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oneupper
04-09-2012, 08:34 AM
Marlins' Ozzie Guillen backtracks on 'love' of Castro

My compatriota never ceases to entertain...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/marlins/story/2012-04-08/Ozzie-Guillen-Fidel-Castro/54119128/1

Dan
04-09-2012, 08:38 AM
You know, the way that Miami is trying to appeal to their Hispanic and particularly their Cuban fan-base, it isn't entirely unreasonable that Guillen could be fired over these remarks. I doubt it would happen, but if it turns off fans to the team after they took great pains to build the park where they built it, and bring in Hispanic and cuban players and coaches, Guillen expressing man-love for Castro could very easily undermine the club's credibility.

MartyFan
04-09-2012, 11:41 AM
He is SUCH AN IDIOT...Not an entertaining one (to me) but simply just a FOOL.

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2012, 11:58 AM
To a lot of the Cuban expatriates down in South Florida, this comment is probably close to the same level as Marge Schott's infamous remarks about Hitler being good "in the beginning."

Reds Fanatic
04-09-2012, 12:02 PM
They are already Cuban American groups boycotting the Marlins and calling for Guillen to be fired.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Cuban-American-Group-To-Boycott-Miami-Marlins-146600455.html?dr

The Operator
04-09-2012, 12:08 PM
He may have really done himself in this time. He's probably come to think that he can say whatever he wants whenever he wants since he's been making ridiculous comments his entire career, but there are still some lines you can't cross.

This would offend people in almost any American city, but Miami? Seriously Ozzie?!? What a stupid, stupid man he is.

oneupper
04-09-2012, 12:57 PM
Ozzie was already in hot water with Venezuelan "exiles" here in S. Florida for his comments on Chavez.
That may not be an issue for much longer however.

CarolinaRedleg
04-09-2012, 12:58 PM
The Miami Jets are going to be a fun trainwreck to keep an eye on this year....:laugh:

Cedric
04-09-2012, 01:08 PM
I think he should be fired immediately. I can't believe how incredibly stupid this guy can be. Or maybe he has always gotten just a slap on the wrist before and people overlooked other things.

Reds Fanatic
04-09-2012, 01:15 PM
Guillen is flying back to Miami in the middle of the Marlins road trip to hold a press conference tomorrow to try to get out of this mess he created:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7791970/ozzie-guillen-miami-marlins-return-city-answer-questions-fidel-castro-comments

RedEye
04-09-2012, 01:20 PM
What is it, exactly, that this guy is supposed to be adding to major league teams when he manages them? For years, all I've been able to see is utter incompetence. Whatever you think about Castro, you've just got to know that this is not something you can say as the manager of the Miami Marlins. Unbelievable.

oregonred
04-09-2012, 01:21 PM
Venzuelans and Cubans are two powerful groups in South Florida with high baseball interest and high disposable income with a large power base in Miami-Dade and upscale South Broward areas like Weston and Davie. Most of whom came to South Florida to avoid the repression from comrades Hugo and Fidel. Now Ozzie has managed to deeply offend both groups by the middle of his first weekend series.

Ozzie's comment is so idiotic it almost defies description - even by Guillen standards. This is just somewhere you don't want to go down here in SoFla and something that no local public figure should say to the press. The marlins are in an interesting dilemma on this one. Also the Cuban County Commissioners were the ones that made all the difference on the stadium vote a few months back. Remember the new Marlins Park sits in Little Havana...

Rojo
04-09-2012, 03:03 PM
They need to vet the next manager's politics first.

Larkin Fan
04-09-2012, 03:18 PM
They hired Ozzie Guillen. What exactly did they expect?

RedlegJake
04-09-2012, 03:25 PM
Anyone who isn't brain dead knows there are certain people you cannot admire in any way and certain topics you best not broach if you are in the public eye. How hard is it not to make an idiotic statement like that? Evidently for Ozzie its plenty difficult.

Always Red
04-09-2012, 03:50 PM
Guillen is flying back to Miami in the middle of the Marlins road trip to hold a press conference tomorrow to try to get out of this mess he created:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7791970/ozzie-guillen-miami-marlins-return-city-answer-questions-fidel-castro-comments

3 games in and he's doing damage control already, eh?

