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View Full Version : Thoughts on Mike Matheny



kfm
04-11-2012, 10:58 PM
Let's pretend like Matheny is our manager today. What did you all think of him resting 3 starters when they have a day off tomorrow? Bringing in a lefty to face votto in the ninth, Intentionally walking Ludwick in the ninth because he hits righty and then bringing in a righty to face Heisey who hits right handers better than lefties. I Would hate to see what this board would look like today if Dusty made these moves today and the reds lost. I think there are better fits for this team than dusty and am looking forward to getting a new manager but I think he did a very good job today working the bullpen. I know we always focus on the reds manager, but I am curious to hear what people thought of the job Matheny did today. I thought he was awful and aided the reds victory with a number of bad moves.

bigredmechanism
04-11-2012, 11:03 PM
Unless there is some crazy double switching or tons of bullpen calls, it's hard for me to ever say a manager 'did good.' Usually it's either 'they screwed up' or 'did okay.'

I didn't notice much about Matheny other than he is way younger than TLR.

kfm
04-11-2012, 11:08 PM
How do you rest freese, berkman and Beltran in one game when you are going for a sweep on the road against a rival. That would be like dusty resting votto, Bruce and Phillips when going for a sweep in st Louis. Seems bizarre to me.

Ironman92
04-11-2012, 11:22 PM
How do you rest freese, berkman and Beltran in one game when you are going for a sweep on the road against a rival. That would be like dusty resting votto, Bruce and Phillips when going for a sweep in st Louis. Seems bizarre to me.

Yeah....sitting all 3 is awful.....I'd be pissed as a Cards fan, but since I love the Reds and hate the Cards....thanks Mike.

joshua
04-11-2012, 11:24 PM
I don't think there would be much calling for his head if we were on top of the division heading into a road trip at 5-2 instead of being in fourth place and a half game back from the Astros

kfm
04-11-2012, 11:36 PM
I don't think there would be much calling for his head if we were on top of the division heading into a road trip at 5-2 instead of being in fourth place and a half game back from the Astros

The year the reds won the division there was a ton of Dusty bashing on this board. What did you think of Matheny today? I dont care what place my team is in, he was horrible today. This race could come down to one game, and this could be the game. After all in 2010 the reds faced the cardinals in the first week of the season in gabp, lost the first two and won the final game on a walk off hit by the left fielder. Just sayin

markymark69
04-11-2012, 11:49 PM
He didn't complain about the mud they rub on baseballs or cry foul when Cueto hit Furcal in the back one at-bat following his triple, that to me is a positive - perhaps the Cardinals won't be as whiny this year - even though Lance Berkman didn't get the memo - as he was mouthing at the ump on a strike call late in the game.

As far as his strategy I don't care - the Reds won and at the end of the day that's all that counts.

joshua
04-12-2012, 02:12 AM
The year the reds won the division there was a ton of Dusty bashing on this board. What did you think of Matheny today? I dont care what place my team is in, he was horrible today. This race could come down to one game, and this could be the game. After all in 2010 the reds faced the cardinals in the first week of the season in gabp, lost the first two and won the final game on a walk off hit by the left fielder. Just sayin

The difference is Matheny is a rookie manager, Dusty is not. Matheny automatically gets more leniency because of that and it's understandable that he's going to make mistake his first year as a manager...and he's 5-2 right now. The Cardinals look much more prepared to play baseball, on the mound and at the plate than the Reds do right now.

Magdal
04-12-2012, 10:09 AM
I smelled a rat, so to speak, when MM played not 3, but 4 rookies in the rubber game vs. the Brews. It is rare for a manager to have 4 players zoned in at the same time.....Furcal, Beltran, Freese and Molina are crazy hot. You don't sit a player when he's on fire.

The IBB to Luddy had to be horrifying to Card fans...when he is in one of his funks (as he is now) he is an easier out than the pitcher. MM's gaffs where discussed plenty in the GDT, so I won't rehash them any further.

