager will not use from the 7th inning on - just because - is unreasonable. I am already worried about Chapman's arm if he stays in the pen. Dusty will overuse him to death I am afraid.

I don't want Chapman overused, either. But getting him up and throwing when there is a decent chance you wont need him would contribute to wearing him down IMO.

I agree that six innings is just fine, but at 70 pitches and a good line, you expect at least one more before you start warming up the guy you don't want to overuse.

brm7675
04-09-2012, 05:31 PM
That game plan would blow out our bullpen by July. Getting pitchers warm and not using them in the game doesn't change the fact that they threw the ball.

BTW I did watch the game, so you can quit it with the assumption that I did not. It is condescending and unnecessary.

Then how can you not tell Bronson was done after 6? Also how would it blow our our pen by July? The fact is Dusty again reacts instead of being proactive...which equals losing more times then not..

IamRV
04-09-2012, 05:32 PM
I don't want Chapman overused, either. But getting him up and throwing when there is a decent chance you wont need him would contribute to wearing him down IMO.

I agree that six innings is just fine, but at 70 pitches and a good line, you expect at least one more before you start warming up the guy you don't want to overuse.

Once the second guy got on wouldn't you agree it's time to get a guy up that could put out the fire? I would've made the call down when the first batter reached and then stalled for time. Did we do any of these things? No.

Once the guy doubles and brings them within one and you have runners on second and third with no one out it's time to bring in a guy that can get a K or two. Someone like say .... Chapman.

The game was still in our favor at that time but IDIOT waits until the wheels fall off and we blow the lead. OMG, what else can be said?

brm7675
04-09-2012, 05:37 PM
Precisely like last year. We need our starters to go deep. If they are coming out due to ineffectiveness or manager paranoia we will have a repeat of 2011.

what is "deep" in your opinion?

brm7675
04-09-2012, 05:38 PM
I don't want Chapman overused, either. But getting him up and throwing when there is a decent chance you wont need him would contribute to wearing him down IMO.

I agree that six innings is just fine, but at 70 pitches and a good line, you expect at least one more before you start warming up the guy you don't want to overuse.

What is wrong for using Chapman for 2 innings? Have a plan of say if Bronson goes 6 we start the 7th with Chapman no matter how Bronson is pitching before the game even starts...

texasdave
04-09-2012, 05:45 PM
I don't want Chapman overused, either. But getting him up and throwing when there is a decent chance you wont need him would contribute to wearing him down IMO.

I agree that six innings is just fine, but at 70 pitches and a good line, you expect at least one more before you start warming up the guy you don't want to overuse.

How about getting Bill Bray up and ready? He hasn't pitched an inning yet. And if Dusty doesn't trust him to get through an inning unscatched what is he doing on the 25-man roster? That just makes a short bullpen even shorter.

And look at these numbers from last year. Let's assume that if a pitcher makes it to the 7th inning he is pitching well. That shouldn't be too controversial.

Here are Arroyo's 7th-inning numbers from 2011.
He pitched into the 7th inning 19 times. He made it through the 7th inning 8 times. Less than half. Not too encouraging. His ERA in the 7th inning was 7.89. Batters hit .345 last year in the 7th against Bronson. His OPSA was 1.136. I know it is not the largest sample size but don't those numbers have to figure into the equation at least somewhat?

bigredmechanism
04-09-2012, 06:03 PM
How about getting Bill Bray up and ready? He hasn't pitched an inning yet. And if Dusty doesn't trust him to get through an inning unscatched what is he doing on the 25-man roster? That just makes a short bullpen even shorter.

And look at these numbers from last year. Let's assume that if a pitcher makes it to the 7th inning he is pitching well. That shouldn't be too controversial.

Here are Arroyo's 7th-inning numbers from 2011.
He pitched into the 7th inning 19 times. He made it through the 7th inning 8 times. Less than half. Not too encouraging. His ERA in the 7th inning was 7.89. Batters hit .345 last year in the 7th against Bronson. His OPSA was 1.136. I know it is not the largest sample size but don't those numbers have to figure into the equation at least somewhat?

They definitely factor in, Dave. I just re watched the inning. Started a timer once Dobbs was HBP. Looks to be that we made the call to have Logan warming up ~2:30 later, after 2 first-pitch hits. I don't know of a reliever that could be even close to ready in that time anyway. Maybe you could argue that after the first hit we could have had someone up, but that would have saved ~1.5 minutes. Again, not enough time to make a meaningful difference.

I agree that if a guy doesn't have it, he needs to be pulled. But this whole notion that he left him in too long isn't really a fair argument when the guy was at 70 pitches to start the inning.