Add Zambrano to that mix, and it will be a very exciting year in Miami.

George Anderson
04-09-2012, 04:30 PM
Reds fans can hardly take the moral high ground on this issue when our very own Johnnie B. Baker opened his mouth several years ago while with the Cubs and spewed some horrible, ignorant, racist stereotypes. Hardly a peep was made by the fans or Cincy media when Johnny B. was hired by the Reds. So for us to criticize Ozzie on this issue and call for his firing makes us look just a tad bit hypocritical IMO.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cubs/2003-07-07-baker_x.htm

savafan
04-09-2012, 04:35 PM
I don't see why we should call for someone to lose their job over expressing their opinion. It's not like he said that all of his players and the entire Marlins organization feels the same way that he does. We've become far too sensitive in this country demanding people apologize for how they feel.

camisadelgolf
04-09-2012, 04:39 PM
Reds fans can hardly take the moral high ground on this issue when our very own Johnnie B. Baker opened his mouth several years ago while with the Cubs and spewed some horrible, ignorant, racist stereotypes. Hardly a peep was made by the fans or Cincy media when Johnny B. was hired by the Reds. So for us to criticize Ozzie on this issue and call for his firing makes us look just a tad bit hypocritical IMO.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cubs/2003-07-07-baker_x.htm
You're comparing a guy who works in the largest Cuban market in America--who said that he loves and respects Fidel Castro--to Dusty Baker, who said that white people can't handle hot weather as well as blacks/Latinos. I think you could make a reasonable argument that what Baker said shouldn't have even been considered offensive. Honestly, I don't think Guillen's comments should be considered offensive either, but they're on two different levels.

"What I meant is that blacks and Latins take the heat better than most whites, and whites take the cold better than most blacks and Latins. That's it, pure and simple. Nothing deeper than that."

“I respect Fidel Castro,” he is quoted as saying. “You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that [expletive] is still here.”

The Operator
04-09-2012, 04:44 PM
Reds fans can hardly take the moral high ground on this issue when our very own Johnnie B. Baker opened his mouth several years ago while with the Cubs and spewed some horrible, ignorant, racist stereotypes. Hardly a peep was made by the fans or Cincy media when Johnny B. was hired by the Reds.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cubs/2003-07-07-baker_x.htmI was expecting way worse then that with the way you described it. That was a silly thing of Baker to say, but it pales in comparison to Ozzie professing his man love for Fidel Castro.

Rojo
04-09-2012, 04:44 PM
I don't see why we should call for someone to lose their job over expressing their opinion. It's not like he said that all of his players and the entire Marlins organization feels the same way that he does. We've become far too sensitive in this country demanding people apologize for how they feel.

Yes.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/mlb/tony-larussa-supports-arizona-immigration-law-video/

George Anderson
04-09-2012, 04:52 PM
You're comparing a guy who works in the largest Cuban market in America--who said that he loves and respects Fidel Castro--to Dusty Baker, who said that white people can't handle hot weather as well as blacks/Latinos. I think you could make a reasonable argument that what Baker said shouldn't have even been considered offensive. Honestly, I don't think Guillen's comments should be considered offensive either, but they're on two different levels.

Oh I thought stereotyping people and making generalizations about their race was considered racist. Silly me.

I guess had a white manager made similar comment that blacks and Latinos could not play in cold weather cities because they couldn't handle cold weather as well as whites do we should consider that equally nonracist or offensive as Bakers comments.

UKFlounder
04-09-2012, 04:59 PM
I don't see why we should call for someone to lose their job over expressing their opinion. It's not like he said that all of his players and the entire Marlins organization feels the same way that he does. We've become far too sensitive in this country demanding people apologize for how they feel.


I can see that point of view, but if you're a businessman and one of your well-known and public employees pisses off many of your customers or potential customers, shouldn't it at least be a consideration? Or do you let his "right" to speak his opinion override your attempts to attract customers?

George Anderson
04-09-2012, 05:02 PM
I was expecting way worse then that with the way you described it. That was a silly thing of Baker to say, but it pales in comparison to Ozzie professing his man love for Fidel Castro.

