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RedsfaninMT
04-15-2012, 11:33 AM
Will be interesting if today's lineup clicks. Heisey in CF, Ludwick in LF. BP back in the lineup. If they start hitting, Stubbs could find reduced playing time. He simply has to make more contact than he has, like the bunt he did on Opening Day, then nothing since.

Or not.

Red Raindog
04-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Will be interesting if today's lineup clicks. Heisey in CF, Ludwick in LF. BP back in the lineup. If they start hitting, Stubbs could find reduced playing time. He simply has to make more contact than he has, like the bunt he did on Opening Day, then nothing since.

Or not.

If I had the power -- he would try it somewhere else.

Ironman92
04-15-2012, 11:42 AM
He plays everyday regardless of anything.

Part of Dusty's greatness....his opportunities for "fast" people.....and no one is faster than Drew....hence no one will play more.

Stray
04-15-2012, 11:43 AM
Heisey hasn't exactly did anything when he's gotten starts either. I think he has one hit as a starter this year...I could be wrong though. I like the idea though, you may as well platoon those two in CF until one of them starts to do something. Both of them are a strikeout waiting to happen. Ludwick hasn't been good either, but I hope we play him in LF and hope that he starts to hit.

Red Buckeye
04-15-2012, 11:50 AM
He plays everyday regardless of anything.

Part of Dusty's greatness....his opportunities for "fast" people.....and no one is faster than Drew....hence no one will play more.

Yeah the Reds routinely get "Dusty'd" thanks to their stubborn manager.

Sir Luke
04-16-2012, 02:22 PM
Heisey > Stubbs
Heisey isn't as good on defense but he doesn't strike out 7 times a game either.

Who Dey Time
04-16-2012, 02:31 PM
Heisey > Stubbs
Heisey isn't as good on defense but he doesn't strike out 7 times a game either.

The numbers do not support your claim....

Career Numbers:

Heisey - .252 AVG; .315 OBP; .456 SLG; 25.3% K ratio (141 K's/557 PA's)

Stubbs - .249 AVG; .322 OBP; .400 SLG; 29% K ratio (434 K's/1498 PA's)

Obvuiously, Stubbs has a larger data size to go off of but those numbers are very similar and I don't think there is any question that Stubbs has more speed and is a better defensive outfielder.

I get the Stubbs bashing to a point....his at bats can be aggrevating at times. But, before you send him to the bench, understand what you are putting out there in his place....basically the same guy with less speed.

TheBigLebowski
04-16-2012, 02:39 PM
Heisey > Stubbs
Heisey isn't as good on defense but he doesn't strike out 7 times a game either.

Stubbs gets four at-bats in an average game yet manages to fit in six strikeouts. And he is FAST.

brm7675
04-16-2012, 02:44 PM
What I can't figure out is why there is no change in his approach at the plate. This tell's me the Reds coaching staff is okay with Stubbs free swinging because there doesn't seem to be any change.

justincredible
04-16-2012, 03:18 PM
Hate on Stubbs all you want but if he's in center on that double that sailed over Heisey's head he makes that catch and the Nats might not score in that inning (would've been the 2nd out). He also probably makes a better throw on the play at the plate in the 7th. Heisey is a great 4th outfielder and his defense is fine in LF but I do not like watching him in CF.

bmwreds31
04-16-2012, 03:25 PM
heisey in center is not the answer over stubbs

malcontent
04-16-2012, 03:26 PM
What I can't figure out is why there is no change in his approach at the plate. This tell's me the Reds coaching staff is okay with Stubbs free swinging because there doesn't seem to be any change.
Nothing changes because Stubbs is in denial and Baker refuses to confront him.

“Especially with the off day coming, it gives you some time to collect yourself and kind of bounce back in a couple of days,” Stubbs said. “I think a lot of times when you hit a little bit of a stretch when you’re struggling, you start to try (to) make corrections on things that weren’t really wrong to begin with."

I'm curious what the "things that weren’t really wrong to begin with" are.

RedsBrick
04-16-2012, 03:38 PM
Right now I don't think Stubbs should bat higher than 7th. Truth be told I wish they'd bat him behind the pitcher and let him hit 9th.