My take is this: Matheney is copying some of LaRussa's most flawed practices. Since TLR invented baseball, these flaws were largely ignored. MM's will not be. He will be ran out of town if he continues this style of managing.

jhu1321
04-12-2012, 10:13 AM
Agreed, I thought he had lost his mind when he intentionally walked Ludwick in the ninth. I was at the game and everybody in our section was looking around at each other in amazement. Ludwick looked terrible in his previous AB's.

Magdal
04-12-2012, 10:37 AM
Agreed, I thought he had lost his mind when he intentionally walked Ludwick in the ninth. I was at the game and everybody in our section was looking around at each other in amazement. Ludwick looked terrible in his previous AB's.Yup...to tell you the truth, Rolen and Ludwick are both worthless right now in the clutch, but Baker must be the only person in Ohio that can't see that.

Bruce should be batting 4th, PERIOD. Stop the madness!

Ironman92
04-12-2012, 11:25 AM
Yup...to tell you the truth, Rolen and Ludwick are both worthless right now in the clutch, but Baker must be the only person in Ohio that can't see that.

Bruce should be batting 4th, PERIOD. Stop the madness!

Dusty might be the slowest ever to adjust to things like this.

Who Dey Time
04-12-2012, 11:32 AM
Yup...to tell you the truth, Rolen and Ludwick are both worthless right now in the clutch, but Baker must be the only person in Ohio that can't see that.

Bruce should be batting 4th, PERIOD. Stop the madness!

The same Bruce that struck out in that situation in the bottom of the ninth?

Ok.

swaisuc
04-12-2012, 11:41 AM
I smelled a rat, so to speak, when MM played not 3, but 4 rookies in the rubber game vs. the Brews. It is rare for a manager to have 4 players zoned in at the same time.....Furcal, Beltran, Freese and Molina are crazy hot. You don't sit a player when he's on fire.

The IBB to Luddy had to be horrifying to Card fans...when he is in one of his funks (as he is now) he is an easier out than the pitcher. MM's gaffs where discussed plenty in the GDT, so I won't rehash them any further.

My take is this: Matheney is copying some of LaRussa's most flawed practices. Since TLR invented baseball, these flaws were largely ignored. MM's will not be. He will be ran out of town if he continues this style of managing.

I don't think it was a mistake to walk Ludwick. RL would have been bunting there and I think he knew Bruce couldn't (or wouldn't even try) get a bunt down.

Grouse
04-12-2012, 11:41 AM
The sad thing is they played us even with there b Squad, and bad bullpen calls. 3 To 3 in the 9th.

10xWSChamps
04-12-2012, 12:02 PM
Lol the responses here are quite funny.

The Cardinals are 5-2, all of those game on the road no less against good teams (Marlins, Brewers, Reds) and our homer opener isn't until tomorrow! We had played 6 days in a row there (7 in 8 days)

We need to give Beltran some time off so his knee doesn't act up. Berkman isn't really an injury concern beyond the fact that he is just getting old which requires it's own extra days off and Freese has had bad luck with stupid injuries himself.

So the Cardinals go 5-1 on the road and Matheny decides to get them two days off before the home opener because obviously they are going to have the A squad on opening day and probably want to play it for that whole series since it's against the Cubs, we have the TOR coming up, and a good chance of sweeping them.

I'm shocked that no one here could see the logic in this.

Who Dey Time
04-12-2012, 12:04 PM
Lol the responses here are quite funny.

The Cardinals are 5-2, all of those game on the road no less against good teams (Marlins, Brewers, Reds) and our homer opener isn't until tomorrow! We had played 6 days in a row there (7 in 8 days)

We need to give Beltran some time off so his knee doesn't act up. Berkman isn't really an injury concern beyond the fact that he is just getting old which requires it's own extra days off and Freese has had bad luck with stupid injuries himself.

So the Cardinals go 5-1 on the road and Matheny decides to get them two days off before the home opener because obviously they are going to have the A squad on opening day and probably want to play it for that whole series since it's against the Cubs, we have the TOR coming up, and a good chance of sweeping them.

I'm shocked that no one here could see the logic in this.

Illogical nitpicking and total over-analysis over managerial moves is a common thing here. You'll get used to it then ignore it like the rest of us.