Racism is racism. If a white manager stated similar offensive things about black players there would media outrage and the white manager would have been fired on the spot. However Dusty got a free pass and the same people on this board who are up in arms over Ozzie stating his political beliefs see no problem with this hypocrisy.

If we are going to call for people to be fired for saying offensive things then lets be consistent and hold the same standard to everyone regardless of skin color or if they happen to manage our own favorite team.

MikeThierry
04-09-2012, 05:29 PM
I don't see why we should call for someone to lose their job over expressing their opinion. It's not like he said that all of his players and the entire Marlins organization feels the same way that he does. We've become far too sensitive in this country demanding people apologize for how they feel.

He is the face of that franchise. If someone is in position of authority or high responsibility, they have a duty to be tactful.

savafan
04-09-2012, 05:39 PM
I can see that point of view, but if you're a businessman and one of your well-known and public employees pisses off many of your customers or potential customers, shouldn't it at least be a consideration? Or do you let his "right" to speak his opinion override your attempts to attract customers?

I can see that point of view as well, as it's the nature of society as we've allowed it to get to where everyone feels that they have a right to never be offended. It's on all of us for letting it get to this point, and we'll probably all eventually be held to a standard that exceeds where we stand as people.

_Sir_Charles_
04-09-2012, 05:40 PM
I hate racism just as much as the next guy. But you know, sometimes there a lot of truth in stereotypes. And say what you want about Baker, "in general" the comments he made are true. He shouldn't have said them, but it doesn't make them any less accurate.

_Sir_Charles_
04-09-2012, 05:43 PM
He is the face of that franchise. If someone is in position of authority or high responsibility, they have a duty to be tactful.

If you're talking about Ozzie, in general I agree, but you have to remember that the Marlins hired him in part BECAUSE he causes such a commotion. They WANT that attention on their club. So no, I don't see them putting a muzzle on him anytime soon. He'll get a public slap on the wrist maybe, but behind closed doors, they'll be saying keep on with what you're doing.

camisadelgolf
04-09-2012, 05:54 PM
Oh I thought stereotyping people and making generalizations about their race was considered racist. Silly me.

I guess had a white manager made similar comment that blacks and Latinos could not play in cold weather cities because they couldn't handle cold weather as well as whites do we should consider that equally nonracist or offensive as Bakers comments.
Generally, black people are more likely to enjoy rap more than white people do. So there. I guess that makes me a racist. In case it's relevant:
A.) On the census, I'm not white/caucasian.
B.) I voted for Obama.
C.) I've spent nearly my entire life living in black neighborhoods.
D.) I'm an equal rights activist.
E.) I believe that everyone is equal and simultaneously different.

I could go on. You bring up a good point, though. If a white manager had said that, there probably would've been more of an outcry. That's just how our corrupt, agenda-filled media works. But as far as I'm concerned, there's a huge difference between stereotypes and racism. Racism is when someone believes that discrimination is justified. I think you're confusing "stereotype" with "prejudice" or "bias". Dusty Baker said nothing negative about anyone in his quote. However, Guillen--knowingly or not--showed support for a dictator who has been responsible for denying the rights of and repressing millions of people.

George Anderson
04-09-2012, 06:25 PM
Dusty Baker said nothing negative about anyone in his quote. However, Guillen--knowingly or not--showed support for a dictator who has been responsible for denying the rights of and repressing millions of people.

I disagree, Dusty gave us insight into how he perceives people of certain races behave. That alone is a very negative thought process and ultimately could negatively affect a a players career or outcome of a game due to his ignorant beliefs of how certain races act as he perceives it. Remember this is the same guy who fills out the lineup card, so if there happened to be a game played on an incredibly hot afternoon Dusty could give in to his prejudices and bench Votto, Bruce or any other white player that he feels cannot handle the heat and replace then with a black or hispanic player.
Now I honestly do not believe Dusty does this but because he stated his beliefs of how certain players should be treated with playing time due to their race it raises the question or suspicion everytime he makes a move on the field if he is making a move due to his underlying racism. It really isn't a whole lot different than questioning Pete's moves on the field as a gambler.