Hitting 9th would reduce his ABs yet allow him to jump start the top of the order and potentially still be able to utilize his speed.

Having said that I realize Baker would never think outside of the box like that.

texasdave
04-16-2012, 04:12 PM
Nothing changes because Stubbs is in denial and Baker refuses to confront him.“Especially with the off day coming, it gives you some time to collect yourself and kind of bounce back in a couple of days,” Stubbs said. “I think a lot of times when you hit a little bit of a stretch when you’re struggling, you start to try (to) make corrections on things that weren’t really wrong to begin with."I'm curious what the "things that weren’t really wrong to begin with" are.

Stubbs can always fall back on his ability to do stand-up comedy. "A little bit of a stretch"? I would hate to see a full-time slump from Drew then.

In his last 503 PA in 2011 his line was .230/.304/.328/.632.
In his first 38 PA in 2012 his line is .167/.211/.167/.377.

Combined, the last 541 times he has stepped into the box as a professional baseball player his numbers are, roughly, .225/.297/.317/.614.
That would include 8 homers and 25 RBI. Oh, yes, and 174 stubb outs.

541 PA. Is that a slump or is that who Drew Stubbs is? I am not sure. But what I do know is that is a heckuva lot more than "a little bit of a stretch'.

Anyone else find it curious that Stubbs was trying to use ST at-bats to defend himself? I believe I heard roughly one million times on this board that what happens in ST matters not one whit. Pitchers are throwing arrow-straight fastballs to build up their arm strength and get their work in. Now that these same pitchers are throwing pitches in earnest with a little wrinkle in them old Drew is lost up there. Anyone that throws Stubbs a fastball is clearly not paying attention.

swaisuc
04-16-2012, 04:17 PM
2 things are for certain. Stubbs' hitting has been terrible for most of his professional career. Everyone else is an enourmous dropoff defensively in CF.

How you weigh those things against each other decides whether Drew starts.

texasdave
04-16-2012, 04:23 PM
Nothing changes because Stubbs is in denial and Baker refuses to confront him.“Especially with the off day coming, it gives you some time to collect yourself and kind of bounce back in a couple of days,” Stubbs said. “I think a lot of times when you hit a little bit of a stretch when you’re struggling, you start to try (to) make corrections on things that weren’t really wrong to begin with."I'm curious what the "things that weren’t really wrong to begin with" are.

Stubbs can always fall back on his ability to do stand-up comedy. "A little bit of a stretch"? I would hate to see a full-time slump from Drew then.

In his last 503 PA in 2011 his line was .230/.304/.328/.632.
In his first 38 PA in 2012 his line is .167/.211/.167/.377.

Combined, the last 541 times he has stepped into the box as a professional baseball player his numbers are, roughly, .225/.297/.317/.614.
That would include 8 homers and 25 RBI. Oh, yes, and 174 stubb outs.

541 PA. Is that a slump or is that who Drew Stubbs is? I am not sure. But what I do know is that is a heckuva lot more than "a little bit of a stretch'.

malcontent
04-16-2012, 04:26 PM
Stubbs can always fall back on his ability to do stand-up comedy. "A little bit of a stretch"? I would hate to see a full-time slump from Drew then.

In his last 503 PA in 2011 his line was .230/.304/.328/.632.
In his first 38 PA in 2012 his line is .167/.211/.167/.377.

Combined, the last 541 times he has stepped into the box as a professional baseball player his numbers are, roughly, .225/.297/.317/.614.
That would include 8 homers and 25 RBI. Oh, yes, and 174 stubb outs.

541 PA. Is that a slump or is that who Drew Stubbs is? I am not sure. But what I do know is that is a heckuva lot more than "a little bit of a stretch'.
Thanks for the numbers, texasdave.

Maybe they will wake a few defenders up.

They are are just incredibly bad, considerably worse than even I imagined.

I mean....these are T-Virus-like numbers.

If the Stubbs-for-Brantley rumor is legit, and the Indians are asking for a little more, Walt needs to add it. If Walt is asking for more, he needs to forget it and sign on the dotted line.