Ironman92
04-12-2012, 12:35 PM
Illogical nitpicking and total over-analysis over managerial moves is a common thing here. You'll get used to it then ignore it like the rest of us.

Sitting 3 of your top 4 hitters is always illogical unless all 3 are dinged up or you have clinched home field throughout the playoffs.

kfm
04-12-2012, 04:33 PM
Illogical nitpicking and total over-analysis over managerial moves is a common thing here. You'll get used to it then ignore it like the rest of us.

I agree with your premise, but that does not mean that every criticism of managerial moves is illogical. Let's put aside for one moment resting your 2,4 and 5 hitters on the same day when you have an off day the next day and an off day on Monday and are going for a sweep against one of your divisional rivals.In the ninth inning, how do you walk Ludwick who is hitting below .100 to get to Bruce. It seemed he walked him because of the left right matchup. Ludwick hits rhp better than lhp. Then he did the exact same thing with Heisey. He took out a lhp to bring in a rhp despite the fact Heisey is far worse against lhp. Marty even said during the broadcast right when they made the pitching change "maybe Matheny didn't get the memo that Heisey hits righties better than lefties." Lance mccalister tweeted heisey's career splits after the pitching move, so it's not just a few fans on this board nitpicking. Matheny may be a very good manager, but on this day his decisions simply ignored the stats that he had to have in front of him. Please explain what exactly is illogical about this criticism.

Rijo's Ghost
04-13-2012, 06:57 AM
Sitting 3 of your top 4 hitters is always illogical unless all 3 are dinged up or you have clinched home field throughout the playoffs.
Berkman has a strained calf and was unavailable.

Beltran has played 81 or fewer games 2 of the last 3 years and his knees are bad enough that he had to be moved to RF.

Freese has played 17, 70 and 97 games the last 3 years and has had major surgery on both ankles including reconstructive surgery on one. He's a 29 year old on 40 year old legs.

Early in the year, day game after night game with an off day ahead seems like a good time to give oft injured players an extra day.

Rijo's Ghost
04-13-2012, 07:09 AM
I agree with your premise, but that does not mean that every criticism of managerial moves is illogical. Let's put aside for one moment resting your 2,4 and 5 hitters on the same day when you have an off day the next day and an off day on Monday and are going for a sweep against one of your divisional rivals.In the ninth inning, how do you walk Ludwick who is hitting below .100 to get to Bruce. It seemed he walked him because of the left right matchup. Ludwick hits rhp better than lhp. Then he did the exact same thing with Heisey. He took out a lhp to bring in a rhp despite the fact Heisey is far worse against lhp. Marty even said during the broadcast right when they made the pitching change "maybe Matheny didn't get the memo that Heisey hits righties better than lefties." Lance mccalister tweeted heisey's career splits after the pitching move, so it's not just a few fans on this board nitpicking. Matheny may be a very good manager, but on this day his decisions simply ignored the stats that he had to have in front of him. Please explain what exactly is illogical about this criticism.
Heisey doesn't have nearly enough PA (less than one full seasons worth for a starter) for his reverse platoon to mean anything and hit LHP better than RHP throughout his time in the minors.

I would have seen what Ludwick was doing before making a decision. If he's bunting, let him because he's not good at it and might get himself out without advancing the runner. If he gets it down, put Bruce and Heisey on to pitch to Valdez, but I understand not wanting the winning run on 3rd base.

If Ludwick isn't bunting, I'd probably have done what Matheny did.

dubc47834
04-13-2012, 08:51 AM
Yup...to tell you the truth, Rolen and Ludwick are both worthless right now in the clutch, but Baker must be the only person in Ohio that can't see that.

Bruce should be batting 4th, PERIOD. Stop the madness!

Well, was Matheny managing from St. Louis? Because he didn't see it either, hence the IBB.

dubc47834
04-13-2012, 08:54 AM
Sitting 3 of your top 4 hitters is always illogical unless all 3 are dinged up or you have clinched home field throughout the playoffs.

It must be illogical to think about the end of the season now, than say.......the end of the season!!!! The logic behind some peoples thoughts are crazy. If you have some old guys, why not rest them!!!