I am not defending what Ozzie said, I simply see it as a combination of hypocrisy and comedy just how we attack what Ozzie said that is offensive to many but condone or just ignore what Baker said that is equally offensive to many.

camisadelgolf
04-09-2012, 06:42 PM
I disagree, Dusty gave us insight into how he perceives people of certain races behave. That alone is a very negative thought process and ultimately could negatively affect a a players career or outcome of a game due to his ignorant beliefs of how certain races act as he perceives it. Remember this is the same guy who fills out the lineup card, so if there happened to be a game played on an incredibly hot afternoon Dusty could give in to his prejudices and bench Votto, Bruce or any other white player that he feels cannot handle the heat and replace then with a black or hispanic player.
Now I honestly do not believe Dusty does this but because he stated his beliefs of how certain players should be treated with playing time due to their race it raises the question or suspicion everytime he makes a move on the field if he is making a move due to his underlying racism. It really isn't a whole lot different than questioning Pete's moves on the field as a gambler.


I am not defending what Ozzie said, I simply see it as a combination of hypocrisy and comedy just how we attack what Ozzie said that is offensive to many but condone or just ignore what Baker said that is equally offensive to many.
Okay, I get what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. Does Dusty stereotype? Well, he's human, so I'd say it's very likely. I do it, too. I worked as a server in a kosher deli next to a black neighborhood that was frequented by senior citizens, and let's just say the tips were exactly what I expected: less than anywhere else I've served. The stereotype appeared true in this case, but at no point did I use it against anyone.

Stereotypes aren't necessarily bad, but being prejudiced is. I'm not 100% convinced that Dusty factors a player's race when filling out the lineup card--in fact, that's one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard--but even if he does, his goal is to help his players by putting them in the best position to succeed. It's certainly ignorant to go about it that way, but it's not necessarily racist.

By the way, I don't know if you read the whole quote, but Dusty implied that the reason different races handle weather differently is due to their geography. More specifically, he mentioned there being less "brothers" up in Maine. When filling out the lineup card, if he has a black player from Maine on his team, do you really think he'd be more inclined to bench the black player during a colder game? If so, it sounds like Dusty has a bigger problem with state origin than he does race.

MikeThierry
04-09-2012, 06:45 PM
If you're talking about Ozzie, in general I agree, but you have to remember that the Marlins hired him in part BECAUSE he causes such a commotion. They WANT that attention on their club. So no, I don't see them putting a muzzle on him anytime soon. He'll get a public slap on the wrist maybe, but behind closed doors, they'll be saying keep on with what you're doing.

I don't think they thought he was going to make political statements though. They hired him to be the guy who sends down a minor league pitcher who fails to plunk a batter when ordered to (which really happened up in Chicago lol). They want attention given to their club but they want that attention to be on the field, not political statements off the field.

Playadlc
04-09-2012, 06:46 PM
I don't see why we should call for someone to lose their job over expressing their opinion. It's not like he said that all of his players and the entire Marlins organization feels the same way that he does. We've become far too sensitive in this country demanding people apologize for how they feel.

+1.

George Anderson
04-09-2012, 06:49 PM
By the way, I don't know if you read the whole quote, but Dusty implied that the reason different races handle weather differently is due to their geography. More specifically, he mentioned there being less "brothers" up in Maine. When filling out the lineup card, if he has a black player from Maine on his team, do you really think he'd be more inclined to bench the black player during a colder game? If so, it sounds like Dusty has a bigger problem with state origin than he does race.

I just think it was stupid for Dusty to even bring up race.

Dusty was stupid and so was Ozzie but lets forgive Dusty even though he refused to back down from his offensive statements but attack Ozzie ruthlessly although he has apologized profusely. Can anyone say hypocritical?

Cedric
04-09-2012, 07:16 PM
I just think it was stupid for Dusty to even bring up race.

Dusty was stupid and so was Ozzie but lets forgive Dusty even though he refused to back down from his offensive statements but attack Ozzie ruthlessly although he has apologized profusely. Can anyone say hypocritical?

Hypocritical means said situation has to be the same. This obviously isn't under any definition.