As for Bray, I don't think he should be with the club if he is not pitching. I don't know who made that decision but i don't agree with it. Regardless of whether Bray was there of not, I doubt Baker would have had him warming any earlier than Logan.

brm7675
04-09-2012, 06:24 PM
They definitely factor in, Dave. I just re watched the inning. Started a timer once Dobbs was HBP. Looks to be that we made the call to have Logan warming up ~2:30 later, after 2 first-pitch hits. I don't know of a reliever that could be even close to ready in that time anyway. Maybe you could argue that after the first hit we could have had someone up, but that would have saved ~1.5 minutes. Again, not enough time to make a meaningful difference.

I agree that if a guy doesn't have it, he needs to be pulled. But this whole notion that he left him in too long isn't really a fair argument when the guy was at 70 pitches to start the inning.

As for Bray, I don't think he should be with the club if he is not pitching. I don't know who made that decision but i don't agree with it. Regardless of whether Bray was there of not, I doubt Baker would have had him warming any earlier than Logan.

What does 70 pitches have to do with anything?

texasdave
04-09-2012, 06:32 PM
They definitely factor in, Dave. I just re watched the inning. Started a timer once Dobbs was HBP. Looks to be that we made the call to have Logan warming up ~2:30 later, after 2 first-pitch hits. I don't know of a reliever that could be even close to ready in that time anyway. Maybe you could argue that after the first hit we could have had someone up, but that would have saved ~1.5 minutes. Again, not enough time to make a meaningful difference.

I agree that if a guy doesn't have it, he needs to be pulled. But this whole notion that he left him in too long isn't really a fair argument when the guy was at 70 pitches to start the inning.

As for Bray, I don't think he should be with the club if he is not pitching. I don't know who made that decision but i don't agree with it. Regardless of whether Bray was there of not, I doubt Baker would have had him warming any earlier than Logan.

Well the Reds won so it is water under the bridge. I did go back to Gameday to check out Bronson's pitches in the seventh. He threw two fastballs in the inning, one clocked 84 and the other 85. Not good.

herbdizzle
04-09-2012, 06:59 PM
I think it was OK to send Bronson out in the 7th but we should have had someone warming up as soon as the Marlins had a guy reach base. The key in situations like yesterday is to avoid having your SP be put in a position to take a loss. Bronson had pitched 6 strong innings and was in line for a win but poor time management and preemptive bullpen planning put him in an unnecessary position to take a loss.

We should not even be having discussions about the bullpen being "tired" 3 games into the season. Dusty could have used Bray, Chapman, Ondrusek, or even Arredondo to get through the 7th & 8th to get to Marshall. The Reds bailed themselves out yesterday but these are the exact type situations that Dusty's mediocre game management skills come to the forefront.

All in all I was pleased with Bronson's outing yesterday and feel a little better about him going forward.

brm7675
04-09-2012, 07:05 PM
Shouldn't we be asking is "IF" dusty doens't feel Bray is major league ready right now to use...WHY IN THE HECK IS HE ON THE ROSTER...?

bigredmechanism
04-09-2012, 07:09 PM
Well the Reds won so it is water under the bridge. I did go back to Gameday to check out Bronson's pitches in the seventh. He threw two fastballs in the inning, one clocked 84 and the other 85. Not good.

Thanks to Bruce, crisis averted.

I hope Bronson can get that fastball a little more lively going forward, though.

LaFlamaBlanca
04-09-2012, 08:14 PM
What I have learned from this thread:

1. If a baserunner reaches first, a reliever should be warmed up immediately.
2. No starter except Cueto, and maybe Latos, should ever see the light of the 8th inning.
3. There are a lot of people who expect Dusty to have a crystal ball.

Arroyo's stuff was obviously declining in the 7th after he allowed 2 base runners, so Dusty warmed someone up. No WAY they could've gotten ready in time to prevent what happened. If Arroyo looked good in the 6th, and was on 70 pitches, how could Dusty possibly predict what happened?

texasdave
04-09-2012, 11:04 PM
What I have learned from this thread:

1. If a baserunner reaches first, a reliever should be warmed up immediately.
2. No starter except Cueto, and maybe Latos, should ever see the light of the 8th inning.
3. There are a lot of people who expect Dusty to have a crystal ball.

Arroyo's stuff was obviously declining in the 7th after he allowed 2 base runners, so Dusty warmed someone up. No WAY they could've gotten ready in time to prevent what happened. If Arroyo looked good in the 6th, and was on 70 pitches, how could Dusty possibly predict what happened?

I suppose you could go back to prior appearances and see how Arroyo fared from the 7th inning on. Just a thought.