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View Full Version : Alfredo Simon's Wild Pitch



jwmann2
04-12-2012, 08:58 PM
Surprised no one is venting on here yet. I thought of Todd Frazier when they scored at the end. How many games will we lose this season by one run?

Ironman92
04-12-2012, 09:23 PM
What available relief pitchers were left? Bray? Who else?

For my money....Simon is the last relief guy.....he should be last in of those who are available.

KYRedLeg
04-12-2012, 09:28 PM
What available relief pitchers were left? Bray? Who else?

For my money....Simon is the last relief guy.....he should be last in of those who are available.

Marshall.

Oh, but this wasn't a "Save" situation...

R_Webb18
04-12-2012, 09:42 PM
Marshall.

Oh, but this wasn't a "Save" situation...

yea but still should of been marshall. why do mangers waste 3 hrs to let some guy throw a tryout

DocRed
04-12-2012, 09:42 PM
This guy shouldn't be on a roster period.

R_Webb18
04-12-2012, 09:47 PM
to be fair he was kinda unlucky until last batter but thats on him

texasdave
04-12-2012, 09:55 PM
to be fair he was kinda unlucky until last batter but thats on him

He hit the first batter. That's on him too. He hit the batter that scored the winning run when he threw the ball away. I'd say a lot of it was on him.

RedCanuck
04-12-2012, 10:33 PM
He hit the first batter. That's on him too. He hit the batter that scored the winning run when he threw the ball away. I'd say a lot of it was on him.

Come on Dave, now your just nit picking......

R_Webb18
04-12-2012, 11:21 PM
He hit the first batter. That's on him too. He hit the batter that scored the winning run when he threw the ball away. I'd say a lot of it was on him.

yea that was kinda my point tho. it was 1st pitch and it was like a curve or something.

DGullett35
04-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Simon does strike alot of guys out but his control has been suspect. He gave up the dinger in his first outing and now this wild pitch that cost the Reds a win. I'm with you guys in that Frazier should be on the team but Frazier should have taken Harris' spot and not Simons'. We will need 12 pitchers at some point in the season. Sooner rather than later but with Maset on the shelf we really have no option other than Francis and the Reds obviously want him starting and not pitching out of the pen. I agree Simon should have not been in the game at that point but i put that on Dusty. I just wonder whos going down if Masset ever gets healthy?? That is going to be interesting because I find it hard to believe the Reds will just let Simon go. that would be a waste in my opinion. Almost like a 2 or 3 week borrow.

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 01:35 AM
I saw Simon hit 97 miles per hour. I'm willing to let guys who can throw 97 miles per hour have a few chances before i give up on them.

Just a bunch of the usual second guessing.

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 01:38 AM
I'm with you guys in that Frazier should be on the team .

Frazier 2 for 21 against Triple A pitchers . Sounds like he'd fit right in.

EMAW
04-13-2012, 01:39 AM
Wrong thread

Jefferson24
04-13-2012, 01:39 AM
There is a reason other teams give guys away, they can't all be Brandon Phillips. Cut him loose and move on.

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 01:43 AM
There is a reason other teams give guys away, they can't all be Brandon Phillips. Cut him loose and move on.

I said the same think when the Yankees gave Lance Berkman away at the end of 2010. I remember when the Reds gave Trevor Hoffman away. How'd that work out?

Assembly Hall
04-13-2012, 06:26 AM
I said the same think when the Yankees gave Lance Berkman away at the end of 2010. I remember when the Reds gave Trevor Hoffman away. How'd that work out?

I do believe Hoffman was selected in an expansion draft.

WrightRed
04-13-2012, 09:08 AM
Tough outing for Simon yesterday. If there's no one in Lousville better than him we're in trouble.

RedsBrick
04-13-2012, 09:52 AM
I said the same think when the Yankees gave Lance Berkman away at the end of 2010. I remember when the Reds gave Trevor Hoffman away. How'd that work out?

So, does this mean that Alfred Simon = Trevor Hoffman?

SidneySlicker
04-13-2012, 10:38 AM
I saw Simon hit 97 miles per hour. I'm willing to let guys who can throw 97 miles per hour have a few chances before i give up on them.

Just a bunch of the usual second guessing.

There is a reason Baltimore DFA'd him and that he's with his 6th mlb team. (I think that is what the broadcasters said) That being said they've kept Masset around for the last several years with the same type of problems. It's a hard line to tread. Guys who can throw 97 with some of the nasty offspeed stuff he's thrown, don't grow on trees, but you can't be losing games on wild pitches and hit batters. Make him the last option in the pen and give him a little time with Brian Price. If he can't clean it up find someone else. Not sure why he would though. 6 other teams saw the potential, but couldn't fix him. Why would Cincy be any different?

Stray
04-13-2012, 11:12 AM
There's always gonna be that guy in the bullpen that you hope to almost never see. Carlos Fisher was pretty shaky at times last year, but you didn't lose all faith when he came in. I dunno anything about Simon and I was sure we were losing in his inning. Like someone else said, there has to be someone reliable in Louisville. Sure Simon has good stuff, but I'm pretty sure he has no idea where it's going most of the time.