George Anderson
04-09-2012, 07:20 PM
Hypocritical means said situation has to be the same. This obviously isn't under any definition.

They both said stupid things.

It doesn't get much more the same than that.

Raisor
04-09-2012, 09:36 PM
Here's the difference: Dusty's comments, while stupid, didn't have any noticable effect on attendence. Guillen's, if the boycotts work, very well could. Alienating your base right off the back, when you're trying to build the brand, could have terrible outcomes for the team. If I was owner of the Marlins, I would be looking at a long suspension for him to try to rebuild trust with the fans. If that doesn't appease them then you have to fire him.

The Operator
04-09-2012, 09:39 PM
I don't think you will find many white people out there who were offended by Dusty's comments, outside of people wanting to play Devil's Advocate and talk about a double standard.

Guillen's comments are majorly offensive to one of the biggest and most powerful population groups in Florida. Big, big difference between the two.

corkedbat
04-09-2012, 09:42 PM
Fidel? Isn't that Juan's uncle? :evil:

George Anderson
04-09-2012, 11:11 PM
I don't think you will find many white people out there who were offended by Dusty's comments, outside of people wanting to play Devil's Advocate and talk about a double standard.

Guillen's comments are majorly offensive to one of the biggest and most powerful population groups in Florida. Big, big difference between the two.

I think your kidding yourself if you don't think people of all races wouldn't be offended by what Dusty said had it got more media play.

Also I think the Cuban people in Florida should be more upset with Bud Selig who at one time approved an Orioles exhibition game in Havana that did nothing but benefit Castro. On top of that Selig sat along side Castro and Orioles owner Peter Angelous during the game. Nothing like seeing the MLB Commisioner sitting next to a murdering dictator during a nice sunny day at the ball park.


"I got this round Fidel"
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/castroangelos.jpg

cincinnati chili
04-10-2012, 06:28 AM
They hired Ozzie Guillen. What exactly did they expect?

I agree. Sooner or later, owners and executives of major league clubs who think its wise to hire quotable nutjobs to "make a splash" will realize that this is a multi-billion dollar business and it's the 21st century. Ozzie is entertaining to me from a distance but he's an anachronism. I wouldn't want him to be my boss, I wouldn't want him messing with the heads of my young players, and I wouldn't want him representing my brand.

RedsBaron
04-10-2012, 07:10 AM
I don't see why we should call for someone to lose their job over expressing their opinion. It's not like he said that all of his players and the entire Marlins organization feels the same way that he does. We've become far too sensitive in this country demanding people apologize for how they feel.

There is certainly a good argument to be made for that position, but MLB has a record of punishing people for making controversial statements, from Marge Schott's approving comments about Hitler to John Rocker's nasty comments about just about everybody.
I do not believe MLB itself needs to take any action against Guillen, but I sure can understand why Marlins management may want to do so. At the very least I would expect management to tell Ozzie to keep his love for murderers and dictators to himself.
In general I would prefer to let players and managers say what they want, and let fans boo them if they disagree with what is said. There are a few exceptions to that "policy" though. One would be if what a player/manager said was so divisive that it interfers with a team winning; arguably the comments that John Rocker made fall in that category. The other exception would be comments that harm team revenue, which Guillen's possibly could do. In Guillen's case that may be ironic, since I assume that part of the appeal he may have had to Marlins management that lead to his hiring was his expected attractiveness to Miami's large Hispanic community, much of which he has now offended.

Brutus
04-10-2012, 10:22 AM
Five game suspension for Guillen.

I've got to say, I absolutely think this is stupid that he's getting suspended. Make no mistake: his comments are silly and served very little purpose. But it's his freakin' opinion. I'm so tired of the political correctness. I don't see why he should serve a suspension for his comments, no matter how asinine. They were harmless. Stupid, but harmless.

oneupper
04-10-2012, 10:58 AM
Five game suspension for Guillen.

I've got to say, I absolutely think this is stupid that he's getting suspended. Make no mistake: his comments are silly and served very little purpose. But it's his freakin' opinion. I'm so tired of the political correctness. I don't see why he should serve a suspension for his comments, no matter how asinine. They were harmless. Stupid, but harmless.