I fear that Brantley will heat up and the opportunity will be lost.

malcontent
04-16-2012, 04:34 PM
2 things are for certain. Stubbs' hitting has been terrible for most of his professional career. Everyone else is an enourmous dropoff defensively in CF.

How you weigh those things against each other decides whether Drew starts.
No amount of defense can make up for that bat.

And Stubbs is not a great defensive CF, IMO.

texasdave
04-16-2012, 05:34 PM
No amount of defense can make up for that bat.

And Stubbs is not a great defensive CF, IMO.

More numbers from Fangraphs.

Here is a link to all the qualified NL centerfielders from 2010 through 2012. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=nl&qual=y&type=1&season=2012&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&players=0

1) Drew Stubbs is a slightly below average centerfielder per the fielding metrics that they use.
2) Drew Stubbs does, however, have the highest-rated arm of all these centerfielders.

First impressions are important and when Drew Stubbs made his debut in late 2009 he put up very impressive fielding numbers. Since the start of the 2010 season this, however, has not been the case. I kinda sorta liken it to Edwin Encarnacion. His first partial season with the Reds he put up very good fielding numbers. After that he was a "range monster" according to a lot of posters. A "range monster" that didn't make a whole lot of plays after that first partial season. But that is what the fans saw first. Edwin excelling. Same with Stubbs. And first impressions tend to stick around awhile. The fact remains that since becoming the regular at the start of the 2010 season, Drew Stubbs is not playing at a Gold Glove level.

mu4103
04-16-2012, 06:09 PM
Forget Stubbs, Ludwick is only batting .192 give Heisey the ABs in LF and you have one of the best fielding OFs in baseball and it will finally give the Reds a chance to see what he can do everyday rather than see what a retread can do.

DocRed
04-16-2012, 09:36 PM
I would sit Stubbs another 2-3 games to get it into his head that his is job is not guaranteed. But that is wishful thinking as Duhhsty is our leader, I fully expect him to be starting tomorrow.

Ironman92
04-16-2012, 10:25 PM
More numbers from Fangraphs.

Here is a link to all the qualified NL centerfielders from 2010 through 2012. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=nl&qual=y&type=1&season=2012&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&players=0

1) Drew Stubbs is a slightly below average centerfielder per the fielding metrics that they use.
2) Drew Stubbs does, however, have the highest-rated arm of all these centerfielders.

First impressions are important and when Drew Stubbs made his debut in late 2009 he put up very impressive fielding numbers. Since the start of the 2010 season this, however, has not been the case. I kinda sorta liken it to Edwin Encarnacion. His first partial season with the Reds he put up very good fielding numbers. After that he was a "range monster" according to a lot of posters. A "range monster" that didn't make a whole lot of plays after that first partial season. But that is what the fans saw first. Edwin excelling. Same with Stubbs. And first impressions tend to stick around awhile. The fact remains that since becoming the regular at the start of the 2010 season, Drew Stubbs is not playing at a Gold Glove level.

I'll assume Rick Ankiel isn't on that list....his arm in CF is not for comparison. He made a throw tonight from 300 feet and drilled the target at home without a movement.....Jordan Shaeffer was going to tag at 3rd.....

40YrRedsFan
04-16-2012, 10:49 PM
Stubbs is an important piece of our offense. We need to get him straightened out. He is the only speed threat we have. In 2010, he was one of the key reasons we won the division. Last year he struggled, and we struggled as a team. Maybe he needs to go to Louisville to get going again. Whatever happens, we need some speed at the top of the lineup so the big boys can get RBI's.

Ironman92
04-16-2012, 10:53 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20672793&c_id=was&partnerId=aw-7437482702750431320-1047

joshua
04-16-2012, 11:36 PM
http://i.imgur.com/mMhRB.jpg

Sir Luke
04-17-2012, 11:29 AM
The numbers do not support your claim....

Career Numbers:

Heisey - .252 AVG; .315 OBP; .456 SLG; 25.3% K ratio (141 K's/557 PA's)

Stubbs - .249 AVG; .322 OBP; .400 SLG; 29% K ratio (434 K's/1498 PA's)

Obvuiously, Stubbs has a larger data size to go off of but those numbers are very similar and I don't think there is any question that Stubbs has more speed and is a better defensive outfielder.