Magdal
04-13-2012, 09:54 AM
It must be illogical to think about the end of the season now, than say.......the end of the season!!!! The logic behind some peoples thoughts are crazy. If you have some old guys, why not rest them!!!Old guys? What are they playing? Ice hockey? Football? It's baseball in nice cool weather. And that bull of resting players early so they will be "fresh" in Sept. is beyond imbesillic.

MM has never managed at any professional level and is a classic example of good 'ol boy hiring.

dubc47834
04-13-2012, 10:36 AM
Old guys? What are they playing? Ice hockey? Football? It's baseball in nice cool weather. And that bull of resting players early so they will be "fresh" in Sept. is beyond imbesillic.

MM has never managed at any professional level and is a classic example of good 'ol boy hiring.

Yes, old guys!!!! how is it beyond imbesillic to rest players early to try to keep them "fresh" or injury free.....please explain your logic!!!!

So Joe Torre, Don Mattingly, Lou Piniella, Cito Gaston, & Joe Girardi just to name a few, all guys who had no minor league experience, must have been good 'ol boy hirings also and can't/couldn't manage.

cw0802
04-14-2012, 12:25 PM
Your thoughts on these quotes after the 9-5 drubbing from the Cubs yesterday...

Reporter: "Do you think the weather had anything to do with Wainwrights delivery?"

Matheny: "No. We're not even going to go there. We're never going to make that excuse. He didn't have his good stuff today and he knows that."

Later in post game interviews with Wainwiright...

Reporter: "Would you say the weather had an impact on you today?"

Waino: "No. I'm not going there. I didn't have it today."

dubc47834
04-14-2012, 01:55 PM
Your thoughts on these quotes after the 9-5 drubbing from the Cubs yesterday...

Reporter: "Do you think the weather had anything to do with Wainwrights delivery?"

Matheny: "No. We're not even going to go there. We're never going to make that excuse. He didn't have his good stuff today and he knows that."

Later in post game interviews with Wainwiright...

Reporter: "Would you say the weather had an impact on you today?"

Waino: "No. I'm not going there. I didn't have it today."

I think it's what should have been said, if he is healthy enough to be on the mound, then weather shouldn't be an excuse. Even if it was an excuse, I don't think you say that to the press, just keep it in house.

Todd Gack
04-14-2012, 02:30 PM
My observations are that he's 5-3 after 8 games as STL Cardinals manager. I'm not sure you can give a positive or negative critique of this guy yet after 8 games.

Magdal
04-15-2012, 11:03 AM
My observations are that he's 5-3 after 8 games as STL Cardinals manager. I'm not sure you can give a positive or negative critique of this guy yet after 8 games.At what number game is it OK to start grading him?

Like a student, he's being graded after every paper he turns in, and will be given a final grade when the semester is over.

Right now he's flirting with an "F"

Todd Gack
04-15-2012, 11:16 AM
At what number game is it OK to start grading him?

Like a student, he's being graded after every paper he turns in, and will be given a final grade when the semester is over.

Right now he's flirting with an "F"

That's probably because he's an STL manager and most Reds fans have blind hatred for anything in STL. I think the All-Star break is a good evaluation period.

Swampturkey
04-15-2012, 05:22 PM
Right now he's flirting with an "F"

An 'F'??? For a guy who's team is 6 outs away from improving to 7-3??

LOL!!!! Funniest thing I've read in this thread! So what are you giving Dusty then? An 'H'?

The FIRST time he used that line up with the rookies, they won. Second time, they lost. Using it again today, mainly due to injuries to both Berkman and Freese, BUT Berkman's fill-in has his first ML homer.

These guys are ALL major leaguers. If you're not going to play them, why are they up here at all? He's keeping the vets fresh and the rookies fresh. Good plan.

One last point...he's the Cardinals manager, not the Reds. Why do you even care?

kfm
04-18-2012, 12:25 AM
This guy makes some very interesting moves to say the least. It seems like we are only interested in trashing dusty, but if Matheny were here and people are consistent he would get destroyed by this fan base.

cw0802
04-18-2012, 12:33 AM
Check this out...

http://www.checkswing.com/profiles/blogs/mike-matheny-letter-to-parents