Agreed. I have no love for Chavez or Castro, but seriously? This isn't even political correctness, it's the thought police.

Cedric
04-10-2012, 11:00 AM
Agreed. I have no love for Chavez or Castro, but seriously? This isn't even political correctness, it's the thought police.

It's a business. And a manager in Miami saying they respect Fidel Castro is beyond stupid. It's their right to can him.

CySeymour
04-10-2012, 11:04 AM
It's a business. And a manager in Miami saying they respect Fidel Castro is beyond stupid. It's their right to can him.

^^^this^^^

The Cuban community is a big part of the Marlins fanbase, and with a new ballpark, the Marlins need the place filled up. By fofending said fanbase with statements that were unnecessary by Ozzie deserved the suspension.

oregonred
04-10-2012, 11:08 AM
Five game suspension for Guillen.

I've got to say, I absolutely think this is stupid that he's getting suspended. Make no mistake: his comments are silly and served very little purpose. But it's his freakin' opinion. I'm so tired of the political correctness. I don't see why he should serve a suspension for his comments, no matter how asinine. They were harmless. Stupid, but harmless.

From your perspective yes, but Cuban Americans make up 1/3rd of Miami-Dade county, run most political offices and are funding a large part of the Marlins Stadium. The Cuban Commissioners were the votes that got the very controversial stadium funded a few years back. Almost every Cuban family down here is split and many exiles have relatives who have been executed by the Cuban govt over the past fifty years.

Freedom of speech means the US govt won't haul you in off the street, but doesn't mean you don't have consequences for your actions. This is an explosive issue in South Florida and he put the Marlins as a private enterprise -- who are all in as a Latino first franschise with the new marketing and stadium location in Little Havana -- in an untenable situation.

The context of Guillen's stupidity and comments almost defies description. This has been the only topic on all the local sports and news stations over the last 24 hours. I'm not advocating for his suspension or firing one way or the other, but trying to explain to others that don't live down here the broader context of the firestorm he created for the Marlins franchise.

oneupper
04-10-2012, 11:31 AM
It's a business. And a manager in Miami saying they respect Fidel Castro is beyond stupid. It's their right to can him.

They CAN, I agree, but SHOULD they?. Like you said, its their prerogative. They need to dole out some punishment to placate the "mobs" and Ozzie will probably accept it humbly for the same reason.

At least it's not coming from the League level. That would be more troublesome, IMO.

cumberlandreds
04-10-2012, 11:52 AM
They CAN, I agree, but SHOULD they?. Like you said, its their prerogative. They need to dole out some punishment to placate the "mobs" and Ozzie will probably accept it humbly for the same reason.

At least it's not coming from the League level. That would be more troublesome, IMO.

I had a CNN e-mail saying he had been suspended by the Marlins for five games.

Brutus
04-10-2012, 12:07 PM
From your perspective yes, but Cuban Americans make up 1/3rd of Miami-Dade county, run most political offices and are funding a large part of the Marlins Stadium. The Cuban Commissioners were the votes that got the very controversial stadium funded a few years back. Almost every Cuban family down here is split and many exiles have relatives who have been executed by the Cuban govt over the past fifty years.

Freedom of speech means the US govt won't haul you in off the street, but doesn't mean you don't have consequences for your actions. This is an explosive issue in South Florida and he put the Marlins as a private enterprise -- who are all in as a Latino first franschise with the new marketing and stadium location in Little Havana -- in an untenable situation.

The context of Guillen's stupidity and comments almost defies description. This has been the only topic on all the local sports and news stations over the last 24 hours. I'm not advocating for his suspension or firing one way or the other, but trying to explain to others that don't live down here the broader context of the firestorm he created for the Marlins franchise.

It's not about not understanding it. I understand the dynamic perfectly. But it doesn't justify suspending someone for their political opinions.

I despise... and that term doesn't even begin to describe how I feel... the KKK. But I wouldn't advocate suspending a Klansman for comments. When someone says something sensitive, they certainly open the door for judgment on their character. I just don't think it's proper to suspend them for opinions.

Suspend for actions, but opinions... to each their own.