I get the Stubbs bashing to a point....his at bats can be aggrevating at times. But, before you send him to the bench, understand what you are putting out there in his place....basically the same guy with less speed.

I actually am a Stubbs fan. But it is not completely fair to compare career statistics. What's more important is their stats this year. Yes, their strike out ratios are similar in the past but you must also realize a bulk of Heisey's at bats are from fresh off the bench, where as Stubbs has seen play the whole game. It's not disputable that you can catch up to a major league fastball or any other pitch when you've been on your feet and running down fly balls all game opposed to standing up from the bench and taking a few cuts in the on deck circle. I am as big of a fan of speed an increadible defense as their is out there but I am more concerned with our bats at the moment.

Sir Luke
04-17-2012, 11:35 AM
Hate on Stubbs all you want but if he's in center on that double that sailed over Heisey's head he makes that catch and the Nats might not score in that inning (would've been the 2nd out). He also probably makes a better throw on the play at the plate in the 7th. Heisey is a great 4th outfielder and his defense is fine in LF but I do not like watching him in CF.

True, but offense is the concern as of right now. His defense is fantastic but there is no good place in the line-up for all his K's.
I want Heisey to have his chance. His bat is consistently better and his defense is solid. Not to mention he has tremendous heart.

Sir Luke
04-17-2012, 11:39 AM
Stubbs is an important piece of our offense. We need to get him straightened out. He is the only speed threat we have. In 2010, he was one of the key reasons we won the division. Last year he struggled, and we struggled as a team. Maybe he needs to go to Louisville to get going again. Whatever happens, we need some speed at the top of the lineup so the big boys can get RBI's.

Stubbs himself has said he is not a top of the line-up hitter. The six hole is best for him IMO because it is a place for a free swingers but if we have Bruce in the 5 spot it renders him much less useful because they can pitch around him and strike out Stubbs.

Stray
04-17-2012, 11:40 AM
Stubbs isn't as bad as he's played this year, a lot of our guys aren't including Rolen, Ludwick, and Hanigan. Right now he's by far our best defensive CF option though, regardless of what stats say. I've seen Drew casually run down balls that Heisey doesn't even get to. And when it comes to his arm, teams think twice about testing Bruce or Stubbs.

This would be a much easier decision of Heisey was more productive as a starter. Until one of them decides to start playing a lot better I'd just split time in CF between the two...and I'd have Stubbs starting when we have a fly ball pitcher on the mound like Arroyo.

Sir Luke
04-17-2012, 11:42 AM
Forget Stubbs, Ludwick is only batting .192 give Heisey the ABs in LF and you have one of the best fielding OFs in baseball and it will finally give the Reds a chance to see what he can do everyday rather than see what a retread can do.

Take out Ludwick and who do you put between Votto and Bruce to bat clean up?
Don't say Stubbs.

texasdave
04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
Take out Ludwick and who do you put between Votto and Bruce to bat clean up?
Don't say Stubbs.

You bat Votto and Bruce back-to-back. That was easy. Next question?

texasdave
04-17-2012, 11:52 AM
The stats say Heisey is the better fielder and Stubbs has the better arm. I know. Stats stink.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=100&type=1&season=2011&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=18&rost=0&age=0&players=0

Stray
04-17-2012, 11:59 AM
Yeah yeah I don't get much into sabermetrics haha. Just from watching em play I've seen a lot of balls that have played Heisey in LF and CF, Stubbs can usually run down most flyballs. And you don't see him misplay a ball all that often. Even if they say otherwise, I still believe Stubbs is clearly our best defensive option out there, but he's so bad offensively that if Heisey can start to do something when he does start, he should be able to earn the majority of the CF starts.

swaisuc
04-17-2012, 03:57 PM
Yeah yeah I don't get much into sabermetrics haha. Just from watching em play I've seen a lot of balls that have played Heisey in LF and CF, Stubbs can usually run down most flyballs. And you don't see him misplay a ball all that often. Even if they say otherwise, I still believe Stubbs is clearly our best defensive option out there, but he's so bad offensively that if Heisey can start to do something when he does start, he should be able to earn the majority of the CF starts.