I know there were a lotta complaints about his use last night...I don't really have any probs with it. I'm more worried about the part where it was April 12th and we were already playing a game where 2 bullpen guys were unavailable. If our starters can't go deeper into games our pen will be outta gas by Independence Day.

texasdave
04-13-2012, 12:18 PM
x

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 01:22 PM
Simon has only pitched for Baltimore and now the Reds in the majors. The last two years hes been pitching in the toughest division in baseball against the Yankees and the Red Sox. The guy has a live arm. After yesterdays outing I know its not popular to defend him, but I'd rather give him a few more chances than to panic and bring up Carlos Fisher for more of the same.

texasdave
04-13-2012, 01:27 PM
With the injuries to Madson and Masset, Walt was backed into a corner so to speak. So picking up Alfredo Simon wasn't the worst idea in the world. I would, however, treat him just like a Rule 5 draftee and not pitch him in a game-deciding situation unless that was a last resort. The Reds' heart-of-the-order was coming up in the 11th and I would have done whatever was necessary in getting through the 10th to give those bats another crack at scoring some runs.

Bob Sheed
04-13-2012, 01:37 PM
It's always easy to second-guess. But I would think if you have Bray, Marshall and Simon left in the pen, Simon would be the last one you use.

But Dusty has more MLB wins than me, so what do I know...

Tough loss yesterday.

Jefferson24
04-13-2012, 01:40 PM
I said the same think when the Yankees gave Lance Berkman away at the end of 2010. I remember when the Reds gave Trevor Hoffman away. How'd that work out?

Did I say or imply that teams never get rid of players that turn out to be good at a later date?

All teams let players go that they wish they had back at some point. I doubt Simon will ever fall into that category.

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 01:49 PM
All teams let players go that they wish they had back at some point. I doubt Simon will ever fall into that category.

Maybe he will, maybe he won't. It wouldn't be the first mistake the Orioles organization has ever made.

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 01:53 PM
The Reds' heart-of-the-order was coming up in the 11th and I would have done whatever was necessary in getting through the 10th to give those bats another crack at scoring some runs.

After all, they had been so productive in the first 9 innings. :) And Lidge wasn't around anymore.

Based on recent history, I suspect the Reds wouldn't have scored for another 8 or 9 innings.
Bakers move was not that big a deal. There are far more legitimate things to complain about.

bmwreds31
04-13-2012, 02:01 PM
Well even though he messed up. Im not hating on him so much to say he doesnt deserve a roster spot. I think he has his uses. And Dusty just put him in a situation he shouldnt have been in. Bray was ready and bray should have pitched.

Who knows what dusty was thinking on that last LH batter. :thumbdown:

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 02:09 PM
Well even though he messed up. Im not hating on him so much to say he doesnt deserve a roster spot. I think he has his uses. And Dusty just put him in a situation he shouldnt have been in. Bray was ready and bray should have pitched.

Who knows what dusty was thinking on that last LH batter. :thumbdown:

I suspect, based on what I've sen in the last few weeks, that Bray wouldn't have made it through the inning either. I mean we're not talking about Mariano Rivera here.

I suspect Dusty's gut told him that Simon was throwing good and had a shot at getting the lefty and then giving him another inning or two. As opposed to using Bray for one hitter and then having only Marshall left for the rest of the game, which had all the earmarks of going another 5 or 6 innings.

It wasn't the worst decision in the world. It just didn't work.

texasdave
04-13-2012, 02:15 PM
I will concede that if the offense continues scoring 3 runs a game and the starters continue going six or less innings per start, everything else is a moot point.

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 03:30 PM
I will concede that if the offense continues scoring 3 runs a game and the starters continue going six or less innings per start, everything else is a moot point.

:thumbup:


1. Inconsistent starting pitching

2. Mediocre middle relief pitching (Except last two days)

3. Inability to hit right handed pitching (except Brad Lidge)

OGB
04-13-2012, 03:59 PM
I said the same think when the Yankees gave Lance Berkman away at the end of 2010. I remember when the Reds gave Trevor Hoffman away. How'd that work out?

Did you just support your point by naming 2 players from the last twenty plus years of baseball?

JJ Hoover should have gotten the last bullpen spot. Simon has lost us a game and Willie Harris is 0-9 and looked utterly pathetic at the plate. I oy hope Harris and Simon are gone before too long.

Mutaman
04-13-2012, 05:10 PM
Did you just support your point by naming 2 players from the last twenty plus years of baseball?.

Seriously, what do you want me to do, spend the rest of the afternoon coming up with 100 ballplayers who were let go by one club and found new life with somebody else?

Are you really arguing that players should never be claimed or picked up because "There is a reason other teams give guys away"?

By that logic, how can you argue that Hoover should be on the team since the Braves gave up him?

"A National League executive told The Baltimore Sun he expected Simon to be claimed off waivers. "You definitely take a chance on an arm like that," he told the paper."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7758276/reports-baltimore-orioles-place-alfredo-simon-waivers

OGB
04-13-2012, 07:25 PM
Seriously, what do you want me to do, spend the rest of the afternoon coming up with 100 ballplayers who were let go by one club and found new life with somebody else?

Are you really arguing that players should never be claimed or picked up because "There is a reason other teams give guys away"?

By that logic, how can you argue that Hoover should be on the team since the Braves gave up him?

"A National League executive told The Baltimore Sun he expected Simon to be claimed off waivers. "You definitely take a chance on an arm like that," he told the paper."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7758276/reports-baltimore-orioles-place-alfredo-simon-waivers

JJ Hoover wasn't given away, he was acquired. If you can't understand the distinct difference in those scenarios, there is no point in carrying on this debate. I have zero interest in taking a chance on a guy who "has great stuff", but had a long history of not being able to find the plate. A profound lack of control has been a hallmark of this pitching staff for far too long.
there are more prudent options than Simon in house. In addition, the fact that they don't have the ability to send him down means that they won't get rid of him until he has cost the team way too many games and Walt comes to his senses/there is enough uproar from the fans.