M2
04-10-2012, 12:19 PM
A) I've got a blond-haired, blue-eyed daughter who is a pretty good soccer player and heat kicks her ass. Cold, wind or rain and she's fine, but a hot day with the sun beating down drains her far faster than others. Just saying.

B) It's ridiculous that people (not here, but out in the world at large) are freaking out this much about what Guillen said, then again this is the same political/cultural morass that brought us the Elian Gonzalez spectacle. Then again, maybe Ozzie's using baseball to pave the way for a post-Castro society where American-Cuban relations are normalized, and of course to get the gig as the manager for the Havana team when MLB expands to Cuba.

Raisor
04-10-2012, 12:20 PM
Let's say that Ozzie was a store manager at a Sherwin Williams. When he made these comments. Say, instead of to a magazine writer he said it to a local builder who has bought thousands of gallons of paint a year. Builder goes to the SW regioanl office ands says that he was offended by Guillen and unless they get rid of him he was going to take his business to Porter Paint. Now SW has an option that the Marlins don't have, they can transfer him to another store or they can fire him. Marlins have to protect the business, and if enough people demand his removal they'll have to do it.

Rojo
04-10-2012, 12:54 PM
A) I've got a blond-haired, blue-eyed daughter who is a pretty good soccer player and heat kicks her ass. Cold, wind or rain and she's fine, but a hot day with the sun beating down drains her far faster than others. Just saying.

I'm as white as they come and hate the cold. But, boy, can I dance.

RedFanAlways1966
04-10-2012, 01:03 PM
Suspend for actions, but opinions... to each their own.

Opinions are fine. So is common sense. When your opinion directly angers a nice chunk of your own fans, then you must live with the actions of letting your big mouth speak your opinion.

Do you agree with the suspension that John Rocker received in 2000? That one was definitely prejudices and different in it's nature. But it was still an opinion.

Roy Tucker
04-10-2012, 01:12 PM
This may be splitting hairs but I'm OK with the Marlins suspending him but wouldn't be if it was MLB.

If the Marlins want to suspend him because he made a stupid remark that offends a big chunk of their customer base, then I can understand it from a business standpoint. Rule 1 is the customer is always right and when in doubt, see rule #1.

But if MLB had suspended him because MLB has some vague pro-US and anti-Cuban stance, we'll that's a horse of a different color.

George Anderson
04-10-2012, 01:20 PM
This may be splitting hairs but I'm OK with the Marlins suspending him but wouldn't be if it was MLB.

If the Marlins want to suspend him because he made a stupid remark that offends a big chunk of their customer base, then I can understand it from a business standpoint. Rule 1 is the customer is always right and when in doubt, see rule #1.

But if MLB had suspended him because MLB has some vague pro-US and anti-Cuban stance, we'll that's a horse of a different color.

I agree, If the Marlins want to suspend Ozzie then go ahead but Bud Selig would like a major hypocrite for suspending him when he approved an MLB exhibition game to be played in Cuba and sat along side Castro during the game.

Tom Servo
04-10-2012, 01:35 PM
This may be splitting hairs but I'm OK with the Marlins suspending him but wouldn't be if it was MLB.

If the Marlins want to suspend him because he made a stupid remark that offends a big chunk of their customer base, then I can understand it from a business standpoint. Rule 1 is the customer is always right and when in doubt, see rule #1.

But if MLB had suspended him because MLB has some vague pro-US and anti-Cuban stance, we'll that's a horse of a different color.
Agreed.

oregonred
04-10-2012, 02:09 PM
I think we all agree this is the Marlins issue and not an MLB issue. The issue won't die anytime soon. The key beat writers for the Sun-Sentinel and Herald are Cuban Americans and many of the local sports talk hosts on the airwaves are Cuban American (LeBatard, Sedano and Armando Salguero). The overwhelming opinion is utter disbelief that Guillen could be so idiotic as to get himself and the Marlins into this situation. Guillen has lived in Miami for 12 years to he fully understood the dynamic and anyone with common sense wouldn't touch the Castro issue from a reporter with a ten foot pole. The verdict seems to be split on what the consequences should be for Guillen.