You are not alone. I find the stats posted here surprising and interesting, but I'm not convinced.

Falcon7
04-17-2012, 05:52 PM
I'm pretty sure that Stubbs plays a shallower CF than Heisey, it's a stretch to say "Stubbs makes that catch".
Stubbs is horrible at coming in on shallow pop fly's he lets many balls fall in, that should not, IMO. And when's the last time you saw him lay-out to catch a fly ball in front of him? Answer, NEVER.

Ironman92
04-17-2012, 10:55 PM
I'm pretty sure that Stubbs plays a shallower CF than Heisey, it's a stretch to say "Stubbs makes that catch".
Stubbs is horrible at coming in on shallow pop fly's he lets many balls fall in, that should not, IMO. And when's the last time you saw him lay-out to catch a fly ball in front of him? Answer, NEVER.

Yeah....I've never seen anything like it before. What OF doesn't not only love to make the diving catches coming in but also won't even do it.....not too mention he's incredibly fast...It's like he has the makeup and skill set of Mo Vaughn when he should be Devon White out there.

His arm is very good and he is very good at the balls in the gaps but coming in at any angle and going straight back he is below average....not saying Heisey is better as he's had 1/50th the attempts.

justincredible
04-17-2012, 11:12 PM
He laid out in an attempt to catch a ball in front of him today. He didn't catch it but the attempt was there.

Falcon7
04-18-2012, 04:06 PM
He laid out in an attempt to catch a ball in front of him today. He didn't catch it but the attempt was there.

He sure did! Just to spite me... ;)

texasdave
04-19-2012, 05:43 PM
Stubbs just said, "Up your nose with a rubber hose, Sundeck!!".

Jamz
04-20-2012, 09:33 AM
People are giving up on Stubbs way too early. Give him half the season before making judgments.

malcontent
04-20-2012, 12:25 PM
People are giving up on Stubbs way too early. Give him half the season before making judgments.
But he's had these same issues forever.

I remember pre-draft scouting reports warning that he wouldn't hit enough to merit a high selection.

Add to the equation the total imbalance of the lineup....making it extremely vulnerable to even mediocre RHP....and it seems to me that if you can trade him for a young, fast, high-contact, LH leadoff CF, you should do it.

bmwreds31
04-20-2012, 12:43 PM
i dont know about posting up for anybody that was bashing on him to start to eat crow after one game where he gets 3 hits.

Its ONE GAME fellas. He could easily go 0-4 with 3 SO's today.

Just saying in general.

Count me on the boat of wait till all-star break and then decide on stubbs.

Jamz
04-20-2012, 01:39 PM
But he's had these same issues forever.

I remember pre-draft scouting reports warning that he wouldn't hit enough to merit a high selection.

Add to the equation the total imbalance of the lineup....making it extremely vulnerable to even mediocre RHP....and it seems to me that if you can trade him for a young, fast, high-contact, LH leadoff CF, you should do it.

If you're referring to Brantley Stubbs gets on base more than he does. You don't have to be high contact to be useful. Even though Stubbs Ks a lot, he also gets walked a bunch. Combine that with more power and better speed and it would just be a bad switch. Get another LH batter somewhere else (3B maybe?) or wait for Billy Hamilton to come up. Giving up on Stubbs right now with the tools he has would be foolish given that he probably wouldn't get much return.

justincredible
04-20-2012, 03:15 PM
i dont know about posting up for anybody that was bashing on him to start to eat crow after one game where he gets 3 hits.

Its ONE GAME fellas. He could easily go 0-4 with 3 SO's today.

Just saying in general.

Count me on the boat of wait till all-star break and then decide on stubbs.

He's on a five game hitting streak (.412). That's FIVE GAMES fella. He only has 4 Ks in those five games, too.

justincredible
04-20-2012, 03:24 PM
Oops, six game hitting streak now. Which matches his longest hit streak from last season.

Ironman92
04-20-2012, 03:27 PM
Oops, six game hitting streak now. Which matches his longest hit streak from last season.