IslandRed
04-10-2012, 02:20 PM
This may be splitting hairs but I'm OK with the Marlins suspending him but wouldn't be if it was MLB.

If the Marlins want to suspend him because he made a stupid remark that offends a big chunk of their customer base, then I can understand it from a business standpoint. Rule 1 is the customer is always right and when in doubt, see rule #1.

But if MLB had suspended him because MLB has some vague pro-US and anti-Cuban stance, we'll that's a horse of a different color.

Good post.

smith288
04-10-2012, 02:47 PM
Guillen has proven to me he's neither a good manager nor an educated human being.

He's an ignorant hot head with no valve on his mouth.

I HATE political correctness but I hate dictators and enemies of freedom more. To show support for that tyrant, even in jest without even the slightest concern of those people in south florida who fight nightmares, have families split or witnessed atrocities shows me he has no business being the face of the franchise that entertains those very same people.

It's why I loathe Hollywood. Those dillholes have zero capacity to understand what that vermin of a human being has done in Cuba for 50 yrs.

Off my soapbox....

M2
04-10-2012, 03:26 PM
This may be splitting hairs but I'm OK with the Marlins suspending him but wouldn't be if it was MLB.

If the Marlins want to suspend him because he made a stupid remark that offends a big chunk of their customer base, then I can understand it from a business standpoint. Rule 1 is the customer is always right and when in doubt, see rule #1.

But if MLB had suspended him because MLB has some vague pro-US and anti-Cuban stance, we'll that's a horse of a different color.

Somebody reinstitute the rep button so I can push it.

RANDY IN INDY
04-10-2012, 03:28 PM
I agree, If the Marlins want to suspend Ozzie then go ahead but Bud Selig would like a major hypocrite for suspending him when he approved an MLB exhibition game to be played in Cuba and sat along side Castro during the game.

:beerme:

Heck, Bud will probably have Opening Day there in a year or two.:rolleyes:

Danny Serafini
04-10-2012, 05:24 PM
This may be splitting hairs but I'm OK with the Marlins suspending him but wouldn't be if it was MLB.

If the Marlins want to suspend him because he made a stupid remark that offends a big chunk of their customer base, then I can understand it from a business standpoint. Rule 1 is the customer is always right and when in doubt, see rule #1.

But if MLB had suspended him because MLB has some vague pro-US and anti-Cuban stance, we'll that's a horse of a different color.

Summed up very well.

camisadelgolf
04-11-2012, 06:20 AM
Five game suspension for Guillen.

I've got to say, I absolutely think this is stupid that he's getting suspended. Make no mistake: his comments are silly and served very little purpose. But it's his freakin' opinion. I'm so tired of the political correctness. I don't see why he should serve a suspension for his comments, no matter how asinine. They were harmless. Stupid, but harmless.
I agree 100%, but I think it's worth mentioning that if his comments were on the clock (and I think they were), it makes a huge difference. Don't get me wrong--Fidel Castro is no Adolf Hitler--but but he is very much against American morality in ways that have resulted in many people being killed, tortured, etc. If I were to say something pro-Hitler to any of my previous employers, I would expect to see some repercussions to say the least.

RedsBaron
04-11-2012, 06:55 AM
Several commentators have made the point that Marlins management should hardly be surprised by Guillen's comments. Given his history, management should have expected Guillen to make some outrageous remarks. Perhaps he will praise Joe Stalin today instead of professing man-love for Fidel Castro, maybe he will note his admiration for Charles Manson tomorrow, but Ozzie is going to say some nutty stuff (To the best of my knowledge Guillen hasn't yet praised Stalin or Manson).
The University of Arkansas cannot credibly claim to be surprised to discover that Bobby Petrino is a liar. Petrino had a well documented history of lying before he became a Razorback.
Any team over the last decade that signed Terrell Owens couldn't pretend to be surprised if Owens acted like a diva--that's who T.O. is.
The Marlins should have known what they were getting in Guillen.

camisadelgolf
04-11-2012, 07:08 AM
One other thing: sure, it's hurting Guillen's image (I guess), but he's the lightning rod for this whole fiasco, and at the end of the day, all this press is probably helping the Marlins.