That's presently great....if Stubbs is hitting the Reds will win.

A six game hitting streak as a season's long is not even worth mentioning.

justincredible
04-20-2012, 03:29 PM
That's presently great....if Stubbs is hitting the Reds will win.

A six game hitting streak as a season's long is not even worth mentioning.

They mentioned it on the broadcast so I mentioned it here. My bad.

Ironman92
04-20-2012, 03:58 PM
They mentioned it on the broadcast so I mentioned it here. My bad.

I got ya. 6 game better than what could be.....the "streak" part gets me. He's hit in 6 consecutive games...doesn't bother me but "streak" does. I need double digits for a hitting streak. I also need counseling.

Cherokee
04-20-2012, 04:07 PM
With all due, six games is a streak in my book. It's good to see him making better contact and even is carying himself with a bit more confidence.

justincredible
04-20-2012, 04:35 PM
Stubbs does it again. A 2-out, 2-run 2-bagger.

Jamz
04-20-2012, 04:35 PM
6 games and it's really giving him some confidence. Some of the hits have been really nice, too.

Maldez
04-20-2012, 04:44 PM
Stubbs does it again. A 2-out, 2-run 2-bagger.

Great to see Stubbs smackin' the ball around like an all-star the last couple games. If Cincy is going to pull itself out of its funk, it's going to need Drew Stubbs playing up to his very high potential.

justincredible
04-20-2012, 06:00 PM
I got ya. 6 game better than what could be.....the "streak" part gets me. He's hit in 6 consecutive games...doesn't bother me but "streak" does. I need double digits for a hitting streak. I also need counseling.

So the Reds would need to win 10 games in a row before they are considered to be on a winning streak? I don't think so, Tim.

justincredible
04-20-2012, 06:00 PM
Oh, yeah. Stubbs has another hit, rbi, and steal.

Ironman92
04-20-2012, 10:24 PM
So the Reds would need to win 10 games in a row before they are considered to be on a winning streak? I don't think so, Tim.

Hitting streak....I said hitting streak. Hitting streak takes me to DiMaggio it just does....I'm not saying anyone is wrong I'm just saying it's a peeve of mine.

Winning streak for games won? Start those at 1!

Just me. No more Home Improvement references pls.

R_Webb18
04-20-2012, 10:40 PM
so now ppl must think stubbs is great? well not me yet. but nice run atm

DGullett35
04-21-2012, 02:02 AM
Hopefully he can gain some momentum from his play the last few days. You can tell hes more confident and that will help. I hope bruce decides that going opposite field is what he needs to think about every at bat too. I said in the beginning of the year that Stubbs and Heisey/Ludwick would be key for this offense this year, and Ludwick hasn't been too bad, and hopefully Stubbs can keep this up. I mean he isn't going to break Joe D's consecutive hit record but he should be able to bat .265-.275 with 20HR and 35-40SB..That would be a good year for him. When Stubbs starts hitting you know the offensive team slump has to be over.

joshua
04-21-2012, 02:05 AM
That spot right in front of Votto in the lineup is a guaranteed slump buster. I think Stubbs should bat second every single time he's in the lineup. Cozart, Stubbs, Votto, Phillips, Bruce. That could be very effective. So could Phillips, Stubbs, Votto, Cozart, Bruce. All of them at their full potential could be devastating for opposing clubs. And that's with me forgetting all about Mesoraco. In two or three years this group could be absolutely brutal.

Tied for second place now. 4 games back from St. Louis, who is weakening every day with injuries.

DGullett35
04-21-2012, 04:13 AM
How would Josh Willingham look in that 4 spot right now?? Guy is raking and I know its still only april but if he hits that good between Mauer and Morneau(sp?) think of what he could do between Votto and Bruce.

I do like hitting Stubbs in the 2 hole, but I just don't see Cozart as a leadoff hitter. It does seem like anyone in the 2 hole is going to hit though.

Ironman92
04-21-2012, 12:26 PM
How would Josh Willingham look in that 4 spot right now?? Guy is raking and I know its still only april but if he hits that good between Mauer and Morneau(sp?) think of what he could do between Votto and Bruce.

I do like hitting Stubbs in the 2 hole, but I just don't see Cozart as a leadoff hitter. It does seem like anyone in the 2 hole is going to hit though.

Uh....Votto is great and Bruce is good to very good but Morneau has an MVP and Mauer has won multiple batting titles....when healthy they are quite the duo.

Jamz
04-22-2012, 11:25 PM
Uh....Votto is great and Bruce is good to very good but Morneau has an MVP and Mauer has won multiple batting titles....when healthy they are quite the duo.

Neither is as good a hitter as Votto though. There's a reason he's the most walked man in baseball.

Assembly Hall
04-23-2012, 08:21 AM
Neither is as good a hitter as Votto though. There's a reason he's the most walked man in baseball.

The reason is they pitch around him to take their chances with the next guy.

Jamz
04-23-2012, 10:02 AM
The reason is they pitch around him to take their chances with the next guy.

Is that because Votto is a very dangerous hitter?

Jones1
04-23-2012, 10:34 AM
n

bigredmechanism
04-23-2012, 01:03 PM
Is that because Votto is a very dangerous hitter?

Has a lot to do with it, but it also has a lot to do with who hits behind him. I think Miguel Cabrera is as dangerous or more so of a hitter than Votto, but with Prince behind him, he won't walk as much.

Jamz
04-23-2012, 05:04 PM
Has a lot to do with it, but it also has a lot to do with who hits behind him. I think Miguel Cabrera is as dangerous or more so of a hitter than Votto, but with Prince behind him, he won't walk as much.

This is true, but there are very few hitters in baseball that are really as good as Votto. Cabrera is one of them.

Jamz
04-25-2012, 09:21 AM
Loving this upward trend that Stubbs has been enjoying lately. This team is starting to click and that's bad news for the rest of the league.

If Stubbs can put everything together he will be a perfect 2 hole hitter, and having BP behind Votto as opposed to Rolen is helping a lot.

However, as Stubbs' biggest supporter I'm loving this!

justincredible
04-25-2012, 11:08 AM
Yeah, but he struck out once last night. :)

Stray
04-25-2012, 11:18 AM
He's definitely been working to change some stuff which I know was a question from reds fans. He has a shorter swing, he's been a better hunter, and he's hitting a lot of ground balls. At the start of the year most were at someone, but its still a good approach for him. He will still have his ks but I like his changes so far.

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bigredmechanism
04-25-2012, 11:59 AM
Loving this upward trend that Stubbs has been enjoying lately. This team is starting to click and that's bad news for the rest of the league.

If Stubbs can put everything together he will be a perfect 2 hole hitter, and having BP behind Votto as opposed to Rolen is helping a lot.

However, as Stubbs' biggest supporter I'm loving this!

If it takes Votto protecting Stubbs for us to win games, I would keep Drew in the 2 hole until it doesn't work. He looks much more confident out there than last week, and he has been hitting it hard.

Jamz
04-25-2012, 12:25 PM
If it takes Votto protecting Stubbs for us to win games, I would keep Drew in the 2 hole until it doesn't work. He looks much more confident out there than last week, and he has been hitting it hard.

Yes sir. When Stubbs can get on base consistently he usually finds a way to the home plate and that means good things for us. On top of this it allows BP, who is our second best hitter, to bat behind Votto and make it harder to just pitch around him. Now BP has been out for a couple games so we haven't seen the fruits of this year -- but I think that this could be a staple of our line-up for years to come:

1 - ???? (Billy Hamilton?)
2 - Drew Stubbs
3 - Joey Votto
4 - Brandon Phillips
5 - Jay Bruce

Very dangerous when they are on.

joshua
04-25-2012, 12:35 PM
I think part of Bruce's struggles is that there's no one behind him. I'd much rather have Ludwick or Mes behind Bruce than Rolen.

Stubbs is killing it in the two hole...hitting in front of Votto might be what cures him...then again I think Stephen Hawking could hit .275 in front of Joey at this point.

Jamz
04-25-2012, 12:44 PM
Yeah, and just to drive the point home I've made a topic about his expoits in the 2 hole.